Dude, I am bored by most classical music.. and I've got a pretty musical mind. This song puts me on the edge of my seat, it's actually emotional.. it's not formulated like some sort of Italian pastry, it's raw and hateful.
i got no idea what just happen...but i seen that piece played live by my 2 yr old cousin... she called it "mary had a little lamb" but as each piece is unique and as it was a disturbing piece it had alot genocide build into it...well done!
i got no idea what just happen...but i seen that piece played live by my 2 yr old cousin... she called it "mary had a little lamb" but as each piece is unique and as it was a disturbing piece it had alot genocide build into it...well done!
@asemanasa a large variety of objects is used for the preparation: screws, nails, springs, string, matches, rubber, you name it. several years ago i show margaret leng tan performing this and other music by john cage in athens. at one point she had to alter the preparation and she invited the audience on stage to watch how it is done. luckily not everyone did, although it wasn't a large audience, so i got very close to watch. it was very interesting.
The title "In the Name of the Holocaust" is a quote from James Joyce—not a reference to the genocide of the Jews which was occurring concurrently when the piece was composed in 1942.
I see John Cage has become a polarizing subject in this video's comments. It seems that will inevitably happen when someone hears his music.
Whats weird is that his prepared piano pieces, in particular this piece, are the ones I derive a more traditional musical satisfaction from because they do have recognizable elements of classical music (i.e. dynamics, pitch, recurring motives). Though it is atonal, there are moments where normal triads or tall chords appear.
@CarlosIsDown well, it's definitely tonal. i think it's just more obscure and has percussive elements in it which gives it an atonal feel (though even percussion instruments have tonality)
@CarlosIsDown Well, i never claimed to have perfect pitch. However when you watch the video she hits very few sharps or flats. And While i doubt it is in one standard key, i do feel comfortable saying that it does sound like is has as tonal axis. Berger attempted to describe it as "organized in terms of tone centers but not tonally functional" because you can't analyze the music using Schenkerian analysis but it is also not a 12-tone/serial piece.
@lakesidemourning...this piece was written at a time when most of the world had yet to learn about the genocide that had been transpiring. (wilsonjonescopyholde is right...1942?) the song was oddly prophetic.
i actually think it's quite a beautiful piece. =) not one's usual definition of beauty, but i think it's exquisite in its own jarring way...which is the underlying purpose of any john cage piece, really. he was a dadaist at heart and wanted to question what one thinks of as beautiful.
Fuck this. Fuck all of you who encourage this nonsense. Bach would kick his ass. Mozart and Beethoven and Tchaikovsky and all the rest would kick his ass for this and then laugh at all of you and weep for the future.
Blab blab blab. Speak for dead composers you fucking moron. I'd expect that some of those composers would love this music. They weren't brain dead retards like you are, opinionated to the gills and calling other peoples art, "nonsense".
Holy shit he prepared a piano and had some woman bang on it! Anyone who dislikes this is SUCH an idiot. I feel SO SMART and special being one of the elite few who can recognize his subtle genius. NO ONE else could have written something like this, and if they did and someone told me it was John Cage, I could TOTALLY tell it wasn't John Cage. This arguement is pretentious and outdated. So sick of it...heard it all before.
While I don't usually like John Cage's pieces, his contributions to extended piano techniques and music in general are appreciated. You probably hear music that John Cage inspired all the time without batting an eye. Besides, this "woman" Margaret Leng Tan, is a classically trained musician with a doctorate in musical arts from Juliard. She probably knows more about prepared pianos than Cage did.
I did get your point, but I made one, and apparently you didn't understand mine. I think John Cage might enjoy being compared with a child making noise. I certainly would. Whether I understand your points or not has no bearing on my enjoyment of this music. Also, apparently you have listened to John Cage as well. Or perhaps you paused this video with out hearing?
when someone asks "what do you listen to?" they don't expect you to mention every piece of music you've ever stumbled into.
I really don't understand how anyone would like to be compared to a child making noise on a piano. Maybe you can explain this to me.
Also i'm not against what Cage does. I actually thing some of his work is very interesting. I'm against calling it music. and i think that's the general objection.
I don't see why you made that statement really. I think you made it because you didn't realize my point- you are no different from anyone who listens to John Cage, you have heard him and so, if listening to John Cage makes a person slow in thinking then perhaps you are also afflicted with this mysterious illness. Why is a child a great thing to be? Because children are musically pure, they have not yet grown up to defining music and confining it until its boring, sedimentary and typical.
whoa! one of us is definitely really slow. and i swear i'm having a hard time deciding who it is. When i say "i listen to prokofiev" i mean that i'm a fan of his and i like his music. and although i have in fact heard Cage's music, i wouldn't call myself a fan of any of his work. Saying "i listen to Cage' would give the impression that i do that regularly.
and btw putting a pet at the piano would have the same effect as putting a musically illiterate child
any series of pitches can be considered music, it's how you perceive it
music that is created to make music obviously has more emotion as it's intentionnal and whoever touch a piano can't play without any emotion, a kid that hits one and only note can say a lot about his emotions by how he plays it, if he makes very hard and slow hits he may be angry, very hard and fast he may be excited, for example, when you grow up, you show different aspects of the music to show emotions more efficiently
and i'll repeat what i said again about Cage's creations. You're comparing his art with music. The 3 or 4 Cage videos i've seen of his "pieces" have very little to do with music.
Maybe they haven't come up with a word to describe them yet. But if it doesn't look or taste like an apple then there's a really good chance that it might be something else.
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i mean i couldnt stop ROFLing she had me i crying till my lungs hurt in aguny i mean the needs to get a life and get pissed and get drunk and jump off a bridge and slit her wrists if she survive
Truly it doesn't matter if it sounds like anxiety to some of you, as there may be millions of different interpretations of the piece, especially when it's a contemporary piece, not guided by the tendencies of tonal music that direct the interpretation much more directly. The fact is that the composer composes the name of the piece as well to direct in some way the interpretation he intended of the piece.
