Peter Schiff always gets attacked by those who have a proven track record of BEING WRONG. Important lesson to those that follow confidence, instead of intelligence.
Can someone explain to me why they keep bringing Peter Schiff in, when his message is not the one the want to get across to the public?
I'd think they either should have a milder pessimist, or bring in a total clown that can be more easily ridiculed. So why do they keep inviting Peter?
thats a really good point and i cant think of an answer other than a lot of people in cnbc do not have an agenda, and have enough authority to get him on
Keynes is full of garbage! By all means study him and Marx, but understand that these are basically fascist economics.
Real economics is the Austrian School. This crisis was casued by loose US fiscal and monetary policy leading to serious economic imbalances and the bursting of housing. Someone explain to me how this can be caused by the market when it is the STATE that inflates bubbles through fiat money and inflation-fueled growth? Weath confiscation in periods of deflation and inflation!
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"Austrian" economists like Schiff use this apocalyptic rhetoric to try to add authority to their fringe beliefs because they know their ideas are really weak and dubious. They're just the flip side of the people who make careers out of forecasting doom from overpopulation, global warming, famines, plagues and resource depletion. Name me one "Austrian" economist who thinks that we'll probably just muddle through this crisis with a decent standard of living intact.
I can understand how you feel. Global warming forecasters use scare tactics to drum up a storm, and Austrian economists are sounding alot like them with their predictions of doom. But theres a difference between them: Peter Schiff's predictions are based on fact. Because of the Fed's manipulation of the money supply, hyperinflation is a real risk. I recommend Murray Rothbard's "The Case Against the Fed," which gives a basis for the argument that Peter doesn't have time to explain on these shows.
The Austrian School of Economics is the Common Sense School of Economics. If we have a recession caused by too much inflation, too much borrowing to consume from other countries, gov't interference in the economy, then how is more of the same going to help? Our national debt is now 78% of GDP & our dollar has lost 30% of its value over the last 20 yrs. How much more money do you think that we can print & borrow before our dollar collapses? When are we going to face reality?
I think that Keynesians are the ones forecasting doom to convince everyone to bail out failed industries. They continue to say that not bailing out failed industries will create economic collapse. Austrians only believe that prices and wages will adjust and output will do likewise.... In time.
"I believe the dollar will remain the denomination of choice"
Are you shitting me? How is that a possibility? Even a remote possibility?
To say that US management and RnD is what's gonna keep it that way is laughable, first off US RnD is done mostly by foreigners that came to the USA, following the money. SEcondly if american management and rnd is so good then why are US companies dying left and right? GM sure could benefit from some proper management and rnd so they don't build crap.
All good Pete, your a wack job like the rest of us realist people. In the end we will have the last laugh. These tards on CNBC will say w/e their boss tells them to say.
yeah peter schiff is right about all that occurred and how we're fucked. But has he told you the rest of the world is controlled by the same people. The same people want the whole world and not just Us. Everything is controlled by these evil fools. you think that just by getting out of america you are getting away from the end game plans?Foolish idea. Noose is tightening all around globe. Dragnet will nab all useless eaters no gold will help you when they will just take it away from you.Fools
more fodder for future "Peter Schiff Was Right" editions. Of course it doesn't matter because these fucktards will still be on cheerleading and getting air time no matter how many times they are wrong.
Doesn't it seem like both of the CNBC "reporters" were told to subtly attack Schiff? The whole thing seems forced as though they're carrying out an agenda they don't even understand. The woman starts laughing at Schiff as she's discussing decoupling but its not even clear that she understands what decoupling means. And Pisani's effort seems almost half-hearted as if he's smart enough to realize that he's doing little more than auditioning for the next 'Peter Schiff Was Right" video.
We won't have internet for a while after 2010 I'm fearing. Maybe someone will carve "Schiff was right!" into the ruins of a building but I'm kinda confident I won't be seeing youtube videos of it. :P
If those idiots think Peter is wrong they shoudl go and invest all their wealth in US T Bills. We can stick to gold and then laugh at them when the doller is dead.
