Will Christians sin in heaven?

[ShaneChiswick]

I am a Christian and I am questioning my faith. I would class myself as a calvinist, reformed evangelical. I no longer can call myself a fundy. I have believed and taught that there would be no free will in heaven in regards to sin. In other words God would create a new body that is incapable of sin.

[zackindy312]

Wasn't there a war in heaven between Satan and God?

[Dwicker64]

Absolutely brilliant! 5 stars for sure. Isn't it very refreshing when you can see through bullshit.

[crazypills2]

Thanks Dwicker64. Bullshit is transparent if you look hard enough.

[1993MovieMan]

@crazypills2 You are truly an inspiration ! Cutting through hypocritical , sanctimonius bullshit !

[crazypills2]

@1993MovieMan "You are truly an inspiration !"

Thanks 1993MovieMan

[ricardas83]

I think I will have free will in Hell and will have good barbecue.

[crazypills2]

ModerateCalvinist,

So, you're saying that people will have no free will in heaven?

[simple475]

crazypills..I think you are trying extremely hard to suppress the truth of Jesus Christ.

just my 2 cents

[crazypills2]

Hey simple475,

What truth am I suppressing?

[1993MovieMan]

@crazypills2 Don`t listen to these Christian jackasses , dude ! There`s no one spiritual truth as if there was , all religions would agree ! And , yet they don`t ! Maybe in Heaven , there`s one truth but here on Earth , everything`s relative !

[freethinker3161]

if you know that your best friend is in hell, or that your child is in hell how would you not have sorrow??

and how would you not know it unless god wipes your memory clean when you enter heaven. but i hear all the time and i have no biblical justification for remembering this, but i thought we would recognize our friends and relatives in heaven. right?

oh well it's all bullshit anyway.

[livingwaterrevivals]

Sorrow will not be in heaven in the least. The only conclusion is that God's presence will overpower and obliterate any painful memory, and One would be made perfect in His sight and care. There will be no more cares, because cares are the order of the old things, and the old things will have passed away. Revelation 7:17; Revelation 21:4

[lildog73]

There will be no sin in heaven. Sin and death were both destoyed on the cross. That's why Christians today have the opportunity to live sin free. People who justify sin just show that they are not of God.

[livingwaterrevivals]

Good comment! =)

[yo1o2eggs]

"if something doesn't make sense, don't pretend that it does."

I love it!

Indeed, the emperor has no clothes!

[crazypills2]

Thanks yo1o2eggs.

[brainouty]

A. Good video, crazypills2. I wrote webpages on this beginning with DDNA(dot)htm, but here's the gist answer:

1. God never wants to sin (He can, obviously) DUE TO WHAT HE KNOWS. So

2. We humans still have free will in heaven, just like those in hell, but we won't want to sin due to what we then know. You dont' want to murder, neither do I. So it's not too hard to understand that if we really understood all sin's ugliness, we'd never be attracted to it. (Cont. in B)

[brainouty]

B. Concerning the 'no sorrow' and like verses, that only means one is reconciled to the truth. For example, my mother had a stroke and that hurts, but I don't sorrow over it because I am reconciled to the truth.

God 'feels' (really knows, but we'll anthropopathise Him) suffering of everyone in hell and forever in the past during their lifetimes, because He's Omniscience. But He Reconciles Truth. That's how the Cross got done.

Again, good video. It's vital to pose disturbing questions!

[brainouty]

Crud, I forgot to add something. Calvinists misdefined Total Depravity. Bible's definition is that the human spirit DIED (Gen 2:17, you know the two Hebrew verbs there for two deaths, and I did videos on it). So the ability to PROCESS information died.

So it's a depravity of DATA processing, not of will. Free will is nonmeritorious at all times, since it must depend on the DATA it has. Will then accepts or rejects the data. So if one has depraved info, he makes depraved decisions.

