@alexhaverman.... "we shun covenant breakers to maintain or own spiritual sanctity"... what does this have to do with the unity of humanity? You've gone way off track.
When will we learn to stop worshipping books and words and prophets, and recognise the actual nature of the world and of the biosphere as one Tree of Life, and the common descent of all humanity from a small band of people who lived in Africa... as a scientific fact with, if one cares to look, no lack of spiritual salience.
This world is one family. Everyone is tested by God in this. The beauty in your eyes. Our ancestors are within us. Be grateful. Thr manifestation of God, these gifts are sustained despite sacrifice, crucifixion, imprisonment, to be blamed are yet innocent. Humble for this is the gift of a great comfort which will always be among our children Be grateful. Unity is real.
Mrs. Amsalem is the daughter of a Baha'i Covenant Breaker or dissident. He entire family was shunned in the early 20th century for disobeying Abdul'Baha (her Uncle). She may be a blood relative, but all Baha'i are required to shun her. It's nice to see the Baha'i faith one of the fastest growing religions in the world!
@sirach Briefly, and please understand these ideas are my own: the 'accepting' is acknowledging His absolute Authority, which by itself is nonsensical without earnest effort to obey. In this age we're blessed with authoritative autographic documents, including His Will and Testament, which establishes explicitly the succession of authority, which her father vehemently and maliciously violated. We can't tell directly from the video that she herself rejects that, tho certain facts are suggestive.
@sirach In my humble understanding, and please understand that this is paraphrasing, but the twin prime religious duties are first to recognize God's Manifestation and second to *strive* to obey. The first, even worded as to "accept Baha'u'llah" is a recognition of authority, and it is nonsensical to accept that and not treat it as such by the earnest and continuous effort to obey. In this age we're blessed with an abundance of explicit Revelation from His Own Pen and that of His amanuensis ...
The UHJ isn't afraid of anything, but the father of this woman was a malicious pride-ful covenant breaker who threatened the tranquil Baha'i transition of leadership coveteously-and we must renounce this self centered evil for running counter to the unity of the faith ordained in the plan, therefore-we shun covenant breakers to maintain or own spiritual sanctity, which is as childish as refusing to consume poison.
Edd Mitar sorry I dont know the correct spelling of his last name He is in his 80s living here in Alberta Canada from what I have been told he is the last direct dependent for Baha'u'llah good too know he is not the last.
[ Israel ], the country, created 60 years ago as a Jewish state, is deeply opposed to any form of missionary activity. Anyone wishing to convert has to go abroad. Bahai spokesman Douglas Moore is "not aware" of any Israeli Bahais.
Doesn't that include obeying Abdu'l-Baha, which her ancestor refused to do. Muhammad Ali could not abide that the eldest was the heir. If he had submitted to Abdu'l-Baha, he would have been the Center after Him.
When Abdu'l-Baha passed away, did Muhammad Ali follow Shoghi Effendi, or did any of his children?
Shoghi Effendi told the Persian Baha'is to move out of Israel and go to Iran. So why are they still there, if they are so obedient?
Doesn't that include obeying Abdu'l-Baha, which her ancestor refused to do. Muhammad Ali could not abide that the eldest was the heir. If he had submitted to Abdu'l-Baha, he would have been the Center after Him.
When Abdu'l-Baha passed away, did Muhammad Ali follow Shoghi Effendi, or did any of his children?
Shoghi Effendi told the Persian Baha'is to move out of Israel and go to Iran. So why are they still there, if they are so obedient?
@Vids4daJ It is up to the Universal House of Justice who say who is and who is not a Baha'i in the country of Israel. The descendants of Muhammad Ali are not considered to be Baha'is no matter where they live.
@Vids4daj ARE YOU A MAN OR A MOUSE? Your excuse for blocking cameronmoj from posting further comments may be that he was not civil. But others have put much more insulting comments than he did, yet you didn't block them. In reality, you banned him because you only want enemies of the Baha'i Faith to post comments without any challenge from anyone who has a bit of knowledge. There was nothing uncivil about what he said. He simply defended a Manifestation of God. But you couldn't handle it.
Hey guys, let's take a moment to reflect. It's not necessary to agree on everything. If we don't agree, that's fine. We can just offer our opinion, read the opinion of the other person, and be done with it. Incidentally, I like potato chips.
@Vids4daJ Truly. And I often enjoy my baked potato with cheese and sour cream. And l do not neglect the butter, but use it generously. How do you enjoy your baked potato?
@rhapsodist9 ...And the only true topping for the baked potato is cottage cheese with chives. The baked potato is not for enjoyment. it exists to satisfy scriptural requirements for authorised and sanctified nourishment of the approved type. :-)
@Vids4daJ I agree, this is the truly authentic topping for the baked potato.
As a wise man said, if we are lovers of the light we accept it in whatever lamp it may shine. In such wise, I am a lover of the potato. And I accept it under whatever toppings it may come!
@rhapsodist9 That's true. however, two wise men said, "You like potato and I like potato, You like tomato and I like tomato. Potato, potato, Tomato, tomato, Let's call the whole thing off." (George and Ira Gershwin)
@Vids4daJ My original comments were non-confrontational. I was simply defending Baha'u'llah. You are the ones who started fighting with me. So you cool it first, then I will too.
@cameronmoj Hey dude, no worries k? It takes two to tango. But if we let go, we don't have our dance partner and can dance solo. And dancing solo nobody is gonna step on your toes. Incidentally, don't you find it interesting that my favorite flamenco musician toured with the name "Camaron de las islas"? It means Shrimp of the islands. And yet he was one of the most famous flamenco artists of all time...
@Vids4daJ I fail to see what is "ad hominem" and "invective" about my words. I am simply defending a Divine and legitimate Manifestation of God through logical argument from unfair attack from yourself and your friends sk9utube and TheDecoder77. This is a public forum. I am not a guest in your home. And yes, anyone who uses indecent language to attack any Prophet of God must be told to watch their mouth. You are the ones not being civil.
sk9utube Do not question the actions of a Manifestation of God. Baha'u'llah, being a Manifestation of God, was perfect. His actions were perfect. Therefore He would have given equal attention to all of His wives and children. There was no Lesbian affair between Baha'u'llah's wives. There was next to no lesbian activities in those days in an ultra-conservative Iran. Please watch your mouth when you are addressing a Manifestation of God. If you cannot learn to be decent, stop posting comments.
@cameronmoj - You are the one who will be blocked from posting comments if you don't learn to be more civil. These comments are for discussion, not ad hominem, invective and taunting. You are a guest in my home, so don't tell my other guests to watch their mouth". I accept this is a hot-button issue, but I'm asking you to cool it.
@cameronmoj You're a weirdo. There is nothing wrong with questioning God as part of any loving relationship. Oh wait! Bahaullah teaches that God is "unknowable"... I feel sorry for any of you who believe this to be true! You have been fooled out of the GREATEST relationship of your life! Why would our loving Father not want to know to me or you - but speaks only to a POLYGAMOUS man having sex in his mansion, between writing his arrogant biographies? Does THAT sound like God? Maybe Satan.
@Liffet35 We are God's own loving creation and loving Him, talking to Him, 'questioning' Him - is what makes us human and NOT ROBOTIC such as your retarded self! But if you knew this, u wouldn't waste your time WORSHIPPING Bahaullah, who calls himself "GOD"!! In the words of Abdul-Baha: "Further than this (Bahaullah), man has no other point for concentration. He is God." (Book Reference: "Star of the West") Wow - I never knew God was such a Ladies Man..
@Liffet35 Understandable. But what does it mean? The Baha'i writings say we are created to know God and to love him. If we didn't have the capacity to know Him, it wouldn't make sense to create us for that purpose... but scientists still don't understand how the brain works. How can we fully understand God if we don't fully understand our own selves? Feel free to respond, I'm not going to argue against your point. Your point is as valid as any of mine.
@rhapsodist9 "How can we fully understand God?" We will never fully understand His greatness. Our minds are finite; whereas, God is infinite. However, we were created in a way that we may grow together in closeness with God (if we so choose, of course). We don't need to fully understand the complexities of our brains - some things are just God's domain. However, we were created so that God can feel love. He receives His greatest joy when we CHOOSE to love Him.
@Liffet35 I agree with you. Because we are all created in God's image, we are all to a greater or lesser extent, reflections of God on earth. Like mirrors, we reflect the light of God's love. By loving God, accepting his love, and directing it to the mirrors of the hearts of each person we meet, we all illuminate the world even more. In doing so, we increase His greatest joy all the more.
@cameronmoj "Ultra-conservative" simply means things were well-hidden in those days. Whatever your take on homosexuality, it's been documented that such practices took place for 1000s of years in every culture. Bahaullah was a rumoured secret homo, himself. In fact, he does not condemn sodomy nor addresses it. And don't give me what his son or UHOJ thinks about the matter, because no one cares. There are SO many contradictions between father and son, it's laughable!
@cameronmoj And I (as well as anyone else here), can address your manifestation of polygamy and blasphemy, anyway we want to, thank u very much. You PROUDLY BOAST IN BOLDED TEXT your own grandiose beliefs that Bahaullah is 'perfect' and is 'Jesus Christ' returned. Do u not think for a second that you have OFFENDED 4 BILLION Christians & Muslims, robot?
@cameronmoj I have to call bullshit. Of course the Muslims will never publicly admit to having a society of lesbians. No society that has cloistered little harems where women can't go publcly among men and have to all share 1 husband are going to be always sexually content with real dick especially when men treat them like shit.
@cameronmoj First of all GFYS. Your pathhetic apologetics for Baha'u'llah's personally life is deplorable. Deal with the fact that your religious founder did not walk his talk and the offspring and all descendents of 2 of his auxiliary wives turned out rotten as a consequence (dyke or not). Usually when Bahais are confronted with this fact they at least defend themself with the fact that Abdu'l-Baha (Baha'u'llah's son was loyally monogamous) but you can't seem to STFU.
@Liffet35 cont'd There are several places in the Bible where Jesus refers to Himself as the Son Of Man, whereas, to the best of my knowledge, there are only a couple of places where He says He is the Son of God. Baha'is believe in Jesus as the Son of God. But we do not take it literally like you do. Baha'u'llah is the Glory of God, Muhammad is the Friend of God, and Jesus is the Son of God. The term "Son of God" is nothing more than a Divinely ordained Title; not to be taken literally.
@cameronmoj@cameronmoj And I suppose the Crucifixation is also 'not to be taken literally'? Funny: Your BOAST to everyone in BOLD TEXT that "OF COURSE BAHAULLAH IS JESUS!" is pretty literal, indeed. Lovely, how you deem what I shouldnt take as literal concerning Christ, yet you LITERALLY hang on to every word Mirza utters as Gospel.
@cameronmoj BTW, who deemed Mirza the 'GLORY' of God? That's SOME title for a polygamous man who decreed bahais to change their moldy furniture every 19 yrs (as written in Aqdas). Let's not forget that adulterers are forced to PAY the House of Justice BIG BUCK$ for getting caught! (So THAT'S how they built that SHRINE in Haifa!) Jesus' blood redeems the sinner & costs $0.00 - But Mirza wants money for your sins while he bangs his 3 wives & a rumoured mistress. How is this dude "Glorious" again?
