Physics, Metaphysics & the Consciousness Connection 7 of 18

[samann95014]

AHA !!!!

[acccccac]

@MrTickleparty ,

I agree.  I could never understand how people are not interested in understanding the self and the reality they live in. They are much more interested with the little picture.

[inscizor]

@MrTickleparty Same here, VERY few people get intellectually turned on talking about this stuff I find. I'm not even halfway through this series, but I am in agreeance with Mr. Campbell. It seems the smaller we test, the more there is to explain, hence we are looking for some function, expect it to be there and then find something, almost as if we are creating it by expectation! So we may have been created much the same way...

[tatsumakisempyukaku]

Best clip so far. I've thought of much of this before, but I never looked at it from the notion that we're non physical from another reality from. It's like dragon ball z is real some where out there. Is that possible?

[useramiterifet]

you can know if information is true or false there is a spirit of truth

[NsNr9r]

This video explains my last mushroom trip.. I'm going to go get some more now :D

[EscobaroWhite]

Ah yes that is explained throughout . Thanks for your response, i've passed these videos onto many I think its incredible what you have done. Do you have any techniques of meditation that are most effective in lowering entropy/evolving consciousness? should i go with completely silencing my mind or using mantra's or visualization or a combination of all?

[twcjr44]

@EscobaroWhite,

What works best is different for each individual -- find what is best for you by experimenting. Look here for some advice (web URLs are not allowed to be posted here so here are directions): Go to the MBT Forum click on the topic "Psi and the Paranormal", then search for the thread "Binaural beats as a meditation tool -- how to use them". The advice there applies to any methodology, not just binaural beats.

Tom

[twcjr44]

@EscobaroWhite,

I have not read "Conversations With God" but have sampled enough of it to say that, in general, it, like Seth Speaks and some other channeled material, offers many valuable insights and useful descriptions, explanations, and metaphors. However, like all material recieved from NPMR, it is necessarily limited by (tainted with) the beliefs, concepts, and understanding of the channeler who must interpret the message and translate it into written words.

Tom

[enfomy]

soundz like he's trying to solve one problem by creating another.

[haribharadwaj1]

This man 'sounds' intelligent, But is not.. Also I completely trust him when he says he experienced all those things, Sure! It IS possible.. But the inference is not really rational.. I recommend ppl to watch Dan Denett explain Free-Will.. will know how the concept was twisted in this talk..

[CottoFan1]

I fell asleep at my computer desk and dreamt that i was slipping on ice..it felt very real and i would have fallen only i woke up...

[ineedaname777777]

im bored

[Rys2sense]

you dont need free will, all you would need in memory

[ryuataru]

FUCK YEAH; REPPIN' TEH HORDE!

[JustusFriedolin]

this is the first time i get suspicious if this isnt just another esotherik bullshit, he evades the idea of having no free will completely, he has his own little definition which .. doesnt matter

[thewinesmith]

So, would you think it possible to some day have instrumentation that could quantify emotions in a more objective mannor?

[twcjr44]

The virtual body applies the constraints of the PMR rule-set to our perception -- what information and information processing that lies beyond the constraints of the body (the interpretations of consciousness) will not be contained within the body -- thus the body cannot divulge it. The body can only tell about the constraints it imposes (some limited number of types perhaps). The details of content belong to the consciousness.

[frankche1]

so if my experience is altered lets say under a substance hhmh THC, then my consciousness is going to be different and taken to new level?

[twcjr44]

@frankche1

That depends on how you interpret the word consciousness. My interpretation answers: No, your awareness and perception will be temporarily altered -- that's all. it is unlikely that you will derive any benefit to the quality of your consciousness from drug use. With casual or occasional drug use it is it is very likely that you will make improving the quality of your consciousness more difficult to achieve.

