The way a free market works is so elegant and graceful, it boggles my mind that it can even work...how ironic is it that trying to direct things when it comes to economics makes them LESS effective, and LESS efficient?
It's the most counter-intuitive notion I've ever encountered.
I think once this whole notion of socializing things is overcome, just like it was once thought that the sun revolves around the earth, the world will become a much better place.
@IMaximusDMI Did those people look particularly rich to you in those private clinics? You have the choice of choosing your doctor, just like you have the choice of where you buy your food, which is another necessity like health care.
@kommisar It has nothing to do with wealth. Go to a cvs, walgreens, or even a walmart, and take a look at the people who go to the little private clinics springing up all over places like that; most of them are middle, lower middle, lower class, because that's how affordable is. Those clinics alone compete for business, and so people can afford it. Imagine if EVERYONE competed.
People would be able to afford healthcare, and NOT because of insurance!
@kommisar I don't see how you really have choice in "choosing your doctor". Technically if you don't have money you will go to one in your close vicinity because lack of means of transportation. And I've never had the pleasure to try before you buy so to speak.
I've always had to spend $50 to $100 just to SEE the doctor. People can't go around making a bunch of doctor appointments to find what's right for them. People's life savings can disappear within a day visit.
@IMaximusDMI The same could be said about grocery shopping, having your dry cleaning done, buying clothes or anything else that requires you to leave your house. Seriously, are you this much of a fucking idiot? "I don't have a choice because I can't afford to go anywhere beyond walking distance." That's unbelievably stupid. If that's your mentality, forget the doctor. Just let yourself succumb to death because you've obviously failed at life; it's darwinism at work.
@IMaximusDMI Wow, didn't they just show another clip of people going to doctors that give cheap appointments with no insurance? Let me ask you something: How do you find a good plumber, mechanic, interior decorator or anyone else without using their services first? It's called research, and it's not that hard to do if you put some effort in. I can look up reviews on a restaurant before eating there. Shit, use some common sense and quit being such a moron.
@kommisar Sites I've come across require a paid subscription to read user submitted reviews of doctors. And if you think that those websites don't profit from doctor's paying for better reviews to get more patients then you shouldn't be talking to me about common sense. Reviews can be padded by anybody and they are, so don't kid yourself.
You can find many mechanics, pumbers, interior decorators that make house calls just to give you free estimates. So please.
@IMaximusDMI Right. So in other words, the whole system is rigged so that you have no other option other than to go to the doctor that is closest to you. You can't look up reviews, check into the doctors' work history, seek alternative treatment or even take a bus.
...
Yeah, I call bullshit. You're just being a moron.
Yes, all those professionals will give you free estimates. So will doctors. Now go away.
@IMaximusDMI How many people have absolutlely NO money? Very few.
And if they don't, they can go to a charity. Hospitals all over America run huge charities that take care of people who CAN'T pay. Bet you won't hear Michael Moore talking about that.
I would know, my mom works in one, taking care of cancer kids everyday.
And I'll tell you one thing right now, it ain't socialized.
@IMaximusDMI I'm sure even the poor can afford to save up a few dollars and spend them to go to a clinic instead of on booze.
And hell even if they have NO money and have an emergency, the ambulance will take care of them. People are never let down. It's never been that way and it never will be, and it was never a problem until insurance, thanks to the government, became huge.
People who work for health have an instinctive drive to help their fellow man. That's why they chose the job.
@Spjungen People don't become doctors JUST because they wanna make money. Some part of them must want to be noble and help people, and that's precisely what they do. The fact of the matter is they simply don't just turn people down. It's helped by the fact that EMERGENCIES generally aren't common; people don't TRY to get hurt so they can go to the doctor.
Healthcare's never been a problem until recently, when insurance started working hand in hand with government.
I just finished watching all 6 videos in this series... and I have to say, it's SO FULL of half-assed logic and free-market propaganda that I wish I could reach in and slap Stossel's mustache off his face while telling him how much of a willfully naive dipshit he is. Be warned, people, this report is WEAK... I mean... they're talking to CATO INSTITUTE about DOCTORS' practices in relation to for-profit healthcare?? That's like asking Exxon if oil is a clean fuel.
@IngeniousEpithet Yes, and your argument completely destroys Stossel;s argument using ad hominum, and declaring it is wrong, which defeats it because... uhhhh...
Of course he talks to people who work for the Cato institute, they research this stuff and argue on behalf on free market options. What, should he exclude them for your satisfaction? Should people who work for for-profit health care not get a voice in the debate on for-profit healthcare?
Wrong. You're not using ad HOMINEM correctly. Cato institute, once again, is NOT the proper organization to give such lengthy air-time to on a topic such as universal health care. OF COURSE they're going to rail against it, even if they have to cherry-pick, lie, or obfuscate (which they do). Reality is, we're the ONLY first-world country without universal health-care, we're also one of the most ENDEMIC surveillance/police-states in the world. Universal HC does not bring despotism.
@IngeniousEpithet Fine, then John Stossel was wrong for inviting any advocate of Universal healthcare as well. Michael Moore should not have been alllowed any time.Who should he invite to advocate against UHC? No one? Also, if you argue lengthy, then look up socrites paradox. Should he not bring in people who know what they are talking about? If so, should he not be able to argue his side at all? Also, your two descriptions of america have no relation to one another.
Advocates FOR universal health care don't HAVE a conflict of interest like Cato institute (and the industries they represent) does. How do you not understand this? WHEN MASS SUMS OF PRIVATE MONEY ARE INVOLVED, YOU DON'T GIVE THAT MUCH AIR-TIME TO THOSE WHO STAND TO LOSE IT BY SWITCHING TO AN ALTERNATIVE. Stossel OBVIOUSLY swallowed their BS willingly and gave his half-assed/smug pseudo-journalistic account of universal health-care without regard to true journalism/science/medicine.
My two descriptions of America have no relation to one another? Not sure what you mean by that. It's a fact that we are essentially the only first-world country without universal health care. It's also a fact that we are one of the most surveilled and policed societies on the planet. This flies in the face of claims by those of you who rail AGAINST universal health care who say it'll bring in a police/nanny state... well WE ALREADY HAVE ONE without it. UHC won't make it worse either.
ok so you basically get rid of the concept of "free" universal health care or free care at the point of use. deductibles or co-pays as part of cost sharing seems very reasonable I think the part that is attractive with UHC is people want to be covered for major illness and have access. The current system we have the problem of access is the inflationary costs that get pushed onto those lacking any kind of coverage.
I personally don't see the overwhelming problems you've asserted that comes along with having UHC. Doctors going on strike, doctors stealing, etc. I assume anyone can make anecdotal accusations about any one system, but the numbers likely wouldn't suggest causation from a UHC system, or even an epidemic of such. I've had amazing service with UHC and I've never had to stress about not having enough money to go to the doctors or ER. I couldn't imagine having that burden as well.
Michael Moore is an idiot traitor. I'd like to drop his ass in Cuba when he has a potentially life threatening illness, and see if he comes out alive. And he doesn't get to cherry pick an use the elitist hospital, he has to use the clinic that the normal Cuban uses. You know he'd never do it in a million years.
In regards to this topic, I think that maybe a hybrid system of Government-run and Privately-run health care would be best. That way, for those who choose not to wait, they have the option of paying an additional fee for receiving prompt services. However, if I had to choose, I wouldn't hesitate in choosing Government-run care. It's "priority first", so I don't mind racing through the ER when I have a serious problem, as well as waiting a few hours for less serious ones to let others ahead.
@DarkHawk123 Yeah, poor Romney. He, like a lot of the Republican candidates running, have a lot of credentials. But the flip-flop thing is detrimental. There's nothing wrong with changing your position based on emerging research and continuous learning. However, Romney gets caught up in "what's most popular today" to secure frontrunner status, trying to be a moderate to appeal to the general electorate. Might seem like a smart idea, but you do end up looking like you have no convictions.
Moore was arguing that our capitalist (blah, blah, blah) healthcare system doesn't provide everyone coverage, and many people get screwed.
Stossel completely side stepped that point and instead pointed out that, if it were implemented differently, it could be very cost effective.
Cost effectiveness and universal access are two very different virtues, and everyone does have access to Canada's system, such as it is. Maybe the answer is in the middle- I'm shocked too.
Of course, state should provide for emergencies and for the really poor (no Xbox to sell) and it would do it with easy without these hyped up prices.
What socialists mean by access is "equality" - no one should receive better treatment than other. What it does in the end is, everyone gets equally poor treatment...except gov officials, VIPs and those who bribe it. I experienced completely socialized medicine...bribe, bribe, bribe or you die.
Socialism? You do everyone not on the radical right rolls their eyes when you say that right? We're not talking about instituting collective farms, we're talking about giving more citizens access to health insurance. Take Canada's system for example. There is a public health system that does some things really well, and a private system working right beside it. Both get along fine.
In fact I'd wager both systems are better off for having the other take a share of the load.
In Canada private clinics work outside of law as I understood the documentary.
I wanted to point out that UHC with non-profit insurance "companies" is disaster. It slowly drowns in bureaucracy, inefficiency and corruption. More balanced approach may take longer to bankrupt, that's all. Problem with combining public option and private one is, it drives prices up, bc you have a strong monopoly in town. You'd need to regulate drug prices too to prevent price surge-destroying progress.
@MrDanielBowman74 Then regulate drug prices, Wow that was easy. And a strong monopoly will drive prices down as other insurers will be forced to compete with the monopoly. But whatever, as long as people aren't dying of poverty.
Plus people skipping out of on their bills for small things are part of what is driving up costs. If we help for preventative care then we avoid more expensive problems later,
Basically, its cheaper for society to pay for removing a poor man's mole than for his chemo.
@darkhawk123 If we regulate drug prices companies will spend less money on research. As for the poor man's mole, its cheapest if we don't pay for it at all.
@darkhawk123 I value individual rights. Forcing one man to provide for another's existence walks all over both. A person who is deemed unfit to provide for himself is less than human & also incapable of making certain decisions, such as what to eat, weather or not he has any dangerous hobbies, should he have kids, choice of medicine (example Marijuana). The man who is forced to support him is merely a slave. I want none of either.