Sure you can play this in the background of a holocaust film and it would work. But when I listen to this unbiased by the title and without any provided imagery, the holocaust doesn't come to mind.
I am sure John Cage would be happy to see that both of us come to his music with different interpretations - he did put holocaust in the title - it expresses a holocaust nonetheless
It's really rather surprising how powerful this type of music can be. I'm sure everyone who has criticized this piece is not a musician, and thus doesn't appreciate it. I myself don't know much about John Cage, or infact his music, but after hearing a few songs, I can really see what he has achieved; and I would that he has definitely surpassed the boundaries.
I remember a talk Ned Rorem gave in the late 1950s IIRC. Someone asked him how he reacted to critics. While he did not pay much attention to them, he said he preferred his music to be liked, but it was OK if people hated it. Either way, he had communicated, and that was what he was after. What he did not like was when people were bored because in that case he felt he had failed to communicate.
Thank you - that is a very honest answer. I would thus deem it quite an accurate portrayal of the holocaust (at least I would hope you would hold the holocaust in the same regard). This music is loathsome, disgusting - what a true representation of what a travesty the holocaust was. The music assaults you in the best of ways - violates your sensibilities as any piece about something as horrible as the holocaust should.
I do not imagine it hurts the piano much. Possibly it might need tuning after that, but that's about it.
I think preparing a piano is more likely to harm the strings. Putting screws and bolts between the strings could result in slight nicking of them, and if one touches the strings with the fingers, it may leave a deposit of grease and salt on them that may be harmless, but I would not want to guarantee it.
You think Margaret Leng Tan is not a very good keyboard player do you? She was the first woman to get a Ph.D. from Juilliard. She worked closely with John Cage for about 11 years until the day before he died. He though so much of her he wrote her a composition to play on from 1 to 4 pianos. I have heard her performance on three.
She also is, I believe, the person ever to perform on a toy piano at Carnegie Hall.
National Socialism represents the largest failure of a political ideology in the history of the world. And that's saying a lot when you put it next to capitalism.
In either case, government seems to revolve around business. In national socialism you have the "state-run business" where in capitalism you wind up with something like the United States today - the "business-run state."
I was surprised to find that you are 38 years old after reading the comment, but then again, age doesn't reflect experience. Was this your first time hearing this piece of music - what other performances of it have you heard to make this sort of value-laden statement? Or, are you really criticizing its composer? In either case, what is the purpose?
What an intense soundscape performed with avant garde pinache! The violence emanating from the columns of sound which, in turn, was generated by the swift but odd contortions of the pianist, is a beautiful marriage of sight and sound.
Is this like when an artist throws a tomatoe at a canvas and it sells for millions of dollars to eccentric people who want to show that they "get it"?
but you already acknowledged it as a piece of music right there in your comment . . . haha . . . how 'bout we don't call it either we just call it music and leave it at that . . . that's what Cage would have wanted . . .
Coming back to this, I still hear utter dreck. I can't believe some listeners would rather listen to what I would describe as "organized noise" rather than the countless other American classical music composers that have been ignored just because they eschew this kind of approach to music.
Honestly I would rather listen to 4:33 than endure pseudo-philosophical works like this. At least it would cure insomnia. :)
Hmmm...interesting statement...Yes, if I was to compare this piece to a song by a great, like Copland or Bernstein, I would consider it bad. This "sound" is not meant to be compared, it is meant to be listened to and to be thought about. There is music that allows the listener to just sit back and let the sound envelop them, then there is this...an expression through sound that requires deep thought. Yes, it's monstrous and loud and violent, but there is more.
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There is no thought here; there is the Emperor's Clothes Syndrome. This kind of music is exactly a dead end; nothing interesting or new could come from this. Something similar to this is museum of modern art in New York city. Pure pretentiousness.
Music is a form of expression, and Mr Cage did just that. You don't have to like what he says, but I don't think you can call it pretentious. He could have easily wrote a short sad tonal piece in minor, but it would have been fake. I'm sorry his way of expressing isn't aurally satisfying for you. As far as the dead end, something can only decline if it stands still, so how can something this new to us possibly be a dead end? Don't bitch about music you don't understand, that's pretentious.
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Very easy to understand this piece, far from the complexities Mahler, Beethoven, and Bach have done. You get to the point of calling noise music and a block of cement sculpture; you reward mediocrity and no imagination with praise from those who want to fit in.
And a half cadence is? Why does the idea of creativity have to only apply to tonality. Tonality is a fixed system, it has barriers that once they are passed, it is now atonality. Atonality is looked down upon because of it breaks these barriers. Why must you deny creativity when it is starting you in the face? You don't have to like it, but don't deny it its right to be organized sound, which is what Cage called music? Don't deny a human his right to think and express what he wants.
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This is not creative. If you think it is, fine, but the fact is composers like John Cage have associated modern classical music with pieces that require no input from the listener and little discernable talent.
I am not denying anyone the right to create art; I criticize those who defend art like this and think that no one else can criticize. Atonality has its merits, but by the time you get to this...complete nonsense. No one actually likes John Cage; those who do...I pity their friends.
I think sometimes, you just "get" certain types of music, and sometimes you don't. There will always be some music for everybody they don't appreciate, personally I used to listen to delta blues, and not hear anything other than REALLY bad guitar playing and singing, but now I hear it and think woah. Have a look at watch?v=rOyj4ciJk34 (John Lee Hooker- boom boom). I used to hear that and think, what? That's just noise, but now I hear it and just hear awesomeness...
