Plaid Cymru call for 'fresh start' for Wales

[taffiadon]

Monmouth is a Welsh county (the new one and the historical one) However, due to how the English legal system is structured it came under Oxford legal circut and therefore legally was treated as an English county after annexation (meaning it sent two MPs to parliament rather than one). The campaign for an English Parliament is a stunt more than anything, the Welsh have greater claims to the land on the English side of the border than vice versa (but that is ignored).

[elamite66]

As a foreigner from New York City I am courious about the question of Welsh independence is that what Plaid Cymru ultimately wants? or is 'devolution" acceptable? I saw on the internet that there is, I'm sure a very small group, a party calling for "self determination for Monmouth" is that for real and what do they want to become part of England as they were for centuries or independence or autonomy within Wales?Curiouser and Curiouser! Independence for the Basque Nation, Corsica, Flanders etc

[TheMyVew]

I HAVE ALWAYS VOTED OF PLAID CYMRU- UP UNTIL NOW!!!

I AM NOW A ''FREEMAN-ON-THE-LAND'' IN COMMAN LAW & I DO NOT RECOGNIZE ANY STATUTORY ACTS PUT IN PLACE BY THE UNITED KINGDOM GOVERNMENT!

DO NOT THINK PLAID.. ''THINK AS A FREE HUMAN BEING'' AS A ''FREEMAN-ON-THE-LAND'', WHO IS UNDER NO CONTRACT WITH THE GOVERMENT TO PLAY TAX OR INSURAENCE!

PEACE

[YARROWS]

Wales is an insignificance,If English or Scots are abroad and say they are from these countries people know where they are,but the Welsh have to eventually say there British because nobody has herd of them.

[colin2100]

As a welsh-australian I cannot understand why Welsh nationalism isn't stronger. Our country was forcibly taken by the english in the middle-ages and we've been under their yoke ever since. As a people who have a unique cultural and linguistic identity I believe we should be free to determine our own destiny and future. At the end of the day the english will look after themselves first, our considerations, aspirations and goals will always come second. Simple as that.

[MegaLolburger]

@colin2100 I simply don't give a shit whether we become independant or not. Unlike the Irish (for example), Im not going to bitch and whine about things that took place hundreds and hundreds of years ago before anyone today was even alive, and try to make out that stuff like that still happens. Fighting over dirt is pathetic, enough blood and time has been wasted on that throughout human history, Independant or not we still have our freedom, and a better way of life than most get.

[ColossalCollapse]

@MegaLolburger bitch and whine? We won the most of Ireland by force and hardwork. Hundreds of years ago? 90 actually and if you want to include the Troubles in N.Ireland less then a decade. I agree too much blood yes.Too many Welsh and Scots are like you. You have to see the bigger picture. What benifits Wales in being British? We have a shite goverment in power now but at least they are Irish. Globalisation isgoing to fast small countrys like Wales are vital in my opinion.

[MegaLolburger]

@ColossalCollapse Sure and include the times during the potato famine and before, I have even heard some Irish say 800 years ago, which is ridiculous we were under a different rule back then,. Whats there to benefit from either way? History is history, Wales isn't a country, s a pncpalit and has ben for hundeds of years, but either way under British rule we have freedom, the same we would have if we weren't unde Brit rule.

[MegaLolburger]

@ColossalCollapse Principality** Keyboard is running out of juice.

[ColossalCollapse]

@MegaLolburger last time i checked wales was a nation. Personal freedom and human rights and all that crack ya sure but Wales as a nation at the moment dosnt control its own destiny. imajine a welsh republic or free state you could decice on anything you want to do, involment in Iraj, School system, Currencyect. Wales puts a lot more into the big UK than it gets out budget and finance wise.

[MegaLolburger]

@ColossalCollapse Nope Its a principality, we have about as much power as an American state, near enough. School system? What about it? Our average IQ is 100 and something so I'd say our schools are doing well, Involvement in Iraq, the British army pulled out last year or the year before cant remember, I intend to join the army anyway, Currency The pound is doing very well, worth more than the Euro and the American dollar.

