LT1 Trans Am Idling with valve covers off with Crane Cam Gold Race Roller Rockers

[fmadden71]

@NutBusters69 The drivers side is easy, you just have to move the one smog pipe half a turn. But I still don't have headers, :( some headers may cause issues. Plus it helps is you zip tie all the fuel lines and such up so they stay out of the way. But there is no getting around taking the alternator off to get the cover off the passengers side. Everything on that side of the engine is a pain. The covers are a tight squeeze under the cowl. Larger rockers or covers may be a problem for some too.

[fmadden71]

@NutBusters69 If you really have issues, and have a cherry picker, dropping the K-member is by far the easiest way to work on this engine. You basically leave the engine in place and remove the car from it. FirebirdNation-com had a great article on how to this. I would have done it if I had the equipment and didn't have a steep driveway. It basically takes some room to do.

Other than what I have said, I don't know any other tricks to get the covers back on any easier.

[flashes94]

them rockers sure are prtty



[FASTBLACKBIRD]

HOW MUCH YOU SPEND ON PARTS? AND WHERE DO YOU ORDER? THANKS? HOW LONG TIME TAKE YOU DID THE JOB? NICE JOB!!!!!

[fmadden71]

@FASTBLACKBIRD Thanks! This was actually part of a head gasket replacement job, which costs about what my car was worth. Because of that, I decided to give it a shot myself, not knowing if I could do it to one of the hardest cars to do it to. I was in no rush and spent about 3 months total. But that included time for getting the heads hot tanked and pressure tested, then the intake manifold, etc... basically I did it a step at a time to see if it wasn't just worth buying another car.

[fmadden71]

@FASTBLACKBIRD Total cost was about $3,500, the only 2 upgrades I did was install Crane Cam dual valve springs and the Rockers. Everything else was replaced with stock parts. The gaskets kill ya with the overall price. But now, not counting shop time for hot tanking parts, I could do it again in less than 12 hours. The Rockers could be done in less than 2 hours by themselves. Sadly, almost every place I bought parts from is out of business now. Rock Auto and Summit still kick ass though.

[FASTBLACKBIRD]

@fmadden71 THANKS FOR ANSWER ME! I WANT TO UPGRADE MY TRANS AM WITH CAM, SPRING VALVES, ROCKERS AS YOUR, BUT I WANT TO DO IT MY SELF TOO. I WILL START TO BUY PARTS AND MIGHT I WILL DO IT ALL THE JOB NEXT YEAR!

[fmadden71]

@FASTBLACKBIRD No prob. Sounds like you have a cool project planned. Good luck with it!

FYI, if you are using a Chilton's manual, double-check every torque spec. I luckily noticed ahead of time that a section stated torque to X foot lbs., yet, if you check the torque charts at the front of the guide, the number wasn't correct for all years the '93-'98 manual covers. After noticing this once, I found this continually throughout the manual. Good manual, but they do have a few errors.

[FASTBLACKBIRD]

@fmadden71 THANKS ALOT FOR THE INFORMATION!!!

[FASTBLACKBIRD]

Responder a este vídeo... THANKS ALOT FOR THE INFORMATION!!!!

[scrubbin627]

There should be oil coming out.... you probably have the wrong pushrod length for those rockers.

[fmadden71]

@scrubbin627 If you read my comments below, you would know that there is plenty of oil flowing.

The flow rate was my main basis of how tight to adjust the rockers. The oil is brand new, light yellow, and only flows up the push rod, down the channel in the rocker, and then straight down on to the roller and spring. So the only time it is easily visible, at idle, is when it is flowing down the edge of the heads, which is usually in shadow in this poor quality video.

[scrubbin627]

@fmadden71 Sorry I didnt read the 5 pages of comments under your video. It looked to me like there was a small puddle of dark oil sitting in the front of the head. Your right the video is to blury to see clear oil. When I start the motor in my 95 z without a valve cover it squirts oil on the fender. After installing an LE2 top end I had the same problem because the pushrods were to long. Im running a hi volume pump to. Either way nice LT1.

