@zlutaopoce Alll assault rifles are based on ortary locker. WWI Lewis machinegun too. Vz. 58 has open bar, and is closer to STG 44 than AK. Its cross betweem P38 pistol and ZB 26 machinegun.
We were part of SSSR so the influence of look is visible. But thats all. All other things are different. And if you think AK-47 is simple try to disasemble vz 58. Had it in 8secs. Anyway we are replacing it with CZ 805. Check that one hell of a gun.
@GunWebsites Maybe you need to keep learning, I don't call the MR1 the italian AR-15 because its black and has a pistol grip. They have about as much in common as a vz58 and an AK.
Hmm. I seem to have killed discussion here. Pity - its a bit strange to go writing essays on youtube, I know, but i wanted to be comprehensive with what i thought here. Hope someone finds it useful
I used to agree, but I am so annoyed with all the internet know it alls attempting to correct a non-mistake that I may just go on a campaign to re-AK the dang Vz58 just to piss em off
@GunWebsites Lol well I did laugh. Btw, i dont mind your calling it the 'Czech AK' in the video because I understand that is the best way to get people to understand the purpose of this gun, and you obviously do know its not an AK. I might call the M16 the 'American AK' (or more likely, the 'American Dragunov' if i were to be more fair to accuracy :)) to a USSR soldier who had nothing else to compare it to as well.
I was responding to those who did claim it was an actual derivative of the AK
to the final VZ 58 design do you understand that this is a unique development based on the STG 45, walther p38 and previous czech guns - with very limited cues from the AK 47.
When my father served in the Army (conscription) he was told as much, and he was further told that his superiors, who had the access to FN Fal, M16 and AK - that what they had as members of the Czechoslovakian armed forced was one of the best assault rifle in the world - and that it was not an ak. So why treat it as one
And those are the parts that MOST resemble an AK! So even those parts that took a cue from the AK were completely redesigned. When it comes to the operation and internals - it rapidly becomes clear this is not an AK and shouldnt be treated as one.
Only by tracing its history through the emergence of the concept of an assault rifle version of the VZ 52 in 1946 to the start of design work in 1951 to prototypes CZ 515 and 522 in the early-mid 50's to the SA 56 redesign for 7.62x39
Very long digression, I know, but the bottom line is that while many parts of the external appearance of this gun DO resemble an AK, and must have been taken from its design - the curved magazine (the prototypes CZ 515 and 522 have straight, STG 45 like ones) shape of the reciever and stocks - all of these are different to the AK - the curve and magazine is different, the stock is at a steeper angle, the iron sights are different and the reciever differs except to aesthetics.
This secretive withholding of designs, lack of free trade and sharing and restrictive export markets were not fully appreciated by the West, who often viewed the USSR as one entity (nevermind the 'UNION' in the name) - which is why its dissolution came as quite a surprise in 89. The West also had limited information on these designs - so any variation or resemblence tended to get lumped - like AKM, AK74 and this VZ 58 all being 'AK 47'. View the USSR as fractured, and it starts to make sense.
The bottom line is that its no surprise the VZ 58 was a unique development, because so much else in Czechoslovakia under the Soviet union was. The Czechs neither liked nor regarded highly Soviet design and manufacturing - more with contempt, and wherever possible set out to make their own. Even if they had liked it, inefficient allocative state planning wouldve forced the Czechs to make much of their own goods anyway.
The goods chosen were often the worst - like Trabant - but which could be made en masse, and there were allocated quotas which were rather arbitrarily distributed to the various Soviet states. So either you made your own goods, or you got crap 'for export' goods - many jokes arose about 'our comrades from the GDDR have produced another wonder good'. The Soviet Union didnt share nearly as much as you would imagine.
Another thing to consider is that manufacturing and exports were very limited and compartmentalized in the soviet union. There was no free trade like in the West - countries used what they produced, which suited the Czechs since they produced their own TV's, furniture, cars, trucks, food - you name it - but in other places, like Russia, quotas of exported goods, such as from CZ, were very valued. When something was exported, it was done in a top down fashion - someone made a choice on it.
Not only that, but believe it or not she was extremely restricted in the places she could visit in Russia. She had to stick to the tour group and was not allowed contact with common Russians - almost as if she were a visiting dignitary. She was treated like a VIP. Things were not open in the USSR, and not in ways you would expect. It does not surprise me that designs were withheld from the VZ 58 program - the Brits dont send the US harrier specs either, and the USSR was even more secretive
Russian arms production, whatever the opinions of the Czechs or West, did turn out some very nice designs and effective war industry. But taken as a whole the Soviet economy was terrible, particularly so in Russia. Moscow starved in the mid 80's because food was not distributed from warehouses and rotted there. When my mother visited Moscow from Czechoslovakia in the early 80's, she was SHOCKED at the terrible quality of life and availability of goods. There were big differences in the USSR
In turn the Czechs really didnt hold a very high regard of Soviet industry throughout their time in the Soviet Union. Soviet industry was often compartmentalized, and in those nations which had been forced to industrialize from a rural agricultural base, particularly Russia through Stalin, it was top down and ineffective. There was a reason Marx advocated communism only on already industrialized capitalist nations more akin to Czechoslovakia than Russia of the early 20th Century.
Talking about whether Czechs make good guns is missing a major point. Czechoslovakia was long an economy under the influence of Germany, and its manufacturing was far closer to it than any other Soviet state or Russia's centralized, stalinized industy. It was THE major arms exporter of the interwar years, with 25% of the world market. Its industry and arms were a vital prize for both German early war planning and Soviet strategy. Its arms production was obviously up to snuff.
When you do that here, one thing becomes clear - the Czechs clearly did not wish to use the AK. They considered the design, but did not hold it in very high regard since they clearly chose to use so little of it. They were far more impressed by the STG 45 and walther p38 and their own earlier designs and thought that they could do better than the AK, which they certainly did. Can it then be considered a development of the AK when it so blatantly flaunted the soviet standardization of the AK?
No design is in isolation, and being of the Soviet bloc this gun was bound - maybe even forced by the soviets to resemble - to be taken for an AK 47 development. But its a bit like saying that the M16 was a development of the AK since it came after it. Its a silly example but the point is that even if a design comes after and must have been influenced by another design, you have to actually look at the design direction and cues taken, and from what other designs.
The other point and it goes in with the first is that the gun was never meant to be an AK or use the intermediate 7.62x39mm AK cartridge. Only in 1956 with the SA 56 prototype did it even begin using the 7.62x39 cartridge - because the Soviets were now forcing them to. Now i never said they ignored the AK 47 but it is obvious from the prototypes CZ 515 and 522 that they simply did not think the AK 47 was the best design direction. As I said - they took a LOT more from the walther p38 and STG45
On the cartridge point there are two things of note. For one, the fact that czechpoint says they didnt get the specs till 1956. I agree that its strange so little cooperation occured but remember that it was only 1957 when the change to the 7.62x39mm was FORCED on all soviet states. Thats why the czechs may have got the specs so late - they never planned to use the cartridge in the first place, but their own 7.62x45mm. The USSR was also not a simply entity and cooperation could be limited.
I wont say the Czechs make bad guns in all,yes some were pitiful but some are great.But it makes absolutely zero sence to say the VZ.58 wasnt even based slightly off the AK-47.Even the AK-47 musuem lists the VZ.58 known by another name of AK-47CZ.Not to mention I dont believe that the Czechs didnt get drawings of a cartridge that exsisted since 1943 13 years later in 1956.I strongly believe the Czechs took parts of the AK47 and the STGW44 and cobbled their own design that was supperior to the AK
Secondly why would the soviets hold off giving the Czechs drawings and samples of the 7.62x39 cartridge when Czechoslovika was a soviet satellite state since being liberated from Nazi Germany after the war in 1946. You telling me they with held from their own satellite state from 1946 till 1956 a total of 10 years after the war and 13 years since the cartridge was put into service? I do not believe that and would have to insist that Czechpoint cite their sources so I can look into that.