[crazypills2]

Hi brainouty,

I'm not sure that an understanding of something is enough to bring permanent change. If the perfect can sin, then why wouldn't we?

[brainouty]

Hi, crazypills2! You pose a great question in the video & again here. Believers CAN sin (even as God always can) but we WON'T sin again, post-death. So the ability is never taken away. Wouldn't be freedom were the ability removed.

Again, the analogy: you are not tempted to murder even now, & neither am I. It's just not an attractive motivation. James 1:13's Greek says nothing is big enough to attract God to sin.

So in eternity, nothing will be big enough to attract us, either.

[8journey8]

*It's okay to question things. If something doesn't make sense, don't pretend that it does..*

I love this little gem. I have begun to use it when I venture to talk things biblical with my christian husband. I am going slow. Maybe someday, his new day will dawn like it did for me. Maybe not. But I can hope. Meanwhile, thanks for the simple nonaggressive phrase that I say when he worries I'm bordering on blasphemy.

[crazypills2]

Thanks 8journey8.

This has become my motto. I understand that I can't change the minds of the dogmatic. Instead, I can only offer items for them to ponder. Any change must happen from the inside out.

[ozmoroid]

Wow, I hadn't even heard of Arminians before. I read up on Arminian and he's (just) slightly less of a jerk than Calvin was.

[Antichryst666]

It makes me wonder what happens next. Do they get another day of judgement? or can they repent on the spot? Go directly to Hell? Do they get a week with a little less bliss?

[crazypills2]

Antichryst666,

Maybe this has happened for eternity. The fallen saints in heaven end up being the devil and his demons in the next creation. It could happen :-)

[chessdawgz]

Yay! I'm not the only one who takes "crazy" pills :)

[Mahoivlich]

If I cannot sin, I am not going in.

[crazypills2]

Here here Mahoivlich.

[4jonah]

heres a bigger question i have: Christians say that there is sorrow on earth so we can distinct it from pleasure. so if heaven is all bliss, even without free will, how can one experience pleasure without sorrow? in other words, wouldnt we expect to find sorrow in heaven to experience the pleasure of eternal bliss?

[livingwaterrevivals]

I'm a christian and I have never said that. Nor should any Christian. Sorrow exists because sin exists.

[4jonah]

so what about someone who dies in a car accident and you grieve for them, or if your child is stillborn, or because your wife is diagnosed with an inoperable brain tumor...is that sin?

[livingwaterrevivals]

No. Sin is disobedience to the commands of God. That is ultimately the definition of sin. People use it out of context all of the time, for example- "It's a sin that you got skipped over for that promotion." In today's culture, society has changed it's meaning, but it's original (and true) definition of sin is what I gave you just now.

[4jonah]

so you will be in heaven and if your loved ones went to hell, how will you enjoy your time in heaven knowing your son is in hell

[livingwaterrevivals]

Because God will wipe away every tear, we will never hunger again, nor thirst- Revelation 7:16-17

Heaven is an ultimate place of perfect joy and peace. Anything that would bring anything different will not be found there, including memories of loved ones not present.

[4jonah]

so if you die before your loved ones, you will be in heaven and not remember them?

how is that love again?

[livingwaterrevivals]

When I die and go to Heaven, the thought of my loved will not even cross my mind. I will be in the presence of Jesus, and that is so crazy, I can hardly even think about what that will be like now. But rest assured, I won't be thinking about anything here on this Earth. Food, music, movies, people, none of it.

[4jonah]

youre right, it is crazy. its fucking insane.

[livingwaterrevivals]

Well, that was very nice of you. Thanks. For a moment, I actually thought someone could have a civil conversation.

[livingwaterrevivals]

You see, my love for Jesus surpasses any love I have for anybody else.

[Sarge084]

You seem to be well informed about what happens in heaven, where did you gain this insight into heavenly existence?

Wouldn't you be better off being a good person and enjoying this life just in case there isn't an afterlife?