The piece isn't even all that noisy. Sure, it's simple but plenty of music is simple. What I'm sure this piece isn't is easy. I would think it far more difficult to have a piece like this sound so perfectly organized than it is here than say something by Chopin. Even with the unorganized nature of such techniques Ms. Tan makes the cluster chords sound very organized and tight and together. I actually found that I enjoyed the piece the noisier it got. I thought it had more unity towards like end.
I'd actually like to suggest that you look at Cage opposite of the way puremanliness is suggesting. If it is so enraging that Cage is considered creative than just think of him in terms of some garden variety pop act. Regardless of whether it's creative or not the rythmic qualities here and the expansion of timbre that is on display are both tangibly enjoyable. Furthermore, the player Margaret Leng Tan has done a great job.
Other composers aren't ignored, they are just a different type of music. Cage wasn't a late romantic, or neoclassical, or folk, pop, rock, anything! He was a composer of organized, philosophical sound. Again, he can't be compared, for he is purely individual. I can't think of many composers that have really become well-known through this type of music, hell, the majority of people don't listen to cage either. Most people listen to tonal works, so what you said doesn't really make sense. Good try
One of the things that i understood of the 20th century's music is the fact that "a sound is just a sound". So there's no need to have soul or things like that.
Then you can agree or disagree, i can't (and i suppose nobody can) tell you what's righ. Art is subjective, and so is beauty.
P.S. i hadn't made my choice yet.
and i apologize for my not-that-perfect english :)
Art IS subjective. But sound without soul is not music. I just don't buy into John Cage especially for writing this music about Holocaust because he attempted to express Holocaust in sound that absolutely has no soul.
I think the difference between sound and music is sound is like reading headline news and music is more like reading Cormac McCarthy's novels.
Many people have tried to define the term "music" or "art", John Cage said, that when somebody produces sounds in order to listen to it, it's music.
I think this piece is more musical than most of his other pieces, but, of course, it's very depressive and monotonous, but that is what you need for describing the holocaust.
actually, Cage would even say himself that this piece was not intended to describe or even reflect on the holocaust- the title was a pun on "Holy Ghost"...but it is certainly not a soulless noise...there is thought and feeling in it- just not ones that most people feel comfortable with.
Another piece by John Cage that fails to leave an impression on me, except for failure. Heck, if he were to name this "Childhood Nightmares," it will make more sense than "In the Name of the Holocaust." And there are actually people out there who try to defend this dreck. I would rather listen to Gorecki's symphony no. 3 and messiaen's quartet for the end of time than this.
Music is art, you know this? As long as it gave you a response, like anger, it has done it's job as art. It doesn't need to have simple rhythm played during the full song to be considered music.
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This is really a lame reply. Using your "logic" anything can be music if it evokes a response - a dog growling as it bites your leg, a car honking as it cuts in front, a child crying in a store, a telemarketer, etc . I'm open to all kinds of music but the operative word is "music". At least with this kind of music, you never have to worry about a virtuoso performance or need to practice 8 hours a day.
I think Cage intends the listener to start down this exact line of thought. It may not be entertaining(I certainly don't like much of it) but it's the most direct way to provoke people into figuring out (or arguing about) where 'Music' ends and 'noise' begins.
"If you develop an ear for sounds that are musical it is like developing an ego. You begin to refuse sounds that are not musical and that way cut yourself off from a good deal of experience."
smb you appear to have missed the entire point of modernist thought and composition. Cage's whole idea as springler has pointed out was experimentation with sound. He argued, along with many others, including Hanslick nearly 100 years before that music was consituted of the organisation of sounds and nothing more. He experimented with this idea and therefore with the sounds which could be used. So yes, to him, in the right context a dog growling as it bites your leg could be considered music
and funny you mention car horns honking, as Cage used to take his students out into time square and make them shut their eyes and listen for an hour, after which he would ask if they heard music. Don't forget, alot of the rhythm of the blues and other musics is derrived from the rhythm of the trains which played a key part in most peoples lives at the time. Its as much a philosophical point as an aural one and you've clearly failed to grasp the entire purpose behind modernist experimentation
on top of which, as Springler again pointed out, its aesthetics, what is music? Theorists like Adorno would argue it is exactly this kind of 'music', which forces you to think and question, which is necessary in an age where pop music rules the masses and the most people are concerned with is being able to dance to a song or hum its melody line.
Further, it could be argued the negative experience alvin has to the music reflects the true state of humankind, and the quicker more people experience it the quicker they will see the overwhelmingly negative aspects of modern society, rather than hiding behind a fascade of pop music "i love you"s please sir, try to understand what youre talking about before you become so opinionated in public and embarrass yourself
lol, i don't know well the cage's carreer but his music is influenced by the zen budism, and here the intention is not exactly to make noise but to break patterns.... music is at a constant evolution so why don't changing a bit the concept of music, avoiding all the knonw rythms and discovering something else... and that mf is a really difficult job. and people like you make it more difficult
Listening to this is so touching. It's like you realize John Cage is a fucking autistic moron. Truly inspires one to tears.
AssassinTheHasson 3 months ago
it's like bombs going off towards the end
ChrisTheContagion 8 months ago
プリペアドピアノのテクニックはすごくカッコいいね！(-.-)b
6shige9 9 months ago
Wow John Cage totally plagiarized me. I totally wrote this when I was one and a half years old when I banged around on my piano
HerdULeikMudkipz 10 months ago 3
The use of sustain/or lack there of, is phenomenal
Whoisjulien 11 months ago
Dude, I am bored by most classical music.. and I've got a pretty musical mind. This song puts me on the edge of my seat, it's actually emotional.. it's not formulated like some sort of Italian pastry, it's raw and hateful.
NightOfTha44 1 year ago 5
@NightOfTha44 if you want raw and hateful, listen to death metal lol
WelcomeToZomboCom 10 months ago
@WelcomeToZomboCom .... what a generic recommendation BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
NightOfTha44 9 months ago
:O mad bastard!