[frankche1]

@twcjr44 that makes more sense, thank you. I barely 17 , searching for truth, and i cant stop thinking about this. my mind doesnt seem to grasp the idea. thank you

[GateMessenger]

@frankche1 Many physicists have experienced OBE's, NDE's while being influenced by thought altering drugs like LSD. Physicist Roger G. Vogelsang said he used LSD to induce a NDE. Said he left his body & went down a tunnel leading to a bright light which looked like a star. When he got to the bright light he said he was scared & one thought ran through his mind over & over, "I am what I am." He met the object face to face & said he once felt like that when he was in love. Imagine that.

[Drastam]

Each reality frame is generated by a body; or more exactly, the experience of a reality is generated by a nervous system and a body.

People who have OOBE often find they still have a body; but the body is of a different 'physicality' than their earth body and generates experience of a different reality frame or world.

So realities are a function of bodies.

A body focuses consciousness in a specific reality frame.

[twcjr44]

No. The reality is generated by consciousness. The virtual body is also generated by consciousness -- it is just interpreted data like the rest of physical reality. Consciousness is the only fundamentally real thing -- all else is virtual (information constrained by a ruleset that is interpreted by a consciousness. The attributes and properties of different realities are defined by different rulesets.

[Drastam]

Does this mean you do not accept the results of neuroscience for instance. According to N the world is known via the medium of the nervous system. light for eg is transduced into electrochemical activity.

My understanding is that consciousness is aware of the activity of the nervous system.

Is this not correct?

[twcjr44]

That reality is generated by the nervous system is a belief, not a result. The virtual physical world does indeed appear to be known via the medium of the nervous system. However this is the result of the rule-set that defines our virtual physical reality -- there is nothing but consciousness, information, rule-sets, and interpretation. The virtual nervous system has evolved within the PMR simulation as an artifact of the rule-set -- it does not define reality -- it is defined by reality.

[Drastam]

I think it will take me a while to get my head around that.

I thought the body is an artifact of the biosphere - part of the living body of the earth - and we as spirits get to experience life in the living body of the earth through and as a human body/person. We are born into a planetary organism and have our human life in its body.

Most ordinary folk think my notion is pretty whacky.

Yours seems even whackier :)

But common sense is no measure of truth.

Thank you for the explanation.

[twcjr44]

The biosphere and universe are artifacts of consciousness - as are we. Your description ("I thought ...in its body") is a good metaphor of the relationship and function between us and our virtual reality (PMR/Earth). Clearly, it is based entirely in the little picture of the physical rather than the big picture of consciousness - but then, most metaphors necessarily are. I like it - it expresses that we are all One engaged in an interactive dance of creative experience. Truth supported by MBT.

[Drastam]

My view has been that we live in the living body of the earth, like individual cells live in our bodies. Humanity is a developing structure or organ in the body of the earth - a neocortex? In this century humanity will either realise this and begin to adapt to its planetary function, or it will not and become a cancer, a pathogen. Presently we are behaving like a pathogen - we are poisoning the biosphere (for ourselves).

I think this is what Cameron's movie Avatar is about.

[Drastam]

I think I am saying a PMR is a living organism that souls live in and as and embody and develop by their very living in it. Souls have their individual life and destiny as well as participating it the greater life process of the PMR organism.

[twcjr44]

I like all your metaphors - it is a productive and eloquent viewpoint.

You might reply: It is not just a metaphor, it is a fact.

I reply: Don't confuse any model of reality with reality. Everything we express in language (mentally or verbally) and most of our thought are necessarily metaphors. That is the nature of language. Believing that your model is reality and that reality is objective and physical is a logical error made by most, including most scientists. Yes, MBT is also just a model.

[Drastam]

Yes it is a model, and an earth PMR perspective; but I think it has some truth and utility at that level.

MBT is a model based on a multi-dimensional perspective.

I dont think either model excludes the other; they come from different perspectives and address different levels.

I dont have your experience in the other realms, so I am focused on the earth realm and the crisis facing the human world.

The planetary organism model seems to make the most sense of the data available to me thus far.

[Drastam]

So if this is right the actuality of a planet will depend on the consciousnesses living in it. Therefore the Earth is being changed by the very existence of human consciousness. The reality is changing itself through the agency of human consciousness.