[livingwaterrevivals]

I gained the insight through the Bible- the core of my being. Love it =)

No, I wouldn't be better off being a good person and "enjoying my life" in case there isn't an afterlife. First, I do enjoy my life. Jesus brings me more joy than anything ever could. Second, what if there isn't an afterlife? I lose nothing. however, if there is, I may have everything to gain and those others of everything to lose. Third, there's no such thing as a good person- not according to God's standards.

[Sarge084]

I think I'm a good person, I resent you telling me that I'm not. I live my life trying to honest and decent, I don't need the fear of eternal damnation to keep me on the straight and narrow.

[livingwaterrevivals]

I'm not saying that you're not a good person. The Bible says that you're not good based on God's standards. Have you ever lied at all? You're a liar. Ever look at someone in lust? Jesus says you're an adulterer. Ever hated someone? You're the same as a murderer. The standards of God are so high, we cannot achieve them. It only shows us as a race how much we needed Jesus to stand in our place. Because to you, you might be a good person, but in reality, there are no 'good" people.

[livingwaterrevivals]

The Bible says that the very imagination and heart of a man is evil. The Bible also says "there seems a way that is right unto a man, but it's wrong." There is a lot of wisdom in the scriptures, and it's not there to condemn you, it's there to point you to the One that can save you- Jesus. It's the way to salvation, because God does love you and wants the best for you.

[livingwaterrevivals]

Isaiah 64:6

All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away

-Sound dreary, right? That's the condition of man. That is why Jesus came, to take that all away and bring life to the dead, hope to the hopeless, and help to the helpless. Being "good" by human standards falls short every time, because none of us are "good" enough.

[LifeinaRaindrop]

That's all true... if you're a bum. Work hard and enjoy life, none of that seems so.

[livingwaterrevivals]

I do work hard, and I do enjoy life. You have to work hard to pay the bills. The Bible even says tat if a man doesn't work, he shouldn't eat.

However, if there is no afterlife, and this is all there is, then working hard and enjoyment are meaningless anyways. If life is a total accident, then there is no meaning or purpose- all of that stuff is an illusion, created by our accidental imaginations.

[Sarge084]

Ah, so it's the bible that is evil, wrong and sets standards so high that we cannot achieve them, heads your god wins, tails we lose, just as well I don't follow that work of fiction.

Belive in yourself, follow your own conscience, you don't need a god to do your thinking for you.

[livingwaterrevivals]

I assure you, it's not a work of fiction.

If I followed my own conscience and my own desires, I would have killed myself about 10 years ago when I desired to do so. What determines what is right and wrong? Some cultures practice cannibalism and they think they are ok. We know that is wrong, but what makes it wrong? Right and wrong, truth and lie, none of that is relative.

[Sarge084]

What determines what is right and wrong. Rational thought, certainly not some 2000 year old tome cobbled together by man.

The bible is the last place to look for what is right and wrong, if it were, slavery, rape and murder would be acceptable.

[livingwaterrevivals]

It's all done away with with the cross of Christ.

People rape, murder, and practice slavery today without the help of the Bible. The Bible cannot be blamed for the corruption of man.

[livingwaterrevivals]

You say rational thought, but who decides what is rational? Each individual person? To some tribes, it's rational to eat another person. In other cases, it's rational to sacrifice children. Who are you to tell them they are wrong? Or, do you think they are fine?

[Sarge084]

Who are you to dictate what is acceptable in different cultures and societies! Have you considered that their religion, the true religion (In their mind.) is right and you're wrong.

In Christianity it's rational to sacrifice children, women are chattel and slavery is the norm, try reading the Old Testament, a right blood thirsty guide to correctness.

[livingwaterrevivals]

The things in the old testament, once again, were done away with by the cross of Jesus. When He bore the pains and afflictions on the cross, He took death and the things that bring death with Him.Christianity isn't about those things, it's about the teachings of Christ and following His way. You ask me who am I to tell someone in a different culture what's right and wrong, when you do the same thing to me- telling me I am wrong.