[fmadden71]

@scrubbin627 Sorry, I didn't mean to snap at you. I just get a lot of comments about there not being oil, especially via a few places linked to this vid.

With my engine, if the RR is too tight, no oil will flow, too loose, and it squirts oil. IMO, you can't correctly adjust rockers on an LT1 without doing it with the engine idling. The spin the rod method may work with solid lifters, but not with the hydraulic stock ones, especially used ones.

LE2 top end? Sweet!

[scrubbin627]

@fmadden71 - No problem, I understand. Yes Ive got LE2 H/C/I, forged pistons, eagle rods, etc.....I need to get a video up. Were planning on going to the LTx shootout again this year in Bowling Green

[fmadden71]

@scrubbin627 Sounds like a sweet setup. I'm not really a drag racer, I'm a NASCAR fan and prefer high speeds all the time, and thus love my 2.73 (semi-rare stock) rear-end. Doing 100 MPH at 2,300 RPMs is pretty cool. :) Plus, I live in CA, so keeping it street legal is tough.

I just checked out the LTx Shootout.and wished it was close to me. Looks way cool. I do live near Pomona and have seen the NHRA finals a few times. They also run F-Bodies in-between the NHRA finals. Way cool.

[3dvorator]

35hp just from RR...let say no more than 10-12 cv,yes their are 1.6 ratio,this means a little more lift and a friction reduction in valve train assembly,but 35 hp...i've just bought a set of 1.5 ratioComp RR and headman long tube headers for my C4 and i don't expect more than 25-30 hp from this stuff...(25 from headers-5 from RR)

[fmadden71]

@3dvorator These are all flywheel numbers, not rear wheel. Crane Cams says a 15-30 HP gain. Summit says a gain of 25 HP from friction reduction alone. Have you seens a stock rocker?

Comp's Magnum RRs use the pivot ball fulcrum, which means friction. The Pro-Magnums use a roller fulcrum and are 2nd only to mine.

Keep in mind that the added HP of each mod drops when combined with other mods.

BTW, why didn't you go to 1.6 while you were at it? And did you get the Pro-Magnums?

[Roadghost88]

I have see guys cut the top of the valve covers and install glass so you can see the valve train. I always thought that was a cool idea.

[srtgarret]

no it is beautiful i love the colored rockers

[jamiewiilams]

that is beautiful! or is it just me?

[fmadden71]

@jamiewiilams I could stare at it all day. I wish I didn't have to use valve covers. :) 

And I wish I had a better video camera at the time I took this vid too.

[fffffaaaaaaaarrttttt]

thats the coolest thing to look at

[fmadden71]

@fffffaaaaaaaarrttttt  Yep, it totally sucks that I have to cover them up with valve covers.

[Joseph9536]

@fmadden71 Maybe you can find some clear valve covers.

[fmadden71]

@Joseph9536 If I ever turn it into a "project" car instead of a daily driver, it is definitely something I will look into doing. But with smog inspections as strict as it is here in CA, you don't want to draw too much attention to your engine. They even have random, trailer mounted, smog check stations they they deploy occasionally. Also, my car falls into the mandatory "test only" stations check. Which means they are pretty thorough about making sure every visible mod is CA legal.

[RicerEater1978]

@fmadden71 its crazy to think that every time those things open theres a huge chunk of metal moving twice that speed.

btw, i never realized how little lift there is on a trans am. or is that just an illusion by the camera?

[fmadden71]

@RicerEater1978 Yeah, the whole concept of a combustion engine is actually kinda scary. :)

As far as the lift is concerned, these RRs have a 1.6 ratio, stock is 1.5. So they are actually opening the valves more than normal. Even at idle, they open and close super fast. I also have matching Crane Cam Springs, so they close faster than stock springs too.

