Avoid Foul Gatherings - Nouman Ali Khan - Quran Weekly

[ServantOfAllah567]

So is that the same for when you're with a company of people who do Haram (gossip, boyfriends+girlfriends, swearing, & etc.) and they are non-Muslims?....

[AzimUhamid]

7:25 he didn't cut that off

[TARIKIMANJIHAD]

What Surah?

[BUSTyoGATS]

its the same thing as christianity.. violence and persuasion by force to become islam. the only real religion is listening to your own god. you are god. everything is god. get educated because tradition is dangerous( as HDT once said), think for yourselves

[zairt]

@BUSTyoGATS well the same can be said for ppl who believe or have been believing that everything is god...

[sunnah21]

Jazakallahu hairan

[jidiliri]

"the intelligent thing is to walk away from the conversation"

I used to do that as a child, whenever my parents brought issues up I didn't want to hear.

any connestion here?

[taqwa01]

i was reminded of family guy and the way they constantly mocks stories of the prophets, and most of the time we turn it off, but like he said... sometimes for the sake of a few cheap laughs, we remain watching that.

[syedathermasood]

@taqwa01 I used to love Family guy Simpsons and American dad. Regular watcher but then Allah blessed me and made me realize the fact and I stoped. I think we are better of remembering Allah than watching these shows. Sadly I watched 4 episodes workacholic which is not a good either. May Allah forgive me and protect me from the evil of this world. And bless us all to the best level of Jannat

[UnderstandingAll]

@syedathermasood Ameen A'Salaamu'Alaikum word it's a problem many of us within the western culture contaminated regions struggle with. I feel the solution is jihad within ourselves for the sake of Allah to break away from the small but deadly vices that be. Our Patience our sincerity and our proper following of our Deen will aid us in the victory that has been promised by us from Allah (swt) Insha'allah. May Allah make us all firm in the roots of Islam. Ameen Barakallah feek.

[SmileyMiss2k9]

Its not easy to go through life without the surrounding of good company

i dont have any only a few people who dont know about islam and i myself cant help them as i myself is struggling and am trying to find good company but it feels like their out of sight

[Troy62486]

I'm from USA, everyone mocks Islam here

[Troy62486]

@MuminahG, if I lived in the right country there'd be no foul gatherings to worry about being around

[Quiscalus777]

@MuminahG What an awful thing to say.

[allah0give0me0jannah]

@Troy62486 and yet you wonder why you get attacked all the time? indead it is the disbelievers who bring the burden on themselves, not us on them

[Troy62486]

@allah0give0me0jannah, not really, lot of people just hate Islam

[allah0give0me0jannah]

@Troy62486 'just hate islam'? doesnt that sound like an ignorant reason to hate something you barely know anything about? just sayin'

[Troy62486]

@allah0give0me0jannah, well there's lot of anti Islam propaganda and a lot of it is simply just racism as well

[faro0485]

Quran 4:140 translation

And it has already come down to you in the Book that when you hear the verses of God [recited], they are denied [by them] and ridiculed; so do not sit with them until they enter into another conversation. Indeed, you would then be like them. Indeed God will gather the hypocrites and disbelievers in Hell all together -

[simkid]

secularism in classrooms is abundant, and this talk needs to be extended to address classroom settings where professors and teachers are part of the "openminded conversation"... please extend the lecture to cover that if possible, may Allah swt reward you.

[kingrichu]

Masha Allah

[Munzer1977]

جزاك الله نعمان. اسال الله لك الثبات والحمايه

[marcelcol69]

yarhamukallah



[mahira34]

SUBHAAN ALLAH SUBHAAN ALLAH SUBHAAN ALLAH,

[GlobalDuty]

yarhamukallah

[Kakashinoor]

Scary o.O

[100mohd]

Allaahumma Izzhal Islaama wal Muslimeen <3

[bearjennifer1]

I love Brother Khan's commentary. We often forget to discuss the importance of dignity with our children and how exercising it is a show of respect for onesself, the community at large and a demonstration of high self esteem.