Yes, Baha'u'llah IS the fulfilment of several prophecies (just as Jesus was the fulfillment of the second coming of Moses). Baha'u'llah is not exalted as God's greatest Manifestation. All manifestations are of equal rank. It is His message that is the most important message which has ever been revealed to man. This does not suggest He is superior to other Manifestations. It suggests that the world today desperately needs a healing message more than ever before. So please don't twist facts.
@cameronmoj No one's twisting shit! You speak with a deceiving tongue: One minute you say Bahaullah is 'equal' to all other prophets, then from the other side of your mouth you exhalt his message as "the most IMPORTANT MESSAGE EVERRRR..."
PLEASE, I BEG OF YOU! Tell us WHAT is this "most important message which has EVER been revealed to man"??? I NEED to hear this. WAIT! Let me go pop a bag of popcorn..............
Baha'is believe in all Divinely ordained Religions of the past. We also believe that the laws of all previous religions are no longer applicable to today's world. And yes, that includes Christianity. We believe that Baha'i teachings apply to today's world. But when the next true Manifestation of God appears (no sooner than another 1000 years), Baha'i law will also be obsolete. Every Manifestation declares the laws of the previous religion obsolete. Baha'is are not unique in this belief.
@cameronmoj There goes that forked tongue again. "Bahais believe in all ordained religions" - OF COURSE you do, silly. Your 'beautiful writings' (barf) are plagerized works from every Holy Book known to man! And how the hell is 'love your neighbor as yourself' not applicable today? God is UNCHANGING and so are His teachings. God is NOT fashionable like your stupid new-age cult. Your laws are already obselete. It's a secretive VIP Members only club. *Very Ignorant People*
@Liffet35 You are right to be outraged. Abdu'l-Baha said that if a person calls himself a Baha'i his entire life, but does not live according to the teachings in service to humanity, he is not a Baha'i. God is indeed unchanging and your anger is justified. So let's look at it from a different perspective? Abdu'l-Baha also says that if a man never hears of Baha'u'llah, but lives a life in service to humanity, he is indeed already a Baha'i. This is not so secretive or exclusive.
@rhapsodist9 As always, the presentation of Bahaism sounds so nice; but, I am married to a Bahai - & there r meetings which are forbidden to me. Personally, don't care what goes on -though I have a pretty good idea it's talks about 'recruitment' & 'funds for the cause'. I'm also bothered that Jews are forbidden to convert unless they move out of Isreal (?) Why is such a universal religion fronting 'God's greatest message' being fervently kept from Jews? Are they not worthy of salvation?
@Liffet35 Anybody living in Israel (Jews, Christians, Muslims) can become a Baha'i if they choose to. There are Baha'i communities there. Israelis can ask individuals questions, contact the Baha'i World Centre, and access Baha'i publications through their libraries, the internet, and I imagine bookstores too. There is no restriction on becoming a Baha'i.
@Liffet35 Now I finally get to address you. Firstly, let me ask you this: Did you go to Baha'i firesides because you were sincerely interested to find out about the Baha'i Faith, or did you go with the intention of finding information to use against Baha'is? Naughty naughty. Yes, Baha'u'llah ABSOLUTELY IS the second coming of Jesus. "Christianity is no longer credible for this age" is a bad way which you have chosen to phrase this particular issue.
@cameronmoj Whatever. I MARRIED A BAHAI. No one was more excited about this new faith than me! Family tried repeatedly to warn of its cultish ways. Still, I attended a fireside, CERTAIN that I would be viewed as an 'equal', no matter my background. Once I brought up Jesus in a comparable way to Mirza, I was swiftly TOLD that Jesus' teachings were "no longer credible for this age" and that I should convert. Bahaism is a numbers game & the goal IS to convert everyone! There is no unity.
@Liffet35 What you were told is contrary to their own teachings. If they knew what what was good for they'd STFU and validate your Faith and encourage you to study Jesus's message. I was raised in a Bahai American community and it took me awhile for me to shake the hoodwinked sense that "Baha'u'llah" is the latest gratest, one shoe fits all manifestation of God for Everyone that everyone must bow to and will be in trouble if they don't.
@sk9utube I would have a problem too if someone told me that there's trouble for somebody if they don't accept Baha'u'llah... but the shortcomings individual people are not evidence of fault. And while I agree Baha'u'llah isn't a one shoe fits all manifestation, I also am not so sure he's a shoe...
@Liffet35 Please understand you have my deepest sympathies. Baha'u'llah Himself lauds Christ as holding a station higher than any living man can imagine. So greatly he edifies Christ!
I live in Russia now, but before I lived all 26 years of my life in America. My parents are Baha'i. I am Baha'i. But it was in fact the Bible that confirmed my Faith in Baha'u'llah. The Gospels are beautiful and I read them every day.
@rhapsodist9 Thank you for your deepest sympathies (??) but this is not a funeral. Bahaullah is famous duality in his writings. I have read where he holds Christ at a higher station than the other prophets - But he does not say Christ is higher than HIMSELF! In other books, Bahaullah goes further to refer to himself as God! My deepest condolences to you, rhapsodist9, as you seem like a kind person; but the way you chose to interpret the Bible is blasphemous and not correct at all.
@Liffet35 Thank you, I'm glad you think I come across as kind. Paul states in Corinthians and other letters that we should approach the Bible with spiritual eyes and saying that the flesh will not profit us in discerning spiritual truths. I hope that in your endeavors you strive to follow the exhortations of Paul's message. He pleaded with his fellow believers for unity and to focus on the qualities of the spirit and to help others to accomplish it too. I hope you strive for the same.
@sk9tube I have already answered your previous comment. Please refrain from talking nonsense. Most importantly, don't sink to the level of TheDecoder77.
@cameronmoj. The disparity of attention among children and wives is a valid criticism of polygamous families. Multiple wives must share the same penis, and lesbian experiences are a very plausible condoned alternative outlet. That's not nonsense. Or do want to say that the Oh might Maniffestition of God for this Day and age had 3 dicks as proof of his Divinity?
@sk9utube The BEST reply to date!! One must have lust in his heart to take on more than one life partner at the same time. Truly deviates from God's original plan that has been perverted thru the ages! Once they (bahais) truly medtitate on this, they will realize that Mirza *self-professed Glory Of God* was a horny megalomanic. You cannot serve God and God's plan for the world while servicing 3 women. Sorry. He may have been an author - but that's it.
Decoder77 If you are a church-going Christian, then you should learn not to be such a hypocrite. If you are truly pious (which I seriously doubt you are), you should learn to respect people's beliefs. You cannot just attack people's Faith and the Prophet Whom they believe in, in foul, vile and ignorant language, just because you don't share the same belief.
As to your claim that Baha'u'llah was exalted above Jesus, please put your money where your foul mouth is and produce exact quotes from the Baha'i writings, quoting the name of the book and page number, where such claims are made. The rest of your comments are pure filth and ignorance and not worth responding to. They are not based on fact. They are just figments of your sick mind.
Abdu'l-Baha always shared His house and all of His few earthly possessions with the poor. Ever since He declared His mission, Baha'u'llah spent His time guiding and teaching people and writing several Holy Books and numerous Tablets from His prisons. So He did not just "bang" His three wives as you so tastelessly and disrespectfully put it. His exile and imprisonment was BECAUSE of the Persian and Ottoman kings. So how was he supposed to have mingled with them?
He only spent the last few years of His life in that mansion. He lived there partly because He had a large family to take care of. Even so, the inside of the mansion was sparse and had nothing expensive in it. It only had the most basic furniture. After Baha'u'llah's passing, His Son Abdu'l-Baha didn't even live in the mansion. Abdu'l-Baha's unfaithful brothers, including Mirza Muhammad Ali lvied there. Abdu'l-Baha lived in a humble house, not far from the mansion.
It is a recorded fact that Baha'u'llah did offer to perform a miracle for the Muslim clergy, but they refused. Baha'u'llah was not rich. Whenever people who supported Him sent him expensive gifts, He ALWAYS refused to accept them; because as a Manifestation of God, He was detached from worldly things. He was a prisoner for forty years where He lived in filth and disease-ridden prisons for most of that time. The mansion which you mentioned is not exactly "ocean front" so don't twist facts.
Decoder77 I have a number of close friends who are Christians. You, however, are the classic sort of fanatical Christian who puts people off from being religious in the western world. Your idiotic and vile comments are not worth responding to. But I will respond because you are attacking a Manifestation of God whom I love and live for. You have not learnt to respect others' beliefs. Instead you resort to disrespectful and narrow-minded comments about a Prophet whom others believe in.
Come to think of it: The choices of ass this man had...sigh.. Wonder if Bahaullah played eeny-meeny-miny-moe before bed every night? Lucky bastard! Between writing best-selling auto-biographies and shaking hands with kings, he has to come up for air in the sac! Hugh Hefner & Playboy Mansion - STEP ASIDE! Mirza & Bahji Mansion filled with T&A is where its at! Stay Tuned for his reality series: The Prophet's Girls Next Door. No wonder Aqdas verse mentions changing your mattress every 19 years.
Your satirical criticisms are a little over the top and funny, but I think he stuck with only 3 wives and no other wives. 1 wifeis enough. 2 a litlte more than enough to get the bicuriosity going between them. 3 I suppose is encouraging the other 2 to be down and dirty carpet munchers.
Liffet35 Yes Jesus was nailed to the cross. But Baha'u'llah suffered too, first in the worst prison in Tehran, then in disease-ridden prisons and cities throughout the Ottoman Empire for the rest of His life. He did offer to perform a miracle in front of the Muslim clergy. But He asked them to accept him as a Prophet if the miracle was performed successfully. The Muslim clergy declined the offer. So don't blame Baha'u'llah.
@cameronmoj Is it true that he "offered" to perform a magic trick for Muslim clergy but they said no thanks? He performed ZERO miracles during the course of his rich polygamous life! Yet he's exalted above God's humble Son who died at 33? He wrote poetry from his ocean-front mansion, banged his 3 wives, mingled with kings, & died in his own bed. So what if he went to jail for a bit? Perhaps disease afflicted his grandiose mind in jail & he came out believing he's greater than God's Only Son.
Liffet35 GET YOUR FACTS RIGHT AND READ WHAT I HAVE WRITTEN PROPERLY BEFORE YOU ATTACK MY WORDS. When did I exalt Christ above Baha'u'llah? I specifically said all Prophets are equal. I never said Baha'u'llah's mission was greater than Jesus. Stop putting words in my mouth. Every Prophet tailors His mission according to the needs of the day. They All have great missions. Please put your money where your mouth is and tell me exactly which of Baha'u'llah's teachings in Aqdas are questionable.
You are a Bahai, cameronmoj, are u not? I don't need to study your posts - I already know what Bahais believe in terms of Jesus Christ because I have been TOLD TO MY FACE BY BAHAIS at a fireside. Here are just a few of those unfounded beliefs: Bahaullah is the second coming of Christ, Christianity is no longer credible for this age (??), Bahaullah is exalted as God's greatest manifestation and the fulfillment of all prophecies/religions, Jesus is the Son of Man NOT the Son of God...etc. etc.