Heres another important point from the Czech point history page.
"In the first quarter of 1956, the Soviets had finally given the Czech designers drawings and samples of 7.62x39 mm cartridges. Waiting for these drawings and samples delayed the development of the new prototype assault rifle. The first prototype to use this cartridge was the model Sa-56."
If they didnt even have accurate drawings for the cartridges, its a bit hard to argue they had detailed schematics of the AK 47.
Not to mention the page SPECIFICALLY states that it was only in 1956 and the SA 56 that the prototypes began using 7.62x39mm. How on earth could they be based on the AK 47 if that gun did not even use the czech 7.62x45mm? Arguing that the SA 56 and onward were not based on earlier prototypes but instead the AK 47 is also pointless, since the VZ 58 innards clearly do not resemble one. Pretty hard to resist the conclusion that the VZ 58 was based off a unique development of the STG 45
@irR4tiOn4L, Really so what are you trying to say? Surely I hope your not saying the 7.62x39mm cartridge wasnt designed till 56 because if so that is wrong since the 7.62x39 cartridge been in service and in production from 1943 to today. Now on the point about drawings, why would the Czechs get drawing samples of the 7.62x39mm cartridge just in 1956 when the cartridge exsisted since 1943?
I wish i could post pictures - czechpoint usa history of vz 58 page - specifically look at the prototypes - CZ 515 and CZ 522. They look NOTHING like an AK 47. They look VERY much like an STG 45 off which they were obviously being party designed. This was in 1951 - yet the AK 47 appearance and innards were being largely ignored.
Maybe the final VZ 58 looked like an AK for Soviet pride. But to the extent it was based on its prototypes, those prototypes were very much based off the STG's.
Its just like the whole Cz.82 pistol, the Soviets wanted the Czechs to get rid of the 7.62 tokarov round and use the 9mm makarov round. Instead of using the soviet Makarov pistol they designed their own pistol which was supperior but still weaker than the pistol the Soviets made the Czechs get rid of. I am not trying to down play Czech design, I am part Czech myself but I give credit where its due and I hate to say it but the CZ.58 is based off the AK which is based off the STGW44.
@Milner62 Based very very loosely. The Czechs started designing this gun quite early, and explicitly so off the STG 44 and 45 - of course they didnt ignore AK 47, but they obviously didnt like it enough to use most of it either.
The point is - they wanted to take a different approach and they did. It doesnt make sense to force an 'AK 47 derivative' moniker on their gun - thats not what they did
If it posted the link I posted is a Kalashnikov Musuem and even they say the CZ-58 or AKA AK47CZ is an AK derivative. They also to go on to say
"Czech sources say otherwise:
"Though externally the CZ-58 appears to be just another AK-47/AKM clone, the CZ-58 is internally a very different weapon from the AK. Though it too is gas-operated, the operating system is very different, and apart from the magazines, almost no CZ-58 parts are interchangeable with AK parts." "
@GunWebsites I think his point has to do with the distinction that it was the Czechs, not slovaks, that produced these guns. Those points of manufacture are now in the CZ republic, though the time and entity that manufactured these was indeed Czechoslovakia.
@day10020 lol and UK is just some island! CZ was major arms exporter before WWII which is why it was the only country allowed to keep its own gun other than AK and why it was important to both Germany and USSR. Its also central european, not eastern
@weoponmakerpro Trainig rifle it is for war is the same but rifle is completely black and have better surface .Little bit more quality.No others differents.
Rifle is Czechoslovakian but made in Czech part of Czechoslovakia.
Yes the Vz.58 is its own gun which is built better than an AK-47 but in the end its based off the AK-47. I mean its not hard to see that they took basically the AK-47 design and turned it on its head by shortening the piston for more reliability, as well as going with a StGw44 based action which gave a larger ejection port which helped reduce the AK-47 risk of a spent casing getting jammed.Now if your AK magazine doesnt fit I dont know what to say.The musuem says Czech sources told them it does
and as far as where it comes from that the AK-47 mag will fit and that the Vz.58 is based off the Ak47 both came from the AK-47 Kalashnikov Musuem virtual tour. This musuem goes to say that the Vz.58 which is known as the AK47CZ is like the german StGw44 as an assault rifle and not an AK but it is still a AK derivative being based off the AK with the StGw44 based action. This musuem also states Czech sources site aside from the magazines almost no parts interchange with the AK.Some actually do
@Milner62 now if you want to not belive me stating what a Kalashnikov musuem says about the AK family including the Vz.58 which is based off the AK-47 and belive what some wiki article says go ahead. It still doesnt change the fact the Czechs took the AK-47 as a basis of their VZ.58 and heavily modified it. Short stroke piston, StGw44 based action, ect. If you cant understand that the Czechs based their gun off the Ak-47 and modified it like they did well then I cant help you.
@Milner62 Just out of interest, what is your source for this?
As far as i know it was a modified VZ 52 to chamber the intermediate 7.62x39 round (no doubt dictated by Soviets), not a modified AK 47. That is reflected in the fact that exactly zero parts beside the bullet are exchangeable between a VZ 58 and AK 47. Again, this is obviously in line with the fact that Czechs designed their own guns.
Now id love to know what you are using for a source to suggest it is a modified AK 47.
@irR4tiOn4L Also, i should point out the CZ 522, an earlier Czech assault rifle similar to the STG 44 and 45. These can be considered the origins of the VZ 58, although the AK 47 also had an influence of course.
Just as the AK can be considered the product of earlier weapons such as the STG 44 but is not a copy of that design, the VZ 58 is its own design, not an AK 47.
@irR4tiOn4L Czechpoint usa's 'history of the vz 58' sums up the development history of this gun, and just how little it had to do with the AK 47. Given that is a page the Czechs have specifically set up to inform gun enthusiasts likely such as many of those commenting, id like to know why some continue to insist its an AK against the better judgement of its creators. Perhaps their world view doesnt support another assault rifle
@irR4tiOn4L, It is a modified AK.They took designs the AK had and modified them.For instance the gas piston is a shot stroke but on the Ak its a long stroke, the action of the rifle was heavily based off the STG 44 than the AK 47. The AK and the Vz.58 bear some resemblance because guess what the Czechs were a soviet satillite state and they had to follow what the Soviets wanted. Btw check out the link I will try to post in a reply to this one.Down on the page it lists the VZ.58 with the AKs
If it posts thats the exact page where under the section with Photo8-9 it says
"Third from the top is Czech CZ-58 gun (a.k.a. AK47CZ) which native appellation translates as plain "assault rifle" (just like famous Nazi StGw44 - Sturmgewehr stands for "Assault Rifle" in German) and does not bear any AK in the name - still, it is apparently the AK derivative."
@Milner62 The problem with that approach is that the AK itself would be seen as an STG 44 clone - which happens to be what the VZ 58 is more closely based on. The STG 44 itself is based on earlier experimental assault rifles, but can be credited as launching the class. Since the VZ 58 was specifically designed from the STG 44 and 45 - and early prototypes of the VZ 58 looked a LOT like the STG 44/45 - why should it be 'AK clone'? More accurate would be to say the AK and VZ 58 were STG 44 clones
@irR4tiOn4L But even that is very flawed, because these guns were not simple clones of the STG 44/45 either.