[ColossalCollapse]

@MegaLolburger megaman I agree with u. Im jus saying it would be grand for Wales to decide its own affairs rather than it being decided by foreigners in London with a few Welsh included. I cant see Wales becoming fully independent state unless the whole population wants it and im sure ye wud get it. The last great push for small sovergintys was after the USSR fell and before dat twas b4 or after WW2. But look to the world Britishness is Englishness i cant say anymore. Cymru Am Byth.

[colin2100]

@ColossalCollapse I totally agree with you ColossalCollapse, Wales cannot be independent without the entire population wanting it. As long as major decisions about our countries future are decided by westminster the Welsh people will continue to suffer under second rate health services, bad roads etc. Bottom line, Welsh People, Welsh Decisions.

[ROCKSOLID19]

Rhagrithiwr

[TheEurozhongguo]

He has a Welsh name, but he talks as though he'd been taught to speak English in Buckingham Palace. Posh, posh talk. .

[onfiremusicman]

Ms Jones presents her case very clearly, but it seems to fall so short of the truth. I dislike the way she portrays the main British parties -- it is almost as though she believes that they are incapable of making good decisions for Wales. Weren't David Lloyd George and Aneurin Bevan the most influential politicians in our Parliament? Of course. Plaid's only reason for being in existence is to lead Wales towards independence -- something that Wales will never vote for.

[maxfm83]

@onfiremusicman In many ways, the London based parties have failed Wales.

Westminster has focused all it's time (and our money) investing in SE England - pouring hundreds of billions into high speed rail, cross-rail, DLR, T5 and the Olympics to name a few.

While in Wales we've not had a single penny of investment in any major infrastructure project- yet we suffer from same high tax rate as central London. Is it any wonder the lack of opportunities makes us the poorest country in Western Europe?

[onfiremusicman]

@maxfm83 I accept that much investment is poured into London. But considering that the south east region provides a large bulk of Britain's fiscal expenditure, this does make sense. We have to remember that London alone has a population of around seven and a half million inhabitants -- more than twice the size of Wales. I agree, however, that it is saddening that Wales still does not have a good rail service between North and South. The Olympics are a British event,

[onfiremusicman]

with a special added tax for Londoners. There is a benefit for our athletes, as well as for the London region. We do have a particularly high tax rate, but we have more proportional investment than many other regions in the UK. If we were to become independent, we would loose £6 billion which is provided by the rest of the UK -- primarily due to a loss in fiscal funding from the south east financial hub. Undoubtedly, we need more funding as we are a particularly poor region

[onfiremusicman]

Economically, Plaid's sums do not add up, and considering the state of small countries such as Ireland and Iceland following the recession, I think the majority would agree that Wales is stronger remaining in the Union. I completely understand that some would willingly bear this risk in order to become independent, mainly on the grounds of identity and cultural autonomy -- but I think the majority of the Welsh, including myself, feel that their identity is indeed fully Welsh and British.

[onfiremusicman]

We cannot ignore the fact that around thirty per cent of the Principality are English born. And yet many of our English inhabitants have become an integral part of Welsh life. The majority of our English friends, and most of us Welsh, will not vote for independence given the choice. Remember that only just over 50% voted for the Assembly -- can you imagine any more voting for independence? I love my Plaid friends, but on independence we will remain at loggerheads.

[maxfm83]

@onfiremusicman The aspiration shared by a lot of people for having self determination in Wales has nothing to do with ones nationality or place of birth. We're not the BNP and anyone looking to contribute to the country is welcome to call Wales their home.... I myself am part Welsh, Irish, English (with a French girlfriend). Though you're wrong saying most people here consider themselves british... google 'Welsh identity 87%' - only 13% consider themselves british & Welsh (or just british).

[maxfm83]

But, the aspiration for self rule is based on a belief it's better to sort out our own problems rather than waiting for someone else to do it on our behalf - it's wanting to be in control of our own destiny for ourselves & future generation.... It's a damning legacy of London rule will be that Portugal, Slovenia & Cyprus now all have a officially a higher standard of living than Wales!