Vids4daJ As to where the women came from if polygomy was widespread, there are many countries throughout the world today where polygomy is very common. Where do all the women in those countries come from?
@Vids4daJ You are misrepresenting facts. It is true that some poor people in 19th century Persia could not even afford one wife. But Polygomy WAS VERY widespread; not just among the elite, but with anyone who could afford it - and plenty could afford it back then. In any case, Baha'u'llah was from an elite family. If He had married only one wife, He would have stood out like a sore thumb. He had to do what He did to blend in, as any Prophet would have had to do.
@cameronmoj LMAO: "If He had married only one wife, He would have stood out... He had to do what He did to blend in, as any Prophet would have had to do"
BULLSHIT! Then why didn't Jesus sacrifice lambs to God (as was Jewish custom)? Why did RICH Buddha GIVE IT ALL UP to enlighten his soul? But Mirza "the Greatest of All Manifestations" couldn't part with his riches, or CHALLENGE the useless practices of his society, like Jesus & Buddha.
In Islam marrying 4 women is not compulsory, I know. But it WAS practiced by almost every man in Iran in those days. ALL Prophets have had to blend into society. If you read the writings of Baha'u'llah, you will see that He did give numerous guidances for people to change. All Prophets are equal. There is no such thing as "no ordinary Prophet". And yes, Jesus had to blend in and live in accordance with many of the customs of His day. So please don't just dismiss my comments as "rubbish".
@cameronmoj wrote: "In Islam marrying 4 women is not compulsory, I know. But it WAS practiced by almost every man in Iran in those days."
Nonsense. Polygyny in 19th century Iran mainly existed in well-off families. If you were poor, you could hardly even support one wife. Besides, where would all the women come from if nearly every married man had four wives.
ARE YOU NOT UNDERSTANDING THAT YOU'VE EXALTED THIS MAN TO GREATNESS - YET HE WAS NOT BRAVE ENOUGH TO LIVE AS HE PREACHED?? And you exalt him above Christ even! Perhaps you view this poet/nobleman's mission as important - however - Do you honestly believe that Mirza's mission was greater than Jesus'? Mirza performed no miracle & many of his teachings in aqdas are questionable. Jesus, a humble man, was nailed to a cross for us all! He's also God's Only Son! How can you risk offending your God?
@sk9utube Mirza Muhammad Ali's behaviour was related to his character only. He was given plenty of love, support and unlimited tolerance by both Baha'u'llah and Abdu'l-Baha. He was never shown any disfavour. The reason Baha'u'llah married more than one wife is because a Prophet of God has to fit in with the customs of the times He lives in, in order to conceal His full greatness. This is not the will of the Prophet Himself. It is the will of God. Every Prophet had to do that.
Rubbish. In Islam, marrying 4 women is NOT obligatory! If Mirza was the intended prophet of the times - AND ESPECIALLY if he proclaims to be Christ re-incarnated - then he can be no ordinary prophet! Just as Jesus was no ordinary prophet!!
Jesus did not sacrifice lambs for God as was Jewish custom. Infact, Jesus followed religious customs that were respectful to God - and was BRAVE enough to tell His people to CHANGE the ones that mattered not to God. Jesus LIVED what he preached!
In My Opinion. The schism that almost happened within the Bahai Faith has a lot to do with Baha'u'llah being polygomous. Think about it? Mirza Muhammad Ali was the son of one of Baha'u'llah's less favored wives. Of course the he is going to grow up being a jealous asshole.
@sk9utube Yeah, you're probably right.. It sucks being the bastard son of the wife he didn't enjoy boinking as much as Abdul's. It's no wonder Mirza M. Ali became a jealous, greedy and power-hungry son who wanted a piece of world domination.
Well, you know what they say: The apple doesn't fall from the father.. *cough*.. er, 'tree'
1:40 The taboo darkness of this interview with a granddaughter of such a notorious enemy of Bahais reminds me of a scene from Brahm Stoker's Dracula where Keanu Reeves interviews Dracula for the first time. /watch?v=tMXIR-DCNAw&
I note that you have decided to retract your former essay as it has disappeared.
If you are to offer a rewrite, hopefully it will not contain any more unsubstantiated claims, especially the old world tradition that a descendant of a sinner inherits their ancestor's sins.
Only some, not all. And you're not in a position to pass judgment on what kind of Baha'i I am, quite frankly. I already told you the paper will be given its necessary revisions in the near future. We get the point. Now please do something more worthwhile with your time than engage in argumentum ad hominem with me.
I have compiled a very short essay regarding the truth of Nigar Bahai Amsalem and her family history. I am sure you will appreciate the fact that it is well-referenced, since you were looking for such a source. You can locate the paper at: nigarbahaiamsalem D0T w3bs D0T c0m Replace the 3 with an e. I'm sure you understand this; I think there's a censor on this. Don't forget the h t t p At the beginning. Happy researching!
LordAdib (a.k.a. Adib Masumian, an 18 year old Baha'i of Austin, TX) provides a link to his web page which in truth has scant references to the hate speech and opinions he shares there. His web page comes across as slander and vilification with little proof. So much for the Baha'i ideals of peace between the various sects and religions.
Your paper mentions a court case decades ago when the great grand-daughter was probably only a young teen. Are you saying she was personally party to that case?
Where are the court documents? Please supply us with references to those, the name of the court , case number, etc. so the serious researcher can verify the so-called "trumped-up" charges.
No, I'm not saying she was party to that case. That bit of history pertains to her family, not necessarily herself. I do not have the references to those documents; I'm sure they are kept in Israel somewhere. If I ever learn of them, they will of course be included in the paper.
As I said - and this goes for your other, more recent comment as well - this paper will undergo some serious refining in the near future, as it is much needed, so let's wait until then for any further criticisms? Thanks
Regarding your inquiry about the phrase "divorced from the institution of Guardianship" I highly recommend an article written by Brent Poirier on this very subject. To find it, Google this phrase:
"Shoghi Effendi makes this pronouncement in his great expository letter"
And click the second result (it should be indented).
If you have a discrepancy with his analysis, I would advise you to make a comment on that blog, as that would be his area of expertise and certainly not mine.
Sorry, it would be the second result *without* quotes. If you include the quotation marks in your search at the front and end, then the article will be the first result.
'Abdu'l-Bahá declared: Whatsoever they decide is of God.22 He further wrote: Whatever will be its decision, by majority vote, shall be the real truth, inasmuch as that House is under the protection, unerring guidance and care of the one true Lord.
Nevertheless, although a complete and exact understanding of the infallibility of the House of Justice may be beyond the reach of our minds, by examining the authoritative Writings of the Faith, it may still be possible to gain some sense of the general features of this infallibility.
Infallibility has been conferred on the body of the Universal House of Justice, not its individual members: Now the members of the House of Justice have not, individually, essential infallibility; but the body of the House of Justice is under the protection and unerring guidance of God: this is called conferred infallibility.15
Infallibility has been conferred on the body of the Universal House of Justice, not its individual members: Now the members of the House of Justice have not, individually, essential infallibility; but the body of the House of Justice is under the protection and unerring guidance of God: this is called conferred infallibility.15
House of Justice shall decide unanimously, or by a majority, upon any question not mentioned in the Book, that decision and command will be guarded from mistake.14
the Manifestations of God, possessed essential infallibility.'Abdu'l-Bahá affirmed that the Universal House of Justice possesses acquired infallibility:
He further points out that "he is not, like the Prophet, omnicient at will," that his "infallibility covers interpretation of the revealed word and its application," and that he is also "infallible in the protection of the Faith." Furthermore, in one of the letters, the following guideline is set forth
Shoghi Effendi was asked several times during his ministry to define the sphere of his operation and his infallibility. The replies he gave and which were written on his behalf are most illuminating. He explains that he is not an infallible authority on subjects such as economics and science, nor does he go into technical matters since his infallibility is confined to "matters which are related strictly to the Cause
vids The Guardian being the appointed interpreter of the Teachings, it is his responsibility to state what matters which, affacting the interests of the Faith, demand on the part of the believers complete and unqualified obedience to his instructions."
It is not for individual believers to limit the sphere of the Guardian's authority, or to judge when they have to obey the Guardian and when they are free to reject his judgment. Such an attitude would evidently lead to confusion and to schism.
VIDS THAT COMMENT DOES NOT DESERVE AN ANSWER! From this question I have made my conclusion that you have quiete a journey spiritually. I don't believe that I can make a difference in your way of thinking. This is something you must achieve on your own! May GOd help you find your answers! GOD BLESS!
"When the Master says the Local and National Assemblies are the `Voice of truth', He means here that they must be obeyed, not that they are infallible."
(From a letter written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi to an individual believer, November 25, 1947)
Before I comment further let's have a clarification from you. Do you or do you not think Shoghi Effendi and/or the House ARE God? I know it sounds like a silly question, but please humour me. I'm not trying to trap you. I just want to know how you understand 'Abdu'l-Baha's statement.
whoso disputeth with him hath disputed with God; whoso denieth him hath denied God; whoso disbelieveth in him hath disbelieved in God; whoso deviateth, separateth himself, and turneth aside from him hath in truth deviated, separated himself and turned aside from God."
1 of 2 the Will and Testament quoted above, `Abdu'l-Bahá goes on to say of the Guardian and the Universal House of Justice: "Whatsoever they decide is of God. Whoso obeyeth him not, neither obeyeth them, hath not obeyed God; whoso rebelleth against him and against them hath rebelled against God; whoso opposeth him hath opposed God; whoso contendeth with them hath contended with God;
almazb your remarks tell me you are not a true Baha'i as Baha'is we do not offend any ones religion. Just because you HAVE RELATIVES that are Baha'i and you are a Persian does not mean you know the faith well. Study more research more especially about the beginning of the faith. I have 100's of books that I read and research by different people not just one opinion. Peace to you.
Obviously you drank the kook-aid also. I can read this and I understand that your view is your view. Great. BUT PLEASE don't ever tell me that I am offeneding a religion. Christians and Muslims have killed colonised and hurt people in the name of G-d.
Jesus said I'll be back another time with another face...there you go Baha'ullah is your Jesus. Now you are exactly doing what Jewish people did to Jesus when he appeared and announced his message. You are ruining your both worlds....
Good of you to post here, friend. Pay no mind to these lunatic Haifan organization fascists. These people mean everyone harm and they and their utopian dream of new world order will be dealt with in the appropriate way.
Does this woman (if she is who she says she is) support her grandfather's claim that he should have been the leader of the faith instead of his brother?
That is the most important question. And no mention is made of it.
Iran should follow Malaysia's example as a Muslim country that leaves the Bahais alone - then there'll be peace. They've clearly claim themselves separate from Islam anyway - esp. they know that they have teachings that muslims consider deviating from islam. No matter, Muslim or non-Muslim, it gives no 1 the right to harm others. As in Islam, there is no compulsion in religion & that only God will deal with matters of faith - as He will judge our actions & intentions in the Day of Judgment.
The Bahais should be left alone. Besides, they've never caused as much threat to any society as compared to those extreme Christians and Muslims who wish to evangelise people and make them to be one of them by spreading hatred about other religions and harming them in any way.
May i make a suggestion to all that would like to comment?
As Baha'is we are not allowed to make contact or speak to Covenant breakers. IN THIS WAY will we find out what the real Baha'i Faith is.