[MardasMan]

By binding your dignity with the dignity of your god this makes yourself vulnerable, but that doesn't mean, that you have to be vulnerable to it. Allah is really able to not be bothered by a bunch of caricature drawers, and you should learn also not to, especially as by objecting to drawings it makes yourself look ridiculous: If you have to censor something, isn't that a sign of weakness? Is allah so weak to need mandatory peer pressure, bans and eternal torture threats?

[solidwolf66]

@MardasMan Life is subjective. The creator of life isn't.

[MardasMan]

@solidwolf66

The creator of life IS subjective, or else you wouldn't have thousands of religions, denomonations or shari'a interpretation schools, even in Islam. What else than upbringing determines, which skydaddy i worship?

[solidwolf66]

@MardasMan You're basically saying it's subjective because we use subjective means to find the objective.

Not necessarily. Just because we have to use subjective means, doesn't mean He could still have always been there.

If you're not saying what I presume you're saying, then you're just telling me your subjective opinion on why it's subjective.

[MardasMan]

@solidwolf66

We are humans, everything about us is effectively subjective, and also our understandings of religion are entirely subjective. We are the authors of the scriptures, which are all subjective, which makes no room to determine anything(!) about transcendent beings, especially if they elude scrutiny by having properties, which can't be observed or falsified. This makes even your assessment about Allah totally subjective and effectively meaningless.

[solidwolf66]

@MardasMan Or, it makes you ignorant.

I won't give you headers or links, but the onus is on yourself, to research, on whether or not Islam is a man-made religion. It even puts up an offer to mankind to replicate a chapter if we're in doubt of it's origin. The challenge is still up after 1400 years.

[MardasMan]

@solidwolf66

No, if allah is transcendent and beyond our reach, how can we even make assessments about him? How is that even justified? I mean, isn't he the creator of the universe, who happens to be interested in some intelligent primates on earth?

The qu'ran is a mediocre book with contradictions, scientific flaws and more. There's a whole channel only about this /user/TheIslammiracle?ob=5

And concerning your replication:

That's not hard. :D /watch?v=ELuh78woRvE

[saaratheconquerer]

@MardasMan yawn

[solidwolf66]

@MardasMan I'm aware of the channel. It spreads ignorance easily, with more quanity than quality. I saw the one with the pharoah and the red sea. It's how you say, "lulzy."

I'm not going to address your claims on scientific flaws and contradictions, because it's not up to us to eradicate your ignorance.

If you are in doubt, create a surah like it. I don't take your satire as funny. It's pretty juvenile. It's up for 1400 years now, think you can do it? The challenge was put up in the first -

[MardasMan]

@solidwolf66

Hm, easily said, but not proven. If you think, that the channel is so wrong in it's claims, debunk them, but don't just evade the topic like you did here. Sapere aude, we have to think for ourselves instead of just trust authority figures, which can be dead wrong or just abusing your gullibility for profit.

I personally have no knowledge of arabic and can only provide links of others taking the challenge.

/watch?v=ZycRfItnpR4 But the poetry repeats itself often, it's not hard then.

[solidwolf66]

@MardasMan I evaded it because to argue about things like these, take time, and obviously for a small area like YT comments section, it wouldn't work. So I get down to the business of why I believe in Islam; prove it's manmade.

Which is why I almost never pay attention to links in arguments like these. I never do "battles of the links." I will use information I personally learn because it lessens ignorance (hey, I know information is out there somewhere on this, I just don't have it! so here's-

[MardasMan]

@solidwolf66

Great, that's easy. The qu'ran contains scientific errors, for example says, that the mountains have roots, that evolution is wrong, that the earth is ostrich-egg-shaped or that the embryo starts first with bones, then flesh and muscles. In difference to that all this knowledge or lack thereof was on the same standard of its time, for example Aristotelic wisdom, and the rules and laws fit into the society of its time too. Even the jewish influence on myths in the koran can be seen.