@BillyJoe1305 Wow. That was a great treatise on individual rights. Call me old fashioned, bu I value good medical results. When people can't afford to go to the doctor, they don't go until they have no choice but to go. Then they die, or don't pay. That burden gets passed on to everyone else. If we provided insurance for that person and they got treated sooner then I'd be willing to risk the lower self-esteem for lower medical costs and a healthier nation. I'm practical that way.
@BillyJoe1305 Also you used "weather" when I think you meant "whether."
And slave seems incredibly dramatic don't you think? Its hardly forced servitude with constant whipping, its- at worst- the government setting up exchanges and forcing you to buy health insurance. Not exactly the same as being kidnapped stripped of your culture and name and forced to work on a plantation as chattle.
@darkhawk123 Good slaves don't get whipped. Therefore the people who do as they are told get to live as nice happy house slaves. Yet if I decide not to pay my taxes they forcibly remove me from my home, strip me naked ,possibly cut my hair, give me the clothes they want me to wear & throw me in a cage with violent men. This seems quite similar to what you described. On top of that I'm not entirely sure you're completely aware of more than one historical instance of slavery.
@BillyJoe1305 You know what. I am done. You sir, are clearly an idiot. You just defended slavery to try to make a point about the evils about having more affordable health insurance. I don't know what your particular gripe with the world is, but my advise is to get over it. Obama is going to be reelected, the Affordable Care Act is law, and you will still just be a crotchety old jerk on YouTube.
And slavery wasn't super fun for all those slaves in Egypt, or during the Roman Empire- jackhole.
@darkhawk123 Comparing slavery to the threat of violent action against a man who refuses to give his earnings to another man is not defending it. I did, however, compare people like you to the people Malcolm X referred to as "house niggers" & Uncle Toms. Although I personally think Malcolm X was given to much credit as a civil rights leader I mostly agree with him on this subject.
@BillyJoe1305 Malcolm X had a lot to say about a health care reform bill that was passed decades after his death did he?
BillyJoe, I love you. You make the other side of this debate look dumber just by typing. Seriously, keep it up. Also it wasn't me who flagged your comment as spam, I just laughed when it happened.
By the way, I don't know who gave you the impression that tax payers shouldn't have to pay for things they don't approve of.
@darkhawk123 No he had a lot to say about people who were willing to give up their freedom because their master always saw they were provided for & didn't abuse them specifically ("not to much'"). I used the slavery parallel to apply this to modern relationships with the government. Which actually, he drew the parallel apply it to completely different actions the government was taking. So although not about healthcare a parallel was already drawn between government & slave master.
@darkhawk123 2 things to ad to my last comment. First to correct my mistake, part of my comment reads, "he drew the parallel apply it to completely different actions..." This should read, "He drew the parallel to apply it to people defending completely different actions..."
2nd none of my comments appear to be flagged.
On another topic, could you explain to me how deregulation killed the auto industry, the nuclear power industry (or how it'd be more expensive than public utilities)
@BillyJoe1305 Really from this last comment, if you scroll up the one that begins "Comparing slavery to the threat of violent action..." is flagged from my viewpoint, and the one above that has been removed. Maybe its different for you because its your comment?
Sometimes deregulation works, sometimes it doesn't but the health insurance industry is not over-regulated. Its problems come from being under-regulated. We tend to view health care as one big industry and that's a mistake of perception.
@darkhawk123 That may be, YouTube keeps changing things. I must disagree with you on the lack of regulation of health insurance though. There already to many rules on what healthcare must cover, as well as some states regulating who they must accept & for how much. The 400lb man with a smoking habit & heart condition needs charged more than everybody else, otherwise everyone pays more. He should be aloud to get to 400lbs & smoke. His decisions should earn his consequences, not mine.
@BillyJoe1305 "Allowed" not "aloud" homonyms are tricky.
Different states have different regulations, maybe where you are there is lots of government red tape but here. States are often very lax. And as labor unions have declined businesses have reduced benefits, either offering HMOs or no health coverage at all.
Citizens need to stand up and assert their power as a collective, and government allows them to do that. It allows the citizens to unite against larger powers, like business.
@darkhawk123 & who watches the watchdog? Beyond that, what if a business said you can receive this much extra pay or this benefit, I suppose you want them to be forced to hand over both? Maybe get the nation to the level Detroit was at where the average line worker got equivalent of $75.00 an hour right up until, "poof" for no apparent reason the jobs just disappeared? & what happens when the collective starts telling individual what to do, instead of just businesses?
@BillyJoe1305 Lets not lose focus. Because while its apparent we don't agree about health insurance reform, we're having what has finally become an interesting discussion. But if we have to start talking about the auto industry and their... issues we'll never leave our keyboards.
@darkhawk123 I'd also like to point out that everything I mentioned is either already written into Obamacare, or planned to be added on if the law isn't overturned. I also don't think mandatory insurance will be cheaper than the current model. Demand will go up, prices will to. I mean I have to pay taxes every year & they aren't getting smaller.
@BillyJoe1305 I'm glad you know what they're "planning." Did you hear about the FEMA interment camps? Or the death panels? That's whats got me scared.
Come on. The states are running the exchanges, if you don't like the way things are done call your state rep. Its federalism all the way, just the way the founders would have liked. The federal government comes up with a big idea, create a loose framework, the individual states implement it. Fed. Gov. is totally hands off.
@darkhawk123 Yes, because saying they plan to add more regulations to an already bloated law is the same as saying they're about to round us & shoot us. It isn't like they pass regulatory laws all the time.
@BillyJoe1305 Actually they do. "They" are called government. Government's purpose is to pass and enforce laws. And no, its not the same. If your local city council adds a yield sign at the end of the street it isn't "slavery." If the Federal govt says you have to have health insurance, and they'll help you pay for it, that isn't lining you up and executing you.
Lets lower the drama a bit. Its just health insurance.
@darkhawk123You mean to say that you think no action taken by us governments violates anybody's rights & you don't think they should be stopped because its for the good of the collective?
@BillyJoe1305 No that's not what I mean to say, comrade. What I mean to say is, someone telling you to stop yelling, you're in a library is "technically" violating your freedom of speech. But that is very far removed from being lined up and shot because you are a member of a different political party.
You seem to think the Affordable Care Act is just another in long line of steps to the Communist regime Glenn Beck's been warning us about. It isn't. Don't compare this to slavery or murder.
@darkhawk123 Not if it's their library, and what I think it does is give the government more reason to be allowed to tell us what we can eat & drink or what medicine we should take. I also think its one more way they force people to support others.
@BillyJoe1305 Happy New Year. So its okay for the people who run a public library to tell you how you can act in the library. But the people elected to run the country have no business making rules about how you conduct yourself in the country? You don't see the cognitive dissonance there? Democrats won, Republicans lost. Your going to get some liberal laws for a little bit. This is by the way a Republican idea from the 90s so I don't know why conservatives are mad. We're doing it your way.
@darkhawk123 My statement specifically said if the library belonged to the person telling you to be quiet they could do whatever they want. Furthermore there is a difference between rules that apply inside a building & rules they can come into your home & enforce. As for this being a Republican Idea it is only the Neocons, the further right & more mainstream Republican position has always been against it. In fact Reagan had some strong words on it.
@BillyJoe1305, Okay, 1. NeoCons are not liberal Republicans. 2. I am done. It is a new year and I shed myself of this Youtube argument. We disagree, I think that is apparent. We are both (sometimes all three) pretty committed to our viewpoints. I think further discussion is pretty unlikely to change minds. I hope you vote for your favorite candidate come the primaries. I hope Ron Paul wins the nomination- at least he believes what he says,
@darkhawk123 True calamity insurance is no longer attainable. Some things states have required insurance companies to cover things including preventive care & check ups, even birth control & psychotherapy have made the list. Insurance that covers cancer & car accidents alongside paying a Dr for annual check ups is affordable. Insurance that covers Suzie's birth control, Billy's mommy issues or the trips to the doctor's office every time a hypochondriac sneezes just isn't as cheap.
@darkhawk123 I know three replies is a lot, but I wish to discuss the original side of the deregulation topic, Pharmaceuticals. Drugs are often delayed far beyond necessary before they can be approved reach the market & even after that it can take years, because nobody wishes to be the agent who approved a drug that had unknown side effects. This sounds like erring on the side of caution, but countless lives are lost waiting for these to hit the market. Less regulation may help.
@BillyJoe1305 Wow good point. I guess I should throw in the towel... oh wait...
Vioxx was an arthritis drug pulled from the market in 2004 because it caused heart attack and stroke. Thalidomide treated morning sickness, but sadly caused birth defects was pulled in the 1960s. Rezulin was intended to treat diabetes, an FDA doctor tried to warn about side effects, but he was fired, 390 died of liver failure. Duract was an FDA approved pain killer pulled after 68 deaths. The process is too HARD??
@darkhawk123 Yes drugs have caused deaths, but how many have died waiting to get medicine that existed, but wasn't allowed to be on the shelf. 22,000 died over the course of 2 years (85-87) because streptokinase (for blood-flow in a heart attack) hadn't been approved 7,000 deaths per year because the FDA hasn't approved the Ambu cardio pump. So yeah, it is too hard to get a drug approved.
@darkhawk123 Beyond that, your post on slavery implied (whether intentional or not) that I was making a racist statement by comparing the trade & sale of African tribesman to other events in history; by laying those specific events as requirements for slavery.
@darkhawk123 As for the other man I was more concerned about his actual rights than ow he views himself. If society is to pay for his existence & expenses society has a right to tell him what risky behaviors, or behaviors at all, he may participate in. So no more bacon & eggs, no skydiving & only our preferred medications.
You are however correct about my spelling of "whether."
What is valuable on forced charity? I have nothing against solidarity but UHC made by Obama won't work. Once A collects money from B,C,D and decides to whom and how much it will redistribute it is always a disaster. Even worse when A actually gives most of it to Z who hasn't contributed at all. Z and B,C,D will spend the money like crazy unless you control it with huge bureaucratic overhead, making you collect even more $. Public option is always a disaster.