BECAUSE only the Baha'i Faith will survive in the end to make a New World Order.
SO if true Baha'is and CB's FOLLOWED THE RULES to not talk to CB's then the truth will come out anyway. But we all know CB's don't follow the rules do they?
I considered removing this post because it was so offensive, but I have decided to leave it as an example of rudeness and arrogance on the part of a self-proclaimed Baha'i.
Pues si Nigar Bahai desea en verdad reintegrarse sinceramente a la comunidad bahá'í haría bien en primero reconocer públicamente la deplorable conducta con que sus abuelos y sus padres, conducta con la que mancillaron el buen nombre de la Fe así como todo el dolor personal que estos causaron tanto al Maestro como al Guardián. Después de hacer eso seguramente ella podrá dirigirse a la Casa Universal de Justicia para pedir humildemente su admisión en la comunidad bahá'í.
Hi Badivillar. It sounds like you're repeating the unsupported assertions of others in this comments list -- that Nigar has inherited the alleged sins of her parents and grandparents. Life doesn't work like that. People are not held responsible for the things their parents and grandparents did.
No creo que nadie herede los pecados de sus padres. Cada persona es responsable de sus propios actos y no de las acciones de otros a menos que se apoye las acciones de otros.
Usted posiblemente ignore que Nigar Bahai apoyó con denodado esfuerzo cada una de las acciones de Qamar Bahai (su madre) para reunir en un solo frente a todos los oponentes al Guardian -esto cuando Nigar era todavía una mujer joven pero ya casada y con una familia propia, así que ella no era una niña influenciada por otros. Ella debe reconocer primero el error e indecencia se su anterior proceder antes de esperar una reintegración a la comunidad bahá'í.
Pero además de reconocer el carácter desacertado de sus propias acciones en apoyo a su madre Qamar Bahai, Nigar debe llegar a darse cuenta -debe tomar plena consciencia (y no culparse a si misma) sobre el terrible daño que hicieron sus padres y abuelos contra 'Abdu'l-Bahá y el Guardián.
Cuando todavía era una mujer joven Nigar Bahai apoyó con todas sus energias a su madre en sus estratagemas para crear un frente contra el Vali-yi Amru'llah, y ahora se presenta a si misma como una dulce anciana inocente que no entiende las razones por las que ella y sus parientes más cercanos están fuera de la comunidad bahá'í...
That's what you assert, but it think evidence is required. Also, we are talking about Nigar Bahai Amsalem, not Mírzá Muhammad-`Alí, aren't we? What you're talking about happened over one hundred years ago. My great grandfather was a Victorian English entrepreneur but I'm hardly liable for the global injustices he might have been part of.
It is no ones place to decide whether someone is a Bahai or not. Only the Universal House of Justice can decide this. To be a bahai we must be firm in the Covenant. Its not enough to believe just in Bahá'u'lláh and forget about Abdu'l-Bahái, Shoghi Effendi and Universal House of Justice. If one is a Bahai then the Will and Testament of Bahá'u'lláh(Kitáb-i-Ahd)is binding and should be read fully. What the Universal House of Justice decides we must obey.
What we are saying is that to be a Bahai is to work loyally with these divenly-ordained institutions and to respect their authority, for the order of Baha'u'llah is not just an end in itself... it continues with the UHJ... what you are searching for only the House can answer, the UHJ tells us no Bahai's unless part of the administrative order should reside in Haifa... then we obey
There are growing numbers of Baha'is who are not members of any Baha'i community. Negar is one such Baha'i. The House contributes to the process by removing people from membership - Sen McGlinn, Alison Marshall, Michael McKenny. Negar doesn't appear to be a member of any Baha'i community, so she's not being disobedient. She's just quietly living her Baha'i life. I suggest that you get used to the existence of unaffiliated Baha'is.
To be a Bahai also means to work for a new social order.The Bahai should not lead a life of contemplation and self-engrossment in seclusion far from the problems of society.
Baha'u'llah referring to Mirza Muhammad-Ali in a clear & unequivocal language affirmed: "He, verily is but one of My servants. Should he for a moment pass out from under the shadow of the Cause, he surely shall be brought to naught." Furthermore, in a no less emphatic language, He, again in connection with Mirza Muhammad-Ali had stated: "By God, the True One! Were We, for a single instant, to withhold from him the outpourings of Our Cause, he would whither and fall upon the dust."
Abdu'l-Baha (reffered to as Abbas in the video) Himself had, moreover, testified: "There is no doubt that in a thousand passages in the sacred writings of Baha'u'llah the breakers of the covenant have been execrated." - Shoghi Effendi God passes by
It was this same Mirza Muhammad Ali who as attested by Abdu'l-Baha in His Will, had with circumspection and guile, conspired to take His life, an intention indicated by the allusions made in a letter written by Shu'a'llah (son of mirza Muhammad ali). - Shoghi Effendi God passes by
I assume you're referring to Shu`a`u'llah, and to page 249 of GPB (Wilmette, 1944). Again, this stuff happened nearly a century ago. People are not directly responsible for what their great grandparents might have done.
Although this woman has the blood of Baha'u'llah running in her veins it doesn't make her a follower. It is the covenant of this Faith that binds us and differentiates us from other religions. If the UHJ says we should stay away then we follow because its our law. I am happy to see her character joyful and calm and sweet about everything for Baha'u'llah has a place for her in the Abha Kingdom...
Nigar doesn't claim that her ancestry makes her a Bahai. She simply makes a statement of belief. Please point to anything by the House that says Baha'is should shun Nigar bahai Amsalem. So far no-one has been able to do so, although that hasn't stopped the baseless assertions from flying about.
"One of the distinguishing characterisitics of this most great Dispensation is that the kin of such as have recognized and embraced the truth of this Revelation and have, in the glory of His name, the Sovereign Lord, quaffed the choice, sealed wine from the chalice of the love of the One True God, will upon their death, if they are outwardly non-believers, be graciously invested with divine forgiveness and partake of the ocean of His Mercy."
"This bounty, however, will be vouchsafed only to such souls as have inflicted no harm upon Him Who is the Sovereign Truth nor upon His loved ones..." - Baha'u'llah
please refer or ask the Universal house of justice of any questions, they are there for our guide and refuge when there is doubt in our minds. it is pointless to argue (although i havent seen the comments below)... a true Bahai would listen to the UHJ and obey their guidance
O God! Refresh and gladden my spirit. Purify my heart. Illumine my powers. I lay all my affairs in Thy hand. Thou art my Guide and Refuge. I will no longer be full of anxiety, nor will I let trouble harass me. I will not dwell on the unpleasant things of life. O God! Thou art more friend to me than I am to myself. I dedicate myself to Thee, O Lord. (`Abdu'l-Bahá, Bahá'í Prayers, p. 152)
In the Bahai Faith divine guidance continues in an objective way, with an institution to which Baha'u'llah has promised His guidance and upon which He has conferred supreme authority... Universal House of Justice... The community order of of Baha'u'llah is thus of a theocratic nature: God Himself rules His people
So was she declared a "covenant breaker" too like most of the family of hard-ss 'Adbu'l-Baha?
BookOfFlaws 4 weeks ago
@alexhaverman.... "we shun covenant breakers to maintain or own spiritual sanctity"... what does this have to do with the unity of humanity? You've gone way off track.
When will we learn to stop worshipping books and words and prophets, and recognise the actual nature of the world and of the biosphere as one Tree of Life, and the common descent of all humanity from a small band of people who lived in Africa... as a scientific fact with, if one cares to look, no lack of spiritual salience.
JasperElvenSky 2 months ago
This world is one family. Everyone is tested by God in this. The beauty in your eyes. Our ancestors are within us. Be grateful. Thr manifestation of God, these gifts are sustained despite sacrifice, crucifixion, imprisonment, to be blamed are yet innocent. Humble for this is the gift of a great comfort which will always be among our children Be grateful. Unity is real.
wheresmynurse 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Mrs. Amsalem is the daughter of a Baha'i Covenant Breaker or dissident. He entire family was shunned in the early 20th century for disobeying Abdul'Baha (her Uncle). She may be a blood relative, but all Baha'i are required to shun her. It's nice to see the Baha'i faith one of the fastest growing religions in the world!
FT86TT 10 months ago
@sirach Briefly, and please understand these ideas are my own: the 'accepting' is acknowledging His absolute Authority, which by itself is nonsensical without earnest effort to obey. In this age we're blessed with authoritative autographic documents, including His Will and Testament, which establishes explicitly the succession of authority, which her father vehemently and maliciously violated. We can't tell directly from the video that she herself rejects that, tho certain facts are suggestive.
ChaunseyGardner 10 months ago
@sirach In my humble understanding, and please understand that this is paraphrasing, but the twin prime religious duties are first to recognize God's Manifestation and second to *strive* to obey. The first, even worded as to "accept Baha'u'llah" is a recognition of authority, and it is nonsensical to accept that and not treat it as such by the earnest and continuous effort to obey. In this age we're blessed with an abundance of explicit Revelation from His Own Pen and that of His amanuensis ...
ChaunseyGardner 10 months ago
The UHJ isn't afraid of anything, but the father of this woman was a malicious pride-ful covenant breaker who threatened the tranquil Baha'i transition of leadership coveteously-and we must renounce this self centered evil for running counter to the unity of the faith ordained in the plan, therefore-we shun covenant breakers to maintain or own spiritual sanctity, which is as childish as refusing to consume poison.
alexhaverman113 10 months ago
This is very interesting indeed!
Keallei 11 months ago
I am an ex-Baha'i atheist and can't believe I used to waste my team with these foolish religious debates.
MillerGenuineCraft 1 year ago
Edd Mitar sorry I dont know the correct spelling of his last name He is in his 80s living here in Alberta Canada from what I have been told he is the last direct dependent for Baha'u'llah good too know he is not the last.
DragonRoLo 1 year ago
Just in case :
[ Israel ], the country, created 60 years ago as a Jewish state, is deeply opposed to any form of missionary activity. Anyone wishing to convert has to go abroad. Bahai spokesman Douglas Moore is "not aware" of any Israeli Bahais.
Source: AFP
shahrzadmo 1 year ago
Doing "exactly what Baha'u'llah told her to do"?
Doesn't that include obeying Abdu'l-Baha, which her ancestor refused to do. Muhammad Ali could not abide that the eldest was the heir. If he had submitted to Abdu'l-Baha, he would have been the Center after Him.
When Abdu'l-Baha passed away, did Muhammad Ali follow Shoghi Effendi, or did any of his children?
Shoghi Effendi told the Persian Baha'is to move out of Israel and go to Iran. So why are they still there, if they are so obedient?
JahwehMan 1 year ago
Doing "exactly what Baha'u'llah told her to do"
Doesn't that include obeying Abdu'l-Baha, which her ancestor refused to do. Muhammad Ali could not abide that the eldest was the heir. If he had submitted to Abdu'l-Baha, he would have been the Center after Him.
When Abdu'l-Baha passed away, did Muhammad Ali follow Shoghi Effendi, or did any of his children?
Shoghi Effendi told the Persian Baha'is to move out of Israel and go to Iran. So why are they still there, if they are so obedient?
