King George VI & Queen Elizabeth Stakes 2010 - Harbinger

[thespacialone]

I love the way the camera pans out at the end so much. You can almost see half the track, cause that's how much he won by!

Even now no question in my mind this is the best thing I've seen in racing, probably the best thing I've seen in sport.

[GBeret83]

Not that anyone was going to beat Harbinger in this race on this day. But it would've been interesting, IMO, to see how well Dar Re Mi would've fared against this field had she not been scratched out of this race?

[wilbon1975]

Awesome!!! Deservedly topped rankings for 2010. Black Caviar (AUS) is going for 13 starts, no losses, and 6 in a row at G1 level this weekend - similarly always makes it look easy and always wins by 3 - 7 lengths (hands and heels) over 1200m and less - making the margins comparable to longer gaps over mile and more. Like Harbinger, a fitting new No1 in the world.

[GBeret83]

Still the most dominate King George victory I've seen in my lifetime. Especially given that every horse in the race, bar Confront, was a G1 winner, and some multiple G1 winners.

[GBeret83]

I was a very big fan of Harbinger. Hate that his career ended on such a shitty note. I think Harbinger was definitely a legit G1 horse. But that said, I also think Harbinger was an Ascot specialist. Only his races at Ascot did Harbinger dominate the field's he came up against. Look at his other races at tracks like Newbury or Chester, and Harbinger didn't dominate anything like he did at Ascot. He was to Ascot what Illustrious Blue is to Goodwood, or what Famous Name is to Leopardstown, IMO.

[thespacialone]

Hey! Well, for this one race routing elite 130-odd Gr1 performers (I know of 3 in this field) was unprecedented for me. I know there were ground concerns (possibly after the event) for Workforce, but the others were about as far from mugs as you can get. STS was able to show he could do it all, which is what possibly predicated his 140 rating, but as good as he was he never managed what Harbinger did here (I realise it wasn't his "Style"). It's a head-scratcher!

[littlebay75]

you watch this over and over and if your a true racing fan you can see that it was a very spectacular performance stoute is a genius trainer and to get workforce back to win the arc is amazing but would so loved to have seen more of harbinger

[thespacialone]

Hilarious. All the others flat to the boards round the bend while he was lobbing along, still cantering two and a half out, and then goes on to win by 11! I've seen more emphatic turns of foot, I think, but never a horse finish off a race as well.

[bgardiner2000]

@thespacialone FYI - interesting article in the RP today about this very subject.

[SIDESLAM]

Things can go wrong on the track and things can go wrong on the gallops, anybody that has writen WORKFORCE out winning the Arc on Oct 3rd could eat humble pie.

He had 2 runs then broke the Epsom Derby record, punters forget things way to easy, stick with him should he line up on Oct 3rd.

[Shemfreedom]

wow this is really co--ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL

[ThefightingCelt]

Harbinger suffered a severe injury on the gallops and is out for season. May not run again.

[MrNativeDancer]

@TheEnglandWC  Hey sorry I missed the race. Do you know if he won then? (Duncan)

[GBeret83]

England's RacingPost web-site has a video reel comparing Harbinger and Sea The Stars. There's no question that Harbinger ran one of, if not the most impressive King George's ever. But he's a got a street and then some before he could be compared to what Sea The Stars accomplished in 2009. IMO. I'm not entirely convinced Harbinger is a shoe in for the Arc? What if he doesn't handle the ground at Longchamp? There's plenty of talent that would quickly outrun him if he can't. He's not STS. Far from.

[ashleycolemobilefone]

It was a poor poor Derby, a 100/1 pacemaker still infront 2 out and finishes second tells you everything about the race this year. Workforce's performance on the day was very good but its unlikely he will ever produce anyything like that agin, bit of a fluke I think, that not to say he wont win more races, hes just not a wonder horse llike a Shergar. I dont think you will see Workforce going right handed again, he never looked comfortable but Harbinger was in a league of his own on the day.

[MrNativeDancer]

why do people go on about the Derby not being reliable. The Derby course takes a lot out of horses, its a difficult race, much more difficult then the King George vl

I have no doubt Harbinger would not of beaten Workforce in the Derby if they had met there. If it was how the track was riding, then why was Workforce the only horse that day to break a record? Because he was the best horse on that day! Just like Harbinger was in the King George.

