#102 -Zero revealed! Jarboe's Mill recap

[pcxcity]

I understand this unit is a great way to make hydro..but how long will the steal SS last before it will blow out..can you give me an idea the life of this unit?..this has been a problem with alot of user in useing any SS product..Thank you

[ZeroFossilFuel]

@pcxcity Please read my faq.

[pcxcity]

@ZeroFossilFuel.. OK, so how long do you think this unit will last for..

I can't find the faq..so help me out with a link please..

[ZeroFossilFuel]

@pcxcity You MUST be joking! The link STARES YOU IN THE FACE!

[pcxcity]

@ZeroFossilFuel ..No I'm not joking..

[simnimbus]

Do you know what the by product of using Platinum would be with Baking Soda? Sodium bicarbonate or sodium hydrogen carbonate. NaHCO3

[simnimbus]

What is the by product left over from low quality Stainless Steel and Distilled Water and Baking Soda?

[graceoverall]

Let me just tell you sir, that people like you, are what make America great! The future of our nation is built by people like you, who have a dream and a passion to invent a better life. Sharing your inventions with the world just makes you that much greater.

I'm not trying to inflate your head, but when you look at some of the great men of America's history, they are the ones who made this nation possible. Inventors are certainly among them.

[gharibe123]

Biggest duche ever....knows nothing about anything....LOSER

[protest911]

@gharibe123 pick up a book loserfielding us wellcome two nard bassic step up your game read it over few time and formost shut your mouth

[Cyberfool1]

Hmm, if the Chromium leached off of the Stainless Steel is a problem, I have a radical idea, Don't use Stainless!

Use Regular Steel, I know it will wear out faster than the Stainless will, SO WHAT, it is much cheaper, and if the Chromium separates from the Stainless anyways it results in Steel plates left behind... If the plates are kept submerged they will last for awhile, look how long the Titanic has been sitting where it is.

Cast Iron would also have very few Hazardous byproducts.

[ZeroFossilFuel]

BRILLIANT! Do it. Let us know how that goes.

[Cyberfool1]

I was just making a suggestion... I haven't built an HHO generator, or Cell yet, I have other projects going.

[spencezar666]

the elc would cause the steel to wear out faster then it would if it was out side plus the salt or other stuff you mix into the watter i would say it might last a month if you wear to do this but i was thinking maybe aluminum would work but just an idea

[betufos]

Well, Producing HHO can Damage MS more quickly than in ocean. Still SS is the best Idea!

[DMBing]

Good stuff Z,

I am a bit confused though as I thought I heard that EBN did tests on the amount of CrVI and the PPM was very low when compared to the regular water we get from the house tap.

Not to say that there is not CrVI as a by product in our research but how does it stack up to other industrial uses? Welding, dye pigments, electroplating, among many others.

I always handle and dispose of my electrolyte with care but do we have definitive data on this when compared to other industries? TY

[onesimpleneed]

Simple high school HHO separators will have two tubes and push the hydrogen and oxygent into separate tube.

The metal used in the experiments are platinum not stainless steel. Since stainless steel is 10-11 percent chromium, it makes sense you might be making hexavalent chromium...

Platinum is obviously very VERY expensive....

[ILoveMyCatx10]

Physics says for every positive action (Hydrogen Generators) there is a equal qnd oposite negative reaction HVC. Lets not shove it under the rug! It will need to be delt with if we want HHO HG's to be a success.

[ILoveMyCatx10]

Wastewater treatment plants dehidrate their solid wastes and use the dehydrted waste as fertilizer on non perishable plants. Such as golf courses. R-WWTO HWCU

[ILoveMyCatx10]

Where do these facilities dispose of it? Landfills? The best method I can think of is distill off the water. Then you will still have a small amount of HAZARDOUS WASTE eeeeeeee it never goes away someone owns it forever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Take it from a Retired WWTO and I worked 10 yrs cleaning up a gas station spill.

[ILoveMyCatx10]

Like useing sergical gloves when handling it and dumping the water down the toilet and sending it through a wastewater treatment plant might be better than dumping it on the ground. This could kill the onboard HHO generator if we arent careful. Question is how do we remove this chemical from the water? It has been here since before the Onboard Hydrogen Generators.

