wtf i came to see reg park and i read comments about steroids and if he took etc.should we really give a fuck if he did?I mean his dead now, so lets stop the bull.
G.Hackenschmidt's 1898 361 lb BP wasn't beaten by more than 2 pounds for over 50 years. J.Williams had the last -truly- raw record, 675 in a loose "Fruit of the Loom" undershirt, & no belt, almost 40 years ago,1972,(he barely missed 700 that day). S.Mendelson's -technically- raw 715 in 2005 looks to stay safe for a while, as interest in SHW raw BPs has dwindled. The R.Kennelly's 1,075's safe til they make a better shirt. Assuming RK'd do 716 raw if he could, the shirt lifted 360 all by itself!
Strongman Doug Hepburn, only man to bench 500 before Reg, was at least 60 lbs heavier, had a physique better suited to big benches, & dedicated more time to big lifts. Today, they'd be in different weight classes.
Steroid accusations reference '49: 21yr-old Reg came to US, supposedly added 50Lbs 'overnight'. 1/ He weighed 225 in early '50s. I find it difficult to believe he was the top UK '49 BBer @ 6'1",175!. 2/ He was 21, plenty room for growth. 3/ Steroids weren't known to York BBers until '54. I find it even more difficult to believe that Joe Weider knew about them 5yrs earlier! 4/This is all Roger Walker's story, one jealous BBer who couldn't get his timeline straight. No one else.
What people mean by 600 pounds by todays standard is the amout of nutrition and supplements that are available today that where not in the early 50's, and this bench was in the 50's when so it says only 1 other person too do it, for fucks sake use your brains.
450, not 540. He never went heavier than 450. His best sets were 405x8, 315x25, and 225x60. He was much better with high rep sets and the lower the weight went, the better his sets got.
If you do your history research, you will learn that steroids were not used in America until 1954. Among the first few to try them were John Grimek. Park was always within 1 pound of his first contest weight whenever he competed over a 20 year span -- he was never on the juice and built all of his size and strength naturally! A 500 raw bench on a naturl, lean, proportioned body like that - one of the all-time strength feats if you ask me.
Park was the greatest ever in bodybuilding. Without his influence the 5x5 program would have no doubt taken years to enter the landscape. The 5x5 program was the reason Park was such a monstrous guy. Even today with the roid crowd he would be considered massive.
As to the question of steroids, the first was Dianabol, invented by Dr. John Ziegler and manufactured by Ciba Pharmaceutical in 1964.
Park competed right into his 40s, his longevity in the sport was unmatched.
Steroids were not invented by the Nazis. Testosterone derivatives are not the same thing as AAS (androgenic anabolic steroids). The Germans during WW2 nor the Russians in the '50s had steroids as we know them today. What they did have was 2 forms of testosterone -- ie, in cypionate or aqueous suspension (oil or water). The first 'real' AAS was invented by John Ziegler while at Ciba in 1958. This was the early version of Dianabol. It was refined & given to York lifters in 1964.
Testosterone is a steroid hormone. There are many different steroids as you well know, but you're speaking of synthetic steroid hormones, many of which today are many times more anabolic and androgenic than simple test injections.
@Ludichris8531 really?..what are they?...i only know of a couple, anapolan and anadrol. both of which are highly toxic. the pro's still prefer test over any other AAS and the phrase "test is best" is well known in the game.
Huh? No pro's take steroids that won't come up on drug tests. Also, there are many steroids that have lower conversion rates to DHT and estrogen as well as being far more anabolic and less androgenic so as to minimize side effects. Other than cyclists, you'll find few pro athletes that are on regular test injections. Unless you were talking about something else entirely and I don't realize it.
@nuclearsharkattack my understanding is that athletes had access to dbol prior to the 1960 olympics and shortly after that gym rats were getting it. most serious bodybuilders were eating dbol like candy by 1964.
@nuclearsharkattack Testosterone was first synthesized in the 1930's and was introduced into the sporting arena in the 1940's and 1950's.
When the Russian weight lifting team thanks, in part, to synthetic testosterone-walked off with a pile of medals at the 1952 Olympics, an American physician determined that U. S. competitors should have the same advantage.
Yes, Reg loved sun bathing. When he wasn't working out, he was typically sun bathing by the poolside... Unfortunately not too many people were aware of the danger of fair skinned people sun bathing for hours at a time during this period.
For those of you who doubt Park was natural, perhaps you should know that he won his first bodybuilding title in 1951, weighing in at 215lbs - steroids didnt enter bodybuilding until 1956.
It just goes to show what can be achieved when a great work ethic is mixed with great genes.
dude anabolic steroids were available since 1935, not saying he didn't do steroids but who knows. Know for a fact soviet were abusing them hard in the mid 50's.
Arnold said at this guys funeral or memorial ( which is on youtube ) that 500 pounds back then on a becn press is equivalent to 600 today because of all the suplements and aids today. So his bench was very impressive for that time and i think even today. Cause hes not wearing a powerlifting suit of nothing just raw power
@hellokatter 500 pounds is 500 pounds, there is no equivalent from then to now, it all remains the same, if arnold actually said that it is the dumbest thing he has ever said
@dutchstrongman arnie did in reg parks memorial on youtube, it sounds very valid considering it took people very long to do it e.g. reg park being the 2nd to do so.
@hellokatter im sorry you cant say that benching 500 then is like benching 600 today, thats totally idiotic, what is the weight of a pound different today than it was back then, no, there are just more ppl striving to do it today then there were back then that mixed with rampant steroid use and voila more 500 pound benchers
@hellokatter yes your last comment was absolutely stupid, your saying that just because its 20 - 30 years later bench pressing 500 pounds is easier, or that in order to have benched 500 pounds then u would have to bench 600 pounds today, im sorry, working out was not nearly as big back then as now, mor eppl are lifting and lifting competitively these days thats why we have mor e500 pound benchers today, not because of fucking supplements, those guys were all juicing back then
@dutchstrongman and guys arent juicing now LOL they are riddled with them. Actually people are f---ing lazy nowadays, and dnt do crap. More people lifting things back in the day not neccasarily barbells etc but you get the picture, btw supplements like supa roid guy have these day do help
a bodybuilder / football player / security guard recently told me that melanoma would be just as much a result of steroid abuse as would be arthritis, liver cancer, etc etc.
y u so mad i mean this was BEFORE ANYONE even knew steriods was bad for you - and he never took them at this time, and it was DOCTORES that FIRST subsribed them to BODYBUILDERS thinking it was safe, then they did it to the olimpic teams of usa and russia. SO SHUT UP AND DONT JUDGE EVERY gd nice guy as bad.
@moorigs I HAVE A 1976 Muscle Mag International with an article on CALF DEVELPOMENT by REG PARK. he is pictures doing Seated calf raises with over 600 lbs. and leg press machine calf raises with over 800 lbs . His age approx . 45
Over 53 years later, the raw record is 715, only 215 lbs more, held by a guy who weighs over 100lbs more, w/wide grip, barrel chest & short arms causing the bar's travel to be about -half- the distance Park's moving it ! This is benching the way we did it a home in the 60s to see how much we could do w/the same exercise we were using to build our bodies, not some specially altered lift to gain every possible advantage.This is still a record in my book.
you are right, most benchers today rely on elasticized spandex rubber band shirts that rebound the weight off your chest like a spring coil.I say why depend on all that support gear because your not lifting the weight on your own.Your cheating the weight.
The 'best' shirts need 300lbs pressed against them just to get the bar all the way down to the lifters chest! Not so coincidentally, the record 'raw' bench and the record 'shirted' bench are often held by the same guy, Scott Mendelson, and his raw record is 300lbs less than his shirted.
No. World record -now-, 715, is by the 320-330 lb Scott Mendelson, who's held the record for many years. Park's best filmed BP is this one, 500. I don't know if Reg bothered to ever do more or not, but he weighed about 215 when he did this, in 1954. Between his much lower weight, the total absence of organized competiton 54 years ago & his long bodybuilder arms/relatively shallow chest, (vs short arms/barrel chests of modern powerlifters), this is still the most impressive BP of all.
His arms aren't even that long. This isn't the most impressive bench press of all. Lol. This guy was on steroids even back then as were all of the big name BBers at the time because they weren't illegal to take and they got prescriptions from their doctors. If you want truly impressive benches, look at Dennis Cieri's recent 535 at a body weight of 198 pounds in competition. You must note that benching with a competition pause typically takes about 30-50 pounds off what you can do touch and go.