[LifeinaRaindrop]

You need a goal of an afterlife to have a good time on earth and enjoy it?

[Sarge084]

You might do, but not everyone is you!

[livingwaterrevivals]

I don't quite get your response. I know not everyone is me, and not everyone holds to the same beliefs as myself. My question is, ultimately, who decides who is right? Also, how do we know? Some people think some things are ok, some do not. What is the deciding factor?

[Sarge084]

Certainly not a 2000 year old book, or a preacher/priest/minister who may be just as fallible as you or I. Ted Haggart was a good example of Christianity, do as I say, not as I do.

[livingwaterrevivals]

Ted fell into sin and it destroyed his life. He is just as human and fallible as the rest of us. That is why it is so important to be covered by the grace of God.

[Sarge084]

So by being a Christian you can't do wrong eh, commit the vilest of sins, repent and ask for forgiveness.

It's a cop out, why not try to do right by your fellow man instead of falling back on some old book and a skydaddy. Get a grip and take responsibility for your own life.

[livingwaterrevivals]

All sins can be forgiven. Living a lifestyle of sin is not in the fruit of the believer. Jesus says you will recognize a tree by the fruit it bears. A good tree cannot bare bad fruit. But by the way, I've dedicated my life to the service of others. Not that I am gloating or anything, but I work for a non-profit that provides needs to people who lack. Also, If I took responsibility for my own life, I would be hell-bound. Jesus took my responsibility on His cross.

[Sarge084]

'Bangs head on wall'

[livingwaterrevivals]

lol it's a killer, isn't it =P

[livingwaterrevivals]

Jesus was the best humanitarian that has ever lived. His model is the best to follow when in the service of others. His salvation is the only way to Heaven. It's a win-win.

[MaikUniversum]

wow. What about other gods and other prophets ?

[livingwaterrevivals]

They are sent of the devil, those deceitful spirits, to lead man astray and hide the truth. 1 John 2:18

The devil is a liar, and the father of lies. He has always perverted God's order, in every aspect.

[livingwaterrevivals]

When I asked you earlier "who are you to say," I didn't mean YOU in particular. I meant that you are just another person, and someone else would see you as another person.

I also do not claim that I am the authority on the truth. That is God.

[livingwaterrevivals]

No, I am saying that a "good time" is just an illusion if there is no God, no after life, and life is just an accident. It's more of like a philosophical debate more than anything. If life came from nothingness by chance and accident, and we are just products of evolution with no ultimate purpose or meaning, then laws, emotions, vacations- they are all illusions and we are all delusional. Outside of heartbeat, bloodflow, and basic survival, everything is products of our imaginations.

[LifeinaRaindrop]

What's so wrong with an illusion like that? What means anything to me is MY children's happiness, my art I create, the things that make everyone happy around me that tend to be good things, without god saying if it is right or wrong or whatever.

What tells me this universe exists is the scientists who dissect the very fabric of the cosmos - but beyond that, it doesn't matter at all, life is good, and I'll do what I can to have my children's children life be well.

[livingwaterrevivals]

Life is good, I whole-heartedly agree. But without Jesus, life is meaningless and void.

You asked, "whats wrong with an illusion like that?" The answer is- it's just that. An illusion. You can't justify any opinion that you have, because life would ultimately be an illusion. It wouldn't be "good" at all.

[8journey8]

Things I am: A wife A mother. A grandmother. An artist. A traveler. A lover of things beautiful. An avid reader. A joke teller. A raucous laugher. A loyal friend.A walk goer A dreamer. A (terrible)singer. A cockeyed optimist. A thinker.

Things I am not: A god believer.

