Rowing - Bow Coxed 4 Race Start UVRF

[yoctocb]

This is the classic american style of coxing. Listen to Peter Cippolone doing the Head of the Charles or the guy from St Ignatius at Henley Royal Regatta - they all love to count their power tens or focus tens.

[LV2PLA]

I actually laughed out loud at this one - for two reasons: 1) you are correct that this is old-school American style that we fall back on when paying attention to something else during a power piece (checking run, discerning point and course corrections, determining if the power is doing anything vs. competitors - here paying attention to filming and steering), and 2) Pete and I coxed together in high school, ergo same base training and style. Ah, to be young and dumb again. Or at least, young.

[herb821]

coxing styles are dependent on what the rowers want, my cox always asks what we like and dont like. some boats will prefer more aggressive coxing while others prefer to be left alone more. personally ive seen both extremes were ive counted several hundred strokes in a steady state between the cox saying anything, and ive had a cox not shut up and screw up my mental focus

[redskater42]

I am a rower. I also row a four. Personally when my coxswain counts I find it very repetitive and I don't like it. If i where you I would make my voice deeper, which sounds dumb but it helps. I also would suggest using phrases like "aggressive catches", "push and send", and rythmic phrases help too.

[portugreekman]

as a rower i personally hate it when a coxie calls each number of a power piece. i would recommend that for say, a power or technical focus 10, you count some of the strokes and fill the rest in with calls.

ex. "Power 10 in two. one, two. GO, two, three, with the legs push it, six, seven, you're at a 34 (rate), nine, ten," followed by another technical call

[kanefpuga]

Worst thing to hear as a rower is the cox NOT counting. I thought he did just fine

[BoJanglezzzzzz]

Out of interest, is there any particular reason you continue counting every stroke after the power 20?

[leokaykay]

@BoJanglezzzzzz seems like amateur coxing to me! worst thng to hear as a rower is the cox counting..

[mbw12194]

hey man i'm just passing on what my friend said. at the start rowers are nervous and anxious to get out in front, but if you let them they'll end up dying. at the finish is when they need the inspiration to rip the water a new one. Also, my friend was Paul Moca, nnational team coxwain and former world champion in the m8 and the youth m8. so unless you are a 3 time world champion coxwain (and judjing from your language that isn't likely), I'm taking his advice over yours.

[MsInformed01]

my team has that exact same bowloader, so crazy!

[AxelPRC]

good counting coxwain you sound like a retard you dont need to count every stroke haha

[randomginger111]

I row but here is my advice: We start with 3 x 3/4, then 5 full to wind up the stroke rate/power, 22 strokes hard on the legs and then settle it out into around 34-36 s/m depending on how far up we are after the start ; )

[blueeyedkid]

hmm..recently weve been trying a huge start sequence. we go start six ( 3/4 1/2 1/2 3/4 3/4 full) then IN TWO high ten, IN TWO second high ten, IN two power ten, IN TWO settle ten...the in two's add a few extra strokes without seeming to lengthen the start mentally, and having such a long start helps us get an early lead. the subsettle really helps bring the rate down, while maintaining a high boatspeed. racepace is usually a 37, with the start and sprints in the mid 40's

[5dollamakeyaholla]

Tip: remember, if you say anything negative to the crew you need to follow it up with something good. example. "6, your skying your oar, but good power, keep it up.

[LV2PLA]

To add to that suggestion: I always included the rest of the boat when I would point out a negative aspect of a rower's form and include the correction - and have the boat all focus on that aspect. It saved rowers' egos and created a sense of team. eg: "Six, you are skying your blade. Keep one level handle height throughout the return. In fact, let's have all eight focus on consistant handle heights for the next ten strokes."

[bman3612]

My start is always 1/2 1/2 3/4 1

[crbg2004]

My Favourite is a 3/4, then 1/2 1/2 1/2 3/4 3/4 then build for 4 to full slides (making a total of 10 so far) then a power 15 or 20 to make it 25 or 35

[ba11arat2001]

Good point.. They are to far into the anaerobic at the start.

[popear1937]

with my old crew we always did 3/4, 1/2, 1/2, 3/4, full and that always seemed to work well for us

[waterbuoyish]

There're LOTS of great starts and the start should be tailored to the crew you have. Our very large crew liked 3/4 (a 'pry'), 1/4 (a 'stab'), 1/2, 3/4, full. Got us away faster than alot of lightweights.

