Hawker 800XP - Aspen Colorado Landing - Pilot's View

[1ELTIBURONN]

wowwwww SO  PROFESIONAL,,,,,NICE VID,,,NICE PLANE,,NICE LANDING..

[4fifty8]

Looks like we got ourselves a couple hotshots here!! - how about you put your shoulder harness on when you're legally required to do so. If you want I could have someone call you from your local FSDO with the FARs reference for you if you have any questions on that.

You wouldn't get away with your Texas cowboy style of communicating if you were flying in the airlines. Completely unprofessional. Captain should just keeps his hands on the yoke when flying - use your words when you want gear up!

[FlyFast310]

Very professional, great vid

[Trainboy64]

Great video.. I fly a 900Xp and we do it exactly the same in Australia. Just been moved to the the company's Global XRS and will be landing at ASPEN in the next 12 months. Safe flying pals.

[sheepdogbarking]

You guys are as cool as the music you listen to while flying! Thanks for the flight.

[esmithjm]

I have enjoyed the discussion, thanks for being a good sport.

[kchris3060]

Doesn't matter. I stand corrected on the muffs being WOW. It is still not necessary and actually detrimental in hot ambient conditions to have the switches on during taxi.

[esmithjm]

(h) Each occupant of a seat equipped with a shoulder harness or with a combined safety belt and shoulder harness must have the shoulder harness or combined safety belt and shoulder harness properly secured about that occupant during takeoff and landing, except that a shoulder harness that is not combined with a safety belt may be unfastened if the occupant cannot perform the required duties with the shoulder harness fastened. What is it that he cannot reach??

[esmithjm]

You are getting stall, stick pusher, and staatic plates confused with rudder bias heat, since rudder bias would be most critical on takeoff, wouldn't it be stupid to wire the heat through the squat switch. JUST CHECK THE AFM!!

[kchris3060]

One last comment on the pitot vane switches as they relate to the rudder bias muffs. The muff heaters are wired through the right squat switch, the rudder bias muffs are not heated until the pitot vane switches are selected on and 6 seconds after weight off wheels. Won't do the rudder bias muffs any good on the ground anyhow. I forgot about that one. Thanks anyway for your imput.

[kchris3060]

Your reference is to the windshield/screen heat dipshit. It is selected on immediately after engine start to meet birdstrike requirements. The very next item is pitot amps check on/check/off. If you look in the ice protection section, it clearly states, pitot vane heats on for taxi, only if 5c and below in visible moisture. Two years ago, this was recomended below 10c. If you are selecting this on after engine start in hot climates, you are damaging your heat probes.

[esmithjm]

Please check the AFM again as to when to switch on "HEATERS" , it's on after start, no BS there is a reason for this.

[kchris3060]

It saddens me that there are folks like you out there flying airplanes, assuming thats what you do. I dont claim to know it all, and I am the first to admit that I make mistakes. Lots of em. We all do every single day. The difference is I try to learn from mine. It has been my experience that people who criticize as you have both done here on this tread, are usually the ones who need the most help. Id love to look over your shoulder in the cockpit one day. Cheers.

[kchris3060]

Shoulder harnesses are to be worn for takeoff and landing unless, it interferes with your duties in the cockpit, it turns out that Jim cannot reach all that he needs to reach with it on so he chooses not to wear it. No harm, no foul. Its his head that goes into the instrument panel. Im not even going to address the airbrake comment because it was simply moronic! it doesnt warrent a response.

[kchris3060]

In that case, the limitation is for your angle vanes and pitot tubes, not the rudder bias "valves". The only GPWS function that can be silenced in our aircraft is the "to low flaps" call in the event of a less than flaps 45 landing. Terrain cannot be silenced. There is a reason for this...see Bombardier flight test gear up landing accident report on serial number 003 Global Express, then come talk to me about silencing bells and whistles. Those guys were test pilots for crying out loud.