Dave2bu 1 year ago
That was absolutely beautiful. She plays that with such energy. Gotta Dig it.
truths121 1 year ago
Music would be rolling in his grave.
Warwickcain 1 year ago
@Warwickcain
So music is a he? And music is dead? And this is not music?
Some lofty claims.
loudisthevale 11 months ago
@loudisthevale =3
TheRiteOfWinter 10 months ago
I wonder if those epic hair flips are in the score :)
Roodski 1 year ago 3
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i got no idea what just happen...but i seen that piece played live by my 2 yr old cousin... she called it "mary had a little lamb" but as each piece is unique and as it was a disturbing piece it had alot genocide build into it...well done!
frestylerz 1 year ago
i got no idea what just happen...but i seen that piece played live by my 2 yr old cousin... she called it "mary had a little lamb" but as each piece is unique and as it was a disturbing piece it had alot genocide build into it...well done!
frestylerz 1 year ago
WOW!
palpitamento 1 year ago
where's the rest of the piece?
WelcomeToZomboCom 1 year ago
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Amazing performance. Thank you Margaret Leng Tan.
pjkoponen 1 year ago
Amazing performance. Thank you Margaret Leng Tan.
pjkoponen 1 year ago 2
how has the piano been prepared? screws between the hammers? anyone know?
asemanasa 1 year ago
@asemanasa a large variety of objects is used for the preparation: screws, nails, springs, string, matches, rubber, you name it. several years ago i show margaret leng tan performing this and other music by john cage in athens. at one point she had to alter the preparation and she invited the audience on stage to watch how it is done. luckily not everyone did, although it wasn't a large audience, so i got very close to watch. it was very interesting.
theo9952 1 year ago
thankyou very much xx
asemanasa 1 year ago
@asemanasa you're welcome. any time.
theo9952 1 year ago
@asemanasa yeah screws and other things between the strings. they muff the vibration and make that clangy sound..
Roodski 1 year ago
lol
Gargantupimp 1 year ago
The title "In the Name of the Holocaust" is a quote from James Joyce—not a reference to the genocide of the Jews which was occurring concurrently when the piece was composed in 1942.
wilsonjonescopyholde 1 year ago
It actually kind of "rocks" if you know what I mean. Fantastic stuff.
planetnews 1 year ago
also the best part 1:20
that is just so jarring; it's almost like being physically shaken.
seascoundrel 1 year ago
I see John Cage has become a polarizing subject in this video's comments. It seems that will inevitably happen when someone hears his music.
Whats weird is that his prepared piano pieces, in particular this piece, are the ones I derive a more traditional musical satisfaction from because they do have recognizable elements of classical music (i.e. dynamics, pitch, recurring motives). Though it is atonal, there are moments where normal triads or tall chords appear.
Just a thought...
seascoundrel 1 year ago
I don't know if it's atonal. Maybe non or not tonal.
CarlosIsDown 1 year ago
@CarlosIsDown well, it's definitely tonal. i think it's just more obscure and has percussive elements in it which gives it an atonal feel (though even percussion instruments have tonality)
nvbaileys 1 year ago
@nvbaileys Oh. What key is it in?
CarlosIsDown 1 year ago
@CarlosIsDown Well, i never claimed to have perfect pitch. However when you watch the video she hits very few sharps or flats. And While i doubt it is in one standard key, i do feel comfortable saying that it does sound like is has as tonal axis. Berger attempted to describe it as "organized in terms of tone centers but not tonally functional" because you can't analyze the music using Schenkerian analysis but it is also not a 12-tone/serial piece.
nvbaileys 1 year ago
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This is shit
Rattywotin 2 years ago
A lot of people don't realize that this peice is not supposed to be pretty...it's about a freaking genocide. Genocide is not pretty.
It's perfect potrayal of what the subject of the peice is; so the peice is perfection, I think.
lakesidemourning 2 years ago 55
@lakesidemourning...this piece was written at a time when most of the world had yet to learn about the genocide that had been transpiring. (wilsonjonescopyholde is right...1942?) the song was oddly prophetic.
i actually think it's quite a beautiful piece. =) not one's usual definition of beauty, but i think it's exquisite in its own jarring way...which is the underlying purpose of any john cage piece, really. he was a dadaist at heart and wanted to question what one thinks of as beautiful.
indefinablenothing 1 year ago
@indefinablenothing Ahh. I wasn't aware of that first bit. Thanks for the info. :)
lakesidemourning 1 year ago
@lakesidemourning "Freaking Genocide"--Love that.
vanes9066 1 year ago
Hey, it doesn't matter whether or not you enjoyed this or not. You can or can't, it's up to you.
But if other people enjoy this, you have no reason to berate them for this kind of music.
brain1012 2 years ago 4
my mom wouldn't let me "prepare" my piano =(
Cbdr17 2 years ago 57
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Cbdr17 2 years ago
Yeah, if the Holocaust were a song, this is what it would sound like. Brilliant, when you think about it.
ernestalba 2 years ago 5
Please!
MaxPayne72 2 years ago
@ernestalba i totally agree, i love the begginning especially
S3bz3r0 2 years ago
Don't fear art
Statestreetsherpa 2 years ago 5
Video about religion, politics and avant-garde art = instant flamewar
leirbag23 2 years ago 7
lol yes
semibrieve 2 years ago
Fuck this. Fuck all of you who encourage this nonsense. Bach would kick his ass. Mozart and Beethoven and Tchaikovsky and all the rest would kick his ass for this and then laugh at all of you and weep for the future.
