the COC,,does absolutley nothing,,your right chris,,they have no ministries,dont pray over the sick,no evangelism..condemm people to hell when they are on their deathbed,,totally useless religion.
johnny thinks he sshould be exhalted that hes even talking to this guy..lol for his precious time..a christian cant be baptised? oh really johnny??in acts 10 they werent baptised and they spoke in tounges,,only christians speak in tounges.
ask them questions on how a person on their deathbed can be saved..they have no answer for it,,even though,according to their twisted doctrine,they are already condemmed to hell cuase they cant be baptised with water..lol
1. If he is informing the people of Yoshua's word, then he is showing devotion. It is written to preach the word in season and out of season; which means to preach is when it's popular and not popular; all because the denominations don't want to hear that they are doing wrong doesn't make him a bad guy.
2. Yes; when it says to be baptized. You can also argue "where does it say that I can't eat pancakes for communion?" That is flawed logic. If your parents tell you to clean your room and you clean the room you want to clean and your parents punish you for it, you in your mind call the parents unjust; when the Almighty commands all to be baptized, and people do what they want and get punished, they also call The Almighty "unjust".
I wanna rape too! I can't? That's Unjust! *rolls eyes".
Oh, yeah; since you're offering him a "debate" let me educate you what the bible says about debate: Debate, as what you have done, is not what Christians do Rom 1:28-32 and the meaning: G2054 ἔρις eris er'-is Of uncertain affinity; a quarrel, that is, (by implication) wrangling: - contention, debate, strife, variance. Rom 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
What a Christian is supposed to do is tell the good news; if you are harping on him, and at least he brought scripture on his behalf, how much less should I consider you, not having any word from the bible for him? Your merely asked questions; that is a debate. You don't come to spread Christ's word, you just wanted to argue. If you want to correct him, show him where he is wrong form the bible. But oh: then you would be doing exactly what he is doing. So therefore, how can I call him wrong?
Well, about those "rules and regulations" - Jesus said, "If you love me you'll keep my comandments" (John 14:15). Did I see I Peter 3:15 posted up there on this video? So, what about the rest of that chapter? Jesus said that his words would judge us on the last day (John 12:47 - 50). I better be paying attention then to His word, and whatever His word says to do to be saved, if I don't do it - am I saved?
I think I recognize this man. Is this the man who sold Dodges for so long in the Los Angeles area? He always had late night TV commercials with circus animals he would call "my dog, Spot."
He will never debate anyone in person, because when he's proven wrong he'll hang up on you. I've watched enough of his shows to say there is no love. He does not have the love of Jesus in his heart. Like you said, "That's not Jesus" If Jesus wanted a book to use as ammunition, he would have/could have written it himself. Robertson is not Christlike and I doubt he's even a Christian. But, I will pray for him, as I do any sinner, including myself.
Acts 2:38, Mark 16:15-16, & 1 Peter 3:20-21 clearly states that one must be baptized to be saved. I am also of the Church of Christ and i will bash all of you other churches too because each and every church that does not follow the bible in its purity IS GOING TO HELL. to be truthful, every soul in the Church of Christ will not make it to heaven. The bible says to study to show thyself approved, 2 timothy 2:15.
@booman4184 " to be truthful, every soul in the Church of Christ will not make it to heaven." Every person who DIES as a member of the church of Christ is most certainly saved. The church of Christ IS the saved.
Chris is extremely immature and it shows in his confrontation. He claims to show the love, when love is meant to come from obeying. Chris I am sorry for you. You should have tried showing him some respect, the same respect he showed you. You also should have stuck around until after, it seems like you were the scared one. You tried getting an interview for the moment, instead of being calm and collected, and showed only that you have poor bible knowledge
Kwerky states 1 Peter 3:15, but it is taken way out of context. What the passage means is a Christian should know the gospel and also know how to defend it. Johnny Robertson had paid air time when this was filmed which would explain why he didn't want to debate at that moment. He never said he wouldn't debate, he just said not at that moment. Also Kwerky accused Johnny of not loving. The gospel says that teach your neighbor the word of God then you will go to hell. If johnny's show and teaching
I don't get it...where was he behaving badly? How is Kwerky showing the love of Christ? Sounds like a person who needs to to get over their own "spite."
just as I thought, totally deceptive title. the only person behaving badly in this video is Chris. you couldn't even let him finish a sentence in your shaky voice. is that supposed to be love? humility? this kind of attack happens to me frequently by denominations.
where does the Bible say that baptism is a work? you don't do any work. you submit to someone else.
"There is also an antitype which now saves us—baptism"
if you're not "saved", then you go to hell. it's called logic - if p then q
And he said unto them, Go into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believes and is baptized shall be saved, and he that disbelieves shall be condemned.
Before You Down yourself about Your aggressiveness.Remember when Jesus was On The Temple steps dealing with merchants he was not handing out Daisies.He was Cheesed off.He was not Doing The John Lennon pope smokes dope thing.He was Down Right Peed Off! So...anger is not a bad thing.Even Jesus Got Cheesed Off.
I Saw a sight called ask a preacher.I Asked about Jesus being Poor and if he was.Saw later it was Church Of Christ sight.If They say Yes,Im Going to ask why Johnny's hat cost more than all my Wardrobe.Still think You should have told him You were a snake handler and hold a Squigly bag.But Lying Is Wrong....Jokes are funny.Do you have a Bible Knowledge?(is That Short for Do You agree With me?)Guess there is always free will.Love the Python Stuff.
Who would pay for the tv Debate?He would rather be like most who do not want to back up their mouth.Tell him They are Naked Hippies that Smoke dope and Miss Charlie,that is who you worship with.But that would be a lie.Come up with the Doe and See if he can debate.Get Your own You tube show so to speak.Renegade!!!You Should Insult his hat.Chris aint gonna win,You cant beat someone who wont fight.Should have seen the cops when ya wanted to see kelly almond.
this man is just plain rude and there is no way he is a man of Christ. He is a smart ass and he never answers questions, he always has another question to come back with. i would go to hell before following this man!
kwerky wut are you talking about the last few minutes of the video? Christ salvation message is about getting rid from repuatation of being unholy and sinners. Not rules and regulations. Ok you have a explanation for Mark 16:16: please explain ACTs chapter 2:38?
Where it says in the Bible you have to be baptized in order to enter the kingdom of heaven: John 3:3-5 "Jesus answered and said to him, Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Nicodemus said to Him, How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mothers womb and be born?
Jesus answered, Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God."
"Water" is the water of birth, the water of the womb of the earthly mother. Jesus is teaching and correctly that a person must be born of flesh and then of spirit.
"Water baptism" is a mere work that brings no righteousness or justification before God with it.
@kwerky That's ridiculous, so if you don't exist you can't go to heaven? Of course you would need to have existed in order to go to heaven! DUH! v.5 He is not talking about "water" of natural birth, the ruptured amnionic sac. Read v.4 again, Nicodemus already understands natural birth. Flesh gives birth to flesh, refers to natural birth. Acts 2:38 - water baptism is a command. How is water baptism a work? when the person being baptized is doing nothing. Holy Spirit does the work buddy.
Last I checked, to be considered eligable for heaven you have to live a life where even if you do commit a sin, you make up for it, on top of making sure the life you lead is as good a life as possible. Being a good person in other words. Baptizing is a fraud as it implies it allows anyone in as long as they accept Jesus as their lord and savior. That would mean Hitler would be in heaven since he was a Roman Catholic, and his viewpoints were extreme right wing.
kwerky, do you really want to hold to the position that the last part of Mark is not apart of the Bible? that my friend is a steep slope. I'd like to debate you regarding baptism.
The earliest manuscripts do not have the last several verses of Mark. They only appear in manuscripts dated 2 and 3 centuries later. There is also considerable internal textual evidence that those verses were a later addition.
that is simply not true, they are in 3 of the 4 major greek text which are used to put together the english Bible any textual scholar will tell you that there is good evidence for Mark 16. Don't abuse a small detail in order to rid yourself of what the Bible says please.
If you are referring to the so-called "Textus Receptus", then you are in trouble 'cuz that was one of the slip-shoddiest pieces of scholarship in the history of anything. Erasmus only had some very late manuscripts to work from... and he was in a rush to translate because he was trying to win a contest!
Again, the last verses of Mark are in high probability late additions and not from the original text.
I personally do not like this Robertson's "persona', but Mark 16:16 clearly states that those that are not baptized and do not believe, will be condemend.
Break it down, read it.
But I do not agree with this guys Johnny's attitude.
It's very possible that Mark 16:16 isn't supposed to be in the Book of Mark to begin with. That verse - along with the rest of the end of Mark - doesn't appear in any of the earliest manuscripts. It's not until a few hundred years later that it shows up at all. So it was likely a later addition.
All of these post with different veiws explain why the mouth of hell has enlarged itself without measure...The devil has done a good job confusion with many reigns supreme...this will end and the righteous will be vindicated..and the wicked shall be punished...Christ is glorified when lifted up..John 3:14 that means anyone else must be pushed down John the Baptist (the baptizer) knew this. If only others did..John 1:22-31
I thought the Bible says that only God can know the hearts of men. But apparently, you are placing yourself on His level by saying you KNOW what my intentions are. You are not God. You don't know my intentions. But you DID avoid the question. Can anyone be saved outside of Christ? No, not the Church of Christ, but Christ Himself. The words "church of" are nowhere in my question. You placed them in there on your own. The simple question is: Can anyone be saved outside of Christ?
So kwerky, you were so proud in this video that you found a question that this man wouldn't answer. Why is it now that when faced with a simple question, YOU won't answer?
