@ThePeaceMissile: Actually that's simply not true people are much bigger and they enter puberty much earlier and develop much younger than they did in the past.
plz show me where in the Bible it says that Miriryam was 12 yrs old when she became impregnated? and it does not say so in the Oxforn dictionary Bible either, it says that when Miriyam was 14, she made a vow to GOD to stay a virgin, maybe you should learn to read, and it does not say when she became impregnated does it? And I really could careless what you believe, it's but a lie anyways
Hmm if its true that Yosef where 90 yr old when he married Miriyam then he would be 104 yrs old when YESHUA where 12 right? And it also says that Miriyam was 14 yrs old when she made a vow to GOD to stay a virgin so this means that she was 14-16 when she married Yosef Seems like you left this out my dear lost friend
It will not be without interest to recall here, unreliable though they are, the lengthy stories concerning St. Joseph's marriage
bro it doesnt matter how old aysha was these christians can talk all they want mary had jesus when she was 10 years old and then she married josaf when she was 11 guess how old josaf was he was 90 at the time geeez these chrisitains gota nerve yet they got a nerve calling our prophet a pedophile ALLAHU EKBER!
And my dear lost friend just where do you find this in the Bible? plz give a Bible verse or scripture where it says that Miriryam was 10 yrs old when she had JESUS; and 11 yrs old when she married Yosef, and that Yosef was 90 yrs old, are you saying that she had sex with Yosef before they married, does the quran also say this, remember we're talking abt Miriryam the mother of JESUS
Oh shut up, you believe that when you do good deeds in life you go to paradise and get a bunch of virgins? Is that what lifes all about, getting ready to have sex with virgins while your wives who have been treated like slaves their whole lives watch you. Your religion concludes that your 'paradise' is about sex, not about being with God, open your eyes.
there was not a single person who protested at that time coz it was custom.
aisha never repented her marriage,on the contrary she was happy.
abu bakr ayesha's father. never repented.
there were many people who were extremely against muhammad,even those opponents never criticized.because it was their culture. y non muslims in this era have pain in their ass ?
dawah100 you have believed in a false religion for all your life and when you perish you will find out it was for nothing but for Satan,pain will be ten fold waiting for you in your paradise satans messenger will be waiting for you with open arms. Remember the devil deceives just like the quran, muslims are the destructors of the world always fighting and killing never truly happy always trying to justify there perverse ways,could your messenger really be the messenger of the devil, yes.
the messenger of satan known as mohammed will not save you but condemn you to his paradise where the rivers of wine flow and lust for fornication and sexual pervertion is rife. Death and soul destruction is the true hellfire of the muslim man. you will have excruciating pain of being bumbed by mohammed and his satan followers your cock will be sucked 100 million times by camals that will also piss and shit in your face.
He is the messenger of God in truth. Rivers of wine that is something you kaafirs would love 2 have, but for you there is boiling water in the hell fire.
It is not fornication, it is a blessing from God in paradise, and u kaafir would wish u would get that.
And ur false religion teach u 2 swear like a pig azz? What kind of false religion is that!
you just proved that ur false religion teach u evil and crap like behaving like ANIMALS.
oh rivers of wine have been promised for you in the quran along with fornication read your unholy book and you will see. the boiling water is also there for you to wash yourself clean for when you meet mohamad and his camels.
My dear lost friend yes your right we have a problem with ill-allah, muhammad, islam, the quran and the sooner it disappear the better not only for the sake of us the kaafirs but for the sake of those enslaved ppl in the islamic world
He had young he had old, he had tight he had loose, he had 11 wives he was never satisfied, his cock was always hard non of the 10 could make if flop but Aisha enjoyed it so much she sucked it like a lolly pop.
believer of satan, i will pray for you to be saved. May god open your hate filled confused eyes, may god open those blocked closed evil ears may god enlighten you to be a better more peaceful person. May god make you a more loving person rather than a cattle that is just following the crowd and doing as satan wanted them do. I will pray for you my friend and save you but also you need to save yourself from mohamed the messenger of satan/dajjal only then will you see the true light.
how can a 90 year old kaafir rape a 1 year old baby?
what is the problem with Muhammad pbuh being married to a woman who reaches the agre of puberty, 1400 years ago, when ur ancestors used to have sex with babies.
Your sick, you need your head examined. How comes all muslims say it was the way things used to be in those days.But when it comes to stoning and chopping hands off or beheading they still do it because they say its part of the religion. Thats how crazy the false religion is countless people have found contridictions in the quran and yet they still refute them. Allah was so great he spoke and convervsed in 1 language he was so great that it took him 3 books to still not correct his errors.
Oh yeah shes has her period so shes ready to fuck, hmm??? But what about her breast they are still growing. This is such a stupid way to justify or deem when a female is ready to have a child. What about her hips? Fuck this guy who made the video hes a piece shit. Fuck the coran
ur ancestors would have sex with babies on those days. He married a girl and did not consumate marriage til she was 9 having reached the age of puberty, 1400 years ago. Wake up b4 it is too late and u end up in the hell fire.
fat boy go 2 bugger king u fat shit...at that time age was deffen u prick.9years old that time was 16 over u mother fucker..hope u chock on ya buggers faty
They just want to argue about ANYTHING in Islam.. They are all just stupid ignorant people.. Just because Islam is the fastest growing religion, and it makes SENSE to EVERY Single mind, they attack it with their own stupidities..
why? l don't know why! maybe its racial, maybe its just cause they don't like it like l don't like cabbage, who knows! maybe they just don't like it for the sake of not liking it!
because they are afraid they cant controll and silence muslims. so they fear that their way of life will be threatened by a better and eventually more excepting way of life(islam). And/or they are too ignorant to seek out knowledge, thus they succumb to the stereotypes placed by the media and grow fearful, and this fear eventually leads to dislike/hate
biologically speaking, one is considered an adult when he/she reaches puberty. Why should laws define adulthood? It depends on the individual. Puberty is an excellent indicator of adulthood.
wow your one ignorant individual, non educational.you cant acknowledge TIME....you only see modern... i dont know if thats stupidity or just plain ignorance.... seriously go educate yourself....
It fascinates me when atheists question the prophet's marriage to Aisha at puberty, when they believe we are nothing but hairless monkeys with overgrown brains, and monkeys along with other animals mate as soon as they reach puberty. Their hypocrisy is disgusting.
The only reason this simple marriage is a big deal to them is because their society is riddled with children being raped and molested, even by their parents. A classic case of 'projection' of their own issues on others.
You seem to be educated and well mannered. How on earth did you end up being a muslim? You people treat your women like shit. All the concepts are ages old and irrelevant today. In all countries wherever Islam is present, there is bloodshed and violence. Even if other communities arent there, then it is shia and sunni. Muslims are not peace lovers. They believe in kill and let kill.
u said, that i said, that she said, that he said, that they said, that we said, that he said, that she said, when all we said is we love each other, so he says!
liar Aisha was according 2 your own scholars and books 6 when she married dirty old muhammad and 9 when he had sex with her, poor girl and I think that's why she never had any children
It seems the sleight of printers' busy hands is more appealing to your eyes because it lends a helping hand to your cause of spreading lies, while the concrete historical facts deliberately get pushed aside & denied as the truth!
Oh, Hannah, Umm Maryam was prophet Isah's mother, NOT as you spelt miriryam- get your act together gurlie!
A prophet of Allah swt, who performed many miracles but never once did he ever claim to be a god. Though Paul in his foolishly mistaken belief made him become one. See any similarity to the Buddhist philosophy of reincarnation?
Theres yet another claim made by the learned that Isah ibn Maryam was (Jesus) but became Christ after his supposes death- what next?
Muslim Imam talks about Mohammads Marriage to Aisha when she was Age-6 and Mohammad having Sex with Aisha when she was Age-9. watch this youtube video:
It wont let me post a link to the video so I will send it to you. Mohammad had sex with 9-Year old little Aisha.
in the world 1400 years ago!!!!!!!!! all over the world ppl even the popes and priests who fuck young BOYS!!! in FUCKIN!!! churches man!
thought it was okay man so for all u ppl who think its wrong come here to my country n c how ppl get married there is nothing wrong
with it even thugh now they hve to be married at 18. long time a go a girl who was not educated need'd support if her family was poor her groom would support her!!!!!!
Listen, during the period of the prophet (saw), times were different yes. At that time puberty decided your age. there was no such thing as childhood when you hit puberty you were classified as an adult. OKAY. Just because times are different now and society has changed doesnt make what happened then wrong. You've just got to face the facts and the past and MOVE ON islam is perfect. the quran is perfect and Allah is perfect. Study Islam NOT muslims. Peace be to all walaykumasalaam wr wb
I answered every single one of his lame points. You opted to turn away. I provided fact, no opinion. I provided sources. He didn't provide a damn thing.
