Listened to a 1974 song by First Class called Beach Baby. That song took the horn theme from Sibelius' Symphony No 5 final movement that starts around 1:10 seconds and used it up tempo in the last part of their song. Kind of interesting how the "new" "borrowed" from the "old".
Listened to a 1974 song by First Class called Beach Baby. That song took the horn theme from Sibelius' Symphony No 5 final movement that starts around 1:10 seconds and used it up tempo in the last part of their song. Kind of interesting how the "new" "borrowed" from the "old".
Oh, peeps ! Please disengage your brain matter and simply glory in this such a sweet piece !! My friend, a native of Finland, took the cassette versions of (all) Sibelius' symphonies and listened to them all in a lttle boat on a Finnish lake.... You talk about bliss ! JUST ENJOY, FOLKS !!!
Does anyone have any idea why he did not observe the written rhythm for the last six chords? He did it this way on his other recording as well, and I am sure some recording engineer would say something, so it can't just be a mistake. But it makes no sense, because the spacing of those chords is exactly the point of the ending! (at least as I hear it)
Why can't YouTube listeners get into the zen of classical music and enjoy Sibelius, rather than making invidious comparisons about conductors, as though they are comparing cars or racehorses?
I've noticed that a significant chunk of the debate regarding Karajan's interpretations focuses on tempos. I've also observed that Karajan himself was an avid "fast car" enthusiast who extracted great joy from slalom style time trials along alpine roads in high performance automobiles. Compare him against a Celebedache and you have a disconnect regarding tempi. What gives? I'd like to hear what others have to say.
@BrucknerMotet - Maybe you should compare von Karajan, and tempis, with his predecessor - Wilhelm Furtwangler. von Karajan was-NOT the conductor, to give the best of Sibelius. The Berlin Phil has had many great recordings, of the past, but MOST of the credit, should go to Wilhelm Furtwangler, and/or the great proficiency, or proficiencies, of the legacy, past, present or future, of the Orchestra.
Karajan remains the greatest conductor, and musical interpreter, in the history of civilization. Not only is every single note thought out, but it is placed perfectly from the point of view he is presenting it. The jealous and petty pebble-throwing-comments will do nothing to take away what this great artist has achieved. His work remains as an oasis in the medocrity of contemporary conductors whose lack of vision and smile-and-nod interpretations are nothing short of a disgrace to the art.
@yenrabaraho Frankly, I think Karajan comes up against a lot of competition- Mendelssohn, Berlioz, Wagner, Bulow, Nikisch, Toscanini, Furtwangler, and Bernstein all challenge him. Pity we have no record of the first four. I find the idea risible that because I do not idolize Karajan, I am jealous of him. I am no conductor; why should I be jealous? I would also have to disagree that there are no talented conductors today- Barenboim and Gergiev both spring to mind.
@CAK11891 What's your preferred recording? I'm still trying to find a fully satisfactory recording of certain Sibelius symphonies: 1, 2, 4, and 5. (That said, I somehow like Karajan more for Sibelius than I like him for most things I've heard him, though I'm a little put off by how he rushes the final chords here.)
@imperiumdiaboli I haven't found a perfect one for 5 yet. This one is still pretty good! I like Bernstein's recording much more. I really like Colin Davis' recording of 2 but I hate his recording of 5(at least of the finale)... with the Boston Symphony... I haven't heard his LSO recordings but I hear they aren't as good as the Boston ones. What are your preferred recordings? I'm interested in listening :)
@CAK11891 I'm a bit of a Sibelius novice. Bernstein's interpretations are definitely interesting. The only cycles I've got to listen to all the way through are Maazel/Pittsburgh and Ashkenazy. Neither cycle is fully satisfactory, and I need to listen to the Ashkenazy one a little more closely to give my full opinion of it. I like Janson's handling of the last movement from the 5th, but unfortunately that's all I can find from his cycle on YouTube.