By the way, kwerky, thank you for your time and consideration in the matter, and I do appreciate the fact that you seem to be focused on God and the Bible. If the wrong tone has come through in any of my posts, I want to apologize and I hope you'll forgive me. I just still truly don't understand your teaching, and I believe two honest people can come to one agreement about God's word. (II Peter 1:20)
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
John 1:7 says that it is the Blood of Jesus that cleanses us of sin, not baptism. I believe thta Paul states that baptism is symbolic of the death and ressurection he went through. We may be commanded to do such, but in no way does it save us. IMO that is...
My question was: if a person isn't baptized, have they done everything Jesus said to do to be saved? (Mark 16:16). I am not sure of your answer. Jesus tied two words together in Mark 16:16 that can never be untied: "Belief" AND "Baptism. Both, Jesus says, will save a man if he does them. Jesus said baptism will save you. Yes His blood cleanses us from our sin, but Romans 6 will explain the connection between baptism and Jesus' death, which included his blood. Can u b saved outside Christ?
Whether you and I come to agreement does not matter. Giving glory to God *does* matter.
That is something I have never seen your particular faction interested in at all. I don't know if you're even capable of it. You are so fixated on legalism, on following "rules" that Christ came to free us from to begin with. Christ tore the curtain down in the temple. You are trying to put it back up.
So Christ prayed for unity, and you say unity doesn't matter. It seems that when faced with simple logic, you retreat to attacks on people. As of now, you are essentially condemning a set of tactics used by people you don't like by USING THE EXACT SAME TACTICS. So if this type of Bible discussion is so beneath you, why do you continue to participate and film people and retaliate and fight fire with fire. Isn't that contradictory?
It certainly doesn't mean that we *have* to get dunked in water in order to get to Heaven!
What happens if a person comes to believe in Christ in the middle of the Sahara Desert, with NO water readily available for baptism, and then he gets shot and killed by bandits? By YOUR interpretation, he goes to Hell because he wasn't baptized.
That's not just silly. That's theological insanity. And fortunately, God DOESN'T save or condemn us on the basis of water baptism.
@kwerky - well actually, I choose not to treat God's word like a Bill from Congress by looking for loop-holes, and trying to find things i don't "have" to do. When God said baptism saves us, I Peter 3:21, I believed Him, along with grace and faith and ALL the other things God mentioned that save us. Before avoiding the subject, please answer this question: What, then, would a person need to do in order to be saved?
First belief and repentance, then we are baptized to publicly identify ourselves with Christ.
That is what 3:21 means...The shedding of blood by Jesus was what saved us. If you believe Baptism is required to be saved then you are saying the blood of Christ was not good enough.
This makes my point exactly. On person, kwerky, says all that is required is Grace. The next, LokiLasher, adds belief and then repentance. Both of which are works done by us. Why stop there when Christ, who GAVE the blood, added baptism in Mark 16:16. I appreciate both of you for caring about this topic. My question to you LokiLasher is this: if a person hasn't been baptized, have they done everything that Jesus said to do to be saved? (Mark 16:16) Again, I appreciate you
Disagreeing with Johnny is one thing, and disliking him is one thing. But disagreeing with God when God teaches us that baptism saves us is not safe to do, or lead others to do. (I Peter 3:21) Yes, grace and faith and repentance and confession are all involved, obviously; but to say baptism isn't involved in saving someone is saying, "God, you were wrong when you inspired I Peter 3:21". Everything God mentions as playing a role in saving us should be good enough to make your list, right?
So you're going to commit to this stance: if there isn't a verse that says, "be baptized or go to hell", then baptism isn't needed for salvation? because if you commit to that stance, you are therefore admitting faith is not needed, because there is no verse that says, "have faith or go to hell". Logic will shine through every time. Why not embrace ALL that God says can save us? That would include baptism (I Peter 3:21). Why disagree with God when he says baptism saves you?
Im glad ya did this Chris.....If baptism was needed for salvation that would be saying that Jesus death on the cross wasnt enough. Yes baptism is a great show of obedience to the Lord, but it never says in the Bible that it is a requirement to salvation.
I think "liveforjesus2day" should read all the comments on youtube that note the actions of this man Johnny Robertson. Condemning people in certain religions to hell and accusing underaged girls in ballerina outfits of showing panties and showing as much as you see in kiddie porn shops (words of Johnny Robertson) is in no way a cause of Christ. Anyone who rebukes Robertson such as kwerky should be commended
thanks for the advice, it is always important to try the spirits as advised in Ist John and that includes spirits of any and all professed believers, nonbelievers, preachers, teachers, family and friends. As far as reading everything, I will try to play catch up yet the gospel of Christ is for all men and repentance is making a decision not to sin and confession is recommended to all followers, I do want to say that kwerky did say "forgive me" so I believe he is trying to be sincere.
the love of God is this that we do unto others as we would have them do to us< so my observation of the actions of this video done by kwerky (chris) is an obstruction to the cause of Christ, <the bible says to be righteous and lay hands on no man suddenly, kwerky this is an embarassment to you
It appears to me that both parties were out of line here. I admit Johnny is caught up in legalism (and I am a part of the church of Christ), but I also know a little of debate. You ran up and challenged him for that night, when proper debates have to be scheduled. They don't just happen off the cuff. Think of debates as duels with words. You don't just walk up to someone and shoot them if you want to duel. You challenge them for a particular subject, with a certain time and place.
I don't know what led up to this, but on this particular instance, Johnny wasn't turning down your challenge, but was saying it didn't suit to have a debate that night. When he asked about what "group" you are with, I don't know his motives, but I know that it helps me to know how to approach people and what to talk about. It wouldn't make much sense for me to debate the Godhead with a Baptist, or the need for personal evangelism with Jehovah's Witnesses.
dont you love it when christians fight christians?
Whatever happened to the " holy spirit isnt the author of confusion"? Considering how many different and opposing denominations there are all claiming the holy spirit....... thank God I left Christianity for atheism.
hey my name is 13mholmes.and i got something to say to you.JOHNNY ROBERTSON is not a cult leader.if you call yourself a christain ,you want call nobody a name like that over thousands of people.roman 16:16 says salute one anoter with a holy kiss.THE CHRUCH OF CHRIST SULT YOU.not:bapt.,cath,or all that stuff.
it says " The churchES of Christ " --You people twist that to fit your doctrines, but the Book doesnt even say what you say it says. either you're misinformed or a liar. i'm not sure yet, so i will assume misinformed
I don't know who Johnny Robertson is, but the first question I'd ask this guy with the video camera is why he needs a verse that says if you're not baptized you'll go to hell? The Bible already says whoever believes and is baptized shall be saved, and it also says, "baptism now saves you." What more do you want?
That particular verse could very well be a fraud, since the earliest manuscripts do not have it.
And even if it is legitimate, there are still NO verses in the Bible that ever state that a person who has never been baptized, will be damned.
And it was never water baptism that the New Testament speaks of anyway, but rather baptism in in the Spirit. I do believe water baptism is important... but that is a work, which can NEVER save us.
1 Peter 3:21 is a fraud now? Why? Because it doesn't fit the man-made doctrine you're trying to force into the BIble? You believe water baptism is "important." Do you have scripture that says that? What does scripture say about water baptism?
conca--in Lk 3:16, John Baptist said there's at least 3 types of baptism. why do baptismal regenerists assume everytime the word "baptize" is in the Bible that it means dunked in water? does a person receive the Holy Spirit b4 or after being baptized?
Well, I don't consider myself a "baptismal regenerist" so I guess your first question is directed at someone else. A person receives the Holy Spirit after being baptized in the name of Jesus (Acts 2:38), which Peter says is water baptism (Acts 10:47-48).
i'm speaking straight at you conca. you're confused and dont know your Bible. see, no baptismal regenerist has ever answered my question. why do baptismal regenerists assume everytime the word "baptize" is in the Bible that it means dunked in water? why is Acts 2:38 water bapt? why not Baptized in the Holy Ghost (Lk3:16)? the word 'for' in Acts 2:38 can also mean because of. because of the remission of sins. cont.....
Well, again, I'm not a "baptismal regenerist." Can we get away from the labels for a minute and actually discuss the Bible? Why is Acts 2:38 water baptism? Well, Peter links baptism in the name of Jesus with water baptism in Acts 10:47-48, that's why. It doesn't make any sense to force the word "for" to mean because in verse 38 either. I noticed you didn't answer one question I asked, where in scripture is baptism called "important?"
also you get the Spirit BEFORE water baptism Ac 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which HAVE RECEIVED the Holy Ghost as well as we? they were saved THEN dunked. i hope this gives you a better understanding. now you know why johnny and others of his ilk have NEVER been able to explain what i just gave you. you dont work to be saved, but work because you're saved---dont get baptized to be saved, but get baptized because you're saved
I would need more than 500 characters to explain why I believe Spirit baptism was done to only a few select people. It was a fulfillment of prophecy first of all (Joel 2:28), so the Jews received it at Pentecost and the Gentiles at Caesarea with Cornelius. That was "all mankind," and it included the reception of miraculous abilities. I do not believe these abilities exist anymore.
I never said anything about working to get saved either. Why make all these assumptions? Maybe you should ask me what my view is on works before making accusations. Don't get baptized to be saved? The only place in the Bible that talks about being put in to Christ uses the term baptize. We clothe ourselves with Christ in baptism (Galatians 3:27). We participate in His death, burial and resurrection in baptism AND become a new creature (Romans 6:3-8). Sounds more than just important to me.
you said you must be dunked in water to be saved. you said a person receives the Holy Ghost after being dunked. I give you the plain teaching of the Bible once again. Acts 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which HAVE RECEIVED the Holy Ghost as well as we?--you can stick w/ your tradition or go w/ the Book. you've been told. now you see why you cant get over the Book. you must conform your view w/ the Book. dont twist the Book to conform to your views
Dude your so far off it's sad . Please read Acts chapter 11 : 1-3 the circumcised took issue with Peter because he went to the gentiles. Read all of chapter 11 and then all of chapter 15 and in verse 8 God testified to the gentiles giving them the Holy Spirit . God testified that the Gentiles was accepted with the Jews to be saved. Water don't save the blood of Christ saves but it is when you have obeyed what God commanded that you get the blessing of forgiveness of sins. Read all Romans 6
that verse in acts 10 runs your doctrine right outta town, yet you grasp at any straw to hold to your beliefs. i know the arguement--the water brings you into contact w/ the Blood. the Book, the Bible you say you believe, says a person has the Holy Spirit FIRST, then they are baptized. believe what you want. p.s my family is Church of Christ so you and that johnny cat dont impress me much. he also, strangely enough, stopped commenting to me when confronted w/ these verses.