What is valuable on forced charity? I have nothing against solidarity but UHC made by Obama won't work. Once A collects money from B,C,D and decides to whom and how much it will redistribute it is always a disaster. Even worse when A actually gives most of it to Z who hasn't contributed at all. Z and B,C,D will spend the money like crazy unless you control it with huge bureaucratic overhead, making you collect even more $. Public option is always a disaster.
If you attempt to regulate it will lead to expensive bureaucracy and corruption. Monopolies always drive prices up...because they just don't have to care...you have to buy the shyt from them. Public ownership always results in higher prices and lower quality.
@MrDanielBowman74 That is just not true. Deregulation of major industries has led inexorably to higher prices in almost all sectors. Public utilities are much more cost effective than their free market counterparts. Deregulation led to chaos in the banking system for example.
I believe you are mistaken. Competition is crucial for lowering the prices, higher quality and new inventions. Once you regulate you restrict access/competition, you bend the prices based on bureaucratic "reasoning". Banking system is actually one big socialistic scam :-) , where central banks - bureaucrats dictate the interest rates. If it was free enterprise for real you won't have/need any bail outs.
i choose a health care savings account. wow, it's so logical and ez.
YOU JUST HAVE TO TAKE ALL THE WHINING AND BITCHING AND MOANING AND EMPATHY OUT OF IT.
Micheal Moore knew stossel had him on facts, that's why he condiscindingly laughed at john... hahahahaha... Your so 1300th century.... i love this... hahahah.
I think the U.S. is a great country, but they're hardly progressive on this issue. If every other industrial nation on this entire planet embraces Universal Healthcare, and yours doesn't, perhaps you should re-evaluate. Ask how many people would be willing to give up their Universal Health Care for a privatized system. They'd laugh in your face. Who'd want to go back to that? Even Mitt Romney did it in HIS state. And HE'S a Conservative. If it makes sense, it shouldn't be politically devisive.
Just wondering if you watched the entire episode? In one of the earlier vids that's exactly what they are doing in Canada. It's against the law, but those private run places still operate. Universal HC is not as simple as it may appear. Let me just throw this at you. True, other countries have UHC, but they have small militaries. The US tax payer pretty much pays to subsidies other countries defenses. Those countries can then spend the tax money on their people/HC system.
Actually former communist countries had 100% UHC and most still have not reformed it yet...no profit insurance companies, minimal direct payments etc. It is DISASTER. It is bankrupt, doctors strike for bigger salary, corruption from patients and drug companies is enormous, doctors steal, bribes, bribes, bribes, very bad care.
!!!West is moving in the wrong direction. You need less socialized medicine. Even combination is bad...gov involvement drives prices sky high!!!
who the hell is advocating that the gym should be government/ insurance company run? he's making some good points but some utterly stupid ones in the same breath
So the documetary says humans are selfish arseholes who only care for themselves and doctors only became doctors to make profit. The whole system depends on profit and scientists working for the goverment do not care to become more efficient. Loool.
At these times I am glad to live in Austria. Free entrance to a hospital only little money for prescription and unemployment benefit. The USA is only good at making war and making more debts. I am sorry for the intelligent one of you.
@WasGibtsLeute I pulled my 19foot inboard ski boat with my v8 F150 to the lake the other day and remembered my trip to norther europe. Many of us load 4-6 people up into spacious four door diesels and pull 40 foot campers. Can you do that in Austria? LOL. Or do you load up in your peugot and wonder why your population numbers do so poorly? It aint perfect, but at least we don't need gubment to take care of our health. Community health, communist health, how many people move to your country?LOL
Wait until your system (police state; patriot act) breaks completely down. Your country is onwned by China.
People come to your country because gov. lies to everybody: from rags to riches.
The first people fled from Europe to the "USA". Your ancestors are European except for the children of the Native Indians.
Only desperated AND badly educated people - African American and Chinese forced - flee to you. Sciences base on "our" Nazis, no own culture so far. Democracy comes from the Greeks. LOOL
@WasGibtsLeute We are a republic of a constitution, with democratic parts. How can you talk, we have cities with more people than your country. My state is way bigger than your whole country, we are like 100 austrias worth of land. We have diversity living here, not just visiting like Austria. Our states are still fairly diverse, I will admit people here seem to be more and more dependant on corporatecommunism, like China, but damn it we have a chance. Nobody goes to Austria for care.
It is qualitiy not quantity what counts. The foreigners who are coming for medical treatment are riches. YOU do not get the same treatment as THEY do. Diversity? You have put Native Americans into reservations. And what's about discrimination of the black people and Mexican? You are fighting six wars currently and what's about Abu Grahib? Now that's what you call "republic of a constitution"? In Austria are no food stamps and nobody has to sleep on the streets.
@WasGibtsLeute Nobody would live sleeping on the streets its too damn cold there! :) Look our big govt. has been making us all look bad for a while now, and I tell you even worse, the people just let it happen. What happens when you have all these cool ass toys, ya get preoccupied and forget you have a govt. full of snakes that need watching. It aint perfect, I do admit when I got back to the US with all the CNN at the airports, and fat people, not all of us have been currupted yet.
@WasGibtsLeute That is funny though, my family left the Germany /Austria area during Catherine the great period because they were tired of the govt.. came here to cheap farmground, German communities/churches that spoke German and thank god they did. I have seen our differences, and I choose here too. Many of our good professors and Dr.s are foreign, they come here to be paid much better, and have better living standards. I take it you have never been here? You should visit, rent a big pickup.
There must be two USA inside the USA. I only see homeless and jobless people on TV who need food stamps to survive. In the meanwhile the riches geht more and more rich. If I could afford it I would probably come but not to the east coast.
@WasGibtsLeute Come to Tx. Up the middle from Tx to Minnesota are lots of N. Europeans and its cheap compared to Europe.I am employed and doing well, the economy here seems fine, started four years ago. Too much bs in the media, just ignore them when it comes to this country. 0.66$/liter (i think i converted right) for gas, and thats high here. Hotels for 39$/night or @ 27euros. Good job with KTM, dissappointed Austria can whoop us in off road motorcycle production, we ride Jap or Austrian :(
Okay, copetition is lower prices. But often lower treatment. The USA makes more and more debts many people have six credit cards and they really think that capitalism is the best in the world. looool.
They think there is only USA or China. They next bubble awaits you.
Cheap doctors in shopping malls with pizzeria like pricelists and healthcare insurance companies that deny healthcare to ONLY 3% of the people that paid them money and leaving out those high risk people that just cost to much is the right way to build our healthcare system in the new era. John really put Michael Moore in his place. I think in the future we should also privitize the air. It's ourageous to let all these cheapskates breathing for free ):(
Competition is great John, but what about those who cannot afford those prices? You leave the poorest in your country still with few options. At least in Canada I get care and don't have to worry. You are one sad country who thinks competition is the only answer to anything - no wonder your country caused our last major recession and is currently on the verge of bankruptcy.
@robertrutherford1959 Coming from the mobile home capitol of the world......LOL Ever been to the USA? I would need phycotherapy on your tab if I had to move to sorry ass Canada. Church is for those that cant' afford healthcare, OPTIONAL charity. I guess when you are too fucking selfish to give, your govt. has to take it from you. How many high rollers of the world fly to Canada for healthcare? Oh, they don't, wonder why? LOL
Oh, and do not think that I claim that my f...g country is perfect at all. I am not a patriot. I prefer freedom and a certain spirit not a certain country.
@robertrutherford1959 We have this thing called charity. No not government charity but real charity. We have groups that go out of there way to help people pay for stuff like that.
This has some good points about private enterprise creating competition and from that lower prices.
The big thing to take note here is that Moore was trying to drill home the insurance company argument. How they deny sick (sometimes life threatened) people with technicalities and fine print
@tiberiius Absolutely, it is retarded how companies deny people coverage for conditions they didn't know about, but you do have to understand the logic behind why they would investigate it. And in the case of the cancerous tumor in his leg, he had seen a doctor about it the day before; that's kinda fishy. Although I agree we have a lot of problems with health insurance companies, I've yet to hear a solution other than the one mentioned in this video. Clearly it's the people more than the system.
@redguard What's the 21st century POV? That poor people are poor because "the man" forced poverty on them? Not every poor person is irresponsible, but most irresponsible people end up poor.
@defgill == even though it has been proven time and time again that the Natural Laws of supply and demand Increases quality (based on what the people want and or need) and lowers cost (because if one place is too high of cost fewer people will buy). this is what it will be if it is FREE. it hasnt been free. what do you think the drug war is REALLY about. heath it claims it for itself. yet they use mostly Illegal drugs to produce legal drug??? how is that logical at all?
@defgill it doesnt. it only promote fewer people to make more money without the relevant in put from the people themselves when the government takes it out of the FREE Market
@speakoffreedom kul. but i was talking about the price explsion that will accur when people think healthcare is free and overwhelm the system causing shortage of service and massive price increases
@H1TMANactual I guess we have different philosophies. I feel great knowing I'm helping less fortunate people be able to see a doctor with my taxes. You see health care as a privilege, whereas perhaps every other industrial country sees it as a right.
Wow, people in this video are cheering for paying $40 per doctors' visit? Yeesh, I'm Canadian... I couldn't imagine having to pay a dime for a doctors' appointment. That would be so strange...
@Rockafella9 Bravo the illusion of free. Nothing in this world is free. You paid for the doctor's visit in your tax. You know what else you paid for? Your neighbor's visit to the doctor b/c he has scratch on his balls. And if Moore was Canadian you'd pay for his fatass clogged arteries too ahahhaa
In the words of the great Milton Friedman "No one will spend your money as carefully as you"
@Rockafella9 Becasue they don't have bills to pay for and other people working with them to pay for. No they should do all that for free. Heck I think ever one should just work for free. Work 40 hours a day and don't make any money.
Elective surgery doesn't not count. That's why it is called elective surgery it is not required to sustain life. I agree with the Dr. Berry. This is how a doctor should do things, but most don't. But I do think the Government needs to ensure that insurance company's can't disqualify you on preexisting conditions.
