Health Care Rally Moscone Center AHIP

[hopkins4545]

Republicans don't give a fuck about the poor--it's not even about the money, the itty bitty they'll have to pay on their taxes, it's about holding their noses up in the air and not wanting to pay for.."those people..." And they say the U.S. is a Christian nation!

[usrevolution2]

IS IT TIME?! Go to USRevolution2 (dot com) and get your flag of the Second American Revolution. They are now in all 50 states and spreading from porch to porch. They look exactly like the Betsy Ross flag, but with a Roman numeral "II" in the center of the 13 stars. They are only $19.95 + postage and handling and they are MADE IN AMERICA! (Texas)

[treydur]

did it ever occur to you underachievers that maybe it's not a God given right to health care ? Oops, that's right, the truly intelligent people know there is no God. Silly me We already have emergency care. Why do you not downscale your life till you can afford it. If you cannot afford it, tough. Life isn't fair. I didn't go without all those years so you can take it from me.

I didn't ask you to have the kids, I didn't ask you for anything. Why are you asking me to pay your bills ??

[theshlauf]

Well treydur,

You may be unaware of this but I pay for you health care right now. It's a nice little system called Medicare. It comes out of my paycheck and you will be using it when you retire.

Your parents and grand parents might be on it right now. I recommend you take yourself and your family off of this so you can stop wasting my money.

Also, please stop using public libraries, public schools, public transit and social security I could use that money to feed my family.

[treydur]

that was pathetically weak. The implied argument is, we're already being robbed some, why differance does it make it there is more'.

You do not belong in the USA. You are no doubt a 'citizen of the world' and should be with the rest of the sheep who will accept the minimum food and shelter required to keep for revolution'.

either that, or your about a 16 yr old stoner. either would match that argument.

[theshlauf]

Like many idiots on television. You are spinning my statement to make it debatable. However that is not what I wrote. I never said we should be robbed.

I said that people who are not getting healthcare are already paying for your healthcare. Or in other words, you are robbing them.

You mentioned God in your previous post. Why do you not follow this command: ?

"For the whole law is fulfilled in one word, [even] in this: Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself "- Gal 5:14

[treydur]

another pathetic, misguided attempt to argue. and for a bonus, this time you try to find the moral highground through the bible.

of course, you overlook the meaning of love. Loving someone means you allow them to do for themselves and grow and be responsible. It does not mean doing for others what they should do for themselves. That would be crippling.

as I have my own insurance, noone is paying for my healthcare but me. As I do not control USA budget, I am not in a positiion to change it.

[theshlauf]

1) I am aware that you do not control the budget. However you unjustly oppose those trying to enable funds for better healthcare. Despite what you have heard, our world ranking on healthcare is 37th place.

2) If you or your family is on a government healthcare program like medicare, we are paying for it.

3) You claim I do not understand the meaning of love, when you have determined I deserve be kicked out of the country for disagreeing with you.

[jimdandy2499]

To theshlauf:

1) If our health care is so horrific, then why do leaders and representatives of other nations fly to the U.S. to get their medical treatment. You'd think if their healthcare system was greater than ours that they would stay in their own country, instead of coming here to get treated.

This is similar to the people who drive down from Canada to get treatment immediately from our hospitals, instead of waiting a couple of months for an appointment in Canada.

[theshlauf]

To jimdandy2499:

Who exactly flies here? Name them, what were their conditions, what treatments did they need? Do they come often? Did they go to a hospital close to the UN or was this somewhere else in America?

[jimdandy2499]

In 2009 the Brazilian Vice President flew to the MD Anderson Cancer center to remove abdominal tumors.

In Dubai when citizens of the United Arab Emirates or its more prosperous expatriates need high-end medical care, most head to the U.S. for treatment.

In 2007 the Shiite leader Abdul-Aziz al-Hakim flew to the University of Texas M.D. Anderson Cancer Center for lung cancer testing.

In 1996 President Franjo Tudjman of Croatia went to Walter Reed Hospital for cancer treatment.

[jimdandy2499]

In 2008 former Bangladesh Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina, recieved threatment in the U.S. for fluctuating blood pressure, and failing vision in one eye.

The former Indonesian head of state Abdurrahman Wahid came to the U.S for medical treatment in 2001.

In 2007 Iraqi President Jalal Talabani traveled to the United States for a medical checkupcheck at the Mayo Clinic.

[jimdandy2499]

In some of those examples I could find some of the answers such as the exact hospital or condition. Many times the information on these leaders is brief, due to confidentiality with doctors. You asked for some specific examples of this though, and there you have it.

[theshlauf]

So this tells me that we are not the worst system in the world, however for all our resources we can do a whole lot better.

[jimdandy2499]

Sure we can do better, especially with our resources. Admitting that there is a problem with the system though doesn't mean that we should just hand it over to the government.

The point of me giving you the examples wasn't to prove that we weren't the worst in the world. continued...