The most accurate thing you can say is that the VZ 58 was based on previous assault rifle, Walther P38 and other German and czech weapon developments and combined these into a unique gun that externally resembled the AK 47 and chambered the same ammunition, fulfilled the same intermediate assault rifle role which the STG 44 had pioneered but utilized distinctly czech manufacturing
@irR4tiOn4L, no one is talking about clones. We are talking about what they are based off of. I hope you know that based off of and clone are two different things right? Cause I get this alot where people think when you say based off such and such gun they get it in their head your saying its a carbon copy clone which was never said.
If that doesnt fit into 'our side, their side' Cold war ideology that is not a fault of reality. Reality saw many distinctions between west, central and eastern european nations, and between nations lumped together as 'west' or 'east'. The arms, designs, idealogies and methods employed often radically differed, even under the same umbrella, and goals were often very different. Few things were as they appeared and few explanations like cause belli for vietnam or panama true. Reality is messy.
@irR4tiOn4L, because the AK-47 came out in 1947, the VZ.58 came out in 1958. So the Ak 47 is based off the STGW44 which the VZ.58 is based off the Ak-47 loosely. Doesnt mean that the VZ.58 and the AK47 are the same gun. I never said they were the same gun. But they are both weapons that has a very soviet design. Lay a VZ.58 and an AK47 side by side they appear identical except for the fact that the VZ.58 has a short stroke gas piston so a shorter gas cylinder compared to the AK47.
@Milner62 : let's continue with number 2. It's logical, that vz 58 is based on Bren design, because Bren gun is licensed copy of ZB vz.26 Czechoslovakian Light machine gun from same factory as Vz 58 ... ( try wiki at least) 3. Based on Ak 47 means at least same type gas reloading system, same bolt type etc... now look at these parts of Vz. 58 (again at least in wiki is a nice picture of internals of Vz 58) and tell me, which part is similar to Ak 47? ..not a single one
@cubitko first off why does the bolt or pistol or reloading system has to be the same for the gun to be based off the AK-47. Do you know what based off of means? It means its a modified version. So what if the bolt and the gas piston is a short stroke and not the same as the AK-47. It is still based off the AK-47. Just like the internals are based off the StGw44. Next off the Vz58 isnt based on the Bren. I mean god man cant you tell the Bren feeds from the top when the Vz58 doesnt.
@cubitko I forgot to mention that I am not saying the Vz.26 and the Bren arent simmilar I am saying the Vz.26 wasnt licensed out to the english which they called the Bren. The english saw a Vz.26 and fired it and liked it so they took and based the Bren off the Vz.26. Now the Czech`s being a soviet satillite state at one time had alot of their own designs based off modified soviet weapons. The Vz.58 is one of them a heavily modified version of the Ak-47.
@GunWebsites, I know what you mean guy is jumping on me because I said the CZ (VZ) 58 is based off of and simmilar to the AK-47. It has the same gas piston but a shorter stroke than the AK-47 and Czech sources says the AK-47 mag will clip into an CZ-58. On top of all that the Kalashnikov Musuem online lists the CZ-58 as "AK47CZ" within the AK-47 family built by satillite soviet states. Which is true The CZ-82 is loosely based off the makarov but supperior. Same with the CZ58
But where Cougar is wrong is that the Soviet Union Licenced copies of the AK-47 out to 19 different countries and they were all known by different names. Even the CZ-58 is listed by the Kalashnikov musuem as a AK47CZ a Czech version of the AK47 but it doesnt have the AK47 internals,the internals are loosely based off the german StGw44 but even then it is its own design internally.Some parts interchange with the AK-47 but not all.
@Milner62 : I must disagree. Only part that interchange with AK-47 is 7,62x39 mm round. Seriously, internal parts of Vz 58 are totally different to the Ak-47's internals. Even AK-47 magazines doesn't fit to Vz 58. The only similarity between them is their appearence. Internals of Vz 58 are loosely based off the Czechoslovak/British BREN GUN design.
@cubitko So are you saying the Czech`s are wrong in saying that their own gun can use the Ak-47 magazine? After all that is what a AK musuem has listed for the VZ.58 which was in a display case with different versions of the AK-47.
Also the internals of the Vz58 is based off a german design with a Czech twist so not a Czech/British internal design. I know not many parts interchange between the Vz.58 and the AK.47 but some parts do interchange numerous Czech sources state that.
@cubitko, another thing, I stated in my orignal posts that the Vz.58 was based off the AK-47 but has different internals. A gun can be based off another gun but still have different parts. Lots of people think that a gun has to share all parts to be based off it but no, the design of the rifle is based off the AK.47 as you can tell by the modified gas piston which has a short stroke compared to the long stroke of the AK. The internals are based off a Czech version of the german StGw44.
@Milner62 : Well mate, let's make it correct. - 1. AK magazines doesn't fit into Vz. 58, you can trust me , I've got semi auto civil version of Vz. 58 and Ak 47 magazines doesn't fit to it... it's because off magazine release tab, which is located on left side , while on Ak 47 it's behind the magazine. I don't know , where did you read about interchangeability of magazines, but obvious, it's not true. 2. Vz 58 is based on Bren, to be honest it's scaled down Bren.
@cubitko I take it you are trying to say that the action is based off the Bren which is an english built gun in england which is of a tilting bolt action where as the Vz.58 is of a falling breechblock action. Next you are saying that the VZ. 26 and the Bren are the same that the English were licensed to build the VZ.26 called the Bren. But the Bren is a tilting bolt action where the Vz. 26 is a tilting breechblock action
Why did you bother saying that they that its another version of the AK47 in the first place?, there are no similaritys besides appearance, and round type. I actually prefer the Vz for reliability
Because only a concrete minded fool would insist that a few internal differences should be obvious to the whole world of people who hardly care at all about Czech guns..
@GunWebsites A FEW INTERNAL DIFFERENCES?, There is nothing that you could call the same besides the appearance. Nothing is interchangable. Don't you think its a better idea to educate people on the guns, rather than assume they are ignorant?
Before 30 seconds in the video I said almost everything you said in your comments.. you are just looking for something to argue about.. do yourself a favor and worry less about trivial crap like this
OK but this is not version of AK. This is absolutely different gun. I have both of them in my hands and if you compare them you can see no similarities. Only ironsights (because simplycity) and amunition (we was russia satelite state) are same. They ruined our pistol Vz52 as well (7.65 cartridge instead 9mm witch was builded for).
Sorry for my reaction but my people did piece of good work and everyone are talking only about kalashnikov. Including instruction vieos.
I understand and I agree, in fact thats what I say over and over in this video.
If you hang out with a country that makes the most prolific rifle in the world, then make a gun that looks almost the same (from a few feet away) to 90% of the people out there.. well, expect for your rifle to be confused with the other (more well known) one
@GunWebsites What a stupid thing to say. Do you really think the designers cared about how closely it resembled the AK? If they did, it probably wouldve been a conscious decision to resemble the AK to please and gain better chance for approval from the Soviets - not the opposite - to distinguish czech arms to untrained armchair soldiers!
@doprdeleneserme from your statement "we was" I take it your Czech, part Czech here but I have to say I have been looking at Czech made guns to add to my collection for a while now and have to say the soviets was the reason why the CZ or VZ 82 was made it was their idea to get the Czech`s away from the 7.62 caliber Tokarev cartridge in the Vz52 for the larger 9mm Makarov round. Only thing is they made the CZ82 pistol instead of using the soviet made Makarov pistol.
First sentence and I am pissed off ! OUR VZ. 58. ( Samopal vzor 58.).
ARE NOT AND NEVER WAS VERSION OF AK47.
This Automat ("samopal") was build from experience from second world war ! Its ancestor was german G43. First version of Vz.58 used diferent amunnition. After we became part of Soviet union we must adopt their ammo 7.62x39.
BUT WE WAS THE ONLY COUNTRY WITCH USED OWN BUILD WEAPON !!!
