Baptism "due to" Forgiveness or "unto" Forgiveness?

[skoobalon]

We are baptized "for" (i.e. because of) the remission of sins, not in order to bring about the forgiveness of sins.

[deliveringit]

@skoobalon Let's see, Peter said, "Repent" AND "be baptized". You say that is "because" of the forgiveness of sins. So, we are to repent "because of" the forgiveness of sins that is already had? Really. No, we repent BEFORE forgiveness UNTO forgiveness. Therefore, we are baptized "unto/eis" forgiveness as well, since Peter linked them and used only one "eis" after them. Repent and be baptized "eis/unto" forgiveness. Right there. You just don't care what the bible says.

[skoobalon]

"Covenant Kids" tend to be Hell-raisers, just like kids that are forced to grow up in Roman Catholic formalism.

[skoobalon]

A baby in the Roman Catholic Church is baptized. By some superstitious hokus-pokus, that baby is tidied up for eternity. This is not just the practice of the Catholic church, but sadly, any paedo-baptist assembly. That baby, who was just pronounced saved through Priest-craft, WILL grow up and live like the Devil, and may very-well die a rebel to the Gospel. I've known MANY Catholics who act like sons and daughters of the Devil. But they cling to that Certificate, and that work done by others.

[deliveringit]

@skoobalon Now you are foaming at the mouth. I prefer to be Bible-based. I'm not interested in your drivel. Make an actual argument or you will be blocked.

[skoobalon]

@deliveringit

I'm not foaming. I'm just calling a spade a spade. This isn't a popularity contest. You post a video that teaches blasphemy, and I respond. I don't know why you're so grumpy.

[skoobalon]

@deliveringit

You say, "I prefer to be Bible-based."

No you don't.

You prefer to be tradition-based.

[deliveringit]

@skoobalon Let's see, my video is chock full of Biblical evidence, and you have presented NO Biblical evidence for "due to" or "because of" Nor did you touch Acts 22 where Paul's sins were not forgiven until after he was baptized, etc. But you yet again make a bald, unsubstantiated statement that I prefer to be tradition based. Its obvious that YOU are the one clinging to your traditions not caring what the actual biblical evidence is.

[skoobalon]

@deliveringit

You say, "Make an actual argument or you will be blocked."

Let me get this straight. You have the freedom to post all these videos, the content of which flies in the face of Biblical truth, and I don't have the freedom to rebut any blasphemy that's taught on your channel? I have responded to your videos--content-for-content. Unpleasant as it is, I feel the burden to bring the truth to light.

If you want to censor me, like Holy Papa's did in the Dark Ages, go right ahead.

[deliveringit]

@skoobalon But you have not responded "content for content" You have made numerous unsubstantiated bald statements and have completely avoided the Biblical evidence presented. The best you have is that there are some "miscellaneous" translations of eis. OK, like "at" for example. That is one of the miscellaneous translations of eis -- but "at" means towards or unto some thing. It does not mean "due to" or "because" of that thing.

[skoobalon]

Baptism is not a sacrament. it's an ordinance. There's a huge difference between these two words. A sacrament is work through which grace is infused or imparted, and without the work of the sacrament there is no grace. An ordinance is an observance of grace already given. it's an act of obedience and a testimony to the Church and the world of what God has already done in the life of a true believer, but it in no way imparts grace.

...otherwise grace is no more grace. (Rom 11:6).

[deliveringit]

@skoobalon If grace is "already given" in the case of baptism as you say, then why was St. Paul not forgiven his sins yet until he received baptism as the video pointed out? Did you not watch the video?

[skoobalon]

@deliveringit

Yes. I watched the whole video. Goodness gracious. I guess the thief on the cross is not saved because he didn't keep one of your sacraments.

[deliveringit]

@skoobalon No one is arguing that baptism was in force during the old testament. But in the new testament, Christ set-up Baptism as the sacrament of initial justification. "Unless you are born of WATER and the Holy Ghost, you CANNOT enter the Kingdom of Heaven." "He who believes AND is baptized will be saved." He did not say, "He who believes will be saved and then be baptized." Peter did not say "Repent for forgiveness of sins and then be baptized due to that forgiveness of sins." No!