HammerOvThor 2 years ago
Blab blab blab. Speak for dead composers you fucking moron. I'd expect that some of those composers would love this music. They weren't brain dead retards like you are, opinionated to the gills and calling other peoples art, "nonsense".
deadinapark 2 years ago
Holy shit he prepared a piano and had some woman bang on it! Anyone who dislikes this is SUCH an idiot. I feel SO SMART and special being one of the elite few who can recognize his subtle genius. NO ONE else could have written something like this, and if they did and someone told me it was John Cage, I could TOTALLY tell it wasn't John Cage. This arguement is pretentious and outdated. So sick of it...heard it all before.
HammerOvThor 2 years ago
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deadinapark 2 years ago
@deadinapark Don't knock girls mon.
vanes9066 1 year ago
While I don't usually like John Cage's pieces, his contributions to extended piano techniques and music in general are appreciated. You probably hear music that John Cage inspired all the time without batting an eye. Besides, this "woman" Margaret Leng Tan, is a classically trained musician with a doctorate in musical arts from Juliard. She probably knows more about prepared pianos than Cage did.
watch?v=eEwYtUREUVk&feature=related
philnoll 2 years ago
Agreed. I have nothing against the pianist besides the fact that she decided to perform this piece.
HammerOvThor 2 years ago
@HammerOvThor Mozart was a he man..
vanes9066 1 year ago
beautiful piece.
MINDOVERFOOL 2 years ago 2
my 3 year old sister wrote a very similar piece a couple of days ago. I guess we can call her a prodigy now!
fionasapple 2 years ago
Yeah? Why dont you get your 3 year old sister to transcribe how she played that? Also what were the settings for the prepared piano she used?
deadinapark 2 years ago
oh Deadinapark! you just didn't get the point of the comment :( It's understandable though. You do listen to John Cage after all...
fionasapple 2 years ago
I did get your point, but I made one, and apparently you didn't understand mine. I think John Cage might enjoy being compared with a child making noise. I certainly would. Whether I understand your points or not has no bearing on my enjoyment of this music. Also, apparently you have listened to John Cage as well. Or perhaps you paused this video with out hearing?
deadinapark 2 years ago
when someone asks "what do you listen to?" they don't expect you to mention every piece of music you've ever stumbled into.
I really don't understand how anyone would like to be compared to a child making noise on a piano. Maybe you can explain this to me.
Also i'm not against what Cage does. I actually thing some of his work is very interesting. I'm against calling it music. and i think that's the general objection.
fionasapple 2 years ago
I don't see why you made that statement really. I think you made it because you didn't realize my point- you are no different from anyone who listens to John Cage, you have heard him and so, if listening to John Cage makes a person slow in thinking then perhaps you are also afflicted with this mysterious illness. Why is a child a great thing to be? Because children are musically pure, they have not yet grown up to defining music and confining it until its boring, sedimentary and typical.
deadinapark 2 years ago
whoa! one of us is definitely really slow. and i swear i'm having a hard time deciding who it is. When i say "i listen to prokofiev" i mean that i'm a fan of his and i like his music. and although i have in fact heard Cage's music, i wouldn't call myself a fan of any of his work. Saying "i listen to Cage' would give the impression that i do that regularly.
and btw putting a pet at the piano would have the same effect as putting a musically illiterate child
fionasapple 2 years ago
The same effect? Not at all, because a child is not a monkey.
"Cage's music" isn't that rather contradictory of you?
I'm totally aware of the non-literal meaning of "I listen to ___ " However, my subtlety was lost on you.
Comparing art with music? There is no comparison. Music is art, and for all I care, art is music. Sonic art.
What people consider music, variates to such incredible extremes that your point about "looking or tasting like an apple" holds no ground.
deadinapark 2 years ago
any series of pitches can be considered music, it's how you perceive it
music that is created to make music obviously has more emotion as it's intentionnal and whoever touch a piano can't play without any emotion, a kid that hits one and only note can say a lot about his emotions by how he plays it, if he makes very hard and slow hits he may be angry, very hard and fast he may be excited, for example, when you grow up, you show different aspects of the music to show emotions more efficiently
S3bz3r0 2 years ago
and i'll repeat what i said again about Cage's creations. You're comparing his art with music. The 3 or 4 Cage videos i've seen of his "pieces" have very little to do with music.
Maybe they haven't come up with a word to describe them yet. But if it doesn't look or taste like an apple then there's a really good chance that it might be something else.
fionasapple 2 years ago
God, I've been practicing for months and I can FINALLY play this.
lucky7monkey 2 years ago
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i mean i couldnt stop ROFLing she had me i crying till my lungs hurt in aguny i mean the needs to get a life and get pissed and get drunk and jump off a bridge and slit her wrists if she survive
carawheezy 2 years ago
what a doosh bag
i mean what the hell is this
carawheezy 2 years ago
Truly it doesn't matter if it sounds like anxiety to some of you, as there may be millions of different interpretations of the piece, especially when it's a contemporary piece, not guided by the tendencies of tonal music that direct the interpretation much more directly. The fact is that the composer composes the name of the piece as well to direct in some way the interpretation he intended of the piece.
Masterful6O 2 years ago
what's particularly interesting is that it was written already in 1942!
imiessio 2 years ago
Woah. That was beautiful...
Colfaxdruggie 2 years ago
qué crudo.
XnDro91 2 years ago
wow! muy bueno!!!
fuerzatranquila 2 years ago
good
infoviciao 2 years ago
He's finally on the calender for GLBT history month.
Arodinme6 2 years ago
well he wanted the ANXIOUS feel of the holocaust
poptarts47 2 years ago
I'd suggest: "A multiple-vehicle fender bender on a busy-traffic street".
EvenEvenOdd 2 years ago
Sure you can play this in the background of a holocaust film and it would work. But when I listen to this unbiased by the title and without any provided imagery, the holocaust doesn't come to mind.