JahwehMan 1 year ago
Of course there are descendants of Baha'u'llah. Most are in and around Akka. They are not Baha'is.
TheLadeb11 1 year ago
@TheLadeb11 In the video, Nigar states that she is a Baha'i. Who are you to contradict her?
Vids4daJ 1 year ago
@Vids4daJ It is up to the Universal House of Justice who say who is and who is not a Baha'i in the country of Israel. The descendants of Muhammad Ali are not considered to be Baha'is no matter where they live.
TheLadeb11 1 year ago
@Vids4daJ One more question. Are you going to block me just like you blocked cameronmoj, so that all discussion on this video will be one-sided?
concordesm2010 1 year ago
@Vids4daj ARE YOU A MAN OR A MOUSE? Your excuse for blocking cameronmoj from posting further comments may be that he was not civil. But others have put much more insulting comments than he did, yet you didn't block them. In reality, you banned him because you only want enemies of the Baha'i Faith to post comments without any challenge from anyone who has a bit of knowledge. There was nothing uncivil about what he said. He simply defended a Manifestation of God. But you couldn't handle it.
concordesm2010 1 year ago
@concordesm2010 Your reply uses ad hominem. Please stick to rational argument and chat or I will remove your posts.
Vids4daJ 1 year ago
Hey guys, let's take a moment to reflect. It's not necessary to agree on everything. If we don't agree, that's fine. We can just offer our opinion, read the opinion of the other person, and be done with it. Incidentally, I like potato chips.
rhapsodist9 1 year ago
Potato chips are snack food. They're not proper food. The only true potato is the baked potato. :-)
Vids4daJ 1 year ago
@Vids4daJ Truly. And I often enjoy my baked potato with cheese and sour cream. And l do not neglect the butter, but use it generously. How do you enjoy your baked potato?
rhapsodist9 1 year ago
@rhapsodist9 ...And the only true topping for the baked potato is cottage cheese with chives. The baked potato is not for enjoyment. it exists to satisfy scriptural requirements for authorised and sanctified nourishment of the approved type. :-)
Vids4daJ 1 year ago
@Vids4daJ I agree, this is the truly authentic topping for the baked potato.
As a wise man said, if we are lovers of the light we accept it in whatever lamp it may shine. In such wise, I am a lover of the potato. And I accept it under whatever toppings it may come!
rhapsodist9 1 year ago
@rhapsodist9 That's true. however, two wise men said, "You like potato and I like potato, You like tomato and I like tomato. Potato, potato, Tomato, tomato, Let's call the whole thing off." (George and Ira Gershwin)
Vids4daJ 1 year ago
@Vids4daJ Amen! I'm hungry....
rhapsodist9 1 year ago
Comment removed
rhapsodist9 1 year ago
@Vids4daJ My original comments were non-confrontational. I was simply defending Baha'u'llah. You are the ones who started fighting with me. So you cool it first, then I will too.
cameronmoj 1 year ago
@cameronmoj Hey dude, no worries k? It takes two to tango. But if we let go, we don't have our dance partner and can dance solo. And dancing solo nobody is gonna step on your toes. Incidentally, don't you find it interesting that my favorite flamenco musician toured with the name "Camaron de las islas"? It means Shrimp of the islands. And yet he was one of the most famous flamenco artists of all time...
rhapsodist9 1 year ago
@Vids4daJ I fail to see what is "ad hominem" and "invective" about my words. I am simply defending a Divine and legitimate Manifestation of God through logical argument from unfair attack from yourself and your friends sk9utube and TheDecoder77. This is a public forum. I am not a guest in your home. And yes, anyone who uses indecent language to attack any Prophet of God must be told to watch their mouth. You are the ones not being civil.
cameronmoj 1 year ago
sk9utube Do not question the actions of a Manifestation of God. Baha'u'llah, being a Manifestation of God, was perfect. His actions were perfect. Therefore He would have given equal attention to all of His wives and children. There was no Lesbian affair between Baha'u'llah's wives. There was next to no lesbian activities in those days in an ultra-conservative Iran. Please watch your mouth when you are addressing a Manifestation of God. If you cannot learn to be decent, stop posting comments.
cameronmoj 1 year ago
@cameronmoj - You are the one who will be blocked from posting comments if you don't learn to be more civil. These comments are for discussion, not ad hominem, invective and taunting. You are a guest in my home, so don't tell my other guests to watch their mouth". I accept this is a hot-button issue, but I'm asking you to cool it.
Vids4daJ 1 year ago
@cameronmoj You're a weirdo. There is nothing wrong with questioning God as part of any loving relationship. Oh wait! Bahaullah teaches that God is "unknowable"... I feel sorry for any of you who believe this to be true! You have been fooled out of the GREATEST relationship of your life! Why would our loving Father not want to know to me or you - but speaks only to a POLYGAMOUS man having sex in his mansion, between writing his arrogant biographies? Does THAT sound like God? Maybe Satan.
Liffet35 1 year ago
@Liffet35 We are God's own loving creation and loving Him, talking to Him, 'questioning' Him - is what makes us human and NOT ROBOTIC such as your retarded self! But if you knew this, u wouldn't waste your time WORSHIPPING Bahaullah, who calls himself "GOD"!! In the words of Abdul-Baha: "Further than this (Bahaullah), man has no other point for concentration. He is God." (Book Reference: "Star of the West") Wow - I never knew God was such a Ladies Man..
Liffet35 1 year ago
@Liffet35 Understandable. But what does it mean? The Baha'i writings say we are created to know God and to love him. If we didn't have the capacity to know Him, it wouldn't make sense to create us for that purpose... but scientists still don't understand how the brain works. How can we fully understand God if we don't fully understand our own selves? Feel free to respond, I'm not going to argue against your point. Your point is as valid as any of mine.
rhapsodist9 1 year ago
@rhapsodist9 "How can we fully understand God?" We will never fully understand His greatness. Our minds are finite; whereas, God is infinite. However, we were created in a way that we may grow together in closeness with God (if we so choose, of course). We don't need to fully understand the complexities of our brains - some things are just God's domain. However, we were created so that God can feel love. He receives His greatest joy when we CHOOSE to love Him.
Liffet35 1 year ago
@Liffet35 I agree with you. Because we are all created in God's image, we are all to a greater or lesser extent, reflections of God on earth. Like mirrors, we reflect the light of God's love. By loving God, accepting his love, and directing it to the mirrors of the hearts of each person we meet, we all illuminate the world even more. In doing so, we increase His greatest joy all the more.
rhapsodist9 1 year ago
@cameronmoj "Ultra-conservative" simply means things were well-hidden in those days. Whatever your take on homosexuality, it's been documented that such practices took place for 1000s of years in every culture. Bahaullah was a rumoured secret homo, himself. In fact, he does not condemn sodomy nor addresses it. And don't give me what his son or UHOJ thinks about the matter, because no one cares. There are SO many contradictions between father and son, it's laughable!
Liffet35 1 year ago
@cameronmoj And I (as well as anyone else here), can address your manifestation of polygamy and blasphemy, anyway we want to, thank u very much. You PROUDLY BOAST IN BOLDED TEXT your own grandiose beliefs that Bahaullah is 'perfect' and is 'Jesus Christ' returned. Do u not think for a second that you have OFFENDED 4 BILLION Christians & Muslims, robot?
Liffet35 1 year ago
@cameronmoj I have to call bullshit. Of course the Muslims will never publicly admit to having a society of lesbians. No society that has cloistered little harems where women can't go publcly among men and have to all share 1 husband are going to be always sexually content with real dick especially when men treat them like shit.
sk9utube 1 year ago
@cameronmoj First of all GFYS. Your pathhetic apologetics for Baha'u'llah's personally life is deplorable. Deal with the fact that your religious founder did not walk his talk and the offspring and all descendents of 2 of his auxiliary wives turned out rotten as a consequence (dyke or not). Usually when Bahais are confronted with this fact they at least defend themself with the fact that Abdu'l-Baha (Baha'u'llah's son was loyally monogamous) but you can't seem to STFU.
sk9utube 1 year ago
@Liffet35 cont'd There are several places in the Bible where Jesus refers to Himself as the Son Of Man, whereas, to the best of my knowledge, there are only a couple of places where He says He is the Son of God. Baha'is believe in Jesus as the Son of God. But we do not take it literally like you do. Baha'u'llah is the Glory of God, Muhammad is the Friend of God, and Jesus is the Son of God. The term "Son of God" is nothing more than a Divinely ordained Title; not to be taken literally.
cameronmoj 1 year ago
@cameronmoj @cameronmoj And I suppose the Crucifixation is also 'not to be taken literally'? Funny: Your BOAST to everyone in BOLD TEXT that "OF COURSE BAHAULLAH IS JESUS!" is pretty literal, indeed. Lovely, how you deem what I shouldnt take as literal concerning Christ, yet you LITERALLY hang on to every word Mirza utters as Gospel.
Liffet35 1 year ago
@cameronmoj BTW, who deemed Mirza the 'GLORY' of God? That's SOME title for a polygamous man who decreed bahais to change their moldy furniture every 19 yrs (as written in Aqdas). Let's not forget that adulterers are forced to PAY the House of Justice BIG BUCK$ for getting caught! (So THAT'S how they built that SHRINE in Haifa!) Jesus' blood redeems the sinner & costs $0.00 - But Mirza wants money for your sins while he bangs his 3 wives & a rumoured mistress. How is this dude "Glorious" again?
Liffet35 1 year ago
Yes, Baha'u'llah IS the fulfilment of several prophecies (just as Jesus was the fulfillment of the second coming of Moses). Baha'u'llah is not exalted as God's greatest Manifestation. All manifestations are of equal rank. It is His message that is the most important message which has ever been revealed to man. This does not suggest He is superior to other Manifestations. It suggests that the world today desperately needs a healing message more than ever before. So please don't twist facts.
cameronmoj 1 year ago
@cameronmoj No one's twisting shit! You speak with a deceiving tongue: One minute you say Bahaullah is 'equal' to all other prophets, then from the other side of your mouth you exhalt his message as "the most IMPORTANT MESSAGE EVERRRR..."
PLEASE, I BEG OF YOU! Tell us WHAT is this "most important message which has EVER been revealed to man"??? I NEED to hear this. WAIT! Let me go pop a bag of popcorn..............
Liffet35 1 year ago
Baha'is believe in all Divinely ordained Religions of the past. We also believe that the laws of all previous religions are no longer applicable to today's world. And yes, that includes Christianity. We believe that Baha'i teachings apply to today's world. But when the next true Manifestation of God appears (no sooner than another 1000 years), Baha'i law will also be obsolete. Every Manifestation declares the laws of the previous religion obsolete. Baha'is are not unique in this belief.
cameronmoj 1 year ago
@cameronmoj There goes that forked tongue again. "Bahais believe in all ordained religions" - OF COURSE you do, silly. Your 'beautiful writings' (barf) are plagerized works from every Holy Book known to man! And how the hell is 'love your neighbor as yourself' not applicable today? God is UNCHANGING and so are His teachings. God is NOT fashionable like your stupid new-age cult. Your laws are already obselete. It's a secretive VIP Members only club. *Very Ignorant People*
Liffet35 1 year ago
@Liffet35 You are right to be outraged. Abdu'l-Baha said that if a person calls himself a Baha'i his entire life, but does not live according to the teachings in service to humanity, he is not a Baha'i. God is indeed unchanging and your anger is justified. So let's look at it from a different perspective? Abdu'l-Baha also says that if a man never hears of Baha'u'llah, but lives a life in service to humanity, he is indeed already a Baha'i. This is not so secretive or exclusive.
rhapsodist9 1 year ago
@rhapsodist9 As always, the presentation of Bahaism sounds so nice; but, I am married to a Bahai - & there r meetings which are forbidden to me. Personally, don't care what goes on -though I have a pretty good idea it's talks about 'recruitment' & 'funds for the cause'. I'm also bothered that Jews are forbidden to convert unless they move out of Isreal (?) Why is such a universal religion fronting 'God's greatest message' being fervently kept from Jews? Are they not worthy of salvation?
