Europe and Russia must become friends! The new economic zone would stretch from Portugal to the borders of Japan! The US does not like this idea! That's why they try to create trouble between Russia and Europe by using Poland! The US wants to install this Anti rocket shield in Poland and other countries to upset the Russians. Therefore the Russians will never start to become a friend of Europe! The US achieved there evil target to plant distrust. The English go fors help the Yankees to do so!
what boggles my mind is why Hitler invaded russian? especially after history lesson with Napoleon! if Hitler wasnt so arrogant he could have extended the war much longer. could u imagine if those resources were used in the eastern front were allocated toward the western? ................Damn Europe got lucky
The Allies had obtained an Enigma machine from a sunken U-Boat and were reading German code. They German rarely changed wheels or code as they thought it was so secure. Russians knew Operation Citadel was coming and were well prepared with multiple concentric lines of Defense.
@dickfairfax Zhukov had complete information about every german formation at KURSK, from partisans ,from spies in german high command and even from british spies.
Anyway KURSK was a big mistake because germans after STALINGRAD lacked enough infantry, they just bleed important reserves and soldiers that couldn't be replaced, another of HITLER'S BLUNDERS.
@ewpatiy ты че гавна поел что ли? В операции "цитадель" использовались все танки вермахта, начиная от бронемашин, танкеток и заканчивая тиграми и САУ. Еще ссовские элитные танковые дивизии, правда не успели перебросить часть "звериных танковых батальонов" (тигры, фердинанты и т.д.) из-за эффективной рельсовой войны (тут большая заслуга партизанам). И кстати у большинства партизан, особенно вольно наемных с соседних деревень погон не было, так что видео 100% подготовлено как раз перед операцией.
@SexyKristi :) Ха, мадам однако... Ты чЁ злая какая? :) Что-то много пленных партизан в форме регулярной армии, модификация трешки очень похожа на Pz.3 E, вряд ли они дожили до Курской дуги. Вот и предположил, что ролик смонтирован из разных хроник. Для справки, там еще Голиафов использовали (самоходные мины) :)
The Soviet Union won but I can't say Communism is a better form of Government than National Socialism. Stalin's form of Communism more closely resembled Nationalism than Communism which is why it is referred to as Stalinism.
Кстати, на западном фронте союзники так и не нашли эффективного противоядия против Тигров. Если бы не подавляющее превосходство союзников в воздухе, немцы давали бы прикурить им по-полной. ;)
Об этом много говорилось в Дискавери. Когда американцы и англичане впервые увидели ИС-2, то они никак не могли понять как такую пушку можно установить на танк, пусть и тяжелый. :)
1) в то время у наших не было эффективных средств против новейших немецких танков и самоходных орудий. Т-34-76 не мог эффективно бороться с Тиграми и Пантерами. В начале войны, КВ и Т-34 с такой же легкостью также уничтожали немецкие танки, как Тигры и Пантеры - Т-34-76.
2) не все советские танки были подбиты с земли. Немцы устанавливали на свои штурмовики зенитные пушки и также могли легко подбивать танк
@tyskbulle Please note that every good historian always refers to some sources and he mentions where he found out it. Where are the sources your respectable authors refer to? Imagine you are historian, you need to find out, how many people were killed somewhere, 50 years ago or something. How u can do that? How u will estimate it? What data and information u will use to derive the numbers? Come on, please share with me the sercet of the information search of your ''respectable historians''.
@tyskbulle Do you see the difference in two things, when entire country surrenders in 1 month, and when entire country fights to the end and wins? No? Then we have nothing to speak about, as I said before, victors don't have to justify themselves, and French now need protectors like you to at least try to find some excuses of being routed. 15 to 1 in Winter War? Actually 1.5 to one in 1939, 2 to 1 in 1940, please don't attache here any fairytales, ok?
@tyskbulle Also please note, that if we take into account Wehrmacht with its new territories and their sattelites, we can see that they had equal manpower as the Soviet Union. And considering that up to December 1941, 78 millions of the Soviet citizens felt under the occupation, the Soviets had actually much less manpower than Axis. So please keep your fantasies about outnumbered Nazis to yourself.
@tyskbulle Yes man. RUSSIAN archives are pretty good for working with the RUSSIAN history. ''Kruschev during the cold war woud condem Stalin.'' I was actually about to provide you the documents which were prepaired in 1953 under Khrushev's order to provide the number of purged people by Stalin they were counting all the dossies, Khrushev wanted to use it against Stalin's history. he was anti-Stalinist, but even he couldn't exceed the numbers, cos above some historians fantasies there are facts.
@tyskbulle And ''respectable historians'' work with archives. Otherwise everything what they said is just a water under the bridge, vox, empty phrases, nothing. If they didn't work with archives they are not historians but ordinary storytellers. Which archives can show the number of purges in the USSR? Of course the SOVIET archives only. So they had to work with our documents, but they didn't, so they came up with some random numbers, because propaganda needs to besmirch the USSR.
@Vort3xz Again, Ive said it before. The archives are far from incomplete and has basicly no figures at all important areas, that 800 000 were exectued are most likely correct. But they dont take into account the famine of the Ukraine in 30s or the massive deportations of ethnic minorites that cost over to 4 million lives. Historians dont take soviet archives and write books and publications "today" whit the asumption that these even close to realistic. Wy woud the west make propoganda in 2011?
@tyskbulle As for the archives. It would be discover for you, but every prison has registration of its prisoners. And the Soviet Union had it and it was counted. 642 000 sentenced to the capital punishment. Just admit that fact. As for the starving in Ukraine and ethnic cleanings, there is a statistif of the demography in USSR, you will not find any ''over 4 millions lives'' there while the Soviet fertility rate was always the same.
@Vort3xz So what we basicly are doing here, Is that you are argueing that russian archives are the one and only good source of information that we can work whit. In other countries, whit other dictators sutch as Pol Pot in kambodja there are no archives at all, but researchers try to figure out how many people died. Research make numbers of estimations . 90% of western/eastern historians agree that 15-20 million died during Stalins reign, even Kruschev during the cold war woud condem Stalin.
@tyskbulle ''hit other dictators sutch as Pol Pot in kambodja there are no archives at all'' Yes, it is very wise to compare Kambodja and USSR, worth the rank ''respectable historian''. Let's also say now that the European Union data and documents about its current economical situation means nothing, because in Somalia you won't find any data at all. Or that the FBI number of the prisoners registrated in USA means nothing, cos in Afghanistan there is no registration at all.
@tyskbulle About Stalin. You want the documents, real scanned documents with counted number of imprisoned and executed people by years? I can provide it to you, your historians didn't provide any evidences, while in Russian archives everything was documented. And you will never find there 17 millions of people. The purge killed 642 000 people. It is a number based on the counted dossiers. Yes eastern front was not just a russian bath, but russians were basically fighting alone vs 7 countries
im amazed at the way people think russia was so great. they used english and american material and without this they would have lost .there gear there stratagy and having no concern for there soldiars life made them terrible commanaders. and the normal russian army was lost completly germany was fighting the leftover asain masses that russia had to use. russia was the sess pools of humanity in that time period ( look at whet they did to the poles and never said im sorry)
@69heydrich Silly. At first, the USSR and Germany had equal military casualties. Second, US land lease was only 4 % of the total Soviet manufactore. And majority of the materials came only up to the summer of 1943, when the Soviet Union already won Moscow and Stalingrad battles. If you think Russia would loose without your 4% after 1943 you are very naive. And please don't lecture us about humanity, type in google ''how many people died during the greatest depression'' and see the US humanity.
im amazed at the way people think russia was so great. they used english and american material and without this they would have lost .there gear there stratagy and having no concern for there soldiars life made them terrible commanaders. and the normal russian army was lost completly germany was fighting the leftover asain masses that russia had to use. russia was the sess pools of humanity in that time period ( look at whet they did to the poles and never said im sorry) VICTOR JUSTICE
@Vort3xz Where exactly he said or wrote it? The source? The book, when it was published? And btw why France needed the planes like Potez and fast-attacking tanks like SOMUA? And why all their forces were formed up to the border? Probably France wanted to attacke!!! And why UK had attacking type flee? Their linkors were attacking type? Ah yes I get it, they wanted to attack too!!!!! Everybody wanted to attack Hitler, but this guy has perfect timing lol
''Killed his own soldiers often, purged the country in an act with 5 times as many deaths as the holocaust, etc'' Hahahahaahahahahahah, nice man! Sources? Of course you don't have any sources again. And I have the sources, the soviet arhives about the number of repressed people from 1921 to 1954
@redreaper2020 ''Stalin was never a "savior". Stalin & Hitler were almost identical'' Of course they were the same. It's Stalin who occupied the whole Europe including France, it is Stalin who bombed UK (Operation Sea Lion) and started a campagain against Brits in Africa. It's Stalin's ally - Japan who bombed US pearl harbour. It is Stalin who wrote the plan ''Operation Unthinkable'' and treacherously planned to attack his allies. Yes man you are right, I see the common sense in your words
@Vort3xz Stalin invaded korea, stalin let the poles fight to the death against the nazis in 44 before taking over Poland, stalin planned on initially taking half of poland for himself (mol-rib pact). Stalin took over half of germany and tried to blockade berlin. Stalin invaded finland, He often promised independence to conquered states and then made them tight-knit allies of the USSR. Killed his own soldiers often, purged the country in an act with 5 times as many deaths as the holocaust, etc
@redreaper2020 Stalin let Poles fight to death against nazis? Yea and why 600 000 soviet troops magically died freeing Poland? Cos Poles were fighting alone? '' Stalin invaded korea'' It's very strange but I've seen there only american troops. But probably it doesn't matter, Stalin probably also invaded Iraq, Vietnam, Afghanistan too yes :D ''Stalin invaded finland'' where is the info about occupation of Finald? There was a war for the small piece of land near Leningrad, but not occupation.