[MardasMan]

@MardasMan

The Koran adopted many jewish myths and concepts, which is explainable by the jewish influence on Mohammed, as some of his neighbours were jewish tribes. That's all seeable in the old jewish prophets as islamic prophets, Abraham as its father (Ismael as the bedouin tribes father like in the torah, Isaak as the jews father) the prohibition of certain foods and religious laws, things very similar in judaism. Parts of christianity also influenced Islam, the universalism and Jesus.

[solidwolf66]

@MardasMan Never said ostrich egg, actually. There are other errors too but I'm not here for this.

The "man-made" thing isn't the base for everyone, just mine. It's because since accusations against the Qur'an can possibly be all subjective, it demands to make something like it, to show that the Qur'an isn't God's.

The thing is, I'm eventually going to study all that needs to be studied, because I know that the probability of things is how I find the Qur'an true. If Muhammad didn't receive-

[solidwolf66]

-revelation, there would be too many ironies and inconsistencies out there. There's argument of influences of other abrahamic religions but they're proven to now be man-changed, which is why the Qur'an sets to acknowledge that they used to be words of God, but now are not, changed, and the Qur'an sets to correct them. Almost all modern Christianity is Pauline right? Pagan traditions inserted and such, and most of it it's probably true. However, with the unchanged words of the Qur'an, we can't-

[solidwolf66]

@solidwolf66 - what was I going to say... it asked to prove I was a human and I accidentally pressed backspace...

-really say that Muhammad didn't receive revelation. The Qur'an sets to correct religions history, even criticises Muhammad, and so forth. When he could manage to get all material gains he could've wanted, money and power and all, he refused and said he wouldn't stop preaching even if he had all the power in the world.

Inspecting Muhammad's character actually tells of a person-

[MardasMan]

@solidwolf66

All we know about Mohammed has been through the qu'ran and later stories about him by his followers. I don't think, that this is very trustworthy to effectively and objectively judge his character, because either he or his deluded followers wrote about him. It's like asking devoted christians about jesus, they will never criticise him. But even if Mohammed refused to take wealth: It doesn't prove any of his claims. It's ultimately an argument from authority, Mohammed as authority.

[ISMASHYOUBRO]

@MardasMan You seem to be looking at the hadith on a surface level. There is a deep rooted science from which many have devoted their life in the collection and dissemination of information regarding Muhammad(pbuh). They aren`t merely `stories`, that were taken at face value. They have been scrutinized and analyzed word for word by so many scholars of the past. As for Muhammad(SAW)`s veracity/sincerity well that was attested even by his enemies and rivals.

[solidwolf66]

- who has no desires of this world, and actually perhaps saw something. How could a person who was one of the most trusted and honest people at that time become a liar, poet, warrior, humanitarian, philosopher, and all, even though he never knew how to read or write?

With the unchanged words of the Qur'an is where we actually have reliable proof of how it was back then. Old and new testaments = not as reliable, but with Qur'an we have perfectly unchanged words. We can find things more-

[MardasMan]

@solidwolf66

Having no desires of this world is not a virtue, it's a problem in my opinion, and i highly doubt, that this bedouin being "one of the most trusted and honest people" does make a point, because Hitler and Khomeini was that too. Ultimately he was having sex with 9 year-olds, waged war against his neighbours, killed jews and more, not a bright example of humanism... That he may have been illiterate doesn't prove anything, because knowledge was transferred via oral tradition, and...

[MardasMan]

@solidwolf66

Mecca was part of the incense route, being a stream of ideas through the continents, and i highly doubt, that a tribal chief like Mohammed and his tribesmen were really so incredibly dumb as muslims want them to be before the "revelations". And the qu'ran has changed his words, but because of central authorities heresy could be fought easily, different to christianity, which was persecuted a long time and so split off very often.

[faro0485]

@MardasMan You know any people in walmart that are so highly educated about matters of politics and philosophy that are taught in universities?

