Reviewing the Situation from Oliver! The Musical

[mikehlebik]

they never should have cut the repriise of It's a fine life

[kittenlover437]

The impressons were so bad im really sorry. Both dogger, Bill, Oliver , Nancy , Fagen

[Princesscheeseyfeet]

corr this suckss, when i was in oliver my play was soo much better why has fagin got a white beard and i was a MUCH better dodger :)

[1967mustanggta]

you should see this undiscoverd kid on stage -

type in -

"Beamer on stage performance"

then look for "Gobblefish Soup"

He's 8 years old he is also a country singer / song writer as well as a good guitar player.

Here you see his talent on stage.

One of the best undiscovered talents on youtube.

[Thelincolns1]

Dont think i could get use to this one! 

[slessorpr]

The image/role of Fagin does tend to fall back on stereotypes of 19th Century London Jews of Charles Dicken's time. Dickens is hardly what one wd imagine to be a Jew hater, but despite the touches of pathos and brilliant script, I think the producers focussed on prejudicial stereotypes a little too much in the case of Fagin in 'Oliver'. I don't find Dicken's Fagin offensive, but some Jewish folks certainly might.

[robarireland]

@slessorpr Dickens' response to the criticism of Fagin being portrayed as a Jew was: "Fagin, in Oliver Twist, is a Jew, because it unfortunately was true of the time to which the story refers, that that class of criminal almost invariably was a Jew ... and secondly, that he is called 'the Jew' not because of his religion but because of his race."

[slessorpr]

@robarireland TY roba, it's good to see someone so enjoying the brilliant wealth of theatre made available on YT. I've just favourited a German/English stage production of William S. Burrough's 'The Black Rider' with music by Tom Waits. It is a flawed recording from 1993 or 4 but is an eye opener 4 those unfamiliar with European theatre or Burroughs ideas abt the world, good and bad and other weighty issues. Waits soundtrack is superb and suited perfectly to the themes of 'The Black Rider'

[chloizere]

fagin looks a bit like dumbledore:) i love this its brillaint!

[zigfried64]

"How's it going, Oliver?"

Talk about an anachronism!

[meameabea]

You kind of sound like Mr. Krabbs from Sponge Bob. Heh :)

It looks like an awesome production. Good job!!

[misslittleRoar]

@meameabea tryue

[robarireland]

The accent is always tricky when it comes to Fagin. Yes I reviewed Ron Moody's & Alec Guinness' portrayal as a starting block but I tried to put my own stamp on it. I tried to find a balance between cockney & Jewish while also trying to portray that Fagin is old, has lived in unhealthy conditions most of his life. He also smoked & would have been living in smoggy, derelict London for many years. He is going to sound horse/gravely. But you do have try and balance it all. Which is very tricky!!!

[PuppetsNStuff]

I think the best Fagin I ever saw was an understudy in the Sam Mendes production. Throughout most of the play he played Fagin as a confident, charming, Cockney wheeler-dealer (a huge contrast to the snivelling, weak old man he usually is), but then as it got to this number and he was on his own he revealed himself to be this weak desperate Yiddish man. It worked so well as he got to do the comedy as well as the drama and when you saw how tired and fed up he was it resonated so well with the song

[robarireland]

I am loving this debate and I think everyone is so passionate about it because Fagin is an iconic musical character which can played in so many ways. I think I could play this character numerous times and always never completely satisfied with the end result. However here is what I do believe about the character: He is not a good guy in this he is a bad man, not a gentleman but a user of people, he is unhealthy & old but he is smart. He is also losing it. Thats what I tried to portray.

[Princesscheeseyfeet]

@PuppetsNStuff haa lol i was the understudy for autfull doger !!!

[PuppetsNStuff]

But the point of acting, be it pro or amateur, is to interpret not imitate. When given a character you shouldn't go "Right I'm going to go and look at Alec Guiness' interpretation and use that voice and mannerisms" You should always go back to the words. Let your interpretation of the text allow you to develop the mannerisms and voice. Guiness had to do that to develop his performance. But if you just come along and use his interpretation you aren't acting you're imitating. Also why's he Aussie?