Liffet35 1 year ago
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rhapsodist9 1 year ago
@Liffet35 Anybody living in Israel (Jews, Christians, Muslims) can become a Baha'i if they choose to. There are Baha'i communities there. Israelis can ask individuals questions, contact the Baha'i World Centre, and access Baha'i publications through their libraries, the internet, and I imagine bookstores too. There is no restriction on becoming a Baha'i.
rhapsodist9 1 year ago
@Liffet35 Now I finally get to address you. Firstly, let me ask you this: Did you go to Baha'i firesides because you were sincerely interested to find out about the Baha'i Faith, or did you go with the intention of finding information to use against Baha'is? Naughty naughty. Yes, Baha'u'llah ABSOLUTELY IS the second coming of Jesus. "Christianity is no longer credible for this age" is a bad way which you have chosen to phrase this particular issue.
cameronmoj 1 year ago
@cameronmoj Whatever. I MARRIED A BAHAI. No one was more excited about this new faith than me! Family tried repeatedly to warn of its cultish ways. Still, I attended a fireside, CERTAIN that I would be viewed as an 'equal', no matter my background. Once I brought up Jesus in a comparable way to Mirza, I was swiftly TOLD that Jesus' teachings were "no longer credible for this age" and that I should convert. Bahaism is a numbers game & the goal IS to convert everyone! There is no unity.
Liffet35 1 year ago
@Liffet35 What you were told is contrary to their own teachings. If they knew what what was good for they'd STFU and validate your Faith and encourage you to study Jesus's message. I was raised in a Bahai American community and it took me awhile for me to shake the hoodwinked sense that "Baha'u'llah" is the latest gratest, one shoe fits all manifestation of God for Everyone that everyone must bow to and will be in trouble if they don't.
sk9utube 1 year ago
@sk9utube I would have a problem too if someone told me that there's trouble for somebody if they don't accept Baha'u'llah... but the shortcomings individual people are not evidence of fault. And while I agree Baha'u'llah isn't a one shoe fits all manifestation, I also am not so sure he's a shoe...
rhapsodist9 1 year ago
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rhapsodist9 1 year ago
@Liffet35 Please understand you have my deepest sympathies. Baha'u'llah Himself lauds Christ as holding a station higher than any living man can imagine. So greatly he edifies Christ!
I live in Russia now, but before I lived all 26 years of my life in America. My parents are Baha'i. I am Baha'i. But it was in fact the Bible that confirmed my Faith in Baha'u'llah. The Gospels are beautiful and I read them every day.
rhapsodist9 1 year ago
@rhapsodist9 Thank you for your deepest sympathies (??) but this is not a funeral. Bahaullah is famous duality in his writings. I have read where he holds Christ at a higher station than the other prophets - But he does not say Christ is higher than HIMSELF! In other books, Bahaullah goes further to refer to himself as God! My deepest condolences to you, rhapsodist9, as you seem like a kind person; but the way you chose to interpret the Bible is blasphemous and not correct at all.
Liffet35 1 year ago
@Liffet35 Thank you, I'm glad you think I come across as kind. Paul states in Corinthians and other letters that we should approach the Bible with spiritual eyes and saying that the flesh will not profit us in discerning spiritual truths. I hope that in your endeavors you strive to follow the exhortations of Paul's message. He pleaded with his fellow believers for unity and to focus on the qualities of the spirit and to help others to accomplish it too. I hope you strive for the same.
rhapsodist9 1 year ago
@sk9tube I have already answered your previous comment. Please refrain from talking nonsense. Most importantly, don't sink to the level of TheDecoder77.
cameronmoj 1 year ago
@cameronmoj. The disparity of attention among children and wives is a valid criticism of polygamous families. Multiple wives must share the same penis, and lesbian experiences are a very plausible condoned alternative outlet. That's not nonsense. Or do want to say that the Oh might Maniffestition of God for this Day and age had 3 dicks as proof of his Divinity?
sk9utube 1 year ago
@sk9utube The BEST reply to date!! One must have lust in his heart to take on more than one life partner at the same time. Truly deviates from God's original plan that has been perverted thru the ages! Once they (bahais) truly medtitate on this, they will realize that Mirza *self-professed Glory Of God* was a horny megalomanic. You cannot serve God and God's plan for the world while servicing 3 women. Sorry. He may have been an author - but that's it.
Liffet35 1 year ago
Decoder77 If you are a church-going Christian, then you should learn not to be such a hypocrite. If you are truly pious (which I seriously doubt you are), you should learn to respect people's beliefs. You cannot just attack people's Faith and the Prophet Whom they believe in, in foul, vile and ignorant language, just because you don't share the same belief.
cameronmoj 1 year ago
As to your claim that Baha'u'llah was exalted above Jesus, please put your money where your foul mouth is and produce exact quotes from the Baha'i writings, quoting the name of the book and page number, where such claims are made. The rest of your comments are pure filth and ignorance and not worth responding to. They are not based on fact. They are just figments of your sick mind.
cameronmoj 1 year ago
Abdu'l-Baha always shared His house and all of His few earthly possessions with the poor. Ever since He declared His mission, Baha'u'llah spent His time guiding and teaching people and writing several Holy Books and numerous Tablets from His prisons. So He did not just "bang" His three wives as you so tastelessly and disrespectfully put it. His exile and imprisonment was BECAUSE of the Persian and Ottoman kings. So how was he supposed to have mingled with them?
cameronmoj 1 year ago
He only spent the last few years of His life in that mansion. He lived there partly because He had a large family to take care of. Even so, the inside of the mansion was sparse and had nothing expensive in it. It only had the most basic furniture. After Baha'u'llah's passing, His Son Abdu'l-Baha didn't even live in the mansion. Abdu'l-Baha's unfaithful brothers, including Mirza Muhammad Ali lvied there. Abdu'l-Baha lived in a humble house, not far from the mansion.
cameronmoj 1 year ago
It is a recorded fact that Baha'u'llah did offer to perform a miracle for the Muslim clergy, but they refused. Baha'u'llah was not rich. Whenever people who supported Him sent him expensive gifts, He ALWAYS refused to accept them; because as a Manifestation of God, He was detached from worldly things. He was a prisoner for forty years where He lived in filth and disease-ridden prisons for most of that time. The mansion which you mentioned is not exactly "ocean front" so don't twist facts.
cameronmoj 1 year ago
Decoder77 I have a number of close friends who are Christians. You, however, are the classic sort of fanatical Christian who puts people off from being religious in the western world. Your idiotic and vile comments are not worth responding to. But I will respond because you are attacking a Manifestation of God whom I love and live for. You have not learnt to respect others' beliefs. Instead you resort to disrespectful and narrow-minded comments about a Prophet whom others believe in.
cameronmoj 1 year ago
Liffet35 I will address your comments in a minute. Before I do, though, let me deal with this idiot Decoder77 first.
cameronmoj 1 year ago
Come to think of it: The choices of ass this man had...sigh.. Wonder if Bahaullah played eeny-meeny-miny-moe before bed every night? Lucky bastard! Between writing best-selling auto-biographies and shaking hands with kings, he has to come up for air in the sac! Hugh Hefner & Playboy Mansion - STEP ASIDE! Mirza & Bahji Mansion filled with T&A is where its at! Stay Tuned for his reality series: The Prophet's Girls Next Door. No wonder Aqdas verse mentions changing your mattress every 19 years.
TheDecoder77 1 year ago
Your satirical criticisms are a little over the top and funny, but I think he stuck with only 3 wives and no other wives. 1 wifeis enough. 2 a litlte more than enough to get the bicuriosity going between them. 3 I suppose is encouraging the other 2 to be down and dirty carpet munchers.
sk9utube 1 year ago
Liffet35 Yes Jesus was nailed to the cross. But Baha'u'llah suffered too, first in the worst prison in Tehran, then in disease-ridden prisons and cities throughout the Ottoman Empire for the rest of His life. He did offer to perform a miracle in front of the Muslim clergy. But He asked them to accept him as a Prophet if the miracle was performed successfully. The Muslim clergy declined the offer. So don't blame Baha'u'llah.
cameronmoj 1 year ago
@cameronmoj Is it true that he "offered" to perform a magic trick for Muslim clergy but they said no thanks? He performed ZERO miracles during the course of his rich polygamous life! Yet he's exalted above God's humble Son who died at 33? He wrote poetry from his ocean-front mansion, banged his 3 wives, mingled with kings, & died in his own bed. So what if he went to jail for a bit? Perhaps disease afflicted his grandiose mind in jail & he came out believing he's greater than God's Only Son.
TheDecoder77 1 year ago
Liffet35 GET YOUR FACTS RIGHT AND READ WHAT I HAVE WRITTEN PROPERLY BEFORE YOU ATTACK MY WORDS. When did I exalt Christ above Baha'u'llah? I specifically said all Prophets are equal. I never said Baha'u'llah's mission was greater than Jesus. Stop putting words in my mouth. Every Prophet tailors His mission according to the needs of the day. They All have great missions. Please put your money where your mouth is and tell me exactly which of Baha'u'llah's teachings in Aqdas are questionable.
cameronmoj 1 year ago
You are a Bahai, cameronmoj, are u not? I don't need to study your posts - I already know what Bahais believe in terms of Jesus Christ because I have been TOLD TO MY FACE BY BAHAIS at a fireside. Here are just a few of those unfounded beliefs: Bahaullah is the second coming of Christ, Christianity is no longer credible for this age (??), Bahaullah is exalted as God's greatest manifestation and the fulfillment of all prophecies/religions, Jesus is the Son of Man NOT the Son of God...etc. etc.
Liffet35 1 year ago 2
Vids4daJ As to where the women came from if polygomy was widespread, there are many countries throughout the world today where polygomy is very common. Where do all the women in those countries come from?
cameronmoj 1 year ago
@Vids4daJ You are misrepresenting facts. It is true that some poor people in 19th century Persia could not even afford one wife. But Polygomy WAS VERY widespread; not just among the elite, but with anyone who could afford it - and plenty could afford it back then. In any case, Baha'u'llah was from an elite family. If He had married only one wife, He would have stood out like a sore thumb. He had to do what He did to blend in, as any Prophet would have had to do.
cameronmoj 1 year ago
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@cameronmoj LMAO: "If He had married only one wife, He would have stood out... He had to do what He did to blend in, as any Prophet would have had to do"
BULLSHIT! Then why didn't Jesus sacrifice lambs to God (as was Jewish custom)? Why did RICH Buddha GIVE IT ALL UP to enlighten his soul? But Mirza "the Greatest of All Manifestations" couldn't part with his riches, or CHALLENGE the useless practices of his society, like Jesus & Buddha.
