Adam Rogers with Chris Potter Quartet

[refsdal]

Suddenly unsure of whether it actually was Hutchinson or Nate Smith, my memory is failing me...

[refsdal]

To jputter and other haters: GTFO!

He might not play according to your aesthetics, and in the style of mainstream jazz, but how about opening up your narrow minded hearing for a "new" creative voice. I love how quick people are to put down what they don´t understand.

[refsdal]

Awesome! I actually went to London for that concert, had no idea it was out on youtube. Chris Potter was on fire that night (more than usual), especially on the bass clarinet, and I really dug the groove Gregory Hutchinson (dr) and Craig Taborn (Rhodes) had going. I found Adam Rogers to fit the group well, contrasting Potters style.

[bungholio80]

Adam Rogers is a monster. Listen to his 5 albums and you'll see, he's a monster bop player and an amazing writer. On top of that he's created his own sound on the tele, and is pushing jazz forward along with Potter.

He's an incredible sideman in Underground too and a big part of the their electric sound. Genius stuff.

[ThinkMink15]

what are the changes @ 0:10 sounds so simple but I cant find those voicings

[jongell]

@ThinkMink15 Hi Mink, I'm not near a keyboard or guitar, but try working from a 1st inversion triad... can definitely hear some starting this cycle.

Let us know how you get on!

[bungholio80]

@ThinkMink15 Dmaj7 - D7sus - E/D - C#/D - Eb/D in 3/4, Rest of song is in 15/8. I bought a set of charts from Chris Potter's website. Really great stuff! I'm actually playing this song for my recital tomorrow.

[torta323]

chill out, jputterman26. enjoy the music.

[frankenraerae]

to jputterman26:

if you really care about chris, you should leave his musical choice alone. he is a professional and he does not need any more 2 cents from a jazz fan like you. has it ever occurred to you that maybe he is just being polite by not telling you to shut up? chris and adam are very good friends and just imagine how he feels every time you (an outsider / jazz fan) criticizes his best friend in a most vicious manner? is that really what a fan should do?

[butrunioigneor]

sometimes the comments are more fun than the video itself haha...what a bunch of fucking nerds.

great guitar playing too...

[PhilippeSB]

its just about your inner sound,man!!!

[yougotcrad1]

yeah rogers is sick at building in complex

[bcolborn]

You are some dumb motherfuckers with a lot of time on your hands

[jongell]

Don't get me started man! I just couldn't back down from the shitty little jibes, so my video's turned into one of those ones with a needless, sweary argument underneath it like all the others on YouTube... oh well!

[bcolborn]

Unfortunately...too bad comments can't be deleted on here. I'm afraid that the novel you two wrote will be paid more attention than this video.

[jputterman26]

Been thinking about this. Adam, to my ears, needs to stop thinking about the time and start feeling the music with his soul. Technique is not music. Technique serves music.

[jongell]

Mate, I really can't be bothered going into this with you; you don't like Adam Rogers' playing? Good for you! I really like it.

For what it's worth, 'soul' is such a meaningless term to me! Music reaches your *mind* which creates a chemical reaction, felt as *feelings*. That might seem academic, but it would illustrate why some people would find Rogers playing emotional (with 'soul'), and some wouldn't: our different neurological responses to sound. We're just in different camps. All the best.

[jputterman26]

Funny, but I had a conversation with another jazz fan -- one who earns her living in the music -- last night. As I was taking a break between sets of listening to John Handy, etc.

Turns out we both think Adam is bland, and to top it off, she agrees with me on binney and hancock too.

So good luck. What else can I say? Ears grow.  Yours will. Ciao

[jazzshredder]

On the one hand we have you a non musician and your nameless "friends". On the other hand we have Chris Potter, Michael Brecker, John Pattitucci, Binney, Bill Evans and the Mingus orchestra. Wow! I guess they all must be or have been tone deaf. Do I love every line Adam plays? No, but I am schooled enough to realize that someone who has such an enormous amount of talent may just hear things a little differently than I do. The guy is simply one of the best guitarists alive.

[jputterman26]

If you believe that Adam is one of the best guitarists alive I suppose I should pity you. Bill Evans --the sax player? Give me a fucking break.

You may be right, on the other hand, that Adam "hears things a little differently." Unfortunately, or rather fortunately, I myself hear rhythm as significant to "music" and specifically to jazz. From what I've had to suffer through, that makes me different from Adam. And I guess you too.