Thanks for the test, Retired wwto.

[embalmer214]

Well I now know how everybody else is generating so much- HHO Potassium Hydroxide or Sodium Hydroxide I have been using just water and bake soda.

So if everybody use's Potassium Hydroxide or Sodium Hydroxide and dumps it into the sewer system this group one day will poison our country because you just know

everybody will turn it in to Hazmat site.

[seedavefly]

Do you know of any way to dispose/neutralize hexavalent chromium?

[hazyn123]

the input amperage into the Lincon AC-225GLM

is max of 50 amps at 230 volts.

Its draw is roughly self limiting since it is load dependent transformer.

Its a piece of shit for most quality welds but.....

[hazyn123]

with carbon/graphite as electrodes = no poison

but......compared to stainless steel for performance..I have yet to test such.

same input power, would I get the same output of gas. I know carbon doesnt 'like' super high amperage(heat via conductivity) but I wonder how It would take higher voltages...2000 voltz perhapes? Very informative Zero, I find your electrical regulatory detail especially helpful. excellent work!

[samking12]

hexavalent chromium is it dangerous to touch or breath dose it come from distiled water also? tell us more

[AudiMoney]

Stainless steel T304 material is used to form Electrical Voltage-Plates which do "not"

chemically interacts (chemically inert) (Lab tested less than .0001/year decomposition rate).......as long as we have no KOH.

[992923]

as i recall my involvement with cell constuction and design, which was brought about by stan meyer. no electrolites were used in it's operation or design. i as well have had no problems generating HHO. the only limiting factor i have had to date is the proper power supply. that problem has been resolved. hexavalent chromium is produced when the metal is worked. i.e.- cut, sanded, polished, or welded. i have worked with this material for 35 years, publish the lab tests on the electrolite.

[992923]

audimoney -is on the money, regarding decomposition, stan meyer was also, on the money, and his technology was 30 years older

then what we have at hand. condition the cell and maintain a zero PH for the WFC. this can be accomplished without the eye's of big brother. WFC developement requiring caustic's to be used in HHO production, in my opinion, is a very bad idea. the politicos only need a crack in the door, eliminate the caustic's.

[soldieroffortune1974]

Big brother uses 9 tons of caustics in the drilling and production of oil wells and refineries.... Thats 9 tons A DAY,they dump 100lb sacks of potash straight into the drilling sites to lubricate the drill heads,so as far as eliminating the caustics, they work so use them. They do degrade over time.

What do you think is in your bleach you put in your washing machines......

[StealthModeLondon]

Great to see you in person too! Always thought you might have to keep this stuff quite.

[hazyn123]

quiet

[StealthModeLondon]

Love your stuff - RESPECT :-) keep it coming one day I might get round to making something lol

[jerb6]

jsut wanted to say good work and i was wondering about carbon fiber i know its more expensive but what about durability and byproducts?

[bottdon]

Hi Zero, Very interested in your work...Very good , I have made up a cell my plates are 6" x "2 1/2" s s , not sure what grade, they are cut from a commercial dishwasher side panel. configured - + - n - + - n etc. 21 - 11 + 10 n 0.5mm spacing, production from 13v dc at 16amps draw is not much at all.from 3/8ths" tube its 1 bubble ( pop )per second ? any tips what I may be doing wrong?? D. B.

[rm98752]

hi zero. love the work you have done, Inspirational. I too made an hho gen nothing to large, you know, just mess'n. But since you said about chrome 6 ive stoped dead, i had no idea. you see i dont know enough about it (Chrome 6).

Does it only leech in to the water?

Is it present in the gas??

are we (us hho nuts) pumping more noxious chems in to the enviroment??? i just dont know. answers would be welcome just so i understand it more.

[ZeroFossilFuel]

Leaches into the water as a solid in suspension. The only thing you need to concern yourself with is proper disposal of the waste water. Bring it to hazerdous waste collections points. Local towns often sponsor hazmat collection drives too.

[rm98752]

thanx for the reply zero, mind at rest more so now. Are you aware of any similar side effects with using titanium plates? ie noxious chems ect...

