Responding to BigAl2k6 on Jesus Camp: Part 5

[mrohnoes]

9:06 Actually, in the world of science, evidence and proof are interchangeable. "Science is a collection...of hypotheses", which are proven with evidence, or proofs. It's amazing what you can learn from a dictionary and thesaurus, isn't it?

[mrohnoes]

3:24 BigAl wasn't trying to say that God wasn't interested in Levi's 5-year-old self or that he wouldn't be able to use Levi. He is saying that Levi, at age 5, would be too young to think that he would want more in life. Ever heard of this thing called "listening to people"?. You should try it sometime.

[PhantomTsubasa]

oh and science does prove stuff! science doesn't prove anything is stupid as we have proved it does and if it doesn't why don't I believe it since science class makes perfect sence!

[ukchristian28]

@PhantomTsubasa

Well, it technically doesn't. Science sets forth an hypothesis with evidence which stands until futher evidence knocks it down. That's what Mrs. O'Brien meant as they later explained.

[PhantomTsubasa]

@ukchristian28 no offence but i don't care about Mrs. O'Brien who clearly had too much time on her hands to say something that will be shot down after the first sentence. Plus can I ask if science doesn't prove anything what about gravity and oxygen?

[ukchristian28]

@PhantomTsubasa

They would be established but technically science sets forth an hypothesis. It is possible that future discoveries will shed light on those things which will cause scientists to view them differently. I bring up Mrs. O'Brien because this whole thing stemmed from what she said, how Bigal misunderstood and how he didn't bother to seek clarification. That incidently pretty much sums up his attitude throughout his rant.

[PhantomTsubasa]

5 yr old children deserve to be kids, and 03:57 what he was doing was called sarcasm or at least an exaggeration of his original impression. Plus creationism the bare bones is god created everything. plus he makes jokes

[ukchristian28]

@PhantomTsubasa

"5 yr old children deserve to be kids"

Being committed to God at a young age doesn't prevent that.

There is more to creationism than saying "God created everything". Creationists attempt to defend their belief. So saying that saying "God created everything" is all you need to say is obviously absurd. Not that I am much of a fan of creationism, at least the young earth variety.

[PhantomTsubasa]

@ukchristian28 did you read the part where I wrote 'BARE BONES' ? me thinks not

[mrohnoes]

(cont. from last comment) shows her saying that and she said that taht's interesting, so who knows if she believes that or not.

8:52 "technically speaking, science doesn't prove anything, that is a true statement" Explain what you mean, ukc.

[mrohnoes]

7:00 I agree that BigAl doesn't realize that Levi was being asked a hypothetical question and his Mom wasn't brainwashing him. But that's only because Becky already did the brainwashing for her

8:36 You're technically right on this. She did say taht Science doesn't prove anything, but she was just quoting the book, but I'm pretty sure BigAl realizes that. The question is: Who the hell wrote that sentence?! Now we don't know if she does believe that or not. i looked at the clip that (cont.)

[mrohnoes]

2:24 I agree that it's good for kids to know God and good morals early on in their life, HOWEVER, that's not what BigAl was talking about. He was saying that Levi was too young to say that he wanted more in life.

4:48 *insert DerivedApe's comment here*

5:43 Where did you get the idea that BigAl said he didn't have a problem with what Levi is being taught!? He doesn't have a problem with what they're teaching him about global warming, but he DOES have a problem with everything else! (cont.)

[mrohnoes]

What's the intro song ukc? I gotta know

[Xenortz]

I don't think it's a matter of God being uniterested in the young child.

I can hardly belive that loving and merciful God would demand complete or at least partial comprehension of his laws (carrying your own cross and this kind of stuff) from a 5 year old kid. It's completly beyond him.

And again he seems to be Christian to me (he has a cross above one of the doors in his room, NOTE it isn't showed in this video)

[ZealSeraph]

I know creationism has a lot of answers for questions that can't be solved with science, but I've never heard there being any solid proof to back them up. So if science doesn't prove anything, neither does creationism.

[YumeIshimaru]

I've seen many a creationist that will shrug off anything evolution/science related. And Using children is not a good thing. Teaching a child and allowing them to have options is never a bad thing. Those poor kids are getting brain washed and are going to be very bigoted towards other people who don't believe in their religion. When the kid was asked a question and was originally interrupted and when he said the sentence that agreed with the beliefs of the mother. I pity those kids .

[ZapAnimator]

TELL ME ABOUT SCIENCE AGAIN, I FUCKING DARE YOU!!! When they say science doesn' prove anything, and that creationism is the only possible answer, the context is that science doesn't work. You twisted this one budy. Though it's a bunch of theories, it at least makes sense. When creationist talk, it's giberish. Science proves things, but is interchangeable because it says that thoough it proved one thing, that doesn't make it ultimate truth. Hence the scientific method.

[ukchristian28]

@ZapAnimator

You are quite obviously ignorant of creationism. Creationists do you not say that science doesn't work. They dispute various scientific ideas about evolution and in some cases the age of the earth. The only point she was making is what I explained. I got the explanation from the family on their website.