In fact, if you watch a slideshow video on youtube entitled "Reg Park The Greatest Bodybuilder" at 2:29 into the video you'll see a picture of Reg and Arnold together and Reg's arms are VERY much shorter than arnolds and they were the same height. Arnold truly had long arms. Reg, not so much and I'm not sure where you came up with that theory. Benching 500 pounds is impressive, but a high school student benched 510 at 228 pounds two years ago with a pause and he had arms about that long.
@L:3D-to-2D Illusion. 1/Reg's hands're raised higher than Arnold's. 2/ Men aren't at the same camera distance, nor same angle, making Arnold's head & shoulder a few inches lower than Reg's, thus his arm hangs lower. 3/ Earlier shot w/ very long-armed Steve Reeves doesn't make Reg short-armed by comparison.4/ Yes, Arnold's arms're perhaps a bit longer than the 6'1", also long-armed Reg's. 5/ Why compare a '54/500 to '08/228? , a weight Reg could likely lift the day he began training ?
Learn to read. The 18 year old kid benched 510 at 228. That means a BODYWEIGHT of 228 but benched 510 pounds. And he did so with a competition, pause. This bench in this video is touch and go and he's on steroids. A paused competition 510 is the same as a touch and go 540. Also, regardless of arm position and camera angle, Arnold had much longer arms. Reg simply doesn't have long arms. That's clear in all pictures of him.
Oops, I meant "with a competition pause". Disregard the comma. Dennis Cieri benched 535 drug tested with a pause and he only weighed 198 pounds. He doesn't have short arms and he benches flat footed with basically no arch in his back. That is a more impressive bench than a touch and go 500 pound bench on steroids.
And actually yes, they're at the same distance and both squared up to the camera, there is not foreshortening effect. Arnold simply had arms that were easily about 5 inches longer per arm.
@Ludichris8531 I cop to poor reading , but disagree on photo. For them to be so widely varied would mean either AS 's freakishly long-armed or RP's freakishly short-armed, yet neither is the case, as can be seen in solo shots. (Check Sergio's photos for freakish arm-to-height proportion.) Compared to most PLers Reg's long-armed & flat-chested, thus a longer bar travel. Compared to most BBers or PLers Reg's tall, thus must have somewhat long arms to be as well-proportioned as he is.
Arnold DID have freakishly long armed and talked about that at times. He mentioned it in his encyclopedia of bodybuilding. Reg, simply didn't have long arms though, they were not disproportionate to his height at all. He also isn't tall in comparison to the strongest raw benchers of all time. He's only 6'1". James Henderson is 6'4", Scot Mendelson is 6'1", Ryan Kennelly is 6'2". It's all about having long arms in proportion to your height, not the actual length of the arm itself.
L:Reg's tall: For his arms to be in proportion, they're long. Compare to SHW lifters, chest's much flatter, arms thinner, thus more extreme fold in bottom position; longer bar travel. / I allow for Arnold's arms to be longer, but NOT 5" each! Perhaps his span's 5" greater: both arms & hands w/fingers extended plus shoulder width, & still not as wide as Sergio's span. BBers dont measure span/reach, but I'd bet 6'1" Sonny Liston's 84" span,(what -I'd- refer to as freakish),is meaningfully wider.
@lazur1 *56-plus* years later, w/all the associated advantages: Superior supplements, training methods, coaching, equipment, lifting techniques,100 more pounds bodyweight on physiques best suited for BPing (as opposed to BBing), & a -culture- of dedicated SWH BP competition attracting a talent-pool that was non-existent in 1954..adds up to another 213Lbs on the raw BP. This makes Reg look good.
As someone who's closing in on a 500 pound raw bench press without ever having used drugs, I can tell you that it's simply not THAT impressive of a feat regardless of the time it was accomplished especially because he was on steroids. The exercises really haven't changed that'll get you there at all. His arms simply weren't long in proportion to the rest of his body and his body wasn't particularly huge, he was only 6'1", not a giant. He also performed this touch and go, not paused.
@Ludichris8531 There are high school kids "closing in" on Olympic records of 56 years ago, too. I don't believe this changes the historical importance of these achievements. His arms were -in- proportion to his body, thus long. The fact that he was not a giant is supposed to be -my- point ; - )
@Ludichris8531 6'1" -is- tall, for a 220 Lb bench presser, thus his arms, (being in proportion to his height), -were- long, for the -lift-, -not- for his -height-.
His arms aren't long. Being taller doesn't make the lift harder at all. Having long arms in proportion to your height is what makes the lift more difficult mechanically speaking. And the reason he was as light as he was is that his legs were so woefully underdeveloped compared to most in the powerlifting world.
@Ludichris8531 Distance the bar travels is a major factor. A flatter chest does matter. Proportion of arm length to height means nothing. Proportion of arm length to arm thickness means a lot. Proportion of arm length to chest & shoulder width means a lot. Proportion of arm length to chest thickness means a lot. There are many big bench press specialists who do very little for their legs.
There aren't many big bench specialist that do very little for their legs. Dennis Cieri is one of the very few who trains his legs minimally, but the "big" bench specialists squat religiously because you don't maximize your bench unless you squat heavy. Ryan Kennelly, Scot Mendelson, Jeremy Hoornstra etc. all squat very heavy. Oh, and back to your little rant about arm length. It's moot, why? because Reg Park didn't have anything that would qualify as long arms.
@Ludichris Reg also trained his legs religiously. Sorry you don't like them. One look at the upper bodies of any of the guys you mentioned proves their weight difference has very little to do with their legs :-) No matter what reasons you accept or don't: The distance the bar travels for Reg's BP is noticeably greater than the big bps of today. How much you lift & how far you lift it .
The guy's I just mentioned have all performed squats in excess of 800 pounds. And it IS about how much and how far you lift it, and it's also about whether or not you pause. So, if you take into account how much he lifted, 500 pounds, how far he lifted it, not terribly far because he doesn't have long arms, and the fact that he didn't pause at the bottom, Reg Park's lift is simply not very impressive. It's not that much weight, it wasn't paused, and he doesn't have long arms.
@Ludichris8531 All one has to do is look to see Reg moves the bar farther than modern BPers do. Those guys you mention also weigh 100 plus Lbs more than Reg, who, at 225, could squat 600 Lbs, which back then more closely resembled a deep Olympic squat rather than a typical powerlifter's parallel squat. (Another very meaningful achievement, by the way : - )
No, I'm comparing it to Michael McDonald, and Dennis Cieri. Michael McDonald was under 220 pounds when he hit 582 pounds with a pause in competition 31 years ago. Dennis Cieri paused 535 with a body weight of 197 pounds completely drug tested under the very strictest conditions (IPF fed rules). Those are both far more impressive bench presses by guy's with much smaller chests than Reg Park.
@Ludichris8531If you're more impressed, you're more impressed. I think you're can see what -I'm- more impressed by : - ) I'm not as sure as you that Reg took steroids, but: The main effect is protein synthesis..increased lean mass.thus a 225 lb lean man is a 225 lb lean man, no matter how achieve this state. He'll have greater strength potential compared to himself at a lesser weight, but a steroid-acheived gain has no strength advantage over that same lean 225 lb gained naturally.
Uh, first, that's not true. Steroids don't simply increase protein synthesis, they enhance the function of the central nervous system and allow you to operate at a much higher level power and speed before you even gain muscle mass. That's why your strength takes a massive dive when you go off of them. You're more impressed by a guy who did something a long time ago on drugs because you don't seem to see that he doesn't have long arms, didn't lift that much weight, at didn't pause the weight.
@Ludichris8531 I'd be impressed with the 470. Reg never did take a big dive in strength, until the very end , of course. He looked like a -strong- 50 year old when he turned 70. The more you insist Reg was on drugs, the more i realize you believe things you don't actually know, yet ypu -don't- believe things you can see.
How on earth would you know what Reg's strength levels were at any given part of the year? Now YOU'RE just making shit up. And yes, Reg Park was on steroids. Please do further research and you fill discover this. During Reg's career steroids were VERY prevalent and just about all elite bodybuilders took them because...dum dum DUUUUUUM...they weren't illegal or tested for in BBing competitions.
@Ludichris8531 They weren't illegal, they weren't tested for, all
else is a big assumption. You don't seem to think that Reg having been a young-looking, very muscular 70 year-old had any bearing on this. I do. I think this indicates a good likelihood that he could keep his mass via natural means. I'll assume you figure he just kept taking steroids : - )
uh, no, you're not really making a qualifying point here. Reg may have been in good shape for a guy who was 70, but that doesn't mean he didn't take steroids when he was younger. Arnold took steroids in the 1960's, 1970's and even into the early 80s. Arnold is 62 right now and easily gets into very muscular shape when it's time to make a movie that requires it. Oh and Sylvester Stallone? Yeah he's 64 and he's still on steroids and was caught smuggling hGH on a plane.