[ZeroFossilFuel]

I have been told yes but don't know what they are. Not a chemist. I have some things in the works that may mitigate the entire discussion of toxic byproducts. Stay tuned!

[MeMagiver]

Hey ZeroFossilFuel, you look just like I immmagined. I've been following your work (a big thank you for what you're doing). You've demonstrated what I suspected might be part of the process and that is water injection.

Your warning about hexavalent chromium warrants a few questions. Have you tested that this is actually occurring? Is the baking soda method less caustic? Have you given thought to filtering this using a standard water filter?

[ZeroFossilFuel]

Even in distilled water.

[johnmcphail1999]

Zero, Good work as always my friend, Thanks for pointing that out about the hexavalent chromium, I had no idea.I live in Sarnia Ontario Canada and everyone at work thought I was crazy playing with HHO cells, untill they seen my results in our NEON. Now we have 12 guys working on cells, many diffrent designs and I have to thank-you my friend , I was cruising u-tube and ran across you and thats were I got my start, I will pass along the info on the hexavalent chromium. Good luck and HAPPY TESTING.

[eandatoo]

Hey, Zero

Glad to finally see you. Hope you're not putting yourself in any danger. I wish I could have attended the conference at Jarboe's Mill. I picked up somemore parts from Home Depot to add as safety features for my next cell. I'll keep everyone posted.

[leewayx9]

Do you get this from using electrolytes like what was mentioned in the video? If you are not using those electrolytes or are using only baking soda do you still get this nasty hexavalent chromium? I have read about industrial electrolyzers and they do not mention any nasty by-products like hexavalent chromium.

[cribcat1]

saw the movie. I dehydrate my elyte. acids and bases.

[bellyarms]

i too am very concerned about the byproducts. i built a small test cell out of plain steel which had small spots of surface rust and tap water. i ran straight 12v dc and it was drawing about 4 amps with 8 plates alternating + and -, no neutral. the water turned orange with green foam. looked nasty so i stopped right away. is this hazardous material? and is the vapor toxic? thanks for all your work and info.

[ZeroFossilFuel]

The orange is FeO. The green foam is probably copper sulfate from test leads using copper wire. As nasty as it looks, it's probably not toxic at all.

[altnrgee]

Ok, I for one am very concerned about the hexavalent chromium that is being generated. This is not a small problem and I think we all need to find different kinds of metal if this is the case...i am dedicating my time for now to finding what other metal options we can come up with. Have found some reference on nickel/molybdenum working very well, but I am working on finding if there is any toxic waste produced. Cost is always a concern, but cost of our environment is greatest! Keep you posted

[ZeroFossilFuel]

316L is much safer and still not cost prohibitive.

[exiteu]

Whre is the Chromium Coming from is it a contaminent of the Stainless Steel?

[ZeroFossilFuel]

Leaches from the surface, even in distilled water, mostly from lesser grades like 304. Good reason to use 316L.

[exiteu]

This is interesting because some grades of Stainless Steel are standard for food processing, and are alsop approved for potable water presumably the chromium is not expected to leach out. So is this a case of looking at the effect of the electrolyte.

[ZeroFossilFuel]

Not the electrolyte but the process of electrolysis. It will leach out even in distilled or tap water if you up the voltage high enough. Electrolyte simply lets us get current into the cell at lower voltages.

[packsofme]

from some reading that I have done yes the hexavalent chromium is because of the stainless steel. Welders also face a risk when they use ss rods and i also found some information on the msds sheets. what I still dont know is how much chromium is being emitted into the environment say after the gas is burnt through a combustion engine? I imagine its prolly just as safe as breathing in carbon monoxide on the freeway, but apparently this hexavalent chromium is nasty stuff. I wish i had more info:/

[quehueveo]

Great stuff Zero, thanks again for all your contributions to the fossil freedom energy.

Will you post a construction video of your new cell? 8" x 8"cell PLease do, I am still trying to understand how you guys design such.

Was a cell actually giving 6 liters per minute? That's huge.

[dlzhotrod]

You're the man, Zero!

[bayoujeffro]

What about breathing the HHO vapors that accumulate in a room that is not well ventalated?