I was a christian, till I examined it all....I know you don't *get*it, but my life is so much better now...As an atheist, my life is rich and happy. I know your religion makes you arrogantly say my life is meaningless. UR Wrong

[livingwaterrevivals]

I seriously cannot see how you have a relationship with Christ and then say He doesn't exist. That's like saying my mother doesn't exist.

if you are an atheist, your life is, ultimately, purposeless. If you're an atheist, you believe life is happen-chance. You cannot justify an opinion, because opinions are ultimately an illusion. So are laws, emotions, political things, the concept of something being "beautiful," all of it doesn't matter at all, because when you die, who cares?

[8journey8]

I'm not going to stay long: let me say: I was where you are 3 years ago. You have your jesus earplugs in and cannot/will not hear replies. I say: read the bible like a book, beginning to end.The character of your god is contained in those pages. You'll be surprised.

This god you are telling us is so super swell has a delinquent history. He did some horrible things in his past and would like everyone to forget about it...and people do. His fans go on about how righteous he is...Read the book!!

[livingwaterrevivals]

I've studied the book for several years and I know there is a lot to learn, but I've also been in ministry for several years and I am not exactly ignorant. I know about the old testament, and it had horrible things in it. The terrible judgments that God had to pass on was ultimately due to a group of "spirit-people" known as the nephilim. They are mentioned in Genesis 6, But there is another document called Enoch, made by Enoch, that explains them in detail. Enoch is Noah's grandfather.

[livingwaterrevivals]

Now the thing about the Nephilim, is that they are the offspring of fallen angels and mortal women. They are described in Genesis 6. However, Enoch goes into great detail about those fallen angels and how much corruption they brought onto the world. The art of war, astrology, and many other things were brought here and taught to humans by them. It actually explains the origins of many things that God wants to wipe out. But man loves evil, and keeps it around.

[8journey8]

Now see? Here is where you have to go off on all that crazy talk about demons and angels and witches and spirit people. It sounds a lot like a silly made up tale, you know; a convoluted concoction to explain stuff to superstitious people.

As an atheist, I live in the real world, and while it's not all lollipops and rainbows, neither is it an evil place with devils hiding in shadows. Life is what you make it. Life's sweet. G'night.

As a person who lives in the real world, my life is a

[8journey8]

contd..

delightful, filled with family, friends and love from Real people.

[livingwaterrevivals]

1 Corinthians 2:14-

The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. - My life is also delightful, filled with family, friends, and love from real people. That has nothing to do with eternity. This world is but a shadow of the real world. It was good talking to you, and I hope to see you 'round the internet! (feel free to contact me anytime if you want)

[livingwaterrevivals]

There is no reason to be loyal, there is no reason to mourn a loss, there is no point to anything- this is all there is, and anything other than pure basic survival is ultimately meaningless and only exists because man made it up in his mind and we are all delusional.

[livingwaterrevivals]

So what I am trying to say is, it is not my Jesus that says your life is meaningless, it is your own philosophy. Your own worldview.

[8journey8]

Atheism isn't a philosophy. Or a world view. It means having no belief in a deity. Really simple.

[livingwaterrevivals]

I do read replies and take them into consideration when making my own rebuttal. You say that atheism isn't a philosophy or worldview, but just a lack in belief in a deity. However, what the belief in no deity implies will ultimately give you a philosophy or worldview, just like having faith in a deity will. So yes, you do have a philosophy and worldview that is shaped by your core spiritual (or lack of) beliefs.

[8journey8]

Okay, okay, one last reply, then I'm headed off to bed.. It is in our nature as humans to desire to raise children in safety and love them, and help them to also love. It has nothing to do with an (imagined) god whom no one has met that is distilled from a book written thousands of years ago.

Religious people love the idea of all this cloak and dagger satan stuff: celestial battles for souls going on overhead, unseen by the naked eye. Me? I see reality: a summer day, light breeze,blue sky. Nice

[livingwaterrevivals]

You can't really say that's it's human nature to want to raise children with love. and safety. My father was an alcoholic that abused me whenever he had the chance, and constantly reminded me that I was an accident. Heck, we have people on this earth that eat their babies, drown them in bath tubs, and put them in microwaves. You can shield your eyes from the truth if you want to, but that doesn't mean the truth changes.