@Ludichris8531 Arnold began making his last actually-seen movie when he was 53, & is nowhere near as muscular as in his youth anytime after 'Conan'. Reg was huge at 70.
Ugh, ok, Arnold was GIANT in 2003 when Terminator 3 came out. FAR bigger than Reg Park was WHEN HE COMPETED. Learn more about bodybuilding, learn more about powerlifting, get off Reg Park's nuts, he wasn't that strong, and research him more because Reg was actually known at the time as one of the pioneers of steroids in bbing. People who believe otherwise simply don't know enough about him. Oh and he competed WELL into 1960s and everyone was on steroids. Please leave me alone now.
@Ludichris8531 Mid-50s Arnold's nowhere near full size in that film. Reg may be "known" as whatever you wish, to guys like you, talking among yourselves: Every time you hear what you already believe it seems like evidence, but it's just another gossip, who probably read it on a post of yours! Steroids speed up progress, but that same progress can be made naturally over longer periods. Reg trained those longer periods.
There's also another factor to this. Steroids are not all the same. Steroids that bbers use promote cell volumization whereas those taken by professional athletes and powerlifters minimize size gains but maximize strength. That gain less bulk that way, but they lift more weight. That's what A-Rod used and it's what most athletes use because it makes their drug use less noticeable. BBers want the effects to be noticeable because it's all about how they look.
@Ludichris8531 Compare ballplayers before & after drugs : Always a noticeable difference in physique. Ball players don't pump for hours, don't eat 10s of 1,000s of calories, don't take as -much- of the steroids, don't pose for pro-bodybuilder-model cameramen while virtually nude & totally dehydrated on their their best day, & aren't genetically suited to be as big & defined as bodybuilders.This has a -lot-more to do with the differences than the "different steroids" hype.
There are tremendous differences in the steroids that bodybuilder's take and those that ball players take. You must learn more because you're simply spouting off nonsense without any education on the subject. You know nothing about the central nervous system and nothing about endocrinology. Please learn about them and make a qualifying argument.
Think of your central nervous system as the battery and wiring for an electric motor (your muscles). If you have two identical motors (bodies) but one battery is very poorly charged and the other is fully charged, the one that's fully charged operates faster and more powerfully.
@Ludichris8531 Except that you -can- build a bigger battery in this case. If all occurs as you say, the user @ 225 will soon be 250 . If not, then the net sum CNS power over the course of training is equal.
"If all occurs as you say, the user @ 225 will soon be 250 ." That isn't even slightly true and you still don't seem to understand at all what we're talking about. You have a very poor grasp on this because you seem to have a linear idea of size and weight equaling strength. It's all a simple equation to you, if one guy trains to get to 225 pounds, then he'll be able to lift ____ amount of weight, and it simply doesn't work that way. BBers get heavy without getting THAT strong in most cases.
@Ludichris8531 Well, yes: If 2 otherwise identical men train identically, & consume the same calories of the same nutrients, but 1's natural &1's using: The user'll be stronger, & soon be HEAVIER. All that other stuff was never said. If a BBer has more muscle now than he had before, he's stronger now than he was before. Maybe not STRONG, but STRONGER than before. If he neglects specific exercises, he wont be able to demonstrate full strength at those lifts: Skill.
HAHAHAHA, if two men are consuming the same number of calories and the only variable that isn't controlled is their steroids, one won't be heavier than the other. They're consuming the same number of calories, one can't gain more weight than the other. In order to gain more weight, you have to eat more than the other person regardless of steroids. Now you don't even understand basic math? C'mon, this is hilarious.
@Ludichris8531 You're mistaken. Calories are used for different purposes. Sometimes all they do is throw off heat. All else being equal, the steroid user will weight more. This won't go on forever, and he'll be consuming more to feed his increasing mass, but he will weigh more even with the equal caloric input.
Oh, and all being equal, a steroid user actually won't weigh more. Steroids don't magically make your body gain weight. Weight gain depends entirely on whether or not a person consumes more calories than they expend during a day. If two identical people are on the same exact diet with the same exact calories and same exact activities but one is on steroids, the one on steroids will make greater muscular gains, but it's impossible for him to gain more weight consuming the same food.
In fact, you're so misguided about what you seem to lump into the category of "steroids" that you don't understand that in many cases the person on steroids will actually end up losing more weight than the person off of them. Why? Many steroids ramp up metabolism and prevent fat storage. Hormones don't magically create the physical material required to build tissue, they're simply anabolic signals that tell your body what to DO with the food that's taken in. Store it as fat, or build muscle.
@Ludichris8531 Muscle, fat, heat, activity. Yeah, you can protect lean mass while losing weight by taking steroids..this has no conflict with my claims.
I think you're confused. See an athlete on steroids takes other drugs during their off cycle to restore testicular function and their strength and mass gains are usually 90% maintained. I was talking about someone who truly stop using steroids, not someone who simply goes on their off cycle. Bodybuilders' strength fluctuates tremendously depending on whether they're in their bulking or cutting phases. So yes, Reg used steroids, and his strength went up and down, but that wasn't my point at all.
I didn't mention that your strength goes down when you get off steroids to prove that Reg took them. I don't have to prove that he took them because he never hid that fact. Arnold didn't either. I mentioned the fact that you strength levels go up when you go on steroids and then down when you go off them to explain that steroids have a bigger impact than simply increasing protein synthesis. Without training at all, going on steroids improves performance by enhancing the nervous system.
@Ludichris8531 Arnold admitted it. Reg did not. To me, that's an important difference. Without training at all, steroids still speed recovery from the natural, every-day breakdown of tissue, & thus -still- build mass.
@Ludichris8531 I never said that. I said Reg saying he didn't us certainly doesn't mean he used, as Arnold admitting it -does- mean -he- did. Aside from that, my comment was in response to your implication that Reg -did- admit it, which goes beyond rumor, unless you're starting your own :-)
Arnold publicly admitted steroid use, but Reg Park was never even asked that because he wasn't famous while steroids were illegal. Arnold is incredibly famous and has been interviewed many many times. Reg? Not so much. But people who trained with him back then have a different story to tell.
@Ludichris8531 I'd think with all this arguing, you'd give me some references to back your rumors up: "People"? Who? Where are the published remarks? Or did these guys whisper in your ear?
Why would i give you references? You're a completely lost cause. I gave you advice. Learn more about endocrinology, and neurology before you continue spouting off mindless nonsense. This isn't the greatest bench press of all time, it was just the second time someone had bench pressed 500 pounds...it wasn't even the first.
Now, once and for all. Can we simply agree to disagree about Reg Park's 500 pound bench press? I'm simply not interested in receiving more responses from you and cluttering up this page. You think this is the most impressive bench press of all time and that's most likely because you aren't aware of literally hundreds of more impressive performances by much stronger people. Regardless, this is your opinion. Please keep it to yourself, or share it with someone else NOT me. Leave me alone!!!
@Ludichris8531 Hmm, "once and for all", we should agree to disagree, while you insult me,call me names, and claim to have references, that I don't deserve to see? I've seen all the BPs you mention, and believe that the historical position of Reg's achievement, and the disadvantages associated with those times, makes it more important / impressive than bigger BPs afterwards. You are the one who wishes to be left alone, therefore you are the one who must leave the room.
you STILL didn't get my point at all. OF COURSE THE BUILD MASS, but I was explaining that that's not all they do. They don't simply just build mass, they give a very significant strength boost via the central nervous system. Your comprehension level is apparently incredibly low. With each passing message you send it becomes apparent you don't know much about any of this. This is just getting boring. Don't waste your time talking to me anymore because I'm done caring at this point. Bye bye.
@Ludichris8531 Those who no longer care should stop talking. I still care: IF you HAVE the strength to LIFT the weight to BUILD the muscle, then you HAVE the CNS strength, whether it's from steroids or not. Thus, there's no reason to believe a natural 225 lber will be weaker than steroided 225 lber.
Uh, you're not thinking about this very carefully. A 225 pound steroid user has androgen levels many times that of the 225 pound natural lifter. They weigh the same, but one has a far enhanced central nervous system, and thus, lifts heavier weights. How do you not understand that?