[MistaVista1]

@PuppetsNStuff I quite agree. I'm about to do Fagin in a production of Oliver coming up next week; it was decided that we'd set it in WWII, which thus far has gone surprisingly well, given the initial anachronisms... it certainly allows us to interpet the characters afresh rather than imitate those who've done it before, like Moody. Fagin's character's been changed to that of a WW2 spiv, and the orphans to evacuees, so it'll be interesting to see how it goes on the night.

[persianboy411]

and my overall point is that even if alec guinness might be a great inspiration for fagin--which he is if u want to capture his mannerisms and voice, dont get me wrong--i think u should have maybe focused more on looking toward Ron Moody for this, because of lionel bart's intentional break-away from the dark fagin.

lol sorry i'm being a bit picky, but i just really love this role...

[persianboy411]

i do see ur point, but i have to disagree wth you. artistic expression is important, but of sub-importance after honoring the playwright's words. i mean, i do see where ur coming from. there are a HUGE range of musicals that have had different adaptations thereof. sweeney todd is a good one, because while the original production was a black comedy, the 06 rival was just dark. but i feel ur treating fagin too much like any other character, which is the very beauty of him.

[persianboy411]

and also, Alec Guinness was 34 when he played fagin. so if he could do it, there's really no age-excuse u can use here.

[robarireland]

Thanks for the comments but the key thing your missing here is "amateur musical society production"!! And I would certainly argue that there are no wrong sources of inspiration. To limit your sources of inspiration is to limit your ability to fully immerse yourself in the creation of a character.

[robarireland]

Also, the direction the director decided to take with this production was to portray a more darker interpretation of the script. Lionel Bart's interpretation of his own script is but one interpretation. If you were to limit yourself to the writer's interpretation, any production of that musical would just be a recreation, not an artist expression of the script. Artist expression is paramount and is what engages the audience.

[Voldie4]

It would be a yiddish accent, not a Jewish one. Jewish is a religion, not a language.

[robarireland]

The mediocre guy you are commenting on is not a professional actor This was an amatur musical society's production of a much loved show! The reason I know all this is that I am that guy but I love the debate that is going on about the mannerisms & voice I used I tried to capture what inspiration I took of Alec Guinness' version of the character in the 1948 film adaptation. But as a 25 year old playing a 60 year old it was never going to be perfect. Thanks for the comments - Keep them coming!!!

[persianboy411]

well we appreciate that, but i think the main point you didnt realize when creating the character was that Alec Guinness played fagin in "Oliver TWIST", not "Oliver!". lionel bart himself said that he wanted fagin to be more charming and quirky, a more comic character than in the book or 1948 film. so i think bottom line you used the wrong inspiration source for this. While Alec was brilliant, he's a better inspiration for a play version of the show than as an inspiration for the musical fagin.

[Check30127]

This guy is mediocre at best. Stiff, uninteresting, not genuine, and a poor voice to boot.

[madmanDanx2]

HIs actions are funny very wavy, i don't like his voice though, fagins voice is a contrast of cockney and then a hint of jewish accent if that makes sense, which come out more when he sings..

[Pikatroid42]

Fagin in the book was Jewish, so it should have some Jewish in the accent.

[spudywoody]

where is your train of thought mr fagin ? ,

[RedKingCommandz]

i had callbacks for this part yestrday and i got the part of Fagin

cant wait 2 rehearse this song! :D

[Jamiekennywicked]

congragilations

excuse my spelling

[Bellview]

Eh. I feel his voice is too gravely for the part.

[RedKingCommandz]

but, isn't that the fagin trademark? the gravely voice?

[soulreaper555]

I must say I agree

[soulreaper555]

With Bellview that is. Fagin's voice is gravely, but I think he should also have that sickly sweet "dear old gent" quality

[RedKingCommandz]

i see what u mean,

the best way to play it is probably a healthy balance, eh? :)

[morgan16leigh]

Haha! i'm a chica and i got this part... of Fagin.. idk i'm a 2nd soprano, but i have good skillage for this part...Lol!

[thedragonrider10]

we're jus starting to practice this for our Middle School...hope it works out!...and great job Fagin on having the ruff voice yet be harmonous at the same time!

[AceyRisotto]

My High School has just finished this Production

[Outlaw689]

Tis song is harder than it sounds. My high school is doing this Musical. All the songs are hard. But when you have them down it sounds really good.

[ultrakool]

Saw it in London in '96. Good, but I like the movie.

[marygb001]

thats really good