[maxfm83]

It's not a case of there just being more investment in London to Wales - There's been NO INVESTMENT in Wales in my entire lifetime! In the whole country we have 1 dual carriageway motorway, 3 unelectrified, unlinked trainlines and 1 airport whose only route for business is KLM to Amsterdam!

[maxfm83]

In the last 10 years alone UK money has paid for London to enjoy HS1, Cross rail, DLR, Jubilee line extension, multi-billion upgrades on both East & West coast mainline upgrades, T5, Croydon Tramline, M25 widening, new Wembley, Olympics, etc etc - London's built herself a truly world class infrastructure, even before HS2.

[maxfm83]

In a one size fits all taxation system, is it any wonder business and private capital flows to where it's easiest to make more money? Is it any wonder that, despite year on year Wales having a consistently higher school leaving grades, there is a distinct lack of opportunities here? We're crippled by 3rd world infrastructure and a corporate tax rate 3 times higher than our neighbours in Ireland! (who were themselves former UK members suffering under London's one size fits all policy).

[maxfm83]

I see the future of this island having a Scandinavian style model, where on a personal level we share a unique friendship and bond that makes sure we'll stand shoulder to shoulder in times of need, yet with each distinct nation free to pursue what it considers best for their respective people - 250 years ago we all benefited from the union, but the worlds changed and the we'll never, ever be a world player again... so what is the point in pooling our sovereignty in all it gets us is poorer?

[onfiremusicman]

@maxfm83 Hey, thanks for your response. I enjoy having conversations with Plaid supporters. However, the majority of my nationalist friends concede that their reasons for independence are primarily cultural. I have seen the statistics that you mention, and believe that they are clearly an indication of identity -- but when filling in forms, I imagine that very few would bother to fill in both identities in the first place, I know that I would simply put Welsh.

[onfiremusicman]

@maxfm83 A study published nine years ago by Robert Andersen (CREST, Oxford University) entitled 'National Identity and Independence Attitudes: Minority Nationalism in Scotland and Wales' published figures from a survey which showed that 17.9% saw themselves as being Welsh, but not British -- the rest said that they did feel British to some extent. My statement is not necessarily wrong as you suggest. I concede that statistics and surveys are confusing on this issue.

[onfiremusicman]

@maxfm83 I agree that we need better infrastructure, though I doubt it is of 'third world' standard as you suggest. Of course, Wales would be able to determine its own destiny if independent -- but surely devolution can provide this, especially if full legislative powers are devolved. We already have free prescriptions and cheaper higher education than England, while Scotland has free higher education (first degrees). If we were to become independent, we would loose £6 billion annually.

[onfiremusicman]

@maxfm83 This is because we receive proportionately more than we contribute to the UK's budget. A £6 billion reduction in our budget would mean around a third of a reduction in our budget, according to 2010 figures. While the Government has invested in London's transport -- funded in part by London's population -- these investments create a stabler more profitable capital, leading to a bigger budget for the rest of the UK, thus benefiting Wales.

[onfiremusicman]

@maxfm83 (Please read from the lowest comment upwards) Again, I do concede that we do need a stronger transport infrastructure in Wales, and thanks to Labour, we have a devolved Assembly through which we can discuss these issues. I believe Plaid cares about these issues, and I look forward to hearing their suggestions. Thanks for your response and discussion -- Cymru am byth.

[maxfm83]

@onfiremusicman Well - the I'd start by doing this....

once we're independent I'd issue national bonds to the people where people can invest in the country (bit like the Series E war Bond the US issued) - these would be available to ordinary citizens as well as businesses and let people take a personal stake in the future of our country. I'd half the corporation tax to 14% too and look at mandatory community part time work for those on benefits.

[maxfm83]

I'd then setup 5-6 areas of special interest in strategic parts of the country, each specialising in a key industry; pharmaceuticals, software development, fishing, etc. There would not just be tax breaks but subsidies available to businesses in those fields setting up there.... as we become specialists in these areas tax breaks would slowly be withdrawn - though hopefully by then the areas could stand on their own.

[maxfm83]

I'd scale back our military commitment.... obviously no trident, no foreign invasions... no nato? Though would look to sign a defence & friendship pact with the other countries on the british isles.

[porridgeeveryday]

2nd mississippi !