So I think the speed of them and the camera angle doesn't do them justice as to how far they are actually moving.

[RicerEater1978]

@fmadden71 nice,how much were the rocker arms? and how much of a performance difference do you notice if any?

[fmadden71]

@RicerEater1978 It was a huge performance gain, but I rebuilt the whole top end while replacing a blown head gasket. So I can't pinpoint how much the RRs added by themselves because I also had a valve job done and put in new springs. The RRs are rated to add about 35 HP though.

Cost, RRs $335, Springs $165.

I'm also not seeing the full performance out of all my mods yet because I am maxing out the fuel injectors, and I don't even have headers yet. LOL

[wfangnxd117]

beautiful sight

[nymustang99]

Maybe I just cant see it, but how come you dont have oil spurting out of the rockers?

[fmadden71]

@nymustang99 It is, but it is new oil so it is hard to see. Also, keep in mind that this is at idle (600 RPMs). So revving it with the covers off does lead to oil getting splattered around.

[MrCuntPunch]

I'm really wanting to put some 1.7 rockers in my lt1 ta. the cam made a big difference, but i'm mainly curious to see how much more I can get with some extra lift.

[fmadden71]

You might want to check with an expert before you put 1.7s in with a modified cam. The combo of the two may cause the valves to hit the pistons. It really depends on your cam and how much extra lift it is already providing.

[fmadden71]

One other thing, I hit up a bunch of boards and could not find an answer to this. Do 1.7 ratio rockers have enough clearance with the stock valve covers (even certain brands of 1.6s are questionable).

An easy thing to fix though... new valve covers or use the extra thick valve cover gaskets made just for this purpose. But definitely something you want to test before starting the engine up and possibly damaging every one of your rockers.

[tvr2120]

you state that "The reduction in friction alone accounts for a 20-25HP increase w/o changing the ratio "

That much ???? without going to 1.6 ? Did you notice any differences when you drove the car after the installation ? Thanks

[fmadden71]

I didn't dyno the car before and after, but that is what Crane Cam claims. The 1.6 ratio was supposed to up it 30-35HP. So basically 10HP over the friction reduction alone. (This is all fly wheel numbers, BTW.) Just look at a stock rocker vs a RR... I can't believe that they put the stock ones in. Metal just scraping on metal. Kinda like why don't they put headers on stock engines?

But with the few other minor mods I did, the RRs being the biggest, definitely a lot more power.

[freeloader700]

Dude thats pretty cool. I'm going to be doing H/C/I on my mustang. How do you like your cam?

[fmadden71]

It is still the stock cam. I wished I had changed it while I had everything apart, but with CA's strict smog laws, I wasn't sure I'd be able to pass. I had to tweak the 'puter pretty good to get it to pass the way it is now.

A cam and ported heads just added about 100 HP and 100 Torque to one guy I know 2000 LS1 Trans Am. Broke his rear end at the drag strip when he went to test it out. Ouch!

Good luck with your mod'ing.

[cliffabrown]

can you do a video of the exhaust note?

[fmadden71]

I could, but it would be a waste of time. The digital camera I have doesn't really capture sound that great for video. Even w/o headers, (which I should have in about a month) my car is so loud that you can't talk on a cell phone in it. Also keep in mind that this video was taken with my car in the garage idling. You pretty much have to shout in order to speak to anyone else that's in the garage... and as you can tell from this video, it doesn't seem like it is that loud.

[cliffabrown]

i'm full bolt-ons minus 1.6 RR (w/ longtubes/y-pipe/no cat)...the car is extremely loud as well lol..here in the next few weeks i'm going to be installing pushrods/rockers/valvesprings.

the only reason i was asking...was because i suppose the change in lift will alter the exhaust note a little. was just trying to get an idea of what my car will sound like ;)

thanks any way for the response.

[cliffabrown]

also, forgot to say-

those are VERY NICE looking rocker arms!