[lothrazar]

whats wrong with an illusion? well, illusions are not real. The idea that life is meaningless without religion is an illusion, because gods are illusions.

[livingwaterrevivals]

I don't have religion, I have Jesus Christ- an actual person that actually existed and died for me in my place, and I live by the example He left.

Tell me, how did everything we see come from absolutely nothing, if there is no God? How did anything first poof itself into being? Have you ever witnessed any rock, tree, or living thing create itself?

[MaikUniversum]

did jesus mentioned your named before "death" ? If NO, then he didn't die for you. He died (if he really died) for IDEA, not for the people :)

[livingwaterrevivals]

No sir, He died for all who would call on His name to be saved, John 3:16.

He didn't die for an idea, He died because we are terrible people that do terrible things.

[MaikUniversum]

Hm... You do not get it. Ok, all this scapegoating thing drives me crazy.

People are NOT terrible. At least, not all of them. So don't say, that all people are evil. Some - yes. Majority ? - No.

[livingwaterrevivals]

Maybe to you, but God's standards are high. Have you ever lied? That makes you a liar. Ever stolen anything? You're a thief. Ever look at someone in lust? Jesus says you're an adulterer. Ever hate anyone? Jesus says you're a murderer.

Romans 3:23 - All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Isaiah 64:6- all of our righteousness are as filthy rags. That means on our best day, we're only as good as filthy rags. It says that evem our imaginations are evil.

[MaikUniversum]

Oh, so you know god's standarts ? Have you had a conversation recently ? Did you murder anyone ? No ? So you are NOT MURDERER :) Just like me. And many people are nor murderers too. Stop citing that shit. I need YOUR arguments, not ancient book.

[livingwaterrevivals]

I'll have you know that Martin Luther King Jr. cited that same "shit" when he was leading the civil rights movement, and he died for that "shit" too. Watch your tone, there's a lot you don't know.

But yes, I do know God's standards, because Jesus has revealed them to us in Matthew 5. You can try to justify yourself if you want to, but it will end in death. For the wages of sin are death, but the gift of God is eternal life.Romans 6:23

[livingwaterrevivals]

Romans 3:10- There is none righteous, no not one.

We are all so dysfunctional, I am surprised we can still breathe. Humans say that everyone is unique, but we're really all the same. We all have a void. An emptiness. Some try to fill it wil sex, drugs, alcohol, parties, entertainment, you name it. God is the only one that can fill that void in us all.

[MaikUniversum]

You are surprised, that through evolutionary process humans "got" lungs ? Well, educate yourself, you will be surprised even more. Humans say we are all unique and YOU ARE HUMAN, who says something different. Do you representgod here ?

God is an illusion so it WON'T fill the void. You can not fill VOID with VOID.

PEACE.

[livingwaterrevivals]

Did you just say lungs evolved? Evolution is a deceitful message, friend. Evolution is propaganda, and I could send you tons of resources exposing it for the lie that it is. But you would have to be the one with the open mind, not I. Why? Because I was where you are at one point, so I know both sides of the story. I'll ask you a question, but don't answer. think about it yourself- have YOU ever seen anything appear on it's own, with no outside influence? A rock, tree, or any living thing?

[MaikUniversum]

Thank you. I have nothing to say to you. You deny reality.

PEACE,

[livingwaterrevivals]

So, in other words, you cannot come up with something to defend that lie called evolution. It's ok, because no one can, and justify it with actual, real science. I hope you ponder the question that I have presented. I hope that it sinks in. The truth is out there. What you could consider reality could be very deceptive. It is easy for man to be deceived.

I wish you well, friend. Take care!

[MaikUniversum]

Actually, I can, but YouTube is VERY VERY bad site for discussion. If you have courage, come to richarddawkins forum, and then me or any other user will try to educate you about evolution and importantly - about scientific method and how it works. Ok ? There are christians like you too. So you won't be "alone".