Secondly, you're retarded. Only 100 years ago, the minimum age of consent was 10 in this country. Actually, listen to my video instead of trying to one up me.
As for aggression problem. Sure. I only treat others as they treat me or my faith. I responded in the same tone and manner as he did. Go troll some other page.
When we try to divide children from adults, we place their maturity according to age and then make a dividing line where most of the children will be considered adult.
People below 12 years of age are considered as that of paediatric age currently, but there are people who are still immature beyond 12 and there are some who attain maturity earlier.
womhist . alexanderstreet . com /teacher/aoc . htm
Read woman history in America after removing spaces
Campaign to Raise the Legal Age of Consent, 1885-1914
American reformers were shocked to discover that the laws of most states set the age of consent at the age of ten or twelve, and in one state, Delaware, the age of consent was only seven
The psychological development of a child is the vital consideration before adults begin targeting them for sex. This is the prime reason for pedophilia to be illegal.
If menstruation was the criterion, then adult women who don't menstruate wouldn't be allowed to have sex.
Although children with hormonal disorders have begun menstruation at aged 3, you should not seduce them, but allow them to mature emotionally and psychologically and make informed choices about their life partners.
she used to help treat the wounded soldiers and look after them, doesnt that she is mature enuf to be a wife? and maturing at the age of 9 is normal as far as i know.
Think about it. Would you like to have been married to a 53 yr-old woman when you were 6, or 9? You know it would be unfair. As Muslim writer Mr.Ziauddin Sardar says:
"Muhammad was only a man. What made him human was that he could make mistakes and he was a product of his own time. But in reality, Muslims have fetishised the Prophet so much that all his human qualities have evaporated; his time and context have been transformed into eternal time."
1400years ago it was ok and perfectly normal according to their ethics and tradition, today it isnt ok...so basically if u actually watched the video u would understand.
No, it wasn't "ok" 1400 years ago. Pedophilia is never ok. It might have been accepted as normal -as it is today among pedophiles - but it's not ok. Rape, murder and pillaging were seen as normal 1000s of yrs ago, but we rightfully scorn this behavior. We perhaps shouldn't be harsh in judging primitive peoples who did these things, but there have ALWAYS been people throughout history who have risen above the barbaric norm, and we degrade their memory if we give the "ok" to the worst practices.
It was ok during that time it was like that all over the world, due to low life expectancy. If it was wrong the pagan arabs would have been the first to point it out and even ppl around the world at the time. As for ur other accusations it seems u have learnt them in ur church coz they r baseless. Learning about islam there is like reading a movie review done by a blind guy, thats how stupid it is.
No religion forbids more than one wife.Jews christians and others all had more than one wife. Politicians stopped it. Prophet solomon and many.Qu'ran is the only holy book than put conditions for having more than one wife.
I think that those who think that the scientific method is the means for detecting whether a scientific claim is true or false can concur that when a healthy female reaches her menstruational cycle, she is able to sexually reproduce, and for the religious, that's God saying she could sexually reproduce.
I appreciate that. I have never been to stickam, but will check it out. I was blocked because I questioned islamandfriends reasoning. Basically he said that aggressive actions can be taken in order to create peace. This reasoning can lead down a dangerous road. I have never been banned so quickly for such a benign comment. There was no attack on anyone. Just seemed like he was hiding from reality and didn't want to hear any opposition. Strange for someone so confident in their positions.
Islamandfriends is afraid of discussion. He complains yokeup blocks and deletes comments. Well so does he. I expect to be blocked for this comment as well, regardless of it's benign nature.
Islamandfriends is anything but afraid of discussion. If you want to debate him or simply partake in civil discourse, visit the IslamTalk chat room in Stickam. He's always in there. Most of us Muslims here on YT are spend quite a bit of time there.
Furthermore, try not assuming or generalizing. I'll only block you and your comments if you attack me personally or merely piss me off with your tone. You've done neither. Feel free to comment as long as you keep it civil.
The problem that most people see with Mohammad was not whether the marriage was consummated at what are or which time. Its just a universally accepted norm that a 50+yr old man shouldn't have sex with a 9yr old, fit to be his granddaughter.This is a perversion regardless of time and age.The other issue is that this man tends to be the most perfect man according to ur religion, now that what I call is a huge problem.Being a prophet that he was shouldn't have allowed such a deviant practice!
2 0f 2)Only in USA we do not understand this concept! IN USA we have kids killing kids selling drugs stealing cars at 12 or even younger driving cars caring for their younger siblings! Killing their parents making plans to kill. They are capable of it! We as the adults are not doing a good job raising them properly and teaching them what is right and wrong! We can not judge the whole world same as usa!
1 of 2) Everyone has to understand life expectancy 1150 years ago was not like now. What was it 30years 20years of age? People were different then. They lived differently! Look at other countries kids are more mature at a much younger age.Even presently in most cultures the age of maturity is 12 or 14. That is now not 1150 years ago.
If however you would like to continue the dicussion, please I your welcome to reply, I'll show the outmost respect and respond. It has been a pleasure.
The pleasure has been all mine. We've exhausted our views on this particular issue but feel free to keep in touch or comment on other vids in the future.
I will respect your wishes, and end this, as U have been very gracious, and I am a guess. People will make up their own mind, N those who have already done so will continue in that path. If the path leads us all to the GOD who created us then I can only HOPE in his compassion, mercy, and forgiveness he will forgive us. I don't believe HOPE is enough, we all must try our best to SEARCH out the RIGHT PATH with an open mind and spirit.
Peace and may GOD BLESS YOU ALL. BonsaiSki, I Thank you, Peace
The marriage was sarah's ideal, because she didn't have FAITH that GOD would do as he PROMISED. Which was to give her and Abraham a son, which he did eventually did do with the miracle birth of Issac. As a result of their LACK OF FAITH they were punished, NOT for the marriage itself. Abraham had other wives after Sarah and Hagar, and was NOT punished for them. So it was not the marriage.
This marriage was not sanctioned by, and as you know it caused a great deal of trouble for Abraham's family. Multiple marriages were allowed by God at that time to increase the human population. This was later changed by Jesus, as he had the authority to do.
Abraham was a Prophet, no? Is this the action of a Prophet? Do you reject him? Where did Jesus abrogate this law? Where does Jesus say, "marry only one" like the Quran?
In actuality, Jesus says in Matthew 5:17, "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill."
That's why he was punished with what his family went through. He suffered, sarah suffered, and certainly Hagar and Ishmael suffered. Abraham had flaws and did sin, he gave sin offerings to God for forgiveness. That's why the true example is the sinless one JESUS. No such behavior is in him.
In the future may I suggest before you make a claim that this haddith does not say something first be sure it's true. like wise when claiming something is in the bible, do the same, be sure. Abraham and Hagar were married and NO age is mention for Hagar just Abraham.
I don,t want to make him out to be anything, the appearance already exsist. because he as a prophet is held to a higher standard. as such what everyone else was doing at the time THE( NORM)can not be used as an excuse.
Again, You amaze me. You state that "the one thing you can't stand is someone who can't admit when they're wrong" So you WRONGLY accuse me saying "What is unbelievable is the FACT you substituted "play" with "fondle". That Hadith says nothing about fondling." Instead of APOLOGIZING, when you're OBVIOUSLY wrong, you correct my typo. Now after condemning me for the use of the word, you read it with your own eyes, you don't condemn BUKHARI, instead you now try to explain away. No answer?
You say "This entire string is a moot point." really, so for young virgins SILENCE means YES, when someone is asking her to marry him. But for a man SILENCE+A GLANCE+LOWERING HIS GAZE means NO. Now I got it. What if the young virgin is silent and lowers HER HEAD what does that mean, how about if she closes her eyes? Moot, I think not.
You amaze me. You state that "the one thing you can't stand is someone who can't admit when they're wrong" So you WRONGLY accuse me saying "What is unbelievable is the FACT you substituted "play" with "fondle". That Hadith says nothing about fondling." Instead of APOLOGIZING, when you're OBVIOUSLY wrong, you correct my typo. Now after condemning me for the use of the word, you read it with your own eyes, you don't condemn BUKHARI, instead you now try to explain away.
Like I said, I know your M.O. It is simply not historically accurate. It is a tactic that is fairly new.
Look, that is what you have in your own head. It is your own sickness. It is the disease in your own heart. Containers only spill what they have in them. I see it as pure and you view it as child molestation even though he never mentioned an age or child in that Hadith. You did. You need to get yourself check out. It's you, not him.