@utube66680 hahaha true that... its so funny that the hypocrite michael moore actually went to a private spa to reduce weight hahaha... fucking fat hypocrite...
@Sexisttroll have you seen the more recent things posted on Youtube by Libertypen? it is friedman talking to mayo clinic, a room full of doctors and how free market is the solution, and by requiring license, you control what a doctor can and cannot do.
Why don't the insurance companies demand lower prices from doctors? They just let the client pay ridicoulus prices? In the Netherlands everyone has to be insured. The goverment just makes sure insurances are not becoming to high and determines the minimum policy one should have. The market does the rest, that saved a lot of money per treathment. (Ofcourse the total amount of money spend on healthcare increases because people become older, but at least you buy something for every euro)
I wish we had socialized healthcare in this country! That would be AWESOME! If you don't think the same, then research socialized medicine... Even if one really doesn't like the idea of anything socialist (I hope you're not a hypocrite and accept Medicare btw) then this story should still reveal how huge of a FAIL private medicine is for everyone except the providers.
@joshuatreet - So basically, you want to see our country bankrupt so that everybody can pay more for a lower standard of medical care. That is what socialized medicine will give you. It will also reduce your freedoms, but I'm guessing you're okay with that too.
What if health insurance companies offered lower premium plans that only paid for more expensive procedures (surgeries etc.) and medications while leaving primary care services to cheaper pay-per-service clinics? Then Americans would have access to cheaper primary health care but still be covered in case of major accidents or disease. Would Americans take the responsibility to look after their health through regular checkups or would they just wait until they end up in the ER?
@akikuch Hmmmm.... that's actually a really good idea and a great point. But looking at our current trends and obesity can you really think it would work, or would it have a drastic effect and make it work.
What I noticed about John Stossel is that he would take conservative arguments and liberal arguments and by the end of the documentary, he would lean toward the conservative one.
This 20/20 episode lies to you. You still get to control of your own health under Universal HealthCare. Doctors get paid very well in this system, Health Care is a human right. There is no reason to pay for it!
healthcare is not a human right, how can one person have a right to another person's labour, if i want to sit at home all day and smoke cigarettes and i get ill does that mean that i have a right to make someone work to make me better, people act in their own self interests and a bigger safety net will cause more people to act more irresponsibly while their backs are covered by others
@sony8877 That make no sense. Doctors help people because that is what they do. They don't do it for profit. Why should anyone get something out helping others.
doctors help people for money, they do it primarily to support themselves because it is their job, they may be helping others in the same way that somebody is feeding people when farming, both are doing a service that is important to health of people. doctors may be more specialised, but they are not separate from other important things like farmers and builders and should not be treated as 'morally' differently by making the solution government control, which never works
@sonic042004 Doctors are not priests and nuns... they have to pay rent and bills too, so they need to get paid for their services. Box/bag-boys at grocery stores help little old ladies out to their cars because that's what THEY do too... Does that mean they shouldn't get wages and or tips for it?
@rfm2ckt - Don't forget that they need to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to get their education, AND pay exorbitant amounts of money for malpractice insurance.
@sonic042004 You're absolutely right. The whole topic is confusing. I'm going to put it plain and simple. If someone gets sick in any way, shape, or form, they go in for treatment the only thing you are asked is your name and date of birth, and you are then given the best care possible. What about the cost, what cost? Why is cost a factor in someone's God Given Right To Live? If someone chooses to rob me of that, then with a gun, not because I can't afford to live.
@sonic042004 I come from a country whit universal healthcare and both my parents work at hospitals.
There is something very wrong whit letting uneducated politicians who have no idea of what they r doing decide over hospitals and how the healthcare system should work.
@sonic042004 - You are under the impression that universal health care is compassionate. You're dead wrong. It's letting the government control a part of our lives it has no business dictating. This will only cripple the economy, reduce the quality of care, and create more poor people. That's not compassionate, it's corrupt and stupid.
My doctor gave me her cel number and i had full coverage to my cancer treatment. and control afterwards. I live in Argentina, I'm son of a teacher, midle-class...so far... no complaints.
Yes, if YOU saved money by shopping around, even large complicated procedures would come down in price. Actually the more expencive the procedure the MORE money competition would save you!
It is a sad fact that so many Americans do not understand how the miracle called the free market works. Schools do not teach the young about how free markets took us from horse and buggies to the moon in only a few short decades.
Please America learn about freedom and free markets before its too late.
@ok1jwc If Ron Paul doesn't get elected in 2012, we are doomed to die a bunch of socialist slaves. If the FED was dismantled, ALL of our financial woes (including healthcare) would resolve themselves. END the FED... and we will ALL be fed!
Although I agree that competition could work in reducing costs for "simple" illnesses (i.e. sore throat or ear infection). Does anyone have any insight if the same logic could be applied to more complicated medical procedures, like kidney transplants or cancer treatment? Since they already cost so much, how could competition significantly reduce the price so as to be more affordable?
@ nbcisaac, Insurance companies, i.e. bluecross, aetna, etc., are privately owned which means that they depend on people buying insurance policies from them to make profits. If there were more competition, i.e. competition across state lines, the insurance companies would have to fight for business because the people would be more inclined to buy cheaper insurance driving other companies to lower prices on policies.
These nurse practitioners should not by law be seeing people without a doctor around to see the patient. Anurse practitioner almost killed me playing doctor; you must always see a doctor first and the nurse practitioner is to assist the doctor with his plan of treatment..
Everyone needs to see things like this instead of wanting more government like Obamacare.
1Julian24245 2 days ago
Minute Clinic takes insurance now.
eurohim 3 days ago
This has been flagged as spam show
It's beautiful, it really is.
The way a free market works is so elegant and graceful, it boggles my mind that it can even work...how ironic is it that trying to direct things when it comes to economics makes them LESS effective, and LESS efficient?
It's the most counter-intuitive notion I've ever encountered.
I think once this whole notion of socializing things is overcome, just like it was once thought that the sun revolves around the earth, the world will become a much better place.
Spjungen 1 week ago
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Spjungen 1 week ago
Where's the rest of this piece? Seems it ended very abruptly, like there should be a part 7.
kommisar 2 weeks ago
People without money don't have choice.
IMaximusDMI 3 weeks ago
@IMaximusDMI Did those people look particularly rich to you in those private clinics? You have the choice of choosing your doctor, just like you have the choice of where you buy your food, which is another necessity like health care.
kommisar 2 weeks ago
@kommisar It has nothing to do with wealth. Go to a cvs, walgreens, or even a walmart, and take a look at the people who go to the little private clinics springing up all over places like that; most of them are middle, lower middle, lower class, because that's how affordable is. Those clinics alone compete for business, and so people can afford it. Imagine if EVERYONE competed.
People would be able to afford healthcare, and NOT because of insurance!
It'd be beautiful!
Spjungen 1 week ago
@kommisar I know. Maximus is just a clown.
kommisar 1 week ago
@kommisar I don't see how you really have choice in "choosing your doctor". Technically if you don't have money you will go to one in your close vicinity because lack of means of transportation. And I've never had the pleasure to try before you buy so to speak.
I've always had to spend $50 to $100 just to SEE the doctor. People can't go around making a bunch of doctor appointments to find what's right for them. People's life savings can disappear within a day visit.
IMaximusDMI 5 days ago
@IMaximusDMI The same could be said about grocery shopping, having your dry cleaning done, buying clothes or anything else that requires you to leave your house. Seriously, are you this much of a fucking idiot? "I don't have a choice because I can't afford to go anywhere beyond walking distance." That's unbelievably stupid. If that's your mentality, forget the doctor. Just let yourself succumb to death because you've obviously failed at life; it's darwinism at work.
kommisar 1 day ago
@IMaximusDMI Wow, didn't they just show another clip of people going to doctors that give cheap appointments with no insurance? Let me ask you something: How do you find a good plumber, mechanic, interior decorator or anyone else without using their services first? It's called research, and it's not that hard to do if you put some effort in. I can look up reviews on a restaurant before eating there. Shit, use some common sense and quit being such a moron.
kommisar 1 day ago
@kommisar Sites I've come across require a paid subscription to read user submitted reviews of doctors. And if you think that those websites don't profit from doctor's paying for better reviews to get more patients then you shouldn't be talking to me about common sense. Reviews can be padded by anybody and they are, so don't kid yourself.
You can find many mechanics, pumbers, interior decorators that make house calls just to give you free estimates. So please.
IMaximusDMI 20 hours ago
@IMaximusDMI Right. So in other words, the whole system is rigged so that you have no other option other than to go to the doctor that is closest to you. You can't look up reviews, check into the doctors' work history, seek alternative treatment or even take a bus.
...
Yeah, I call bullshit. You're just being a moron.
Yes, all those professionals will give you free estimates. So will doctors. Now go away.
kommisar 14 hours ago
@IMaximusDMI How many people have absolutlely NO money? Very few.
And if they don't, they can go to a charity. Hospitals all over America run huge charities that take care of people who CAN'T pay. Bet you won't hear Michael Moore talking about that.
I would know, my mom works in one, taking care of cancer kids everyday.
And I'll tell you one thing right now, it ain't socialized.
Spjungen 1 week ago
@IMaximusDMI I'm sure even the poor can afford to save up a few dollars and spend them to go to a clinic instead of on booze.
And hell even if they have NO money and have an emergency, the ambulance will take care of them. People are never let down. It's never been that way and it never will be, and it was never a problem until insurance, thanks to the government, became huge.
People who work for health have an instinctive drive to help their fellow man. That's why they chose the job.
Spjungen 1 week ago
@Spjungen People don't become doctors JUST because they wanna make money. Some part of them must want to be noble and help people, and that's precisely what they do. The fact of the matter is they simply don't just turn people down. It's helped by the fact that EMERGENCIES generally aren't common; people don't TRY to get hurt so they can go to the doctor.
Healthcare's never been a problem until recently, when insurance started working hand in hand with government.