If you understood english you would know that the 6 words after the ones that upset you clarified the first statement for people who would react like you did
It is normal that the folding stock on mine need tool to fold and unfold ? Is the tension on the release button is adjustable because mine is very hard ?
Totally wrong autor, go to fuck with czechoslovak AK47. This is totally different gun, read about this gun! Czechoslovakia don't using AK style rifle. AK47 has rotary locking and vz58 has open bar, jesus christ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
VZ58 is same as AK47, really? No. Inner mechanism is totally different, compare bolt from AK47 and VZ.58... Operation cycle is other.... MAgazines are no interchamble...
I am saying the opposite. I am saying that the AK series of weapons and the Vz58 have nothing to do with each other other than they fire a common cartridge.
i kind of look at it as a SKS operating system in a AK body... that might not be true, as i have not put practically any effort into researching this weapons design features, but that's a rough idea i get of it by looking at it...
@chaines01
yawn..
GunWebsites 4 months ago
You can get these in Canada, because there not considered a real AK47.
GerrettJihad 4 months ago
its not version of the ak 47 vs.58 is original czech assault rifle and the inside is completely different
simson96able 6 months ago
man i fucking love that gun and i can basically take it apart wiith my eyes closed XD its actually really easy
Jameslikespudding 6 months ago
I think just Stoner's AR15/M16/M4 is US version of AK47.
zlutaopoce 9 months ago
@zlutaopoce Alll assault rifles are based on ortary locker. WWI Lewis machinegun too. Vz. 58 has open bar, and is closer to STG 44 than AK. Its cross betweem P38 pistol and ZB 26 machinegun.
Gangster88232 7 months ago
Sa vz.58 is NOT "version of the AK47", you clever dick!
zlutaopoce 9 months ago
We were part of SSSR so the influence of look is visible. But thats all. All other things are different. And if you think AK-47 is simple try to disasemble vz 58. Had it in 8secs. Anyway we are replacing it with CZ 805. Check that one hell of a gun.
kloboucak007 10 months ago
ty pako tohle neni cesky AK-47 , ale Vz (Sa) 58 a vyrobyla to ceska zbrojovka
MrLormes 1 year ago
ty pako tohle neni cesky AK-47 , ale VZ (Sa) 58 a vyrobyla to ceska zbrojovka
MrLormes 1 year ago
it is NOT a czech version of the ak47
the czechs adopted it in 1958
it was developed by ceska zbrojovka and was influenced by the stg44
witch the ak also resembles alot
ak is just more known so when people see a banna clip n wood its the first thing they think of.
NicoZeGreat 1 year ago 14
this in no way is the Vz 58 a "version" of the ak47 i mean shit nothing is the same on them except that they look similar.
VetFW 1 year ago 5
The AK's and the vz58 don't have a single interchangable part so I don't even see what they have to do with each other.
fatoni698 1 year ago
@fatoni698
keep learning and you might just understand one day
GunWebsites 1 year ago
@GunWebsites Maybe you need to keep learning, I don't call the MR1 the italian AR-15 because its black and has a pistol grip. They have about as much in common as a vz58 and an AK.
fatoni698 1 year ago
@fatoni698
no one calls the MR1 anything because no one has ever heard of it before, LOL
Also commies / USA never owned Italy so it has little to do with what we are talking about
You have a mental glitch, about something almost no one cares about.. calm down about it or you'll get high blood pressure
GunWebsites 1 year ago
@GunWebsites I ALREADY HAVE HIGH BLOOD PRESSURE!
fatoni698 1 year ago
@fatoni698
See !! maybe if you calmed down about minor stuff like this you'd be better off..
GunWebsites 1 year ago
im pretty sure that this and the ak-47 have nothing to do with each other.
saj12100 1 year ago
@saj12100
wrong
GunWebsites 1 year ago
@GunWebsites oh, I heard that they share no parts.
saj12100 1 year ago
@saj12100
the only part they share would be the ammo and / or the shooter
GunWebsites 1 year ago
how is the century arms vz 58?
jigglejack100 1 year ago
@jigglejack100
I have never heard any complaints from owners, and they certainly look well made
GunWebsites 1 year ago
@GunWebsites are they milled recievers?
jigglejack100 1 year ago
@jigglejack100
yes
GunWebsites 1 year ago
@GunWebsites do you think i am better of buying a tgi set up or ohio ordnance?
jigglejack100 1 year ago
Hmm. I seem to have killed discussion here. Pity - its a bit strange to go writing essays on youtube, I know, but i wanted to be comprehensive with what i thought here. Hope someone finds it useful
irR4tiOn4L 1 year ago
@irR4tiOn4L
So, in a nutshell, the Vz.58 IS directly copied from the AK47 .. got it
GunWebsites 1 year ago
@GunWebsites and Ak copied from german one .. and so on ... but vz.58 its way different from AK, any shooter would second that.
Supercukr 1 year ago
@Supercukr
I used to agree, but I am so annoyed with all the internet know it alls attempting to correct a non-mistake that I may just go on a campaign to re-AK the dang Vz58 just to piss em off
GunWebsites 1 year ago
@GunWebsites Oh you cheeky bastard!
irR4tiOn4L 1 year ago
@irR4tiOn4L
LOL .. had to
GunWebsites 1 year ago
@GunWebsites Lol well I did laugh. Btw, i dont mind your calling it the 'Czech AK' in the video because I understand that is the best way to get people to understand the purpose of this gun, and you obviously do know its not an AK. I might call the M16 the 'American AK' (or more likely, the 'American Dragunov' if i were to be more fair to accuracy :)) to a USSR soldier who had nothing else to compare it to as well.
I was responding to those who did claim it was an actual derivative of the AK
irR4tiOn4L 1 year ago
@irR4tiOn4L
thanks for the rational POV !!
GunWebsites 1 year ago
to the final VZ 58 design do you understand that this is a unique development based on the STG 45, walther p38 and previous czech guns - with very limited cues from the AK 47.
When my father served in the Army (conscription) he was told as much, and he was further told that his superiors, who had the access to FN Fal, M16 and AK - that what they had as members of the Czechoslovakian armed forced was one of the best assault rifle in the world - and that it was not an ak. So why treat it as one
irR4tiOn4L 1 year ago
And those are the parts that MOST resemble an AK! So even those parts that took a cue from the AK were completely redesigned. When it comes to the operation and internals - it rapidly becomes clear this is not an AK and shouldnt be treated as one.
Only by tracing its history through the emergence of the concept of an assault rifle version of the VZ 52 in 1946 to the start of design work in 1951 to prototypes CZ 515 and 522 in the early-mid 50's to the SA 56 redesign for 7.62x39
irR4tiOn4L 1 year ago
Very long digression, I know, but the bottom line is that while many parts of the external appearance of this gun DO resemble an AK, and must have been taken from its design - the curved magazine (the prototypes CZ 515 and 522 have straight, STG 45 like ones) shape of the reciever and stocks - all of these are different to the AK - the curve and magazine is different, the stock is at a steeper angle, the iron sights are different and the reciever differs except to aesthetics.
irR4tiOn4L 1 year ago
This secretive withholding of designs, lack of free trade and sharing and restrictive export markets were not fully appreciated by the West, who often viewed the USSR as one entity (nevermind the 'UNION' in the name) - which is why its dissolution came as quite a surprise in 89. The West also had limited information on these designs - so any variation or resemblence tended to get lumped - like AKM, AK74 and this VZ 58 all being 'AK 47'. View the USSR as fractured, and it starts to make sense.
irR4tiOn4L 1 year ago
The bottom line is that its no surprise the VZ 58 was a unique development, because so much else in Czechoslovakia under the Soviet union was. The Czechs neither liked nor regarded highly Soviet design and manufacturing - more with contempt, and wherever possible set out to make their own. Even if they had liked it, inefficient allocative state planning wouldve forced the Czechs to make much of their own goods anyway.