@redreaper2020 Just for comparison, Stalin imprisoned 3.7 mil. people during 1923-1954 period. In 1999 the number of prisoners in United States of America was 2 million.
@Vort3xz 1.) where the hell did you get the 3.7 mil figure from? Pulled it out of your ass? And in the US, we had more people. In 1940 the ussr had 196,716,000, the US had in 1999 about 300 million. Also, US prisoners are in far better conditions, and usually have FAR shorter sentences (1-2 years vs maybe 10 or 20) for the same crime.
Just FYI: Stalin is estimated as being responsible for the deaths of 20 to 30 million people. Also, he conquered eastern europe just as hitler did.
@redreaper2020 I linked u the archives, 3 tables with detailed info about how many prisoners there were, what terms they had and how many of them were sentenced to death penalty. Do you know the russian history? How can u compare 30s and nowaday in terms of conditions? Russia had a civil war and revolution in 1917-1924. And in nowadays the quality of life in the whole world is MUCH better.As for 30s, should I remind ya about the US quality of life? Are you familiar with the greatest depression?
@redreaper2020 Estimated by whom? 30 millions? Check the population of the soviet union by years. Russia lost 27 million in a war (20 million civilians killed by Hitler and 7 millions military losses). So if you add your fantasy 30 millions, how can USSR maintain normal fertility rate? Why in the population statistic we can see only 27m casualties of war population decreased during 1941-1945, but there is no losses of any 30 million?
@Vort3xz The russian losses during world war two have been highly debated by historians over the decades, but at the same time the Soviet Union and Germany had diffrent ways of counting losses. In terms of military dead, Germany is estimated around 5,5 million and the Soviet Union 8-11 million. Number of civilian deaths on the east front Is unknown, but roughly 15-25 million Is the most common estimation. Some count Stalins war crimes pre-war to pro-war and then you have to add 10-20 million.
@tyskbulle Dude, I can give you the link in PM on the scans of the Russian Archives, there are elaborate tables of how many people were imprisoned and sentenced to the capital punshment. If you are not interested in these documents just listen. It was imprisoned 4 millions people 800 000 of them sentenced to the capital punishment , but for 168 000 of them the sentence was eventually changed. Thus, under Stalin, 642 000 people were executed. Not 10-20 millions like Western Historians claim.
@tyskbulle Germany didn't have enough data of its casualties cos a lot of its archives were destroyed and the country was divided for almost 45 years so a lot of the remained docs are scattered. The fact is that Germany mobilized 17 millions soldiers against USSR and on the eve of the battle for Berlin, Germany already had to recruit 12-13 years old kids and over 60 years oldmen, cos they didn't have enough soldiers. So 5.5 millions it is quite underestimated number due to the lack of data.
@tyskbulle Now let's turn to the Soviet casualties. (my answer about Stalin and German casualties see in the two posts below). The Soviet data base of losses includes 8.6 million millions dossies, this database may be checked on the website called ''obd-memorial''. But I took 7 million casualties as an actual number of the soldiers that the Soviet Union lost on the battlefields. While approx. 2 - 3 millions of the Soviet Soldiers died in the German camps as prisoners of war.
@Vort3xz German casualties did not include wounded men, If we take the battle of Kursk only 1 of 5 were killed, these number are considerable better then thier russian counter parts. The germans had over 500 000 casualties in the massive failed offensive at Kursk but only roughly 150 000 were dead or missing. Historians agree that Soviet records are incomplete and that they do not represent a realistic view of deaths in specific areas, thats wy it is so mutch controversy around the subject.
@tyskbulle Of course there are no 100% accurate statistic. But German casualties are not full and I've already explained, why the German archives have lack of data, the Soviet archives are more accurate on that issue because all documents remained safe. When we compare the Soviet/Axis casualties you should also take into account more than 1 million died Finnish, Hungarian, Romanian, Italian, Croatian, Bulgrarian soldiers which were also fought on the Eastern front against the Soviet Union.
@Vort3xz Indeed, Its important to notice that Germany were not the only Axis power, if we include the Axis many people will come to realise that the eastern front were not just a russian blood bath. No archives are ever truely accurate, but I coud not agree that more then 6 million germans fell in combat, its also questionable if the german volkssturm "milita" is considerd military deaths, sense they were so fastly mobilized that no records coud be accurate during battles sutch as Berlin.
@tyskbulle And also I want to answer this quote ''its also questionable if the german volkssturm "milita" is considerd military deaths''. You know, my grandfather had never been a military before the WW II and he had never even carry any gun in his hads before. He was a teacher of mathematics, but he was drafted in 1942. So in Soviet military losses there are also a lot of non-military people who were not militaries initially but were like u said ''fastly mobilized''.
@Vort3xz Im glad some russians at least try to remove the hole image that the Soviet Union were a incompetent fighting force during WW2. Indeed it didnt start well but the Soviet Union grew to be the biggest most awsome arsenal of modern warfare, russian military achivements are often overshadowed by the early war failures, tactics and carelessly use of human life by generals and dictators sutch as Stalin.
@tyskbulle Carelessly? Man can you understand that it was a WAR?Or you think it was possible to win just with one battalion? While the USA and the UK could simply watch staying overseas the USSR didn't have that choice, it was attacked and had to defend itself and you claim about careless usage of human lifes? And who used it carefully? Ah I remember, France. And Paris gave up just in one day. Obviosly unlike Soviet generals and Stalin, French generals were genious in the military science, yes.
@Vort3xz I do consider sending mass charges whit poorly or no trained soldiers against almost impossible odds is to have no care for human life, It wasnt exactly the west fronts. And France have been tarnished enough, considering that they were the best fighting force after the germans in WW1 they fell to the blitzkrieg mutch like the Soviet Union in 1941 and half of Europe. They lasted for 30 days.The UK did far from nothing, how about delaying german tank production by 50% a hole summer?
@tyskbulle USSR won while France was taken in 30 days. For comparison it took several months for Germans to take just one Odessa having 340 000 troops against 34 000 Soviet troops. The Soviet Union made a stubborn resistance in the beginning and delayed its occupation before regrouping the troops. And subsequently the Soviet Union won, won against the united Europe, while France supported by UK bletcherously lost. Victors don't have to justify themselves. And you have nothing against this fact.
@Vort3xz As for france vs soviet defences, its safe to say that russia coud afford losses during the early days of the war due to massive space and manpower. This was not something that france had, so stop bashing that country. As for Soviet archives and just "capital punishment" lets just agree to disagree then, clearly you have not ready anything but small specific numbers from soviet archives. Please keep living inside your bubble so you wont have to deal whit the real world.
@tyskbulle I have ready at least five things. Arhives, military soviet reports, demographic statistic of the USSR, post-Stalin's count of the died people under Stalin's regime, many Russian historians who were working with all these stuff I just mentioned for years, such historains like Igor Pykhalov, Alexey Isaev, Vladislav Shved and so on, and I personally know many vets and people who used to live in Stalin's period the real whitnessers of these times.
@tyskbulle When I was redg western historians I didn't actually found any sources they refer to. Explain me Mr. Smart Historian, how can you estimate the number of dead people without counts or without any report statistics, docs from the time when they died? Or in your country, probably when you have elections you do not cast the votes? Your politicians just say ''we have estimated that N number of people vote for the X candidate'', right? So sorry man, but there is only you live in the bubble.
@tyskbulle As for France, again you provide non-scientific excuses. In the French campagain there were involved 1 500 000 of the German troops. While France had 3 000 000 plus British troops, plus some parts of the Belgium and Dutch armies too. in 1940 Germans didn't have so much manpower as in the Eastern campagain, German sattelites were not involved in the French campagain, except for Italy which joined in the last stage when French were already defeated.
@Vort3xz As for my information, I read books. Books from respectable authors and researcher, Im no historian, even said I was. But excuse me if I take thier word far beyond you or your archives. This discussion Is over sense there Is no point in rabbling whit people living in thier own world.
@tyskbulle So explain me how come that more than 3 500 000 troops surrendered to 2 500 000 Germans just in 30 days while in 1941 it took 3 months to take Odessa witth 34 000 Soviet soldiers, it took 2 months to take Smolensk where there were 1200 000 Gers against 560 000 Sovs? What about Brest Fortress? Why they couldnt take Kiev and other towns so fast being overnumbered? The thing is that in the Soviet case Blizkrig failed. The Soviet troops protected each square meter very persistantly.
@tyskbulle So please stop protect the country which was entirely and tarnishly routed. And in fact it was not only France. French/British troops were routed, routed without any chance, routed almost without worth resistancem routed very disgracefully and dishonourably. Both armies were fooled by the German tactic, and didn't even make a stand, Brits barely managed to escape through La Manche. And the SU won, and the SU was the first country which ruined the myth about unbeatable German army.
@Vort3xz So what if brittish and frence troops were routed? Dishonorably? Get a grip, like this didnt happen on the eastern front were hundreds of thousends of russian troops were surrounded in pockets and surrenderd? Or was thier surrender less dishonorable? No wait they were just traitors. Speaking of Odessa, sutch situations allways exists in war, another example is the winter war were the finns were outnumbers by 15 to 1. In the right situation numbers dont have the same significantcy.
@Vort3xz Often western archives, includeing german ones have been far more accurate then thier eastern counterparts and the german death toll is generaly agreed as correct by most historians, have not seen any debates on the matter. During my studies however Ive notice that its extremely common to count german soldiers and civilian deaths during the war into one number, thats estimated around "roughly 8-10 million" And its been viewed as german miltiary deaths far to commonly.