Jeff

[SmartScarecrow]

after such a long day in the sun, was hard to get down and party ... and of course its tough to find a good nudie bar in the middle of Amish country ... besides, at my age, I need to take a nap in the afternoon if I am going to stay up past 11pm ... was great to meet you in person ... we should do it again soon ...

regards ...

[vulpine61]

I agree you look different then I thought!, but I've played this game before and am lousy at it! Nice to have a face with the voice and nic. Anonymity is slightly overrated. Thank you very much for getting the word out about the byproduct, I had no idea but plan to use distilled water only.

[kaveendra]

hexavalent chromium is indeed used in Stainless Steel production, but if you use 316 that is not the case. 316 is called FOOD GRADE, since that is used to fabricate kitchen items used to prepare food.

Fumes rises from cutting and welding of SS can be a source of hexavalent chromium, and better avoid.

As Zero suggested, proper disposal of waste is always better, and also keep the experimentation room ventilated with enough open windows and air circulation.

[rhblakeman]

I sent Zero a link to OSHA's hexavalent chromium page, maybe he'll post it for others to see what bad schtuff it can be since Youtube wont allow links in comments.

[kaveendra]

Good to see you with face, and awaiting for the event coverage.

[rhblakeman]

Well look whose a member of the "platinum blonde" club...same here although mine's been in place more and more since age 22 almost 40 yrs now thanks to heredity on my mom's side.

[ZeroFossilFuel]

Ditto. >:(

[rcurry71]

oops... forgot my fourth question:

4. A friend just installed a Hydro 4000 last week and has seen an increase of 15MPG to 22 MPG city miles (using mineral water) but with no PWM, efie, etc. What are your thoughts? Will his car learn and adjust and start pumping in more gas? He owns a Honda Odyssey (not sure what year).

THANKS ZERO!

[rcurry71]

Thanks Zero!

4 questions:

1. The Hydro 4000 and 5000 use mineral water as electrolytes. I do not know what is inside their units. Can other generators like yours use Mineral water too?

2. What are your thoughts about the Alexis cells?

3. What are your thoughts about Alex's VMU unit?

[KanalasMJ]

Is there a eletrolyte that does not cause toxic waste by-product?

[ZeroFossilFuel]

No. Even pure distilled with enough voltage will become contaminated, especially with 304.

[mrradicaled]

First and foremost, ZFF, it is a relief to find sources of information and progress with such integrity. I started off researching the silly masonry jar kits and worked my way up to a select few tinkerers who show quality. Good job.

Now I'd like to ask, in your collaborated dry cell design, are those neoprene gaskets, and how well do they hold up in such a caustic environment?

[shubus]

Hey Zero! Fundamental question for you: How do you know you have HHO instead of H20? I don't know how to test for this.

[kaveendra]

Fundamental Answer, It burns! So it cannot be H2O.

[shubus]

Normal electrolysis of water also burns. How can you tell if you're burning HHO or H2 + O? Guess I wasn't clear!

[kaveendra]

That is different question (you earlier asked HHO or H2O).

Well, HHO is a vague terminology used by many and it is largly yet not tested in laboratory whether it is H2 + O2, H+ + O2, H2 + O- or H+ + O- or anything else (deuterium for that matter)

Only way to test this is through Gas Chromatography or Mass Spectrometer. Unfortunately this is far beyond the capabilities of a home researcher, and labs charge 1000+ dollars for such examinations paid per time utilized.

[shubus]

Hmmm......the lack of a clear knowledge of the emitted gas certainly helps explain why all this work has such difficulty going mainstream.

We must then be working under the assumption that there is more potential energy in this gas, whatever its composition, than in standard H2O electrolysis gas.

[kaveendra]

Well, you may safely assume Oxyhydrogen is a mixture of hydrogen (H2) and oxygen (O2) gases, typically in a 2:1 molar ratio, the same proportion as water. This is quite enough to take the experiments forward. But if somebody has money to spend on Gas Chromatography, then it will be welcomed by the community.

[kaveendra]

The difficult going mainstream is the blind faith of the Academia on Thermo Dynamics. These systems are not Closed systems, thus is wide open for absorbing ambient energy (like heat etc.) So the output may seems exceeding input, where as it is not.

[hazyn123]

I have heard 'YES'

I have seen the heat availible but never measured it. check out -'cold fusion' plasma9-.