@Ludichris853Really? So the natural BBer, who's lifted all the weight took to get him from say, 170, to 225, DIDN'T lift weights as heavy as a genetically virtually identical guy who used steroids to get the same gain? That's hilariously wrong. If the steroid guy was 250, which he easily could be, I'd see your point, but ..no.
@Ludichris8531 Sure, in addition to the sped-up recovery times, the CNS is built-up to extent that's required to lift the heavy weight that builds the heavy lean mass. The guy who lifts weights heavy enough to build the mass in question -has- the CNS strength to -do- it, or he couldn't lift the weight & couldn't build the mass, whether it's from steroids or naturally. If anything, many steroid guys use -lighter- weights!
Does your brain work??? Having built up mass has NOTHING to do with your CNS. Most bodybuilders have very poorly trained Central Nervous Systems, for example.
@Ludichris8531 Wrong. If you -can- lift heavy weights, you -have- a strong CNS. Most bodybuilders use steroids, so you're arguing with yourself by saying they have a weak 'poorly trained' CNS. Do steroids 'train' the CNS?
Lol, "heavy" is a very relative term. And yes if you lift 405x8 you can have a very poorly trained CNS and only max out at 450 the way Arnold did. Steroids CHARGE the nervous system. I still don't think you have the faintest clue of what the CNS is or how it works. And no I'm not wrong.
Your central nervous system is not something that builds up the way that muscle does. The central nervous system becomes charged and it can become discharged very quickly (go beat off and see how much weight you can lift right afterward). It's an electric system, not a base of muscle. For example, two lifters are the exact same weight and strength, two hours before the next time they lift, one injects steroids. The one who injected will immediately lift more because his CNS just got a big charge
@Ludichris8531 Irrelevent. At some point, each guy lifted enough to build the same muscle, thus each was able to lift virtually the same weight, thus they're equally strong, however you prefer to explain it! CNS may not build exactly the same way as muscle but it does build.
No, CNS does not build at all. It becomes trained and detrained very quickly. If a powerlifter or strongman stops training for a few weeks, his CNS becomes detrained. It can take a month or sometimes more to retrain it. Your CNS is a reflection of how you train, not how much muscle you've built. You can stop training for weeks, lose no muscle mass, and your CNS will have become detrained and you lift less weight.
@LThere's skill aspect in any lift, no matter how simple. CNS's involved, but has nothing to do w/steroid use! Loss of strength in specific lifts occurs even while on roids -&- training, if not training the specific lift. Steroids don't build skill. As one becomes more muscular, another aspect of CNS's strengthened: Bigger battery. If this weren't true, PLers'd go back to totally untrained status during a layoff with a bunch of muscle that might as well be fat, not enough CNS to activate it.
Uh, building a bigger physique doesn't give you a bigger "battery" you don't build a bigger nervous system. You're literally just making shit up now, this is a complete waste of time.
You didn't GIVE a detailed explanation of the central nervous system. You know SO very little about it. Your explanation suggested that the central nervous system GETS BIGGER just because your muscles grow and that's not even slightly how it works.
@Ludichris8531 I gave you a detailed explanation of an important aspect of the CNS, which you've by-passed completely. You, who accused -me- of being a poor reader!
@L: Repeat: There's more than one aspect to the CNS: One is skill: your mind and body "knowing" -exactly- how to do the lift, which-muscles-when, balance, efficiency of movement & effort, timing, "greasing the groove", etc etc etc. / You can get -stronger- at -one- lift while getting -weaker- at -another-, by practicing one and not the other. DID THE CNS GET "STRONGER" OR "WEAKER"? "TRAINED" OR "DETRAINED"? "CHARGED" OR "DEPLETED"?
Lol "each guy lifted enough to build the same muscle, thus was able to lift virtually the same weight" you don't necessarily lift the same weights to build comparably sized muscles. I can bench press as much as Arnold, but his chest was MUCH bigger than mine. Size and strength are somewhat interrelated but not anywhere close to being directly correlated. Two guys who got to the same size almost never have the same strength unless they trained the same way and a BBer and PLer wouldn't do that.
@Ludichris8531 Think twins, one using, one not. Unless, of course, the point you've been trying to make all along was that we're all different, in which case,YOU'RE RIGHT!
I'm not making a point that we're all different. The point I made was that being on steroids makes it much easier to be stronger at a lower body weight for a variety of reasons most notably that a steroid user will lift heavier with enhanced nervous system function. A steroid user doesn't simply gain weight just because they're on steroids. How much weight you gain is entirely a function of how much you're eating. Bodybuilders take steroids while they're dieting and cutting.
Obviously you're impressed with this bench, and it's a great achievement, but by no means is it the most impressive bench in history, not even close. Why? Because it wasn't even performed with a pause. If he attempted to pause the weight as you're required to do in competition, he would have lost about 30-50 pounds off of what he did touch and go. Then it would be Reg Park officially benching 450-470.
And, though a 600 pound squat is good, it's not anything to brag about for a bodybuilder on steroids. I squatted 605x2 below parallel drug free 4 years ago before I got nerve damage in my lower back from squatting so deep. I was roughly 220 pounds then. Squatting 600 pounds deep is simply not THAT much weight especially for a drug user. And yes, he took steroids. They weren't illegal back then and he and his peers used them under the supervision of doctors.
@Ludichris Drug use is rumor. Not surely false, but rumor, nonetheless. Only sure US steroid use then was guys working w/York, best example: John Grimek, retired: Became more heavily-muscled than ever. They didn't need or use doctors: No 'script' was needed. People use doctors -now- for legal steroids. / There's 'below parallel', & -deep-, 2 different things. / A big part of the reason guys like you now squat 600+ is because Reg brought heavy squats to BBing, which precedes PLing.
wtf i came to see reg park and i read comments about steroids and if he took etc.should we really give a fuck if he did?I mean his dead now, so lets stop the bull.
kwstas67 2 months ago
that was not 220kg 4 plates each side x20kg=80kg each side x2 =160kg + bar =180kg not 220kg in this video the plates are looking blur
rippertrap 6 months ago
Reg was natural
damonegill88 8 months ago 5
Big Reg! Respect
LethalAssassin9 9 months ago
G.Hackenschmidt's 1898 361 lb BP wasn't beaten by more than 2 pounds for over 50 years. J.Williams had the last -truly- raw record, 675 in a loose "Fruit of the Loom" undershirt, & no belt, almost 40 years ago,1972,(he barely missed 700 that day). S.Mendelson's -technically- raw 715 in 2005 looks to stay safe for a while, as interest in SHW raw BPs has dwindled. The R.Kennelly's 1,075's safe til they make a better shirt. Assuming RK'd do 716 raw if he could, the shirt lifted 360 all by itself!
lazur1 9 months ago
great show of strength!
mrmajicka 9 months ago
Strongman Doug Hepburn, only man to bench 500 before Reg, was at least 60 lbs heavier, had a physique better suited to big benches, & dedicated more time to big lifts. Today, they'd be in different weight classes.
lazur1 1 year ago
Steroid accusations reference '49: 21yr-old Reg came to US, supposedly added 50Lbs 'overnight'. 1/ He weighed 225 in early '50s. I find it difficult to believe he was the top UK '49 BBer @ 6'1",175!. 2/ He was 21, plenty room for growth. 3/ Steroids weren't known to York BBers until '54. I find it even more difficult to believe that Joe Weider knew about them 5yrs earlier! 4/This is all Roger Walker's story, one jealous BBer who couldn't get his timeline straight. No one else.
lazur1 1 year ago 2
What people mean by 600 pounds by todays standard is the amout of nutrition and supplements that are available today that where not in the early 50's, and this bench was in the 50's when so it says only 1 other person too do it, for fucks sake use your brains.
wwwNooBcom 1 year ago
arnold said on david letterman he could bench 540 in during his peak.. I believe it too
Girn26 1 year ago
450, not 540. He never went heavier than 450. His best sets were 405x8, 315x25, and 225x60. He was much better with high rep sets and the lower the weight went, the better his sets got.
Ludichris8531 1 year ago
If you do your history research, you will learn that steroids were not used in America until 1954. Among the first few to try them were John Grimek. Park was always within 1 pound of his first contest weight whenever he competed over a 20 year span -- he was never on the juice and built all of his size and strength naturally! A 500 raw bench on a naturl, lean, proportioned body like that - one of the all-time strength feats if you ask me.
gallaman1 1 year ago
atleast that is what we have heard and been told.
I say its grea people support someone but we have to remember entertainment has lied alot to us during the years.