[guitarlegend32]

....Cup by Silver Patriarch yet turn the tables easily in the same years KG.Harbinger has for me,got to produce something at least similar elsewhere over perhaps a different distance.His Timeform rating of 142 is an absolute insult to Dancing Brave,Sea The Stars and Mill Reef who did it again and again over various distances and varying tracks and in group 1 company always.

[5overlord]

It's maybe going a bit far to call Harbinger's mark an 'insult' but I totally agree that on the basis of one run he's elevated from a good gr.1 horse to the supposed superior of MR,DB,STS among others? It'll be interesting to see if Timeform stick to this mark now that he's not gonna get the chance to validate it. As for Swain, his defeat at Epsom by Silver Patriarch was just an off day IMO. He'd won an earlier Coranation Cup really bravely against Singspiel who was 10lbs better than SP for me.

[GoT2SpoNgE]

@5overlord you do know harbinger is Retired you muppet

[5overlord]

@GoT2SpoNgE "It'll be interesting to see if Timeform stick to this mark now that he's not gonna get the chance to validate it." That's what I wrote and anybody with half a brain cell would decipher from that that I of course knew he was retired. The fact that you are too stupid to understand what I'd written is nobody's problem but yours. However, please take my advice and stop embarrassing yourself.

[GoT2SpoNgE]

@5overlord Wow if you knew anything about Racing you'd know as soon as a horse Retires to stud or gets injured they are withdrawn from TFR you idiot , now go home

[thespacialone]

@GoT2SpoNgE Actually, he's still top rated at 140, and at no stage been removed since the retirement was announced. I think they usually keep them on till the end of the season, don't they, even though I think it's officially for horses in training? Looks like the mark is going to stay, and on this performance in particular it's hard to blame them, but on the other hand you'd like a bit of a fuller cv to fully justify it.

[bgardiner2000]

@thespacialone Timeform has him at 142 and his peak RPR was 135. You're right, Harbinger is still on the list and will be until after the IFHA release the official world rankings.... must be pretty soon. You're also absolutely dead on with the fuller CV comment IMO. I guess that's the problem with the peak performance indicators. I doubt anyone could watch this race and begrudge him an "above average Group 1 winner" rating... but in comparison to STS's achievements? Interesting question huh?

[thespacialone]

@bgardiner2000 We've certainly been spoiled the past few seasons. A horse as classy and likeable as you could hope for in STS, a huge "what if" last term in Harbinger, and the potential for one that might prove best of the lot this year! - let's hope he stays fit and well. Best regards, TSO

[bgardiner2000]

@thespacialone I assume you're talking about Frankel? He looks like something else alright! This season looks like being very interesting with the Australian horse So You Think going to Ballydoyle. He for mine looks like he will be very competitive in the ~10F races if he trains on. And if they send either Black Caviar or Hay List to Europe for the sprints?? It could be beer and BBQ's all round ;)

[thespacialone]

@bgardiner2000 I took him on last time for biggish stakes (with Dream Ahead) last time, not a mistake I'll be making again! You're right, So You Think looks power-packed, hind quarters of a jumper, could well be the one to beat next season. A couple to (potentially) follow is always good! Over obstacles, very much liked the look of Peddlers Cross. Looks to face a pretty thankless task at the Festival, but I think I'll keep the faith.

[bgardiner2000]

@GoT2SpoNgE No they're not. Have a look on the Racing Post today ;)

[WhiteCamry]

One for the Hall of fame.

[guitarlegend32]

P.S you is not spelt u,mate.

[guitarlegend32]

...opinion of the stable staff at Freemason Lodge as to who was superior.Also if he ran his race why was Confront only 2 lengths behind at the end?Surely he's way,way superior to him,Stoute wouldn't have ran him else and I'm sure he knows far more than me and you.

[guitarlegend32]

@HereWeGoAgain595 Why haven't you replied on the Jan Vermeer case?My OPINION is based on A.my eyesight(WF was extremely aggitated in the prelims,sweated on the way down and raced way too keenly during the race.He did none of this at Epsom and therefore to me he wasn't the same horse.Nor as at York did the bit slit through his mouth). B.Stoute and Moore were very confident going into the race or Moore wouldn't have ridden him and also there was,as stated in the Racing Post,an equal split in....