COOL. steam turbine applications? the fellow answered me on the IN/OUT question and said on a joule watt bases, the OUT was favored via heat.

[mptrax]

Mr. Z you are great ! Don't stop !

[shubus]

Zero, you are class act. You deserve all the support you can get.

[mikeyidh]

Hey Fossil fuel its mikeyidh I built a fuel cell and its very powerful. I noticed some arching. It just broke my my 120watt switch about half an hour ago. But this is only when i added a few table spoons of baking soda this was its first exposure to an electrolyzer. See my latest video.

[packsofme]

I have a stupid question so forgive my lack of knowledge in chemestry, but why would people use KOH and NaOH when they could just use plain old tap water and baking soda? we been playing w/ 316 ss, tap and baking soda and the water gets all crudy and brown. should we still dispose of the water as a hazardous material? and another question, what are the odds of one creating O3 or another by-product mentioned as 'heavy water'?scare tactics? My questions are silly but im not educated in this field

[mrbsman]

Hello Mr Z,

Great to see you. Because of your energy and enthusiasm, I had assumed you were about 35 !

Anyways, Thanks for EveryThing you have done.

MrBsMan

[ZeroFossilFuel]

Maybe not in body but certainly in spirit. You might not know it to look at me today but I used to run the full marathon. Still have very high stamina despite the puss-gut. Maybe one day I'll start running again.

Thanks for coming out!

Z

[hazyn123]

puss gut?

Ive never heard that.

good reason not to have one.

[marlog1123]

zero,, thank you for sharing the knowledge, it has saved me a lot of time and money building my cell, be safe, all the best

[Fusion8r]

Hey Zero, it was a pleasure to have met you. This weekend was a great time. Hope the next year is even bigger.

Fusion8r

[sirHOAX]

Have heard of builder's plates disappearing. Ha! First off DON'T USE ACIDs.

Up until this point have not used or experimented with any over the counter products that are clearly designed for burning-hair-balls out of your drain. Not fun people, don't use it.

Was clearing out old battery containers, little spec in the eye burns like hell. This was just from breaking the top off with the cell dry. Imagine a splash!

S-Meyer used no electrolyte at all we should follow that trend. Regards, --S--

[MadStu1978]

Hehe,

Nice one Z, can't wait to see your interviews, wish I was there - maybe next time.

[Hooyah2931]

Z,

It is nice to put a face to a name. I had been waiting, though impatiently, to hear (and see) the results of your weekend! You have been a true inspiration! Your videos are VERY informative. I've become somewhat addicted to your information. KEEP IT UP!

[jajessee]

Thanks.

[AlmostHydrogen]

Hey Z you look exactly like I pictured... ok I'm joking but I really appreciate the vids.

I just made my first cell and yes its important to remember safety. The new cell looks nice.

Again thanks for all your hard work & willingness to share & teach what you have learned to people like me.

AH

[jcndizo]

How come you don't look like you sound?

[ZeroFossilFuel]

Well, that depends. How do I sound?

[red3yz]

i always imagined you were like 30 or something! keep up the good work

[flashback1234]

wow you are a lot older than I thought =D anyway cool stuff. And how much HHO do you think I need to run a 50cc scooter engine??

thanks in advace!

[ZeroFossilFuel]

not much. 1 or 2 LPM should do it!

[flashback1234]

ooh cool!! thanks! with LPM you mean liters per minute right? sorry I`m kind of confused by all the different value`s you know, miles, kilometers, liter, gallons, inch, CM, etc.

By the way I live in Europe so for me it`s CM, liters, KM.

Thanks!

[weinmann4]

Good to "see" you Z! Hope this does not paint a target on your forehead! Excellent work and videos.

[pixelcomet]

I'm building a tube 500mm/150mm dia with a stack of 90mmx230mm plates (25 pcs).

Space between plates is 2mm (+nnnnn-nnnnn+..)

There's a lot of headroom for the foam dissipation device.

All plate's edges are covered! I'm gonna laser and engrave some acrylic shapes for the inner case ;-)

will post results when known.

[BikoHatna]

Excellent Z! Safety First! Sounds like a Sid design...

Can't wait for the vids of the show!