First, we have to establish what water baptism is. In Peter's case, it was baptism in the name of Jesus. Peter also commanded the crowd at Pentecost to be baptized in the name of Jesus for the forgiveness of sins. Romans 6 says we become a new creature in Christ in baptism. Galatians 3:27 says we clothe ourselves with Christ in baptism. You're using one incident with Cornelius to determine salvation for everyone. I think Cornelius, like the Apostles, was a special case to fulfill prophecy.
Like I said, I believe Cornelius received Holy Spirit baptism, which only happened to a few select people to fulfill a prophecy told in Joel. If you're hanging your hat on Acts 10, then explain why Acts 2 says to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus and then you SHALL receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. They were told to repent and be baptized in order to receive the Spirit. Acts 5:32 says the Spirit is given to those who obey. Not the other way around.
who said Acts 2:38 is being dunked in water? you? why cant it be baptized in the Holy Ghost like John Baptist said there is? you must interpret the harder verses in light of the easier verses. and Acts 10 is simple. you get saved FIRST, then you get dunked in water. any other rendering of that is dishonest and is twisting scripture to fit your theology.
As I have already stated, Peter linked baptism in the name of Jesus with water in Acts 10. Why would it be any different all of a sudden in Acts 2? In Acts 2, Peter had received the baptism of the Holy Spirit and then tells the crowd to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus in order to receive the Holy Spirit. Plus the fact that Philip baptized the Eunuch in water and Peter also compares Noah's "salvation" through water with baptism in 1 Peter 3:21.
i'm glad you brought up the ethiopian eunuch. just another opportunity, like Acts 10 and Cornelius getting the Holy Spirit b4 dunked, to knock down your false system. Ac8:37-38And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him-he was saved THEN dunked just like Cornelius
So you're saying the Eunuch was saved before he was baptized? What does Mark 16:16 say? What does 1 Peter 3:21 say? Is it your stance that upon belief only that someone is saved? Nowhere in the Bible does it ever state that, plus there are verses that mention the necessity of obedience, including obedience unto the reception of the Holy Spirit just like Acts 5:32 says. The Eunuch was saved AFTER he was baptized since the verse says he went on rejoicing AFTER it. Not before.
1 Pet 3:21 does your arguement a GREAT disservice. it explains what baptism represents. be sure to grasp the words in parenthesis. 1Pet 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:--as i've said, NO BODY that believes you must be dunked in water to be saved has EVER explained why they assume baptise ALWAYS means dunked in light of Lk 3:16
I thought I did explain it. Holy Spirit baptism was a prophecy told in Joel. The Jews received it at Pentecost (Acts 2:2-4) and the Gentiles at Caesarea (Acts 10:45-46). That fulfilled the prophecy, the Spirit had, at that very point, been poured out on "all mankind" as the prophecy states. With Holy Spirit baptism came miraculous gifts which also had a purpose that has been fulfilled.
Plus, another argument I'd like to make is when Paul was saved. Read through Acts 22 and tell me which verse that has him saved and what exactly it says. Notice how every single conversion in Acts includes baptism. Question to you is what does water baptism mean? You spend a lot of time telling me what it doesn't mean, what does it mean and I request you use scripture to back up your point.
Acts 8 and the eunuch, Acts 10 and Cornelius being saved first THEN dunked messes shoots down your theology. 1 Pet 3:21 explains what baptism represents. you've been shown the light as to how your religion is off. you must decide if you're gonna follow tradition or the Book. read more difficult verses in light of the easy passages such as Acts 10. there's no mistaking-baptized in water does nothing but gets you wet, baptized in the Holy Ghost (not tongues) is what gets you saved. good day
"there's no mistaking-baptized in water does nothing but gets you wet" ... Interesting, do you have any scripture to back that statement up? Nope, you don't. Why don't you try answering my question again, except this time actually using God's word to prove your point.
I don't see how I'm being dishonest. As I've pointed out before, Cornelius receiving Holy Spirit baptism was a fulfillment of prophecy. It was not a salvific act. The reception of Holy Spirit baptism had 2 purposes, 1 was to give them a helper as we read in John 14:26, the other was to confirm the word of God through miraculous abilities and signs as we read in Mark 16:20 and Hebrews 3:3-4. There no longer remains a need for miracles since we have the word of God and the power it has alone.
i attend a church of christ congregation. and johnny robertson is a false doctrine. he is worse than a pharisee. he is not a christian because his actions do not reflect jesus christ. his doctrine sends people to hell and he doesn't care. he only cares about wanting to be right in his own eyes. he can't tell us how he is a christian. he should tell us how what he is doing is what christ would have any christian do. he can not. he serves johnny robertson not jesus christ.
johnny robertson is a psycho who came to our town and tried to get everyone fighting each other. he is not a christian. he is a very evil man and i thank you for standing up to him where you live. i will show your video to others so that they will see on their own how evil this man is.
"Woe to you, Pharisees and Johnny Robertson, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men's bones and everything unclean."
It is funny how Johnny Robertson wont debate this man and said he may give him a little bit of time, but yet is getting so upset that Pastor Jennings wont debate him as he says? like i said before Johnny robertson wants popularity, he only wants PJ because he is well known but PJ would eat him alive. He talks alot on cyber space but never once came to PJ. I mean come on 2431 frankford ave philadelphia pa he aint hard to find if it was that serious.
Johnny Robertson and PreacherNorm are running neck and neck in the 154th Annual Alexander Campbell Memorial False-Teaching Mule Race; and regardless of which one eventually takes the crown THEY ARE BOTH LOSERS, unless they repent of their comfortably ARROGANT, PRIDEFUL, SMART-MOUTHED, SMART-ATTITUDE, SECTARIAN, SUPREMELY IGNORANT FALSE TEACHING!!
Both have more interest in CHURCH OF CHRIST DOGMA than TRUTH; but is it any wonder, for the Holy Spirit resides in neither of their poor souls!!
You are not saying anything that has not already been said, by many people over the centuries who dared insist that their understanding of God was of such perfection that they must lord it over others.
Indeed, you are not far removed from the mindset of the Taliban.
A hundred million graves and more of those butchered in the name of God, testify against your "one true doctrine".
Debating Johnny Robertson and JonathonDWhitehead is like debating a SACK OF HAMMERS! That's why the Baptists and others have quit debating Johnny; and that's why JDWhirehead quit responding to my comments - he could not handle the thruth of scripture....so let's take Matthew's advise - "Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine." Matthew 7:6
JonathonDWhitehead only knows 2 verses in the NT - Rom. 16:16 & Acts 2:38His WHOLE theology and EVERYTHING he knows about the Bible is built around those 2 verses.
Most people read and thoughtfully interpret holy scripture, and subsequently develop a sound, truthful, and consistent theology. The Church of Christ denomination interprets scripture OUT OF their ERRANT theological BIAS - that's why it makes more sense to have an intelligent and meaningful discussion with a man-hole cover.
Oh, there are boundaries. But I trust God to set them in place, whatever they might be, and not Johnny Robertson and his "Church of Christ in Name Only".
The key difference being, that God is ever merciful and will be graceful if we do wrong... whereas mere men like Johnny Robertson and his cult, have no mercy whatsoever. Or love for others either, for that matter.
And they are in no position to dictate what God is and isn't.
I find it strange that you wanted to DEBATE Johnny Robertson and now someone is willing to debate and you have repeatedly failed to back up your positions with Bible verses.
I am just a christian. I do not know Johnny Robertson and I certainly do not know you. I am willing, however, to have an open and honest Bible discussion.
I am still waiting for the verses where the Eunuch was clearly baptized for a good conscience. And the verse where Peter says baptism is a symbol.
I read those verses again and again and I d not see where the Eunuch was baptized for a clear conscience. The reason is it is NOT THERE. You aere right there is nothing you can do about it, I would love to see you change your position in light of the evidence though.
Anyway, I hope you keep studying and asking questions. There is nothing wrong with that but I think we need to be careful of our attitudes.
So your grace that you say Jonny doesnt teach mean that mormons, catholics, Jahova's witnesses saved.
Bro I give all the respect to jonny. He was being humble and wasnt yelling. Dont go to jonny, go to the website of any church of christ website for the complete doctrine.
Why don't you read the verses for yourself, and then THINK about them on your own, with the brain that God gave you, instead of responding with whatever Johnny Robertson or whoever else it is, is telling you to believe?
Just as it cannot be demonstrated that their "Church of Christ", as they practice it, is not to be found in the Bible at all.
What verse says the Eunuch was baptized for a good conscience?? Oh, you don't have one.
What's that? Peter did not say the water was a symbol of anything, in 1 Peter 3. Well, by all means resort to slamming the church and accuse me of being brainwashed.
I was hoping for an honest debate. I do not know Johnny Roberetson. He seems to be a little harsh but that does not mean that what he says is not true. I am sure the Pharisees felt Jesus treated them unfairly a lot.
I feel you have made a error in trying to "rightfully divide the word of truth."