[livingwaterrevivals]

I'll check it out. Look for something with "living water" in it. Yes, I do have courage. It doesn't take courage to reject evolution. What is the web site?

[MaikUniversum]

search in google for "richarddawkins forum" and you will find the link, because Youtube censores url's. :) I just have to inform you, that forum rules forbids preaching. That's all.

[livingwaterrevivals]

Oh and one more thing for the record-

Richard Dawkins may have degrees in biology, but you can have 32 degrees and be frozen solid. Ray Comfort offered Dawkins several thousand dollars to debate with him publicly, and Dawkins turned him down. hmmm....wonder why that is....

[MaikUniversum]

Did you saw a debate by Thunderf00t and Ray Comfort ? I encourage you to watch it.

By the way, Dawkins said many times that he will NOT debate creationists. So you can ignore facts if you want but just come to the forum, and you will get answers to your questions about life, universe and everything :) Don't be afraid.

PEACE.

[NoAntecessor]

Where the devil in evolutionary theory is something appearing "on it's own, with no outside influence"? Everything in biology is the result of naturally occuring forces, laws, and resources. There's no magical popping into existence involved. Ironic as the religions most fundamentalists espouse are the ones claiming that god poofed stuff out of nowhere.

[mmmhm234]

So let's explain how the very first living thing came into being why don't we? Follow "evolution" as far back as you possibly can. What's the result?

[NoAntecessor]

Very primitive organisms and a variety of explanations for how they could have arisen through natural laws, materials, and processes occuring on the earth.

[livingwaterrevivals]

So, you do believe that things form themselves from thin air, then? If not, Please, explain to me how things came into being with no outside force if there is no creator. It is not assumptions that say the universe had a discrete beginning, it's common sense. I am not trying to project my beliefs on you, I am just trying to get you, and people like you, to explain yours. You all seem like you can't, and I am just hoping that it raises a red flag for you.

[NoAntecessor]

Thin air? There was more than thin air. There were nucleotides and organic compounds present in the early earth environment, simple sugars, lipids (all these chemicals form naturally in the absence of life in a primitive earth environment). No outside forces? There were sunlight, gravity, countless physical forces present. If you like I could link to you a video describing various theories more in depth (there are a few competing ideas for how early simple life may have originated).

[livingwaterrevivals]

So the sun and all of those things you mentioned just sort of made themselves, then.

I understand completely. I didn't know sugar was that smart. Silly me for actually thinking there may be a God that exists outside of time and space that has a purpose for tings and that my life isn't completely void of any meaning.

[NoAntecessor]

"Made itself" implies it had some sort of conscious action. The sun was created by natural forces, forces we can explain. If you like I can link a video for you explaining in some detail how we believe the sun formed. As to sugar being that smart, I'm not talking about what comes out of refined sugar canes (sucrose). Also, I definitely think life isn't devoid of meaning, I just think you have to give it your own :)

[livingwaterrevivals]

If you think that there is no God and no creator, then ultimately, you do think that like is purposeless and meaningless. If we are all genetic accidents, then everything outside of pure, basic survival, is an illusion. Laws, emotions, art, music, warm fuzzy feelings, all of those are figments of human imagination, as is imagination itself, and we are ALL delusional. You giving your own life meaning is also an illusion. That's what you are ultimately saying.

[NoAntecessor]

Truly meaningful lives are the ones where people are aware of their origins and make the consious decision of what they want to be. As to "genetic accidents", natural selection is a non-random action, one with a long and epic history. Laws, emotions, art, etc, these are not figments of the human imagination, they are complex expressions of what we are. They are the result of endless millenia of selection. When you live as a group for aeons, it's NOT just "pure, basic survival" as an individual.

[livingwaterrevivals]

"when you live as a group for aeons, it's NOT..."