[FullMetalFrankie]

That is an interesting start pattern you have. My pattern for my girls is: Half- half Three Quarter- Full- Full . Then weighenough.

[1viewer6]

What is important is how the rowers stay together at the start along with their blade depth, set, etc What is not so important is whether they choose a half, half, three quarters start or three quarters, half, half, three quarters, start. Ideally, bow Coxed boats should be taken out by more experienced crews & stern coxed boats taken out by novices who need pointers on their bladework and timing from the cox.

[fitz4000]

that looks alright,

i think that u should keep the 3/4 as the first stroke,

then have at least 2 or 3 1/2 slide after to pick the boat up a bit more before trying to drive away and settle

[lookmad57]

to do a 3quarter aqnd then a half after it, its very easy to understand ? the first stroke is to just pull you off the blocks then the 2 halfs to pick it up and add another 3 quarters and legs 20 and there ya go...6 seats up

[nateo200]

Get a little more aggressive with the tone. Your tone was pretty boring and unmotivating but you can easily fix that. Our starts our 1/2, 3/4, full, full, high 20, lengthen 10, and it seams to work. I don't understand why you would go 3/4 then half it seams weird, we used to do it that way but our new starts are better. BTW I'm a rower.

[AxelPRC]

really i thought he sounded like a dork. In New Zealand coxwains are pretty relaxed they only show urgency when it is needed. If a coxwain is aggressive all the time it become boring and same old same old. And at the start of the race you dont need any motivation, you arent struggling mentally. If a coxwain psycs his crew up at the beginning of the race before the boat is at speed the rowers rip the blade on the racing start which kills the boat speed

[Dementedchef]

So true, good tip, thanks. (I'm a cox). :D

[mbw12194]

@AxelPRC the point of a coxwain is basically to make you go slower at the start and faster at the finish. makes your rowing much more consistant.

[AxelPRC]

@mbw12194 thats not the point of a coxwain at all are you a fucking idiot?? a coxwain steers the boat makes the calls and works to get the most out of their crew by reading the race and executing the race strategy whilst motivating their crew. A coxwain isnt supossed to make you go slower and the start thats retarded. A good coxwain says the right things at the right time with the right tone of voice the rowers take care of the rest. Your lucky i even replied to a stupid comment like this.

[Dementedchef]

Its better to do a 3/4 first because, if you think about it, if you and another crew start at the same time, they do a half stroke, they stop pulling, go up to the catch, and you are still pulling and moving your boat. Who's going to get the better start? YOU. I got that advice for a world champion sculler, (a BSHS oldboy) so, deny me if you want but, three quarter is better.

[averagebrando]

There was an article in Rowing News about starts this past year; I think it was Volker Nolte's column. He recorded three different starting sequences and found there was little difference in distance traveled over the course of each starting sequence. It just goes to show that you can't win the race at the start. Personally, I'm a fan of a 3/4 - 1/2 - 3/4 lengthen - full - start, but if you look at a guy like Tufte, he can row half slide for a bunch of strokes off the start and still win.

[LV2PLA]

Well said - there isn't that much difference other than personal preference.

Basically, the mantra holds: Nobody ever won a race at the start, but you can lose it there.

Try different starts with your crews, and go with whatever feels best for that boat.

[lookmad57]

callin out the start eg. 3qtrs, half, half...doesnt work either. for the a standard racing start eg. 3qtrs, half, half, 3qtrs you should be calling for the rowers to draw up the boat for the first stroke to set it up for the two short sharp jabs, like the calls id probly use wud be in the lines of....draaw, catch, catch, draw...legs for 20...NOW ! ya gotta think about what there doin, your not just there to steer and count strokes and tell stroke rate, your there to improve boat speed.

[yayskiingyay]

Our starts are half, half, three quarters, full and then high ten, lengthen 10 and another high ten. does the three quarters, half, three quarters work well?

[LV2PLA]

I've done the 3/4, 1/2, 3/4 start with a national team, and the 1/2 1/2 3/4 with an international boat. I've found minimal difference so long as the rowers remain in control and don't just flail. It's basically coach's personal preference on the choice. As far as stroke combos after the start (high 10's, lengthening 10's, etc), that depends on the characteristics of the crew: can they stay high and stay effective, or do they just spin wheels, etc? Again, much of it is coach's preference.