Show you in the Bible where it says be baptized or you go to hell?? I admit that I cannot do that. I can show you, however, where baptism saves. If baptism saves you (1 peter 3:21) doesn't it make sense that you are not saved without it?
Is baptism really a work? I mean, can I boast about being baptized?? What a silly idea that is, you submit to baptism. IE... it is something that is done TO YOU not BY U.
In Acts chapter 10 Cornelius had the Holy spirit fall upon him and he was COMMANDED to be baptized in water. The ethiopian Eunuch was clearly baptized in water in Acts 8.1Pe 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
Peter says water baptism saves us.Seems you have either misunderstood or dismiissed wehat the bible says concerning WATER baptism
How could the Holy Spirit fall on Cornelius if he was not already saved at that point, before baptism?
The eunuch had also clearly believed and wanted to be baptized out of good conscience, not because it was REQUIRED of him so that he might be saved.
And if WATER baptism DOES save us, then what about ALL the folks who have died WITHOUT water baptism, though they have come to Christ and accepted His grace?
Again, you are adding a work that we do, to the already finished work of Christ.
The Eunuch CLEARLY believed and wanted to be be baptized out of a good conscience?? What verse was that in? I do not see where the scripture says that, and you accuse me of adding to the word??
Why was Cornelius COMMANDED to be baptized in water by Peter? I could understand Peter merely suggesting it if it was not required.
How could the Holy Spirit fall on cornelius before he was saved? The way it did in ACTS 10.
I could not help but notice you have not touched 1PETER3:20-21. WHY?
Well, 1 Peter 3 answers all of the questions that you raised...
In verse 21, Peter EXPLICITLY says that baptism is a pledge "of good conscience toward God" and that the water is a SYMBOL of what ACTUALLY saves: the finished resurrection of Jesus Christ.
How you are getting from this that water baptism is an absolute REQUIREMENT for salvation, I haven't a clue. But Peter could not be more clear: that water is a symbol, not a saving device in and of itself.
The fact is - if it (baptism alone) did save us I would literally take people by force and baptize them, throw them in the water, fully covered.
What saves us (mankind) is obedience - doing that which the Lord commands, Jn. 14:15. The Lord commanded baptism, so therefore, when one is baptized he or she is obeying the Lord's command and in so doing will be able to answer with a good conscience toward God - I obeyed your command - I was baptized.
You forgot to say the part about : "...Baptism doth also now save us..." But that does not really fit your argument
1Pe 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
Peter says baptism saves us and is " the answer of a good conscience toward God.
And here in 1peter 3 Peter says that water is a symbol of ....??? Please give verse.
BTW, please do not forget to show where the Bible CLEARLY says the Eunuch was baptized for a good conscience... I cannot believe you wrote that after accusing mr of adding to the word...lol
Man I just read your last post again and you have made even more unfounded infrences. Peter says EXPLICITY that baptism is a pledge of ""of good conscience toward God" AND that the water is a SYMBOL of what ACTUALLY saves
In what verse did Peter say water was a symbol of anything??
I think you are sincere and I can appreciate that but I think you need to quit making all of these inferences and go by what it says. Not what you wished or thought it said.
Chris you made your self look like a complete fool. here is the verse johhy robertson wouldhave given you. read it carefully it shopws that if you are not baptize then you are going to hell. this is jesus speaking.
Mark 16:15 & 16 "Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." (meaning if you dont believe' then obvioulsy you wont get baptized) so you will go to hell.
And if it is impossible for a person to be baptized after salvation, then that person is going to Hell?
If a person repents and turns to Christ, and then is killed in an automobile accident before getting to baptismal water, that person is thus damned forever?
Are you seriously telling us this?
Why have you made God so small, that He cannot redeem a person unless they are able to do a physical act?
The "God" of Johnny Robertson is petty. Just as Robertson is.
why dont you be realstic, obviously if a person had not gotten a chance to be baptized after accepting jesus; sureely jesus can understand their predicament, but it you repent and have ample opportunity to become baptized; and say the hell with getting bapize then thats were you will end up in hell
You didn't prove anything
claybowman11 1 week ago
the COC,,does absolutley nothing,,your right chris,,they have no ministries,dont pray over the sick,no evangelism..condemm people to hell when they are on their deathbed,,totally useless religion.
uwique 1 week ago
johnny thinks he sshould be exhalted that hes even talking to this guy..lol for his precious time..a christian cant be baptised? oh really johnny??in acts 10 they werent baptised and they spoke in tounges,,only christians speak in tounges.
uwique 1 week ago
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ask them questions on how a person on their deathbed can be saved..they have no answer for it,,even though,according to their twisted doctrine,they are already condemmed to hell cuase they cant be baptised with water..lol
uwique 1 week ago
your doctrine is false johnny,thats why your church is not in the bible.
uwique 1 week ago
There was lots of question out there to solve
MyStar39 3 weeks ago
1. If he is informing the people of Yoshua's word, then he is showing devotion. It is written to preach the word in season and out of season; which means to preach is when it's popular and not popular; all because the denominations don't want to hear that they are doing wrong doesn't make him a bad guy.
pixelsword 1 month ago
2. Yes; when it says to be baptized. You can also argue "where does it say that I can't eat pancakes for communion?" That is flawed logic. If your parents tell you to clean your room and you clean the room you want to clean and your parents punish you for it, you in your mind call the parents unjust; when the Almighty commands all to be baptized, and people do what they want and get punished, they also call The Almighty "unjust".
I wanna rape too! I can't? That's Unjust! *rolls eyes".
pixelsword 1 month ago
pixelsword 1 month ago
What a Christian is supposed to do is tell the good news; if you are harping on him, and at least he brought scripture on his behalf, how much less should I consider you, not having any word from the bible for him? Your merely asked questions; that is a debate. You don't come to spread Christ's word, you just wanted to argue. If you want to correct him, show him where he is wrong form the bible. But oh: then you would be doing exactly what he is doing. So therefore, how can I call him wrong?
pixelsword 1 month ago
Well, about those "rules and regulations" - Jesus said, "If you love me you'll keep my comandments" (John 14:15). Did I see I Peter 3:15 posted up there on this video? So, what about the rest of that chapter? Jesus said that his words would judge us on the last day (John 12:47 - 50). I better be paying attention then to His word, and whatever His word says to do to be saved, if I don't do it - am I saved?
Catlovertea4 4 months ago
I think I recognize this man. Is this the man who sold Dodges for so long in the Los Angeles area? He always had late night TV commercials with circus animals he would call "my dog, Spot."
TVWriterGuy 8 months ago
I love the music that followed Johnny after he said there is no such thing as a Christian who gets baptized.
thepride724 9 months ago
He will never debate anyone in person, because when he's proven wrong he'll hang up on you. I've watched enough of his shows to say there is no love. He does not have the love of Jesus in his heart. Like you said, "That's not Jesus" If Jesus wanted a book to use as ammunition, he would have/could have written it himself. Robertson is not Christlike and I doubt he's even a Christian. But, I will pray for him, as I do any sinner, including myself.
ranchgoddess 9 months ago
Acts 2:38, Mark 16:15-16, & 1 Peter 3:20-21 clearly states that one must be baptized to be saved. I am also of the Church of Christ and i will bash all of you other churches too because each and every church that does not follow the bible in its purity IS GOING TO HELL. to be truthful, every soul in the Church of Christ will not make it to heaven. The bible says to study to show thyself approved, 2 timothy 2:15.
booman4184 10 months ago
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@booman4184 " to be truthful, every soul in the Church of Christ will not make it to heaven." Every person who DIES as a member of the church of Christ is most certainly saved. The church of Christ IS the saved.
lllannallll 8 months ago
Chris is extremely immature and it shows in his confrontation. He claims to show the love, when love is meant to come from obeying. Chris I am sorry for you. You should have tried showing him some respect, the same respect he showed you. You also should have stuck around until after, it seems like you were the scared one. You tried getting an interview for the moment, instead of being calm and collected, and showed only that you have poor bible knowledge
sbarajas2007 10 months ago
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Correction: *if you do not teach your neighbor.
Vitalzime 11 months ago
Kwerky states 1 Peter 3:15, but it is taken way out of context. What the passage means is a Christian should know the gospel and also know how to defend it. Johnny Robertson had paid air time when this was filmed which would explain why he didn't want to debate at that moment. He never said he wouldn't debate, he just said not at that moment. Also Kwerky accused Johnny of not loving. The gospel says that teach your neighbor the word of God then you will go to hell. If johnny's show and teaching
Vitalzime 11 months ago
pretty shitty video. why would johnny want to debate someone who is harassing him, and, as he put it, may very well not have a bible knowledge.
Garro2 11 months ago
Read mark 16; 15-16 and you will find the answer to your question about being baptized..
ELVISALIVE123 11 months ago
I don't get it...where was he behaving badly? How is Kwerky showing the love of Christ? Sounds like a person who needs to to get over their own "spite."
J283T 11 months ago
Johnny might as well be picketing military funerals along with the westboro baptist church. What he's doing is just as bad!
wduane2807 1 year ago
Johhny is a stubling block to all ! whata loser
freespirit61 1 year ago
just as I thought, totally deceptive title. the only person behaving badly in this video is Chris. you couldn't even let him finish a sentence in your shaky voice. is that supposed to be love? humility? this kind of attack happens to me frequently by denominations.
where does the Bible say that baptism is a work? you don't do any work. you submit to someone else.
"There is also an antitype which now saves us—baptism"
if you're not "saved", then you go to hell. it's called logic - if p then q
tonoklein 1 year ago
Mark 16:15-16
And he said unto them, Go into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believes and is baptized shall be saved, and he that disbelieves shall be condemned.
pogolw101 1 year ago
you yanks love your bible bashin dont ya? makes me laugh
joe89nufc 1 year ago
Before You Down yourself about Your aggressiveness.Remember when Jesus was On The Temple steps dealing with merchants he was not handing out Daisies.He was Cheesed off.He was not Doing The John Lennon pope smokes dope thing.He was Down Right Peed Off! So...anger is not a bad thing.Even Jesus Got Cheesed Off.