TheRogueMonk 1 year ago
Park was the greatest ever in bodybuilding. Without his influence the 5x5 program would have no doubt taken years to enter the landscape. The 5x5 program was the reason Park was such a monstrous guy. Even today with the roid crowd he would be considered massive.
As to the question of steroids, the first was Dianabol, invented by Dr. John Ziegler and manufactured by Ciba Pharmaceutical in 1964.
Park competed right into his 40s, his longevity in the sport was unmatched.
nuclearsharkattack 2 years ago 4
Actually not true, steroids were used by the Nazi's decades earlier. They were not invented in 1964.
Ludichris8531 1 year ago
@Ludichris8531Is this for me? I never said that.
lazur1 1 year ago
Steroids were not invented by the Nazis. Testosterone derivatives are not the same thing as AAS (androgenic anabolic steroids). The Germans during WW2 nor the Russians in the '50s had steroids as we know them today. What they did have was 2 forms of testosterone -- ie, in cypionate or aqueous suspension (oil or water). The first 'real' AAS was invented by John Ziegler while at Ciba in 1958. This was the early version of Dianabol. It was refined & given to York lifters in 1964.
nuclearsharkattack 1 year ago
Testosterone is a steroid hormone. There are many different steroids as you well know, but you're speaking of synthetic steroid hormones, many of which today are many times more anabolic and androgenic than simple test injections.
Ludichris8531 1 year ago
@Ludichris8531 really?..what are they?...i only know of a couple, anapolan and anadrol. both of which are highly toxic. the pro's still prefer test over any other AAS and the phrase "test is best" is well known in the game.
rcaddict72 1 year ago
Huh? No pro's take steroids that won't come up on drug tests. Also, there are many steroids that have lower conversion rates to DHT and estrogen as well as being far more anabolic and less androgenic so as to minimize side effects. Other than cyclists, you'll find few pro athletes that are on regular test injections. Unless you were talking about something else entirely and I don't realize it.
Ludichris8531 1 year ago
@Ludichris8531 If the pro's you are talking about are in the Olympia, they don't do drug tests. So they're free to take whatever they want.
Reaps1291 10 months ago
Weren't talking about pro bodybuilders. But they typically use steroids much more powerful than plain old test as well.
Ludichris8531 10 months ago
@nuclearsharkattack my understanding is that athletes had access to dbol prior to the 1960 olympics and shortly after that gym rats were getting it. most serious bodybuilders were eating dbol like candy by 1964.
rcaddict72 1 year ago
@nuclearsharkattack Testosterone was first synthesized in the 1930's and was introduced into the sporting arena in the 1940's and 1950's.
When the Russian weight lifting team thanks, in part, to synthetic testosterone-walked off with a pile of medals at the 1952 Olympics, an American physician determined that U. S. competitors should have the same advantage.
LVSWTZ 1 year ago
@LVSWTZ See above comments for reply.
nuclearsharkattack 1 year ago
@nuclearsharkattack my bad lol!
LVSWTZ 1 year ago
@LVSWTZ my bad lol!
LVSWTZ 1 year ago
Yes, Reg loved sun bathing. When he wasn't working out, he was typically sun bathing by the poolside... Unfortunately not too many people were aware of the danger of fair skinned people sun bathing for hours at a time during this period.
shinshoryuken 2 years ago
For sure, I do the 5X5 when I work out, and it works great.
Well, except for skull crushers. It's pretty dangerous with that much weight.
kungfujellybean 2 years ago
R.I.P Reg Park the LEGEND!
:(
LethalAssassin9 2 years ago 5
For those of you who doubt Park was natural, perhaps you should know that he won his first bodybuilding title in 1951, weighing in at 215lbs - steroids didnt enter bodybuilding until 1956.
It just goes to show what can be achieved when a great work ethic is mixed with great genes.
HITpadawan 2 years ago 4
@HITpadawan ok,but fans almost
always that,he was free of steroids
a lot of,i personally belive that
he used steroids,Paul Anderson
was free of them i know.
Pentagonshark666 2 years ago
"It just goes to show what can be achieved when a great work ethic is mixed with great genes."
most people absolutely refuse to believe that and will claim steroids no matter how hard you work.
TheREGISMarkV 2 years ago
dude anabolic steroids were available since 1935, not saying he didn't do steroids but who knows. Know for a fact soviet were abusing them hard in the mid 50's.
desembodic 2 years ago
@HITpadawan, that right, and he also benched like 445 back in those days, great inspiration to roid free lifters
wickedblackcamaro 2 years ago
Arnold said at this guys funeral or memorial ( which is on youtube ) that 500 pounds back then on a becn press is equivalent to 600 today because of all the suplements and aids today. So his bench was very impressive for that time and i think even today. Cause hes not wearing a powerlifting suit of nothing just raw power
hellokatter 2 years ago 8
@hellokatter 500 pounds is 500 pounds, there is no equivalent from then to now, it all remains the same, if arnold actually said that it is the dumbest thing he has ever said
dutchstrongman 1 year ago
@dutchstrongman arnie did in reg parks memorial on youtube, it sounds very valid considering it took people very long to do it e.g. reg park being the 2nd to do so.
hellokatter 1 year ago
@hellokatter im sorry you cant say that benching 500 then is like benching 600 today, thats totally idiotic, what is the weight of a pound different today than it was back then, no, there are just more ppl striving to do it today then there were back then that mixed with rampant steroid use and voila more 500 pound benchers
dutchstrongman 1 year ago
@dutchstrongman read my last comment ok
hellokatter 1 year ago
@hellokatter yes your last comment was absolutely stupid, your saying that just because its 20 - 30 years later bench pressing 500 pounds is easier, or that in order to have benched 500 pounds then u would have to bench 600 pounds today, im sorry, working out was not nearly as big back then as now, mor eppl are lifting and lifting competitively these days thats why we have mor e500 pound benchers today, not because of fucking supplements, those guys were all juicing back then
dutchstrongman 1 year ago
@dutchstrongman and guys arent juicing now LOL they are riddled with them. Actually people are f---ing lazy nowadays, and dnt do crap. More people lifting things back in the day not neccasarily barbells etc but you get the picture, btw supplements like supa roid guy have these day do help
hellokatter 1 year ago
@dutchstrongman you cant think this guy was on a level playing field with todays lifters surely?
TrrOtaku 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
have they ever heard of using a bench to hold the weight instead of 3 retards?
mmlfg24 2 years ago
that type off bench had not been invented then.
cypionate011 2 years ago
Comment removed
wickedblackcamaro 2 years ago
i also heard that reg park was all natural, and 5X5 have been proven to work so go for it
WIGTRON5000 2 years ago
yea u can bro, its a great mix of strength and size with the 5 times 5 program
hellokatter 2 years ago
a bodybuilder / football player / security guard recently told me that melanoma would be just as much a result of steroid abuse as would be arthritis, liver cancer, etc etc.
ronwelker8 2 years ago
Crap,he come from the north of england,(not much sun)then lived in south Africa for 40 years (too much sun)= skin cancer.
cypionate011 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
...
steroidsR4losers 2 years ago
REG PARK:::MADE IN BRITIAN
mad1966dog 2 years ago 5
This has been flagged as spam show
REG PARK:::MADE BY STEROIDS
steroidsR4losers 2 years ago
y u so mad i mean this was BEFORE ANYONE even knew steriods was bad for you - and he never took them at this time, and it was DOCTORES that FIRST subsribed them to BODYBUILDERS thinking it was safe, then they did it to the olimpic teams of usa and russia. SO SHUT UP AND DONT JUDGE EVERY gd nice guy as bad.
JASONMOORE87 2 years ago
how sad that such a strength man died recently after a battle with melanoma
ronwelker8 2 years ago
Pretty damn tough. No stupid spring-loaded bench 'shirts' in those days. One strong dude.
Maxwell2323 2 years ago 4
Very cool!
I had no idea he was the 2nd man to do that.
lilsuperman87 2 years ago
what year was this?
katselijahenkilo 2 years ago
Reg Park was the best Hercules and a great mentor from what i've heard
silentfrwy 2 years ago
Now that is what I call raw power, Reg was super strong..he also did 1,000 lb calf raises and squat 600
moorigs 2 years ago 4
@moorigs I HAVE A 1976 Muscle Mag International with an article on CALF DEVELPOMENT by REG PARK. he is pictures doing Seated calf raises with over 600 lbs. and leg press machine calf raises with over 800 lbs . His age approx . 45
bootseybuddy 1 year ago
Awesome raw power,imagine him lifting with today's equipment,especially a bench shirt
f01863 2 years ago
now thts a benchpress !