@Vort3xz As for Stalin, the subject have been highly debated, ignoreing cold war facts and lissening to publications of recent studies during the last two decades most historians agree that Stalin and his regim of "terror" costed at the least 17 million lives during his regin. These numbers do not include military deaths but exectuions or forced deportation and purges during war time. The most respectable historians of WW2 do agree whit this number, and roughly "20" million is just a estimate.
@redreaper2020 ''Also, he conquered eastern europe just as hitler did.'' As just HItler? Check how many people died on the occupied by Hitler territories, especially Poland, Yugoslavia and USSR. Stalin has liberated the East Europe, and after the war, unlike Germans, the Sovit troops have withdrawn these territories. And the Soviet Union didn't annex these territories. Stop listen to stupid propaganda and watch for the facts please.
@Vort3xz propaganda? Wtf? Propaganda by allied powers would have defended the sovs, not made them look worse! Your argument is breaking down.
On the "oh withdrew after the war" I encourage you to open your eyes and look at all the soviet military interventions and civil uprisings and puppet governments. That's like saying the nazis withdrew from France.
@redreaper2020 My argument is pretty accurate russian documents and statistic of the soviet demography. You don't have any arguments except for the liers like Suvorov (aka Rezun) who was critisized even by many Western historians. Because Rezun has never revealed his sources. Simply because they don't exist. OK name me the countries where the Soviet Troops remained after the war. And I will remind you Vietnam, Korea, Iraq, Afghanistan, bombings of Libya and Yugoslavia, nuclear bombing of Japan.
AnyTHING that subscribes to the VERMINSCUM MUD of "nazism" *IS* by *DEFINITION* = SUBHUMAN VERMINSCUM THAT NEEDS TO BE SIMPLY EXTERMINATED AS THE VERMINSCUM THAT THEY ARE.
TO ALL THE SUBHUMAN NAZI VERMINSCUM: the nazigermanverminscum *INVADED* the Soviet Union/Russia!
If it'd been THE OTHER WAY AROUND then I'd give A LITTLE sympathy to the subhuman untermenschen vermin scum nazi GERMANS but THE UNTERMENSCHEN SUBhuman nazi GERMANS were the ones that *INVADED* the Soviet Union/Russia.
Go fucking die SUBHUMAN VERMINSCUM *UNTERMENSCHEN* GERMAN *APOLOGISTS* VERMINSCUM!
THE FUCKING *GOOD* SIDE WON OVER THE FUCKING *UNTERMENSCHEN* *EVIL* SIDE!!!!!!!!!!!
@lukebccb Stalin planned on invading europe in the mid forties, at the end of the 3rd 5-year-plan. Sovs planned on betraying the Germans. The only difference was that Germany got the jump on them. That's not propaganda, but well-documented in RUSSIAN sources--Viktor Suvorov, a defecting Soviet tank general, even wrote a book about it.
Nazis were bad, but many of their ideas were not as radical at the time as they are now. Public opinion is different about things now.
@redreaper2020: sorry suvorov's word's are worth shit as his "arguments" are purely conjecture. Suvorov's "arguments" based on NO facts makes suvorov's "argument" as valid as those who counter him with their own conjectures.
The subhuman vermin nazi SCUM *INVADED* the Soviets/Russians *FIRST* so the subhuman vermin nazi SCUM carry the weight of being *INVADERS* historically.
Nazis - SUBHUMAN VERMIN SCUM.
The only good nazi subhuman vermin scum is one that has been exterminated.
@lukebccb Actually if you understand military strategy, you'd know that it isn't conjecture, it's backed by facts. Also it fits soviet doctrine, and was very, very well-documented.
And isn't it really, really ironic, that you call nazis "Subhuman vermin scum", the same words they used? So, you're using, quite LITERALLY, the exact same words that they used in their most radical speeches, to describe them--making you NO BETTER than them!!
The commie sub-human scum invaded Poland. You got exactly what you deserved. The only shame is that the West did not nuke you out of Central Europe in 1945 that you imprisoned for 50 years.
@redreaper2020 There are no such documents exist abount plannings of invading Europe or attacking Germany lol, provide the link on the scanned copies otherwise. I know russian language and I can tell ya that all soviet documents published in books are in free access in internet in form of scanned copies.I checked several times the internet, there are no scanned copies of the ''documents'' which Suvorov provided, he's writing his books according to how his British masters ask him.
@Vort3xz They have better defectors to expose that than just a tank general.
have you ever reviewed their tactical layouts in the early forties? The BT tank is useless in a defensive role its armor is too light, yet they had TONS of them. Airborne divisions are virtually useless in a defensive role, yet the Red Army in the late 30s was churning them out, even experimenting with dropping tanks.
@Vort3xz All the soviet formations were old and formed up on the border...yet new, far better ones were magically appearing from deep within the soviet union. While yes, many of them were quickly formed, the trained commanders and the designs require time to acquire--the best designs of the war were from before it. These were invasion armies already being created. While "common history" would invalidate them, knowledge of tactics and stalinist methods make it all too clear.
@redreaper2020 Hahaha, who told ya that? No really who told you that? It's a Myth about all soviet formations destroyed on the border, they were wide spreaded in West Russia, Belarus and Ukraine these territories are pretty vast. How better ones appeared? Because the Soviet Union was also waiting hit from Japan, and the first victory over Nazis was when it became clear that Japan is not interested in a war with Russians, so they transfered the troops from far Eastern to the Moscow battle.
@redreaper2020 And obviously if a country is fighting and unlike some Frenchy freaks does not surrender in 1 month, this obviously means they were creating ''invading army'' lol. Y'see, Germans had ''Plan Barbarossa'', can you provide any plan about attacking Germany from the Soviet Union? No you can't cos it's a MYTH.
You obviously have no idea about tactical employment, about the role of airborne and tank armies, or of mid 30s soviet doctrine. Besides which virtually every country over the past 100 years has had at least a plan on how to invade any other country, even staunch allies.
You're grossly generalizing facts in order to avoid an underlying truth. China resisted Japan for years, yet they weren't planning to invade.
@redreaper2020 Gimme the link on the Soviet doctrine of mid 30s ok? And well, at least I have arguments, and you don't have them. You didn't provide any documents yet u said that ''but well-documented in RUSSIAN sources'' it's your quote. In Russian sources there is no mention of any plannings to attack Germany. And your tone only shows your backwoods mentality, that's pretty common for persons who loose in any discussions and can't prove anything with the facts.
@Vort3xz Read "Inside the Soviet Army", look over any declassified documents of the 30s, or just learn basic doctrine. You want a link? Look it up yourself
wintersonnenwende com/scriptorium/english/archives/articles/stalwarplans html
@redreaper2020 Very funny man. This article is not the soviet doctrine. And this article refers to Suvorov. No documents or something. No any letters signed. While the German plan about the plannings of attack was developed in 1940 and I provided ya the link on this document. So stop saying shit please.
Do ya actually know that when the country wants to attack smdy there is a plan always exists? Where are the real soviet documents in russian? You, haven't provided them, nor Suvorov has.
@redreaper2020 Plus, have u actually ever red the book Mein Kampf written by Hitler? For your information this book was published long before Hitler took a power in Germany. In this book Hilter openly revealed that he despised bolshevism and ideally sought to free the east from its grip by conquering the Soviet Union. You have no docs, while I have Hitler's personally written book and official German document about invading the Soviet Union. So keep your and Suvorov's fantasies to yourself.
The truth of the matter is if the Africa Corps would have been given the upmost of importance when it came to resupply and Operation Barbarossa postponed you might have seen a different end to the war.
As to the emending defeat, well it wasn't the Militaries fault.. Hitler was considered the Allies best General, over reaching his boundaries and fighting a 2 front war, the loss of North Africa do to not controlling the Med. and resupplying Rommel Army, believing that the Italians Generals actually had any ability to do anything right.
The German military was possibly the finest fighting force ever created the innovations, technology, tactics the re-writing of how wars are fought, You can point fingers and call them less than human for the killing of millions but the truth is that only a small portion of people were involved in this genocide.. We tend to forget Stalin, Mao Zedong, Khmer Rouge, Americas policies involving the Native American just to name a few...
It is a shame that the germans let themselves being misled and being used by such a regime.. If they used the roman approach then we probarbly all speak german... But they thought they were better then everyone else,.. Such a shame of sloughtering and sacrificing such prommessing generation..
Why do people always think that they are the only ones who have te full right on the truth??
Mankind will destroy itself and is just a fase ... War is horror.. Nothing heroic about war.. Or something to idealise.. You probarbly have to experience war before knowing what really matters in life.. Maybe later wisdom comes with the years
The battlefield in Kursk was filled with many hundreds of burnt tanks and crashed aircraft, and so many dead soldiers. The difference was that while the
In the summer of 1943, in the battle of Kursk, the much weaker German army broke its fist and lost its best remaining units in its attempt to regain the initiative in one last major attack, for which the Russians were fully prepared.
Thanks to their "Lucy" spy network, which operated high ranking sources in Germany via Switzerland, the Russians didn't just expect the German attack, they knew all about it. They received the full details of the German plan, and the Russian military intelligence was able to verify most details in the front to ensure that the information was real, not disinformation.
The Russians prepared eight defense lines one behind the other, and also positioned their entire strategic mobile reserve
Why people don't learn history? Who comes with weapon to Russia, dies anyway - it is historically proven dogma. How many b1tches Russia must slap (Napoleon, Hitler, Karl XII etc.) to make it clear: DON'T MESS WITH RUSSIANS!!! DON"T WAKE A SLEEPING BEAR. All wars vs Russia lead to catastrophe of war initiator. Only clinical idiot can decide to start war with the bravest nation in the world which live in the largest country on planet 1/9 of all land belongs to Russia.
when ever you see war propaganda it really shows how similar everyone is. really it seems the same glory for your country and the adventure of a lifetime... ha we all tell the same lies.