I would have called this one, Anxiety.
samuelmichaud 2 years ago
Yep, I agree. Anxiety would be an infinitely more fitting title.
mmmjustwatchme 2 years ago
Well it's a start.
samuelmichaud 2 years ago
This piece was written before the world was exposed to the horrors of Nazi atrocities.
MusicaRicercata 2 years ago
it really really sounds like the holocaust.. I'm starting to appreciate John Cage's music more and more now..
kytang90 2 years ago 2
sounds like thunder and despair.
a3886 2 years ago 3
I am sure John Cage would be happy to see that both of us come to his music with different interpretations - he did put holocaust in the title - it expresses a holocaust nonetheless
darwinsfinchesface 2 years ago 2
Powerful.
siyui 2 years ago
It's really rather surprising how powerful this type of music can be. I'm sure everyone who has criticized this piece is not a musician, and thus doesn't appreciate it. I myself don't know much about John Cage, or infact his music, but after hearing a few songs, I can really see what he has achieved; and I would that he has definitely surpassed the boundaries.
wackosmacko1234 2 years ago 3
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I hate it!
AmadeusMozart99 2 years ago
I remember a talk Ned Rorem gave in the late 1950s IIRC. Someone asked him how he reacted to critics. While he did not pay much attention to them, he said he preferred his music to be liked, but it was OK if people hated it. Either way, he had communicated, and that was what he was after. What he did not like was when people were bored because in that case he felt he had failed to communicate.
JeanDavid8 2 years ago
Thank you - that is a very honest answer. I would thus deem it quite an accurate portrayal of the holocaust (at least I would hope you would hold the holocaust in the same regard). This music is loathsome, disgusting - what a true representation of what a travesty the holocaust was. The music assaults you in the best of ways - violates your sensibilities as any piece about something as horrible as the holocaust should.
bullitosaladino 2 years ago 4
Well, really, the piece is not about the Jewish (or should I say Nazi) holocaust. It was a pun on the phrase 'holy ghost.'
JeanDavid8 2 years ago
i feel sorry for the piano....being bashed up like that....XD
cloud26793 2 years ago
I do not imagine it hurts the piano much. Possibly it might need tuning after that, but that's about it.
I think preparing a piano is more likely to harm the strings. Putting screws and bolts between the strings could result in slight nicking of them, and if one touches the strings with the fingers, it may leave a deposit of grease and salt on them that may be harmless, but I would not want to guarantee it.
JeanDavid8 2 years ago 3
i LOVE this !
theo9952 2 years ago 5
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sounds terrible. not a very good keyboard player are you
thehivesboy 2 years ago
You think Margaret Leng Tan is not a very good keyboard player do you? She was the first woman to get a Ph.D. from Juilliard. She worked closely with John Cage for about 11 years until the day before he died. He though so much of her he wrote her a composition to play on from 1 to 4 pianos. I have heard her performance on three.
She also is, I believe, the person ever to perform on a toy piano at Carnegie Hall.
JeanDavid8 2 years ago 3
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A toy piano??? why didn't she just play real one? Actually a toy piano wouldn't sound as bad as this pile of crap to be honest.
isn't Julliard for Jews too?
thehivesboy 2 years ago
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TO ALL HOLOCAUST BELIEVERS!!!! Watch the playlist on my channel and then visit the website I link to!!!!
TheAntiSeMight 2 years ago
this version is better than the other version
cherokeema12 2 years ago
at first i found it awfull. but knwo cage makes me think all that we hear is sounds even all types of music!
jamesaellis 2 years ago 2
Nice to finally see her perform this
bitachar 2 years ago
I love this version of the holocaust... i loved
fefefral 2 years ago
Economic progress is certainly not a decent indicator of a given faction doing good things for the world.
JiffyNo0b 2 years ago
National Socialism represents the largest failure of a political ideology in the history of the world. And that's saying a lot when you put it next to capitalism.
JiffyNo0b 2 years ago 3
In either case, government seems to revolve around business. In national socialism you have the "state-run business" where in capitalism you wind up with something like the United States today - the "business-run state."
DerangedRanger1 2 years ago
I wasn't defending capitalism.
JiffyNo0b 2 years ago
thehivesboy,
I was surprised to find that you are 38 years old after reading the comment, but then again, age doesn't reflect experience. Was this your first time hearing this piece of music - what other performances of it have you heard to make this sort of value-laden statement? Or, are you really criticizing its composer? In either case, what is the purpose?
DerangedRanger1 2 years ago 2
i'm 38 :S
thehivesboy 2 years ago
Faggot.
JiffyNo0b 2 years ago
What an intense soundscape performed with avant garde pinache! The violence emanating from the columns of sound which, in turn, was generated by the swift but odd contortions of the pianist, is a beautiful marriage of sight and sound.
VIDE0DR0ME 2 years ago
raging psychopath at the piano?
jae18lovar 2 years ago
I murder Jews to this.
woodrowguthrie 2 years ago
John Cage vs. Liu Kang.
TheMaskedJohnson 2 years ago
I saw her play this live a few days ago. It is a great piece. John Cage, by the way, was a musical genious.
beaemetafudidliad 2 years ago
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Is this like when an artist throws a tomatoe at a canvas and it sells for millions of dollars to eccentric people who want to show that they "get it"?
NeonString 2 years ago
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nah it's just awful noise and some people like it, dickhead
woodrowguthrie 2 years ago
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yeah shut up ass, that was pretty much my point.
NeonString 2 years ago
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you're an insecure smug motherfucker
and whoever gave me a thumbs down for awful noise is pretentious and ignorant
woodrowguthrie 2 years ago
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epic fail.
NeonString 2 years ago
IP 36.47.35.36
I will hunt you down and murder you in cold blood.