[guitarlegend32]

@HereWeGoAgain595 I have NEVER stated the Epsom form was reliable,that was my whole point regards Jan Vermeer.Merely that WF in my opinion is FAR better than saw at Ascot.Moore is a proffesional through and through and I have no doubt whatsoever he thought he was riding the best horse.Regards Swain,his BEST form was at Ascot regardless of other performances.He was rated at least 5lb better there by the handicapper than at any other venue.For e.g he was beaten 1.5 lengths in the Coronation....

[joeyjoseph16]

He got a 142 timeform rating for this race. 4th highest ever.

[guitarlegend32]

...having the choice.WF never settled at all in the KG and looked knackered and sweaty compared to the horse who powered home at Epsom.One final though on litteral form : Harbinger,Cape Blanco and Duncan(on Hardwicke form) are better than STS because they beat Youmzain further!!!!Obviously not.

[guitarlegend32]

...then Duncan(second to Harbinger at RA)would have won this years KG by 7 lengths and is a better horse than STS who could only beat Youmzain 2 lengths (though effortlessly) in last years Arc.Harbinger also would have won this years Derby(carrying 9st 7lb) by 20 lengths beating the course record by 4.5 seconds.Do no take results/form too litterally.WF's connections are baffled by his display and admitted they were very confident going into the race,Moore wouldn't have ridden him else when....

[guitarlegend32]

@HereWeGoAgain595 Apologies on Kris Kin.BUT you are saying then that CB would have absolutely destroyed the track record at Epsom.If WF and CB ran to form why did WF beat Jan Vermeer 12 lengths at Epsom yet CB only beat him 2.5 lengths in the Irish Derby?At York the bit fell through WF's mouth and was virtually unsteerable.You are assuming also that Harbinger will win the Arc in 'Sea Bird' fashion because Youmzain will not be out of the first 5 at Longchamp.Also if it ran totally to form....

[guitarlegend32]

@HereWeGoAgain595 'the race went completely to form' your words.If you were right then Harbinger was intitled to win by 11 lengths and you must have made a fortune.  Last years Arc STS,Conduit,Dar re me etc = strong yet Youmzain got beat 14 or so lengths.You think he ran to form because he ran pound for pound on his last run,mate.

[guitarlegend32]

@HereWeGoAgain595 FACT.Swain was rated 131 and 133 for his two KG victories by the British handicapper yet ran to a best of 126 when winning the ICS against Alborada.He evidently saved his best for Ascot.The track certainly suits some horses namely Brown Jack,Fujiama Crest,Yeats as stayers.Mark of Esteem ran his best race there beating Bosra Sham,not producing that form elsewhere though still excellent.Dahlia also won back to back King Georges.I just am sceptical of Harbinger elsewhere.

[guitarlegend32]

....winner to run in the King George?Sharastani,he got stuffed also but came back to run a superb race in the '86 Arc.Won't be remotely surprised if WF stayed in training as a 4yo(though Abdullah doesn't keep many top 3yo's in training).What did Stoute call him?'A big baby'.Just hindsight but I think Moore gave him a more strenuos race than required hence missing the Irish Derby.Write him off at your peril.

[jnmklo9]

Best win since Grundy beat Bustino

[spencerachung]

he has action like sea bird...awesome

[torotio]

please,don't retire him after arc de triomphe..i need horse like this...workforce...where are you?another bluff horse who win epsom derby...only galileo and sea the star was great horse from english derby in the last year.

[museobsessed17]

I was watching the race at home and by god, what a race.

It's not about Workforce misfiring, yesterday was all about Harby. The turn of foot he produced was, in my honest opinion, better than Sea The Stars's. The was he powered clear of top-class horses in their own right and to gallop on relentlessly to the line... in a course record as well... Wow.