SmokeBojangles 1 year ago
I Saw a sight called ask a preacher.I Asked about Jesus being Poor and if he was.Saw later it was Church Of Christ sight.If They say Yes,Im Going to ask why Johnny's hat cost more than all my Wardrobe.Still think You should have told him You were a snake handler and hold a Squigly bag.But Lying Is Wrong....Jokes are funny.Do you have a Bible Knowledge?(is That Short for Do You agree With me?)Guess there is always free will.Love the Python Stuff.
SmokeBojangles 1 year ago
Who would pay for the tv Debate?He would rather be like most who do not want to back up their mouth.Tell him They are Naked Hippies that Smoke dope and Miss Charlie,that is who you worship with.But that would be a lie.Come up with the Doe and See if he can debate.Get Your own You tube show so to speak.Renegade!!!You Should Insult his hat.Chris aint gonna win,You cant beat someone who wont fight.Should have seen the cops when ya wanted to see kelly almond.
SmokeBojangles 1 year ago
Johnny Robertson is a Heretic. I'll pray for him.
spellbiff 1 year ago
Is Robertson afraid? He is afraid more than even he knows.
enigma413 1 year ago
this is funny maybye
RonnieRoberts 1 year ago
he is the biggest con-artist i have ever seen...
mytakoma 1 year ago
this man is just plain rude and there is no way he is a man of Christ. He is a smart ass and he never answers questions, he always has another question to come back with. i would go to hell before following this man!
mytakoma 1 year ago
kwerky wut are you talking about the last few minutes of the video? Christ salvation message is about getting rid from repuatation of being unholy and sinners. Not rules and regulations. Ok you have a explanation for Mark 16:16: please explain ACTs chapter 2:38?
shawnmichaelfan 1 year ago
saved or unsaved right or wrong Johnny is rude
What is important though is to preach the truth in love to all who will listen .. Fighting with this guy is helping the cause of Christ either .
picassoui 1 year ago
Where it says in the Bible you have to be baptized in order to enter the kingdom of heaven: John 3:3-5 "Jesus answered and said to him, Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Nicodemus said to Him, How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mothers womb and be born?
Jesus answered, Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God."
inkiam 1 year ago
"Water" is the water of birth, the water of the womb of the earthly mother. Jesus is teaching and correctly that a person must be born of flesh and then of spirit.
"Water baptism" is a mere work that brings no righteousness or justification before God with it.
kwerky 1 year ago
@kwerky That's ridiculous, so if you don't exist you can't go to heaven? Of course you would need to have existed in order to go to heaven! DUH! v.5 He is not talking about "water" of natural birth, the ruptured amnionic sac. Read v.4 again, Nicodemus already understands natural birth. Flesh gives birth to flesh, refers to natural birth. Acts 2:38 - water baptism is a command. How is water baptism a work? when the person being baptized is doing nothing. Holy Spirit does the work buddy.
ilactore 1 year ago
@kwerky if you die lost you go to torment first (the waiting place) then on judgment day you will go to hell.
spider1g5 8 months ago
@kwerky excellent work brutha!!bout time somebody exsposed this cult.
uwique 1 week ago
@inkiam
Last I checked, to be considered eligable for heaven you have to live a life where even if you do commit a sin, you make up for it, on top of making sure the life you lead is as good a life as possible. Being a good person in other words. Baptizing is a fraud as it implies it allows anyone in as long as they accept Jesus as their lord and savior. That would mean Hitler would be in heaven since he was a Roman Catholic, and his viewpoints were extreme right wing.
NUTCASE71733 11 months ago
kwerky, do you really want to hold to the position that the last part of Mark is not apart of the Bible? that my friend is a steep slope. I'd like to debate you regarding baptism.
DeanTheMarine 1 year ago
The earliest manuscripts do not have the last several verses of Mark. They only appear in manuscripts dated 2 and 3 centuries later. There is also considerable internal textual evidence that those verses were a later addition.
So there.
kwerky 1 year ago
that is simply not true, they are in 3 of the 4 major greek text which are used to put together the english Bible any textual scholar will tell you that there is good evidence for Mark 16. Don't abuse a small detail in order to rid yourself of what the Bible says please.
DeanTheMarine 1 year ago
If you are referring to the so-called "Textus Receptus", then you are in trouble 'cuz that was one of the slip-shoddiest pieces of scholarship in the history of anything. Erasmus only had some very late manuscripts to work from... and he was in a rush to translate because he was trying to win a contest!
Again, the last verses of Mark are in high probability late additions and not from the original text.
kwerky 1 year ago
@kwerky sooo what your saying is that Mark did not write whats in the bible today? mhmmm i highly highly doubt that my friend
pogolw101 1 year ago
@kwerky Correct! Mark 16:9-20 wasn't in the original manuscripts.
spellbiff 1 year ago
@DeanTheMarine you cant debate,,the coc is false doctrine.
uwique 1 week ago
@DeanTheMarine baptism is an indication or a representation that u are truly saved.
uwique 8 hours ago
I personally do not like this Robertson's "persona', but Mark 16:16 clearly states that those that are not baptized and do not believe, will be condemend.
Break it down, read it.
But I do not agree with this guys Johnny's attitude.
JCCOUTINO 2 years ago
It's very possible that Mark 16:16 isn't supposed to be in the Book of Mark to begin with. That verse - along with the rest of the end of Mark - doesn't appear in any of the earliest manuscripts. It's not until a few hundred years later that it shows up at all. So it was likely a later addition.
kwerky 2 years ago
All of these post with different veiws explain why the mouth of hell has enlarged itself without measure...The devil has done a good job confusion with many reigns supreme...this will end and the righteous will be vindicated..and the wicked shall be punished...Christ is glorified when lifted up..John 3:14 that means anyone else must be pushed down John the Baptist (the baptizer) knew this. If only others did..John 1:22-31
hegler2 2 years ago
I think johnny robertson just might be more obnoxious than keith olbermann...not good not good
robinsonjamie04 2 years ago
Still, nobody has answered this important question: Can a person be saved outside of Christ?
shoused 2 years ago
You and I both know that you have no intention at all of making this question about Christ. Thus, you are corrupting it.
What you REALLY want this to mean is that there is no salvation outside YOUR twisted version of "Church of Christ".
In which case, I will reply that there is ABSOLUTELY salvation beyond YOUR "Church of Christ" shoused.
In fact, I don't know HOW salvation within YOUR "Church of Christ" is even possible or at least enjoyable.
kwerky 2 years ago
I thought the Bible says that only God can know the hearts of men. But apparently, you are placing yourself on His level by saying you KNOW what my intentions are. You are not God. You don't know my intentions. But you DID avoid the question. Can anyone be saved outside of Christ? No, not the Church of Christ, but Christ Himself. The words "church of" are nowhere in my question. You placed them in there on your own. The simple question is: Can anyone be saved outside of Christ?
shoused 2 years ago
Again you take it from a Bible question to attacking the person behind the question. How is what you are doing glorifying Christ?
shoused 2 years ago
So kwerky, you were so proud in this video that you found a question that this man wouldn't answer. Why is it now that when faced with a simple question, YOU won't answer?
shoused 2 years ago
By the way, kwerky, thank you for your time and consideration in the matter, and I do appreciate the fact that you seem to be focused on God and the Bible. If the wrong tone has come through in any of my posts, I want to apologize and I hope you'll forgive me. I just still truly don't understand your teaching, and I believe two honest people can come to one agreement about God's word. (II Peter 1:20)
shoused 2 years ago
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
John 1:7 says that it is the Blood of Jesus that cleanses us of sin, not baptism. I believe thta Paul states that baptism is symbolic of the death and ressurection he went through. We may be commanded to do such, but in no way does it save us. IMO that is...
LokiLasher 2 years ago
My question was: if a person isn't baptized, have they done everything Jesus said to do to be saved? (Mark 16:16). I am not sure of your answer. Jesus tied two words together in Mark 16:16 that can never be untied: "Belief" AND "Baptism. Both, Jesus says, will save a man if he does them. Jesus said baptism will save you. Yes His blood cleanses us from our sin, but Romans 6 will explain the connection between baptism and Jesus' death, which included his blood. Can u b saved outside Christ?
shoused 2 years ago
Whether you and I come to agreement does not matter. Giving glory to God *does* matter.
That is something I have never seen your particular faction interested in at all. I don't know if you're even capable of it. You are so fixated on legalism, on following "rules" that Christ came to free us from to begin with. Christ tore the curtain down in the temple. You are trying to put it back up.
kwerky 2 years ago
So Christ prayed for unity, and you say unity doesn't matter. It seems that when faced with simple logic, you retreat to attacks on people. As of now, you are essentially condemning a set of tactics used by people you don't like by USING THE EXACT SAME TACTICS. So if this type of Bible discussion is so beneath you, why do you continue to participate and film people and retaliate and fight fire with fire. Isn't that contradictory?
shoused 2 years ago
Christ prayed for unity.
You and your cult are trying to enforce it with bullying tactics, blatant lies and misrepresentation.
What you and Robertson are trying to achieve, shoused, is not "unity". It is "conformity". And not conformity with Christ, but conformity with *you*.
That makes you little different than the Nazis, the Stalinists, and the Khmer Rouge.
kwerky 2 years ago
God teaches that baptism saves us (I Peter 3:21). You are teaching that baptism does not save us. So is God correct, or are you correct?
shoused 2 years ago
We are saved by grace. Not by ANY works of our own, lest we should boast.
kwerky 2 years ago
@kwerky - So you teach that everyone will go to Heaven. Because "accepting" that grace would be a work of our own.
shoused 2 years ago
It certainly doesn't mean that we *have* to get dunked in water in order to get to Heaven!