"epic fail"
woodrowguthrie 2 years ago
Uhhh, proceed with caution, jackass, since you have now violated federal law and it is up to me whether to report you to the FBI. (not joking)
NeonString 2 years ago
It's not really your IP, coward. It's random digits.
woodrowguthrie 2 years ago
I know it's not my IP, I'm talking about the death threat. I hope you enjoy entertaining houseguests, because you will have some soon. :)
NeonString 2 years ago
I don't have a house.
woodrowguthrie 2 years ago
I was bluffing anyway, I didn't report it. The FBI has more important things to do.
NeonString 2 years ago
@NeonString It's electronic harrassment (misdemeanor) at best and yes a threat at worst.
vanes9066 1 year ago
You can see this piece as anarchism throughout music, but also it can be seen as noise....
xxXDamnationXxx 2 years ago
but you already acknowledged it as a piece of music right there in your comment . . . haha . . . how 'bout we don't call it either we just call it music and leave it at that . . . that's what Cage would have wanted . . .
DocHou72 2 years ago
Maravilloso.profetico
ratara12 2 years ago
boop boop, dis is sic fam. i is going 2 sho all my ghetto boys dis shit
o0hedphuq0o 2 years ago
This is what happens when I let my 3 year old sit at the piano.
27yankovic 2 years ago
Your 3 year old is an edgy avant-garde musical genius!
Silverwolf90 2 years ago
Comment removed
veggieburgerfish 2 years ago
I see now where Frank Zappa got his most influence...
limunovapita 2 years ago
a painfully beautiful rendering of human hatred
experiessence 3 years ago 3
Her interpretation makes the song sound 100 times more demented. It's still great though.
regiear1991 3 years ago
When she slams her arm down near the end the piano sounds like a giant drum.
JxDanger 3 years ago
Coming back to this, I still hear utter dreck. I can't believe some listeners would rather listen to what I would describe as "organized noise" rather than the countless other American classical music composers that have been ignored just because they eschew this kind of approach to music.
Honestly I would rather listen to 4:33 than endure pseudo-philosophical works like this. At least it would cure insomnia. :)
alvinkuo777 3 years ago
Hmmm...interesting statement...Yes, if I was to compare this piece to a song by a great, like Copland or Bernstein, I would consider it bad. This "sound" is not meant to be compared, it is meant to be listened to and to be thought about. There is music that allows the listener to just sit back and let the sound envelop them, then there is this...an expression through sound that requires deep thought. Yes, it's monstrous and loud and violent, but there is more.
puremanliness 3 years ago
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There is no thought here; there is the Emperor's Clothes Syndrome. This kind of music is exactly a dead end; nothing interesting or new could come from this. Something similar to this is museum of modern art in New York city. Pure pretentiousness.
alvinkuo777 3 years ago
Music is a form of expression, and Mr Cage did just that. You don't have to like what he says, but I don't think you can call it pretentious. He could have easily wrote a short sad tonal piece in minor, but it would have been fake. I'm sorry his way of expressing isn't aurally satisfying for you. As far as the dead end, something can only decline if it stands still, so how can something this new to us possibly be a dead end? Don't bitch about music you don't understand, that's pretentious.
puremanliness 2 years ago 2
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Very easy to understand this piece, far from the complexities Mahler, Beethoven, and Bach have done. You get to the point of calling noise music and a block of cement sculpture; you reward mediocrity and no imagination with praise from those who want to fit in.
Emperor's Clothes Syndrome right here.
alvinkuo777 2 years ago
And a half cadence is? Why does the idea of creativity have to only apply to tonality. Tonality is a fixed system, it has barriers that once they are passed, it is now atonality. Atonality is looked down upon because of it breaks these barriers. Why must you deny creativity when it is starting you in the face? You don't have to like it, but don't deny it its right to be organized sound, which is what Cage called music? Don't deny a human his right to think and express what he wants.
puremanliness 2 years ago 2
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This is not creative. If you think it is, fine, but the fact is composers like John Cage have associated modern classical music with pieces that require no input from the listener and little discernable talent.
I am not denying anyone the right to create art; I criticize those who defend art like this and think that no one else can criticize. Atonality has its merits, but by the time you get to this...complete nonsense. No one actually likes John Cage; those who do...I pity their friends.
alvinkuo777 2 years ago
I really think that this is completely perfectly planned out, pure expression, but I also appreciate that it also can just sound like noise.
veggieburgerfish 2 years ago
I think sometimes, you just "get" certain types of music, and sometimes you don't. There will always be some music for everybody they don't appreciate, personally I used to listen to delta blues, and not hear anything other than REALLY bad guitar playing and singing, but now I hear it and think woah. Have a look at watch?v=rOyj4ciJk34 (John Lee Hooker- boom boom). I used to hear that and think, what? That's just noise, but now I hear it and just hear awesomeness...
veggieburgerfish 2 years ago
Sometimes a person gets stuck in a mode where anything weird and new is cool.
Emperor's Clothes Syndrome
alvinkuo777 2 years ago
The piece isn't even all that noisy. Sure, it's simple but plenty of music is simple. What I'm sure this piece isn't is easy. I would think it far more difficult to have a piece like this sound so perfectly organized than it is here than say something by Chopin. Even with the unorganized nature of such techniques Ms. Tan makes the cluster chords sound very organized and tight and together. I actually found that I enjoyed the piece the noisier it got. I thought it had more unity towards like end.
findingusernamesucks 2 years ago 2
I'd actually like to suggest that you look at Cage opposite of the way puremanliness is suggesting. If it is so enraging that Cage is considered creative than just think of him in terms of some garden variety pop act. Regardless of whether it's creative or not the rythmic qualities here and the expansion of timbre that is on display are both tangibly enjoyable. Furthermore, the player Margaret Leng Tan has done a great job.
findingusernamesucks 2 years ago 2
Other composers aren't ignored, they are just a different type of music. Cage wasn't a late romantic, or neoclassical, or folk, pop, rock, anything! He was a composer of organized, philosophical sound. Again, he can't be compared, for he is purely individual. I can't think of many composers that have really become well-known through this type of music, hell, the majority of people don't listen to cage either. Most people listen to tonal works, so what you said doesn't really make sense. Good try
puremanliness 3 years ago
this is awful
inchwormrocker 3 years ago
whether or not one enjoys this piece, one must certainly give Cage credit for making the piano sound REALLY different. :)
MrNoelJMIS 3 years ago
Great.