You never brought up Hadith Num 17. There are thousands of Hadiths and I was under the impression you were referring to Num 24 because that was the one you referenced.
My apologies if you took offense. There are a bunch of narrations of a certain event and all are a little different in wording.
My point was that either way, he was referring to being playful and having fun with your spouse within the context of marriage.
You want to make him out to be a perv, I understand your M.O. Move on.
Again you use the bible, after telling me "never mind what the bible says" Yet you say I'm being hypocritical. What Bible are YOU reading? Gn 16:1-16 makes NO mention of the age of Hagar she is referred to as a HANDMAID. IF the word YOUNG was used would YOU insinuate she was 6 or 9yrs old???
If what you're saying is that Hagar and Abraham was NOT married, that would make ISHMAEL A BASTARD. Isn't Ishmael supposedly the prophetic line to Mohammed, and to "the promise." Well thank Allah YOU'RE WRONG yet again, they where married. (Genesis 16:3) "...and gave her(Hagar) to her husband Abram to be HIS WIFE."
I had to leave didn't get a chance answer all your points. I'll respond to the new points you raised later. For now I'll continue where I left off yesterday.
When did I ever argue about the body's capability of sexual REPRODUCTION, I thought you where paying attention. MY argument was concerning capability of a young girl's body for continual sexual INTERCOURSE, not REPRODUCTION.
It happens every single day with our youth in every society and culture. Pull your head out of the sand. They are doing what comes natural to them.
Nonetheless, Islam places guidelines and gets rid of this "experimenting" gibberish. If they want to have intercourse, they'll have to be married first, which is a binding contract that protects her so she is not used and abused like women thrown about so the dude can move on to the next thing.
You are correct Aisha is the only virgin he MARRIED, can you tell me the ages of all the girls his right hand possess and had the right too. So you can speculate one way and I can speculate another. However, when he is asking a man WHY DIDN'T HE MARRY A YOUNG VIRGIN TO FONDLE, not even knowing the man's life, that gives an insight into his preferences.
Whether or not he acted on it is easily answered, because he DID IN FACT MARRY AT LEAST ONE, YOUNG VIRGIN TO FONDLE AND SHE WAS HIS FAVORITE and the FIRST AFTER the death of his very RICH and POWERFUL wife of 25yrs. For 25yrs this rich and powerful wife NEVER accepted being 1 of 11 wives.?????
All of the Prophet's wives were between the ages of 36-50 except for two. He had one, possibly two concubines. One being Maria the Copt. She was a slave who was sent as a gift from Muqawqis, a Byzantine official. There is also dispute about her status (being that Muhammad freed her and then married her etc.). The point is, none of them were virgins which means they were all married before or of age.
You say "Having the right does not imply forcing people to do it against their will."
That was my whole point with the slavery example. Here it is again "It was NOT a law that you HAD TO own slaves, but since it was condoned, by actions and indorsed by words, you had the RIGHT to own." never did I say anyone was FORCED to own slaves. The point is when you have a PERCEIVED right, you could CHOOSE to exercise that right. Which is what many do TODAY because they FOLLOW his example.
So the argument is whether or not he should have perpetuated this 7th century custom that you and I BOTH say "it's an anomaly to begin with" I'll accept that you meant TODAY. Although I believe you worded it wrong, I understand it to be from the very BEGINNING.
Perpetuated? It wasn't even a second thought. Nobody did a double take. It was normal and viewed as socially acceptable in his time. Today, it is not socially acceptable in our society so hence, we must obey the laws of the land. Plain and simple.
You bring up Joseph, Marry and the bible yet you tell me . Never mind what the Quran says about Jesus's birth. Is that what you call fair, when in FACT THE TOPIC IS ABOUT the Koran and ALSO it's prophet. So why can't I use it as reference as you did. But still using the accepted canons of the bible, show me where it says the age of Joseph and Marry when they married, and I'll be happy to respond.
We know that Marry was willing, she was not silent, when told by God. And Joseph was ALSO told by God. It stands the MORAL test of time, and I could argue it with any skeptic because NOWHERE is it stated in the bible that he had sexual intercourse with Marry. So the marriage was for EXACTLY the reason they and GOD claimed it was for.
You amaze me, you totally discounts what academics are saying in articles about "damaging" the reproductive parts of a young girl, because it goes against your point. But have NO problem using them to TRY to bolster your point about Marry and Joseph, knowing fully well it is NOT in the accepted canons. What kind of double standards is this?
God told the Prophet to marry 'Aisha. So it stands the moral test of time.
It doesn't matter if they didn't consummate the marriage. The point is they were married which you seem to have no problems with with decades between them.
"If it(reproduction) were meant to never occur, then she would not be able to until whatever age it is you seem to want." do you really think that statement makes sense? Her VIRGINA which is a MAJOR part of the reproductive system exists long before the other parts are FULLY formed, should it be used sexually too because it's there? No you WAIT
Not because I SEEM TO WANT, but because the body's complete development dictates and demands it, for the safety of the child. The use of many of the her parts BEFORE complete development could cause deformity or be FATAL.
Dumb argument. I am referring to the consummation of two willful participants in a society where it is a cultural norm.
You are on some other planet. We merely perceive the age of adulthood differently. To you be your way and to me be mine. We've both made our cases so move on. This is getting redundant.
You are correct in saying "The period is not the beginning of changes" there are changes occurring before the period and continues for up to SIX years AFTER the period BEFORE the childs' body is FULLY DEVELOPED. At age 9 her cervix is NOT fully developed continual sexual intercourse can cause serious damages. Don't take MY word for it, the scientifically proven evidence is everyway.
Cont. And for you to be the one to first introduce the science of "BIOLOGY 101 DUDE" into this discussion, to then say " If biology got it wrong, that's not my problem." shows the level to which you will go. By saying "if biology got it wrong" after using it to TRY to prove YOUR point, then when the use of it refutes one of your points, you setup yourself as the greatest scientific mind of our times, being able to prove "BIOLOGY 101 DUDE" is wrong. In that case you shouldn't have used it.
LOL, what? I told you many posts ago that I do not deny that there are scientific articles to argue either way and in many cases, the articles are swayed by the cultural norms of our time. So what.
Fact. Females can reproduce after their period.
Fact. Females today, as young as 6th grade are having sex and seen as socially acceptable. Def. not taboo. Deny that.
Fact. You apply your subjectivity to Muhammad and not today's realistic examples, nor the examples in your Bible.
"there are changes occurring before the period and continues for up to SIX years AFTER the period"
So if a female has puberty at the age of 9. Add 6. So are you saying that it's ok for a 15 year old to have sex since she'd be fully developed by then? Do you not see the problem with sticking to an actual number that differs from country to country? Who's right? Who's wrong? It's all relative.
This is all I'm going to say on this point then I'll leave it to the intelligent reader. I have a friend that we say is out numbered in his house, because he has 3 daughters + his wife. One is 10, one is 12 and the last is 13, the 10yr old got her period BEFORE the 12yr old. Should her dolls be taken away now, is she now more mature and responsible than the 12yr old. Now should she knock before entering a room, but the 12yr could enter freely. If that makes sense to you, then I needn't say more.
Makes complete sense. Have you not seen a younger brother act more mature than his older brother? Have you not seen a younger sister be more mature than her older sister?
It makes complete sense to me. Each body is different and each person is different. You can't lump sum them all into one age bracket to become an adult. People are individuals and grow accordingly.
But please, don't say more. I've heard enough of your opinions. Move on.
So which excuse is it, PLEASE pick JUST ONE: 1) he married her "to regulate the absolute minimum age for marriage. 2) it was to cement ties with someone ALREADY considered "actually brothers biologically speaking." 3) Allah suggested it in his dream, or was it Khawla bint Hakim who suggested it, or was it both, who suggested it first Allah or bint Hakim.
If Allah suggested it first why didn't Mohammad do it then, why wait until bint Hakim suggested it? Surely bint Hakim didn,t suggest it BEFORE Allah? Did bint Hakim have the wisdom of Allah, to even suggest it AFTER? WHAT IS GOING ON HERE my head is actually spinning while I'm writing this.
You're all over the place, first you say children "are considered to be adults AFTER the onset of puberty" then go on to claim that EVEN someone 6 or younger is ALSO considered mature enough, because she was already engaged to another man.
The FACT that you can't show not even ONE case, proved what you NOW concede,
that it is ONLY THE GIRLS who are ,USING YOUR OWN WORD, "PURSUED" by much older men. So the maturity that you claimed as the reason, was wrong. The FACT is, it was the MEN who were in CONTROL and PURSUING the children as was the case with the 6yr old Aisha and the OTHER man when she was even younger. So to try to say it was the maturity of the kids failed miserably.