[jongell]

All bow down to the mighty jputterman26. Just answer me this, big man, would you say the same thing you've just written to Chris Potter (who employs Adam in his band)? Do his ears need to grow, is he "different to you" too? Know better than him as well do you...?

[jputterman26]

I have had this conversation, several times. I know this band was fucking killin' when Wayne Krantz was the guitarist, and I know it isn't the same without him.

You all continue to worship speed or musicality. Good luck with that.

[jazzshredder]

Giving your opinion that the band was better with Wayne, is one thing. Maliciously dissing everything about Rogers playing and demeaning those who dare to disagree with you is another. Speed? That alone doesn't impress me. Being able to SWING through changes at any tempo does. Besides the fact that he is classically trained and is a mofo at the postbop thing, Adam plays bebop as well as or better than all but a handful of guitarists who do nothing else. Now go back to slurping your latte.

[jputterman26]

One has to understand rhythm to "swing through changes." You may not have heard Adam live, but he spends 30% of each solo, bending over his amp, twisting nobs. There is nothing musical about that, and it absolutely does not swing.

Maybe you are confused by the magic of some recording engineer? Either way, I wish you good luck.

I don't hear music when Adam strums.

[jongell]

Of all the guitarists to pick on for being tweaked in the studio to sound good, Adam Rogers is not the guy to pick on! You're really really getting wide of the mark with that one, showing real lack of judgement. I've seen him several times, playing different guitars, different amps, different pedals. His tone is consistently HUGE. And I love "one has to understand rhythm" being said re. Adam Rogers. you just can't hear it, you don't get it. We do (me, Potter and Brecker) You're missing out.

[jputterman26]

If Adam is rhythmic, I am glad I'm missing it. Sincerely glad.

[jongell]

And I'm telling you that if you can't hear that Adam is a rhythmically advanced player *whether you like him or not* you're being intentionally belligerent, and undermining your already shaky arguments.

Still haven't answered me re. Potter and Mike Brecker having worse taste then you. Going to get back to me on that? I don't like Ben Monder that much but I don't think I know better that Donny McCaslin...

[jputterman26]

If he's rhythmically advanced, then I guess you are actually the Queen of England.

Advanced means already having internalized everything that came before, and moving it forward. Rogers can't even move a tune forward.

[jongell]

Would you say that to Chris Potter, yes or no? Do get back to me on that, I have asked several times. You are saying that Chris Potter, Mike Brecker, Mingus Orchestra et al have all made a massive error in hiring a guitarist who can't successfully play jazz. Do you at least agree that that is what you are positing? Please address the argument, otherwise you just look really silly; you're just calling somebody names, as a grown adult.

[jputterman26]

As I've said previously, several times, I have had this conversation with Chris. You will have to find those posts. I will tell you that he did not agree with your ears re: rhythm. As to Michael Brecker, I have no idea when or how or why he used Adam. And the Mingus Orchestra needs positions filled, not necessarily by specific players. You can ask Sue Mingus why, and I'm betting the answer is about business.

Do I care if you think I look silly? Get on line.

[jongell]

I love the idea that Adam Rogers is getting booked just through business: "Get me Rogers, I need some 16th note outside pentatonic licks on this gig, otherwise the punters won't show up..."

And poor Chris, putting up with a guitarist he doesn't rate; taking him around the world in his group, year after year, eh? Poor Chris. He should hire someone he respects, shouldn't he? How about you recommend someone and we can all just agree with you; save ourselves some time.

[jputterman26]

You really don't have a life, do you?

Parse away. But I won't be answering your inanity.

[jazzshredder]

You're really on the money about Adam's sense of tone. Whether he's playing bebop or screaming fusion lines, he always has a huge tone. And that's not just due to equipment, tone comes from the hands as much as from anyting else.

[jazzshredder]

There's a video on here of Adam bopping through "Have You met Miss Jones" unaccompanied during a clinic. Must be an illusion! How can someone with "no rhythm" do that??? Why don't you post a video of yourself, Mr Woodwind player doing the same.

[jongell]

Right, fuck off Putterman, don't post shit like that on my video. Go fuck off back to your self-satisfied hole you horrible little man. Pot shots about fucking others' wives? Nice. Go away.