@CAK11891 I still need to hear Davis and Maazel's earlier cycle, and I have only heard short clips of all those cycles done by Finnish ensembles. That said, Karajan does a pretty good job from what I've managed to listen to here on YouTube. In short, wish I could make a strong recommendation but I'm still formulating my opinion!
@imperiumdiaboli I totally understand. I'm currently into a Bartok phase right now... I've been listening to different conductors and it's really hard to tell who does him best. It takes a while! Keep listening. I'm sure you'll find out who you like the most.
@CAK11891 I'm tempted to just buy the Karajan/Kamu cycle on DG, along with maybe the Berglund cycle on EMI for comparison, since they can both be had cheap and it's a lot easier to listen to stuff you actually own to form competent opinions. :-P
".....Then four chords and two unisons enforce order. Their sound and their timing can never cease to stun." Michael Steinberg wrote. But he could NOT have been thinking of von Karajan's competent but uninspiring ending.
Boys and girls, please! Maestro Karajan is listening to you and just smiling. So is Lenny and Dimitri, as well. They, like their music and good will, never leave us, but stand waiting to help us however they can do so,
Karajan is perfection. Nothing is better than Karajan, in ALL his conductions. No one ever did even approach his level of perfection. There are no Furtwanglers to compare with this immense genius.
@mdenero What about bland and superficial? Listen to the recordings of the last movement of Brahms's 4th on YouTube by Kleiber and Karajan. The part at 4:12-4:25 in Kleiber's video is an absolutely beautiful moment; Karajan however speeds right through it. The last four minutes in Karajan's hands are ruined by overprominent brass and rigidity of tempo and lack the flow and intensity I hear in Kleiber. He just does not seem to understand the music to nearly the same extent as Kleiber.
@mdenero The superficiality of Karajan's Brahms 4th is even more evident when one listens to one of Furtwangler's performances with the Berlin Phil (all of which I have posted). Additionally, even his admirers will admit Karajan was in decline in his last two decades. I have seen several critics slam Karajan's 80's Beethoven cycle for its blandness and synthetic textures while praising his 60s cycle to high heaven.
@whyteay You and Sibelius -- Karajan here pretty much totally ignores the way Sibelius notated the rests between those 6 famous chords -- why I'm not sure, but I think it's the least effective aspect of the performance. A bit of liberty is one thing, but a conductor who supposedly prides himself in "objectivity" might at least take notice that the composer has spaced the final two chords 4x as close together as the previous 4 (beats of rest before each chord, as printed: 1, 4, 5, 5, 4, 1).
@mjtpli He didn't necessarily ignore what Sibelius wrote in the last few bars of the piece. What do you make of the marking "Un pochettino stretto" that Sibelius places 16 bars before the end?
@seatonsr I don't mean to say the conductor has to mark strict time through those bars. It's the _relative_ durations of the rests I find crucial. The way Sibelius times the rests (together with the tympani part) separates those last two chords from the previous four (which are a vertical distillation of the great horn call). For me, observing that difference more closely makes for a better ending. (To be fair, he does make a slight difference, but it took me several listenings to catch it.)
Try Lorin Maazel's version on for size. His introduction and developments of the "swan theme" are the most subtle and feel very "kind," indescribable, really - Maazel's version.
Karajan understood Sibelius like no other conductor. In fact Sibelius himself admitted this in the early 1950s, when the composer was old and the conductor was middle-aged. Karajan's recording of the Seventh with the BPO, on the DG label, in 1967, remains to this day unparalleled. Sibelius once said that Karajan was the only living conductor who fully understood what his music should sound like. This may sound strange to some, but it is true. Check the historical record.
Thank you for this. Karajan is perfection in conducting: cold and precise. By doing so, he brings out the composer and removes himself unlike Bernstein who brought his own predilections into every performance.
@akhlys That's normally why I don't like Karajan, but I think his style is entirely appropriate to Sibelius, especially before he had become obsessed with pure, synthetic beauty later in life.
I would pretty much disagree with you, but my answer comes in the form of a video I saw on TED: Oops I can't post URL's, but search for "Itay Talgam", it's a very amusing presentation!