[MardasMan]

@faro0485

You are just doing, what i said in my comment. An influentual tribes chief on the stream of ideas, the incense route, is not comparable to "walmart". You are deliberately trying to depict the arabs as historically so dumb and unknowledgeable, that i find it insulting. There isn't any clear break between the pre-mohammedanic period and the revelations of Mohammed, arab poetry was already there, and the incense route was in place, leading to idea trade over many years.

[faro0485]

@MardasMan That's more lenient comparason, that someone on the walmart floor was able to provide intense solutions to matters of politics and philosophy. Where as the Quran was superior to all ideas of that time, and even of today's time. Yet you want to claim "oh the noble great arab, my gods"...

/watch?v=VZdKv3Bijnc

[MardasMan]

@faro0485

"the Quran was superior to all ideas of that time, and even of today's time."

So you beat your wife, kill the infidels, think, that evolution is wrong, that women are only half the worth of men or that aristotelic embryology is superior to our modern understanding of embryology through science?

/watch?v=t2aaM73CRBI

I'm sorry, but nothing of the qu'ran is even slightly evidence, that it's of supernatural origin. In fact you are only using the argument from ignorance, which is a fallacy.

[faro0485]

@MardasMan Oh so you think we're animals do you now? /watch?v=4j0b5QrfTyQ&t=11m36s

Do please remember that feminism was enshrined by islam, that science came from the Quran, that the right for life is islam, that your ignorance of the fact that the quran is superior to what your evil masters are telling us to submit to, what don't you get? We do not submit to your masters (PZ Myers has no clue about embryology). You can go tell them that.

[MardasMan]

@faro0485

It's not about what i think, but what is scientifically demonstrable.

/watch?v=vss1VKN2rf8

"feminism was enshrined by islam"

Islamic countries are today the most mysogynistic countries in the world, that's a fact. The more religious, the more mysogynistic. Surah 4,34 for example is a reason for that.

"science came from the Quran"

No, it's demonstrably false, it's just an opinion of a merchant in the 7th century.

"the quran is superior to what your evil masters are telling us"

So... 1/2

[faro0485]

@MardasMan you want to argue, pm me.

[MardasMan]

@faro0485

If you want, start the pm.

[faro0485]

@MardasMan That's if you want to avoid being a troll.

[MardasMan]

@faro0485

The comment's section is there for argument, and disagreement is not trollish behaviour. But i admit, that i like, when people read, what i write, and a pm conversation is mostly useless, because mostly only the readers of conversations really change their mind accordingly, not the arguers. So, if you want to have a conversation, pm me, but i don't want to needle you, so it's your decision.

[faro0485]

@MardasMan The purpose of the comments section is for comments about the video. Did you watch the video?

[MardasMan]

@faro0485

I mean, solely on authority figures. I'm at odds with a lot Harris, Dawkins, Dennet, Myers or whatever guy there is, say, they are not my "preachers" nor do i like everything they like or do.

I did watch the video. And this discussion developed from a starting point, which very much had to do with the video here, that it's now off-topic doesn't change the fact of a thread of discussion.

[MardasMan]

@MardasMan

just because i disagree with you and your pressuposed world view, i am a mercenary of the devil... That doesn't help, pal, i don't even believe in the devil.

"PZ Myers has no clue about embryology"

He is a famous biologist with the specific field of evolutionary developmental biology, which is directly addressing embryology and he is regarded as an important science contributor. And you think, he has no clue?

[faro0485]

@MardasMan Note PZ Myers is a specialist in evolutionary embryology, but he's a peon when it came to that specific point. Not to mention he was wrong, and it was his irrelgious bias that led to him saying what he said in that video.

Doesn't matter whether you believe in the devil or not, your seniors who need your irreligious state of mind... they do.

[MardasMan]

@faro0485

So you have evidence, that the things he said were wrong? He's not an "irreligious bigot" about this thing, it's a well-established fact, what he said.

"your seniors who need your irreligious state of mind" Unlike you i don't have seniors, who authoritatively tell me, what's right or wrong, it's the evidence, that has to lead me. You're portraying atheists just as you are used to see your own environment. That's called "projection", and i am not like you relying on authorities.