BTW, propaganda doesn't show how german soldiers suffered and were killed too. anyone here thinks german mothers and fathers were happy gearing their sons were being killed because Hitler brainwashed them?
It's crazy, how humans can be so zombified and told to burn down half a planet.....
Greetings to Peter Hansen, the only one Chilean and one of the few South Americans who belonged to the Waffen SS with the highest military ranks .. and was one of the few generals who were not accused of war crimes ...
He could not return to Chile after the war ...
You can not be honored, the censorship of the winners ..
@bohemianh , or sand nigger terrorists...guaranteed, theres no way those carpet pilots would be running around this planet with the SS soldiers walking this earth today, you can bet the farm on that. Cheers
So there are so many smart asses here and none of You know haw did the German army lost this battle. Germans had all the advantages all, the terrain, soldiers , amo, supply, alt- batteries and tanks, plus at the start they were winners, and at the middle the winners too, but what did the Russians did at the end that change all of it.?.The out come of this action was clas- info and shared with allied later. It was a massive air ride, one after another, and another.Soviet Air superiority won.
you're oversimplification and labeling doesn't have currency with those who know better; the "nazis" as you call them were legion. Germany at the outset of WW2 had 80 million citizens; many (most) were "nazis" and believed in Der Fuhrer, only a small fraction of one percent had anything to do with so-called war crimes!
This is fact; if you want show your ignorance further, pls. reply...
You missed my point and I didn't mean that all Germans were criminals, not at all. I'm just annoyed how hypocritical most Russians are and how they forget or are ignorant how brutal their own regime was. Eastern Europe women could also tell a lot how the glorious red army treated(=raped) masses of women both young and old in the conquered areas.
I am not "justifying" either sides ugly behavior, but in war "shit happens"; it is more about understanding why things happened the way they did; because that is what being a historian is about in part.
"Justifying" often depends on what side you choose to take.
@kampela00 you sound like you was there or even was raped yourself by terrible soviet troops.On german soil - yes soviets did let it go,but guess what - germans were killing russian women ,children and old for 4 years.What goes around - comes around.And stop bullshitting about rapes in eastern Europe.if they happened - soviet soldiers were executed for that after a brief field court.That's a fact.Also a fact that for one killed german soldier they would kill 100 civilian hostages(kids,women..)
@vuikenshtein I'd recommend you for example Antony Beevor's "Berlin: The Downfall 1945". Lot's of interesting war history and pretty objective in my opinion too. You might discover what's fact and what's not. I'm not trying to defend Germany's horrible war crimes. It's just that I think Russians were'nt much better either in many ways.
@kampela00 I will read this book.It's never too late to learn new things.Here is one thing though - Russians WERE better then Germans.You know why? Couse we didn't attack them first.We didn't sent people to deathcamps only becouse of their nationality.We didn't execute 100 German civilians for each one of our soldiers killed in Germany.And finally - We were not the ones to use the Nuclear Bomb on civilians.
@vuikenshtein Russian attacked into Finland '39 and before that occupied Baltic countries and part of Poland. During 30's and 40's Stalin's regime made huge population transfers, eliminated masses of ppl based on nationality and race and send ppl to Siberia. It's been estimated that Stalin killed far more his own ppl than Nazi's managed to do (20 million according to The Black Book of Communism). Surprising eh? Who's better and who's not, it's not so black and white right?
@kampela00 You info is simply wrong.Black Book of communism?! LoL:-) I refer to historical facts.Germans killed over 25 million Soviets.Stalin killed 10 million.Which is still a lot.My wive's parents met in Siberia.Her dad was from Ukraine and mom from Belarus.But you know what,we know all those things about Stalin.And i'm not his biggest fan.All of you ,westerners, SHOULD BE his fans.
Possibly sniffing cacaine, new SS wonder medicine? :))))
DanielCorniciuc 3 weeks ago
Europe and Russia must become friends! The new economic zone would stretch from Portugal to the borders of Japan! The US does not like this idea! That's why they try to create trouble between Russia and Europe by using Poland! The US wants to install this Anti rocket shield in Poland and other countries to upset the Russians. Therefore the Russians will never start to become a friend of Europe! The US achieved there evil target to plant distrust. The English go fors help the Yankees to do so!
Homegirl00005 4 weeks ago
@Homegirl00005 respec to russia from america
Sgreenenov13 3 weeks ago
@Homegirl00005 LOL sure
curdog353 4 days ago
this war was stupid, unnecessary, cruel and ended all wrong for everybody, with lasting effects until today. well done mr hitler
333Chrome 1 month ago
Yea but we won you German piece of shit.
olegb580 2 months ago
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what boggles my mind is why Hitler invaded russian? especially after history lesson with Napoleon! if Hitler wasnt so arrogant he could have extended the war much longer. could u imagine if those resources were used in the eastern front were allocated toward the western? ................Damn Europe got lucky
Tucker1796 2 months ago
Super video
musate 2 months ago
The Allies had obtained an Enigma machine from a sunken U-Boat and were reading German code. They German rarely changed wheels or code as they thought it was so secure. Russians knew Operation Citadel was coming and were well prepared with multiple concentric lines of Defense.
dickfairfax 3 months ago 4
@dickfairfax Zhukov had complete information about every german formation at KURSK, from partisans ,from spies in german high command and even from british spies.
Anyway KURSK was a big mistake because germans after STALINGRAD lacked enough infantry, they just bleed important reserves and soldiers that couldn't be replaced, another of HITLER'S BLUNDERS.
MrBobe9 2 days ago
das ich niht fantastish propogannd!
August1082011 3 months ago
Все эти немецкие "герои" сдохли)))) Собаке-собачья смерть!!! Добро пожаловать в Россию!
Sosed0703 3 months ago 6
Alle diese deutschen "Helden" sind tot)))) Der Hund, ein Hund den Tod! Welcome to Russia!
Sosed0703 3 months ago
Какая-то лажа в этой хронике... Пленные без погон, танки Т-3.... Смесь бульдога с носорогом.
ewpatiy 4 months ago
@ewpatiy ты че гавна поел что ли? В операции "цитадель" использовались все танки вермахта, начиная от бронемашин, танкеток и заканчивая тиграми и САУ. Еще ссовские элитные танковые дивизии, правда не успели перебросить часть "звериных танковых батальонов" (тигры, фердинанты и т.д.) из-за эффективной рельсовой войны (тут большая заслуга партизанам). И кстати у большинства партизан, особенно вольно наемных с соседних деревень погон не было, так что видео 100% подготовлено как раз перед операцией.
SexyKristi 3 months ago
@SexyKristi :) Ха, мадам однако... Ты чЁ злая какая? :) Что-то много пленных партизан в форме регулярной армии, модификация трешки очень похожа на Pz.3 E, вряд ли они дожили до Курской дуги. Вот и предположил, что ролик смонтирован из разных хроник. Для справки, там еще Голиафов использовали (самоходные мины) :)
ewpatiy 3 months ago
We got English Speaking, Russian Speaking and German Speaking people. Triumphent X)
Borg639 4 months ago
marcial y esplendor del ejercito aleman..
ardilla861 4 months ago
All i can say is thank you Grandpa.
molanlabexm15 6 months ago
Ob Deutsche oder Russen: Alle starben schrecklichen Tod in einen unsinnig nach falschen Weltbildern geführten Krieg.
EggiHL 7 months ago 24
From many of the comments it would appear that.......oh never mind......give peace a chance.....
gtobayou 7 months ago 7
The Soviet Union won but I can't say Communism is a better form of Government than National Socialism. Stalin's form of Communism more closely resembled Nationalism than Communism which is why it is referred to as Stalinism.
MrBEB123 7 months ago
@MrBEB123 yea hitler and stalin gave dictatorship a bad name.
flossy26 1 week ago
бравые парни .однако пиздюлей огребли под Курском
bobihal1 9 months ago 37
@bobihal1 На курском выступе иваны потеряли 400 танков))) хорошенькая победа)))
TheAbrahamss 1 month ago
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vmurashev 1 month ago
@TheAbrahamss
Кстати, на западном фронте союзники так и не нашли эффективного противоядия против Тигров. Если бы не подавляющее превосходство союзников в воздухе, немцы давали бы прикурить им по-полной. ;)
Об этом много говорилось в Дискавери. Когда американцы и англичане впервые увидели ИС-2, то они никак не могли понять как такую пушку можно установить на танк, пусть и тяжелый. :)
vmurashev 1 month ago 2
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@TheAbrahamss
1) в то время у наших не было эффективных средств против новейших немецких танков и самоходных орудий. Т-34-76 не мог эффективно бороться с Тиграми и Пантерами. В начале войны, КВ и Т-34 с такой же легкостью также уничтожали немецкие танки, как Тигры и Пантеры - Т-34-76.
2) не все советские танки были подбиты с земли. Немцы устанавливали на свои штурмовики зенитные пушки и также могли легко подбивать танк
vmurashev 1 month ago
@tyskbulle Please note that every good historian always refers to some sources and he mentions where he found out it. Where are the sources your respectable authors refer to? Imagine you are historian, you need to find out, how many people were killed somewhere, 50 years ago or something. How u can do that? How u will estimate it? What data and information u will use to derive the numbers? Come on, please share with me the sercet of the information search of your ''respectable historians''.
