Johnny Miller's Swing Advice for Robert Allenby Examined

[jdstripper]

I agree with Miller. The follow through does look a little awkward and if Miller took the time to analyze it the way Wayne does then he could no doubt diagnose what the real problem is. As I see it, the left leg "collapsing" is what makes the swing look "funny". Most great ball strikers are bracing against the left leg.

[tronyellow133]

I could not disagree with you more. He was talking about how his arms fold up after impacts instead of maintaining their extension. It improves distance with the driver as well with the irons. Now J.Miller can be annoying at times but you don't win majors and dozens of tournament wins and become a hall of famer without some knowledge of the game.

[wdefrancesco]

@tronyellow133 Allenby is one of the best ball strikers on tour year in and year out. His hands come in relatively high and swing down and left through impact, exactly what Trackman data says is a superior approach to impact. He keeps his left arm pit closed up in the follow through, which which keeps the left arm rotating with the chest and makes it look to be narrow or "folded up". This is not the case, as is seen by the full extension of his right arm. Study the video.

[rrtmlt]

Could not agree more with Wayne. Well said Wayne because no one else has the balls to stand up to that rude and uninformed cunt called j miller. Thinks he's gods gift to golf commentary but if they sacked him tomorrow we would not even remember the rude cunts name next week. Craig parry wins at the blue monster and do you think miller would congratulate him on a great achievement. No he just shit canned him about his slicers swing. Most fucking rude fuck going on television hope the cunt falls

[rw5791]

these swivle heads don't have their left eye on the ball at impact.That's got to be a problem.None of the greats have that kind of action.The left side,including the eye,is in control and lets them just slam into the ball with all they've got.

I think that's what miller is getting at,how allenby and duval just seem cramped through impact.

[madaekror]

Wayne, I completely agree with you about Johnny Miller. For a colour commentator he really has no idea what he's talking about, and rarely has any empirical data to back up his statements. I'm sure he relies on the hope that 99% of the viewers have no idea either and so have no choice but to believe him. Put David Feherty or Gary McCord in the box, at least they're are funny. Miller has the personality of a week old stool.

[retreattodefeat]

So let it be annoying. Nobody's forcing people to listen to what johnny miller has to say. He is right about a lot of the things he says, let the viewers decide what to believe and what not to believe, and focus on your own career.

[Stickett]

It has nothing to do with JEALOUSY. Wayne makes a logical argument that is 100% correct and people attack him because "oh, fuck you johnny is great, win some majors!" Yeah great argument assholes.

[Stickett]

Awesome vid.

[retreattodefeat]

johnny says things that he believes are true whether they are or not... so be it. As somebody trying to get people to watch your videos and learn the game, you making a 7 minute production trying to bash his intelligence is pretty weak.

[wdefrancesco]

@retreattodefeat You say "so be it". I say people are listening and deserve better. I find the nonsense coming from the TV announcers to be highly annoying. No one holds Miller and his cohorts accountable for anything they say. I don't think it's "weak" to do so.

[Tikiman03]

Funny about Mark Rolfing having a shrine to Johnny. Can't stand listening to his broadcasts. It almost makes it not worth watching the tournaments he's covering. I wish NBC would get rid of him.

[redvelvetcupcake01]

Johnny Miller was a great player but just cause he was good doesn't mean he knows the mechanics of the golf swing. There is probably not one pga tour golfers swing in Johnny's era that I would try and emulate. 

[riverace7]

I hear you Wayne, kind of like a person calling himself a pro who uses GI oversize irons. Doesn't that just make you want to puke?

[ScratchrBust51]

Your obsessive dislike for Miller is only exceeded by your arrogance. Miller was right Allenby doesn't "chase the ball down the target line as long as some of the better ball strikers" he meant with his hands! Interesting that you conveniently changed the swing to one that better fit your bias. The swing that was actually commented on by Miller and Faxon was a poor shot and IMO Millers analysis was spot on. Miller says some over the top stuff but man you are trying awful hard to trash him.

[teamtumbleweed]

if moe or hogan saw this swing they would laugh.

[wdefrancesco]

@teamtumbleweed Or "puke", as Johnny would probably say. More likely, since Hogan respected anyone who played for a living, he would have nodded and gone about his business.

[tenillechristine]

another savvy analysis... this guy knows the game.