[dvmtb13]

Jputterman-- If you truly believe that youtube is a forum for low-brow crass insults, and that your comments on these videos are appropriate, I strongly suggest you reconsider. Everyone, aside from you, that has posted on this video is trying to enjoy and display their enthusiasm for this music. In no way whatsoever do your posts/replies accomplish anything close to be constructive or thought provoking. Please reconsider your approach to youtube as it is clear that many find it intrusive.

[jputterman26]

Thank you for your unwanted, and unwarranted criticism.

You walked in halfway through the discussion, but, of course I will bow to your superior, albeit condescending, intellect.

[jputterman26]

Oh, and I do play the woodwinds. So what else can I say? You stick with your schooling that makes you suffer through lackluster, and I'll continue to marvel over true guitar giants like Romero Lubambo, who I had the distinct pleasure to hear for two stunning sets this evening. (While you were bullshitting about your education on the youtube comments page!!)

[jputterman26]

Thinking about this, you are right. I do get a chemical and emotional reaction when I hear Adam. I get angry enough to wish I could smash his axe, and tie him up with the strings. And I cry.

[jongell]

Oh, you are funny! How funny! Because I said chemical reaction, and you took it to mean an angry one! Hahahaha! Oh, you.

You are the most unbearably arrogant individual I've encountered on YouTube, and your arguments are beyond substandard:

'a met someone who don't like him neither, so, like, that makes me right.'

Oh yes, silly me. That trumps Michael Brecker employing him. You win.

All that you have established is that people have differing tastes. Oh, and that you're a bit of a prick.

[jputterman26]

Fuck you too, novice. Stick with rock and roll, pencil penis.

[jputterman26]

NO actually, find me someone who has been listening to jazz everyday, in clubs and at home, for 45 years. And if that person likes Adam, I'll "admit" your ears are ok.

[jongell]

'Pencil penis'!?! Hahaha! That's amazing.

'Stick with rock and roll'? Unlucky for you (who can't even play) I'm a college-trained jazz guitarist. Maybe YOUR ears aren't good enough to hear what Adam's doing afer all?

'Pencil penis'!? That is literally amazing! 45 years and no wisdom to show for it; what a shame.

[jputterman26]

College trained? Wow. Oh man, you are a brilliant musician. I was wrong. Adam is right up there with the greats of guitar.

You know, like the guy on the steps in Animal House. Brilliant players like David Crosby, jimmy Page, Mike Huckabee.

[jongell]

You should do standup comedy. No, seriously, people would laugh at you.

Look whether I'm a musician, or whether you've been listening for 45 years or not is irrelevant. I'll take the word of the layman wherever possible, no qualifiers necessary. You were trying to say your opinon was more valid than mine, and I was countering that with my own validity. That you are musically ignorant is all the answer I need for your dislike of Rogers; let's call him a 'musician's musician' and leave it at that

[jputterman26]

Musician's musician is someone other musicians line up to see. Adam ain't that.

I would love to continue to listen to your half-assed bs, but I'm off to hear a real musician's musician: Barry Harris.

Of course, you don't know him, right? Monk used to listen to him, in the house they shared.

Ancient history for a wonder boy like you.

[jongell]

Well, I adore Monk so I'm sure Harris will be great. Check out England's own Stan Tracey (who I'll be supporting next week... sorry, couldn't resist) if you like that style.

Please, try not to be so disrespectful of the young: we will be carrying the flame of jazz when you're long gone, so being so arrogant and ageist is not going to help jazz's cause! Your message is going to be lost in people being pissed off with the tone you adopt.

[jputterman26]

I heard Stan Tracey live at ronnie Scott's several times. Probably before you were born. Glad he's still around.

I accept your advice, and I assure you I am involved in nurturing the young jazz men and women here in nyc. I deeply resent the ageist comment. Wisdom and hearing are ageless.

But I do honestly hope you remember how naive you were; when you grow up.

[jongell]

Well, if you don't want to appear ageist don't consistently refer to my young age in order to refute what I'm saying! That might help. And don't keep telling me to grow up.

But enjoy NYC and all it has to offer (even if I would be hanging out at the 55 Bar...)

[jputterman26]

I don't see a guitar player on that gig?!?!?

[jongell]

Que? Supporting; not as a side-man.