[jimdandy2499]

It was to show you that these leaders could get health care from anywhere in the world: their own country, Britain, France, Norway, etc... and yet they chose the U.S. That says a lot more about our health care system than you may think or want to admit. Also if you actually believed that we were the worst in the world, I doubt you know much about politics.

[theshlauf]

Ooh, bad move. You were on such a role. But then you questioned my political intelligence on a false opinion. Sorry, but I am not to playing with someone who puts words in the opponents mouths.

Bye.

[jimdandy2499]

Oh no. Wow you really showed me. *rolls eyes* Yes, bad move on my part I'll admit, I usually refrain from personal attacks. One thing though, it was far from a false opinion. I questioned your political intelligence over something you said "So this tells me that we are not the worst system in the world." I questioned your political intelligence over something you believe, and told me yourself, that is far from a false opinion.

[jimdandy2499]

2) Yes we pay for medicare. So your logic behind that arguement is what? That because we are already being taxed for health care treatment, we should add on to that so we can pay more?

The health care reform that Obama wants has a trillion, think about that, a TRILLION dollar budget. Do you really think that would help a country, which is already in crippling debt. That just means even higher taxes now, for everyone.

[theshlauf]

My argument is not that we should increase the taxed because of tax, but that the millions, think about that MILLIONS, of Americans who are already paying and do not qualify for coverage should get their options.

[jimdandy2499]

The two go hand in hand. You provide government health care to everyone, taxes go up, and considering how big the bill is, they will go way up.

Then instead of having a select number of people who aren't getting the best medical care, you'll have the entire country receiving worse and worse treatments. You're not bringing millions of citizens up a notch, you're bringing hundreds of millions down.

[theshlauf]

Total spending on health care, per person, 2007:

United States: $7290

United Kingdom: $2992

Average of OECD developed nations: $2964

Japan: $2581

Just FYI

[jimdandy2499]

It's simple really, cost goes down and with it the quality and availability drops. All those nations have worse quality health care, and sometimes have to wait months for a simple checkup.

There are doctors here in the U.S at hospitals, who have arrived here from countries that use government health care and they are horrified at the idea of it. Our country will bleed doctors, if this passes.

Also how about Tort Reform?

[theshlauf]

UK is #18 on the WHO list...

Japan is #10...

I have heard plenty of posts from UK citizens and they say the exact opposite. They say they usually can see a doctor within an hour if they want.

Have'nt heard about foreign doctors complaining about government health care in general. Though the internet is a big place so I'm sure you have a link.

I'm in favor of tort reform, I think we should put that in the bill as well.

[jimdandy2499]

At the moment let's just agree to disagree. I doubt either one is going to change the others mind. We'll see what happens with the plan.

I've heard people from Canada and Britain say they've had to wait months, but as I said I doubt either one of us is going to change their opinion so maybe it's best to just end this.

[theshlauf]

I agree. And I am glad to see that people can disagree at a maturity level higher than primary school.

Have a good one.

[jimdandy2499]

Besides most of the medicare is payed by the person recieving it while they still are working, so they get that coverage when they retire. If Obama's plan was implemented then you really would be paying for someone else's treatment, much more so than with medicare.

[titansaturnz]

You know in NZ we have free health care...covered by our government...and we are way poorer than the US?...

[hymneforthedead]

As long as The States individually Agree, to keep my Medical Information 10,000% Secure, I'll have no problem with it.

In-fact, I'd hope they'd hire people that are anti-government to help police the fact of what they (government)could do with that information.

[corv1996]

Just wondering where we're going to get all the doctors to work for the government. I'm in Med School now....if this bill is passed, I'm outta here. I'm not not going to spend half of my life training to be a doc and end up as a government slug. You're on your own, folks.

Let Barney Frank take your appendix out.

[hipcowboy]

Whoops, you mean your family or you spent a quarter of a million putting you through school and you expect a massive return on that?

I think you've got your head too far in your biology books to understand the current debate.

Maybe you should have read the Hippocratic Oath before you spent the money.

[corv1996]

Never mentioned anything about MONEY. I'm not going to work for some nitwit bureaucrat telling me how to, maybe, treat YOUR family member.

[jans1736]

Of all the injustices, injustice in healthcare is the most shocking and inhumane. Martin Luther King

[omcx1]

I wonder why they did not tell any stories like the one found right here on youtube under the title "A short course in brain surgery" about a man who came here from Canada and paid for health care because he was going to have to wait 4 MONTHS for an MRI because all of Canada has fewer MRI machines than any major American city. Why? The government beaurocracy says they are too expensive. If not for American health care he would have died. Socialized medicine is a failure we don't need.

[rockgypsy5]

I felt like I was there. Good stuff. Everyone should be covered, we all deserve the chance to live and be healthy!

[hottdog3]

Greed vs. pain and suffering!!!!

[asilver736]

Great video! We really do need REAL universal health care in the United States!