The decline in the doller will get to a point then it will fall off a cliff as bond holders try to dump their reserves. we'll see what happens when china decides it doesn't want to hald the 2 trillion dollers it has in reserve and more.
the fact is that these two cnbc anchors blatantly ridicule, interrupt peter schiff after all those "peter schiff was right" videos, means that they bitterly know our economy is in a dire downward spiral. if you know how to follow bond market, currency market, and stock markets, then you will know that capital are fleeing the us in all those markets. Be prepared for a violent Greater Depression ladies and gentlemen.
What is it with these commentators (and I'm also referring to the ones that have chided Schiff over the last 5 years)? It's as if they live in a fantasy bubble and consistently want sunshine blown up their butts. They just cannot face reality even when it has already bashed them over their thick, brick-filled noggins.
Well, just save this piece and add it to the next "Schiff was right pt. 5" collection. God bless Austrian economics for allowing us to see reality.
.....listen to Peter....the news hates the real debate....thats why you still hear Peter Shiff trying to tell people more as they cut the transmission, because most people are too lazy to go on youtube and listen to everything else he has to say!
"I trust the dollar because I trust American innovation and technical expertise, so I believe the dollar will continue to be the reserve currency of the world."
Yeah . . . the fundamentals, basic economics and common sense notwithstanding, I guess. What a blockhead.
The dollar is finally showing the debilitation that was heralded by every serious, free market economist and Peter. The deleveraging of last year finally winding down, what's coming is hyperinflation.
Asia in a bubble!! hahahhahahahhaha!!! This Ron guy is a nut. I am just amazed how Peter has the patience to deal with these especially the bitch that always interupts him when he is trying to get his point across.
Agreed, she knew exactly where he was going with his comments and purposely interrupted in order to change the flow. I don't think she interrupted Ron once. At the end she says "I think we have to give last word to Ron." Fortunately, Peter got the last word.
the fact is that these two cnbc anchors blatantly ridicule, interrupt peter schiff after all those "peter schiff was right" videos, means that they bitterly know our economy is in a dire downward spiral. if you know how to follow bond market, currency market, and stock markets, then you will know that capital are fleeing the us in all those markets. Be prepared for a violent Greater Depression ladies and gentlemen.
Ron is basically advocating that US companies do more offshoring. The same MBA idiots that destroyed their own companies in search of next quarters bonus by offshoring to cheap labor. He calls this "skilled management"???
Offshored products are mostly garbage, things that used to lats for 15 years now fall apart after 2. It's false economy. American MBA's couldn't "manage" a circle jerk even though thats what they mostly do all day. Stay away from companies that offshore.
Why are people still arguing with Peter? Are they being paid extra to do it? Are they masochists looking forward to being humiliated in the future? Who knows.
Yeah and that idiot Ron wants to invest in more companies offshoring to China. That's NOT management expertise, it is laziness and greed. I pull all my money from companies that offshore.
Four people on an island. Three work, one consumes. The consumer pays the workers in IOUs. The workers pile up IOUs while the consumer gets fat and sits on his rear. The workers may currently "depend" on the consumer for work, but they are really just supporting a sloth while piling up a bunch of irredeemable IOUs. The workers would be better off without the consumer if they just worked to feed themselves. This is China and America in a nutshell. China is NOT dependent upon the US.
Isn't it hilarious how these CNBC clowns always try to ridicule Peter. History has shown that that CNBC is completely clueless when it comes to what it happening in the economy. I love watching these douchebags having to admit they were wrong, when Peter's predictions come true.
To put things in perspective - if I lent you all sorts of money to spend a fraction of that money on my business and paid back the loan with counterfeit money, then how does that demonstrate my dependence towards you??
The only thing China wants from Americans at this point is their money back. But the money is all gone. Which means in their eyes, we are a nation of dead beats.
why were they trying to discredit him like that? His 'mandate'? WTF? Its almost like saying ur a cheat and are fooling the people for personal gain. That too from CNBC reporters. Quite ironical.
India & china is in bubble because they had event driven ralleys in past few days?........
Am I missing somthing here? I thought bubble is something when market rise for no reason? There is definately a reason behind rise in Indian & Chinese market (and it is the same events what shah is talking about).
I like that all they can STILL do is giggle at him. They think he's a BEAR... but he's not. He knows we can BULL elsewhere, and we are if we pay attention.
All they did was giggle at him for the last 5 years. Here we go. Time to make sure we don't listen to the gigglers anymore, and listen to the people with sound fundamental knowledge.