So, why do ants not have a booming entertainment industry? Don't they live on the land, like humans? Also, donkeys, cows, dogs, cats, etc. Why didn't they evolve the exact same way humans did? We all live in the same place, and we have for aeons, as you say.

[NoAntecessor]

Ants aren't like solitary creatures (well, except for a few species of non-communal ants in south america, which live much like spiders and predate other bugs). Most of them sacrifice the ability to procreate and devote their entire lives to the good of the colony. They aren't conscious,but their actions are definitely altruistic. As for animals all developing the same, that's absurd. We all have vastly different habits in order to survive in different ways. PM for a detailed explanation.

[JonathanClement140]

God damnit, NO! Humans HAD to evolve average intelligence for the necessity of survival!

[JonathanClement140]

It's NOT meaningless and it's NOT an illusion! How the fuck are those things illusions? Are you so weak that you can't think for yourself? Why can't you enjoy the time that you KNOW you have?

[livingwaterrevivals]

It actually is ALL meaningless if no purpose exists. The entire point to purpose is to not be meaningless. In case you didn't know, "purpose" and "meaningless" are two completely different ideas, so life is EITHER purposeful or meaningless. It cannot be both. Are you saying there is a purpose to things? If you are, then you are not an atheist who says we evolved by freak accident. You cannot say we DID evolve by ACCIDENT, yet still have purpose.

[JonathanClement140]

@livingwaterrevivals The purpose is what you give it.

[livingwaterrevivals]

Even if you are the cause of the purpose, if no one gave you purpose, your purpose is an illusion all created and drafted up by your own imagination, because anything other than basic survival instinct should be considered delusional. Why does someone enjoy a good movie? It has nothing to do with survival of the fittest or adapting to your environment.

[livingwaterrevivals]

By saying there is a purpose, you say there is a designer. Because if there was no designer, as you say, then there is no purpose. This is a concept that has nothing to do with "thinking for yourself," as an insulting person like yourself would put it. If you actually "thought for yourself," as you instruct me to do, you would follow the logic of the philosophical implications of atheism which I have gone into detail about here.

[JonathanClement140]

We DON'T KNOW where the universe came from! Also, E=MC^2 proves that the universe IS eternal in some way or another.

[mmmhm234]

well how did all these things come about?

[NoAntecessor]

Which things? The laws of the universe? Matter and energy? Science certainly hasn't got there yet. I freely admit I don't know everything. But to put a supernatural force in areas we do not yet understand has proved a mistake in the past.

[juggaloryan3]

ever check out aronra's videos? that shoul help you out a lot. ;0)

[livingwaterrevivals]

Well, I was going to tell you to go back to the very beginning, but someone's beat me to it. Secular naturalism relies on faith that "everything came from nothing with no outside influence.' If you DON'T believe this, you believe there is a creator, and therefor, you are a creationist. Congrats!

[NoAntecessor]

Secular naturalism (belief in reality) does not rely on faith that "everything came from nothing with no outside influence". You're assuming there was a start to everything, that the laws and contents of the universe had a discrete beginning, before which there was nothing. Don't project your beliefs onto me, tyvm :)

[crazypills2]

4jonah,

This is one of the arguments for the creation of evil. If there was no evil, then there could be no understanding of good.

[JosephSchejtman]

Nice video.

As always, religion has it's huge flaws.

What's the music called?

[crazypills2]

Thanks JosephSchejtman. The music is March from the Magic Flute.

[emeralds222]

Ecellent video. I wouldn't mind seeing the crazy pills clip with every video you make, though.... or a version you create. That is exactly how I feel over and over again with the brainwashed sheeple lemmings.

[crazypills2]

Thanks emeralds222. I almost included the crazy pills clip with this video, but thought people were sick of it.

[emeralds222]

I think it keeps me sane knowing how many other people get frustrated..

Will Farrell does it soo well it would be hard to match .

I'm going right now to another video of yours so I can see it again lol