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Listened to a 1974 song by First Class called Beach Baby. That song took the horn theme from Sibelius' Symphony No 5 final movement that starts around 1:10 seconds and used it up tempo in the last part of their song. Kind of interesting how the "new" "borrowed" from the "old".
minmoose22 4 weeks ago
Listened to a 1974 song by First Class called Beach Baby. That song took the horn theme from Sibelius' Symphony No 5 final movement that starts around 1:10 seconds and used it up tempo in the last part of their song. Kind of interesting how the "new" "borrowed" from the "old".
minmoose22 4 weeks ago
Oh, peeps ! Please disengage your brain matter and simply glory in this such a sweet piece !! My friend, a native of Finland, took the cassette versions of (all) Sibelius' symphonies and listened to them all in a lttle boat on a Finnish lake.... You talk about bliss ! JUST ENJOY, FOLKS !!!
cbart51 1 month ago
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Does anyone have any idea why he did not observe the written rhythm for the last six chords? He did it this way on his other recording as well, and I am sure some recording engineer would say something, so it can't just be a mistake. But it makes no sense, because the spacing of those chords is exactly the point of the ending! (at least as I hear it)
MusicaNovaaz 1 month ago
Why can't YouTube listeners get into the zen of classical music and enjoy Sibelius, rather than making invidious comparisons about conductors, as though they are comparing cars or racehorses?
AlanStuartHawley 2 months ago 2
At 4:35, however, the whole tempi debate is suspended in my estimation, because Karajan handles things here with remarkable deftness.
BrucknerMotet 4 months ago
I've noticed that a significant chunk of the debate regarding Karajan's interpretations focuses on tempos. I've also observed that Karajan himself was an avid "fast car" enthusiast who extracted great joy from slalom style time trials along alpine roads in high performance automobiles. Compare him against a Celebedache and you have a disconnect regarding tempi. What gives? I'd like to hear what others have to say.
BrucknerMotet 4 months ago
@BrucknerMotet - Maybe you should compare von Karajan, and tempis, with his predecessor - Wilhelm Furtwangler. von Karajan was-NOT the conductor, to give the best of Sibelius. The Berlin Phil has had many great recordings, of the past, but MOST of the credit, should go to Wilhelm Furtwangler, and/or the great proficiency, or proficiencies, of the legacy, past, present or future, of the Orchestra.
jhb134 1 month ago
Commercials! NEVER going to share this!
doninvictoria 5 months ago
Karajan remains the greatest conductor, and musical interpreter, in the history of civilization. Not only is every single note thought out, but it is placed perfectly from the point of view he is presenting it. The jealous and petty pebble-throwing-comments will do nothing to take away what this great artist has achieved. His work remains as an oasis in the medocrity of contemporary conductors whose lack of vision and smile-and-nod interpretations are nothing short of a disgrace to the art.
yenrabaraho 6 months ago
@yenrabaraho Frankly, I think Karajan comes up against a lot of competition- Mendelssohn, Berlioz, Wagner, Bulow, Nikisch, Toscanini, Furtwangler, and Bernstein all challenge him. Pity we have no record of the first four. I find the idea risible that because I do not idolize Karajan, I am jealous of him. I am no conductor; why should I be jealous? I would also have to disagree that there are no talented conductors today- Barenboim and Gergiev both spring to mind.
shellac1925 6 months ago 5
@shellac1925 Yeah I agree. There are plenty of admirable conductors today.
reev9759 3 months ago
@yenrabaraho Hai perfettamente ragione, condivido pienamente
renato45222 3 months ago
@yenrabaraho "the greatest conductor...in the history of civilization"!! I would advise you to give up whatever it is you are taking!! (:o)
lewars1912 2 months ago
This is pretty interesting.. not my cup of tea though.. too in your face for Sibelius.