What happens if a person comes to believe in Christ in the middle of the Sahara Desert, with NO water readily available for baptism, and then he gets shot and killed by bandits? By YOUR interpretation, he goes to Hell because he wasn't baptized.
That's not just silly. That's theological insanity. And fortunately, God DOESN'T save or condemn us on the basis of water baptism.
Why do you worship water?
kwerky 2 years ago
@kwerky - well actually, I choose not to treat God's word like a Bill from Congress by looking for loop-holes, and trying to find things i don't "have" to do. When God said baptism saves us, I Peter 3:21, I believed Him, along with grace and faith and ALL the other things God mentioned that save us. Before avoiding the subject, please answer this question: What, then, would a person need to do in order to be saved?
shoused 2 years ago
First belief and repentance, then we are baptized to publicly identify ourselves with Christ.
That is what 3:21 means...The shedding of blood by Jesus was what saved us. If you believe Baptism is required to be saved then you are saying the blood of Christ was not good enough.
LokiLasher 2 years ago
This makes my point exactly. On person, kwerky, says all that is required is Grace. The next, LokiLasher, adds belief and then repentance. Both of which are works done by us. Why stop there when Christ, who GAVE the blood, added baptism in Mark 16:16. I appreciate both of you for caring about this topic. My question to you LokiLasher is this: if a person hasn't been baptized, have they done everything that Jesus said to do to be saved? (Mark 16:16) Again, I appreciate you
shoused 2 years ago
Disagreeing with Johnny is one thing, and disliking him is one thing. But disagreeing with God when God teaches us that baptism saves us is not safe to do, or lead others to do. (I Peter 3:21) Yes, grace and faith and repentance and confession are all involved, obviously; but to say baptism isn't involved in saving someone is saying, "God, you were wrong when you inspired I Peter 3:21". Everything God mentions as playing a role in saving us should be good enough to make your list, right?
shoused 2 years ago
Chris, can you say where in the Bible it says, "Have faith or go to Hell"? Please respond.
shoused 2 years ago
As soon as you can show us "Be baptized or go to Hell".
Which you can't...
kwerky 2 years ago
So you're going to commit to this stance: if there isn't a verse that says, "be baptized or go to hell", then baptism isn't needed for salvation? because if you commit to that stance, you are therefore admitting faith is not needed, because there is no verse that says, "have faith or go to hell". Logic will shine through every time. Why not embrace ALL that God says can save us? That would include baptism (I Peter 3:21). Why disagree with God when he says baptism saves you?
shoused 2 years ago
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shoused 2 years ago
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shoused 2 years ago
Im glad ya did this Chris.....If baptism was needed for salvation that would be saying that Jesus death on the cross wasnt enough. Yes baptism is a great show of obedience to the Lord, but it never says in the Bible that it is a requirement to salvation.
LokiLasher 2 years ago
So you disagree with God when he inspired that baptism now saves us?
shoused 2 years ago
I think "liveforjesus2day" should read all the comments on youtube that note the actions of this man Johnny Robertson. Condemning people in certain religions to hell and accusing underaged girls in ballerina outfits of showing panties and showing as much as you see in kiddie porn shops (words of Johnny Robertson) is in no way a cause of Christ. Anyone who rebukes Robertson such as kwerky should be commended
scribblealot 2 years ago
thanks for the advice, it is always important to try the spirits as advised in Ist John and that includes spirits of any and all professed believers, nonbelievers, preachers, teachers, family and friends. As far as reading everything, I will try to play catch up yet the gospel of Christ is for all men and repentance is making a decision not to sin and confession is recommended to all followers, I do want to say that kwerky did say "forgive me" so I believe he is trying to be sincere.
liveforjesus2day 2 years ago
the love of God is this that we do unto others as we would have them do to us< so my observation of the actions of this video done by kwerky (chris) is an obstruction to the cause of Christ, <the bible says to be righteous and lay hands on no man suddenly, kwerky this is an embarassment to you
liveforjesus2day 2 years ago
liveforjesus2day, you have GOT to be kidding!
Johnny Robertson does NOTHING BUT obstructing the cause of Christ and "lay hands" on people suddenly! He harasses EVERYONE!
You obviously do not live in this area. Or else you are one of Robertson's followers. One or the other.
kwerky 2 years ago
It appears to me that both parties were out of line here. I admit Johnny is caught up in legalism (and I am a part of the church of Christ), but I also know a little of debate. You ran up and challenged him for that night, when proper debates have to be scheduled. They don't just happen off the cuff. Think of debates as duels with words. You don't just walk up to someone and shoot them if you want to duel. You challenge them for a particular subject, with a certain time and place.
hebrews413 2 years ago
I don't know what led up to this, but on this particular instance, Johnny wasn't turning down your challenge, but was saying it didn't suit to have a debate that night. When he asked about what "group" you are with, I don't know his motives, but I know that it helps me to know how to approach people and what to talk about. It wouldn't make much sense for me to debate the Godhead with a Baptist, or the need for personal evangelism with Jehovah's Witnesses.
hebrews413 2 years ago
Check out the Bob Lawson videos with Johnny Robertson. Good luck with the comments which seem to be hard to get posted on there.
bass7899 2 years ago
dont you love it when christians fight christians?
Whatever happened to the " holy spirit isnt the author of confusion"? Considering how many different and opposing denominations there are all claiming the holy spirit....... thank God I left Christianity for atheism.
FacelessPhoenix 2 years ago
Ahhh! I see my comments werent welcome here. : (
Perhaps I offended the author of this video. Forgive me. Im quite confident that this post too will be removed.
At any rate, remember my comments Mr Kwerky for your next encounter with the cowboy in this video. I am a public affairs person.
Now...back to the endless (and might I add...loveless) discussion on baptism, holy ghost, heaven and hell between followers of The Way on this board.
All here are concerned about being right
: (
MisterRaandyWatson 2 years ago
What. In. The. World... are you talking about??
I didn't even see any comments from you before. Neither are they in my e-mail box.
Could have been a snafu on YouTube's part. It's happened before.
kwerky 2 years ago
JR definitly has his preacher hustle on.
I can't comment on either side...I'm athiest.
gxcope 2 years ago
You may not believe in God... but God very much believes in you :-)
kwerky 2 years ago
hey my name is 13mholmes.and i got something to say to you.JOHNNY ROBERTSON is not a cult leader.if you call yourself a christain ,you want call nobody a name like that over thousands of people.roman 16:16 says salute one anoter with a holy kiss.THE CHRUCH OF CHRIST SULT YOU.not:bapt.,cath,or all that stuff.
13mholmes 2 years ago
Amen brother
timman1980 2 years ago
it says " The churchES of Christ " --You people twist that to fit your doctrines, but the Book doesnt even say what you say it says. either you're misinformed or a liar. i'm not sure yet, so i will assume misinformed
filoIII 2 years ago
I don't know who Johnny Robertson is, but the first question I'd ask this guy with the video camera is why he needs a verse that says if you're not baptized you'll go to hell? The Bible already says whoever believes and is baptized shall be saved, and it also says, "baptism now saves you." What more do you want?
Concatenate 2 years ago 2
That particular verse could very well be a fraud, since the earliest manuscripts do not have it.
And even if it is legitimate, there are still NO verses in the Bible that ever state that a person who has never been baptized, will be damned.
And it was never water baptism that the New Testament speaks of anyway, but rather baptism in in the Spirit. I do believe water baptism is important... but that is a work, which can NEVER save us.
kwerky 2 years ago
It's a work of God
timman1980 2 years ago
1 Peter 3:21 is a fraud now? Why? Because it doesn't fit the man-made doctrine you're trying to force into the BIble? You believe water baptism is "important." Do you have scripture that says that? What does scripture say about water baptism?
Concatenate 2 years ago
conca--in Lk 3:16, John Baptist said there's at least 3 types of baptism. why do baptismal regenerists assume everytime the word "baptize" is in the Bible that it means dunked in water? does a person receive the Holy Spirit b4 or after being baptized?
filoIII 2 years ago
Well, I don't consider myself a "baptismal regenerist" so I guess your first question is directed at someone else. A person receives the Holy Spirit after being baptized in the name of Jesus (Acts 2:38), which Peter says is water baptism (Acts 10:47-48).
Concatenate 2 years ago
i'm speaking straight at you conca. you're confused and dont know your Bible. see, no baptismal regenerist has ever answered my question. why do baptismal regenerists assume everytime the word "baptize" is in the Bible that it means dunked in water? why is Acts 2:38 water bapt? why not Baptized in the Holy Ghost (Lk3:16)? the word 'for' in Acts 2:38 can also mean because of. because of the remission of sins. cont.....
filoIII 2 years ago
Well, again, I'm not a "baptismal regenerist." Can we get away from the labels for a minute and actually discuss the Bible? Why is Acts 2:38 water baptism? Well, Peter links baptism in the name of Jesus with water baptism in Acts 10:47-48, that's why. It doesn't make any sense to force the word "for" to mean because in verse 38 either. I noticed you didn't answer one question I asked, where in scripture is baptism called "important?"
Concatenate 2 years ago
also you get the Spirit BEFORE water baptism Ac 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which HAVE RECEIVED the Holy Ghost as well as we? they were saved THEN dunked. i hope this gives you a better understanding. now you know why johnny and others of his ilk have NEVER been able to explain what i just gave you. you dont work to be saved, but work because you're saved---dont get baptized to be saved, but get baptized because you're saved
filoIII 2 years ago
I would need more than 500 characters to explain why I believe Spirit baptism was done to only a few select people. It was a fulfillment of prophecy first of all (Joel 2:28), so the Jews received it at Pentecost and the Gentiles at Caesarea with Cornelius. That was "all mankind," and it included the reception of miraculous abilities. I do not believe these abilities exist anymore.