I wish they would put Peter on TV next to someone with more similar views so that it doesn't always digress into Peter telling the other parties that they're flat out wrong. He makes his argument well enough, but for whatever reason, co-guests never seem to be able to disarm him.
CNBC anchor to other guy: "We're going to put you on TV, but in the same bit with Peter Schiff."
Other guy: "With who? It doesn't matter anyway, as long as it's TV time..."
The US dollar is crashing and if you don't prepare now you will soon be broke when hyperinflation arrives. Read the articles and signup for the free newsletter at: Inflation . us
Gosh, Mr. Schiff must be getting a tumor with all of these maladroits who keep saying how he is wrong. As Panpiper quoted the one and only Peter Schiff, "Why don't you go back and look at the things I said two years ago and see how that tune is playing out."
I agree - but i have to say this is the first time i've seen Peter use the "i told you so argument"... whilst we don't want him to bring out the big guns everytime - i think we all agree that he was fully justified in giving it to these morons both barrels!
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"Why don't you go back and look at the things I said two years ago and see how that tune is playing out." LOLLLLOLLLLLOLLLLLOLLLLLOLLLLOL
GreaselessAnkle 1 year ago
GREAT VIDEO! Thanks for sharing!
Happy Trading!
StockMarketVideo 1 year ago
Peter Schiff always gets attacked by those who have a proven track record of BEING WRONG. Important lesson to those that follow confidence, instead of intelligence.
pk1225 2 years ago
Can someone explain to me why they keep bringing Peter Schiff in, when his message is not the one the want to get across to the public?
I'd think they either should have a milder pessimist, or bring in a total clown that can be more easily ridiculed. So why do they keep inviting Peter?
Dooiefries 2 years ago
thats a really good point and i cant think of an answer other than a lot of people in cnbc do not have an agenda, and have enough authority to get him on
sony8877 2 years ago
Keynes is full of garbage! By all means study him and Marx, but understand that these are basically fascist economics.
Real economics is the Austrian School. This crisis was casued by loose US fiscal and monetary policy leading to serious economic imbalances and the bursting of housing. Someone explain to me how this can be caused by the market when it is the STATE that inflates bubbles through fiat money and inflation-fueled growth? Weath confiscation in periods of deflation and inflation!
ericclaptonismygod31 2 years ago
Peter Schiff is just being realistic. Apply common sense to everything that he says & you will see that he is right.
moybutter 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
"Austrian" economists like Schiff use this apocalyptic rhetoric to try to add authority to their fringe beliefs because they know their ideas are really weak and dubious. They're just the flip side of the people who make careers out of forecasting doom from overpopulation, global warming, famines, plagues and resource depletion. Name me one "Austrian" economist who thinks that we'll probably just muddle through this crisis with a decent standard of living intact.
conradjulian 2 years ago
I can understand how you feel. Global warming forecasters use scare tactics to drum up a storm, and Austrian economists are sounding alot like them with their predictions of doom. But theres a difference between them: Peter Schiff's predictions are based on fact. Because of the Fed's manipulation of the money supply, hyperinflation is a real risk. I recommend Murray Rothbard's "The Case Against the Fed," which gives a basis for the argument that Peter doesn't have time to explain on these shows.
stad718 2 years ago 3
I'm guessing mr. conradjulian hasn't seen any of the peter schiff is right videos.
Jinxguy1000 2 years ago 3
The Austrian School of Economics is the Common Sense School of Economics. If we have a recession caused by too much inflation, too much borrowing to consume from other countries, gov't interference in the economy, then how is more of the same going to help? Our national debt is now 78% of GDP & our dollar has lost 30% of its value over the last 20 yrs. How much more money do you think that we can print & borrow before our dollar collapses? When are we going to face reality?
moybutter 2 years ago 2
I think that Keynesians are the ones forecasting doom to convince everyone to bail out failed industries. They continue to say that not bailing out failed industries will create economic collapse. Austrians only believe that prices and wages will adjust and output will do likewise.... In time.
tailboard 2 years ago 2
"I believe the dollar will remain the denomination of choice"
Are you shitting me? How is that a possibility? Even a remote possibility?
To say that US management and RnD is what's gonna keep it that way is laughable, first off US RnD is done mostly by foreigners that came to the USA, following the money. SEcondly if american management and rnd is so good then why are US companies dying left and right? GM sure could benefit from some proper management and rnd so they don't build crap.