Vort3xz 9 months ago
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Vort3xz 9 months ago
@tyskbulle Do you see the difference in two things, when entire country surrenders in 1 month, and when entire country fights to the end and wins? No? Then we have nothing to speak about, as I said before, victors don't have to justify themselves, and French now need protectors like you to at least try to find some excuses of being routed. 15 to 1 in Winter War? Actually 1.5 to one in 1939, 2 to 1 in 1940, please don't attache here any fairytales, ok?
Vort3xz 9 months ago
The Nazis got their asses kicked and they lost the war.
For causing the deaths of millions of people the Nazis got fucked,
That is why there is a lot of Russian genetic material in the German gene-pool.
brightstarone 9 months ago
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@tyskbulle Also please note, that if we take into account Wehrmacht with its new territories and their sattelites, we can see that they had equal manpower as the Soviet Union. And considering that up to December 1941, 78 millions of the Soviet citizens felt under the occupation, the Soviets had actually much less manpower than Axis. So please keep your fantasies about outnumbered Nazis to yourself.
Vort3xz 9 months ago
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Vort3xz 9 months ago
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Vort3xz 9 months ago
@tyskbulle Yes man. RUSSIAN archives are pretty good for working with the RUSSIAN history. ''Kruschev during the cold war woud condem Stalin.'' I was actually about to provide you the documents which were prepaired in 1953 under Khrushev's order to provide the number of purged people by Stalin they were counting all the dossies, Khrushev wanted to use it against Stalin's history. he was anti-Stalinist, but even he couldn't exceed the numbers, cos above some historians fantasies there are facts.
Vort3xz 9 months ago
@tyskbulle And ''respectable historians'' work with archives. Otherwise everything what they said is just a water under the bridge, vox, empty phrases, nothing. If they didn't work with archives they are not historians but ordinary storytellers. Which archives can show the number of purges in the USSR? Of course the SOVIET archives only. So they had to work with our documents, but they didn't, so they came up with some random numbers, because propaganda needs to besmirch the USSR.
Vort3xz 9 months ago
@Vort3xz Again, Ive said it before. The archives are far from incomplete and has basicly no figures at all important areas, that 800 000 were exectued are most likely correct. But they dont take into account the famine of the Ukraine in 30s or the massive deportations of ethnic minorites that cost over to 4 million lives. Historians dont take soviet archives and write books and publications "today" whit the asumption that these even close to realistic. Wy woud the west make propoganda in 2011?
tyskbulle 9 months ago
@tyskbulle As for the archives. It would be discover for you, but every prison has registration of its prisoners. And the Soviet Union had it and it was counted. 642 000 sentenced to the capital punishment. Just admit that fact. As for the starving in Ukraine and ethnic cleanings, there is a statistif of the demography in USSR, you will not find any ''over 4 millions lives'' there while the Soviet fertility rate was always the same.
Vort3xz 9 months ago
@Vort3xz So what we basicly are doing here, Is that you are argueing that russian archives are the one and only good source of information that we can work whit. In other countries, whit other dictators sutch as Pol Pot in kambodja there are no archives at all, but researchers try to figure out how many people died. Research make numbers of estimations . 90% of western/eastern historians agree that 15-20 million died during Stalins reign, even Kruschev during the cold war woud condem Stalin.
tyskbulle 9 months ago
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Vort3xz 9 months ago
@tyskbulle ''hit other dictators sutch as Pol Pot in kambodja there are no archives at all'' Yes, it is very wise to compare Kambodja and USSR, worth the rank ''respectable historian''. Let's also say now that the European Union data and documents about its current economical situation means nothing, because in Somalia you won't find any data at all. Or that the FBI number of the prisoners registrated in USA means nothing, cos in Afghanistan there is no registration at all.
Vort3xz 9 months ago
@tyskbulle About Stalin. You want the documents, real scanned documents with counted number of imprisoned and executed people by years? I can provide it to you, your historians didn't provide any evidences, while in Russian archives everything was documented. And you will never find there 17 millions of people. The purge killed 642 000 people. It is a number based on the counted dossiers. Yes eastern front was not just a russian bath, but russians were basically fighting alone vs 7 countries
Vort3xz 9 months ago
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Vort3xz 9 months ago
im amazed at the way people think russia was so great. they used english and american material and without this they would have lost .there gear there stratagy and having no concern for there soldiars life made them terrible commanaders. and the normal russian army was lost completly germany was fighting the leftover asain masses that russia had to use. russia was the sess pools of humanity in that time period ( look at whet they did to the poles and never said im sorry)
69heydrich 9 months ago
@69heydrich Silly. At first, the USSR and Germany had equal military casualties. Second, US land lease was only 4 % of the total Soviet manufactore. And majority of the materials came only up to the summer of 1943, when the Soviet Union already won Moscow and Stalingrad battles. If you think Russia would loose without your 4% after 1943 you are very naive. And please don't lecture us about humanity, type in google ''how many people died during the greatest depression'' and see the US humanity.
Vort3xz 9 months ago
im amazed at the way people think russia was so great. they used english and american material and without this they would have lost .there gear there stratagy and having no concern for there soldiars life made them terrible commanaders. and the normal russian army was lost completly germany was fighting the leftover asain masses that russia had to use. russia was the sess pools of humanity in that time period ( look at whet they did to the poles and never said im sorry) VICTOR JUSTICE
69heydrich 9 months ago
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PEDROCLASSIC 10 months ago
@PEDROCLASSIC panker korps! intresting
Atomicomet 9 months ago
@Atomicomet Panzer Korps he he
PEDROCLASSIC 9 months ago
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Vort3xz 10 months ago
@Vort3xz Where exactly he said or wrote it? The source? The book, when it was published? And btw why France needed the planes like Potez and fast-attacking tanks like SOMUA? And why all their forces were formed up to the border? Probably France wanted to attacke!!! And why UK had attacking type flee? Their linkors were attacking type? Ah yes I get it, they wanted to attack too!!!!! Everybody wanted to attack Hitler, but this guy has perfect timing lol
Vort3xz 10 months ago
''Killed his own soldiers often, purged the country in an act with 5 times as many deaths as the holocaust, etc'' Hahahahaahahahahahah, nice man! Sources? Of course you don't have any sources again. And I have the sources, the soviet arhives about the number of repressed people from 1921 to 1954
img-fotki yandex ru/get/6000/mazanov2005.19/0_4d543_d296ab54_XL
lindex.lenin ru/Est/repress.htm
So again, you are telling the myths.
Vort3xz 10 months ago
@redreaper2020 ''Stalin was never a "savior". Stalin & Hitler were almost identical'' Of course they were the same. It's Stalin who occupied the whole Europe including France, it is Stalin who bombed UK (Operation Sea Lion) and started a campagain against Brits in Africa. It's Stalin's ally - Japan who bombed US pearl harbour. It is Stalin who wrote the plan ''Operation Unthinkable'' and treacherously planned to attack his allies. Yes man you are right, I see the common sense in your words
Vort3xz 10 months ago
@Vort3xz Stalin invaded korea, stalin let the poles fight to the death against the nazis in 44 before taking over Poland, stalin planned on initially taking half of poland for himself (mol-rib pact). Stalin took over half of germany and tried to blockade berlin. Stalin invaded finland, He often promised independence to conquered states and then made them tight-knit allies of the USSR. Killed his own soldiers often, purged the country in an act with 5 times as many deaths as the holocaust, etc
redreaper2020 10 months ago
@redreaper2020 Stalin let Poles fight to death against nazis? Yea and why 600 000 soviet troops magically died freeing Poland? Cos Poles were fighting alone? '' Stalin invaded korea'' It's very strange but I've seen there only american troops. But probably it doesn't matter, Stalin probably also invaded Iraq, Vietnam, Afghanistan too yes :D ''Stalin invaded finland'' where is the info about occupation of Finald? There was a war for the small piece of land near Leningrad, but not occupation.
Vort3xz 10 months ago
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Vort3xz 10 months ago
@redreaper2020 Just for comparison, Stalin imprisoned 3.7 mil. people during 1923-1954 period. In 1999 the number of prisoners in United States of America was 2 million.
Vort3xz 10 months ago
@Vort3xz 1.) where the hell did you get the 3.7 mil figure from? Pulled it out of your ass? And in the US, we had more people. In 1940 the ussr had 196,716,000, the US had in 1999 about 300 million. Also, US prisoners are in far better conditions, and usually have FAR shorter sentences (1-2 years vs maybe 10 or 20) for the same crime.
Just FYI: Stalin is estimated as being responsible for the deaths of 20 to 30 million people. Also, he conquered eastern europe just as hitler did.
redreaper2020 10 months ago
@redreaper2020 I linked u the archives, 3 tables with detailed info about how many prisoners there were, what terms they had and how many of them were sentenced to death penalty. Do you know the russian history? How can u compare 30s and nowaday in terms of conditions? Russia had a civil war and revolution in 1917-1924. And in nowadays the quality of life in the whole world is MUCH better.As for 30s, should I remind ya about the US quality of life? Are you familiar with the greatest depression?
Vort3xz 10 months ago
@redreaper2020 Estimated by whom? 30 millions? Check the population of the soviet union by years. Russia lost 27 million in a war (20 million civilians killed by Hitler and 7 millions military losses). So if you add your fantasy 30 millions, how can USSR maintain normal fertility rate? Why in the population statistic we can see only 27m casualties of war population decreased during 1941-1945, but there is no losses of any 30 million?
en.wikipedia org/wiki/Demography_of_the_Soviet_Union
Vort3xz 10 months ago
@Vort3xz The russian losses during world war two have been highly debated by historians over the decades, but at the same time the Soviet Union and Germany had diffrent ways of counting losses. In terms of military dead, Germany is estimated around 5,5 million and the Soviet Union 8-11 million. Number of civilian deaths on the east front Is unknown, but roughly 15-25 million Is the most common estimation. Some count Stalins war crimes pre-war to pro-war and then you have to add 10-20 million.
tyskbulle 9 months ago
@tyskbulle Dude, I can give you the link in PM on the scans of the Russian Archives, there are elaborate tables of how many people were imprisoned and sentenced to the capital punshment. If you are not interested in these documents just listen. It was imprisoned 4 millions people 800 000 of them sentenced to the capital punishment , but for 168 000 of them the sentence was eventually changed. Thus, under Stalin, 642 000 people were executed. Not 10-20 millions like Western Historians claim.