[Msalera77]

First, sorry davidrives you were showing your wife Stuart Appleby and not Robert Allenby, this video was taken 7+ years ago as that was the range at Laurel Valley before the PA Classic event was canceled. Second, let's be smart about this people RA is 100% not collapsing through the ball, that is impossible to collapse when your arm+club are still straight two feet past the ball. What Miller is talking about is, similar to Dustin Johnson, an around finish for a tall guy, like he practiced with

[littlebigtrain]

Miller defies all logic and Physics. He is a complete jerk. 

[littlebigtrain]

wayne you are so right. Miller is a complete clown. He thinks he knows it all and states things has fact that are not even close.

[MrFitzwilly]

Nice try defrancesco, Miller holds records your jealousy only magnifies. Now as far as that swing of Allenby with the buckling knees and spun out shoulders, and on top of that, the results was that the ball went into the crowd on the right so you may want to take a step back on the great ball striker term, as it does not fit and he is still looking for his ball in the crowd.

[wdefrancesco]

@MrFitzwilly Funny, I guess he cheats to win all that money. That must be it, because by all accounts he is not a great putter. And I may be jealous of Miller's playing record, but certainly not his announcing. Oh yeah, and by the way, I'm still trying to play. Miller quit.

[romulus962]

@wdefrancesco Miller quit after 20+ wins and 2 majors.  What have you won.

[littlebigtrain]

@MrFitzwilly What are you talking about? Yes Miller was a very good player but he is an awful player and is a know it all. His swing theories often defy physics and logic. Please Miller is a clown.

[littlebigtrain]

@MrFitzwilly What are you talking about? Miller says things that defies logic and physics. He states things has facts that are complete BS.

[Klistern2]

@MrFitzwilly Cant be too bad, hes won 19 million in 10 years. And i doubt this guy is jealous, anyway thats a very immature comment, are you 12?

[blueshockey100]

I like this video of yours, Wayne. I'm a plus 1 and my instructor is having me work on moving the club more "around and left" after impact using my core to square the face than down the line and using my hands to square it. I've seen almost immediate results in my ball flight. Far fewer snap hooks and blocks to the right. And good call on Miller.

[ryathoma]

I agree with you. Johnny Miller and those other guys get on my nerves. Many of his comments are over simplistic and just make you shake your head. Of course if you've won as many tournaments as he has you can say whatever you want even though it might not be very helpful - especially to the average player.

[Skibum1500]

I love Miller's commentary during golf matches....it's funny. But you have it dead on, on this one. Allenby's swing is a little different, but not for the reasons Miller said. As a student of Hogan's swing I have noticed what you have. He swings through left and bows his wrist which keeps that club square to the target line for a long time. I think it was the key to his shot making ability and consistency. Good job letting Miller have it!

[Parizeau21]

great analysis sir

[HynoDesigns]

I agree with Johnny Miller. I think Allenby's is an overrated ball striker...He totally collapses at the ball. Miller hit the ball much better than this guy could ever dream. Johnny was down than up than down the line. Modern Equipment has wrecked the art of ball striking it lets players get away with too many mistakes. Allenby would have a hard time playing on tour in the early 70ties...

[wdefrancesco]

@HynoDesigns Allenby's stats suggest otherwise. Ask a Tour player and they will tell you that Allenby flushes the ball consistently. As for collapsing at the ball, his impact position from face on is one of the best on Tour. What he does after impact is odd, but it has to do more with his retaining left knee bend than it does his arms. And no one swings "down the line". All swings go around in an arc, including Miller's.

[HynoDesigns]

@wdefrancesco Wayne if this guy is so good why has he never been in contention in a major? Mickelson hits it all over the map and beats Allenby all the time. Miller won golf tournaments and shot scores (Was not the best putter). This guy is not a champion golfer he just wins money. I think he is robotic and lacks imagination and creativity.

[Bogeyssuk]

I've heard many top pro's reference chasing the ball down the line (Trevino, Snead, Player, Nelson, and others). What's the point of this, another Miller bashing?

Irritating is listening to pseudo golf swing guru's who think they know more than a guy who won 25 tournaments.