Spjungen 1 week ago
3:05 Did that doctor just prescribe her 1 cat, 3 times a day, for 10 days? Poor kitties! :'-(
Musicmonk84 1 month ago
You know a video is good when it has Milton Friedman in its recommended videos.
redsox1006 1 month ago
I just finished watching all 6 videos in this series... and I have to say, it's SO FULL of half-assed logic and free-market propaganda that I wish I could reach in and slap Stossel's mustache off his face while telling him how much of a willfully naive dipshit he is. Be warned, people, this report is WEAK... I mean... they're talking to CATO INSTITUTE about DOCTORS' practices in relation to for-profit healthcare?? That's like asking Exxon if oil is a clean fuel.
IngeniousEpithet 2 months ago
@IngeniousEpithet Yes, and your argument completely destroys Stossel;s argument using ad hominum, and declaring it is wrong, which defeats it because... uhhhh...
Of course he talks to people who work for the Cato institute, they research this stuff and argue on behalf on free market options. What, should he exclude them for your satisfaction? Should people who work for for-profit health care not get a voice in the debate on for-profit healthcare?
bdg323 2 months ago
@bdg323
Wrong. You're not using ad HOMINEM correctly. Cato institute, once again, is NOT the proper organization to give such lengthy air-time to on a topic such as universal health care. OF COURSE they're going to rail against it, even if they have to cherry-pick, lie, or obfuscate (which they do). Reality is, we're the ONLY first-world country without universal health-care, we're also one of the most ENDEMIC surveillance/police-states in the world. Universal HC does not bring despotism.
IngeniousEpithet 2 months ago
@IngeniousEpithet Fine, then John Stossel was wrong for inviting any advocate of Universal healthcare as well. Michael Moore should not have been alllowed any time.Who should he invite to advocate against UHC? No one? Also, if you argue lengthy, then look up socrites paradox. Should he not bring in people who know what they are talking about? If so, should he not be able to argue his side at all? Also, your two descriptions of america have no relation to one another.
bdg323 2 months ago
@bdg323
Advocates FOR universal health care don't HAVE a conflict of interest like Cato institute (and the industries they represent) does. How do you not understand this? WHEN MASS SUMS OF PRIVATE MONEY ARE INVOLVED, YOU DON'T GIVE THAT MUCH AIR-TIME TO THOSE WHO STAND TO LOSE IT BY SWITCHING TO AN ALTERNATIVE. Stossel OBVIOUSLY swallowed their BS willingly and gave his half-assed/smug pseudo-journalistic account of universal health-care without regard to true journalism/science/medicine.
IngeniousEpithet 2 months ago
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IngeniousEpithet 2 months ago
@bdg323
My two descriptions of America have no relation to one another? Not sure what you mean by that. It's a fact that we are essentially the only first-world country without universal health care. It's also a fact that we are one of the most surveilled and policed societies on the planet. This flies in the face of claims by those of you who rail AGAINST universal health care who say it'll bring in a police/nanny state... well WE ALREADY HAVE ONE without it. UHC won't make it worse either.
IngeniousEpithet 2 months ago
ok so you basically get rid of the concept of "free" universal health care or free care at the point of use. deductibles or co-pays as part of cost sharing seems very reasonable I think the part that is attractive with UHC is people want to be covered for major illness and have access. The current system we have the problem of access is the inflationary costs that get pushed onto those lacking any kind of coverage.
juxtn 2 months ago
@MrDanielBowman74
I personally don't see the overwhelming problems you've asserted that comes along with having UHC. Doctors going on strike, doctors stealing, etc. I assume anyone can make anecdotal accusations about any one system, but the numbers likely wouldn't suggest causation from a UHC system, or even an epidemic of such. I've had amazing service with UHC and I've never had to stress about not having enough money to go to the doctors or ER. I couldn't imagine having that burden as well.
Rockafella9 2 months ago
Michael Moore is an idiot traitor. I'd like to drop his ass in Cuba when he has a potentially life threatening illness, and see if he comes out alive. And he doesn't get to cherry pick an use the elitist hospital, he has to use the clinic that the normal Cuban uses. You know he'd never do it in a million years.
Rockyfan10060 2 months ago
In regards to this topic, I think that maybe a hybrid system of Government-run and Privately-run health care would be best. That way, for those who choose not to wait, they have the option of paying an additional fee for receiving prompt services. However, if I had to choose, I wouldn't hesitate in choosing Government-run care. It's "priority first", so I don't mind racing through the ER when I have a serious problem, as well as waiting a few hours for less serious ones to let others ahead.
Rockafella9 2 months ago
@DarkHawk123 Yeah, poor Romney. He, like a lot of the Republican candidates running, have a lot of credentials. But the flip-flop thing is detrimental. There's nothing wrong with changing your position based on emerging research and continuous learning. However, Romney gets caught up in "what's most popular today" to secure frontrunner status, trying to be a moderate to appeal to the general electorate. Might seem like a smart idea, but you do end up looking like you have no convictions.
Rockafella9 2 months ago
Bait and switch logic.
Moore was arguing that our capitalist (blah, blah, blah) healthcare system doesn't provide everyone coverage, and many people get screwed.
Stossel completely side stepped that point and instead pointed out that, if it were implemented differently, it could be very cost effective.
Cost effectiveness and universal access are two very different virtues, and everyone does have access to Canada's system, such as it is. Maybe the answer is in the middle- I'm shocked too.
darkhawk123 2 months ago
@darkhawk123
Of course, state should provide for emergencies and for the really poor (no Xbox to sell) and it would do it with easy without these hyped up prices.
What socialists mean by access is "equality" - no one should receive better treatment than other. What it does in the end is, everyone gets equally poor treatment...except gov officials, VIPs and those who bribe it. I experienced completely socialized medicine...bribe, bribe, bribe or you die.
MrDanielBowman74 2 months ago
@MrDanielBowman74
Socialism? You do everyone not on the radical right rolls their eyes when you say that right? We're not talking about instituting collective farms, we're talking about giving more citizens access to health insurance. Take Canada's system for example. There is a public health system that does some things really well, and a private system working right beside it. Both get along fine.
In fact I'd wager both systems are better off for having the other take a share of the load.
darkhawk123 2 months ago
@darkhawk123
In Canada private clinics work outside of law as I understood the documentary.
I wanted to point out that UHC with non-profit insurance "companies" is disaster. It slowly drowns in bureaucracy, inefficiency and corruption. More balanced approach may take longer to bankrupt, that's all. Problem with combining public option and private one is, it drives prices up, bc you have a strong monopoly in town. You'd need to regulate drug prices too to prevent price surge-destroying progress.
MrDanielBowman74 2 months ago
@MrDanielBowman74 Then regulate drug prices, Wow that was easy. And a strong monopoly will drive prices down as other insurers will be forced to compete with the monopoly. But whatever, as long as people aren't dying of poverty.
Plus people skipping out of on their bills for small things are part of what is driving up costs. If we help for preventative care then we avoid more expensive problems later,
Basically, its cheaper for society to pay for removing a poor man's mole than for his chemo.
darkhawk123 1 month ago
@darkhawk123 If we regulate drug prices companies will spend less money on research. As for the poor man's mole, its cheapest if we don't pay for it at all.
BillyJoe1305 1 month ago
@BillyJoe1305 Its cheap as long you don't value human life.
darkhawk123 1 month ago
@darkhawk123 I value individual rights. Forcing one man to provide for another's existence walks all over both. A person who is deemed unfit to provide for himself is less than human & also incapable of making certain decisions, such as what to eat, weather or not he has any dangerous hobbies, should he have kids, choice of medicine (example Marijuana). The man who is forced to support him is merely a slave. I want none of either.
BillyJoe1305 1 month ago
@BillyJoe1305 Wow. That was a great treatise on individual rights. Call me old fashioned, bu I value good medical results. When people can't afford to go to the doctor, they don't go until they have no choice but to go. Then they die, or don't pay. That burden gets passed on to everyone else. If we provided insurance for that person and they got treated sooner then I'd be willing to risk the lower self-esteem for lower medical costs and a healthier nation. I'm practical that way.
darkhawk123 1 month ago
@BillyJoe1305 Also you used "weather" when I think you meant "whether."
And slave seems incredibly dramatic don't you think? Its hardly forced servitude with constant whipping, its- at worst- the government setting up exchanges and forcing you to buy health insurance. Not exactly the same as being kidnapped stripped of your culture and name and forced to work on a plantation as chattle.
darkhawk123 1 month ago
@darkhawk123 Good slaves don't get whipped. Therefore the people who do as they are told get to live as nice happy house slaves. Yet if I decide not to pay my taxes they forcibly remove me from my home, strip me naked ,possibly cut my hair, give me the clothes they want me to wear & throw me in a cage with violent men. This seems quite similar to what you described. On top of that I'm not entirely sure you're completely aware of more than one historical instance of slavery.
BillyJoe1305 1 month ago
@BillyJoe1305 You know what. I am done. You sir, are clearly an idiot. You just defended slavery to try to make a point about the evils about having more affordable health insurance. I don't know what your particular gripe with the world is, but my advise is to get over it. Obama is going to be reelected, the Affordable Care Act is law, and you will still just be a crotchety old jerk on YouTube.
And slavery wasn't super fun for all those slaves in Egypt, or during the Roman Empire- jackhole.
darkhawk123 1 month ago
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BillyJoe1305 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@darkhawk123 Comparing slavery to the threat of violent action against a man who refuses to give his earnings to another man is not defending it. I did, however, compare people like you to the people Malcolm X referred to as "house niggers" & Uncle Toms. Although I personally think Malcolm X was given to much credit as a civil rights leader I mostly agree with him on this subject.
BillyJoe1305 1 month ago
@BillyJoe1305 Malcolm X had a lot to say about a health care reform bill that was passed decades after his death did he?
BillyJoe, I love you. You make the other side of this debate look dumber just by typing. Seriously, keep it up. Also it wasn't me who flagged your comment as spam, I just laughed when it happened.
By the way, I don't know who gave you the impression that tax payers shouldn't have to pay for things they don't approve of.
darkhawk123 1 month ago
@darkhawk123 No he had a lot to say about people who were willing to give up their freedom because their master always saw they were provided for & didn't abuse them specifically ("not to much'"). I used the slavery parallel to apply this to modern relationships with the government. Which actually, he drew the parallel apply it to completely different actions the government was taking. So although not about healthcare a parallel was already drawn between government & slave master.