Concatenate 2 years ago
i agree . what church are you in
timman1980 2 years ago
The only church, Christ's church. Specifically, I worship with the brethren in Sierra Vista, Arizona.
Concatenate 2 years ago
I never said anything about working to get saved either. Why make all these assumptions? Maybe you should ask me what my view is on works before making accusations. Don't get baptized to be saved? The only place in the Bible that talks about being put in to Christ uses the term baptize. We clothe ourselves with Christ in baptism (Galatians 3:27). We participate in His death, burial and resurrection in baptism AND become a new creature (Romans 6:3-8). Sounds more than just important to me.
Concatenate 2 years ago
you said you must be dunked in water to be saved. you said a person receives the Holy Ghost after being dunked. I give you the plain teaching of the Bible once again. Acts 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which HAVE RECEIVED the Holy Ghost as well as we?--you can stick w/ your tradition or go w/ the Book. you've been told. now you see why you cant get over the Book. you must conform your view w/ the Book. dont twist the Book to conform to your views
filoIII 2 years ago
Dude your so far off it's sad . Please read Acts chapter 11 : 1-3 the circumcised took issue with Peter because he went to the gentiles. Read all of chapter 11 and then all of chapter 15 and in verse 8 God testified to the gentiles giving them the Holy Spirit . God testified that the Gentiles was accepted with the Jews to be saved. Water don't save the blood of Christ saves but it is when you have obeyed what God commanded that you get the blessing of forgiveness of sins. Read all Romans 6
timman1980 2 years ago
that verse in acts 10 runs your doctrine right outta town, yet you grasp at any straw to hold to your beliefs. i know the arguement--the water brings you into contact w/ the Blood. the Book, the Bible you say you believe, says a person has the Holy Spirit FIRST, then they are baptized. believe what you want. p.s my family is Church of Christ so you and that johnny cat dont impress me much. he also, strangely enough, stopped commenting to me when confronted w/ these verses.
filoIII 2 years ago
First, we have to establish what water baptism is. In Peter's case, it was baptism in the name of Jesus. Peter also commanded the crowd at Pentecost to be baptized in the name of Jesus for the forgiveness of sins. Romans 6 says we become a new creature in Christ in baptism. Galatians 3:27 says we clothe ourselves with Christ in baptism. You're using one incident with Cornelius to determine salvation for everyone. I think Cornelius, like the Apostles, was a special case to fulfill prophecy.
Concatenate 2 years ago
Like I said, I believe Cornelius received Holy Spirit baptism, which only happened to a few select people to fulfill a prophecy told in Joel. If you're hanging your hat on Acts 10, then explain why Acts 2 says to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus and then you SHALL receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. They were told to repent and be baptized in order to receive the Spirit. Acts 5:32 says the Spirit is given to those who obey. Not the other way around.
Concatenate 2 years ago
who said Acts 2:38 is being dunked in water? you? why cant it be baptized in the Holy Ghost like John Baptist said there is? you must interpret the harder verses in light of the easier verses. and Acts 10 is simple. you get saved FIRST, then you get dunked in water. any other rendering of that is dishonest and is twisting scripture to fit your theology.
filoIII 2 years ago
As I have already stated, Peter linked baptism in the name of Jesus with water in Acts 10. Why would it be any different all of a sudden in Acts 2? In Acts 2, Peter had received the baptism of the Holy Spirit and then tells the crowd to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus in order to receive the Holy Spirit. Plus the fact that Philip baptized the Eunuch in water and Peter also compares Noah's "salvation" through water with baptism in 1 Peter 3:21.
Concatenate 2 years ago
i'm glad you brought up the ethiopian eunuch. just another opportunity, like Acts 10 and Cornelius getting the Holy Spirit b4 dunked, to knock down your false system. Ac8:37-38And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him-he was saved THEN dunked just like Cornelius
filoIII 2 years ago
So you're saying the Eunuch was saved before he was baptized? What does Mark 16:16 say? What does 1 Peter 3:21 say? Is it your stance that upon belief only that someone is saved? Nowhere in the Bible does it ever state that, plus there are verses that mention the necessity of obedience, including obedience unto the reception of the Holy Spirit just like Acts 5:32 says. The Eunuch was saved AFTER he was baptized since the verse says he went on rejoicing AFTER it. Not before.
Concatenate 2 years ago
1 Pet 3:21 does your arguement a GREAT disservice. it explains what baptism represents. be sure to grasp the words in parenthesis. 1Pet 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:--as i've said, NO BODY that believes you must be dunked in water to be saved has EVER explained why they assume baptise ALWAYS means dunked in light of Lk 3:16
filoIII 2 years ago
I thought I did explain it. Holy Spirit baptism was a prophecy told in Joel. The Jews received it at Pentecost (Acts 2:2-4) and the Gentiles at Caesarea (Acts 10:45-46). That fulfilled the prophecy, the Spirit had, at that very point, been poured out on "all mankind" as the prophecy states. With Holy Spirit baptism came miraculous gifts which also had a purpose that has been fulfilled.
Concatenate 2 years ago
Plus, another argument I'd like to make is when Paul was saved. Read through Acts 22 and tell me which verse that has him saved and what exactly it says. Notice how every single conversion in Acts includes baptism. Question to you is what does water baptism mean? You spend a lot of time telling me what it doesn't mean, what does it mean and I request you use scripture to back up your point.
Concatenate 2 years ago
Acts 8 and the eunuch, Acts 10 and Cornelius being saved first THEN dunked messes shoots down your theology. 1 Pet 3:21 explains what baptism represents. you've been shown the light as to how your religion is off. you must decide if you're gonna follow tradition or the Book. read more difficult verses in light of the easy passages such as Acts 10. there's no mistaking-baptized in water does nothing but gets you wet, baptized in the Holy Ghost (not tongues) is what gets you saved. good day
filoIII 2 years ago
"there's no mistaking-baptized in water does nothing but gets you wet" ... Interesting, do you have any scripture to back that statement up? Nope, you don't. Why don't you try answering my question again, except this time actually using God's word to prove your point.
Concatenate 2 years ago
I don't see how I'm being dishonest. As I've pointed out before, Cornelius receiving Holy Spirit baptism was a fulfillment of prophecy. It was not a salvific act. The reception of Holy Spirit baptism had 2 purposes, 1 was to give them a helper as we read in John 14:26, the other was to confirm the word of God through miraculous abilities and signs as we read in Mark 16:20 and Hebrews 3:3-4. There no longer remains a need for miracles since we have the word of God and the power it has alone.
Concatenate 2 years ago
thats right about what you said about the bible.wanna be friends.
13mholmes 2 years ago
amen
timman1980 2 years ago
Concerning Baptism
Matthew 28:19
Mark 16:16
John 3:5
Acts 10:47-49
Romans 6:4
1 Peter 3:21
BXbomber718 2 years ago
May I ask, "What was so loving regarding your behavior in this video?" "Where is your humility?"
pmaner 2 years ago
i attend a church of christ congregation. and johnny robertson is a false doctrine. he is worse than a pharisee. he is not a christian because his actions do not reflect jesus christ. his doctrine sends people to hell and he doesn't care. he only cares about wanting to be right in his own eyes. he can't tell us how he is a christian. he should tell us how what he is doing is what christ would have any christian do. he can not. he serves johnny robertson not jesus christ.
ELamarWatkins 2 years ago
johnny robertson is a psycho who came to our town and tried to get everyone fighting each other. he is not a christian. he is a very evil man and i thank you for standing up to him where you live. i will show your video to others so that they will see on their own how evil this man is.
ELamarWatkins 2 years ago
Satan has deceived Johnny Robertson in a BIG WAY - the Pharisee's would have been proud to have Johnny on their team
Matt. 23:27
"Woe to you, Pharisees and Johnny Robertson, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men's bones and everything unclean."
Matt. 23:13
"But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, and hypocrites like Johnny Robertson, because you shut off the kingdom of heaven from people.
veritassword 2 years ago
It is funny how Johnny Robertson wont debate this man and said he may give him a little bit of time, but yet is getting so upset that Pastor Jennings wont debate him as he says? like i said before Johnny robertson wants popularity, he only wants PJ because he is well known but PJ would eat him alive. He talks alot on cyber space but never once came to PJ. I mean come on 2431 frankford ave philadelphia pa he aint hard to find if it was that serious.
striving4holiness7 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Johnny Robertson and PreacherNorm are running neck and neck in the 154th Annual Alexander Campbell Memorial False-Teaching Mule Race; and regardless of which one eventually takes the crown THEY ARE BOTH LOSERS, unless they repent of their comfortably ARROGANT, PRIDEFUL, SMART-MOUTHED, SMART-ATTITUDE, SECTARIAN, SUPREMELY IGNORANT FALSE TEACHING!!
Both have more interest in CHURCH OF CHRIST DOGMA than TRUTH; but is it any wonder, for the Holy Spirit resides in neither of their poor souls!!
dickiebow2003 2 years ago 2
Wow, if I were you (Kwerky) I would not have posted this video. You informally got owned.
JonathanDWhitehead 2 years ago
And your friends list includes members of the same cult that this video is confronting.
So yours is not the most objective of commentary, aye?
kwerky 2 years ago
Cult? You're the one who separated yourself from the Church of Christ.
I'd hate to stand before Christ on Judgment day and tell him that his church is a cult.
JonathanDWhitehead 2 years ago
You are not saying anything that has not already been said, by many people over the centuries who dared insist that their understanding of God was of such perfection that they must lord it over others.
Indeed, you are not far removed from the mindset of the Taliban.