[kchris3060]

The comments are also mostly inaccurate. You boys should go back and read your flight manual. The pitot vane switches are indeed the switches that direct power to the rudder bias MUFFS not valves. This heat protection is mainly or extended periods at altitude. There is no risk of freezing the RB valves during taxi out on a dry warm day such as was depicted in the video. The pitot vane swiches are and always have been line up items, unless 10c or below in visible moisture.

[esmithjm]

Surely your SOP requires shoulder harness for takeoff and landing? Proper airspeed is no more important at ASE than MIA.

[kchris3060]

I had to watch this back to be sure, but short of the "cowboy" accents (which by the way have no bearing on safety), this flight was conducted extremely safe and appeared to be very professional. There were some missed checklist items on the video, but that was due to the editing process of the video. Our call on the approach check which was edited out is steering panel "clear" "wheel centered". I would like to thank esmithjm and cmattha for your comments although not very constructive.

[esmithjm]

This one is great compared to one here titled Hawker 700 white plains departure.

[pittstraining]

If you guys need to reassure each other every second, go ahead. Maybe one day you guys will become real living, breathing, THINKING aviators like us, and not just robots that only know one way to accomplish your goal. Just keep engaging your autopilot and watch the world go by.

[pittstraining]

As a technique (based on our SOP's, training, line checks, etc) we call airspeed deviations from a target, not actual indicated airspeeds. This keeps the chatter to a minimum during a critical phase such as landing. Once the proper airspeed is reached, if there is no deviation (it is important to maintain the proper airspeed - especially in places like Aspen) there is no call. Once again, it reduces needless chatter.

[pittstraining]

As far as the altitude and airspeed calls, you have once again missed the mark. By not cancelling the EGPWS (even if we could), we get altitude readouts to the ground (three hundred, two hundred, one hundred, fifty, forty, thirty, etc...), Plus this was a visual approach, not an ILS to minimums. I knew how high we were - I was LOOKING at the runway, and I do not need an altimeter (or radar altimeter or a copilot) to tell me when to flare.

[pittstraining]

We always look at the tiller, too. As far as cycling the airbrakes, they can be cycled 1 or 100 times. It really doesn't matter. If they stick on the second (or 90th) time, I will be glad that it happened on the ground. You are arguing technique, not procedure. Each pilot has his own technique to achieve the same goal.

[pittstraining]

In our airplane, the EPGWS cannot be cancelled without pulling a breaker. In some it can, in this particular hawker, it cannot. I have flown many hawkers with all the avionics options including the Honeywell and the ProLine 21. In some cases, there is an overide switch (or button), but not in all airplanes.

[pittstraining]

As far as the pitot heat goes, it is a lineup item unless taxiing in visible moisture at close to or below freezing temps (a quick look at your checklist will confirm this). Also, the rudder bias check is performed as a before takeoff item. So if a rudder bias valve is frozen, you would see it there (before the pitot heat is turned on, btw.).

[pittstraining]

It's really too bad that you guys do not have anything better to do than to offer your negative opinions (as uninformed as they are). Unlike you guys, I'm still busy flying for a living, so I have to be quick here. Unfortunately, like many ididots that jump to conclusions without having all the background info, you missed a lot of the flight (startup, taxi, etc) due to the editing proces.

[cmattha]

Another thing you'll pick up with experience is to make sure the tiller is centered after you put the gear down.

[cmattha]

Do you just not wear the shoulder harness on legs with no passengers on board? Also, did you know you can cancel that terrain warning? I know it sounds cool though. Why do you cycle the air brakes twice , you trying to get them stuck open just in case they weren't already? Pretty sloppy cockpit all in all but you'll get there.

[esmithjm]

Just a few items not covered by MSFS, pitot/vane heat should be switched on immediately after engine start so that rudder bias strut valves will be thawed prior to takeoff, read the checklist items and either touch or at least look at the item, you do know the terrain warning can be cancelled?, one speed, no altitude calls on final, tiller alignment not checked.

[pittstraining]

A few hours on Micrsoft Flight Simulator probably doens't qualify you as an expert in this field...

[esmithjm]

Perfect for how NOT to run a cockpit.

[whtdude13]

awesome vid