irR4tiOn4L 1 year ago
The goods chosen were often the worst - like Trabant - but which could be made en masse, and there were allocated quotas which were rather arbitrarily distributed to the various Soviet states. So either you made your own goods, or you got crap 'for export' goods - many jokes arose about 'our comrades from the GDDR have produced another wonder good'. The Soviet Union didnt share nearly as much as you would imagine.
irR4tiOn4L 1 year ago
Another thing to consider is that manufacturing and exports were very limited and compartmentalized in the soviet union. There was no free trade like in the West - countries used what they produced, which suited the Czechs since they produced their own TV's, furniture, cars, trucks, food - you name it - but in other places, like Russia, quotas of exported goods, such as from CZ, were very valued. When something was exported, it was done in a top down fashion - someone made a choice on it.
irR4tiOn4L 1 year ago
Not only that, but believe it or not she was extremely restricted in the places she could visit in Russia. She had to stick to the tour group and was not allowed contact with common Russians - almost as if she were a visiting dignitary. She was treated like a VIP. Things were not open in the USSR, and not in ways you would expect. It does not surprise me that designs were withheld from the VZ 58 program - the Brits dont send the US harrier specs either, and the USSR was even more secretive
irR4tiOn4L 1 year ago
Russian arms production, whatever the opinions of the Czechs or West, did turn out some very nice designs and effective war industry. But taken as a whole the Soviet economy was terrible, particularly so in Russia. Moscow starved in the mid 80's because food was not distributed from warehouses and rotted there. When my mother visited Moscow from Czechoslovakia in the early 80's, she was SHOCKED at the terrible quality of life and availability of goods. There were big differences in the USSR
irR4tiOn4L 1 year ago
In turn the Czechs really didnt hold a very high regard of Soviet industry throughout their time in the Soviet Union. Soviet industry was often compartmentalized, and in those nations which had been forced to industrialize from a rural agricultural base, particularly Russia through Stalin, it was top down and ineffective. There was a reason Marx advocated communism only on already industrialized capitalist nations more akin to Czechoslovakia than Russia of the early 20th Century.
irR4tiOn4L 1 year ago
Talking about whether Czechs make good guns is missing a major point. Czechoslovakia was long an economy under the influence of Germany, and its manufacturing was far closer to it than any other Soviet state or Russia's centralized, stalinized industy. It was THE major arms exporter of the interwar years, with 25% of the world market. Its industry and arms were a vital prize for both German early war planning and Soviet strategy. Its arms production was obviously up to snuff.
irR4tiOn4L 1 year ago
When you do that here, one thing becomes clear - the Czechs clearly did not wish to use the AK. They considered the design, but did not hold it in very high regard since they clearly chose to use so little of it. They were far more impressed by the STG 45 and walther p38 and their own earlier designs and thought that they could do better than the AK, which they certainly did. Can it then be considered a development of the AK when it so blatantly flaunted the soviet standardization of the AK?
irR4tiOn4L 1 year ago
No design is in isolation, and being of the Soviet bloc this gun was bound - maybe even forced by the soviets to resemble - to be taken for an AK 47 development. But its a bit like saying that the M16 was a development of the AK since it came after it. Its a silly example but the point is that even if a design comes after and must have been influenced by another design, you have to actually look at the design direction and cues taken, and from what other designs.
irR4tiOn4L 1 year ago
The other point and it goes in with the first is that the gun was never meant to be an AK or use the intermediate 7.62x39mm AK cartridge. Only in 1956 with the SA 56 prototype did it even begin using the 7.62x39 cartridge - because the Soviets were now forcing them to. Now i never said they ignored the AK 47 but it is obvious from the prototypes CZ 515 and 522 that they simply did not think the AK 47 was the best design direction. As I said - they took a LOT more from the walther p38 and STG45
irR4tiOn4L 1 year ago
On the cartridge point there are two things of note. For one, the fact that czechpoint says they didnt get the specs till 1956. I agree that its strange so little cooperation occured but remember that it was only 1957 when the change to the 7.62x39mm was FORCED on all soviet states. Thats why the czechs may have got the specs so late - they never planned to use the cartridge in the first place, but their own 7.62x45mm. The USSR was also not a simply entity and cooperation could be limited.
irR4tiOn4L 1 year ago
I wont say the Czechs make bad guns in all,yes some were pitiful but some are great.But it makes absolutely zero sence to say the VZ.58 wasnt even based slightly off the AK-47.Even the AK-47 musuem lists the VZ.58 known by another name of AK-47CZ.Not to mention I dont believe that the Czechs didnt get drawings of a cartridge that exsisted since 1943 13 years later in 1956.I strongly believe the Czechs took parts of the AK47 and the STGW44 and cobbled their own design that was supperior to the AK
Milner62 1 year ago
Secondly why would the soviets hold off giving the Czechs drawings and samples of the 7.62x39 cartridge when Czechoslovika was a soviet satellite state since being liberated from Nazi Germany after the war in 1946. You telling me they with held from their own satellite state from 1946 till 1956 a total of 10 years after the war and 13 years since the cartridge was put into service? I do not believe that and would have to insist that Czechpoint cite their sources so I can look into that.
Milner62 1 year ago
Heres another important point from the Czech point history page.
"In the first quarter of 1956, the Soviets had finally given the Czech designers drawings and samples of 7.62x39 mm cartridges. Waiting for these drawings and samples delayed the development of the new prototype assault rifle. The first prototype to use this cartridge was the model Sa-56."
If they didnt even have accurate drawings for the cartridges, its a bit hard to argue they had detailed schematics of the AK 47.
irR4tiOn4L 1 year ago
Not to mention the page SPECIFICALLY states that it was only in 1956 and the SA 56 that the prototypes began using 7.62x39mm. How on earth could they be based on the AK 47 if that gun did not even use the czech 7.62x45mm? Arguing that the SA 56 and onward were not based on earlier prototypes but instead the AK 47 is also pointless, since the VZ 58 innards clearly do not resemble one. Pretty hard to resist the conclusion that the VZ 58 was based off a unique development of the STG 45
irR4tiOn4L 1 year ago
@irR4tiOn4L, Really so what are you trying to say? Surely I hope your not saying the 7.62x39mm cartridge wasnt designed till 56 because if so that is wrong since the 7.62x39 cartridge been in service and in production from 1943 to today. Now on the point about drawings, why would the Czechs get drawing samples of the 7.62x39mm cartridge just in 1956 when the cartridge exsisted since 1943?
Milner62 1 year ago
I wish i could post pictures - czechpoint usa history of vz 58 page - specifically look at the prototypes - CZ 515 and CZ 522. They look NOTHING like an AK 47. They look VERY much like an STG 45 off which they were obviously being party designed. This was in 1951 - yet the AK 47 appearance and innards were being largely ignored.
Maybe the final VZ 58 looked like an AK for Soviet pride. But to the extent it was based on its prototypes, those prototypes were very much based off the STG's.
irR4tiOn4L 1 year ago
Its just like the whole Cz.82 pistol, the Soviets wanted the Czechs to get rid of the 7.62 tokarov round and use the 9mm makarov round. Instead of using the soviet Makarov pistol they designed their own pistol which was supperior but still weaker than the pistol the Soviets made the Czechs get rid of. I am not trying to down play Czech design, I am part Czech myself but I give credit where its due and I hate to say it but the CZ.58 is based off the AK which is based off the STGW44.
Milner62 1 year ago
@Milner62 Based very very loosely. The Czechs started designing this gun quite early, and explicitly so off the STG 44 and 45 - of course they didnt ignore AK 47, but they obviously didnt like it enough to use most of it either.