[ZapAnimator]

@ukchristian28 No, they assault ideas. The whole science doesn't prove anything was ment here, and when you truly look at the creationist argument, all they want is a literal interpretation of the bible. However, when Levis mom says creationism is the only real explenation of everything, and that god did it all. No experimentation, no testing, no debate, just one big assumption. Science does prove things because it searches for answers, and when it's wrong it admits it. Religion doesn't.

[ukchristian28]

@ZapAnimator

You comment about religion never admitting to being wrong is a sweeping generalization. I myself have changed my mind concerning some things. I used to be a young earth creationist, but now hold to an old earth, based partly upon the scientific evidence for it. I know several other Christians who even accept the theory of evolution (kabanthechristian for example).

I think Levi's mother is in a better position to know what she meant by her own words than you are.

[ZapAnimator]

@ukchristian28 Yes, theories can be changed, but by provided evidence. However, she ays creations the only possible answer. Which is wrong, because now you enter the part where you're just dismissing science. She meant that science is wrong, religion, which is soley based on oppinion, is right.  Religion is not science. A litteral interpretation of the bible is like a litteral interpretation of "Lord of the Rings." It just doen't work.

[DerivedApe]

4:48

"There is absolutely nothing anti-intellectual in creationism.."

Are you freakin serious?

The whole freaking thing is based on logical fallacy, namely argument from authority.

[ZapAnimator]

@DerivedApe I could not agree more. The entire argument is just a ball buster of revversals that try to undermine science by simply saying that god just said so. No testing, no debate, god's amazing the end. Not very scientific, and anybody who thinks otherwise is still willfully ignorant. The factual evidence for evolution and science is there, they just want to replace it with the really crazy stuff that Tohmas Jefferson removed.

[cherbine888]

Our morals do not come from the bible, we had morals well before the bible because if we didnt, we wouldent be able to survive as a species.

[ptango101]

the violence happens in the way fisher wants these kids to be as extreme as other suicide bombers. watch it at about 11 minutes in ukchristian28. this is indoctrination as bad as any extremist religion.

[coolmom9]

Great to see someone defending these people and actually getting their facts straight!  Thanks!

[ptango101]

I've just finished watching "Jesus camp". any person who says that Nazism was a product of atheism needs to watch this doco. This shows that Christianity can promote violence if the people think they are launching from a "righteous" position. If becky said this is what you should do they would do it

[ukchristian28]

What violence. There is no violence in Jesus Camp? All you see are peaceful demonstrations and the giving out of tracts. Honestly have people been watching the same documentary as the one I watched?

[ptango101]

MY definition of violence is broad. Brainwashing, mental and physical abuse are forms of violence. When some camp leader stands up and say's it's time we where prepared to give up our lives for jesus this should be looked at with fear and contempt. There is a reason for separation of church and state. To mix the two invites tyranny. That is violence.

"I want to see them radically laying down their lives for the gospel.....because we have the truth" Becky Fisher.

[ZapAnimator]

@ukchristian28 She wants them radicaly laying down their lives for jesus. Do you not see what she wants. She wants it so that these kids follow her command. Your idiotic perception that she is teaching them about the teachings of Jesus is mutteled. Behind those comments you reffer to is the malice of one lady who coesn't care about anyone else. Sorry pal, but that's the honest truth. You can't reason with extremist.

[ukchristian28]

@ZapAnimator

Follow her command to do what? What she was teaching them was to commit their lives to Christ. Doing so leads to the possibility that one day they have to risk their lives for the sake of the Christian as many have in the past and as many still do today in some parts of the world. "The malice of one lady who doesn't care about anyone else". I honestly don't know what you are basing that on. Nothing she said or did leads to the conclusion.

[ZapAnimator]

@ukchristian28 So the crusades are still going on? Dude, I did the research and here is what Becky wants, as such: literal interpretation of bible in science, mass conversion, connection of church and state, and abortion ban. However, in the US, where she's from she can't have all that. The first ammendmant denies all but the abaortion part. She wants the kids so that all the walls that stand between her and this goal are toppled. That's how she uses the kids. She wants another crusade.

[ukchristian28]

@ZapAnimator

She would like to see a future where more people believe in Christianity and epouse Christian values. She believes that it would benefit society (I agree with her) but I don't see how it follows from that that she doesn't care about anyone except herself which is what you claimed. Surely it demonstrates the opposite.

On the separation of church and state, it never meant that the state must be profoundly secular, only that no one demonination should become the state church.

[ukchristian28]

@ukchristian28

Also, on the literal interpretation issue. It's something of a caricature to say that fundamentalist or evangelical Christians take everything literally. No one in fact does. The Bible contains poetry and symbolism and no one denies this. Whether or not we take something literally depends on the kind of literature being read.

[ZapAnimator]

@ukchristian28 People in the U.S. have started to want to take the Bible literally regardless of the fact, and are staring to deny it as poetry. That's the same thing with extremist, creationist, and religiouse nutballs. However, the funny thing is that I bet Becky hasn't read the entire bible like most Americans, which explains your whole reading case. Because, if you read the entire book it's actually distgustingly immoral, but again, Becky most likely missed the point you made.