[jputterman26]

My misread. By the way, tonight it was the Vanguard, preeminent jazz club here. 55 is on my schedule for Weds. Then it's Jean-michele Pilc, Ari Hoenig, Tim Lefebvre, and Wayne Krantz. Considering that means Pilc plays electric keyboard, this should be similar to Underground. Pilc's gig, ya dig.

Don't know if you've had the pleasure, but the 55 is a classic rat-hole, with a great vibe. Sadly, however, it has changed since the owner, Queva Lutz, passed away.

[urbster1]

Are there any recordings of this Krantz Pilc gig?? I am so dying to hear it. If you were there please tell me how it was!

[jputterman26]

I am not aware of any recordings of this set, although the club may be recording all of their gigs. And sadly, it was a non-starter. Jean Michel showed up, and just said to the other cats, "I'll start a vamp and let's see what happens." Nothing important did happen. In short, the gig sucked.

[urbster1]

Hey, thanks. I'm trying to get into Wayne Krantz and am way interested to hear him play a little more out of his element. Bummer that the gig didn't turn out though.

[jputterman26]

It is too bad, because all of those cats can play. They just did not have it that night to play on pure improvisation. Had Jean Michel written some heads, or had they chosen to play some "standard" stuff, it might have been different.

That said, the Krantz/Potter gigs at the 55 were so intense, it's amazing the club did not spontaneously combust. If you can find any recordings of those (and there are some of that era on youtube under underground 2004) they are smokin.

[urbster1]

Oh yeah, there's an album out and I've got one live bootleg. Great great stuff. I was excited to hear that Krantz played with Hoenig too but as of yet I've not found any recordings.

[xMiloTheGreatx]

It's all about what the musician likes to hear. Maybe Miles Davis heard simpler lines, and so he played them. Maybe John Coltrane heard more notes, and he played them. Maybe Adam Rogers hears more outside and time altered lines, so he plays them as well.

[jputterman26]

Sorry to point this out, but when you are a member of a jazz group, listening to the other players, and helping to create something the group composes. Not what you would play if you were doing a solo gig. Playing like that is not good jazz. Maybe, just maybe, that is not music, either.

So I appreciate you helping me to finally frame my argument. Thanks.

[jongell]

Well put, xMiloTheGreatx. Eminently sensible comment; good improvisation comes in many flavours, and we can't expect to like each one, but should if we've a mature intellect be able to understand that others have different tastes that are valid.

I, for example, don't like eating cheese. I don't however pop up on YouTube cheese vids berating cheese-lovers for their lack of discretion*

Ya dig, jputterman26!?!?

*I've never seen such a video, but you get the point

[Saxyman14]

Using the same points from your argument though, perhaps the ability for everyone in said group to adapt to each other's personal style is what makes it good.

I do however, disagree with you completely. I think that Adam fits in this group perfectly. I mean, look at each of these musicians individually. I I would never have really thought that any of them belonged together. Sometimes it's the strangest things that are the most natural.

[jputterman26]

There are so many more interesting players out there than Adam. I don't understand the awe.

[jongell]

Well, It's my opinion that when you get to this level, 'more interesting' is almost totally subjective; who's to say who is more 'interesting' out of Krantz, Rogers, even Rosenwinkel et al if that's your bag? You've got your preference, I've got mine, but 'more interesting' doesn't help anybody, as who can quantify why certain musicians touch us and others don't? It's a personal thing.

Some of the finest musicians out there 'understand the awe', including Brecker, Potter and Steely Dan...

[jputterman26]

You are right. But I know some individuals involved in the jazz business, who have ears I admire, who hear what I do. No emotion. No structure to solos. No sense of rhythm. No musicality. Etc. Snoring.....

[jongell]

Ok, so we just hear totally different things in Adam Rogers' playing, essentially. I could point to numerous examples of all of the negative attributes you've listed being soundly trounced, but I doubt it'd help things! If you do want to change your mind I do recommend any of Adam's work with David Binney, but especially his playing on 'Follow The Red Line' by Chris Potter. Trust me, 'no emotion or musciality' would not be on any list of mine after listening to that.

[jputterman26]

I would have to be sedated and manually bound to listen to Adam and Dave Binney. Please don't take this the wrong way, but I hope your ears grow as you age. Mine have.

[jongell]

Well, I'll take it the way in which it sounds, friend: patronising and arrogant. How dare you wish for my ears to grow! How old were Tony Williams and Herbie when they started playing with Miles? In their teens. Did their ears need to grow too?