[samann95014]

Have you watched the movie "What the bleep do we know?" & "The Secret"?

[samann95014]

Wow! What insights!! Very convincing. Glad to know of a simple but great mind alive today!

[Antisyncretism]

---

[twcjr44]

So this points to a initial creator?

Not in the usual sense. The Larger consciousness simply evolved from an extremely dim potential to what it currently is today. It is still evolving, as we are.

What is the nature of Consciousness itself?

Consciousness is a self-modifying digital information system.

What is the processor? Consciousness is the computer.

[RvNYC]

So this points a to initial creator, but what is the nature of Consciousness itself. Is it the system of rules. What is the processor?

[tidders2]

Do beings definitely have/possess/ consiousness ie inside of themselves or could it be an external substance of sorts that enters the mind through perhaps an energy field.

[twcjr44]

Evolution has no need for blueprints or a designer

[illuminartistry]

I wonder if the internet being an external form of the collective consciousness, if eventually through its use would lead to an AI being formed naturally and obsolete the need for a designer as if evolution of consciousness was intricit in the pattern of reality.

just a thought.

[piwacket33]

the wave collapses because someone observed the experiment, he said. But that's not true, the collapse took place when the DATA from a machine's OBSERVATION was RECORDED. When the scientists were "observing" without recording the event, then all possibilities were at hand, the minute that it was RECORDED (or become part of the record (akashic?)) then possibilities "met" the requirements of RECORDING the event. Apparently simply recording the event in the scientists minds alone isn't enough.

[wishIdpaidattention]

if, as many others are now expressing, one has an out of body experience, near death experience or spiritualy transforming event, then all this information makes incredible sense.

[twcjr44]

Skinbaggins: My understanding of why free will does not exist is that in some aspect, [everything] is predictable.

1) This is the deterministic view based on a Newtonian model that existed before quantum mechanics. How can such deterministic calculations be made when the particles upon which all matter depends are probabilistic not deterministic?

2) Material determinism's underlying assumption that consciousness is material (created by brains) is wrong, thus the conclusion is wrong.

[12thDecember]

I had to laugh when he said our universe is a nonphysical reality to other virtual realities with their own set of rules. I wonder, and perhaps will find out, if those other realities dismiss the possibility of our reality as easily as the skeptics in our reality dismiss other realities, just because they don't fit our "rules."

I'm curious how quickly most people would be able to adapt to experiencing other realities, though. All preconceived notions would have to be left behind.

[jokerbookshop]

salvia takes me to a "different physical matter reality."

[twcjr44]

Jtherva: ...We can change ..and once our understanding changes, our will, will change. The will...just follows what its told.

I don't disagree -- you have just changed (reduced the scope) of the definition of will.

How will is told by the brain, i have no idea

Will is not told by the brain -- it is informed by consciousness at the being level. Your small definition of will connected to consciousness produces the larger more complete view of will I use. Will is free to choose.

[Jtherva]

@twcjr44 I don't think so. The will is simply the brain doing its work, just like a computer processing information.

I must admit, I don't see why consciousness is neccissary, perhaps its just a side effect.. I don't see how you can say will is free to choose, every action can be explained in causality, if you have enough information you can predict with 100% accuracy what someone will choose.

[sidsmut22]

surely a computer would only compute the positive outcomes and their probability and choose the most viable?

why would a system choose to de-evolve?

the act of free will is in the subtle lessons learned and their effect on the rest of the system to produce positive or negative results that combine to create a better future understanding and therefore a more positive future outcome.

[Jtherva]

@sidsmut22 Im not sure what you mean by de-evolve. If you mean doing things which don't always directly increase our survival, then most of that is because evolution isnt perfect, but has made us in such a way which is enough for us to get by.

The reason we get pleasure from certain things is entirely the result of evolution guiding us to feel pleasure in things which increase survival and reproduction of us and our family. Evolution is our master really, we work for it really.