69fighters69 3 years ago 2
They had a funny way of doin it back then but at least wouldnt hit the rack awsome.
strongsick280 3 years ago
500lb then was truly awesome, in fact it's still awesome now. Huge ROM compared to todays "records"
kivojas 3 years ago 4
Not compared to 100% RAW.
Ludichris8531 2 years ago
er was a beast
punjsher 3 years ago
big reg is a beast
punjsher 3 years ago 3
LEGEND!
OtaraPiMp 3 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Cud you guys comment on my bench pressing video Cheers
jottyontheocky 3 years ago
Reg was the best, but whenever I see someone use a thumbless grip I can't help but cringe.
OhioGhost 3 years ago
The tape is a bit blurry. I can see the thumbless grip when getting set, but it looks like the thumb may be wrapped for the lift.
lazur1 3 years ago
Reg was incredibly strong...RIP Reg
qtrashlio 3 years ago 3
the video shows the beginning of benchpress, and reg park shows an "unassisted benchpress".
really a great feat. He was one of the best, like doug hepburn, john davis et al.
walterkurda 4 years ago
REG REST IN PEACE ( NOVEMBER 22ND 2007 )
iqgenesis 4 years ago 3
ditto for the super champion
ronwelker8 2 years ago
Over 53 years later, the raw record is 715, only 215 lbs more, held by a guy who weighs over 100lbs more, w/wide grip, barrel chest & short arms causing the bar's travel to be about -half- the distance Park's moving it ! This is benching the way we did it a home in the 60s to see how much we could do w/the same exercise we were using to build our bodies, not some specially altered lift to gain every possible advantage.This is still a record in my book.
lazur1 4 years ago 3
you are right, most benchers today rely on elasticized spandex rubber band shirts that rebound the weight off your chest like a spring coil.I say why depend on all that support gear because your not lifting the weight on your own.Your cheating the weight.
sammy1995 4 years ago 4
The 'best' shirts need 300lbs pressed against them just to get the bar all the way down to the lifters chest! Not so coincidentally, the record 'raw' bench and the record 'shirted' bench are often held by the same guy, Scott Mendelson, and his raw record is 300lbs less than his shirted.
lazur1 4 years ago
Did you mean he benched 715lbs? Cause if you did, that's a lot for a natural bodybuilder, actualy that's a lot for any bodybuilder.
opossimply 4 years ago
test
lazur1 4 years ago
No. World record -now-, 715, is by the 320-330 lb Scott Mendelson, who's held the record for many years. Park's best filmed BP is this one, 500. I don't know if Reg bothered to ever do more or not, but he weighed about 215 when he did this, in 1954. Between his much lower weight, the total absence of organized competiton 54 years ago & his long bodybuilder arms/relatively shallow chest, (vs short arms/barrel chests of modern powerlifters), this is still the most impressive BP of all.
lazur1 3 years ago 18
Yea thats insane way ahead of his time.
Ladscif 3 years ago 5
His arms aren't even that long. This isn't the most impressive bench press of all. Lol. This guy was on steroids even back then as were all of the big name BBers at the time because they weren't illegal to take and they got prescriptions from their doctors. If you want truly impressive benches, look at Dennis Cieri's recent 535 at a body weight of 198 pounds in competition. You must note that benching with a competition pause typically takes about 30-50 pounds off what you can do touch and go.
Ludichris8531 1 year ago
In fact, if you watch a slideshow video on youtube entitled "Reg Park The Greatest Bodybuilder" at 2:29 into the video you'll see a picture of Reg and Arnold together and Reg's arms are VERY much shorter than arnolds and they were the same height. Arnold truly had long arms. Reg, not so much and I'm not sure where you came up with that theory. Benching 500 pounds is impressive, but a high school student benched 510 at 228 pounds two years ago with a pause and he had arms about that long.
Ludichris8531 1 year ago
@L:3D-to-2D Illusion. 1/Reg's hands're raised higher than Arnold's. 2/ Men aren't at the same camera distance, nor same angle, making Arnold's head & shoulder a few inches lower than Reg's, thus his arm hangs lower. 3/ Earlier shot w/ very long-armed Steve Reeves doesn't make Reg short-armed by comparison.4/ Yes, Arnold's arms're perhaps a bit longer than the 6'1", also long-armed Reg's. 5/ Why compare a '54/500 to '08/228? , a weight Reg could likely lift the day he began training ?
lazur1 1 year ago
Learn to read. The 18 year old kid benched 510 at 228. That means a BODYWEIGHT of 228 but benched 510 pounds. And he did so with a competition, pause. This bench in this video is touch and go and he's on steroids. A paused competition 510 is the same as a touch and go 540. Also, regardless of arm position and camera angle, Arnold had much longer arms. Reg simply doesn't have long arms. That's clear in all pictures of him.
Ludichris8531 1 year ago
Oops, I meant "with a competition pause". Disregard the comma. Dennis Cieri benched 535 drug tested with a pause and he only weighed 198 pounds. He doesn't have short arms and he benches flat footed with basically no arch in his back. That is a more impressive bench than a touch and go 500 pound bench on steroids.
Ludichris8531 1 year ago
And actually yes, they're at the same distance and both squared up to the camera, there is not foreshortening effect. Arnold simply had arms that were easily about 5 inches longer per arm.
Ludichris8531 1 year ago
@Ludichris8531 I cop to poor reading , but disagree on photo. For them to be so widely varied would mean either AS 's freakishly long-armed or RP's freakishly short-armed, yet neither is the case, as can be seen in solo shots. (Check Sergio's photos for freakish arm-to-height proportion.) Compared to most PLers Reg's long-armed & flat-chested, thus a longer bar travel. Compared to most BBers or PLers Reg's tall, thus must have somewhat long arms to be as well-proportioned as he is.
lazur1 1 year ago
Arnold DID have freakishly long armed and talked about that at times. He mentioned it in his encyclopedia of bodybuilding. Reg, simply didn't have long arms though, they were not disproportionate to his height at all. He also isn't tall in comparison to the strongest raw benchers of all time. He's only 6'1". James Henderson is 6'4", Scot Mendelson is 6'1", Ryan Kennelly is 6'2". It's all about having long arms in proportion to your height, not the actual length of the arm itself.
Ludichris8531 1 year ago
L:Reg's tall: For his arms to be in proportion, they're long. Compare to SHW lifters, chest's much flatter, arms thinner, thus more extreme fold in bottom position; longer bar travel. / I allow for Arnold's arms to be longer, but NOT 5" each! Perhaps his span's 5" greater: both arms & hands w/fingers extended plus shoulder width, & still not as wide as Sergio's span. BBers dont measure span/reach, but I'd bet 6'1" Sonny Liston's 84" span,(what -I'd- refer to as freakish),is meaningfully wider.
lazur1 1 year ago
@lazur1 *56-plus* years later, w/all the associated advantages: Superior supplements, training methods, coaching, equipment, lifting techniques,100 more pounds bodyweight on physiques best suited for BPing (as opposed to BBing), & a -culture- of dedicated SWH BP competition attracting a talent-pool that was non-existent in 1954..adds up to another 213Lbs on the raw BP. This makes Reg look good.
lazur1 1 year ago
As someone who's closing in on a 500 pound raw bench press without ever having used drugs, I can tell you that it's simply not THAT impressive of a feat regardless of the time it was accomplished especially because he was on steroids. The exercises really haven't changed that'll get you there at all. His arms simply weren't long in proportion to the rest of his body and his body wasn't particularly huge, he was only 6'1", not a giant. He also performed this touch and go, not paused.
Ludichris8531 1 year ago
@Ludichris8531 There are high school kids "closing in" on Olympic records of 56 years ago, too. I don't believe this changes the historical importance of these achievements. His arms were -in- proportion to his body, thus long. The fact that he was not a giant is supposed to be -my- point ; - )
lazur1 1 year ago
If they're in proportion to his body, they're not long since he wasn't particularly tall. Get over his arm length, he didn't have long arms.
Ludichris8531 1 year ago
@Ludichris8531 6'1" -is- tall, for a 220 Lb bench presser, thus his arms, (being in proportion to his height), -were- long, for the -lift-, -not- for his -height-.
lazur1 1 year ago
His arms aren't long. Being taller doesn't make the lift harder at all. Having long arms in proportion to your height is what makes the lift more difficult mechanically speaking. And the reason he was as light as he was is that his legs were so woefully underdeveloped compared to most in the powerlifting world.