[faro0485]

@MardasMan You can find who your seniors are by just look at the inscription on that euro you have in your pocket.

It was previously believed ie as to what PZ Myers said. Evidence? TheRationalizer inadvertently made a video proving PZ Myers was at odds with Keith Moore.

How can evidence be your lead? You wont move until there's evidence, inadvertently being provided to you by your authority. Instead Quran 49:6, provides a better guide.

[MardasMan]

@faro0485

1. That makes no sense.

2. Keith Moore is not a scientist, but an author and teacher. His (admittedly not too big of a) name has been abused by this al-Zindari "conference", which is known to be a fraud:

/watch?v=8mCaMnCGmAU

/watch?v=ClHuG880pqU

3. Evidence is the only way to find out things, therefor: Of course i only move by evidence, while that doesn't necessarily have to come from authority figures like scientists. Look at the evidence i provided, and counter it with your evidence.

[faro0485]

@MardasMan That's not evidence, that's rhetoric.

"Why are people so obsessed with Moore? Because he is a lying hypocrite, not because he mentioned a god." - StopSpamming. Ah that evidence is tainted as well. Perhaps you should refer to Charles Hoy Fort's writings on "evidence". And no that's not what is leading you, a corrupt philosophy from David Hume is what leads you.

1. You'd need wall paper paste, or a flint to burn your gods, interesting use of idols I say.

[solidwolf66]

- accurately. It's easier to inspect Muhammad's life (did you know one of his wives was accused for adultery, and even he didn't back her up until revelation came to him? He was modest, you know?) within the Qur'an. Thing is, the lot of us can say whatever we want about Islam, but the Qur'an is the most reliable accurate thing in determining whether Islam is truth or lies. In the second chapter alone, it asks shortly to make a chapter like it. And at that time, you only read the first chapter-

[solidwolf66]

- and that first chapter was short, to the point, but actually mentions a lot about the thinking process one may take when determining whether he's actually on the real religion. If you ever read the first surah, you'll notice it's fairly praising, and abstract. Now you're told to make something like that. You know?

I'm lost, I forgot what I was talking about in the first place....for me, anyways, this is my future:

[solidwolf66]

To stay with Islam as it seems to connect the best to the supernatural. Staying here, I'll learn about other monotheistic religions (already done Christianity, Judaism next). Afterwards, looking at atheist and agnostic perspectives at life (mostly philisophically), and then just study more Islam. I'm still in high school so I don't have much time, but I'm still leaning more towards Islam, and how as humans we all have our "facts" and opinions, but we still can't beat the Qur'an in challenge.

[MardasMan]

@solidwolf66

Learning about other religions (not only monotheistic ones) is great, as long as one does it with an open mind. Don't let yourself suck into a group, which is very biased in trying to find errors in the other religions, instead of looking at them objectively. If you, after this "looking on atheist perspectives" think, that atheists deny god, think, that evolution is a conspiracy against god, or that the big bang means, that nothing was created out of nothing, then you should restart

[solidwolf66]

For sure, even if proven to be man-made, it won't crumble the faith for other Muslims, but for me, it might because I've yet to study indepth into Islamic controversies (and that's if it ever gets proven to be man-made). I retain to the Qur'an's challenge for why I believe until then. I'm very rational though, a huge philisophical thinker, so I'm not as ignorant as other people that may be in blind-faith.

[MardasMan]

@solidwolf66

Then let's let it be as it is. I think i should learn more about Islam and improve debating skills and knowledge about the world and science, until i start a conversation like this again, and if you do too, that's great.

If you are interested in a debate, on 25th october there's a call-in skype show about Islam and atheism, where you could call in, if you want:

/user/thejinnandtonicshow

Salaam.

[solidwolf66]

-a link!). And if the Qur'ans challenge really was taken, it would spread fast if it were to be true, because we Muslims (the practicing ones) are taught and made to be honest people (because we're sincerely looking for truth, and if there's no God, then so be it). Down to business: the argument of making a copy-Qur'an is the fastest simplest way to tell someone why I believe in Islam and how it's not man-made.