[sidsmut22]

"I'm not racist, but I believe peaceful mixing of cultures and races is really unrealistic"

this was taken from your comments on your page.

i dont think you have a lot to add to this discussion with views like that, your just gonna miss the point as far as im concerned.

one system one love and im in no way religious.

how can you be worth listening to if you distance yourself from your source like that?

your experience will be tainted and your observations irrelevent.

[Jtherva]

@sidsmut22 Listen to what you like, but im simply being realistic.

[sidsmut22]

thank you jtherva. i "will" use my free will to to choose what i would like to experience in life.

the whole point of the lecture is to bring your attention to the fact that "being realistic" isnt being realistic.

religious dogma and fear only holds us back ,let it go and find out what you are really all about.

come on in the waters lovely!!!

all that i feel is left to do is thank tom for his profound understanding of the the way things truly are and for sharing.

thank you tom.

[Jtherva]

@sidsmut22 You dont have any choice but to use your will to experience life. Believing in things because we want to, and they make us feel good are what reall holds us back.

[vietarc]

Godel should be included for his contribution to conciousness. Eistein dropped all his work just to hang out with Godel.

Reality is indeed a set of rules that all concious being agree to tune in. That means reality/rule can be change base on agreement of concious being. To change physics or physical reality, one have to have free will and prepare to jump outside of the box. If we understand conciousness, the progress will go much more smoothly.

[twcjr44]

hjahn47: Reality is only determined by those who perceive it. If not, who can verify that it is reality in the first place? I don't even see what consciousness has to do with it.

Without consciousness precieving it might be a little problematical.

Free will can never be explained as an effect of some cause. It is about the ability to choose from the available choices. One can rise above one's history and learn/grow (become different through self modification) and choose accordingly.

[Jtherva]

You have NO choice but to do what you think is best at the time, if you try to break this rule you'll find its impossible. The will works in this way only.

We can change our understanding of what is the best way to act and once our understanding changes, our will, will change in accordance. The will doesnt decide for itself it just follows what its told is best.

How will is told by the brain, i have no idea, perhaps some kind of pleasure threshold is broken then will starts.

[Necroman666]

@Jtherva, what you said is brilliant. And to my moment in special.

[skinbaggins]

My understanding of why free will does not exist is that in some aspect, however complex (probably much more complex than the human mind or our computers can conceive) is predictable. For instance, the exact placement, movement, velocity, distance and relation of every molecule of water to every other molecule of water in all the worlds seas is predictable on some level. Choosing a course is an effect based on trillions of chemical reactions happening in the life of ones brain. Big? noneth

[twcjr44]

Within MBT it is shown that free will is logically necessary for consciousness to exist as a stable system.

Tom

[Moonanite]

Free will is too big a question to get hung up I suppose. It is as you say, to have a better understanding we need a limited rule set to test in. I guess MBT is that rule set for this discussion.

[Moonanite]

The problem with free will and the idea of choice is that it is hard to prove 1. Because of all the biological/physiological/psych­ological variable components of behavior are at this time not fully understood and difficult to account for in an exercise of "choice".

2. Our perception of time in a linear cause and effect framework as in, Joe cannot take the apple and not take the apple in exactly the same conditions in time.

[Moonanite]

The greatest argument for free will in regards to consciousness may be self termination as it is likely ( likely because I'm so not and expert) to be in conflict with any instinctual or homeostatic motivator meaning it pertains to some "other" behavioral motivator that some may regard as free will. But whether this is indeed free will or an emergent behavior stemming from a humans complex biological/physiological/psych­ological parameters is debatable. "Will" may exist but is it also" free"?

[Jtherva]

Will exists but it can always be explained as an effect of some cause. So its cause and effect, theres nothing free in that. The very idea of free will is absurd.

[hjahn47]

In the reality of a man who believes in "free" will, there is definitely a free will. To those who believe in absolute cause and effect, there is destiny. Reality is only determined by those who perceive it. If not, who can verify that it is reality in the first place? I don't even see what consciousness has to do with it.