[L0ngLiveMetallica]

@LV2PLA those are all good points, i am not a cox, but i am stroke seat in a quad and 4+ and in stroke 4 of an 8+, and i've found the best start is 3/4 - 1/2-3/4-3/4-full high 10, length 10 then high 20 length 10, high 10, length 10, high 20 and so on, although i don't have many years experience, i have found this to be the most effect, and as ive seen you have said, its all about crew preference and that is just our preference :D

[soadfan1224]

Though I do the advantages of a bow cox, I personally prefer stern, mostly because you develop a more personal connection with the rowers. You're less of a mysterious voice to the stern. Also, you can actually see the oars and help correct mistakes. No crew is perfect, reminding them of clean catches/etc. when you see it is always helpful.

[1710ben]

ooo dear! much betta to have a cox at the stern:) plus the cox can actually see the timing etc and is steering harder at the bow?

cool video though to see what it looks like from ur point ov view :)

[LV2PLA]

You nailed it on the head: putting the cox in the bow removes their ability to see and coach the rowers. I have yet to meet a coxswain that truly enjoys a bow-loader. Personally, I loathed them. The view is cool, but you basically are reduced to ballast, and little more. It had been about 20 years since I'd coxed one of these, thankfully.

[AxelPRC]

bow coxed fours are apparently faster boats

[ETAG231189]

@AxelPRC their better on the balance because of the weight of the cox is placed lower

[k2477456]

@AxelPRC they are more aero dynamic and longer so its hydro dynamic

[kozznz]

Ah the memories, when I used to be able to fit in a bow-coxed four...

One of the clubs I raced against in college (as a bowman, not a cox) had a bow-coxed 8. I have no idea how they managed to keep the coxswain from getting whiplash just from check; all he had to hold support his head was a piece of seatbelt strap. Poor bastard had to cox the premier men's 8 and the consistently ranked in the top 5 crews.

[leapercon7]

what is the advantage of moving the cox to the bow?

[xwishyouawayxmcr]

it's easier to steer. and you don't have the blind spot directly in front of the bow ball due to the rowers blocking the coxswain's view.

[SlySpartan117]

They let you take a camera out on the water? Was this a practice piece?

Also, check out some more coxswain tapes to really push your coxing to the next level. Growl your voice and call them for actual techniques not just counting.

[nmkski92]

all you're doing is counting for them they went to kindergarden. push them, u know

5 for technique

5 for legs dont count every stroke

[LV2PLA]

Thanks, but the actual point for this was testing out the new video camera, and not much else.

If you check my other rowing videos, it shows that occasionally I do a little more than simply play "The Count" from Sesame Street.

I get ribbed about the counting almost weekly, and it's always amusing to me! Most just talk trash, but you actually gave suggestions - shows you're a pro trying to help a perceived beginner, rather than a wiseguy simply trying to measure his penis.

Thank you!

[kozznz]

To add to the previous comment - at race time when counting out every stroke you run the risk of another cox picking up your piecework and pacing your crew for the duration...and your crew will f*cking hate that. Most of the time in the race they're concentrating on other stuff anyway, you can give them the abridged version.

Code words are safer - we used colours (black = sprint, red = 20, green = 10, white = settle for 10).

Alternatively do weird numbers, sets of 11 or 17 or whatever.

[styn3s]

rate 39/40 start?? heavyweight crew?

[wigganegg]

why dont you use your hands to steer? get a coxbox holder!

[LV2PLA]

Can't get a coxbox holder, as our club only leases this boat; not nice to drill holes and mount hardware in someone else's shell.

I can't really reach the tiller with my hands as I am past my coxing prime and no longer fit in the bow-loaders (I loathe them, anyway). I'm too long, so reaching to the tiller with my hands means I have to sit up, thereby raising my cg and throwing off the set. Plus, in this case I was trying to hold the camera steady with my hands.

[cox2rower]

how do u keep straight if you cant see ur rudder?

[LV2PLA]

In a bow-coxed 4, there is a lever (tiller) that is attached to wires reaching all the way to the rudder in the stern. When the tiller is centered, so too is the rudder. When it is moved to one side, the boat will turn in that direction.

You will notice I am holding the tiller between my knees through this sequence, with them moving from side to side slightly in an attempt to maintain point.