CAK11891 7 months ago
@CAK11891 What's your preferred recording? I'm still trying to find a fully satisfactory recording of certain Sibelius symphonies: 1, 2, 4, and 5. (That said, I somehow like Karajan more for Sibelius than I like him for most things I've heard him, though I'm a little put off by how he rushes the final chords here.)
imperiumdiaboli 4 months ago in playlist Karajan Conducts Sibelius
@imperiumdiaboli I haven't found a perfect one for 5 yet. This one is still pretty good! I like Bernstein's recording much more. I really like Colin Davis' recording of 2 but I hate his recording of 5(at least of the finale)... with the Boston Symphony... I haven't heard his LSO recordings but I hear they aren't as good as the Boston ones. What are your preferred recordings? I'm interested in listening :)
CAK11891 4 months ago
@CAK11891 I'm a bit of a Sibelius novice. Bernstein's interpretations are definitely interesting. The only cycles I've got to listen to all the way through are Maazel/Pittsburgh and Ashkenazy. Neither cycle is fully satisfactory, and I need to listen to the Ashkenazy one a little more closely to give my full opinion of it. I like Janson's handling of the last movement from the 5th, but unfortunately that's all I can find from his cycle on YouTube.
imperiumdiaboli 4 months ago
@CAK11891 I still need to hear Davis and Maazel's earlier cycle, and I have only heard short clips of all those cycles done by Finnish ensembles. That said, Karajan does a pretty good job from what I've managed to listen to here on YouTube. In short, wish I could make a strong recommendation but I'm still formulating my opinion!
imperiumdiaboli 4 months ago
@imperiumdiaboli I totally understand. I'm currently into a Bartok phase right now... I've been listening to different conductors and it's really hard to tell who does him best. It takes a while! Keep listening. I'm sure you'll find out who you like the most.
CAK11891 4 months ago
@CAK11891 I'm tempted to just buy the Karajan/Kamu cycle on DG, along with maybe the Berglund cycle on EMI for comparison, since they can both be had cheap and it's a lot easier to listen to stuff you actually own to form competent opinions. :-P
imperiumdiaboli 4 months ago
".....Then four chords and two unisons enforce order. Their sound and their timing can never cease to stun." Michael Steinberg wrote. But he could NOT have been thinking of von Karajan's competent but uninspiring ending.
hartwick3d 7 months ago
Comment removed
hartwick3d 7 months ago
Strawberry Switchblade!
MrDominic522 8 months ago
This makes me happy!
MrDominic522 8 months ago
What she said!
MrDominic522 8 months ago
So you'd expect from Karajan, technical perfection, but so cold, analytical. This approach does not work with Sibelius, and certainly not here.
targetrich 10 months ago
Boys and girls, please! Maestro Karajan is listening to you and just smiling. So is Lenny and Dimitri, as well. They, like their music and good will, never leave us, but stand waiting to help us however they can do so,
cieobt2 11 months ago
I saw this in a performance last night, and I just can't stop humming or singing that one line: 6:19-6:59
ckduck26 11 months ago
Karajan is perfection. Nothing is better than Karajan, in ALL his conductions. No one ever did even approach his level of perfection. There are no Furtwanglers to compare with this immense genius.
That's final.
Kuseikos 11 months ago
@Kuseikos I agree with you, especially Karajan's Sibelius 7.
Numboss 9 months ago
Thanks for uploading. Going through a rough time right now and being able to listen to this movement over and over help lots.
aschuess23 11 months ago
Pure synthetic beauty? Plagiarist! Please come up with your own inaccurate clichés to disparage Karajan.
mdenero 11 months ago 5
@mdenero What about bland and superficial? Listen to the recordings of the last movement of Brahms's 4th on YouTube by Kleiber and Karajan. The part at 4:12-4:25 in Kleiber's video is an absolutely beautiful moment; Karajan however speeds right through it. The last four minutes in Karajan's hands are ruined by overprominent brass and rigidity of tempo and lack the flow and intensity I hear in Kleiber. He just does not seem to understand the music to nearly the same extent as Kleiber.