MANofINACTION 2 years ago
All good Pete, your a wack job like the rest of us realist people. In the end we will have the last laugh. These tards on CNBC will say w/e their boss tells them to say.
nycflag 2 years ago 2
"Go back a couple years and see how what I said played out" ZZZZZZZZINNNGGGGGGG!!!
jjcarlso 2 years ago
Listen to Peter Schiff . He has been proven right many times over.
ziradith 2 years ago 2
It's amazing that these clowns still doesn't get it!
gnuochtapir 2 years ago
yeah peter schiff is right about all that occurred and how we're fucked. But has he told you the rest of the world is controlled by the same people. The same people want the whole world and not just Us. Everything is controlled by these evil fools. you think that just by getting out of america you are getting away from the end game plans?Foolish idea. Noose is tightening all around globe. Dragnet will nab all useless eaters no gold will help you when they will just take it away from you.Fools
rrdrums110 2 years ago
more fodder for future "Peter Schiff Was Right" editions. Of course it doesn't matter because these fucktards will still be on cheerleading and getting air time no matter how many times they are wrong.
emp0rizzle 2 years ago 2
haha u.s. is going there and begging for them to do deals with us. The talking heads dont know anything.
kickndave21 2 years ago
"no they dont need us (China), you're wrong"
love it.
vegaspilot03 2 years ago
Sheeesh.. that stupid arsse whorish reporter acting like the many reporters years before crumbling before him.
at1212b 2 years ago
Doesn't it seem like both of the CNBC "reporters" were told to subtly attack Schiff? The whole thing seems forced as though they're carrying out an agenda they don't even understand. The woman starts laughing at Schiff as she's discussing decoupling but its not even clear that she understands what decoupling means. And Pisani's effort seems almost half-hearted as if he's smart enough to realize that he's doing little more than auditioning for the next 'Peter Schiff Was Right" video.
healthhavencom 2 years ago 2
Go Peter! Always smoking the media whores
mikeapple86 2 years ago 3
Those idiots will be on the "Peter Schiff was right 09/10" .
Everyone will laugh on those non sense economics of them , and Petre Schiff and the sound Austrian Economics will always prevail!
rolitofc 2 years ago 3
We won't have internet for a while after 2010 I'm fearing. Maybe someone will carve "Schiff was right!" into the ruins of a building but I'm kinda confident I won't be seeing youtube videos of it. :P
MANofINACTION 2 years ago
If those idiots think Peter is wrong they shoudl go and invest all their wealth in US T Bills. We can stick to gold and then laugh at them when the doller is dead.
The decline in the doller will get to a point then it will fall off a cliff as bond holders try to dump their reserves. we'll see what happens when china decides it doesn't want to hald the 2 trillion dollers it has in reserve and more.
andymholmes 2 years ago 4
schiff ROCKS!!! .... and I think the definition of news anchor is: a mindless idiot.
quietstormprod 2 years ago 2
CNBC just decoupled from reality ;-)
tummy14 2 years ago 4
lol
pro404 2 years ago
Peter Schiff Was Right 2: Total Meltdown.
Coming to YouTube 2014
seethepatterns 2 years ago 3
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the fact is that these two cnbc anchors blatantly ridicule, interrupt peter schiff after all those "peter schiff was right" videos, means that they bitterly know our economy is in a dire downward spiral. if you know how to follow bond market, currency market, and stock markets, then you will know that capital are fleeing the us in all those markets. Be prepared for a violent Greater Depression ladies and gentlemen.
Luckyhai 2 years ago
The two programmed memory bots on the right side are funny. Like to puppets. Classic.
putittogether 2 years ago
Who is the Shah asshole? Medium-term? This guy's inventing economic terms on daytime television. What a loaner...
gwohlproductions 2 years ago
What is it with these commentators (and I'm also referring to the ones that have chided Schiff over the last 5 years)? It's as if they live in a fantasy bubble and consistently want sunshine blown up their butts. They just cannot face reality even when it has already bashed them over their thick, brick-filled noggins.
Well, just save this piece and add it to the next "Schiff was right pt. 5" collection. God bless Austrian economics for allowing us to see reality.
jscott2700 2 years ago 3
.....listen to Peter....the news hates the real debate....thats why you still hear Peter Shiff trying to tell people more as they cut the transmission, because most people are too lazy to go on youtube and listen to everything else he has to say!