Vort3xz 9 months ago
@tyskbulle Germany didn't have enough data of its casualties cos a lot of its archives were destroyed and the country was divided for almost 45 years so a lot of the remained docs are scattered. The fact is that Germany mobilized 17 millions soldiers against USSR and on the eve of the battle for Berlin, Germany already had to recruit 12-13 years old kids and over 60 years oldmen, cos they didn't have enough soldiers. So 5.5 millions it is quite underestimated number due to the lack of data.
Vort3xz 9 months ago
@tyskbulle Now let's turn to the Soviet casualties. (my answer about Stalin and German casualties see in the two posts below). The Soviet data base of losses includes 8.6 million millions dossies, this database may be checked on the website called ''obd-memorial''. But I took 7 million casualties as an actual number of the soldiers that the Soviet Union lost on the battlefields. While approx. 2 - 3 millions of the Soviet Soldiers died in the German camps as prisoners of war.
Vort3xz 9 months ago
@Vort3xz German casualties did not include wounded men, If we take the battle of Kursk only 1 of 5 were killed, these number are considerable better then thier russian counter parts. The germans had over 500 000 casualties in the massive failed offensive at Kursk but only roughly 150 000 were dead or missing. Historians agree that Soviet records are incomplete and that they do not represent a realistic view of deaths in specific areas, thats wy it is so mutch controversy around the subject.
tyskbulle 9 months ago
@tyskbulle Of course there are no 100% accurate statistic. But German casualties are not full and I've already explained, why the German archives have lack of data, the Soviet archives are more accurate on that issue because all documents remained safe. When we compare the Soviet/Axis casualties you should also take into account more than 1 million died Finnish, Hungarian, Romanian, Italian, Croatian, Bulgrarian soldiers which were also fought on the Eastern front against the Soviet Union.
Vort3xz 9 months ago
@Vort3xz Indeed, Its important to notice that Germany were not the only Axis power, if we include the Axis many people will come to realise that the eastern front were not just a russian blood bath. No archives are ever truely accurate, but I coud not agree that more then 6 million germans fell in combat, its also questionable if the german volkssturm "milita" is considerd military deaths, sense they were so fastly mobilized that no records coud be accurate during battles sutch as Berlin.
tyskbulle 9 months ago
@tyskbulle And also I want to answer this quote ''its also questionable if the german volkssturm "milita" is considerd military deaths''. You know, my grandfather had never been a military before the WW II and he had never even carry any gun in his hads before. He was a teacher of mathematics, but he was drafted in 1942. So in Soviet military losses there are also a lot of non-military people who were not militaries initially but were like u said ''fastly mobilized''.
Vort3xz 9 months ago
@Vort3xz Im glad some russians at least try to remove the hole image that the Soviet Union were a incompetent fighting force during WW2. Indeed it didnt start well but the Soviet Union grew to be the biggest most awsome arsenal of modern warfare, russian military achivements are often overshadowed by the early war failures, tactics and carelessly use of human life by generals and dictators sutch as Stalin.
tyskbulle 9 months ago
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Vort3xz 9 months ago
@tyskbulle Carelessly? Man can you understand that it was a WAR?Or you think it was possible to win just with one battalion? While the USA and the UK could simply watch staying overseas the USSR didn't have that choice, it was attacked and had to defend itself and you claim about careless usage of human lifes? And who used it carefully? Ah I remember, France. And Paris gave up just in one day. Obviosly unlike Soviet generals and Stalin, French generals were genious in the military science, yes.
Vort3xz 9 months ago
@Vort3xz I do consider sending mass charges whit poorly or no trained soldiers against almost impossible odds is to have no care for human life, It wasnt exactly the west fronts. And France have been tarnished enough, considering that they were the best fighting force after the germans in WW1 they fell to the blitzkrieg mutch like the Soviet Union in 1941 and half of Europe. They lasted for 30 days.The UK did far from nothing, how about delaying german tank production by 50% a hole summer?
tyskbulle 9 months ago
@tyskbulle USSR won while France was taken in 30 days. For comparison it took several months for Germans to take just one Odessa having 340 000 troops against 34 000 Soviet troops. The Soviet Union made a stubborn resistance in the beginning and delayed its occupation before regrouping the troops. And subsequently the Soviet Union won, won against the united Europe, while France supported by UK bletcherously lost. Victors don't have to justify themselves. And you have nothing against this fact.
Vort3xz 9 months ago
@Vort3xz As for france vs soviet defences, its safe to say that russia coud afford losses during the early days of the war due to massive space and manpower. This was not something that france had, so stop bashing that country. As for Soviet archives and just "capital punishment" lets just agree to disagree then, clearly you have not ready anything but small specific numbers from soviet archives. Please keep living inside your bubble so you wont have to deal whit the real world.
tyskbulle 9 months ago
@tyskbulle I have ready at least five things. Arhives, military soviet reports, demographic statistic of the USSR, post-Stalin's count of the died people under Stalin's regime, many Russian historians who were working with all these stuff I just mentioned for years, such historains like Igor Pykhalov, Alexey Isaev, Vladislav Shved and so on, and I personally know many vets and people who used to live in Stalin's period the real whitnessers of these times.
Vort3xz 9 months ago
@tyskbulle When I was redg western historians I didn't actually found any sources they refer to. Explain me Mr. Smart Historian, how can you estimate the number of dead people without counts or without any report statistics, docs from the time when they died? Or in your country, probably when you have elections you do not cast the votes? Your politicians just say ''we have estimated that N number of people vote for the X candidate'', right? So sorry man, but there is only you live in the bubble.
Vort3xz 9 months ago
@tyskbulle As for France, again you provide non-scientific excuses. In the French campagain there were involved 1 500 000 of the German troops. While France had 3 000 000 plus British troops, plus some parts of the Belgium and Dutch armies too. in 1940 Germans didn't have so much manpower as in the Eastern campagain, German sattelites were not involved in the French campagain, except for Italy which joined in the last stage when French were already defeated.
Vort3xz 9 months ago
@Vort3xz As for my information, I read books. Books from respectable authors and researcher, Im no historian, even said I was. But excuse me if I take thier word far beyond you or your archives. This discussion Is over sense there Is no point in rabbling whit people living in thier own world.
tyskbulle 9 months ago
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Vort3xz 9 months ago
@tyskbulle So explain me how come that more than 3 500 000 troops surrendered to 2 500 000 Germans just in 30 days while in 1941 it took 3 months to take Odessa witth 34 000 Soviet soldiers, it took 2 months to take Smolensk where there were 1200 000 Gers against 560 000 Sovs? What about Brest Fortress? Why they couldnt take Kiev and other towns so fast being overnumbered? The thing is that in the Soviet case Blizkrig failed. The Soviet troops protected each square meter very persistantly.
Vort3xz 9 months ago
@tyskbulle So please stop protect the country which was entirely and tarnishly routed. And in fact it was not only France. French/British troops were routed, routed without any chance, routed almost without worth resistancem routed very disgracefully and dishonourably. Both armies were fooled by the German tactic, and didn't even make a stand, Brits barely managed to escape through La Manche. And the SU won, and the SU was the first country which ruined the myth about unbeatable German army.
Vort3xz 9 months ago
@Vort3xz So what if brittish and frence troops were routed? Dishonorably? Get a grip, like this didnt happen on the eastern front were hundreds of thousends of russian troops were surrounded in pockets and surrenderd? Or was thier surrender less dishonorable? No wait they were just traitors. Speaking of Odessa, sutch situations allways exists in war, another example is the winter war were the finns were outnumbers by 15 to 1. In the right situation numbers dont have the same significantcy.
tyskbulle 9 months ago
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Vort3xz 9 months ago
@Vort3xz Often western archives, includeing german ones have been far more accurate then thier eastern counterparts and the german death toll is generaly agreed as correct by most historians, have not seen any debates on the matter. During my studies however Ive notice that its extremely common to count german soldiers and civilian deaths during the war into one number, thats estimated around "roughly 8-10 million" And its been viewed as german miltiary deaths far to commonly.
tyskbulle 9 months ago
@Vort3xz As for Stalin, the subject have been highly debated, ignoreing cold war facts and lissening to publications of recent studies during the last two decades most historians agree that Stalin and his regim of "terror" costed at the least 17 million lives during his regin. These numbers do not include military deaths but exectuions or forced deportation and purges during war time. The most respectable historians of WW2 do agree whit this number, and roughly "20" million is just a estimate.
tyskbulle 9 months ago
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Vort3xz 9 months ago
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Vort3xz 9 months ago
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Vort3xz 10 months ago
@redreaper2020 ''Also, he conquered eastern europe just as hitler did.'' As just HItler? Check how many people died on the occupied by Hitler territories, especially Poland, Yugoslavia and USSR. Stalin has liberated the East Europe, and after the war, unlike Germans, the Sovit troops have withdrawn these territories. And the Soviet Union didn't annex these territories. Stop listen to stupid propaganda and watch for the facts please.
Vort3xz 10 months ago
@Vort3xz propaganda? Wtf? Propaganda by allied powers would have defended the sovs, not made them look worse! Your argument is breaking down.