shellac1925 11 months ago
@mdenero The superficiality of Karajan's Brahms 4th is even more evident when one listens to one of Furtwangler's performances with the Berlin Phil (all of which I have posted). Additionally, even his admirers will admit Karajan was in decline in his last two decades. I have seen several critics slam Karajan's 80's Beethoven cycle for its blandness and synthetic textures while praising his 60s cycle to high heaven.
shellac1925 11 months ago
Just stunning...every time I hear it.
tuxedomack 1 year ago
I had another version where the rests at the end were twice as long - which I preferred!
whyteay 1 year ago
@whyteay You and Sibelius -- Karajan here pretty much totally ignores the way Sibelius notated the rests between those 6 famous chords -- why I'm not sure, but I think it's the least effective aspect of the performance. A bit of liberty is one thing, but a conductor who supposedly prides himself in "objectivity" might at least take notice that the composer has spaced the final two chords 4x as close together as the previous 4 (beats of rest before each chord, as printed: 1, 4, 5, 5, 4, 1).
mjtpli 11 months ago
@mjtpli He didn't necessarily ignore what Sibelius wrote in the last few bars of the piece. What do you make of the marking "Un pochettino stretto" that Sibelius places 16 bars before the end?
seatonsr 11 months ago
@seatonsr I don't mean to say the conductor has to mark strict time through those bars. It's the _relative_ durations of the rests I find crucial. The way Sibelius times the rests (together with the tympani part) separates those last two chords from the previous four (which are a vertical distillation of the great horn call). For me, observing that difference more closely makes for a better ending. (To be fair, he does make a slight difference, but it took me several listenings to catch it.)
mjtpli 11 months ago
Good for tonight.
victor7788 1 year ago
This recording was my introduction to Sibelius 5th in 1965 - blew me away as a teenager. Always liked HvK's approach to him. Thx for posting!
GourouxPete 1 year ago
Just so bloody good :D
Subotan 1 year ago
This is von Karajan's métier. Thanks for posting!
tonygumbrell22 1 year ago
Beautiful.
Try Lorin Maazel's version on for size. His introduction and developments of the "swan theme" are the most subtle and feel very "kind," indescribable, really - Maazel's version.
rsevvywa 1 year ago
This recording is just right. Like the cold Finland winter it is austere and stark (sublime). Thank you so much for posting
tonygumbrell22 1 year ago
Sibelius' use of the low strings coming in at 4:27... awesome effect. Feels like something massive is moving...
TripMyWire3 1 year ago
Karajan understood Sibelius like no other conductor. In fact Sibelius himself admitted this in the early 1950s, when the composer was old and the conductor was middle-aged. Karajan's recording of the Seventh with the BPO, on the DG label, in 1967, remains to this day unparalleled. Sibelius once said that Karajan was the only living conductor who fully understood what his music should sound like. This may sound strange to some, but it is true. Check the historical record.
Numboss 1 year ago
@Numboss According to Sibelius, Karajan is the only one who understood his fourth symphony.
Nuker1337 1 year ago
@Nuker1337 I've often been guilty of exaggerating the facts, so you are probably right.
Numboss 1 year ago
Thank you for this. Karajan is perfection in conducting: cold and precise. By doing so, he brings out the composer and removes himself unlike Bernstein who brought his own predilections into every performance.
akhlys 1 year ago 5
@akhlys That's normally why I don't like Karajan, but I think his style is entirely appropriate to Sibelius, especially before he had become obsessed with pure, synthetic beauty later in life.
shellac1925 1 year ago
Comment removed
allegramente5000 9 months ago
@akhlys Could you elaborate on this?
rrotstein 1 year ago
@akhlys
I would pretty much disagree with you, but my answer comes in the form of a video I saw on TED: Oops I can't post URL's, but search for "Itay Talgam", it's a very amusing presentation!
ethositachi 1 year ago
suck a ...
sicktorija 1 year ago
Thanks a lot for posting!!! I was already getting sick with that awful and stupid rendition by KerlleNaa!!
LordMgls 1 year ago
I can't believe Karajan conducts Sibelius so wonderfully.
This music is a supreme dialogue which makes the heart of God and our hearts one.
mmm48398 1 year ago