[wdefrancesco]

@Bogeyssuk You just reference 4 guys whose club goes at least as far left as Allenby's after impact. "Chasing down the line" is a shopworn cliche' that doesn't help any normal player hit the ball better or understand the swing better. Moe Norman thought he went "down the line" when he went left more than anyone ever. And as for Miller's playing record, that's a given. He was a great player. That has nothing to do with what he says on the air about the golf swing. Stupid is stupid.

[Damocracy]

@HynoDesigns No idea mate. Allenby is probably one of top 10 ball strikers in the world. If he could putt he would be no.1 in the world. He did not use 'modern' eq't when he started playing 20 or so years ago.

[danic18]

@HynoDesigns I would like only to offer a fact, if you really chase it down the line your arms will be cut off your body, given the fact that your body is built like a cylinder and your arms are not able while attached to chase it down the line very long

[ScratchrBust51]

@danic18 Chasing it down the line is a matter of split seconds and a few inches. No need to remove anyones arms. The fact that Miller makes so many critical observations makes for great conversation and debate, like this feed, and btw good television. Maybe you would rather have 2 Jim Lampleys in the booth doing a suckfest.

[wdefrancesco]

@USASF9 I won the National Club Pro...does that count? There are 53 videos. Seems like you've chosen the ones where I take issue with things announcers say. I focus on what they say, not on randomly trying to pump myself up at their expense. My beef with Miller is that he is overly simplistic, as though it should be as easy for everyone else as it was for him. And I never said he wasn't a great ball striker or a great player. The issue is his commentary. I respect all good golfers.

[myguitarwantstokill]

miller was so much more a complete player in his hey day in the early/mid 70's....no comparison betw him and allenby imo!

[myguitarwantstokill]

allenby picks up the club, but does get on plane thru impact zone.....just a weak extension at the end

[mejmo06]

Johnny Miller learned how to play by "feeling" the club and the sensations that swinging create. Video and sensation contradict each other very often. What I believe Miller is saying is that he (everyone) should chase DOWN...even though he says down the line. It is physically impossible to swing "down the line" when your whole body is rotating left. That being said, the sensation of swinging "down the line" is very viable. It creates extention which creates deep compression. Just maybe.

[80sbuttrock]

Johnny Miller=straightest iron player in the history of the game.

wdefrancesco= 19th hole pro.

[mazdaspeedmx512lbs]

Johnny is absolutely correct. Allenby's swing is how my swing used to be. The left arm crumples in the follow through. I fixed my swing & have trajectory control & extension after impact. There are things that other people know about the swing & golf that you do not. Allenby is limiting his abilitys with his swing flaw.

[wdefrancesco]

@mazdaspeedmx512lbs Great. I'm sure you're now higher up on the money list than Allenby. By the way, Hogan exited left under the shaft plane. He generally did OK with it.

[mazdaspeedmx512lbs]

@wdefrancesco Weather Allenby exits under the plane does not matter there are things that people know about the swing & golf that you do not. Just because Johnny does not fit into your way of thinking & you do not understand what he is talking about does not mean other people do not understand him.

[mazdaspeedmx512lbs]

@wdefrancesco wouldn't you have to be higher up on the money list also? lol

[AbbyKnightsFtw]

Johnny is correct, his arms aren't fully extended through impact which many great ballstrikers have, he also breaks his left arm on the backswing, Hogan would have a fit

[sulakleo]

miller might be hard to understand but he has the history to back it up.,, why dont you respect one of the all time greats of the game,, show more RESPECT,,, never heard of you. give miller a chance to explain himself,, he would give you a lesson or two

[golfnff]

Wayne, I think it's funny that Johnny says he has a "huge amount of lateral movement into it". It doesn't look like there is a whole lot of lateral movement there to me. Looks pretty average with all the great ball strikers.

[mattrose79]

Thanks Wayne, I enjoyed this. Very good ball striker. I watch him at the Aus Open each year when he comes home and the thing that impresses me most, as well as his driver ball flight, is the flight he gets on a little 5 wood he has. It goes on the same low/strong trajectory as his driver. It reminds me of a Hogan story passed down the line in which it is said that all his shots, no matter the club, fell out of the air at the same height. You won't see this if you sling it down the line.