This is why it FAILED, you first claimed that "Men and women were considered adults AFTER the onset of puberty..." Yet some how PRE-pubescent Aisah is consenting to marry Mohammad and another man BEFORE him, when she is even younger. How is she a consenting ADULT when she is not YET CONSIDERED an adult???
You could simply be honest and say their parents consented, because they where NOT YET CONSIDERED ADULTS. But that would mean that Aisha herself didn't consent to the marriage, and that would cast serious doubts about her willingness to engage in sex at 9, in a marriage she herself did not consent to.
This along with the haddith you keep trying to SPIN, as a 9yr old grown woman in control of her wedding day, that was only surprised by her groom showing up early, would show that Aisha was a child that didn't fully understand what was going on, and Islam could not accept that.
NEVER did I imply that Aisha was "completely oblivious", in fact I said she knew very well who Mohammad was, Allah's apostle. What I said is that she WAS NOT IN CONTROL OF THE WHOLE SITUATION, from the marriage contract, to the day of the wedding, and the CONSUMMATION.
Is any bride in complete control of the whole situation? Are you serious? They were rushing to get ready. He arrived earlier than anticipated. Show me one shred of evidence where she was ripped from her parent's arms kicking and screaming. Because that's what children being ripped away from their parents do.
That is your subjective opinion. It was not interpreted that way, ever, and she was excited and happy with her marriage. All factual and historical documents point to a blissful marriage.
You are the one spinning the situation that day. Not me. You are free to interpret however you want, but it is not in line with any of the facts presented and the bride herself.
It's like you are trying to save someone you insist is drowning but they know how to swim just fine. Leave her alone and move on.
Her parents did consent and 'Aisha could have negated the marriage anytime she wanted. She entrusted her parents. They did get into contractual agreements but when the time came, she had the right to deny and hence make the contract null in void. She wasn't forced.
To sincerely view an adoptive child the same as you do your own biological child, is one of the most compassionate things a human being can do for one who has lost their real parents. So I would question the motives of someone who would teach them NOT to do so.
To consider or view someone as "actually brother biologically speaking" as Abu Bakr did of Mohammad, along with your statement "just because we are close" clearly shows they were very close, so there was no need for cementing anything, with a marriage.
So you're saying that Abu Bakr's "mindset" was that he and Mohammad "was actually brothers biologically speaking" and Mohammad was teaching him that, that's not close enough, so I have the legal right to marry your 6yr old daughter. Good lesson, a brother in LAW is closer than "actually brothers biologically speaking" what a lesson. I sure glad I missed THAT class.
They were close, but what better way to cement a relationship that was close, to be even closer? Marriage. And obviously, Abu Bakr being the Prophet's best friend and strongest ally didn't have an issue with it at all.
@ThePeaceMissile: Actually that's simply not true people are much bigger and they enter puberty much earlier and develop much younger than they did in the past.
ConservativeAtheist 1 year ago
h t t p : / / w w w . answering - christianity . com / thai _ girl . h t m
visit this site after removing spaces
farzanatasneem 1 year ago
@ThePeaceMissile
plz show me where in the Bible it says that Miriryam was 12 yrs old when she became impregnated? and it does not say so in the Oxforn dictionary Bible either, it says that when Miriyam was 14, she made a vow to GOD to stay a virgin, maybe you should learn to read, and it does not say when she became impregnated does it? And I really could careless what you believe, it's but a lie anyways
hannahr77 1 year ago
@ThePeaceMissile
Hmm if its true that Yosef where 90 yr old when he married Miriyam then he would be 104 yrs old when YESHUA where 12 right? And it also says that Miriyam was 14 yrs old when she made a vow to GOD to stay a virgin so this means that she was 14-16 when she married Yosef Seems like you left this out my dear lost friend
It will not be without interest to recall here, unreliable though they are, the lengthy stories concerning St. Joseph's marriage
hannahr77 1 year ago
@ThePeaceMissile
plz show me where in the Bible it says that Miriyam got married at 12, and plz a link to those christian theology,
hannahr77 1 year ago
@ThePeaceMissile
so now tell me how tall where muhammad and Aisha? And a girl is still girl regardless of time and age
hannahr77 1 year ago
bro it doesnt matter how old aysha was these christians can talk all they want mary had jesus when she was 10 years old and then she married josaf when she was 11 guess how old josaf was he was 90 at the time geeez these chrisitains gota nerve yet they got a nerve calling our prophet a pedophile ALLAHU EKBER!
rough231 1 year ago
@rough231
And my dear lost friend just where do you find this in the Bible? plz give a Bible verse or scripture where it says that Miriryam was 10 yrs old when she had JESUS; and 11 yrs old when she married Yosef, and that Yosef was 90 yrs old, are you saying that she had sex with Yosef before they married, does the quran also say this, remember we're talking abt Miriryam the mother of JESUS
hannahr77 1 year ago
Oh shut up, you believe that when you do good deeds in life you go to paradise and get a bunch of virgins? Is that what lifes all about, getting ready to have sex with virgins while your wives who have been treated like slaves their whole lives watch you. Your religion concludes that your 'paradise' is about sex, not about being with God, open your eyes.
Sapphira2009 1 year ago
they did not critisize because they would be killed and its in the koran.
montoogom 2 years ago
Islam sucks, and the conservative atheist also sucks..
Deadleader555 2 years ago
there was not a single person who protested at that time coz it was custom.
aisha never repented her marriage,on the contrary she was happy.
abu bakr ayesha's father. never repented.
there were many people who were extremely against muhammad,even those opponents never criticized.because it was their culture. y non muslims in this era have pain in their ass ?
khanpreston1 2 years ago
Comment removed
candlelightmuslimah 2 years ago
is this ya'll problem with Islam? Really? This is it? Are u serious?
candlelightmuslimah 2 years ago
these kaafirs problem is not the marriage of Muhammad pbuh, their problem is Islam. They hate Islam and its teachings.
Their abode is H E L L thats if they continue in their path.
dawah100 2 years ago
dawah100 you have believed in a false religion for all your life and when you perish you will find out it was for nothing but for Satan,pain will be ten fold waiting for you in your paradise satans messenger will be waiting for you with open arms. Remember the devil deceives just like the quran, muslims are the destructors of the world always fighting and killing never truly happy always trying to justify there perverse ways,could your messenger really be the messenger of the devil, yes.
wellhard11 2 years ago
u will find out if the was the messenger for truth sooner ot later. It its late, u'd be torn apart by the angels and in serious torment.
dawah100 2 years ago
the messenger of satan known as mohammed will not save you but condemn you to his paradise where the rivers of wine flow and lust for fornication and sexual pervertion is rife. Death and soul destruction is the true hellfire of the muslim man. you will have excruciating pain of being bumbed by mohammed and his satan followers your cock will be sucked 100 million times by camals that will also piss and shit in your face.
I will pray to the lord to save you.
wellhard11 2 years ago
He is the messenger of God in truth. Rivers of wine that is something you kaafirs would love 2 have, but for you there is boiling water in the hell fire.
It is not fornication, it is a blessing from God in paradise, and u kaafir would wish u would get that.
And ur false religion teach u 2 swear like a pig azz? What kind of false religion is that!
you just proved that ur false religion teach u evil and crap like behaving like ANIMALS.
dawah100 2 years ago
oh rivers of wine have been promised for you in the quran along with fornication read your unholy book and you will see. the boiling water is also there for you to wash yourself clean for when you meet mohamad and his camels.
wellhard11 2 years ago
@dawah100
My dear lost friend yes your right we have a problem with ill-allah, muhammad, islam, the quran and the sooner it disappear the better not only for the sake of us the kaafirs but for the sake of those enslaved ppl in the islamic world
hannahr77 1 year ago
He had young he had old, he had tight he had loose, he had 11 wives he was never satisfied, his cock was always hard non of the 10 could make if flop but Aisha enjoyed it so much she sucked it like a lolly pop.
wellhard11 2 years ago
u kaafir. satan has led u far astray, and u fail to see the truth, blind deaf and dumb, like cattle, nay you are even more astray!
dawah100 2 years ago
believer of satan, i will pray for you to be saved. May god open your hate filled confused eyes, may god open those blocked closed evil ears may god enlighten you to be a better more peaceful person. May god make you a more loving person rather than a cattle that is just following the crowd and doing as satan wanted them do. I will pray for you my friend and save you but also you need to save yourself from mohamed the messenger of satan/dajjal only then will you see the true light.
wellhard11 2 years ago
how can some at the age of 54 marry a 9 year old? thats sick , mohamed was a sick mental man
wellhard11 2 years ago
how can a 90 year old kaafir rape a 1 year old baby?