[fmadden71]

LOL, I bet it's loud. Sounds like you have a pretty sweet setup that I can't acheive here in SoCal w/ the smog laws.

My car sat dead for so long before I replaced the head gaskets and added the RRs that I really can't say if they made a difference in the exhaust note.

I will say from the research I did, that even more than just looking sweat, the Crane Cam Gold Race RRs are pretty much the best. I found a post that compared all the top brands, and in short, you get what you pay for.

[fmadden71]

I also wanted to add that from my data logs, I have proven that my stock injectors (24#ers, 26#s was a typo above) are my bottleneck in making any more horsepower. And I don't even have headers yet. So you might want to consider upgrading those before adding the RRs... if you are on a budget.

[kalebm22]

do you get any valve float at high rpms with the 1.6 roller rockers.

[fmadden71]

Not that I've noticed. These rockers were one of the few upgrades I did while replacing my head gaskets. So while I had the heads off, I took them in for a valve job and replaced the springs with Crane Cam's #10308-1. They are the matching springs for these Crane Cam Gold Race 1.6 SA RRs.

But I wouldn't doubt that if you were to just add these RRs without doing any other work to an old LT1, you may run into some issues.

[kalebm22]

ok, thanks! i knew that it would put the stock springs pretty close to binding. did u feel a pretty good gain out of the swap?

[fmadden71]

It sat dead for 6 months because of a blown head gasket, so it is hard to say for sure. But it does run awesome now and I still haven't got the computer retuned for the RRs. All things being equal, they are supposed to add about 25-30HP. But I have done every "bolt-on" except headers, so my gain wouldn't be that much. Also, with a completely rebuilt top end of the engine that had 170K miles on it, it was going to run better no matter what. As soon as I get headers, I'll get it dyno'd.

[kalebm22]

i see, sounds like you have a pretty good set up. i just got the ceramic coated pacesetter headers, i am very impressed with how well they are built. im guessing u will be seeing 330 rwhp. let me know how it goes.

[fmadden71]

Flowmasters 40 series and a Magnaflow high flow cat made the biggest improvement for me so far.  I'm definitely close to the 330 mark right now. Which is the max'd out HP for 26# injectors (stock size). Also, that is pretty much the limit for an LT1 without doing some serious porting, and a new cam. It just won't flow much more air without it being blown. And it is pretty hard to fit a supercharger into an F-body. :)

[1kings1918]

Nice view of the rockers. How hard are they to install? I've never done that before and am thinking of replacing rocker arms on my LT1.

[theapeman1989]

thats pretty cool,whish we could see inside the engine huh.

[fmadden71]

Yeah, wish I could see a lot of things that are totally buried under a T/A's hood. :)

BTW, I took this video after adjusting the rockers while the engine idled. When I first adjusted them, using a "tried and true" method that is done with the engine off, I ended up breaking a rod. After adjusting the rockers with the engine running, I am convinced it is the only way to correctly adjust the rockers.

[1994camaroz28]

How do you adjust them while the engine is running?? I'm having some issues with my Gm 1.6RRs making noise.

[ghtowagon]

loosen the lock, turn the big nut untill they start clanking, Then add your lash. Maybe a 1/4- 1/2 turn (RRs require alot less turns than Stamped rockers do)

All RRs are going to make more noise.

[ghtowagon]

Woops.. After they clank, Turn them untill they STOP claacking. Then add your lash. Cant type.

[fmadden71]

Since this vid all of a sudden started getting a lot of hits, I thought I should say that if anyone wants more a detailed response to how to adjust rockers, PM me.

Also, I just wanted to correct two things ghtowagon said. You actually want zero lash... it is the pre-load that he was talking about.

Also, I disagree, properly adjusted RRs should be quieter than stock stamped ones. The reduction in friction alone accounts for a 20-25HP increase w/o changing the ratio (for an LT1).