[guitarlegend32]

@museobsessed17 He was mighty immpressive no doubt,but on the basis of one performance comparisons to the Great STS should be kept at a bare minimum.Harbinger has only ran in 1 group 1 in his life let alone 6 in 6 months.Youmzain to me is still a great price e/w for the Arc at 25/1.He won't run before and I seriously doubt Harbinger will run in it anyway.I'm positive(and so is Stoute and Moore)Workforce is better than this,he was always too keen and has to settle better.The last Stoute Derby...

[Bukattingi1]

This race has lost a lot of it's lustre in recent years, and this wasn't much of a field. Harbinger was impressive enough but I remain to be convinced.

[GBeret83]

Harbinger's going to be a bigggggggggg favorite to win the Arc. Fame and Glory, on form, may have the best shot to beat him. But he'd have to do something similar to what he did in the Coronation Cup. Follow his pace horse, then go first, and hope that he has enough to hold off Harbinger. If Byword can get 12 furlongs, he may be a factor. And although he looked bad at the Curragh, I think Cutlass Bay could be a factor in the Arc. He run's Longchamp extremely well. JMO.

[uhegbu]

The most impressive I have ever seen in the history of this race that dates back to 1951.

[GBeret83]

@uhegbu, I agree. It's by far the most impressive King George win I've seen in my lifetime. And I'm nearly 50 yrs. old now.

[ABC321I]

Hail King Harbinger!

[kristyan11]

At 2.00 it looks like Cape Blanco has just got the better of Workforce, and the jockey must have been thinking..."hey I might win...", but by 2.08 he is thinking "hey what the hell is that on my left...that horse has a rocket up his ass.."

[kristyan11]

Cape Blanco was 3 lengths clear of the rest, he now has wins over JV, MT, and WF, I guess that arguably makes him the best 12F 3yo. Funny that AOB didnt run him in the Derby.. I guess people will still say that Workforce is better than CB, but thats twice CB has beaten him..

[kristyan11]

Wow, I didn't see that coming. But maybe I should have, :)

Given that Harbinger was caring an extr 12 pounds and won by that distance, his handicap will get huge.

I had of looked at Harbinger's last race nore closely, I would have spotted that he beat all horses apart from Duncan (who rallied at the end by ) 10 lengths too.

[GBeret83]

@horseracingfan, The problem right now with Fame and Glory is the old saying, "out of sight, out of mind." But don't believe for one minute that Fame and Glory can't run with Harbinger. Except for maybe at Ascot. Fame and Glory has dispatched much more Group 1 competition than has Harbinger in his career. Once Fame and Glory comes back and win's another big race, he'll be the "now" horse for that moment then. IMO.

[GBeret83]

If you watch the replay of this race closely. Olivier Peslier never touched Harbinger with the stick once. After he swung Harbinger outside of Workforce, and then started pushing away, Harbinger put the race to bed in about 4 strides. Very impressive. But I have a feeling that Harbinger won't run every racetrack as well as he run's Ascot. He could find the soft ground at Longchamp difficult running in the Arc, IMO. He obviously loves fast ground.

[HereWeGoAgain595]

sea the stars would've been left for dead by that horse

[MrJackbarnz]

Harbinger turn of foot is awesome, and just keeps going, and going!!!

Workforce no match ! What's next for Harbinger? Anyone wanna race!!

I told u Madhu Workforce was gonna lose.!!

[GBeret83]

@MrJackbarnz, I'd say Harbinger will get a little break after his King George triumph today. I'm thinking maybe the Group 2 Prix Foy in September would possibly make for a very good Arc prep race for Harbinger. Spanish Moon beat Vision D'Etat in the 09' Prix Foy. Vision D' Etat went on to the Arc, but Spanish Moon did not.

[danylson10]

NO VOLUME



[GBeret83]

Applause to John Gosden. Because Dar Re Mi would've made absolutely no difference in this race whatsoever today. Maybe Gosden smelled this coming. Hence, the sudden stone bruise theory to save his fine race-mare some embarrassment? Because the track announcer got it spot on. All the horses behind Harbinger today. An Irish Derby winner, a Hong Kong Vase winner, a multiple-Arc runner-up, an English Derby winner, and a Group 2,3, and listed stakes winner were made to look very ordinary today.

[turbo581764]

Harbinger!!!!! So Fantastic!!!!!