[norrispg]

Wayne, if you read some of these comments you'll understand why the average golf score is 92. People don't know their butts from a hole-in-the-ground and can be sold a bill of goods by the slickest-sounding salesman. Johnny knows that he is making up alot of what he says, and anyone who can half play the game (including most tour players) realize that he is doing exactly that with much of his commentary...your analysis is right-on and Johnny gave an off-the-cuff comment that lacked any study.

[davidrives]

The most amazing thing about this is that I took my wife to the Los Angeles Open about 6 yrs ago, and Allenby was on the range, and I said to my wife: "Watch his head as he's swinging. What do you see?" At which point, her jaw dropped: "Ohmigod: I'd never have believed a human being could keep his head THAT COMPLETELY STILL thru the entire golf swing!"

That's right: the guy who now turns his head EVEN BEFORE IMPACT, never moved moved his head a MILLIMETER just 6 yrs ago!! Amazing.

[glockadoodledoo]

Johnny Miller and Gary Koch both need to shut the fuck up already. They are so fucking negative and self important. I put the TV on mute when they're announcing. And if anyone starts to talk shit like them on the golf course, I tell them to "push that" up their ass. How's that Gary Koch, better than most? FUCK YOU TOO.

[ralphthel]

Hi Wayne... far  as i'm concerned Johnny Miller was right on with this one. The guy can be a bit forward but his analysis of golf is without question the best there is.

[naflack]

johnny miller doesnt understand one plane swing characterisitics, his commentary on this clip is proof positive.

i might add that annika looked very similar to allenby and dominated her time on tour.

i like johnny because he will call out the pampered players but it is annoying that he thinks eveyone should swing like he did.

different body types swing different ways!

[crussi]

Jhonny Miller reminds of Maradona: not because they were great players means they know the technicality of the game.

[golfogac]

Love the compilation of swings and analysis - much more informative than unsupported quips by TV commentators - perhaps they don't have during live coverage for anything but cliches such as 'chase down the line'.

Good work, please post more.

[hardyhardhor]

look again ! Johnny is correct . Allenby is narrow and awkward with a blindingly obvious move of his hands as if he is sucking them towards his left shoulder sfter impact and killing any real extension down the line. Luckily his timing is good and he repeats the same thing over and over.

A baby can see this. Miller has shot 63s to win major championships !! he knows what hes talking about clever clogs!!

[wdefrancesco]

@hardyhardhor Yeah, great idea. Just swing "down the line". Hogan had it all wrong. Allenby is so "narrow and awkward" that he almost wins every week in spite of being a poor putter.

[smithersandburns]

@hardyhardhor Nobody who has ever hit a ball straight has ever swung "down the line." That is a golf term used by people who don't know what the hell they are actually talking about. Johnny Miller himself, when he hit straight iron shots back in the 70s, never swung down the line (target line). He swung left of it, look at videos of him.

What people don't understand is that Johnny Miller and almost all tv analysts just make things up in order to fill airtime. It's mostly a bunch of bs.

[hardyhardhor]

@smithersandburns you are asuming miller is clueless. what he suggests is that by trying to swing down the line rather than pulling inwars and left accross it as allenby does so clearly the combination of body rotation and the arms actually swinging upwards you create the perfect plane with the clubhead...this is not 4th grade comments..its physics.miller knows his stuff..if you guys knew more you would be out there winning more majors than him!!

[smithersandburns]

@hardyhardhor I hope you're kidding and trying to be tremendously ironic with this latest comment. Because if you aren't then I weep for humanity.

[hardyhardhor]

@smithersandburns ..if you are not too busy weeping for humanity in a few words please describe how YOUR arms and body move to swing the clubhead on plane. both i and mr miller know the club moves inside to inside..the point you are missing is that he is stating that allenby does it too much going through..lets not make it any more complex than it is.

[Nightwing690]

i think Miller jynxed Alleby XD

[jdstripper]

You obviously did not understand what Miller was saying. Faxon was correct and Miller was correct. There was no contradiction. Allenby does come up quickly after the shot just as Miller pointed out.

[wdefrancesco]

@jdstripper Allenby releases way left and lower than most because of his upper body rotation. He also keeps his left knee bent throughout the forward swing which keeps him "down" as well. The point here is that Miller sees things on a 4th grade level and offers simplistic explanations of more complex issues.

[PGASpellissy]

A shrine to Miller in his basement? Hahaha

[Nightwing690]

Wayne, can you do an analysis of Duval?