The point is - they wanted to take a different approach and they did. It doesnt make sense to force an 'AK 47 derivative' moniker on their gun - thats not what they did
irR4tiOn4L 1 year ago
If it posted the link I posted is a Kalashnikov Musuem and even they say the CZ-58 or AKA AK47CZ is an AK derivative. They also to go on to say
"Czech sources say otherwise:
"Though externally the CZ-58 appears to be just another AK-47/AKM clone, the CZ-58 is internally a very different weapon from the AK. Though it too is gas-operated, the operating system is very different, and apart from the magazines, almost no CZ-58 parts are interchangeable with AK parts." "
Milner62 1 year ago
got more data on this cool carbine go to: world(dot)guns(dot)ru or type in modern arms into google
american rifleman also has a great article on it
nmende00 1 year ago
Czechoslovakian? BIG FAIL!!! It's been over 20 years from separation. Czech Republic is correct.
bla156 1 year ago
@bla156
only they didn't make these.. Czechoslovakia did
Get a clue before you try to correct others
GunWebsites 1 year ago 17
@GunWebsites I think his point has to do with the distinction that it was the Czechs, not slovaks, that produced these guns. Those points of manufacture are now in the CZ republic, though the time and entity that manufactured these was indeed Czechoslovakia.
irR4tiOn4L 1 year ago
@GunWebsites im interested in buying one of thses but id like to know if its as tolerant to abuse as the ak-47
goldeneye0019 11 months ago
@goldeneye0019
yes these are quite rugged
GunWebsites 11 months ago
@bla156 Your comment is a big fail sir
Phexi 1 year ago
@bla156 who fucking cares, its a shitty eastern european country. thats all you need to know.
day10020 1 year ago
@day10020 lol and UK is just some island! CZ was major arms exporter before WWII which is why it was the only country allowed to keep its own gun other than AK and why it was important to both Germany and USSR. Its also central european, not eastern
irR4tiOn4L 1 year ago
@irR4tiOn4L either way czhekoslovakia fucking sucks, and vz58s are ak rip offs
day10020 1 year ago
@day10020 Im sorry, i thought you were capable of coherent thought and discussion. My bad.
irR4tiOn4L 1 year ago
@irR4tiOn4L im sorry, i didn't know that you still wanted to talk to me. I don't want to talk to you, so go fuck yourself.
day10020 1 year ago
@day10020
your redneck ignorance is showing
wolfcrab 1 year ago
@bla156 no, the correct term is eastern european armpit country.
day10020 1 year ago
@bla156 , They first started making the Vz.58 in 1959. Czech Rep was formed in 1 Jan 1993, you do the math.
kakasanti 1 year ago
If AK47 is Russian version of German StGw44 I would agree that Vz.58 is version of AK47. But both is nonsese.
Charis0127 1 year ago
cool you said it might have been a training rifle where did you get it my dad bought one and it would be cool if i had a "fake" one
weoponmakerpro 1 year ago
@weoponmakerpro
I think I got this off a messageboard classified somewhere
GunWebsites 1 year ago
@weoponmakerpro Trainig rifle it is for war is the same but rifle is completely black and have better surface .Little bit more quality.No others differents.
Rifle is Czechoslovakian but made in Czech part of Czechoslovakia.
Greetings from Czech Republic.
NervousLuke 1 year ago
Can you attach a full stock on a version with a folding stock?
Uder1710 1 year ago
@Uder1710 yes
Xzibit9 1 year ago
@Uder1710 Yes you just unscrew the folding stock.
Jigssaw1989 1 year ago
Yes the Vz.58 is its own gun which is built better than an AK-47 but in the end its based off the AK-47. I mean its not hard to see that they took basically the AK-47 design and turned it on its head by shortening the piston for more reliability, as well as going with a StGw44 based action which gave a larger ejection port which helped reduce the AK-47 risk of a spent casing getting jammed.Now if your AK magazine doesnt fit I dont know what to say.The musuem says Czech sources told them it does
Milner62 1 year ago
and as far as where it comes from that the AK-47 mag will fit and that the Vz.58 is based off the Ak47 both came from the AK-47 Kalashnikov Musuem virtual tour. This musuem goes to say that the Vz.58 which is known as the AK47CZ is like the german StGw44 as an assault rifle and not an AK but it is still a AK derivative being based off the AK with the StGw44 based action. This musuem also states Czech sources site aside from the magazines almost no parts interchange with the AK.Some actually do
Milner62 1 year ago
@Milner62 now if you want to not belive me stating what a Kalashnikov musuem says about the AK family including the Vz.58 which is based off the AK-47 and belive what some wiki article says go ahead. It still doesnt change the fact the Czechs took the AK-47 as a basis of their VZ.58 and heavily modified it. Short stroke piston, StGw44 based action, ect. If you cant understand that the Czechs based their gun off the Ak-47 and modified it like they did well then I cant help you.
Milner62 1 year ago
@Milner62 Just out of interest, what is your source for this?
As far as i know it was a modified VZ 52 to chamber the intermediate 7.62x39 round (no doubt dictated by Soviets), not a modified AK 47. That is reflected in the fact that exactly zero parts beside the bullet are exchangeable between a VZ 58 and AK 47. Again, this is obviously in line with the fact that Czechs designed their own guns.
Now id love to know what you are using for a source to suggest it is a modified AK 47.
irR4tiOn4L 1 year ago
@irR4tiOn4L Also, i should point out the CZ 522, an earlier Czech assault rifle similar to the STG 44 and 45. These can be considered the origins of the VZ 58, although the AK 47 also had an influence of course.
Just as the AK can be considered the product of earlier weapons such as the STG 44 but is not a copy of that design, the VZ 58 is its own design, not an AK 47.
irR4tiOn4L 1 year ago
@irR4tiOn4L Czechpoint usa's 'history of the vz 58' sums up the development history of this gun, and just how little it had to do with the AK 47. Given that is a page the Czechs have specifically set up to inform gun enthusiasts likely such as many of those commenting, id like to know why some continue to insist its an AK against the better judgement of its creators. Perhaps their world view doesnt support another assault rifle
irR4tiOn4L 1 year ago
@irR4tiOn4L, It is a modified AK.They took designs the AK had and modified them.For instance the gas piston is a shot stroke but on the Ak its a long stroke, the action of the rifle was heavily based off the STG 44 than the AK 47. The AK and the Vz.58 bear some resemblance because guess what the Czechs were a soviet satillite state and they had to follow what the Soviets wanted. Btw check out the link I will try to post in a reply to this one.Down on the page it lists the VZ.58 with the AKs
Milner62 1 year ago
@Milner62, and heres the link if it posts
kalashnikov-weapons-museum . ak47-guide . com/ch8.html
If it posts thats the exact page where under the section with Photo8-9 it says
"Third from the top is Czech CZ-58 gun (a.k.a. AK47CZ) which native appellation translates as plain "assault rifle" (just like famous Nazi StGw44 - Sturmgewehr stands for "Assault Rifle" in German) and does not bear any AK in the name - still, it is apparently the AK derivative."
Milner62 1 year ago
@Milner62 The problem with that approach is that the AK itself would be seen as an STG 44 clone - which happens to be what the VZ 58 is more closely based on. The STG 44 itself is based on earlier experimental assault rifles, but can be credited as launching the class. Since the VZ 58 was specifically designed from the STG 44 and 45 - and early prototypes of the VZ 58 looked a LOT like the STG 44/45 - why should it be 'AK clone'? More accurate would be to say the AK and VZ 58 were STG 44 clones
irR4tiOn4L 1 year ago
@irR4tiOn4L But even that is very flawed, because these guns were not simple clones of the STG 44/45 either.