Ludichris8531 1 year ago
@Ludichris8531 Distance the bar travels is a major factor. A flatter chest does matter. Proportion of arm length to height means nothing. Proportion of arm length to arm thickness means a lot. Proportion of arm length to chest & shoulder width means a lot. Proportion of arm length to chest thickness means a lot. There are many big bench press specialists who do very little for their legs.
lazur1 1 year ago
There aren't many big bench specialist that do very little for their legs. Dennis Cieri is one of the very few who trains his legs minimally, but the "big" bench specialists squat religiously because you don't maximize your bench unless you squat heavy. Ryan Kennelly, Scot Mendelson, Jeremy Hoornstra etc. all squat very heavy. Oh, and back to your little rant about arm length. It's moot, why? because Reg Park didn't have anything that would qualify as long arms.
Ludichris8531 1 year ago
@Ludichris Reg also trained his legs religiously. Sorry you don't like them. One look at the upper bodies of any of the guys you mentioned proves their weight difference has very little to do with their legs :-) No matter what reasons you accept or don't: The distance the bar travels for Reg's BP is noticeably greater than the big bps of today. How much you lift & how far you lift it .
lazur1 1 year ago
The guy's I just mentioned have all performed squats in excess of 800 pounds. And it IS about how much and how far you lift it, and it's also about whether or not you pause. So, if you take into account how much he lifted, 500 pounds, how far he lifted it, not terribly far because he doesn't have long arms, and the fact that he didn't pause at the bottom, Reg Park's lift is simply not very impressive. It's not that much weight, it wasn't paused, and he doesn't have long arms.
Ludichris8531 1 year ago
@Ludichris8531 All one has to do is look to see Reg moves the bar farther than modern BPers do. Those guys you mention also weigh 100 plus Lbs more than Reg, who, at 225, could squat 600 Lbs, which back then more closely resembled a deep Olympic squat rather than a typical powerlifter's parallel squat. (Another very meaningful achievement, by the way : - )
lazur1 1 year ago
No, I'm comparing it to Michael McDonald, and Dennis Cieri. Michael McDonald was under 220 pounds when he hit 582 pounds with a pause in competition 31 years ago. Dennis Cieri paused 535 with a body weight of 197 pounds completely drug tested under the very strictest conditions (IPF fed rules). Those are both far more impressive bench presses by guy's with much smaller chests than Reg Park.
Ludichris8531 1 year ago
@Ludichris8531If you're more impressed, you're more impressed. I think you're can see what -I'm- more impressed by : - ) I'm not as sure as you that Reg took steroids, but: The main effect is protein synthesis..increased lean mass.thus a 225 lb lean man is a 225 lb lean man, no matter how achieve this state. He'll have greater strength potential compared to himself at a lesser weight, but a steroid-acheived gain has no strength advantage over that same lean 225 lb gained naturally.
lazur1 1 year ago
Uh, first, that's not true. Steroids don't simply increase protein synthesis, they enhance the function of the central nervous system and allow you to operate at a much higher level power and speed before you even gain muscle mass. That's why your strength takes a massive dive when you go off of them. You're more impressed by a guy who did something a long time ago on drugs because you don't seem to see that he doesn't have long arms, didn't lift that much weight, at didn't pause the weight.
Ludichris8531 1 year ago
@Ludichris8531 I'd be impressed with the 470. Reg never did take a big dive in strength, until the very end , of course. He looked like a -strong- 50 year old when he turned 70. The more you insist Reg was on drugs, the more i realize you believe things you don't actually know, yet ypu -don't- believe things you can see.
lazur1 1 year ago
How on earth would you know what Reg's strength levels were at any given part of the year? Now YOU'RE just making shit up. And yes, Reg Park was on steroids. Please do further research and you fill discover this. During Reg's career steroids were VERY prevalent and just about all elite bodybuilders took them because...dum dum DUUUUUUM...they weren't illegal or tested for in BBing competitions.
Ludichris8531 1 year ago
@Ludichris8531 They weren't illegal, they weren't tested for, all
else is a big assumption. You don't seem to think that Reg having been a young-looking, very muscular 70 year-old had any bearing on this. I do. I think this indicates a good likelihood that he could keep his mass via natural means. I'll assume you figure he just kept taking steroids : - )
lazur1 1 year ago
uh, no, you're not really making a qualifying point here. Reg may have been in good shape for a guy who was 70, but that doesn't mean he didn't take steroids when he was younger. Arnold took steroids in the 1960's, 1970's and even into the early 80s. Arnold is 62 right now and easily gets into very muscular shape when it's time to make a movie that requires it. Oh and Sylvester Stallone? Yeah he's 64 and he's still on steroids and was caught smuggling hGH on a plane.
Ludichris8531 1 year ago
@Ludichris8531 Arnold began making his last actually-seen movie when he was 53, & is nowhere near as muscular as in his youth anytime after 'Conan'. Reg was huge at 70.
lazur1 1 year ago
Ugh, ok, Arnold was GIANT in 2003 when Terminator 3 came out. FAR bigger than Reg Park was WHEN HE COMPETED. Learn more about bodybuilding, learn more about powerlifting, get off Reg Park's nuts, he wasn't that strong, and research him more because Reg was actually known at the time as one of the pioneers of steroids in bbing. People who believe otherwise simply don't know enough about him. Oh and he competed WELL into 1960s and everyone was on steroids. Please leave me alone now.
Ludichris8531 1 year ago
@Ludichris8531 Mid-50s Arnold's nowhere near full size in that film. Reg may be "known" as whatever you wish, to guys like you, talking among yourselves: Every time you hear what you already believe it seems like evidence, but it's just another gossip, who probably read it on a post of yours! Steroids speed up progress, but that same progress can be made naturally over longer periods. Reg trained those longer periods.
lazur1 1 year ago
@Ludichris8531 Funny, your mass also takes a massive dive : - )
lazur1 1 year ago
My mass takes a massive dive?
Ludichris8531 1 year ago
@Ludichris8531 Sorry, I didn't mean to 'out' your drug use :-)
lazur1 1 year ago
Out my drug use? I've never used drugs and you're a little boy, you don't understand any of this.
Ludichris8531 1 year ago
@Ludichris8531 Hey, you're the one who made it sound that way. Check the thread.
lazur1 1 year ago
There's also another factor to this. Steroids are not all the same. Steroids that bbers use promote cell volumization whereas those taken by professional athletes and powerlifters minimize size gains but maximize strength. That gain less bulk that way, but they lift more weight. That's what A-Rod used and it's what most athletes use because it makes their drug use less noticeable. BBers want the effects to be noticeable because it's all about how they look.
Ludichris8531 1 year ago
@Ludichris8531 Compare ballplayers before & after drugs : Always a noticeable difference in physique. Ball players don't pump for hours, don't eat 10s of 1,000s of calories, don't take as -much- of the steroids, don't pose for pro-bodybuilder-model cameramen while virtually nude & totally dehydrated on their their best day, & aren't genetically suited to be as big & defined as bodybuilders.This has a -lot-more to do with the differences than the "different steroids" hype.
lazur1 1 year ago
There are tremendous differences in the steroids that bodybuilder's take and those that ball players take. You must learn more because you're simply spouting off nonsense without any education on the subject. You know nothing about the central nervous system and nothing about endocrinology. Please learn about them and make a qualifying argument.
Ludichris8531 1 year ago
@Ludichris8531 I'm telling you what I've learned, and you are disagreeing :-)
lazur1 1 year ago
@Ludichris8531 Thanks for the "little boy" remark..I do look young for my age : - )
lazur1 1 year ago
Uh, no I was referring to your ability to comprehend, it resembles that of a little boy.
Ludichris8531 1 year ago
@Ludichris8531 Awww :-( And I didn't even get -that-! Now I'm sad. You're mean.
lazur1 1 year ago
Think of your central nervous system as the battery and wiring for an electric motor (your muscles). If you have two identical motors (bodies) but one battery is very poorly charged and the other is fully charged, the one that's fully charged operates faster and more powerfully.
Ludichris8531 1 year ago
@Ludichris8531 Except that you -can- build a bigger battery in this case. If all occurs as you say, the user @ 225 will soon be 250 . If not, then the net sum CNS power over the course of training is equal.
lazur1 1 year ago
"If all occurs as you say, the user @ 225 will soon be 250 ." That isn't even slightly true and you still don't seem to understand at all what we're talking about. You have a very poor grasp on this because you seem to have a linear idea of size and weight equaling strength. It's all a simple equation to you, if one guy trains to get to 225 pounds, then he'll be able to lift ____ amount of weight, and it simply doesn't work that way. BBers get heavy without getting THAT strong in most cases.