You can probably relate; meeting ignorant muslims who just sass and never go back-

[MardasMan]

@solidwolf66

Don't get me wrong, but i don't think that taking the challenge would really shake the faith of most muslims, you can easily dismiss the end result as not enough, depending on your own subjective judgement, especially as you are being told as important imperative, that the qu'ran is the infallible word of Allah/god. You just have invested so much into the belief (feelings, relationships, society, identity) to just let its foundation, the holiness, crumble before you in a second

[MardasMan]

@solidwolf66

But it's encouraging, that you seem to respect the search for truth, whereever it may lead one to. Having an open mind is important, let's see, if we both use our minds to search for truth. I am surely no exception, i am surely not the best debater and only have limited knowledge about Islam and especially arabic, but i want to try the best.

[solidwolf66]

@MardasMan And I definitely agree. It's just that, well you see it too, right? The first time you replied to me you knew there was a possibility of me being a stupid ignorant blind follower of religion, right?

That's the problem with this text-based community; it makes telling truths easier, and telling lies easier, and obviously there are more liars than truths in this ill-world (there is good in the world, but it's easy to see that bad is (starting to) take over). It's hard to find good-

[solidwolf66]

@MardasMan -, honest people in the internet. I can tell you're one of them, too, judging by your last comments. However, that's the thing, it's hard to find an honest entity behind a username.

[solidwolf66]

- place if we thought the Qur'an to have contradictions.

You think you'll have some sort of impact on my life? The only way is if you can prove me wrong on creating a man-made surah, to challenge a surah of the Qur'an. Do it, because I'm not interested in anything else you do.

[solidwolf66]

@MardasMan -to the real topic at hand. You just get tired of them, and they start to have no effect on how you live live and believe in what you believe, am I right?

Same with me, to me you're a random person who will have little effect unless you demolish the base of my belief: that Qur'an is not man-made and it's most likely from God.

[Weezyzack]

"indeed I COULD cut that out, MUHWAUHAUHAH

BUT I WON'T!"

jazakAllah khairan brother.

[truthcantwait]

Yarhamukallah! ^_^

[sarahMzaman]

Yarahamukallah

lol......u didnt cut that out

[wesamalshaif]

@sarahMzaman lol..but I dont think youre supposed to say yarhamuk Allaah when you dont hear the "alhamduliLaah"...may ALlaahu clear your cavities and preserve you Brother Nouman

[naarakyuu]

@sarahMzaman part of outtakes. lol

[mundane90]

Jazakumullah!

[blurrystar]

Yarhamukallah. :)

[Conspiracyknowledge]

mashallah, ive never noticed that this brother was handsome with beautiful eyes

[Tehrim1989]

@Conspiracyknowledge i know, right? what color are they, because i've never seen a Pakistani with blue eyes....but then again he is a Pathan.

[kungfufreak360]

@Conspiracyknowledge keep that kinda stuff to yourself

[HanaJayde]

Salam, I have a question, by "walk away".. does it mean not to hang out with these people ever again or to just leave during that particular meeting? jzzk

[BelligerentPacifist]

@HanaJayde

At least walk out then and let them know why. Leave their friendship completely if they persist wAllahua3lam.

[hassanmah86]

@HanaJayde Allah knows better... but how i take it as if ur friends make fun of ur mother, ur father, ur brother, ur sister ur family ur loved ones, will u be friends with them? will u even take them as ur friends?

[justrational1400]

SubhanAllah!

[LosTL0rD]

man, he's an inspiration .. may Allah reward him abundantly

[sidkings]

@LosTL0rD AMEEN!! I cant help but think ive wasted somuch time doing nothing,when I could have applied myself and try to be more knowledgeable like this brother... may Allah guide us

[IbnSaeed]

too much background noise in the recording.

[TheFakeW0rld]

omg im the 2nd viewer

[samia7756]

omg im the 1st viewer :)