A hundred million graves and more of those butchered in the name of God, testify against your "one true doctrine".
kwerky 2 years ago
Jesus said "I am the way, the truth, and the life, no man cometh unto the Father but by me." John 14:6
"There is one body and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling. One Lord, one faith, one baptism."
Ephesians 4:4-5
Jesus said "Ye shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free." John 8:32
Are you protesting the words or Christ?
Yes, the Christian understanding of God is THE truth. I suggest you become one.
JonathanDWhitehead 2 years ago
Your cult demonstrates nothing but hate. Not any Christ-like love or humility.
So how can you convince ANYONE that you are really in and of Christ at all?
kwerky 2 years ago
Debating Johnny Robertson and JonathonDWhitehead is like debating a SACK OF HAMMERS! That's why the Baptists and others have quit debating Johnny; and that's why JDWhirehead quit responding to my comments - he could not handle the thruth of scripture....so let's take Matthew's advise - "Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine." Matthew 7:6
veritassword 2 years ago
good effort dude,
ur videos are awsome
madjaime2007 2 years ago
JonathonDWhitehead only knows 2 verses in the NT - Rom. 16:16 & Acts 2:38His WHOLE theology and EVERYTHING he knows about the Bible is built around those 2 verses.
Most people read and thoughtfully interpret holy scripture, and subsequently develop a sound, truthful, and consistent theology. The Church of Christ denomination interprets scripture OUT OF their ERRANT theological BIAS - that's why it makes more sense to have an intelligent and meaningful discussion with a man-hole cover.
veritassword 2 years ago
so what we do anything we want now. there are no boundries????????//
tonglongkid 2 years ago
Oh, there are boundaries. But I trust God to set them in place, whatever they might be, and not Johnny Robertson and his "Church of Christ in Name Only".
The key difference being, that God is ever merciful and will be graceful if we do wrong... whereas mere men like Johnny Robertson and his cult, have no mercy whatsoever. Or love for others either, for that matter.
And they are in no position to dictate what God is and isn't.
kwerky 2 years ago
kwerky,
I find it strange that you wanted to DEBATE Johnny Robertson and now someone is willing to debate and you have repeatedly failed to back up your positions with Bible verses.
I am just a christian. I do not know Johnny Robertson and I certainly do not know you. I am willing, however, to have an open and honest Bible discussion.
I am still waiting for the verses where the Eunuch was clearly baptized for a good conscience. And the verse where Peter says baptism is a symbol.
jaidee79 3 years ago
I already gave you your answer, earlier this week. If you do not want to accept it well, there's nothing I can do to convince you otherwise.
kwerky 3 years ago
What was your answer?? Read it myself???
I read those verses again and again and I d not see where the Eunuch was baptized for a clear conscience. The reason is it is NOT THERE. You aere right there is nothing you can do about it, I would love to see you change your position in light of the evidence though.
Anyway, I hope you keep studying and asking questions. There is nothing wrong with that but I think we need to be careful of our attitudes.
jaidee79 3 years ago
So your grace that you say Jonny doesnt teach mean that mormons, catholics, Jahova's witnesses saved.
Bro I give all the respect to jonny. He was being humble and wasnt yelling. Dont go to jonny, go to the website of any church of christ website for the complete doctrine.
jonyrock777 3 years ago
I was surprised Johnny made no comment on his show when the Sheik N from VA continued repeating naming a person he said Johnny had sex with.
scribblealot 3 years ago
jaidee79,
Why don't you read the verses for yourself, and then THINK about them on your own, with the brain that God gave you, instead of responding with whatever Johnny Robertson or whoever else it is, is telling you to believe?
Just as it cannot be demonstrated that their "Church of Christ", as they practice it, is not to be found in the Bible at all.
kwerky 3 years ago
What verse says the Eunuch was baptized for a good conscience?? Oh, you don't have one.
What's that? Peter did not say the water was a symbol of anything, in 1 Peter 3. Well, by all means resort to slamming the church and accuse me of being brainwashed.
I was hoping for an honest debate. I do not know Johnny Roberetson. He seems to be a little harsh but that does not mean that what he says is not true. I am sure the Pharisees felt Jesus treated them unfairly a lot.
jaidee79 3 years ago
The fact that you used the word "debate", tells me that it is likely that you come from Robertson's camp.
kwerky 3 years ago
I live in Kentucky!!
jaidee79 3 years ago
So rjohson, you are saying that Jesus will be graceful on this, but not with anything else?
You are literally preaching another Christ.
And there is no biblical evidence, at all, that a lack of baptism will condemn one to Hell. Not a single verse that says "be dunked or be damned".
Salvation is for those who seek it and understand they need God's grace. Not by any works of our own, lest we should boast. That includes baptism.
You only demand baptism, because you want control over people.
kwerky 3 years ago
I feel you have made a error in trying to "rightfully divide the word of truth."
Show you in the Bible where it says be baptized or you go to hell?? I admit that I cannot do that. I can show you, however, where baptism saves. If baptism saves you (1 peter 3:21) doesn't it make sense that you are not saved without it?
Is baptism really a work? I mean, can I boast about being baptized?? What a silly idea that is, you submit to baptism. IE... it is something that is done TO YOU not BY U.
jaidee79 3 years ago
If there is a baptism, it is that of the Holy Spirit. Not of physical water.
If it is of water then Christ's work on the cross was not finished at all, and we are adding to that work of our own accord.
kwerky 3 years ago
In Acts chapter 10 Cornelius had the Holy spirit fall upon him and he was COMMANDED to be baptized in water. The ethiopian Eunuch was clearly baptized in water in Acts 8.1Pe 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
Peter says water baptism saves us.Seems you have either misunderstood or dismiissed wehat the bible says concerning WATER baptism
jaidee79 3 years ago
How could the Holy Spirit fall on Cornelius if he was not already saved at that point, before baptism?
The eunuch had also clearly believed and wanted to be baptized out of good conscience, not because it was REQUIRED of him so that he might be saved.
And if WATER baptism DOES save us, then what about ALL the folks who have died WITHOUT water baptism, though they have come to Christ and accepted His grace?
Again, you are adding a work that we do, to the already finished work of Christ.
kwerky 3 years ago
The Eunuch CLEARLY believed and wanted to be be baptized out of a good conscience?? What verse was that in? I do not see where the scripture says that, and you accuse me of adding to the word??
Why was Cornelius COMMANDED to be baptized in water by Peter? I could understand Peter merely suggesting it if it was not required.
How could the Holy Spirit fall on cornelius before he was saved? The way it did in ACTS 10.
I could not help but notice you have not touched 1PETER3:20-21. WHY?
jaidee79 3 years ago
Well, 1 Peter 3 answers all of the questions that you raised...
In verse 21, Peter EXPLICITLY says that baptism is a pledge "of good conscience toward God" and that the water is a SYMBOL of what ACTUALLY saves: the finished resurrection of Jesus Christ.
How you are getting from this that water baptism is an absolute REQUIREMENT for salvation, I haven't a clue. But Peter could not be more clear: that water is a symbol, not a saving device in and of itself.
kwerky 3 years ago
Q: why would one have an answer of a good conscience toward God?
A: B/c they obeyed that which the Lord commanded them to do.
Water a symbol? I'll be the first to tell you that the water saves no one, and I am a member if the Church of Christ.
hkrhodes123 2 years ago
The fact is - if it (baptism alone) did save us I would literally take people by force and baptize them, throw them in the water, fully covered.
What saves us (mankind) is obedience - doing that which the Lord commands, Jn. 14:15. The Lord commanded baptism, so therefore, when one is baptized he or she is obeying the Lord's command and in so doing will be able to answer with a good conscience toward God - I obeyed your command - I was baptized.
hkrhodes123 2 years ago
You forgot to say the part about : "...Baptism doth also now save us..." But that does not really fit your argument
1Pe 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
Peter says baptism saves us and is " the answer of a good conscience toward God.
And here in 1peter 3 Peter says that water is a symbol of ....??? Please give verse.
jaidee79 3 years ago
BTW, please do not forget to show where the Bible CLEARLY says the Eunuch was baptized for a good conscience... I cannot believe you wrote that after accusing mr of adding to the word...lol
jaidee79 3 years ago
Man I just read your last post again and you have made even more unfounded infrences. Peter says EXPLICITY that baptism is a pledge of ""of good conscience toward God" AND that the water is a SYMBOL of what ACTUALLY saves
In what verse did Peter say water was a symbol of anything??
I think you are sincere and I can appreciate that but I think you need to quit making all of these inferences and go by what it says. Not what you wished or thought it said.
Thank you.
jaidee79 3 years ago
Chris you made your self look like a complete fool. here is the verse johhy robertson wouldhave given you. read it carefully it shopws that if you are not baptize then you are going to hell. this is jesus speaking.
Mark 16:15 & 16 "Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." (meaning if you dont believe' then obvioulsy you wont get baptized) so you will go to hell.
rjohson 3 years ago
And if it is impossible for a person to be baptized after salvation, then that person is going to Hell?
If a person repents and turns to Christ, and then is killed in an automobile accident before getting to baptismal water, that person is thus damned forever?
Are you seriously telling us this?
Why have you made God so small, that He cannot redeem a person unless they are able to do a physical act?
The "God" of Johnny Robertson is petty. Just as Robertson is.
God is much bigger than that.
kwerky 3 years ago
why dont you be realstic, obviously if a person had not gotten a chance to be baptized after accepting jesus; sureely jesus can understand their predicament, but it you repent and have ample opportunity to become baptized; and say the hell with getting bapize then thats were you will end up in hell
rjohson 3 years ago
This dude chris is a idiot johnny handle this situation with tact and class.
rjohson 3 years ago
So sayeth a fellow cult member.
kwerky 3 years ago