BillyJoe1305 1 month ago
@darkhawk123 2 things to ad to my last comment. First to correct my mistake, part of my comment reads, "he drew the parallel apply it to completely different actions..." This should read, "He drew the parallel to apply it to people defending completely different actions..."
2nd none of my comments appear to be flagged.
On another topic, could you explain to me how deregulation killed the auto industry, the nuclear power industry (or how it'd be more expensive than public utilities)
BillyJoe1305 1 month ago
@BillyJoe1305 Really from this last comment, if you scroll up the one that begins "Comparing slavery to the threat of violent action..." is flagged from my viewpoint, and the one above that has been removed. Maybe its different for you because its your comment?
Sometimes deregulation works, sometimes it doesn't but the health insurance industry is not over-regulated. Its problems come from being under-regulated. We tend to view health care as one big industry and that's a mistake of perception.
darkhawk123 4 weeks ago
@darkhawk123 That may be, YouTube keeps changing things. I must disagree with you on the lack of regulation of health insurance though. There already to many rules on what healthcare must cover, as well as some states regulating who they must accept & for how much. The 400lb man with a smoking habit & heart condition needs charged more than everybody else, otherwise everyone pays more. He should be aloud to get to 400lbs & smoke. His decisions should earn his consequences, not mine.
BillyJoe1305 4 weeks ago
@BillyJoe1305 "Allowed" not "aloud" homonyms are tricky.
Different states have different regulations, maybe where you are there is lots of government red tape but here. States are often very lax. And as labor unions have declined businesses have reduced benefits, either offering HMOs or no health coverage at all.
Citizens need to stand up and assert their power as a collective, and government allows them to do that. It allows the citizens to unite against larger powers, like business.
darkhawk123 4 weeks ago
@darkhawk123 & who watches the watchdog? Beyond that, what if a business said you can receive this much extra pay or this benefit, I suppose you want them to be forced to hand over both? Maybe get the nation to the level Detroit was at where the average line worker got equivalent of $75.00 an hour right up until, "poof" for no apparent reason the jobs just disappeared? & what happens when the collective starts telling individual what to do, instead of just businesses?
BillyJoe1305 4 weeks ago
@BillyJoe1305 Lets not lose focus. Because while its apparent we don't agree about health insurance reform, we're having what has finally become an interesting discussion. But if we have to start talking about the auto industry and their... issues we'll never leave our keyboards.
darkhawk123 4 weeks ago
@darkhawk123 I'd also like to point out that everything I mentioned is either already written into Obamacare, or planned to be added on if the law isn't overturned. I also don't think mandatory insurance will be cheaper than the current model. Demand will go up, prices will to. I mean I have to pay taxes every year & they aren't getting smaller.
BillyJoe1305 4 weeks ago
@BillyJoe1305 I'm glad you know what they're "planning." Did you hear about the FEMA interment camps? Or the death panels? That's whats got me scared.
Come on. The states are running the exchanges, if you don't like the way things are done call your state rep. Its federalism all the way, just the way the founders would have liked. The federal government comes up with a big idea, create a loose framework, the individual states implement it. Fed. Gov. is totally hands off.
darkhawk123 4 weeks ago
@darkhawk123 Yes, because saying they plan to add more regulations to an already bloated law is the same as saying they're about to round us & shoot us. It isn't like they pass regulatory laws all the time.
BillyJoe1305 4 weeks ago
@BillyJoe1305 Actually they do. "They" are called government. Government's purpose is to pass and enforce laws. And no, its not the same. If your local city council adds a yield sign at the end of the street it isn't "slavery." If the Federal govt says you have to have health insurance, and they'll help you pay for it, that isn't lining you up and executing you.
Lets lower the drama a bit. Its just health insurance.
darkhawk123 4 weeks ago
@darkhawk123You mean to say that you think no action taken by us governments violates anybody's rights & you don't think they should be stopped because its for the good of the collective?
BillyJoe1305 4 weeks ago
@BillyJoe1305 No that's not what I mean to say, comrade. What I mean to say is, someone telling you to stop yelling, you're in a library is "technically" violating your freedom of speech. But that is very far removed from being lined up and shot because you are a member of a different political party.
You seem to think the Affordable Care Act is just another in long line of steps to the Communist regime Glenn Beck's been warning us about. It isn't. Don't compare this to slavery or murder.
darkhawk123 4 weeks ago
@darkhawk123 Not if it's their library, and what I think it does is give the government more reason to be allowed to tell us what we can eat & drink or what medicine we should take. I also think its one more way they force people to support others.
BillyJoe1305 4 weeks ago
@BillyJoe1305 Happy New Year. So its okay for the people who run a public library to tell you how you can act in the library. But the people elected to run the country have no business making rules about how you conduct yourself in the country? You don't see the cognitive dissonance there? Democrats won, Republicans lost. Your going to get some liberal laws for a little bit. This is by the way a Republican idea from the 90s so I don't know why conservatives are mad. We're doing it your way.
darkhawk123 4 weeks ago
@darkhawk123 My statement specifically said if the library belonged to the person telling you to be quiet they could do whatever they want. Furthermore there is a difference between rules that apply inside a building & rules they can come into your home & enforce. As for this being a Republican Idea it is only the Neocons, the further right & more mainstream Republican position has always been against it. In fact Reagan had some strong words on it.
BillyJoe1305 4 weeks ago
@BillyJoe1305, Okay, 1. NeoCons are not liberal Republicans. 2. I am done. It is a new year and I shed myself of this Youtube argument. We disagree, I think that is apparent. We are both (sometimes all three) pretty committed to our viewpoints. I think further discussion is pretty unlikely to change minds. I hope you vote for your favorite candidate come the primaries. I hope Ron Paul wins the nomination- at least he believes what he says,
darkhawk123 4 weeks ago
@darkhawk123 True calamity insurance is no longer attainable. Some things states have required insurance companies to cover things including preventive care & check ups, even birth control & psychotherapy have made the list. Insurance that covers cancer & car accidents alongside paying a Dr for annual check ups is affordable. Insurance that covers Suzie's birth control, Billy's mommy issues or the trips to the doctor's office every time a hypochondriac sneezes just isn't as cheap.
BillyJoe1305 4 weeks ago
@BillyJoe1305 Birth control is cheap, Billy's mommy issues are expensive. and the sneezing, well if you go once per sneezing fit its cheaper.
darkhawk123 4 weeks ago
@darkhawk123 I know three replies is a lot, but I wish to discuss the original side of the deregulation topic, Pharmaceuticals. Drugs are often delayed far beyond necessary before they can be approved reach the market & even after that it can take years, because nobody wishes to be the agent who approved a drug that had unknown side effects. This sounds like erring on the side of caution, but countless lives are lost waiting for these to hit the market. Less regulation may help.
BillyJoe1305 4 weeks ago
@BillyJoe1305 Wow good point. I guess I should throw in the towel... oh wait...
Vioxx was an arthritis drug pulled from the market in 2004 because it caused heart attack and stroke. Thalidomide treated morning sickness, but sadly caused birth defects was pulled in the 1960s. Rezulin was intended to treat diabetes, an FDA doctor tried to warn about side effects, but he was fired, 390 died of liver failure. Duract was an FDA approved pain killer pulled after 68 deaths. The process is too HARD??
darkhawk123 4 weeks ago
@darkhawk123 Yes drugs have caused deaths, but how many have died waiting to get medicine that existed, but wasn't allowed to be on the shelf. 22,000 died over the course of 2 years (85-87) because streptokinase (for blood-flow in a heart attack) hadn't been approved 7,000 deaths per year because the FDA hasn't approved the Ambu cardio pump. So yeah, it is too hard to get a drug approved.
BillyJoe1305 4 weeks ago
@darkhawk123 Beyond that, your post on slavery implied (whether intentional or not) that I was making a racist statement by comparing the trade & sale of African tribesman to other events in history; by laying those specific events as requirements for slavery.
BillyJoe1305 1 month ago
@darkhawk123 As for the other man I was more concerned about his actual rights than ow he views himself. If society is to pay for his existence & expenses society has a right to tell him what risky behaviors, or behaviors at all, he may participate in. So no more bacon & eggs, no skydiving & only our preferred medications.
You are however correct about my spelling of "whether."
BillyJoe1305 1 month ago
@darkhawk123
What is valuable on forced charity? I have nothing against solidarity but UHC made by Obama won't work. Once A collects money from B,C,D and decides to whom and how much it will redistribute it is always a disaster. Even worse when A actually gives most of it to Z who hasn't contributed at all. Z and B,C,D will spend the money like crazy unless you control it with huge bureaucratic overhead, making you collect even more $. Public option is always a disaster.
MrDanielBowman74 1 month ago
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@darkhawk123
What is valuable on forced charity? I have nothing against solidarity but UHC made by Obama won't work. Once A collects money from B,C,D and decides to whom and how much it will redistribute it is always a disaster. Even worse when A actually gives most of it to Z who hasn't contributed at all. Z and B,C,D will spend the money like crazy unless you control it with huge bureaucratic overhead, making you collect even more $. Public option is always a disaster.
MrDanielBowman74 1 month ago
@darkhawk123
If you attempt to regulate it will lead to expensive bureaucracy and corruption. Monopolies always drive prices up...because they just don't have to care...you have to buy the shyt from them. Public ownership always results in higher prices and lower quality.
MrDanielBowman74 1 month ago
@MrDanielBowman74 That is just not true. Deregulation of major industries has led inexorably to higher prices in almost all sectors. Public utilities are much more cost effective than their free market counterparts. Deregulation led to chaos in the banking system for example.
darkhawk123 1 month ago
@darkhawk123
I believe you are mistaken. Competition is crucial for lowering the prices, higher quality and new inventions. Once you regulate you restrict access/competition, you bend the prices based on bureaucratic "reasoning". Banking system is actually one big socialistic scam :-) , where central banks - bureaucrats dictate the interest rates. If it was free enterprise for real you won't have/need any bail outs.