what is the problem with Muhammad pbuh being married to a woman who reaches the agre of puberty, 1400 years ago, when ur ancestors used to have sex with babies.
use ur dumb brain b4 u end up in hell.
dawah100 2 years ago
Your sick, you need your head examined. How comes all muslims say it was the way things used to be in those days.But when it comes to stoning and chopping hands off or beheading they still do it because they say its part of the religion. Thats how crazy the false religion is countless people have found contridictions in the quran and yet they still refute them. Allah was so great he spoke and convervsed in 1 language he was so great that it took him 3 books to still not correct his errors.
wellhard11 2 years ago
how can someone 54 have sex with a 9 year old :) thats sick. mohammed was a sick mental mad man
wellhard11 2 years ago
Oh yeah shes has her period so shes ready to fuck, hmm??? But what about her breast they are still growing. This is such a stupid way to justify or deem when a female is ready to have a child. What about her hips? Fuck this guy who made the video hes a piece shit. Fuck the coran
BruceIsSoCool 2 years ago
ur ancestors would have sex with babies on those days. He married a girl and did not consumate marriage til she was 9 having reached the age of puberty, 1400 years ago. Wake up b4 it is too late and u end up in the hell fire.
dawah100 2 years ago
read would i typed our bodies haven't change since then
BruceIsSoCool 2 years ago
fat boy go 2 bugger king u fat shit...at that time age was deffen u prick.9years old that time was 16 over u mother fucker..hope u chock on ya buggers faty
mmmmrld 2 years ago
i hope this guy has a daughter and she wants to get married and nailed everyday by some 50 year old guy, such a sweet thought.
BruceGiron 2 years ago
They just want to argue about ANYTHING in Islam.. They are all just stupid ignorant people.. Just because Islam is the fastest growing religion, and it makes SENSE to EVERY Single mind, they attack it with their own stupidities..
ThaiboxerAikido 2 years ago
i agree with you, I have never seen a intelligent person really attack islam, they ALWAYS LACK KNOWLEDGE.
moorejr1400 2 years ago
god that guy is ugly!
muslims l just want to say that l am not anti muslim
you need to understand 1 fact here? this fact is no matter how much you prove or disporve people on your topics!
alot of people just don't like islam! even if they are proved wrong! they will continue to not like islam!
thats 1 thing you need to understand! alot of people just don't like islam
no matter how many people you may or not prove wrong? they still will not like islam!
not being mean or anything
cartmansucks31 2 years ago
true. so true...unfortunately.
McBasher 2 years ago
why don't they like islam???? please answer this
BruceGiron 2 years ago
why? l don't know why! maybe its racial, maybe its just cause they don't like it like l don't like cabbage, who knows! maybe they just don't like it for the sake of not liking it!
cartmansucks31 2 years ago
because they are afraid they cant controll and silence muslims. so they fear that their way of life will be threatened by a better and eventually more excepting way of life(islam). And/or they are too ignorant to seek out knowledge, thus they succumb to the stereotypes placed by the media and grow fearful, and this fear eventually leads to dislike/hate
desolator108 2 years ago
because its a sick violent mad cult there's no truth in the so called religion Mohamed made a philosophy.
wellhard11 2 years ago
biologically speaking, one is considered an adult when he/she reaches puberty. Why should laws define adulthood? It depends on the individual. Puberty is an excellent indicator of adulthood.
MuslimaticMuslimah 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Wow. You are one sick individual.
Inuyashian 2 years ago
wow your one ignorant individual, non educational.you cant acknowledge TIME....you only see modern... i dont know if thats stupidity or just plain ignorance.... seriously go educate yourself....
nevstaromar 2 years ago
It fascinates me when atheists question the prophet's marriage to Aisha at puberty, when they believe we are nothing but hairless monkeys with overgrown brains, and monkeys along with other animals mate as soon as they reach puberty. Their hypocrisy is disgusting.
The only reason this simple marriage is a big deal to them is because their society is riddled with children being raped and molested, even by their parents. A classic case of 'projection' of their own issues on others.
IslamicGoldenAge 3 years ago
Getting married and having sex with a child is disgusting.
Inuyashian 2 years ago
Welcome to NAMBLA's Home Page
The North American Man/Boy Love Association
THATS SICK
LUNDI01 2 years ago
greatly put....thankyou
nevstaromar 2 years ago
Excellent mate... too good... superb
Keep up the good work
soulemotions 3 years ago 2
You seem to be educated and well mannered. How on earth did you end up being a muslim? You people treat your women like shit. All the concepts are ages old and irrelevant today. In all countries wherever Islam is present, there is bloodshed and violence. Even if other communities arent there, then it is shia and sunni. Muslims are not peace lovers. They believe in kill and let kill.
utubesanjay 3 years ago
To know the truth about this subject , please read the best research in 1400 yrs at:
go2cut d o t com/Ab
FictionsBlaster 3 years ago
u said, that i said, that she said, that he said, that they said, that we said, that he said, that she said, when all we said is we love each other, so he says!
billebrock 3 years ago
This information is only for that spoon fed masochistic idiots who know no better-and probably don't even know who their father is!
570-632 Prophet Mohammad.
555-620 Prophet's first wife Khadija passes away, A'isha was 18 years old
620-623 waits 3 years to marry A'isha.
592-692 Asma, A'isha's sister 10 years older.
602-According to her sister's d-o-b, A'isha's was born.
623 - Prophet married A'isha when she was 21YEARS OLD.
Allahu Akbar! You ppl only bring shame upon yourselves
mawnyz1 3 years ago 2
true story,i investigated the dates before too and their claims are false,aisha was way older than 9 yrs old
superakarma 3 years ago
@mawnyz1
liar Aisha was according 2 your own scholars and books 6 when she married dirty old muhammad and 9 when he had sex with her, poor girl and I think that's why she never had any children
hannahr77 1 year ago
@hannahr77
It seems the sleight of printers' busy hands is more appealing to your eyes because it lends a helping hand to your cause of spreading lies, while the concrete historical facts deliberately get pushed aside & denied as the truth!
Oh, Hannah, Umm Maryam was prophet Isah's mother, NOT as you spelt miriryam- get your act together gurlie!
mawnyz1 1 year ago
@mawnyz1
hmm she is Miriyam in hebrew just like her SON is YESHUA, go educate yourself
hannahr77 1 year ago
@hannahr77
Hmm Squatter youre right get educated in Arabic, where it's written as Maryam!
mawnyz1 1 year ago
@mawnyz1
Miriyam is a hebrew name for the Hebrew Mother of Hebrew Messiah YESHUA, why would I get educated in arabic?
hannahr77 1 year ago
@hannahr77 Hebrew Messiah, the anointed one?
A prophet of Allah swt, who performed many miracles but never once did he ever claim to be a god. Though Paul in his foolishly mistaken belief made him become one. See any similarity to the Buddhist philosophy of reincarnation?
Theres yet another claim made by the learned that Isah ibn Maryam was (Jesus) but became Christ after his supposes death- what next?
mawnyz1 1 year ago
@mawnyz1
liar, according to your own hadith she was 6 yrs old and 9 when´muhmmad had sex wih her, he even had a dream fo her as a baby. go read your own book
hannahr77 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Muslim Imam talks about Mohammads Marriage to Aisha when she was Age-6 and Mohammad having Sex with Aisha when she was Age-9. watch this youtube video:
It wont let me post a link to the video so I will send it to you. Mohammad had sex with 9-Year old little Aisha.
ConservativeAtheist 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
He was a pedophile wasn't he. And a rapist and a murderer. Unforunately. Oh well..
Oceanica22 3 years ago
in the world 1400 years ago!!!!!!!!! all over the world ppl even the popes and priests who fuck young BOYS!!! in FUCKIN!!! churches man!
thought it was okay man so for all u ppl who think its wrong come here to my country n c how ppl get married there is nothing wrong
with it even thugh now they hve to be married at 18. long time a go a girl who was not educated need'd support if her family was poor her groom would support her!!!!!!
kisame426 3 years ago
Salaam
Listen, during the period of the prophet (saw), times were different yes. At that time puberty decided your age. there was no such thing as childhood when you hit puberty you were classified as an adult. OKAY. Just because times are different now and society has changed doesnt make what happened then wrong. You've just got to face the facts and the past and MOVE ON islam is perfect. the quran is perfect and Allah is perfect. Study Islam NOT muslims. Peace be to all walaykumasalaam wr wb
IslamicBeauty 3 years ago
A,O,A
jzk very good reply
whoisit1980 3 years ago
Excellent reply brother, Barak allho feek brother
stabby321 3 years ago
You are simply not answering the points this person raised. But replying in an agressive manner.
I think you have an aggression problem, probably the usual muslim frustrations of personal failure.