On the "oh withdrew after the war" I encourage you to open your eyes and look at all the soviet military interventions and civil uprisings and puppet governments. That's like saying the nazis withdrew from France.
redreaper2020 10 months ago
@redreaper2020 My argument is pretty accurate russian documents and statistic of the soviet demography. You don't have any arguments except for the liers like Suvorov (aka Rezun) who was critisized even by many Western historians. Because Rezun has never revealed his sources. Simply because they don't exist. OK name me the countries where the Soviet Troops remained after the war. And I will remind you Vietnam, Korea, Iraq, Afghanistan, bombings of Libya and Yugoslavia, nuclear bombing of Japan.
Vort3xz 10 months ago
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@redreaper2020
s.imhonet ru/user_files/5f/99/5f997248cd42021458b8f047303f4a74/images/_1930-1936.jpg
s.imhonet ru/user_files/5f/99/5f997248cd42021458b8f047303f4a74/images/_1930-1936.jpg
''Note below: the list includes probation and those who were expeled from a country (1 million)''
s.imhonet ru/user_files/5f/99/5f997248cd42021458b8f047303f4a74/images/1939-1953_.JPG
Total: 2.900.000 sentenced to 1 - 25 years, sentenced to capital punishment 800.000
Sources: Russian archives
Vort3xz 10 months ago
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Vort3xz 10 months ago
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Vort3xz 10 months ago
GERMAN ASSES TOOK THEIR PORTION
TheVoroshilov 11 months ago
I love the way the German newsreel portrays the soldiers as if they were having fun on a camping trip.
logancody05 1 year ago
Shut up all and watch the video, you weren´t there anyway!
BigAndTall666 1 year ago
AnyTHING that subscribes to the VERMINSCUM MUD of "nazism" *IS* by *DEFINITION* = SUBHUMAN VERMINSCUM THAT NEEDS TO BE SIMPLY EXTERMINATED AS THE VERMINSCUM THAT THEY ARE.
lukebccb 1 year ago
TO ALL THE SUBHUMAN NAZI VERMINSCUM: the nazigermanverminscum *INVADED* the Soviet Union/Russia!
If it'd been THE OTHER WAY AROUND then I'd give A LITTLE sympathy to the subhuman untermenschen vermin scum nazi GERMANS but THE UNTERMENSCHEN SUBhuman nazi GERMANS were the ones that *INVADED* the Soviet Union/Russia.
Go fucking die SUBHUMAN VERMINSCUM *UNTERMENSCHEN* GERMAN *APOLOGISTS* VERMINSCUM!
THE FUCKING *GOOD* SIDE WON OVER THE FUCKING *UNTERMENSCHEN* *EVIL* SIDE!!!!!!!!!!!
lukebccb 1 year ago
@lukebccb retard
LordNick42 11 months ago
@lukebccb Stalin planned on invading europe in the mid forties, at the end of the 3rd 5-year-plan. Sovs planned on betraying the Germans. The only difference was that Germany got the jump on them. That's not propaganda, but well-documented in RUSSIAN sources--Viktor Suvorov, a defecting Soviet tank general, even wrote a book about it.
Nazis were bad, but many of their ideas were not as radical at the time as they are now. Public opinion is different about things now.
redreaper2020 11 months ago
@redreaper2020: sorry suvorov's word's are worth shit as his "arguments" are purely conjecture. Suvorov's "arguments" based on NO facts makes suvorov's "argument" as valid as those who counter him with their own conjectures.
The subhuman vermin nazi SCUM *INVADED* the Soviets/Russians *FIRST* so the subhuman vermin nazi SCUM carry the weight of being *INVADERS* historically.
Nazis - SUBHUMAN VERMIN SCUM.
The only good nazi subhuman vermin scum is one that has been exterminated.
lukebccb 11 months ago
@lukebccb Actually if you understand military strategy, you'd know that it isn't conjecture, it's backed by facts. Also it fits soviet doctrine, and was very, very well-documented.
And isn't it really, really ironic, that you call nazis "Subhuman vermin scum", the same words they used? So, you're using, quite LITERALLY, the exact same words that they used in their most radical speeches, to describe them--making you NO BETTER than them!!
redreaper2020 11 months ago
@lukebccb
The commie sub-human scum invaded Poland. You got exactly what you deserved. The only shame is that the West did not nuke you out of Central Europe in 1945 that you imprisoned for 50 years.
Reichsfuhrer1979 10 months ago
@redreaper2020 There are no such documents exist abount plannings of invading Europe or attacking Germany lol, provide the link on the scanned copies otherwise. I know russian language and I can tell ya that all soviet documents published in books are in free access in internet in form of scanned copies.I checked several times the internet, there are no scanned copies of the ''documents'' which Suvorov provided, he's writing his books according to how his British masters ask him.
Vort3xz 10 months ago
@Vort3xz They have better defectors to expose that than just a tank general.
have you ever reviewed their tactical layouts in the early forties? The BT tank is useless in a defensive role its armor is too light, yet they had TONS of them. Airborne divisions are virtually useless in a defensive role, yet the Red Army in the late 30s was churning them out, even experimenting with dropping tanks.
redreaper2020 10 months ago
@Vort3xz All the soviet formations were old and formed up on the border...yet new, far better ones were magically appearing from deep within the soviet union. While yes, many of them were quickly formed, the trained commanders and the designs require time to acquire--the best designs of the war were from before it. These were invasion armies already being created. While "common history" would invalidate them, knowledge of tactics and stalinist methods make it all too clear.
redreaper2020 10 months ago
@redreaper2020 Hahaha, who told ya that? No really who told you that? It's a Myth about all soviet formations destroyed on the border, they were wide spreaded in West Russia, Belarus and Ukraine these territories are pretty vast. How better ones appeared? Because the Soviet Union was also waiting hit from Japan, and the first victory over Nazis was when it became clear that Japan is not interested in a war with Russians, so they transfered the troops from far Eastern to the Moscow battle.
Vort3xz 10 months ago
@redreaper2020 And obviously if a country is fighting and unlike some Frenchy freaks does not surrender in 1 month, this obviously means they were creating ''invading army'' lol. Y'see, Germans had ''Plan Barbarossa'', can you provide any plan about attacking Germany from the Soviet Union? No you can't cos it's a MYTH.
Vort3xz 10 months ago
@Vort3xz Got rage?
You obviously have no idea about tactical employment, about the role of airborne and tank armies, or of mid 30s soviet doctrine. Besides which virtually every country over the past 100 years has had at least a plan on how to invade any other country, even staunch allies.
You're grossly generalizing facts in order to avoid an underlying truth. China resisted Japan for years, yet they weren't planning to invade.
Your argument is invalid. GTFO.
redreaper2020 10 months ago
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Vort3xz 10 months ago
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Vort3xz 10 months ago
@redreaper2020 Gimme the link on the Soviet doctrine of mid 30s ok? And well, at least I have arguments, and you don't have them. You didn't provide any documents yet u said that ''but well-documented in RUSSIAN sources'' it's your quote. In Russian sources there is no mention of any plannings to attack Germany. And your tone only shows your backwoods mentality, that's pretty common for persons who loose in any discussions and can't prove anything with the facts.
Vort3xz 10 months ago
@Vort3xz Read "Inside the Soviet Army", look over any declassified documents of the 30s, or just learn basic doctrine. You want a link? Look it up yourself
wintersonnenwende com/scriptorium/english/archives/articles/stalwarplans html
latvianhistory.wordpress com/2011/04/18/stalins-attack-plans-on-germany-1939-1941
Here's a starter. Now stop bothering me. Stalin was never a "savior". Stalin & Hitler were almost identical--hitler just got there faster.
redreaper2020 10 months ago
@redreaper2020 Very funny man. This article is not the soviet doctrine. And this article refers to Suvorov. No documents or something. No any letters signed. While the German plan about the plannings of attack was developed in 1940 and I provided ya the link on this document. So stop saying shit please.
Do ya actually know that when the country wants to attack smdy there is a plan always exists? Where are the real soviet documents in russian? You, haven't provided them, nor Suvorov has.
Vort3xz 10 months ago
@redreaper2020 Plus, have u actually ever red the book Mein Kampf written by Hitler? For your information this book was published long before Hitler took a power in Germany. In this book Hilter openly revealed that he despised bolshevism and ideally sought to free the east from its grip by conquering the Soviet Union. You have no docs, while I have Hitler's personally written book and official German document about invading the Soviet Union. So keep your and Suvorov's fantasies to yourself.
Vort3xz 10 months ago
@Vort3xz Have you ever read anything written by stalin? he mentioned the same thing about germany! only difference was he didn't publish it.
redreaper2020 10 months ago
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Vort3xz 10 months ago
Der Nachschub war sehr wichtig und zugleich schwierig.
notaire2 1 year ago
The truth of the matter is if the Africa Corps would have been given the upmost of importance when it came to resupply and Operation Barbarossa postponed you might have seen a different end to the war.
Clink1371James 1 year ago
@Clink1371James agreed,..the world is lucky ole aldoph was a idiot.
wilatemodel 1 year ago
As to the emending defeat, well it wasn't the Militaries fault.. Hitler was considered the Allies best General, over reaching his boundaries and fighting a 2 front war, the loss of North Africa do to not controlling the Med. and resupplying Rommel Army, believing that the Italians Generals actually had any ability to do anything right.
Clink1371James 1 year ago
The German military was possibly the finest fighting force ever created the innovations, technology, tactics the re-writing of how wars are fought, You can point fingers and call them less than human for the killing of millions but the truth is that only a small portion of people were involved in this genocide.. We tend to forget Stalin, Mao Zedong, Khmer Rouge, Americas policies involving the Native American just to name a few...