AUTiger2487 2 years ago
"I trust the dollar because I trust American innovation and technical expertise, so I believe the dollar will continue to be the reserve currency of the world."
Yeah . . . the fundamentals, basic economics and common sense notwithstanding, I guess. What a blockhead.
The dollar is finally showing the debilitation that was heralded by every serious, free market economist and Peter. The deleveraging of last year finally winding down, what's coming is hyperinflation.
ftorresgamez 2 years ago
I can't wait for all these "experts" mocking Schiff to lose EVERYTHING over the next year.
Hunger is the best teacher.
JumpinJesuits 2 years ago
Gotta love the last line. "At least Peter is consistent".
You know, maybe there's something to say for consistency. He was right.
tsopranos 2 years ago 4
Im glad Peter finally stepped up at the end and shut everyone down. I love his patience but sometimes i think he's too quiet.
treysparker 2 years ago 4
....and that's called decoupling my friends.
helpendthefed 2 years ago
Asia in a bubble!! hahahhahahahhaha!!! This Ron guy is a nut. I am just amazed how Peter has the patience to deal with these especially the bitch that always interupts him when he is trying to get his point across.
jjorge730 2 years ago 6
Agreed, she knew exactly where he was going with his comments and purposely interrupted in order to change the flow. I don't think she interrupted Ron once. At the end she says "I think we have to give last word to Ron." Fortunately, Peter got the last word.
DolphinFilms 2 years ago
the fact is that these two cnbc anchors blatantly ridicule, interrupt peter schiff after all those "peter schiff was right" videos, means that they bitterly know our economy is in a dire downward spiral. if you know how to follow bond market, currency market, and stock markets, then you will know that capital are fleeing the us in all those markets. Be prepared for a violent Greater Depression ladies and gentlemen.
Luckyhai 2 years ago 2
Ron is basically advocating that US companies do more offshoring. The same MBA idiots that destroyed their own companies in search of next quarters bonus by offshoring to cheap labor. He calls this "skilled management"???
Offshored products are mostly garbage, things that used to lats for 15 years now fall apart after 2. It's false economy. American MBA's couldn't "manage" a circle jerk even though thats what they mostly do all day. Stay away from companies that offshore.
kayaker712 2 years ago 4
FF to 5:50. What a giant boat full of PWNED.
Considering his past track record, I'd listen to what Peter has to say Very Very closely.
ResistanceNational 2 years ago 3
Pete was right and will continue to be right...he is honest, the dollar is going down and Congress is to blame for this! Vote out your Congressman!
turbobrain 2 years ago 5
LOL When they make the next "Peter Schiff Was Right" youtube these bobbleheads will surely be in it.
OneTokeOver 2 years ago 4
Why are people still arguing with Peter? Are they being paid extra to do it? Are they masochists looking forward to being humiliated in the future? Who knows.
rockhuddy 2 years ago 4
how impolite and clueless is that woman? all she does is interrupt Peter and demands answers like she knows nothing
tchen6 2 years ago 3
I was kind of hoping the malls would be freely sold. :)
usedbymyusername 2 years ago
I was hoping the malls would be bulldozed.
kayaker712 2 years ago
Its not a "fantastic debate", its freaking reality.
Will someone please turn our malls into factories?
usedbymyusername 2 years ago
The only problem with that is ,the government will own them, and they will run them like a bad episode of "I Love Lucy"
cowboy1165 2 years ago
Closer to an episode of the "Three Stooges" I think
kayaker712 2 years ago
Yeah and that idiot Ron wants to invest in more companies offshoring to China. That's NOT management expertise, it is laziness and greed. I pull all my money from companies that offshore.
kayaker712 2 years ago
Excellent point and spot on!