Regarding your furious assertion that women are "ready" to give birth when they start bleeding, they are not.
We have come so far in the last 1,500 years. You, on the other hand, rely totally on a book written 1,500 years ago by a deviant.
Rejection of knowledge: isn't that a high crime?
IamScarface 3 years ago
I answered every single one of his lame points. You opted to turn away. I provided fact, no opinion. I provided sources. He didn't provide a damn thing.
Secondly, you're retarded. Only 100 years ago, the minimum age of consent was 10 in this country. Actually, listen to my video instead of trying to one up me.
As for aggression problem. Sure. I only treat others as they treat me or my faith. I responded in the same tone and manner as he did. Go troll some other page.
BonsaiSky 3 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
MAKE A VIDEO ABOUT ( NAMBLA) Home Page
The North American Man/Boy Love Association
LUNDI01 2 years ago
@IamScarface
When we try to divide children from adults, we place their maturity according to age and then make a dividing line where most of the children will be considered adult.
People below 12 years of age are considered as that of paediatric age currently, but there are people who are still immature beyond 12 and there are some who attain maturity earlier.
farzanatasneem 1 year ago
@IamScarface
womhist . alexanderstreet . com /teacher/aoc . htm
Read woman history in America after removing spaces
Campaign to Raise the Legal Age of Consent, 1885-1914
American reformers were shocked to discover that the laws of most states set the age of consent at the age of ten or twelve, and in one state, Delaware, the age of consent was only seven
That was before 1920 very near isn't it?!!
farzanatasneem 1 year ago
watch?v=tXaw9UZlK_I
9hanem 3 years ago
The psychological development of a child is the vital consideration before adults begin targeting them for sex. This is the prime reason for pedophilia to be illegal.
If menstruation was the criterion, then adult women who don't menstruate wouldn't be allowed to have sex.
Although children with hormonal disorders have begun menstruation at aged 3, you should not seduce them, but allow them to mature emotionally and psychologically and make informed choices about their life partners.
jontwest 3 years ago
she used to help treat the wounded soldiers and look after them, doesnt that she is mature enuf to be a wife? and maturing at the age of 9 is normal as far as i know.
stabby321 3 years ago
Think about it. Would you like to have been married to a 53 yr-old woman when you were 6, or 9? You know it would be unfair. As Muslim writer Mr.Ziauddin Sardar says:
"Muhammad was only a man. What made him human was that he could make mistakes and he was a product of his own time. But in reality, Muslims have fetishised the Prophet so much that all his human qualities have evaporated; his time and context have been transformed into eternal time."
Not everything he did needs to be copied.
jontwest 3 years ago
Thats wat the video said IN HIS TIME it was acceptable other wise the pagan arabs would have used it against him at least.
stabby321 3 years ago
So I'm assuming you agree that we need to speak out *against* the practice of child marriage now.
jontwest 3 years ago
1400years ago it was ok and perfectly normal according to their ethics and tradition, today it isnt ok...so basically if u actually watched the video u would understand.
stabby321 3 years ago
No, it wasn't "ok" 1400 years ago. Pedophilia is never ok. It might have been accepted as normal -as it is today among pedophiles - but it's not ok. Rape, murder and pillaging were seen as normal 1000s of yrs ago, but we rightfully scorn this behavior. We perhaps shouldn't be harsh in judging primitive peoples who did these things, but there have ALWAYS been people throughout history who have risen above the barbaric norm, and we degrade their memory if we give the "ok" to the worst practices.
jontwest 3 years ago
It was ok during that time it was like that all over the world, due to low life expectancy. If it was wrong the pagan arabs would have been the first to point it out and even ppl around the world at the time. As for ur other accusations it seems u have learnt them in ur church coz they r baseless. Learning about islam there is like reading a movie review done by a blind guy, thats how stupid it is.
stabby321 3 years ago
Comment removed
lobiviak 3 years ago
Comment removed
lobiviak 3 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Welcome to NAMBLA's Home Page
The North American Man/Boy Love Association
TELL THAT TO THEM
LUNDI01 2 years ago
BonsaiSky you taught this pig a valuables lesson way to go !
iFlag12 3 years ago
stfu loser
Nellomuzik 3 years ago
No religion forbids more than one wife.Jews christians and others all had more than one wife. Politicians stopped it. Prophet solomon and many.Qu'ran is the only holy book than put conditions for having more than one wife.
samiwiz 3 years ago
wow this guy BonsaiSky is the BOMB.Way to go!
monsteraddict88542 3 years ago 5
I think that those who think that the scientific method is the means for detecting whether a scientific claim is true or false can concur that when a healthy female reaches her menstruational cycle, she is able to sexually reproduce, and for the religious, that's God saying she could sexually reproduce.
mrdhikrbeads 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
mohammed was sick and so are you.
catfrenzy 3 years ago
I appreciate that. I have never been to stickam, but will check it out. I was blocked because I questioned islamandfriends reasoning. Basically he said that aggressive actions can be taken in order to create peace. This reasoning can lead down a dangerous road. I have never been banned so quickly for such a benign comment. There was no attack on anyone. Just seemed like he was hiding from reality and didn't want to hear any opposition. Strange for someone so confident in their positions.
GooberTheAtheist2 3 years ago
Islamandfriends is afraid of discussion. He complains yokeup blocks and deletes comments. Well so does he. I expect to be blocked for this comment as well, regardless of it's benign nature.
GooberTheAtheist2 3 years ago
Islamandfriends is anything but afraid of discussion. If you want to debate him or simply partake in civil discourse, visit the IslamTalk chat room in Stickam. He's always in there. Most of us Muslims here on YT are spend quite a bit of time there.
Furthermore, try not assuming or generalizing. I'll only block you and your comments if you attack me personally or merely piss me off with your tone. You've done neither. Feel free to comment as long as you keep it civil.
Peace.
BonsaiSky 3 years ago
The problem that most people see with Mohammad was not whether the marriage was consummated at what are or which time. Its just a universally accepted norm that a 50+yr old man shouldn't have sex with a 9yr old, fit to be his granddaughter.This is a perversion regardless of time and age.The other issue is that this man tends to be the most perfect man according to ur religion, now that what I call is a huge problem.Being a prophet that he was shouldn't have allowed such a deviant practice!
kay459 3 years ago
did you block
JesusShines 3 years ago
very well explained
blueangel2324 3 years ago 2
2 0f 2)Only in USA we do not understand this concept! IN USA we have kids killing kids selling drugs stealing cars at 12 or even younger driving cars caring for their younger siblings! Killing their parents making plans to kill. They are capable of it! We as the adults are not doing a good job raising them properly and teaching them what is right and wrong! We can not judge the whole world same as usa!
pinabarryscott 3 years ago 3
1 of 2) Everyone has to understand life expectancy 1150 years ago was not like now. What was it 30years 20years of age? People were different then. They lived differently! Look at other countries kids are more mature at a much younger age.Even presently in most cultures the age of maturity is 12 or 14. That is now not 1150 years ago.
pinabarryscott 3 years ago 2
If however you would like to continue the dicussion, please I your welcome to reply, I'll show the outmost respect and respond. It has been a pleasure.
myacetube 3 years ago
The pleasure has been all mine. We've exhausted our views on this particular issue but feel free to keep in touch or comment on other vids in the future.
Take care.
BonsaiSky 3 years ago
I will respect your wishes, and end this, as U have been very gracious, and I am a guess. People will make up their own mind, N those who have already done so will continue in that path. If the path leads us all to the GOD who created us then I can only HOPE in his compassion, mercy, and forgiveness he will forgive us. I don't believe HOPE is enough, we all must try our best to SEARCH out the RIGHT PATH with an open mind and spirit.
Peace and may GOD BLESS YOU ALL. BonsaiSki, I Thank you, Peace
myacetube 3 years ago
I will not impose myself on you any longer.
myacetube 3 years ago
I meant you ASKED me NOT to bring up the bible
myacetube 3 years ago
We are WAY off topic, you as me NOT to bring up the bible.
myacetube 3 years ago
The marriage was sarah's ideal, because she didn't have FAITH that GOD would do as he PROMISED. Which was to give her and Abraham a son, which he did eventually did do with the miracle birth of Issac. As a result of their LACK OF FAITH they were punished, NOT for the marriage itself. Abraham had other wives after Sarah and Hagar, and was NOT punished for them. So it was not the marriage.
myacetube 3 years ago
This marriage was not sanctioned by, and as you know it caused a great deal of trouble for Abraham's family. Multiple marriages were allowed by God at that time to increase the human population. This was later changed by Jesus, as he had the authority to do.
myacetube 3 years ago
Abraham was a Prophet, no? Is this the action of a Prophet? Do you reject him? Where did Jesus abrogate this law? Where does Jesus say, "marry only one" like the Quran?