MrDanielBowman74 4 weeks ago
@MrDanielBowman74 Bank bail outs were bullshit, hear hear. But I am done with this particular fight. Happy New Year Mr. Bowman.
darkhawk123 4 weeks ago
@darkhawk123
Are you running away, you coward? Just kidding :] Happy New Year to you Mr. Hawk.
MrDanielBowman74 3 weeks ago
i choose a health care savings account. wow, it's so logical and ez.
YOU JUST HAVE TO TAKE ALL THE WHINING AND BITCHING AND MOANING AND EMPATHY OUT OF IT.
Micheal Moore knew stossel had him on facts, that's why he condiscindingly laughed at john... hahahahaha... Your so 1300th century.... i love this... hahahah.
Jayho747 3 months ago
@Jayho747 That or it was edited. Either way Stossel made his point.
darkhawk123 2 months ago
7 people are still waiting in Canadian hospital lines.
rjg82070 4 months ago
@rjg82070 I did last week. Waited an hour, got my shit and left.
RedDaVincy 1 month ago
I think the U.S. is a great country, but they're hardly progressive on this issue. If every other industrial nation on this entire planet embraces Universal Healthcare, and yours doesn't, perhaps you should re-evaluate. Ask how many people would be willing to give up their Universal Health Care for a privatized system. They'd laugh in your face. Who'd want to go back to that? Even Mitt Romney did it in HIS state. And HE'S a Conservative. If it makes sense, it shouldn't be politically devisive.
Rockafella9 4 months ago
@Rockafella9
Just wondering if you watched the entire episode? In one of the earlier vids that's exactly what they are doing in Canada. It's against the law, but those private run places still operate. Universal HC is not as simple as it may appear. Let me just throw this at you. True, other countries have UHC, but they have small militaries. The US tax payer pretty much pays to subsidies other countries defenses. Those countries can then spend the tax money on their people/HC system.
drshlotzkin 3 months ago
@Rockafella9 You didn't hear Mitt Romney is a liberal now, oh nevermind he switched back.
darkhawk123 2 months ago
@Rockafella9
Actually former communist countries had 100% UHC and most still have not reformed it yet...no profit insurance companies, minimal direct payments etc. It is DISASTER. It is bankrupt, doctors strike for bigger salary, corruption from patients and drug companies is enormous, doctors steal, bribes, bribes, bribes, very bad care.
!!!West is moving in the wrong direction. You need less socialized medicine. Even combination is bad...gov involvement drives prices sky high!!!
MrDanielBowman74 2 months ago
who the hell is advocating that the gym should be government/ insurance company run? he's making some good points but some utterly stupid ones in the same breath
alsdaftable 5 months ago
So the documetary says humans are selfish arseholes who only care for themselves and doctors only became doctors to make profit. The whole system depends on profit and scientists working for the goverment do not care to become more efficient. Loool.
At these times I am glad to live in Austria. Free entrance to a hospital only little money for prescription and unemployment benefit. The USA is only good at making war and making more debts. I am sorry for the intelligent one of you.
WasGibtsLeute 5 months ago
@WasGibtsLeute I pulled my 19foot inboard ski boat with my v8 F150 to the lake the other day and remembered my trip to norther europe. Many of us load 4-6 people up into spacious four door diesels and pull 40 foot campers. Can you do that in Austria? LOL. Or do you load up in your peugot and wonder why your population numbers do so poorly? It aint perfect, but at least we don't need gubment to take care of our health. Community health, communist health, how many people move to your country?LOL
HomeEnergyNow 5 months ago
Wait until your system (police state; patriot act) breaks completely down. Your country is onwned by China.
People come to your country because gov. lies to everybody: from rags to riches.
The first people fled from Europe to the "USA". Your ancestors are European except for the children of the Native Indians.
Only desperated AND badly educated people - African American and Chinese forced - flee to you. Sciences base on "our" Nazis, no own culture so far. Democracy comes from the Greeks. LOOL
WasGibtsLeute 5 months ago
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HomeEnergyNow 5 months ago
@WasGibtsLeute We are a republic of a constitution, with democratic parts. How can you talk, we have cities with more people than your country. My state is way bigger than your whole country, we are like 100 austrias worth of land. We have diversity living here, not just visiting like Austria. Our states are still fairly diverse, I will admit people here seem to be more and more dependant on corporatecommunism, like China, but damn it we have a chance. Nobody goes to Austria for care.
HomeEnergyNow 5 months ago
It is qualitiy not quantity what counts. The foreigners who are coming for medical treatment are riches. YOU do not get the same treatment as THEY do. Diversity? You have put Native Americans into reservations. And what's about discrimination of the black people and Mexican? You are fighting six wars currently and what's about Abu Grahib? Now that's what you call "republic of a constitution"? In Austria are no food stamps and nobody has to sleep on the streets.
WasGibtsLeute 5 months ago
@WasGibtsLeute Nobody would live sleeping on the streets its too damn cold there! :) Look our big govt. has been making us all look bad for a while now, and I tell you even worse, the people just let it happen. What happens when you have all these cool ass toys, ya get preoccupied and forget you have a govt. full of snakes that need watching. It aint perfect, I do admit when I got back to the US with all the CNN at the airports, and fat people, not all of us have been currupted yet.
HomeEnergyNow 5 months ago
@WasGibtsLeute That is funny though, my family left the Germany /Austria area during Catherine the great period because they were tired of the govt.. came here to cheap farmground, German communities/churches that spoke German and thank god they did. I have seen our differences, and I choose here too. Many of our good professors and Dr.s are foreign, they come here to be paid much better, and have better living standards. I take it you have never been here? You should visit, rent a big pickup.
HomeEnergyNow 5 months ago
@HomeEnergyNow
There must be two USA inside the USA. I only see homeless and jobless people on TV who need food stamps to survive. In the meanwhile the riches geht more and more rich. If I could afford it I would probably come but not to the east coast.
WasGibtsLeute 5 months ago
@WasGibtsLeute Come to Tx. Up the middle from Tx to Minnesota are lots of N. Europeans and its cheap compared to Europe.I am employed and doing well, the economy here seems fine, started four years ago. Too much bs in the media, just ignore them when it comes to this country. 0.66$/liter (i think i converted right) for gas, and thats high here. Hotels for 39$/night or @ 27euros. Good job with KTM, dissappointed Austria can whoop us in off road motorcycle production, we ride Jap or Austrian :(
HomeEnergyNow 5 months ago
Okay, copetition is lower prices. But often lower treatment. The USA makes more and more debts many people have six credit cards and they really think that capitalism is the best in the world. looool.
They think there is only USA or China. They next bubble awaits you.
WasGibtsLeute 5 months ago
Cheap doctors in shopping malls with pizzeria like pricelists and healthcare insurance companies that deny healthcare to ONLY 3% of the people that paid them money and leaving out those high risk people that just cost to much is the right way to build our healthcare system in the new era. John really put Michael Moore in his place. I think in the future we should also privitize the air. It's ourageous to let all these cheapskates breathing for free ):(
beduin024 5 months ago
Competition is great John, but what about those who cannot afford those prices? You leave the poorest in your country still with few options. At least in Canada I get care and don't have to worry. You are one sad country who thinks competition is the only answer to anything - no wonder your country caused our last major recession and is currently on the verge of bankruptcy.
robertrutherford1959 6 months ago
@robertrutherford1959 this country is awsome the buisnesss and corporations are fucking idiots and money-grubbing jews.
chicanokid101 5 months ago
@robertrutherford1959 Coming from the mobile home capitol of the world......LOL Ever been to the USA? I would need phycotherapy on your tab if I had to move to sorry ass Canada. Church is for those that cant' afford healthcare, OPTIONAL charity. I guess when you are too fucking selfish to give, your govt. has to take it from you. How many high rollers of the world fly to Canada for healthcare? Oh, they don't, wonder why? LOL
HomeEnergyNow 5 months ago
@HomeEnergyNow
Oh, and do not think that I claim that my f...g country is perfect at all. I am not a patriot. I prefer freedom and a certain spirit not a certain country.
WasGibtsLeute 5 months ago
@robertrutherford1959 We have this thing called charity. No not government charity but real charity. We have groups that go out of there way to help people pay for stuff like that.
Epica124 4 months ago
0:19 Boobs
humanvegetable 7 months ago
google ron paul....
mkodaddy 8 months ago 15
1:25 Man, John Goodman sure looks different....did he get a haircut?
Champ721 10 months ago 2
@Champ721 Rofl.
Ajvarh 9 months ago
This has some good points about private enterprise creating competition and from that lower prices.
The big thing to take note here is that Moore was trying to drill home the insurance company argument. How they deny sick (sometimes life threatened) people with technicalities and fine print
And a note, a spa is not a hospital.
tiberiius 10 months ago
@tiberiius Absolutely, it is retarded how companies deny people coverage for conditions they didn't know about, but you do have to understand the logic behind why they would investigate it. And in the case of the cancerous tumor in his leg, he had seen a doctor about it the day before; that's kinda fishy. Although I agree we have a lot of problems with health insurance companies, I've yet to hear a solution other than the one mentioned in this video. Clearly it's the people more than the system.
m1ndfr34k117 9 months ago
@redguard What's the 21st century POV? That poor people are poor because "the man" forced poverty on them? Not every poor person is irresponsible, but most irresponsible people end up poor.
waddsworth 10 months ago
Thank you John Stossel.
trapezoid09 10 months ago
like the slogan says "If you think healthcare is expensive now, wait til it's free"
defgill 10 months ago 2
@defgill == even though it has been proven time and time again that the Natural Laws of supply and demand Increases quality (based on what the people want and or need) and lowers cost (because if one place is too high of cost fewer people will buy). this is what it will be if it is FREE. it hasnt been free. what do you think the drug war is REALLY about. heath it claims it for itself. yet they use mostly Illegal drugs to produce legal drug??? how is that logical at all?
speakoffreedom 9 months ago
@defgill it doesnt. it only promote fewer people to make more money without the relevant in put from the people themselves when the government takes it out of the FREE Market
speakoffreedom 9 months ago
@speakoffreedom kul. but i was talking about the price explsion that will accur when people think healthcare is free and overwhelm the system causing shortage of service and massive price increases
defgill 9 months ago
@H1TMANactual I guess we have different philosophies. I feel great knowing I'm helping less fortunate people be able to see a doctor with my taxes. You see health care as a privilege, whereas perhaps every other industrial country sees it as a right.