The most accurate thing you can say is that the VZ 58 was based on previous assault rifle, Walther P38 and other German and czech weapon developments and combined these into a unique gun that externally resembled the AK 47 and chambered the same ammunition, fulfilled the same intermediate assault rifle role which the STG 44 had pioneered but utilized distinctly czech manufacturing
irR4tiOn4L 1 year ago
@irR4tiOn4L, no one is talking about clones. We are talking about what they are based off of. I hope you know that based off of and clone are two different things right? Cause I get this alot where people think when you say based off such and such gun they get it in their head your saying its a carbon copy clone which was never said.
Milner62 1 year ago
If that doesnt fit into 'our side, their side' Cold war ideology that is not a fault of reality. Reality saw many distinctions between west, central and eastern european nations, and between nations lumped together as 'west' or 'east'. The arms, designs, idealogies and methods employed often radically differed, even under the same umbrella, and goals were often very different. Few things were as they appeared and few explanations like cause belli for vietnam or panama true. Reality is messy.
irR4tiOn4L 1 year ago
@irR4tiOn4L, because the AK-47 came out in 1947, the VZ.58 came out in 1958. So the Ak 47 is based off the STGW44 which the VZ.58 is based off the Ak-47 loosely. Doesnt mean that the VZ.58 and the AK47 are the same gun. I never said they were the same gun. But they are both weapons that has a very soviet design. Lay a VZ.58 and an AK47 side by side they appear identical except for the fact that the VZ.58 has a short stroke gas piston so a shorter gas cylinder compared to the AK47.
Milner62 1 year ago
@Milner62 : let's continue with number 2. It's logical, that vz 58 is based on Bren design, because Bren gun is licensed copy of ZB vz.26 Czechoslovakian Light machine gun from same factory as Vz 58 ... ( try wiki at least) 3. Based on Ak 47 means at least same type gas reloading system, same bolt type etc... now look at these parts of Vz. 58 (again at least in wiki is a nice picture of internals of Vz 58) and tell me, which part is similar to Ak 47? ..not a single one
cubitko 1 year ago
@cubitko first off why does the bolt or pistol or reloading system has to be the same for the gun to be based off the AK-47. Do you know what based off of means? It means its a modified version. So what if the bolt and the gas piston is a short stroke and not the same as the AK-47. It is still based off the AK-47. Just like the internals are based off the StGw44. Next off the Vz58 isnt based on the Bren. I mean god man cant you tell the Bren feeds from the top when the Vz58 doesnt.
Milner62 1 year ago
@cubitko I forgot to mention that I am not saying the Vz.26 and the Bren arent simmilar I am saying the Vz.26 wasnt licensed out to the english which they called the Bren. The english saw a Vz.26 and fired it and liked it so they took and based the Bren off the Vz.26. Now the Czech`s being a soviet satillite state at one time had alot of their own designs based off modified soviet weapons. The Vz.58 is one of them a heavily modified version of the Ak-47.
Milner62 1 year ago
where did you get it i wanna get one just cause its a training model is it field strippable i just wanna get one cause i can carry it around
weoponmakerpro 1 year ago
where did you get it i wanna get one just cause its a training model is it field strippable
weoponmakerpro 1 year ago
@esh325 : shorter stroke systems are less prone to jamm... that's the way it is.
cubitko 1 year ago
valmet m76 > vz 58
agricola 1 year ago
jesus dude, you gotta learn what your talking about before you actually talk about it
filbum 1 year ago
Jane's Defense said that the mechanism is basically a scaled up, gas operated version of a Walther P-38. Is this true?
radioblueheart 1 year ago
@radioblueheart
be real careful any time you compare a VZ-58 to some other gun people will jump on you, LOL
Seriously though I have no idea
GunWebsites 1 year ago
@GunWebsites, I know what you mean guy is jumping on me because I said the CZ (VZ) 58 is based off of and simmilar to the AK-47. It has the same gas piston but a shorter stroke than the AK-47 and Czech sources says the AK-47 mag will clip into an CZ-58. On top of all that the Kalashnikov Musuem online lists the CZ-58 as "AK47CZ" within the AK-47 family built by satillite soviet states. Which is true The CZ-82 is loosely based off the makarov but supperior. Same with the CZ58
Milner62 1 year ago
But where Cougar is wrong is that the Soviet Union Licenced copies of the AK-47 out to 19 different countries and they were all known by different names. Even the CZ-58 is listed by the Kalashnikov musuem as a AK47CZ a Czech version of the AK47 but it doesnt have the AK47 internals,the internals are loosely based off the german StGw44 but even then it is its own design internally.Some parts interchange with the AK-47 but not all.
Milner62 1 year ago
@Milner62 : I must disagree. Only part that interchange with AK-47 is 7,62x39 mm round. Seriously, internal parts of Vz 58 are totally different to the Ak-47's internals. Even AK-47 magazines doesn't fit to Vz 58. The only similarity between them is their appearence. Internals of Vz 58 are loosely based off the Czechoslovak/British BREN GUN design.
cubitko 1 year ago
@cubitko So are you saying the Czech`s are wrong in saying that their own gun can use the Ak-47 magazine? After all that is what a AK musuem has listed for the VZ.58 which was in a display case with different versions of the AK-47.
Also the internals of the Vz58 is based off a german design with a Czech twist so not a Czech/British internal design. I know not many parts interchange between the Vz.58 and the AK.47 but some parts do interchange numerous Czech sources state that.
Milner62 1 year ago
@cubitko, another thing, I stated in my orignal posts that the Vz.58 was based off the AK-47 but has different internals. A gun can be based off another gun but still have different parts. Lots of people think that a gun has to share all parts to be based off it but no, the design of the rifle is based off the AK.47 as you can tell by the modified gas piston which has a short stroke compared to the long stroke of the AK. The internals are based off a Czech version of the german StGw44.
Milner62 1 year ago
@Milner62 : Well mate, let's make it correct. - 1. AK magazines doesn't fit into Vz. 58, you can trust me , I've got semi auto civil version of Vz. 58 and Ak 47 magazines doesn't fit to it... it's because off magazine release tab, which is located on left side , while on Ak 47 it's behind the magazine. I don't know , where did you read about interchangeability of magazines, but obvious, it's not true. 2. Vz 58 is based on Bren, to be honest it's scaled down Bren.
cubitko 1 year ago
@cubitko I take it you are trying to say that the action is based off the Bren which is an english built gun in england which is of a tilting bolt action where as the Vz.58 is of a falling breechblock action. Next you are saying that the VZ. 26 and the Bren are the same that the English were licensed to build the VZ.26 called the Bren. But the Bren is a tilting bolt action where the Vz. 26 is a tilting breechblock action
Milner62 1 year ago
By the way.. why do are you describing Vz.58 on training rifle?
Then you are forced to argue over diferent grips, magazines and another Bla fucking Bla ;)
First of all Vz.58 has Short-stroke piston gas-operated reloading mechnism which is diferent and more reliable then mechanism build in Ak-47
cubitko 1 year ago
@cubitko
by the way ... what?
GunWebsites 1 year ago
@cubitko How is it more reliable then an AK-47?
esh325 1 year ago
i am curious about your .02 on which is better a cz-usa cz vz58 or an arsenal ak.?
dp665 1 year ago
@dp665
Arsenal
GunWebsites 1 year ago
@GunWebsites Izvech FTW!!!
KiwiTomCrawford 1 year ago
the sights, grips and magazines are all that look the same, the internal design is not even close to the AK
the design could be more related to the ZB26 (bren)
youshowghey 1 year ago
Czech version of the AK-47. Fail.....
2damaxmr2 1 year ago
@2damaxmr2
Stupid comment that is dismissed in the first few seconds of the video = comment fail ..