In actuality, Jesus says in Matthew 5:17, "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill."
BonsaiSky 3 years ago
That's why he was punished with what his family went through. He suffered, sarah suffered, and certainly Hagar and Ishmael suffered. Abraham had flaws and did sin, he gave sin offerings to God for forgiveness. That's why the true example is the sinless one JESUS. No such behavior is in him.
myacetube 3 years ago
But you said "multiple marriages were allowed by God at that time". So why would God punish Abraham for something He permitted or "allowed" him to do?
Furthermore, if you argue that Jesus is God, then it was Jesus who gave Abraham that permission and hence, made it lawful.
BonsaiSky 3 years ago
and it was JESUS who change it.
myacetube 3 years ago
In the future may I suggest before you make a claim that this haddith does not say something first be sure it's true. like wise when claiming something is in the bible, do the same, be sure. Abraham and Hagar were married and NO age is mention for Hagar just Abraham.
myacetube 3 years ago
I don,t want to make him out to be anything, the appearance already exsist. because he as a prophet is held to a higher standard. as such what everyone else was doing at the time THE( NORM)can not be used as an excuse.
myacetube 3 years ago
i'm sorry I do accept you apology, I reposted b4 I got you're response.
myacetube 3 years ago
Again, You amaze me. You state that "the one thing you can't stand is someone who can't admit when they're wrong" So you WRONGLY accuse me saying "What is unbelievable is the FACT you substituted "play" with "fondle". That Hadith says nothing about fondling." Instead of APOLOGIZING, when you're OBVIOUSLY wrong, you correct my typo. Now after condemning me for the use of the word, you read it with your own eyes, you don't condemn BUKHARI, instead you now try to explain away. No answer?
myacetube 3 years ago
stfu bonsai what r u good at besides talkin?
riorio23 3 years ago
@riorio23
At least I'm good at something unlike SOME people who troll my pages. Get a camera and MAN UP.
BonsaiSky 3 years ago
You say "This entire string is a moot point." really, so for young virgins SILENCE means YES, when someone is asking her to marry him. But for a man SILENCE+A GLANCE+LOWERING HIS GAZE means NO. Now I got it. What if the young virgin is silent and lowers HER HEAD what does that mean, how about if she closes her eyes? Moot, I think not.
myacetube 3 years ago
M O O O O O O O O O O T. I think so.
These are etiquettes; mannerisms. She doesn't get married without her guardian present. She doesn't have to say a thing. Her guardian will.
Drop it. Agree to disagree. This may be the longest freakin' comment debate I've ever had. Can you get a camera? So much faster.
BonsaiSky 3 years ago
You amaze me. You state that "the one thing you can't stand is someone who can't admit when they're wrong" So you WRONGLY accuse me saying "What is unbelievable is the FACT you substituted "play" with "fondle". That Hadith says nothing about fondling." Instead of APOLOGIZING, when you're OBVIOUSLY wrong, you correct my typo. Now after condemning me for the use of the word, you read it with your own eyes, you don't condemn BUKHARI, instead you now try to explain away.
myacetube 3 years ago
Do you now see why, when we read words in YOUR Haddiths such as: YOUNG VIRGIN TO FONDLE or PLAY with, the picture of a CHILD comes to mind?
myacetube 3 years ago
Like I said, I know your M.O. It is simply not historically accurate. It is a tactic that is fairly new.
Look, that is what you have in your own head. It is your own sickness. It is the disease in your own heart. Containers only spill what they have in them. I see it as pure and you view it as child molestation even though he never mentioned an age or child in that Hadith. You did. You need to get yourself check out. It's you, not him.
BonsaiSky 3 years ago
You never brought up Hadith Num 17. There are thousands of Hadiths and I was under the impression you were referring to Num 24 because that was the one you referenced.
My apologies if you took offense. There are a bunch of narrations of a certain event and all are a little different in wording.
My point was that either way, he was referring to being playful and having fun with your spouse within the context of marriage.
You want to make him out to be a perv, I understand your M.O. Move on.
BonsaiSky 3 years ago
Again you use the bible, after telling me "never mind what the bible says" Yet you say I'm being hypocritical. What Bible are YOU reading? Gn 16:1-16 makes NO mention of the age of Hagar she is referred to as a HANDMAID. IF the word YOUNG was used would YOU insinuate she was 6 or 9yrs old???
myacetube 3 years ago
Cont.
If what you're saying is that Hagar and Abraham was NOT married, that would make ISHMAEL A BASTARD. Isn't Ishmael supposedly the prophetic line to Mohammed, and to "the promise." Well thank Allah YOU'RE WRONG yet again, they where married. (Genesis 16:3) "...and gave her(Hagar) to her husband Abram to be HIS WIFE."
myacetube 3 years ago
Perfect! So you then obviously have no problem with a Polygynous marriage.
Thanks.
BonsaiSky 3 years ago
I had to leave didn't get a chance answer all your points. I'll respond to the new points you raised later. For now I'll continue where I left off yesterday.
myacetube 3 years ago
Look, let's end this. We've put forth every possible angle to this issue. Let's let others make their own decision.
Just don't reply with 20 replies for the LOVE OF GOD. :)
I'll let you have the last say (keep it to one post please) since you are a guest on my page.
Peace.
BonsaiSky 3 years ago
When did I ever argue about the body's capability of sexual REPRODUCTION, I thought you where paying attention. MY argument was concerning capability of a young girl's body for continual sexual INTERCOURSE, not REPRODUCTION.
myacetube 3 years ago
It happens every single day with our youth in every society and culture. Pull your head out of the sand. They are doing what comes natural to them.
Nonetheless, Islam places guidelines and gets rid of this "experimenting" gibberish. If they want to have intercourse, they'll have to be married first, which is a binding contract that protects her so she is not used and abused like women thrown about so the dude can move on to the next thing.
BonsaiSky 3 years ago
You are correct Aisha is the only virgin he MARRIED, can you tell me the ages of all the girls his right hand possess and had the right too. So you can speculate one way and I can speculate another. However, when he is asking a man WHY DIDN'T HE MARRY A YOUNG VIRGIN TO FONDLE, not even knowing the man's life, that gives an insight into his preferences.
myacetube 3 years ago
Cont.
Whether or not he acted on it is easily answered, because he DID IN FACT MARRY AT LEAST ONE, YOUNG VIRGIN TO FONDLE AND SHE WAS HIS FAVORITE and the FIRST AFTER the death of his very RICH and POWERFUL wife of 25yrs. For 25yrs this rich and powerful wife NEVER accepted being 1 of 11 wives.?????
myacetube 3 years ago
All of the Prophet's wives were between the ages of 36-50 except for two. He had one, possibly two concubines. One being Maria the Copt. She was a slave who was sent as a gift from Muqawqis, a Byzantine official. There is also dispute about her status (being that Muhammad freed her and then married her etc.). The point is, none of them were virgins which means they were all married before or of age.
BonsaiSky 3 years ago
You say "Having the right does not imply forcing people to do it against their will."
That was my whole point with the slavery example. Here it is again "It was NOT a law that you HAD TO own slaves, but since it was condoned, by actions and indorsed by words, you had the RIGHT to own." never did I say anyone was FORCED to own slaves. The point is when you have a PERCEIVED right, you could CHOOSE to exercise that right. Which is what many do TODAY because they FOLLOW his example.
myacetube 3 years ago
So the argument is whether or not he should have perpetuated this 7th century custom that you and I BOTH say "it's an anomaly to begin with" I'll accept that you meant TODAY. Although I believe you worded it wrong, I understand it to be from the very BEGINNING.
myacetube 3 years ago
Perpetuated? It wasn't even a second thought. Nobody did a double take. It was normal and viewed as socially acceptable in his time. Today, it is not socially acceptable in our society so hence, we must obey the laws of the land. Plain and simple.
Seriously, end it.
BonsaiSky 3 years ago
You bring up Joseph, Marry and the bible yet you tell me . Never mind what the Quran says about Jesus's birth. Is that what you call fair, when in FACT THE TOPIC IS ABOUT the Koran and ALSO it's prophet. So why can't I use it as reference as you did. But still using the accepted canons of the bible, show me where it says the age of Joseph and Marry when they married, and I'll be happy to respond.
myacetube 3 years ago
CONT.