Rockafella9 10 months ago
Wait then why is he still a fatass?
H1TMANactual 10 months ago
Wow, people in this video are cheering for paying $40 per doctors' visit? Yeesh, I'm Canadian... I couldn't imagine having to pay a dime for a doctors' appointment. That would be so strange...
Rockafella9 10 months ago
@Rockafella9 Bravo the illusion of free. Nothing in this world is free. You paid for the doctor's visit in your tax. You know what else you paid for? Your neighbor's visit to the doctor b/c he has scratch on his balls. And if Moore was Canadian you'd pay for his fatass clogged arteries too ahahhaa
In the words of the great Milton Friedman "No one will spend your money as carefully as you"
H1TMANactual 10 months ago
@Rockafella9 Becasue they don't have bills to pay for and other people working with them to pay for. No they should do all that for free. Heck I think ever one should just work for free. Work 40 hours a day and don't make any money.
Epica124 4 months ago
ahahhahahahashahahahbahahahhaha
Fatso is now pissed off eating tons of big macs!!
agrincourt 10 months ago
Elective surgery doesn't not count. That's why it is called elective surgery it is not required to sustain life. I agree with the Dr. Berry. This is how a doctor should do things, but most don't. But I do think the Government needs to ensure that insurance company's can't disqualify you on preexisting conditions.
jrwilson98 11 months ago
Yeah but Michale Moore can afford to go to a private spa, he's making millions on his movies!!
tinarett 11 months ago
man fuck moore... friedman was right all this time...
Sexisttroll 1 year ago 17
@Sexisttroll milton friedman is a hero
utube66680 1 year ago
@utube66680 hahaha true that... its so funny that the hypocrite michael moore actually went to a private spa to reduce weight hahaha... fucking fat hypocrite...
Sexisttroll 1 year ago
@Sexisttroll have you seen the more recent things posted on Youtube by Libertypen? it is friedman talking to mayo clinic, a room full of doctors and how free market is the solution, and by requiring license, you control what a doctor can and cannot do.
bluefootedpig 11 months ago
Okay, what did I watch this highly-recommended documentary for? To see some limp-wristed homosexual with a mustache echo outdated myths? Wow...
Xpenguin17revived 1 year ago
@Xpenguin17revived - It's your pride in your ignorance that impresses me the most.
mpc91 1 year ago
Moral of the story:
If you believe what Michael Moore says, your IQ is most likely in the sub-70 range.
ahoov123 1 year ago 3
@ahoov123 funny, i was about to say the same thing about people believing in stossel's simplified world view...
benens 11 months ago
Moral of the story:
Free market economies always produce the best results.
discjockeyfuture 1 year ago 3
Why don't the insurance companies demand lower prices from doctors? They just let the client pay ridicoulus prices? In the Netherlands everyone has to be insured. The goverment just makes sure insurances are not becoming to high and determines the minimum policy one should have. The market does the rest, that saved a lot of money per treathment. (Ofcourse the total amount of money spend on healthcare increases because people become older, but at least you buy something for every euro)
Math2Anton 1 year ago
@Math2Anton, insurance companies in America can't compete against state lines easily or do much because of regulations. They like it that way though.
Houshalter 1 year ago
I wish we had socialized healthcare in this country! That would be AWESOME! If you don't think the same, then research socialized medicine... Even if one really doesn't like the idea of anything socialist (I hope you're not a hypocrite and accept Medicare btw) then this story should still reveal how huge of a FAIL private medicine is for everyone except the providers.
joshuatreet 1 year ago
@joshuatreet What country advances health care research more than any other?
flatblackstrat 1 year ago
@joshuatreet - So basically, you want to see our country bankrupt so that everybody can pay more for a lower standard of medical care. That is what socialized medicine will give you. It will also reduce your freedoms, but I'm guessing you're okay with that too.
mpc91 1 year ago
good lord michael moore is just am embarrassment to humanity ... billions of years of evolution he has negated
holmes328 1 year ago 2
What if health insurance companies offered lower premium plans that only paid for more expensive procedures (surgeries etc.) and medications while leaving primary care services to cheaper pay-per-service clinics? Then Americans would have access to cheaper primary health care but still be covered in case of major accidents or disease. Would Americans take the responsibility to look after their health through regular checkups or would they just wait until they end up in the ER?
akikuch 1 year ago 2
@akikuch Hmmmm.... that's actually a really good idea and a great point. But looking at our current trends and obesity can you really think it would work, or would it have a drastic effect and make it work.
flatblackstrat 1 year ago
What I noticed about John Stossel is that he would take conservative arguments and liberal arguments and by the end of the documentary, he would lean toward the conservative one.
Just as I thought, there is bias everywhere.
flipmaya 1 year ago
This 20/20 episode lies to you. You still get to control of your own health under Universal HealthCare. Doctors get paid very well in this system, Health Care is a human right. There is no reason to pay for it!
sonic042004 1 year ago 2
@sonic042004
healthcare is not a human right, how can one person have a right to another person's labour, if i want to sit at home all day and smoke cigarettes and i get ill does that mean that i have a right to make someone work to make me better, people act in their own self interests and a bigger safety net will cause more people to act more irresponsibly while their backs are covered by others
sony8877 1 year ago
@sony8877 That make no sense. Doctors help people because that is what they do. They don't do it for profit. Why should anyone get something out helping others.
sonic042004 1 year ago
@sonic042004
doctors help people for money, they do it primarily to support themselves because it is their job, they may be helping others in the same way that somebody is feeding people when farming, both are doing a service that is important to health of people. doctors may be more specialised, but they are not separate from other important things like farmers and builders and should not be treated as 'morally' differently by making the solution government control, which never works
sony8877 1 year ago
@sonic042004 Doctors are not priests and nuns... they have to pay rent and bills too, so they need to get paid for their services. Box/bag-boys at grocery stores help little old ladies out to their cars because that's what THEY do too... Does that mean they shouldn't get wages and or tips for it?
rfm2ckt 1 year ago 2
@rfm2ckt - Don't forget that they need to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to get their education, AND pay exorbitant amounts of money for malpractice insurance.
mpc91 1 year ago
@mpc91 I haven't forgotten that... I just think it's more than these socialist pea-brains can absorb.
rfm2ckt 1 year ago
@sonic042004 you still pay through your taxes idiot..
gb10100 1 year ago
@gb10100 Yeah, but at least going to something good.
sonic042004 1 year ago
@sonic042004 You're absolutely right. The whole topic is confusing. I'm going to put it plain and simple. If someone gets sick in any way, shape, or form, they go in for treatment the only thing you are asked is your name and date of birth, and you are then given the best care possible. What about the cost, what cost? Why is cost a factor in someone's God Given Right To Live? If someone chooses to rob me of that, then with a gun, not because I can't afford to live.
southparkfan2717 1 year ago
@southparkfan2717 Thank you! Finally someone agrees with me.
sonic042004 1 year ago
@sonic042004 I come from a country whit universal healthcare and both my parents work at hospitals.
There is something very wrong whit letting uneducated politicians who have no idea of what they r doing decide over hospitals and how the healthcare system should work.
Uuuurk 1 year ago 3
@Uuuurk You're right. God can only bless a country if it treats the poor with compassion.
sonic042004 1 year ago
@sonic042004 I dont belive in your god. According to stossel the poor gets healthcare in your country.
Uuuurk 1 year ago
@sonic042004 - You are under the impression that universal health care is compassionate. You're dead wrong. It's letting the government control a part of our lives it has no business dictating. This will only cripple the economy, reduce the quality of care, and create more poor people. That's not compassionate, it's corrupt and stupid.
mpc91 1 year ago 4
My doctor gave me her cel number and i had full coverage to my cancer treatment. and control afterwards. I live in Argentina, I'm son of a teacher, midle-class...so far... no complaints.
davidchapincastillo 1 year ago
Yes, if YOU saved money by shopping around, even large complicated procedures would come down in price. Actually the more expencive the procedure the MORE money competition would save you!
It is a sad fact that so many Americans do not understand how the miracle called the free market works. Schools do not teach the young about how free markets took us from horse and buggies to the moon in only a few short decades.
Please America learn about freedom and free markets before its too late.
ok1jwc 1 year ago
@ok1jwc If Ron Paul doesn't get elected in 2012, we are doomed to die a bunch of socialist slaves. If the FED was dismantled, ALL of our financial woes (including healthcare) would resolve themselves. END the FED... and we will ALL be fed!
rfm2ckt 1 year ago
@ok1jwc P.S. I meant to say SICK, socialist slaves...
rfm2ckt 1 year ago
Although I agree that competition could work in reducing costs for "simple" illnesses (i.e. sore throat or ear infection). Does anyone have any insight if the same logic could be applied to more complicated medical procedures, like kidney transplants or cancer treatment? Since they already cost so much, how could competition significantly reduce the price so as to be more affordable?
nbcisaac 2 years ago
@ nbcisaac, Insurance companies, i.e. bluecross, aetna, etc., are privately owned which means that they depend on people buying insurance policies from them to make profits. If there were more competition, i.e. competition across state lines, the insurance companies would have to fight for business because the people would be more inclined to buy cheaper insurance driving other companies to lower prices on policies.
Backmanmatt 1 year ago
These nurse practitioners should not by law be seeing people without a doctor around to see the patient. Anurse practitioner almost killed me playing doctor; you must always see a doctor first and the nurse practitioner is to assist the doctor with his plan of treatment..
iamisrael777 2 years ago
It won't be long until the government figures out how to get its hands on this and destroys it too.
disturbedone5009 2 years ago 29
you took the words right outta my mouth :-)
TraineeInTraining 2 years ago
@disturbedone5009 the only thing they'll do is add more zero's behind the low prices offered by the free market
JamesDBlanc 11 months ago
Argument is in process?
AlotaMaple 2 years ago
wow that last point about how michael moore lost weight is the best way to end it. i didnt even know that. what a hypocrite!!!!!