Such ignorance, that taste can only be garnered by advanced age.

[jputterman26]

First of all, the answer is yes, their ears needed to grow, as do those of all superb jazz musicians. They never stop hearing better.

Second, that you would mention Herbie indicates I was correct. You will learn, whether you find me arrogant or not!!  ;-)

Seriously, Adam, Binney, and Herbie are not who you should think about. Try Christian, the Rabbit, and Walter Norris on for size.

[jputterman26]

PS I just saw your myspace page. At least we both admire Antoine Doinel!!!!!!!

[jongell]

Gotta agree on something! Nice one.

[jputterman26]

All jazz fans are my friends. I just won't be there at any Binney/Rogers gigs. Happy listening.

[giantsteps06]

I love his funky sound on this tune and (of course) his killer chops!

[CJaazz]

O yeah, this is sick

[derricksax]

I love this man's playing

[jsingleton03]

you like this sorta playing? look up videos of a guitarist from Australia called James Muller! He'll blow your mind!!

[jazzmaster3000]

Santana is all right...if all you want to hear is pentatonic licks..

[simguit]

Modern jazz is all about pentatonic men.

[futboler454]

I think there's a little more to it.

[simguit]

Yeah, surely, but the study of pentatonic is essential for modern jazz  playing. There are tones of things that are way more complex than the pentatonic into this music.

[jongell]

I agree, whilst there are lots of complex concepts used by Adam Rogers (too complex for me to understand just yet; he's got some kind of highly evolved chromatic sense, and v e r y long lines!), from transcribing some of his solos it seems to me that it's pentatonics that form the foundation most of the time. Pentatonics is a massive area of study, especially in fusion (e.g. Mike Brecker)

[Modes9]

I love Adam's playing. Intervallically speaking, he is one of the most interesting around. In addition to Scott Henderson, you might also like Frank Gambale, Bireli Lagrene, and particularly Wolfgang Muthspiel from Austria. The guitar is finally catching up to saxophone and piano!

[skezness]

carlos santana is better...

[jongell]

What a bizarre statement to make!

'Better' is an odd word, as they both occupy very very different musical spheres.

Santana shares a fraction of Adam Rogers' harmonic vocabulary, but he is in control of what he does know, so perhaps people would in general prefer his 'feel'.

Personally, I prefer Adam's less bombastic tone and style by a long way. Tone-wise, harmonically and stylistically I feel him to be a far, far superior improviser.

[skezness]

woa thanks for being civilized(wich is rare in youtube), i was just kidding actually, i like rogers better!

sorry XD

[drewbydrums]

I am glad that there are still intelligent people on youtube, instead of people bashing great explanation, adam is so incredible man have you heard the stuff he has done with Matt Garrison?

[skezness]

nope, actually i don't have anything by him. i think it's time for me to start buying some music

[drewbydrums]

yeah I was gonna link you to the matt garrison dvd on here I have it personally but it seems like matt took down the one with him and adam trading its great

[GuyDanielsIII]

Yes, Garrison's debut CD has 3 tracks with Rogers...first rate fusion playing that needs to be heard.

[Odiculeoj]

Adam truly has his own voice...

Doesn't sound like Henderson at all (IMO)

[talmadge42]

what effect may he be using?

[jongell]

He was going into an old vox ac30 through a TS9 tubescreamer, and a touch of analog delay to fatten things up for certain bits... but there was no 'effect' on this solo, it's just the phone mic compressing things so it sounds a bit squashed!

[handdancin]

sounds a little like scott henderson for a while... thats cool

[improvisations]

Potter doesn't sound too bad either! (:

[linusjazz]

Adam is a great guitarist, very original and creative!

[onowen99]

check out this unbelievable highschool band. Search for Princeton whiplash (both parts, 1 and 2)

[jgasparmoura]

Such nice lines and fluidity! And great sound from his Tele !! Great picking technique also.

Guys should check out also Joao Gaspar, guitar player from Brazil.

[Murakamizo]

wow Adam Rogers plays so nice! amazing sound.

[archtop16]

Without a doubt, one of the best new talents on jazz guitar. It's such a shame that the mainstream guitar magazines give virtually no coverage to jazz players.

[Odiculeoj]

Such creative lines... inside~outside luv indeed!!

[isaacalves]

master of guitar. one of the best around