[skoobalon]

AV - into 573, to 281, unto 207, for 140, in 138, on 58, toward 29, against 26, misc 321; 1773.

Note the "misc 321".

The usage or meaning of the word is determined by its context. And so, the Priest sloshes a fistful of water on a baby's forehead and pronounces him saved? Baptismal regeneration is not the truth. And it doesn't matter if Martin Luther taught the same thing as the Romish Church--still wrong. We are saved by grace through faith, and THAT not of ourselves. It's the gift of God.

[deliveringit]

@skoobalon The best you can come up with is "misc 321"??? Sorry, but Eis ALWAYS means towards something -- never "due to" something. Its simple grammar.  Be baptized eis/unto the forgiveness of sins. Bible records it, I believe it, argument over.

[skoobalon]

@deliveringit

Yes. "Misc 321" is the best Bibleworks 8 can come up with. That's telling you that there are MANY OTHER ways to translate the word "eis", other than the 8 frequent translations of the word. There are 321 cases in which that word has been translated in a variety of different ways.

My point is, your dogmatic approach (i.e. "due to, or "unto") is a war of words that holds no credence. In other words, you can pick a translation of the word to fit your doctrine, and that's foolish.

[deliveringit]

@skoobalon No, I am saying that eis ALWAYS means "unto", "into" or "at" (one of those misc translations) as in "they struck at his head" meaning that the head was the objective the action was going towards. You see, eis ALWAYS has a movement forward and never is "due to" something in the past. If you think that is wrong, then I would like to see your evidence. But if you have none, then you are not arguing -- you are instead throwing darts. Also, deal with context: REPENT and be baptized...

[skoobalon]

@deliveringit

You say, "Be baptized eis/unto the forgiveness of sins.Bible records it,I believe it,argument over."

"for the remission of sins" (Act 2:38).

You would like the argument to be over. And I'm sure after you block me, you will gleefully have the last word, just like Bloody Mary had the last word after those heretics were burned at the stake.

But, unfortunately for you, the argument is NOT over.

In this war of words I prefer "eis" to be translated "for".

See how easy that is?

[skoobalon]

@skoobalon

And in case you're wondering what my "actual argument" is, "for" has the same meaning as "because of". I'm in good company with the word usage that the KJ translators used here in Acts 2:38. But I'm not as dogmatic as you. Since there are a myriad of ways the word "eis" can be translated into English, I can't be as dogmatic as you--certainly not to the point of creating a video about it.

[deliveringit]

@skoobalon Sorry, but you have no argument since you have not quoted a passage in the bible where "eis" definitely means "because of" Don't bother looking, since other Prots have tried ot find such ocurences and couldn't. THAT was the point of the video which is why I question if you actually viewed the whole thing or not. Until then, the Biblical proof is that "eis" means "unto" or "into" etc.

[deliveringit]

@skoobalon The argument has actually not even begun since you have brought no argument to the table except childish "venting" against the Catholic Church comprised of un-substanitated bald statements. You refuse to engage the biblical evidence presented in the video and thus are wasting our time.

[skoobalon]

Who's St. Joseph?

[JoBernard12oxen]

Water baptism is when we die unto ourselves and we are reborn to live for Christ; it's an action which confirms our decision to die unto ourselves and a statement where in we humble ourselves in submission to God to show we no longer decide our actions for ourselves but that we allow the holy spirit of Christ to live in and through us by learning the word of God and by being born in baptism into the family of God we exchange our life which is now dead for a new life in which we live in Christ.

[RockyBalboa211]

Babies are cute, I'm babysitting my cousin, and she's crying as I watch this!

[sk8412c]

watch?v=ZMDIz1F7HiA -- a short just-for-fun video but it does give the basic reasoning behind Catholic baptism with quotes from the catechism - and music which kinda goes with it if you understand Spanish - enjoy :-)

[Skyethur]

Protestantism are so ignorant in the eyes of Catholics they think they know better than Catholics while Catholics explaining the whole thing about the truth.. Protestantism doesn't even traced back to Christ time and somehow skipped from 33AD to 1600AD..

[FTWbiology]

Haven't had a video from you in a long time. Good video :]

[stuart20017]

great vid, I hope the kids get in a better mood.