Clink1371James 1 year ago
It is a shame that the germans let themselves being misled and being used by such a regime.. If they used the roman approach then we probarbly all speak german... But they thought they were better then everyone else,.. Such a shame of sloughtering and sacrificing such prommessing generation..
options71 1 year ago 2
Why do people always think that they are the only ones who have te full right on the truth??
Mankind will destroy itself and is just a fase ... War is horror.. Nothing heroic about war.. Or something to idealise.. You probarbly have to experience war before knowing what really matters in life.. Maybe later wisdom comes with the years
options71 1 year ago 2
Burn all in hell, fucking german nazis!!!
333Kosta 1 year ago
@333Kosta So you are pretty much calling all Germans Nazis now?
MultiAREE 1 year ago
@333Kosta So you are telling all Germans to burn in Hell?
MultiAREE 1 year ago
Schade das wir den Krieg verloren haben an dem USA,England,Frankreich Russland und sogar Polen Mitchuld und Mitverantwortung tragen.
knatterchen 1 year ago
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The battlefield in Kursk was filled with many hundreds of burnt tanks and crashed aircraft, and so many dead soldiers. The difference was that while the
In the summer of 1943, in the battle of Kursk, the much weaker German army broke its fist and lost its best remaining units in its attempt to regain the initiative in one last major attack, for which the Russians were fully prepared.
JIMY45GR 1 year ago
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Thanks to their "Lucy" spy network, which operated high ranking sources in Germany via Switzerland, the Russians didn't just expect the German attack, they knew all about it. They received the full details of the German plan, and the Russian military intelligence was able to verify most details in the front to ensure that the information was real, not disinformation.
The Russians prepared eight defense lines one behind the other, and also positioned their entire strategic mobile reserve
JIMY45GR 1 year ago
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Why people don't learn history? Who comes with weapon to Russia, dies anyway - it is historically proven dogma. How many b1tches Russia must slap (Napoleon, Hitler, Karl XII etc.) to make it clear: DON'T MESS WITH RUSSIANS!!! DON"T WAKE A SLEEPING BEAR. All wars vs Russia lead to catastrophe of war initiator. Only clinical idiot can decide to start war with the bravest nation in the world which live in the largest country on planet 1/9 of all land belongs to Russia.
Go1andec 1 year ago
Can anyone please suggest where I might be able to find a translation of this?
Hellfire257 1 year ago
when ever you see war propaganda it really shows how similar everyone is. really it seems the same glory for your country and the adventure of a lifetime... ha we all tell the same lies.
bolengerin 1 year ago
Fascism versus Communism.
sanclementekid 1 year ago
Down with Nazi frogheads!
BTW, propaganda doesn't show how german soldiers suffered and were killed too. anyone here thinks german mothers and fathers were happy gearing their sons were being killed because Hitler brainwashed them?
It's crazy, how humans can be so zombified and told to burn down half a planet.....
digimaks 1 year ago
german scum
baddface6 1 year ago
Greetings to Peter Hansen, the only one Chilean and one of the few South Americans who belonged to the Waffen SS with the highest military ranks .. and was one of the few generals who were not accused of war crimes ...
He could not return to Chile after the war ...
You can not be honored, the censorship of the winners ..
but we will always remember
TheNewperson01 1 year ago
great video! if only Germany had won the world we wouldn't be living under the corrupt zionists!
bohemianh 1 year ago
@bohemianh Learn to spell corruption correct, you fool! GO TO SCHOOL and LEaRN what Nazis did to neighbor countries.
BTW, fool like you would of been burned in concentration camp. Does that make you feel better about nazis now? Get a brain!
digimaks 1 year ago
great video! if only Germany had won the world we wouldn't be living under the corrupt zionists!
bohemianh 1 year ago
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@bohemianh , or sand nigger terrorists...guaranteed, theres no way those carpet pilots would be running around this planet with the SS soldiers walking this earth today, you can bet the farm on that. Cheers
Lucicsux 1 year ago
So there are so many smart asses here and none of You know haw did the German army lost this battle. Germans had all the advantages all, the terrain, soldiers , amo, supply, alt- batteries and tanks, plus at the start they were winners, and at the middle the winners too, but what did the Russians did at the end that change all of it.?.The out come of this action was clas- info and shared with allied later. It was a massive air ride, one after another, and another.Soviet Air superiority won.
alukea123 1 year ago
rYSSÄNPASKA TEKI TANKKEJA JA TEKI TANKKEJA... KUKA NOILLE SAATANAN PASKOILLE MITÄÄN MAHTAA... SAATANAN PASKAKANSA...
kimmoj9 1 year ago
rYSSÄNPASKA TEKI TANKKEJA JA TEKI TANKKEJA... KUKA NOILLE SAATANAN PASKOILLE MITÄÄN MAHTAA... SAATANAN RYSSÄ...
kimmoj9 1 year ago
rYSSÄNPASKA TEKI TANKKEJA JA TEKI TANKKEJA... KUKA NOILLE SAATANAN PASKOILLE MITÄÄN MAHTAA...
kimmoj9 1 year ago
love battle songs.
its motivating!
nubcake007 2 years ago
Death to nazi.
Glory to the great USSR !
maximatort 2 years ago
USSR is dead...
Deutschland rose again from ashes to be Europe's leading economy and world's export leader
Russia has a much smaller economy
and therefore less power in a non-war economy
konigtigertank 2 years ago
Nazis were a bunch of criminals but so were Stalin & Co. Russians should finally confess that Stalin was as brutal mass murderer as Hitler was.
kampela00 2 years ago
@kampela00
you're oversimplification and labeling doesn't have currency with those who know better; the "nazis" as you call them were legion. Germany at the outset of WW2 had 80 million citizens; many (most) were "nazis" and believed in Der Fuhrer, only a small fraction of one percent had anything to do with so-called war crimes!
This is fact; if you want show your ignorance further, pls. reply...
konigtigertank 2 years ago 10
You missed my point and I didn't mean that all Germans were criminals, not at all. I'm just annoyed how hypocritical most Russians are and how they forget or are ignorant how brutal their own regime was. Eastern Europe women could also tell a lot how the glorious red army treated(=raped) masses of women both young and old in the conquered areas.
kampela00 2 years ago
I agree.
The Germans raped women too(occassionally), however,
because of their ideology and "official" policy it never happened on the scale that the Soviets perpurtrated(sp?),,, there are
beautiful(of course) even Nordic looking women in the former USSR, probably from the Viking days.
Both sides "mistreated" each other and it became a vicious cycle. Believe it or not,
Alfred Rosenberg favored a less harsh policy in his zones of authority, however,
a man named Koch, didn't... continued...
konigtigertank 2 years ago
perhaps because of his(Rosenberg's)
time in Russia before studing and as he spoke excellent Russian(probably better than his German) he had some sympathy.
NOT to say he liked the "Bolshiviks" or partisians, because he didn't, however Koch convinced Hitler to adopt a less friendly attitude(in general).
Hitler being a master of psychology should have known better.
In the beginning, relations in the occupied zones were not bad; but after the Germans started to encounter mutilated ... cont...
konigtigertank 2 years ago
comrades on the battlefield ( forward recon units) could get cut off and ambushed, by Russian/Ukrainian units or sometimes heavily armed partisians.
It scared but also infuriated the Germans,
so it went downhill from there...
konigtigertank 2 years ago
I am not "justifying" either sides ugly behavior, but in war "shit happens"; it is more about understanding why things happened the way they did; because that is what being a historian is about in part.
"Justifying" often depends on what side you choose to take.
konigtigertank 2 years ago
@kampela00 you sound like you was there or even was raped yourself by terrible soviet troops.On german soil - yes soviets did let it go,but guess what - germans were killing russian women ,children and old for 4 years.What goes around - comes around.And stop bullshitting about rapes in eastern Europe.if they happened - soviet soldiers were executed for that after a brief field court.That's a fact.Also a fact that for one killed german soldier they would kill 100 civilian hostages(kids,women..)
vuikenshtein 1 year ago
@vuikenshtein Guys no need to confuse @kampela00 with facts. There is a comfort in living in a cocoon of fantasy vs real world.
elbabun 1 year ago
@vuikenshtein I'd recommend you for example Antony Beevor's "Berlin: The Downfall 1945". Lot's of interesting war history and pretty objective in my opinion too. You might discover what's fact and what's not. I'm not trying to defend Germany's horrible war crimes. It's just that I think Russians were'nt much better either in many ways.
kampela00 1 year ago
@kampela00 I will read this book.It's never too late to learn new things.Here is one thing though - Russians WERE better then Germans.You know why? Couse we didn't attack them first.We didn't sent people to deathcamps only becouse of their nationality.We didn't execute 100 German civilians for each one of our soldiers killed in Germany.And finally - We were not the ones to use the Nuclear Bomb on civilians.
vuikenshtein 1 year ago
@vuikenshtein Russian attacked into Finland '39 and before that occupied Baltic countries and part of Poland. During 30's and 40's Stalin's regime made huge population transfers, eliminated masses of ppl based on nationality and race and send ppl to Siberia. It's been estimated that Stalin killed far more his own ppl than Nazi's managed to do (20 million according to The Black Book of Communism). Surprising eh? Who's better and who's not, it's not so black and white right?
kampela00 1 year ago
@kampela00 You info is simply wrong.Black Book of communism?! LoL:-) I refer to historical facts.Germans killed over 25 million Soviets.Stalin killed 10 million.Which is still a lot.My wive's parents met in Siberia.Her dad was from Ukraine and mom from Belarus.But you know what,we know all those things about Stalin.And i'm not his biggest fan.All of you ,westerners, SHOULD BE his fans.