GunWebsites 1 year ago
Why did you bother saying that they that its another version of the AK47 in the first place?, there are no similaritys besides appearance, and round type. I actually prefer the Vz for reliability
orbitofdoom16 1 year ago
@orbitofdoom16
Because only a concrete minded fool would insist that a few internal differences should be obvious to the whole world of people who hardly care at all about Czech guns..
GunWebsites 1 year ago
@GunWebsites A FEW INTERNAL DIFFERENCES?, There is nothing that you could call the same besides the appearance. Nothing is interchangable. Don't you think its a better idea to educate people on the guns, rather than assume they are ignorant?
orbitofdoom16 1 year ago
@orbitofdoom16
Did you even watch the video?
Before 30 seconds in the video I said almost everything you said in your comments.. you are just looking for something to argue about.. do yourself a favor and worry less about trivial crap like this
GunWebsites 1 year ago
OK but this is not version of AK. This is absolutely different gun. I have both of them in my hands and if you compare them you can see no similarities. Only ironsights (because simplycity) and amunition (we was russia satelite state) are same. They ruined our pistol Vz52 as well (7.65 cartridge instead 9mm witch was builded for).
Sorry for my reaction but my people did piece of good work and everyone are talking only about kalashnikov. Including instruction vieos.
doprdeleneserme 1 year ago
@doprdeleneserme
I understand and I agree, in fact thats what I say over and over in this video.
If you hang out with a country that makes the most prolific rifle in the world, then make a gun that looks almost the same (from a few feet away) to 90% of the people out there.. well, expect for your rifle to be confused with the other (more well known) one
GunWebsites 1 year ago
@GunWebsites What a stupid thing to say. Do you really think the designers cared about how closely it resembled the AK? If they did, it probably wouldve been a conscious decision to resemble the AK to please and gain better chance for approval from the Soviets - not the opposite - to distinguish czech arms to untrained armchair soldiers!
irR4tiOn4L 1 year ago
@doprdeleneserme from your statement "we was" I take it your Czech, part Czech here but I have to say I have been looking at Czech made guns to add to my collection for a while now and have to say the soviets was the reason why the CZ or VZ 82 was made it was their idea to get the Czech`s away from the 7.62 caliber Tokarev cartridge in the Vz52 for the larger 9mm Makarov round. Only thing is they made the CZ82 pistol instead of using the soviet made Makarov pistol.
Milner62 1 year ago
First sentence and I am pissed off ! OUR VZ. 58. ( Samopal vzor 58.).
ARE NOT AND NEVER WAS VERSION OF AK47.
This Automat ("samopal") was build from experience from second world war ! Its ancestor was german G43. First version of Vz.58 used diferent amunnition. After we became part of Soviet union we must adopt their ammo 7.62x39.
BUT WE WAS THE ONLY COUNTRY WITCH USED OWN BUILD WEAPON !!!
doprdeleneserme 1 year ago
@doprdeleneserme
Oh, don't be pissed off
If you understood english you would know that the 6 words after the ones that upset you clarified the first statement for people who would react like you did
GunWebsites 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
The Czechoslovakian version of the Ak47???? Maybe visualy, but inside is original construction. Simply and faithful.
My God! Czech AK47. Author is a joker. Grrrr.
zelenymuzikcz 1 year ago
It is normal that the folding stock on mine need tool to fold and unfold ? Is the tension on the release button is adjustable because mine is very hard ?
PoliceTacticalUnit 2 years ago
No, that sounds like yours is too tight
The ones I've seen have all been fairly ease to open / close
GunWebsites 2 years ago
@GunWebsites I'm having a hell of a time myself. That button is not budging at all. Wondering what I can use.
Angelsweep 1 year ago
Comment removed
PoliceTacticalUnit 2 years ago
vz 58 best gun
MrJancz 2 years ago
FAIL :) "The Czechoslovakian version of the Ak47" ...and the M16 is the american version of the Ak47. :D
Cougar545x39 2 years ago 11
right back at you, since you obviously didn't listen to the soundtrack
GunWebsites 2 years ago
Is your VZ a CZ rifle, Century arms, or a custom build? Thanks.
Borisbad87 2 years ago
I think that one is a custom
GunWebsites 2 years ago
This isn´t AK-47 ,this is diferent gun ,only look like as AK-47 ,but mechanism is diferent!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
jawaprd 2 years ago 7
really? in the video I thought we make it clear that this and an AK are EXACTLY the same... no difference at all between them
GunWebsites 2 years ago
Co jsme se z nich nastrileli na vojne!:-) Good Gun!
pospa65 2 years ago
so would 599.99 be a good price for one with folding stock? i could also get the yugo m70 for 449.99. which would be better?
cuzimaluzer77 2 years ago
apples & oranges IMO
GunWebsites 2 years ago
this weapon design was based off the German STG44 chambered in 7.92x33 Kurz.
Flayer88 2 years ago
Actualy not, except the idea of "sumachine for reduced rifle ammunition".
kibicz 2 years ago
Nice vid. Will you do a review on real one like talking about the acccuracy and recoil etc?
esh325 2 years ago
sure, next time I get to shoot one
they are cool
GunWebsites 2 years ago
Nice review and dont bother with those who dont understand English;)
2gangster&bansheekiller: naučte se anglicky, protože tam docela dobře vysvětluje rozdíly mezi AK a Vz..
kibicz 2 years ago
Tak se podívej do labelu k videu.... Debilové američani...
Gangster88232 2 years ago
boli, su a budu. :)
Cougar545x39 2 years ago
Totally wrong autor, go to fuck with czechoslovak AK47. This is totally different gun, read about this gun! Czechoslovakia don't using AK style rifle. AK47 has rotary locking and vz58 has open bar, jesus christ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Gangster88232 2 years ago
you can do the same
OK OK.. we know you feel the vz58 is the SAME gun as an AK47... now calm down
All this built up stress can't be good for you ..
GunWebsites 2 years ago
VZ58 is same as AK47, really? No. Inner mechanism is totally different, compare bolt from AK47 and VZ.58... Operation cycle is other.... MAgazines are no interchamble...
Gangster88232 2 years ago
oooooo
just like I say in the video, I see
But you felt you needed to swear and threaten me anyway..
Well at least you didn't go off half cocked
GunWebsites 2 years ago
They are completely different weapons. This isn't an AK. The only thing it has in common with an AK is the round it fires.
bansheekiller 2 years ago
wait, are you saying an AK47 and a vz58 are exactly the SAME ??
I don't think they are.. you are wrong !!
GunWebsites 2 years ago
I am saying the opposite. I am saying that the AK series of weapons and the Vz58 have nothing to do with each other other than they fire a common cartridge.
bansheekiller 2 years ago
WTF, vz58 (or civilian CZ858) are totally different from AK47..! AK 47 has rotary locker, vz 58 has open bar... Inner mechanisms are other!
Gangster88232 2 years ago
OK OK
So you think the vz58 and AK47 are exactly the same rifles.. I don't agree but you think what you want
GunWebsites 2 years ago
Dumbass
MrShuuhaijin 2 years ago
i kind of look at it as a SKS operating system in a AK body... that might not be true, as i have not put practically any effort into researching this weapons design features, but that's a rough idea i get of it by looking at it...
MatoVuc 2 years ago
interesting.. I would like to take both apart side by side sometime
GunWebsites 2 years ago
if you do, make a video... i'd apretite it... there is one on youtube, but a bit more detail and better picture wouldn't hurt...
MatoVuc 2 years ago
sorry, I'm not sure.. I'll try to get a look if / when I see it again
GunWebsites 2 years ago
does this have "CZ858 tactical 4v 7.62 x39" on its receiver?
Curious. im looking at a gun that looks exactly like this but its a cz858 4v.
CanadianReich 2 years ago