ReignOfPraine 3 years ago
sux
hamada20101987 3 years ago
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is this a piss take? i mean its absolutley awful
inchwormrocker 3 years ago
This sound like something i used to play when i was 5 years old.
Algirdass0 3 years ago
every sound is music
every noise is music
noise has no soul, john adams dropping tool boxes on the floor has no soul, but just noise
if noise is music
noise is holocaust??
music is not just about sound or noise
it is about the soul, the beauty of it.
John Adams may be inspirational to you, but I can't see how this piece has soul. It is just noise.
goyoubear 3 years ago
One of the things that i understood of the 20th century's music is the fact that "a sound is just a sound". So there's no need to have soul or things like that.
Then you can agree or disagree, i can't (and i suppose nobody can) tell you what's righ. Art is subjective, and so is beauty.
P.S. i hadn't made my choice yet.
and i apologize for my not-that-perfect english :)
JohnThePetru 3 years ago
Art IS subjective. But sound without soul is not music. I just don't buy into John Cage especially for writing this music about Holocaust because he attempted to express Holocaust in sound that absolutely has no soul.
I think the difference between sound and music is sound is like reading headline news and music is more like reading Cormac McCarthy's novels.
goyoubear 3 years ago
Many people have tried to define the term "music" or "art", John Cage said, that when somebody produces sounds in order to listen to it, it's music.
I think this piece is more musical than most of his other pieces, but, of course, it's very depressive and monotonous, but that is what you need for describing the holocaust.
lorenzarthur91 3 years ago 2
actually, Cage would even say himself that this piece was not intended to describe or even reflect on the holocaust- the title was a pun on "Holy Ghost"...but it is certainly not a soulless noise...there is thought and feeling in it- just not ones that most people feel comfortable with.
MrNoelJMIS 3 years ago
I couldnt do something as good as this
jasmincar 3 years ago
Then do it and after that you show us...
luisalvaz 3 years ago
345aedf 462/$?
jasmincar 3 years ago
Another piece by John Cage that fails to leave an impression on me, except for failure. Heck, if he were to name this "Childhood Nightmares," it will make more sense than "In the Name of the Holocaust." And there are actually people out there who try to defend this dreck. I would rather listen to Gorecki's symphony no. 3 and messiaen's quartet for the end of time than this.
Note I am not disputing its status as music.
alvinkuo777 3 years ago
Music is art, you know this? As long as it gave you a response, like anger, it has done it's job as art. It doesn't need to have simple rhythm played during the full song to be considered music.
XSeveredManX 3 years ago
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This is really a lame reply. Using your "logic" anything can be music if it evokes a response - a dog growling as it bites your leg, a car honking as it cuts in front, a child crying in a store, a telemarketer, etc . I'm open to all kinds of music but the operative word is "music". At least with this kind of music, you never have to worry about a virtuoso performance or need to practice 8 hours a day.
smb12321 3 years ago
I think Cage intends the listener to start down this exact line of thought. It may not be entertaining(I certainly don't like much of it) but it's the most direct way to provoke people into figuring out (or arguing about) where 'Music' ends and 'noise' begins.
"If you develop an ear for sounds that are musical it is like developing an ego. You begin to refuse sounds that are not musical and that way cut yourself off from a good deal of experience."
- John Cage
interesting enough, I guess!
rspringler 3 years ago 6
smb you appear to have missed the entire point of modernist thought and composition. Cage's whole idea as springler has pointed out was experimentation with sound. He argued, along with many others, including Hanslick nearly 100 years before that music was consituted of the organisation of sounds and nothing more. He experimented with this idea and therefore with the sounds which could be used. So yes, to him, in the right context a dog growling as it bites your leg could be considered music
kingcutt 3 years ago 5
and funny you mention car horns honking, as Cage used to take his students out into time square and make them shut their eyes and listen for an hour, after which he would ask if they heard music. Don't forget, alot of the rhythm of the blues and other musics is derrived from the rhythm of the trains which played a key part in most peoples lives at the time. Its as much a philosophical point as an aural one and you've clearly failed to grasp the entire purpose behind modernist experimentation
kingcutt 3 years ago 2
on top of which, as Springler again pointed out, its aesthetics, what is music? Theorists like Adorno would argue it is exactly this kind of 'music', which forces you to think and question, which is necessary in an age where pop music rules the masses and the most people are concerned with is being able to dance to a song or hum its melody line.
kingcutt 3 years ago
Further, it could be argued the negative experience alvin has to the music reflects the true state of humankind, and the quicker more people experience it the quicker they will see the overwhelmingly negative aspects of modern society, rather than hiding behind a fascade of pop music "i love you"s please sir, try to understand what youre talking about before you become so opinionated in public and embarrass yourself
kingcutt 3 years ago
Thank you! All you Philistines out there poised to insult and degrade Cage's music, read kingcutt's post first.
franzliszt370 3 years ago
lol, i don't know well the cage's carreer but his music is influenced by the zen budism, and here the intention is not exactly to make noise but to break patterns.... music is at a constant evolution so why don't changing a bit the concept of music, avoiding all the knonw rythms and discovering something else... and that mf is a really difficult job. and people like you make it more difficult
mitalico666 3 years ago