TheDecoder77 1 year ago
In Islam marrying 4 women is not compulsory, I know. But it WAS practiced by almost every man in Iran in those days. ALL Prophets have had to blend into society. If you read the writings of Baha'u'llah, you will see that He did give numerous guidances for people to change. All Prophets are equal. There is no such thing as "no ordinary Prophet". And yes, Jesus had to blend in and live in accordance with many of the customs of His day. So please don't just dismiss my comments as "rubbish".
cameronmoj 1 year ago
@cameronmoj wrote: "In Islam marrying 4 women is not compulsory, I know. But it WAS practiced by almost every man in Iran in those days."
Nonsense. Polygyny in 19th century Iran mainly existed in well-off families. If you were poor, you could hardly even support one wife. Besides, where would all the women come from if nearly every married man had four wives.
Vids4daJ 1 year ago
ARE YOU NOT UNDERSTANDING THAT YOU'VE EXALTED THIS MAN TO GREATNESS - YET HE WAS NOT BRAVE ENOUGH TO LIVE AS HE PREACHED?? And you exalt him above Christ even! Perhaps you view this poet/nobleman's mission as important - however - Do you honestly believe that Mirza's mission was greater than Jesus'? Mirza performed no miracle & many of his teachings in aqdas are questionable. Jesus, a humble man, was nailed to a cross for us all! He's also God's Only Son! How can you risk offending your God?
Liffet35 1 year ago
@sk9utube Mirza Muhammad Ali's behaviour was related to his character only. He was given plenty of love, support and unlimited tolerance by both Baha'u'llah and Abdu'l-Baha. He was never shown any disfavour. The reason Baha'u'llah married more than one wife is because a Prophet of God has to fit in with the customs of the times He lives in, in order to conceal His full greatness. This is not the will of the Prophet Himself. It is the will of God. Every Prophet had to do that.
cameronmoj 1 year ago
Rubbish. In Islam, marrying 4 women is NOT obligatory! If Mirza was the intended prophet of the times - AND ESPECIALLY if he proclaims to be Christ re-incarnated - then he can be no ordinary prophet! Just as Jesus was no ordinary prophet!!
Jesus did not sacrifice lambs for God as was Jewish custom. Infact, Jesus followed religious customs that were respectful to God - and was BRAVE enough to tell His people to CHANGE the ones that mattered not to God. Jesus LIVED what he preached!
Liffet35 1 year ago
so do baha'i's deny this woman is bahaullahs great granddaughter?
ishurgrl 2 years ago
So you are the grand daughter My shit for you
95sour 2 years ago
In My Opinion. The schism that almost happened within the Bahai Faith has a lot to do with Baha'u'llah being polygomous. Think about it? Mirza Muhammad Ali was the son of one of Baha'u'llah's less favored wives. Of course the he is going to grow up being a jealous asshole.
sk9utube 2 years ago 2
@sk9utube Yeah, you're probably right.. It sucks being the bastard son of the wife he didn't enjoy boinking as much as Abdul's. It's no wonder Mirza M. Ali became a jealous, greedy and power-hungry son who wanted a piece of world domination.
Well, you know what they say: The apple doesn't fall from the father.. *cough*.. er, 'tree'
TheDecoder77 1 year ago
1:40 The taboo darkness of this interview with a granddaughter of such a notorious enemy of Bahais reminds me of a scene from Brahm Stoker's Dracula where Keanu Reeves interviews Dracula for the first time. /watch?v=tMXIR-DCNAw&
sk9utube 2 years ago
I note that you have decided to retract your former essay as it has disappeared.
If you are to offer a rewrite, hopefully it will not contain any more unsubstantiated claims, especially the old world tradition that a descendant of a sinner inherits their ancestor's sins.
MsWONDERFULNESS 2 years ago
So, admitting you do not have references to some of your accusations, is a bit different than claiming you know and can prove something as truth.
In the court of public opinion, this is known as rumor, gossip, and slander.
Quite the Baha'i aren't you?
MsWONDERFULNESS 2 years ago
Only some, not all. And you're not in a position to pass judgment on what kind of Baha'i I am, quite frankly. I already told you the paper will be given its necessary revisions in the near future. We get the point. Now please do something more worthwhile with your time than engage in argumentum ad hominem with me.
LordAdib 2 years ago
LordAdib 2 years ago
LordAdib (a.k.a. Adib Masumian, an 18 year old Baha'i of Austin, TX) provides a link to his web page which in truth has scant references to the hate speech and opinions he shares there. His web page comes across as slander and vilification with little proof. So much for the Baha'i ideals of peace between the various sects and religions.
MsWONDERFULNESS 2 years ago
Little proof? Check the notes section of the essay once more, please.
Also note that I intend to refine that paper in the near future. Be on the lookout for it.
LordAdib 2 years ago
Your paper mentions a court case decades ago when the great grand-daughter was probably only a young teen. Are you saying she was personally party to that case?
Where are the court documents? Please supply us with references to those, the name of the court , case number, etc. so the serious researcher can verify the so-called "trumped-up" charges.
MsWONDERFULNESS 2 years ago
No, I'm not saying she was party to that case. That bit of history pertains to her family, not necessarily herself. I do not have the references to those documents; I'm sure they are kept in Israel somewhere. If I ever learn of them, they will of course be included in the paper.
As I said - and this goes for your other, more recent comment as well - this paper will undergo some serious refining in the near future, as it is much needed, so let's wait until then for any further criticisms? Thanks
LordAdib 2 years ago
More: Where are the facts/references to verify these statements in your paper:
"Nigar's past is replete with opposition to the Baha'i Faith..."
"She....[has] waged many campaigns against the Baha'i Faith over the years."
"Nigar herself has made various efforts to discredit the Bahá'ís and assert that she is the true representative of the Bahá'í Faith."
MsWONDERFULNESS 2 years ago
Regarding your inquiry about the phrase "divorced from the institution of Guardianship" I highly recommend an article written by Brent Poirier on this very subject. To find it, Google this phrase:
"Shoghi Effendi makes this pronouncement in his great expository letter"
And click the second result (it should be indented).
If you have a discrepancy with his analysis, I would advise you to make a comment on that blog, as that would be his area of expertise and certainly not mine.
LordAdib 2 years ago
Sorry, it would be the second result *without* quotes. If you include the quotation marks in your search at the front and end, then the article will be the first result.
LordAdib 2 years ago
But what's this lady's grandfather' name?
chiflamico 2 years ago
Mirza Muhammad Ali, also known to Baha'is as Naqiz-i-Akbar.
LordAdib 2 years ago
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you'd rather stop this...no one sees a point.muhammed(PBUH) said he is the last prophet and that's it.
amirosja 3 years ago
nono!
the last "messi" don't know how in english...
rafatchloe 3 years ago
'Abdu'l-Bahá, The Promulgation of Universal Peace, p. 455.
8. 'Abdu'l-Bahá, The Promulgation of Universal Peace, p. 455.
9. 'Abdu'l-Bahá, Some Answered Questions, p. 171.
10. 'Abdu'l-Bahá, Some Answered Questions, p. 171.
pinabarryscott1 3 years ago 2
all this information was taken from:
Tablets of Bahá'u'lláh, p. 68. Tablets of Bahá'u'lláh, p. 27.
Will and Testament of 'Abdu'l-Bahá, p. 14.
Will and Testament of 'Abdu'l-Bahá, p. 19.
Will and Testament of 'Abdu'l-Bahá, p. 11.
pinabarryscott1 3 years ago 2
'Abdu'l-Bahá declared: Whatsoever they decide is of God.22 He further wrote: Whatever will be its decision, by majority vote, shall be the real truth, inasmuch as that House is under the protection, unerring guidance and care of the one true Lord.
pinabarryscott1 3 years ago 2
Nevertheless, although a complete and exact understanding of the infallibility of the House of Justice may be beyond the reach of our minds, by examining the authoritative Writings of the Faith, it may still be possible to gain some sense of the general features of this infallibility.
pinabarryscott1 3 years ago
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Infallibility has been conferred on the body of the Universal House of Justice, not its individual members: Now the members of the House of Justice have not, individually, essential infallibility; but the body of the House of Justice is under the protection and unerring guidance of God: this is called conferred infallibility.15
pinabarryscott1 3 years ago 2
Infallibility has been conferred on the body of the Universal House of Justice, not its individual members: Now the members of the House of Justice have not, individually, essential infallibility; but the body of the House of Justice is under the protection and unerring guidance of God: this is called conferred infallibility.15
pinabarryscott1 3 years ago
House of Justice shall decide unanimously, or by a majority, upon any question not mentioned in the Book, that decision and command will be guarded from mistake.14
pinabarryscott1 3 years ago
the Manifestations of God, possessed essential infallibility.'Abdu'l-Bahá affirmed that the Universal House of Justice possesses acquired infallibility:
pinabarryscott1 3 years ago
According to 'Abdu'l-Bahá, infallibility is of two kinds: essential infallibility and acquired infallibility
pinabarryscott1 3 years ago
vids 2 of 3
He further points out that "he is not, like the Prophet, omnicient at will," that his "infallibility covers interpretation of the revealed word and its application," and that he is also "infallible in the protection of the Faith." Furthermore, in one of the letters, the following guideline is set forth
pinabarryscott1 3 years ago
vids 1 of 3
Shoghi Effendi was asked several times during his ministry to define the sphere of his operation and his infallibility. The replies he gave and which were written on his behalf are most illuminating. He explains that he is not an infallible authority on subjects such as economics and science, nor does he go into technical matters since his infallibility is confined to "matters which are related strictly to the Cause
pinabarryscott1 3 years ago
vids The Guardian being the appointed interpreter of the Teachings, it is his responsibility to state what matters which, affacting the interests of the Faith, demand on the part of the believers complete and unqualified obedience to his instructions."
pinabarryscott1 3 years ago
vids 3 of 3
It is not for individual believers to limit the sphere of the Guardian's authority, or to judge when they have to obey the Guardian and when they are free to reject his judgment. Such an attitude would evidently lead to confusion and to schism.
pinabarryscott1 3 years ago
VIDS THAT COMMENT DOES NOT DESERVE AN ANSWER! From this question I have made my conclusion that you have quiete a journey spiritually. I don't believe that I can make a difference in your way of thinking. This is something you must achieve on your own! May GOd help you find your answers! GOD BLESS!
pinabarryscott1 3 years ago
"When the Master says the Local and National Assemblies are the `Voice of truth', He means here that they must be obeyed, not that they are infallible."
(From a letter written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi to an individual believer, November 25, 1947)
(Multiple Authors: Lights of Guidance, Page: 481)
Vids4daJ 3 years ago
Before I comment further let's have a clarification from you. Do you or do you not think Shoghi Effendi and/or the House ARE God? I know it sounds like a silly question, but please humour me. I'm not trying to trap you. I just want to know how you understand 'Abdu'l-Baha's statement.