[underdogmilitia]

What happened to the audio.?....there was a distortion like someone using a microwave oven.

[twcjr44]

No, I have not read "Godel, Escher, Bach: Eternal Golden Braid". There is an entire rather long chapter in MBT Book 2 that defines free will, its logical necessity, and its origins. ( In comparason, this comment text box limits me to 500 Characters including spaces. ) In MBT you will find that free will and consciousness are a matched set -- each logically needs the other to exist..

[SirTubelot]

Thanks.

[twcjr44]

Probably not. If the robot MUST always produce the same choice (output) given the same identical stimulation (input), then the robot cannot be said to exhibit free will even within his limited decision space.

[SirTubelot]

I'm interested to know where our free will comes from. How can we be sure if free will can not be explained by our physical reality? Should we necessarily step out of the "box" of our physical reality to explain free will & consciousness?

Have you read "Godel, Escher, Bach: Eternal Golden Braid"? If yes, what are your views on it?

[SirTubelot]

"Feedback of the results of previous choice allow us to modify future choice (free will)"

We can construct a robot that can modify its future choice based on its sensory input. Does that mean the robot has free will?

[twcjr44]

We are one of the more constrained but not the most constrained. Ground zero R us -- an elementary school.

Tom

[OpenMind00]

objective consciousness is what we are trying to achieve is it not

Gurdjieff influence

First, awaken and become conscious, realize self consciousness and then attain objective consciousness

If the goal isn't objective consciousness, then we only have subjective consciousness and that can't be an accurate account of reality because its limited to your own warped influenced cultural view of reality, right?

Is this premise different in NPMR or are you describing something in a different context

[OpenMind00]

100 years from now, you and Bob Monroe etc will be considered the fathers of the new shift toward true self consciousness

- The 1000's of fragments of units of consciousnes broken off from the whole entity experiencing itself in a more efficient way as to lower entropy faster, Would that be similar to the I-there clusters that Bob talks about.

- Is this PMR the most physically restrained environment of all(or that you know of?) IE, is this (here) Ground Zero so to speak?

[relV6]

I cant believe you took acid when you were 14 ^^

rock on

[twcjr44]

Experiencing the larger reality through drug use is a very bad idea. It has little to no value. Teeny tiny up side -- huge downside. I do not, have not, will not use drugs to experience or explore the larger reality. I and anyone else can do so much more without drugs than can be done with. Using drugs to evolve the quality of your consciousness is like putting lead in your pockets to help you run faster -- a self defeating strategy.

[KindaGamey]

Re: lead in your pockets

Ah, but then think of how big your muscles would be when you take them off. I'm almost ready to remove mine.

[rowania]

what kinds of things can i do to explore hyperspace?

[twcjr44]

1- Learn to meditate and do it regularly

2 - read the My Big TOE trilogy to get an understanding of what "hyperspace" is all about and how and why it works.

Tom

[relV6]

what is your definition for meditation?

[relV6]

I have known people whom I believe benefited from their drug use. It helps people open their eyes. For the actual exploration , I think they are counter productive .

In my eyes, drugs are nothing but a portal to a different mode.

With that being said, I personally avoid the use of drugs for some time now, and that includes coffee and the likings.

[Pearljamkicksass]

Tom, are you talkinga bout acid tripping?

[nativeops]

all this came to me when i was 14, and i accidentally ate too much LSD.

it really opened my mind to the truth about reality. I'll never regret it.

[yesokdogod123]

what this guy needs to realize is that there is awareness in all things of all things. i`ve been to realities where all 'matter' was displayed by infinite distance from it`s self and that`s still a transfer of information.

[art1anson]

LSD definitely expanded my perceptions permanently. it made me capable of seeing the absurdity and randomness of existence and has since allowed me to take a perspective purged of the false understandings we gather from society. i had done some study about Huxley's scientific approach ahead of time and while i can't prove to that it wasn't just my imagination, as i experienced it, i understood the effect.

[nextandykaufman]

i love this stuff.

[Necroman666]

me too, i feed off of it.