OldHickory 2 years ago
Four people on an island. Three work, one consumes. The consumer pays the workers in IOUs. The workers pile up IOUs while the consumer gets fat and sits on his rear. The workers may currently "depend" on the consumer for work, but they are really just supporting a sloth while piling up a bunch of irredeemable IOUs. The workers would be better off without the consumer if they just worked to feed themselves. This is China and America in a nutshell. China is NOT dependent upon the US.
coachkemp34 2 years ago 3
This ain't the first time he was laughed at on these news shows!
victoriaous 2 years ago 2
Isn't it hilarious how these CNBC clowns always try to ridicule Peter. History has shown that that CNBC is completely clueless when it comes to what it happening in the economy. I love watching these douchebags having to admit they were wrong, when Peter's predictions come true.
tsmith2187 2 years ago 5
hmmmmm austrian economics predicted the bubble in the market and all the other economists said there was no bubble hmmmmmm this is tough ??!!
chambernater 2 years ago 4
To put things in perspective - if I lent you all sorts of money to spend a fraction of that money on my business and paid back the loan with counterfeit money, then how does that demonstrate my dependence towards you??
kennyfreakinrocks 2 years ago
Does CNBC have an unlimited supply of bimbos?
Schiff won this debate hands down.
The only thing China wants from Americans at this point is their money back. But the money is all gone. Which means in their eyes, we are a nation of dead beats.
healthhavencom 2 years ago 5
why were they trying to discredit him like that? His 'mandate'? WTF? Its almost like saying ur a cheat and are fooling the people for personal gain. That too from CNBC reporters. Quite ironical.
sparshparimoo 2 years ago 2
lol @ 5:53 XD
xxpunkermxx 2 years ago 2
That was just a big, steaming mug of STFU, courtesy of Peter Schiff. Awesomeness.
aclove78 2 years ago 3
That just about somes it up perfectly!
tummy14 2 years ago
That debate needed to last 30 more seconds. Peter almost jumped out of his skin when he heard "codependence." He would have eaten that guy's lunch.
Skinsfan819 2 years ago 2
Oh Gosh...Everything is OK !!!
What a couple of MSNBC talking pin heads!!
I'll listed to Peter Schiff thank you very much! By doing what he said I have gained 30% while my friends lost big-time.
VirginianAmerican 2 years ago 3
India & china is in bubble because they had event driven ralleys in past few days?........
Am I missing somthing here? I thought bubble is something when market rise for no reason? There is definately a reason behind rise in Indian & Chinese market (and it is the same events what shah is talking about).
newnp 2 years ago
Agreed. That guy lost all credibility after he said that.
Peter ate his lunch.
healthhavencom 2 years ago
I like that all they can STILL do is giggle at him. They think he's a BEAR... but he's not. He knows we can BULL elsewhere, and we are if we pay attention.
All they did was giggle at him for the last 5 years. Here we go. Time to make sure we don't listen to the gigglers anymore, and listen to the people with sound fundamental knowledge.
gwydion75 2 years ago 2
I wish they would put Peter on TV next to someone with more similar views so that it doesn't always digress into Peter telling the other parties that they're flat out wrong. He makes his argument well enough, but for whatever reason, co-guests never seem to be able to disarm him.
CNBC anchor to other guy: "We're going to put you on TV, but in the same bit with Peter Schiff."
Other guy: "With who? It doesn't matter anyway, as long as it's TV time..."
Suprise!
tr0p 2 years ago
This Shah guy sucks...
Thrice13 2 years ago
The US dollar is crashing and if you don't prepare now you will soon be broke when hyperinflation arrives. Read the articles and signup for the free newsletter at: Inflation . us
jzmdi493 2 years ago
They still won't listen to him. I doubt either of those tards even know what decoupling is.
Do they expect global trade to completely change dynamics in a month or two?
svenp 2 years ago
Here are your future 3rd world country anchors trying to do their best on government TV.
BlueSkies360 2 years ago 4
Gosh, Mr. Schiff must be getting a tumor with all of these maladroits who keep saying how he is wrong. As Panpiper quoted the one and only Peter Schiff, "Why don't you go back and look at the things I said two years ago and see how that tune is playing out."
moonraven3 2 years ago 4
"Why don't you go back and look at the things I said two years ago and see how that tune is playing out."
Hehe.
Panpiper 2 years ago 9
Yup. Good job by Peter shoving it down their throats but I hope he doesn't do that too much. Stick to explaining the fundamentals.
Epic878787 2 years ago
I agree - but i have to say this is the first time i've seen Peter use the "i told you so argument"... whilst we don't want him to bring out the big guns everytime - i think we all agree that he was fully justified in giving it to these morons both barrels!
tummy14 2 years ago 2
Thanks for the quick upload!!!
arnejess 2 years ago 4