We know that Marry was willing, she was not silent, when told by God. And Joseph was ALSO told by God. It stands the MORAL test of time, and I could argue it with any skeptic because NOWHERE is it stated in the bible that he had sexual intercourse with Marry. So the marriage was for EXACTLY the reason they and GOD claimed it was for.
myacetube 3 years ago
You amaze me, you totally discounts what academics are saying in articles about "damaging" the reproductive parts of a young girl, because it goes against your point. But have NO problem using them to TRY to bolster your point about Marry and Joseph, knowing fully well it is NOT in the accepted canons. What kind of double standards is this?
myacetube 3 years ago
What do you say about Prophet Abraham and his maid servant in the Bible? How about David? Solomon?
You are full of contradictions. My view is not a contradiction, its a contra distinction. My view go inline with my Holy Book. Yours, do not.
See the difference?
BonsaiSky 3 years ago
God told the Prophet to marry 'Aisha. So it stands the moral test of time.
It doesn't matter if they didn't consummate the marriage. The point is they were married which you seem to have no problems with with decades between them.
BonsaiSky 3 years ago
"If it(reproduction) were meant to never occur, then she would not be able to until whatever age it is you seem to want." do you really think that statement makes sense? Her VIRGINA which is a MAJOR part of the reproductive system exists long before the other parts are FULLY formed, should it be used sexually too because it's there? No you WAIT
myacetube 3 years ago
cont.
Not because I SEEM TO WANT, but because the body's complete development dictates and demands it, for the safety of the child. The use of many of the her parts BEFORE complete development could cause deformity or be FATAL.
myacetube 3 years ago
Dumb argument. I am referring to the consummation of two willful participants in a society where it is a cultural norm.
You are on some other planet. We merely perceive the age of adulthood differently. To you be your way and to me be mine. We've both made our cases so move on. This is getting redundant.
BonsaiSky 3 years ago
You are correct in saying "The period is not the beginning of changes" there are changes occurring before the period and continues for up to SIX years AFTER the period BEFORE the childs' body is FULLY DEVELOPED. At age 9 her cervix is NOT fully developed continual sexual intercourse can cause serious damages. Don't take MY word for it, the scientifically proven evidence is everyway.
myacetube 3 years ago
Cont. And for you to be the one to first introduce the science of "BIOLOGY 101 DUDE" into this discussion, to then say " If biology got it wrong, that's not my problem." shows the level to which you will go. By saying "if biology got it wrong" after using it to TRY to prove YOUR point, then when the use of it refutes one of your points, you setup yourself as the greatest scientific mind of our times, being able to prove "BIOLOGY 101 DUDE" is wrong. In that case you shouldn't have used it.
myacetube 3 years ago
LOL, what? I told you many posts ago that I do not deny that there are scientific articles to argue either way and in many cases, the articles are swayed by the cultural norms of our time. So what.
Fact. Females can reproduce after their period.
Fact. Females today, as young as 6th grade are having sex and seen as socially acceptable. Def. not taboo. Deny that.
Fact. You apply your subjectivity to Muhammad and not today's realistic examples, nor the examples in your Bible.
BonsaiSky 3 years ago
"there are changes occurring before the period and continues for up to SIX years AFTER the period"
So if a female has puberty at the age of 9. Add 6. So are you saying that it's ok for a 15 year old to have sex since she'd be fully developed by then? Do you not see the problem with sticking to an actual number that differs from country to country? Who's right? Who's wrong? It's all relative.
BonsaiSky 3 years ago
This is all I'm going to say on this point then I'll leave it to the intelligent reader. I have a friend that we say is out numbered in his house, because he has 3 daughters + his wife. One is 10, one is 12 and the last is 13, the 10yr old got her period BEFORE the 12yr old. Should her dolls be taken away now, is she now more mature and responsible than the 12yr old. Now should she knock before entering a room, but the 12yr could enter freely. If that makes sense to you, then I needn't say more.
myacetube 3 years ago
Makes complete sense. Have you not seen a younger brother act more mature than his older brother? Have you not seen a younger sister be more mature than her older sister?
It makes complete sense to me. Each body is different and each person is different. You can't lump sum them all into one age bracket to become an adult. People are individuals and grow accordingly.
But please, don't say more. I've heard enough of your opinions. Move on.
BonsaiSky 3 years ago
So which excuse is it, PLEASE pick JUST ONE: 1) he married her "to regulate the absolute minimum age for marriage. 2) it was to cement ties with someone ALREADY considered "actually brothers biologically speaking." 3) Allah suggested it in his dream, or was it Khawla bint Hakim who suggested it, or was it both, who suggested it first Allah or bint Hakim.
myacetube 3 years ago
Cont.
If Allah suggested it first why didn't Mohammad do it then, why wait until bint Hakim suggested it? Surely bint Hakim didn,t suggest it BEFORE Allah? Did bint Hakim have the wisdom of Allah, to even suggest it AFTER? WHAT IS GOING ON HERE my head is actually spinning while I'm writing this.
myacetube 3 years ago
I can tell your head is spinning because you're not making much sense. Re: your multiple choice, I select D. All of the above.
There is something in Islam called Qadar. Read up on it. It will explain a lot and hopefully stop you from asking silly questions.
BonsaiSky 3 years ago
You're all over the place, first you say children "are considered to be adults AFTER the onset of puberty" then go on to claim that EVEN someone 6 or younger is ALSO considered mature enough, because she was already engaged to another man.
myacetube 3 years ago
Cont.
The FACT that you can't show not even ONE case, proved what you NOW concede,
that it is ONLY THE GIRLS who are ,USING YOUR OWN WORD, "PURSUED" by much older men. So the maturity that you claimed as the reason, was wrong. The FACT is, it was the MEN who were in CONTROL and PURSUING the children as was the case with the 6yr old Aisha and the OTHER man when she was even younger. So to try to say it was the maturity of the kids failed miserably.
myacetube 3 years ago
Cont.
This is why it FAILED, you first claimed that "Men and women were considered adults AFTER the onset of puberty..." Yet some how PRE-pubescent Aisah is consenting to marry Mohammad and another man BEFORE him, when she is even younger. How is she a consenting ADULT when she is not YET CONSIDERED an adult???
myacetube 3 years ago
Cont.
You could simply be honest and say their parents consented, because they where NOT YET CONSIDERED ADULTS. But that would mean that Aisha herself didn't consent to the marriage, and that would cast serious doubts about her willingness to engage in sex at 9, in a marriage she herself did not consent to.
myacetube 3 years ago
Cont.
This along with the haddith you keep trying to SPIN, as a 9yr old grown woman in control of her wedding day, that was only surprised by her groom showing up early, would show that Aisha was a child that didn't fully understand what was going on, and Islam could not accept that.
myacetube 3 years ago
NEVER did I imply that Aisha was "completely oblivious", in fact I said she knew very well who Mohammad was, Allah's apostle. What I said is that she WAS NOT IN CONTROL OF THE WHOLE SITUATION, from the marriage contract, to the day of the wedding, and the CONSUMMATION.
myacetube 3 years ago
Is any bride in complete control of the whole situation? Are you serious? They were rushing to get ready. He arrived earlier than anticipated. Show me one shred of evidence where she was ripped from her parent's arms kicking and screaming. Because that's what children being ripped away from their parents do.
Get over it.
BonsaiSky 3 years ago
That is your subjective opinion. It was not interpreted that way, ever, and she was excited and happy with her marriage. All factual and historical documents point to a blissful marriage.
You are the one spinning the situation that day. Not me. You are free to interpret however you want, but it is not in line with any of the facts presented and the bride herself.
It's like you are trying to save someone you insist is drowning but they know how to swim just fine. Leave her alone and move on.
BonsaiSky 3 years ago
Her parents did consent and 'Aisha could have negated the marriage anytime she wanted. She entrusted her parents. They did get into contractual agreements but when the time came, she had the right to deny and hence make the contract null in void. She wasn't forced.
BonsaiSky 3 years ago
To sincerely view an adoptive child the same as you do your own biological child, is one of the most compassionate things a human being can do for one who has lost their real parents. So I would question the motives of someone who would teach them NOT to do so.
myacetube 3 years ago
To consider or view someone as "actually brother biologically speaking" as Abu Bakr did of Mohammad, along with your statement "just because we are close" clearly shows they were very close, so there was no need for cementing anything, with a marriage.
myacetube 3 years ago
Cont.
So you're saying that Abu Bakr's "mindset" was that he and Mohammad "was actually brothers biologically speaking" and Mohammad was teaching him that, that's not close enough, so I have the legal right to marry your 6yr old daughter. Good lesson, a brother in LAW is closer than "actually brothers biologically speaking" what a lesson. I sure glad I missed THAT class.
myacetube 3 years ago
Red herring.
BonsaiSky 3 years ago
They were close, but what better way to cement a relationship that was close, to be even closer? Marriage. And obviously, Abu Bakr being the Prophet's best friend and strongest ally didn't have an issue with it at all.
BonsaiSky 3 years ago