Vids4daJ 3 years ago
2 of 2
whoso disputeth with him hath disputed with God; whoso denieth him hath denied God; whoso disbelieveth in him hath disbelieved in God; whoso deviateth, separateth himself, and turneth aside from him hath in truth deviated, separated himself and turned aside from God."
pinabarryscott1 3 years ago
1 of 2 the Will and Testament quoted above, `Abdu'l-Bahá goes on to say of the Guardian and the Universal House of Justice: "Whatsoever they decide is of God. Whoso obeyeth him not, neither obeyeth them, hath not obeyed God; whoso rebelleth against him and against them hath rebelled against God; whoso opposeth him hath opposed God; whoso contendeth with them hath contended with God;
pinabarryscott1 3 years ago
Right Jesus never saved anyone. Please killing Jews in the name of a Jew. Go figure
AlmazB 3 years ago
almazb your remarks tell me you are not a true Baha'i as Baha'is we do not offend any ones religion. Just because you HAVE RELATIVES that are Baha'i and you are a Persian does not mean you know the faith well. Study more research more especially about the beginning of the faith. I have 100's of books that I read and research by different people not just one opinion. Peace to you.
pinabarryscott1 3 years ago
Obviously you drank the kook-aid also. I can read this and I understand that your view is your view. Great. BUT PLEASE don't ever tell me that I am offeneding a religion. Christians and Muslims have killed colonised and hurt people in the name of G-d.
AlmazB 3 years ago
Jesus said I'll be back another time with another face...there you go Baha'ullah is your Jesus. Now you are exactly doing what Jewish people did to Jesus when he appeared and announced his message. You are ruining your both worlds....
nickolas177 3 years ago
hey! this is my grandaunt!
xXxJulyGxXx 3 years ago
Ba ha!
SteveMarshall 3 years ago
ba ha ?
xXxJulyGxXx 3 years ago
Good of you to post here, friend. Pay no mind to these lunatic Haifan organization fascists. These people mean everyone harm and they and their utopian dream of new world order will be dealt with in the appropriate way.
wahidazal 3 years ago
Does this woman (if she is who she says she is) support her grandfather's claim that he should have been the leader of the faith instead of his brother?
That is the most important question. And no mention is made of it.
majnun99 3 years ago
Iran should follow Malaysia's example as a Muslim country that leaves the Bahais alone - then there'll be peace. They've clearly claim themselves separate from Islam anyway - esp. they know that they have teachings that muslims consider deviating from islam. No matter, Muslim or non-Muslim, it gives no 1 the right to harm others. As in Islam, there is no compulsion in religion & that only God will deal with matters of faith - as He will judge our actions & intentions in the Day of Judgment.
mjay22 3 years ago
The Bahais should be left alone. Besides, they've never caused as much threat to any society as compared to those extreme Christians and Muslims who wish to evangelise people and make them to be one of them by spreading hatred about other religions and harming them in any way.
mjay22 3 years ago
I totally agree
AlmazB 3 years ago
May i make a suggestion to all that would like to comment?
As Baha'is we are not allowed to make contact or speak to Covenant breakers. IN THIS WAY will we find out what the real Baha'i Faith is.
BECAUSE only the Baha'i Faith will survive in the end to make a New World Order.
SO if true Baha'is and CB's FOLLOWED THE RULES to not talk to CB's then the truth will come out anyway. But we all know CB's don't follow the rules do they?
You Covenant Breakers will become extinct.
sourpatch2007 3 years ago
I considered removing this post because it was so offensive, but I have decided to leave it as an example of rudeness and arrogance on the part of a self-proclaimed Baha'i.
Vids4daJ 3 years ago
Does it matter?
sourpatch2007 3 years ago
Pues si Nigar Bahai desea en verdad reintegrarse sinceramente a la comunidad bahá'í haría bien en primero reconocer públicamente la deplorable conducta con que sus abuelos y sus padres, conducta con la que mancillaron el buen nombre de la Fe así como todo el dolor personal que estos causaron tanto al Maestro como al Guardián. Después de hacer eso seguramente ella podrá dirigirse a la Casa Universal de Justicia para pedir humildemente su admisión en la comunidad bahá'í.
badivillar 3 years ago
Hi Badivillar. It sounds like you're repeating the unsupported assertions of others in this comments list -- that Nigar has inherited the alleged sins of her parents and grandparents. Life doesn't work like that. People are not held responsible for the things their parents and grandparents did.
Vids4daJ 3 years ago
No creo que nadie herede los pecados de sus padres. Cada persona es responsable de sus propios actos y no de las acciones de otros a menos que se apoye las acciones de otros.
badivillar 3 years ago
Usted posiblemente ignore que Nigar Bahai apoyó con denodado esfuerzo cada una de las acciones de Qamar Bahai (su madre) para reunir en un solo frente a todos los oponentes al Guardian -esto cuando Nigar era todavía una mujer joven pero ya casada y con una familia propia, así que ella no era una niña influenciada por otros. Ella debe reconocer primero el error e indecencia se su anterior proceder antes de esperar una reintegración a la comunidad bahá'í.
badivillar 3 years ago
Pero además de reconocer el carácter desacertado de sus propias acciones en apoyo a su madre Qamar Bahai, Nigar debe llegar a darse cuenta -debe tomar plena consciencia (y no culparse a si misma) sobre el terrible daño que hicieron sus padres y abuelos contra 'Abdu'l-Bahá y el Guardián.
Un paso difícil pero necesario.
badivillar 3 years ago
Cuando todavía era una mujer joven Nigar Bahai apoyó con todas sus energias a su madre en sus estratagemas para crear un frente contra el Vali-yi Amru'llah, y ahora se presenta a si misma como una dulce anciana inocente que no entiende las razones por las que ella y sus parientes más cercanos están fuera de la comunidad bahá'í...
badivillar 3 years ago
That's what you assert, but it think evidence is required. Also, we are talking about Nigar Bahai Amsalem, not Mírzá Muhammad-`Alí, aren't we? What you're talking about happened over one hundred years ago. My great grandfather was a Victorian English entrepreneur but I'm hardly liable for the global injustices he might have been part of.
Vids4daJ 4 years ago
It is no ones place to decide whether someone is a Bahai or not. Only the Universal House of Justice can decide this. To be a bahai we must be firm in the Covenant. Its not enough to believe just in Bahá'u'lláh and forget about Abdu'l-Bahái, Shoghi Effendi and Universal House of Justice. If one is a Bahai then the Will and Testament of Bahá'u'lláh(Kitáb-i-Ahd)is binding and should be read fully. What the Universal House of Justice decides we must obey.
orangedevil99 4 years ago
No-one is suggesting otherwise.
You say, "What the Universal House of Justice decides we must obey." What, precisely, has the House decided, that is pertinent to this discussion?
Vids4daJ 4 years ago
What we are saying is that to be a Bahai is to work loyally with these divenly-ordained institutions and to respect their authority, for the order of Baha'u'llah is not just an end in itself... it continues with the UHJ... what you are searching for only the House can answer, the UHJ tells us no Bahai's unless part of the administrative order should reside in Haifa... then we obey
omie267 4 years ago 2
There are growing numbers of Baha'is who are not members of any Baha'i community. Negar is one such Baha'i. The House contributes to the process by removing people from membership - Sen McGlinn, Alison Marshall, Michael McKenny. Negar doesn't appear to be a member of any Baha'i community, so she's not being disobedient. She's just quietly living her Baha'i life. I suggest that you get used to the existence of unaffiliated Baha'is.
Vids4daJ 4 years ago
To be a Bahai also means to work for a new social order.The Bahai should not lead a life of contemplation and self-engrossment in seclusion far from the problems of society.
omie267 4 years ago
Baha'u'llah referring to Mirza Muhammad-Ali in a clear & unequivocal language affirmed: "He, verily is but one of My servants. Should he for a moment pass out from under the shadow of the Cause, he surely shall be brought to naught." Furthermore, in a no less emphatic language, He, again in connection with Mirza Muhammad-Ali had stated: "By God, the True One! Were We, for a single instant, to withhold from him the outpourings of Our Cause, he would whither and fall upon the dust."
omie267 4 years ago
Abdu'l-Baha (reffered to as Abbas in the video) Himself had, moreover, testified: "There is no doubt that in a thousand passages in the sacred writings of Baha'u'llah the breakers of the covenant have been execrated." - Shoghi Effendi God passes by
omie267 4 years ago
And your point is?
Vids4daJ 4 years ago
It was this same Mirza Muhammad Ali who as attested by Abdu'l-Baha in His Will, had with circumspection and guile, conspired to take His life, an intention indicated by the allusions made in a letter written by Shu'a'llah (son of mirza Muhammad ali). - Shoghi Effendi God passes by
omie267 4 years ago
I assume you're referring to Shu`a`u'llah, and to page 249 of GPB (Wilmette, 1944). Again, this stuff happened nearly a century ago. People are not directly responsible for what their great grandparents might have done.
Vids4daJ 4 years ago
Although this woman has the blood of Baha'u'llah running in her veins it doesn't make her a follower. It is the covenant of this Faith that binds us and differentiates us from other religions. If the UHJ says we should stay away then we follow because its our law. I am happy to see her character joyful and calm and sweet about everything for Baha'u'llah has a place for her in the Abha Kingdom...
omie267 4 years ago
Nigar doesn't claim that her ancestry makes her a Bahai. She simply makes a statement of belief. Please point to anything by the House that says Baha'is should shun Nigar bahai Amsalem. So far no-one has been able to do so, although that hasn't stopped the baseless assertions from flying about.
Vids4daJ 4 years ago
"These blessed words were uttered by the Tongue of Grandeur in the Land of Mystery (Adrianople), exalted and glorified is His utterance:
omie267 4 years ago
"One of the distinguishing characterisitics of this most great Dispensation is that the kin of such as have recognized and embraced the truth of this Revelation and have, in the glory of His name, the Sovereign Lord, quaffed the choice, sealed wine from the chalice of the love of the One True God, will upon their death, if they are outwardly non-believers, be graciously invested with divine forgiveness and partake of the ocean of His Mercy."
omie267 4 years ago
"This bounty, however, will be vouchsafed only to such souls as have inflicted no harm upon Him Who is the Sovereign Truth nor upon His loved ones..." - Baha'u'llah
omie267 4 years ago
please refer or ask the Universal house of justice of any questions, they are there for our guide and refuge when there is doubt in our minds. it is pointless to argue (although i havent seen the comments below)... a true Bahai would listen to the UHJ and obey their guidance
omie267 4 years ago
Actually, God is our guide and refuge :-)
O God! Refresh and gladden my spirit. Purify my heart. Illumine my powers. I lay all my affairs in Thy hand. Thou art my Guide and Refuge. I will no longer be full of anxiety, nor will I let trouble harass me. I will not dwell on the unpleasant things of life. O God! Thou art more friend to me than I am to myself. I dedicate myself to Thee, O Lord. (`Abdu'l-Bahá, Bahá'í Prayers, p. 152)
Vids4daJ 4 years ago
In the Bahai Faith divine guidance continues in an objective way, with an institution to which Baha'u'llah has promised His guidance and upon which He has conferred supreme authority... Universal House of Justice... The community order of of Baha'u'llah is thus of a theocratic nature: God Himself rules His people
omie267 4 years ago