[ukchristian28]

@ZapAnimator

What people in the US, and which parts of the Bible are they wanting to take literally? Not even the most funadementalist of Christians would take symbolic language in the Bible literally. The sword coming out of Jesus' mouth in Revelation 19 is obviously symbolic, as is Paslm 64:7 which speaks of God shooting arrows at His enemies.

I don't know of any immoral passages in the Bible.

[grahamglen5]

Why have you only got 24 videos now earlier today you had 30

[ukchristian28]

I deleted a few that I didn't think were needed anymore. I deleted my video about the military by mistake though:(. I didn't save it, and I am hoping someone has recorded it. If not I will have to do a remake. I can't believe how stupid I was!

[rcantb]

Over the multiple responses to bigal that I sat here and watch, I have to say none of your points are any more appealing than bigal's. You just appear to be more respectful as you're saying it. I'm a Christian, have been my entire life. I go to church regularly. I lead my church's youth group. I have to agree with bigal, that lady is crazy. It's people like her that continually turn people away from the church. I'd like to see how the kids respond to someone who believe in more than 1 God.

[DarkeningNite]

Am I the only person here who don't care how we got here? People should be focusing on the future, NOT the past.

What if we DO find out the truth? What will happen. Either a Evolution person turning to a Creationist, or vise visa depending on the outcome, and saying, "See? I told you so!"

[grahamglen5]

Their have been cases where people have been put under hypnosis and given details of a previous life that they have had and could not possibly have known of the existance of that person if they had not been that person before their present life. Proof has been found that it was not made up and in some instances a person has spoken in another language if that previous life was of someone foreign but once taken out of hypnosis they could not speak it and have no recollection of ever doing so.

[ourben]

Vague anecdotal evidence does not a plausible case make.

[grahamglen5]

Any more replies I will read tomorrow as I have to get up for work so goodnight.

[grahamglen5]

Now he has been suspended are you going to carry on and do part 6

[ukchristian28]

Yes, because Bigal still endorses what he said in his Jesus Camp rant and will probably upload them on his new channel. I run the risk of being suspended myself (I am playing the clips that got Al suspended) but fortunately I still have most of my videos saved on the the computer.

[grahamglen5]

Where are you ukchristian28

[ukchristian28]

Right here where I always am.

[grahamglen5]

When are you doing your next video and is Bigal still banned. Why dont they ban the Amazing Athiest for all his bad language.

[ukchristian28]

Soon. Bigal was banned for copyright infringements. He used clips from the Jesus Camp move. My account could get suspended as well for the same reason. I am taking the risk.

[grahamglen5]

You still have AndrewKinghorn1 5 to answer again.

[grahamglen5]

BigAl12K6 has been suspended. More athiest to follow is possible.

[ourben]

Shut up you psychopath.

[MagicAtheist]

Hmm...I propose the Hypothesis that YOU ARE BIGAL2K6! I havn't seen you in the same room at the same time!!!

YOU ARE HIM! I KNEW IT!

[ukchristian28]

Well we are both a little overweight I guess. Yes, I can see how you might think that. lol.

[ourben]

You stupid little man. Grow the fuck up.

[ukchristian28]

Pardon me?

[ourben]

What, you want me to say it again?

[ukchristian28]

No, I would like you to contribute something worthwhile. Anyone can insult and swear at people.

[ourben]

What I said is worthwhile.

You believe in a fairytale, I think you need to grow up.

[grahamglen5]

You need to grow up any idiot can swear

[ourben]

I can swear, so what?

Do you believe in Father Christmas and God?

[ukchristian28]

Oh dear. Whenever I meet someone who compares belief in Santa to belief in God, I just know that I am not talking to a very deep thinker.

[ourben]

Deep thinker? Please...

How old is the earth?

[ukchristian28]

The earth is billions of years old.

[ourben]

Great, and when do you think life started?

[ukchristian28]

Ultimately, God is responsible for all life.

[ourben]

I said W H E N.

[ukchristian28]

I am not sure to be honest. Human history is believed to date back 100,000 years.

[ourben]

Blood from a stone or what?

If you had to guess, then when do you think live started?

[ukchristian28]

I don't think I can guess. No one in the scientific community knows the answer to that question.

[ourben]

Sigh.

If it didn't start with a god, how else do you think it could have started?

[ukchristian28]

You tell me:)

[ourben]

A good hypothesis is self or "peer" replicating molecules.

All it takes is for a system to be capable of self replicating and life has essentially begun.

[grahamglen5]

Watch your mouth ourben.

[ourben]

Are you threatening me?

[grahamglen5]

You should not insult me just because I know their is an after life and you think that once you are dead thats your lot, what a depressing thing to believe.

[ourben]

I insult people when they don't respond to reason.

You don't know there is an afterlife, you hope there is. I wish there was too, but in all honesty there is absolutely no rational reason to believe.

This life on the other hand, is very much a real thing. I'd rather enjoy what I know, than waste energy for something I'll never know.

Some of us are scared of dying, others scared of living.

[grahamglen5]

I do enjoy this life its not just athiests who do.