Ludichris8531 1 year ago
@Ludichris8531 Well, yes: If 2 otherwise identical men train identically, & consume the same calories of the same nutrients, but 1's natural &1's using: The user'll be stronger, & soon be HEAVIER. All that other stuff was never said. If a BBer has more muscle now than he had before, he's stronger now than he was before. Maybe not STRONG, but STRONGER than before. If he neglects specific exercises, he wont be able to demonstrate full strength at those lifts: Skill.
lazur1 1 year ago
HAHAHAHA, if two men are consuming the same number of calories and the only variable that isn't controlled is their steroids, one won't be heavier than the other. They're consuming the same number of calories, one can't gain more weight than the other. In order to gain more weight, you have to eat more than the other person regardless of steroids. Now you don't even understand basic math? C'mon, this is hilarious.
Ludichris8531 1 year ago
@Ludichris8531 You're mistaken. Calories are used for different purposes. Sometimes all they do is throw off heat. All else being equal, the steroid user will weight more. This won't go on forever, and he'll be consuming more to feed his increasing mass, but he will weigh more even with the equal caloric input.
lazur1 1 year ago
Oh, and all being equal, a steroid user actually won't weigh more. Steroids don't magically make your body gain weight. Weight gain depends entirely on whether or not a person consumes more calories than they expend during a day. If two identical people are on the same exact diet with the same exact calories and same exact activities but one is on steroids, the one on steroids will make greater muscular gains, but it's impossible for him to gain more weight consuming the same food.
Ludichris8531 1 year ago
In fact, you're so misguided about what you seem to lump into the category of "steroids" that you don't understand that in many cases the person on steroids will actually end up losing more weight than the person off of them. Why? Many steroids ramp up metabolism and prevent fat storage. Hormones don't magically create the physical material required to build tissue, they're simply anabolic signals that tell your body what to DO with the food that's taken in. Store it as fat, or build muscle.
Ludichris8531 1 year ago
@Ludichris8531 Muscle, fat, heat, activity. Yeah, you can protect lean mass while losing weight by taking steroids..this has no conflict with my claims.
lazur1 1 year ago
I think you're confused. See an athlete on steroids takes other drugs during their off cycle to restore testicular function and their strength and mass gains are usually 90% maintained. I was talking about someone who truly stop using steroids, not someone who simply goes on their off cycle. Bodybuilders' strength fluctuates tremendously depending on whether they're in their bulking or cutting phases. So yes, Reg used steroids, and his strength went up and down, but that wasn't my point at all.
Ludichris8531 1 year ago
I didn't mention that your strength goes down when you get off steroids to prove that Reg took them. I don't have to prove that he took them because he never hid that fact. Arnold didn't either. I mentioned the fact that you strength levels go up when you go on steroids and then down when you go off them to explain that steroids have a bigger impact than simply increasing protein synthesis. Without training at all, going on steroids improves performance by enhancing the nervous system.
Ludichris8531 1 year ago
@Ludichris8531 Arnold admitted it. Reg did not. To me, that's an important difference. Without training at all, steroids still speed recovery from the natural, every-day breakdown of tissue, & thus -still- build mass.
lazur1 1 year ago
Of course they did not. And you think not admitting steroid use means you didn't take them LOL!!!! wow, how old are you?
Ludichris8531 1 year ago
@Ludichris8531 I never said that. I said Reg saying he didn't us certainly doesn't mean he used, as Arnold admitting it -does- mean -he- did. Aside from that, my comment was in response to your implication that Reg -did- admit it, which goes beyond rumor, unless you're starting your own :-)
lazur1 1 year ago
@Ludichris8531 Of course "they" did not? Repeat, Arnold -did- admit steroids use.
lazur1 1 year ago
Arnold publicly admitted steroid use, but Reg Park was never even asked that because he wasn't famous while steroids were illegal. Arnold is incredibly famous and has been interviewed many many times. Reg? Not so much. But people who trained with him back then have a different story to tell.
Ludichris8531 1 year ago
@Ludichris8531 I'd think with all this arguing, you'd give me some references to back your rumors up: "People"? Who? Where are the published remarks? Or did these guys whisper in your ear?
lazur1 1 year ago
Why would i give you references? You're a completely lost cause. I gave you advice. Learn more about endocrinology, and neurology before you continue spouting off mindless nonsense. This isn't the greatest bench press of all time, it was just the second time someone had bench pressed 500 pounds...it wasn't even the first.
Ludichris8531 1 year ago
@Ludichris8531 I know why you -won't- give me references, because there are none :-)
lazur1 1 year ago
Now, once and for all. Can we simply agree to disagree about Reg Park's 500 pound bench press? I'm simply not interested in receiving more responses from you and cluttering up this page. You think this is the most impressive bench press of all time and that's most likely because you aren't aware of literally hundreds of more impressive performances by much stronger people. Regardless, this is your opinion. Please keep it to yourself, or share it with someone else NOT me. Leave me alone!!!
Ludichris8531 1 year ago
@Ludichris8531 Hmm, "once and for all", we should agree to disagree, while you insult me,call me names, and claim to have references, that I don't deserve to see? I've seen all the BPs you mention, and believe that the historical position of Reg's achievement, and the disadvantages associated with those times, makes it more important / impressive than bigger BPs afterwards. You are the one who wishes to be left alone, therefore you are the one who must leave the room.
lazur1 1 year ago
GLADLY BYE BYE!!!
Ludichris8531 1 year ago
you STILL didn't get my point at all. OF COURSE THE BUILD MASS, but I was explaining that that's not all they do. They don't simply just build mass, they give a very significant strength boost via the central nervous system. Your comprehension level is apparently incredibly low. With each passing message you send it becomes apparent you don't know much about any of this. This is just getting boring. Don't waste your time talking to me anymore because I'm done caring at this point. Bye bye.
Ludichris8531 1 year ago
@Ludichris8531 Those who no longer care should stop talking. I still care: IF you HAVE the strength to LIFT the weight to BUILD the muscle, then you HAVE the CNS strength, whether it's from steroids or not. Thus, there's no reason to believe a natural 225 lber will be weaker than steroided 225 lber.
lazur1 1 year ago
Uh, you're not thinking about this very carefully. A 225 pound steroid user has androgen levels many times that of the 225 pound natural lifter. They weigh the same, but one has a far enhanced central nervous system, and thus, lifts heavier weights. How do you not understand that?
Ludichris8531 1 year ago
@Ludichris853Really? So the natural BBer, who's lifted all the weight took to get him from say, 170, to 225, DIDN'T lift weights as heavy as a genetically virtually identical guy who used steroids to get the same gain? That's hilariously wrong. If the steroid guy was 250, which he easily could be, I'd see your point, but ..no.
lazur1 1 year ago
@Ludichris8531 Sure, in addition to the sped-up recovery times, the CNS is built-up to extent that's required to lift the heavy weight that builds the heavy lean mass. The guy who lifts weights heavy enough to build the mass in question -has- the CNS strength to -do- it, or he couldn't lift the weight & couldn't build the mass, whether it's from steroids or naturally. If anything, many steroid guys use -lighter- weights!
lazur1 1 year ago
Does your brain work??? Having built up mass has NOTHING to do with your CNS. Most bodybuilders have very poorly trained Central Nervous Systems, for example.
Ludichris8531 1 year ago
@Ludichris8531 Wrong. If you -can- lift heavy weights, you -have- a strong CNS. Most bodybuilders use steroids, so you're arguing with yourself by saying they have a weak 'poorly trained' CNS. Do steroids 'train' the CNS?
lazur1 1 year ago
Lol, "heavy" is a very relative term. And yes if you lift 405x8 you can have a very poorly trained CNS and only max out at 450 the way Arnold did. Steroids CHARGE the nervous system. I still don't think you have the faintest clue of what the CNS is or how it works. And no I'm not wrong.
Ludichris8531 1 year ago
@Ludichris8531 "..no, I'm not wrong." I kind'a figured you felt that way. Very enlightening ;-)
lazur1 1 year ago
Your central nervous system is not something that builds up the way that muscle does. The central nervous system becomes charged and it can become discharged very quickly (go beat off and see how much weight you can lift right afterward). It's an electric system, not a base of muscle. For example, two lifters are the exact same weight and strength, two hours before the next time they lift, one injects steroids. The one who injected will immediately lift more because his CNS just got a big charge
Ludichris8531 1 year ago
@Ludichris8531 Irrelevent. At some point, each guy lifted enough to build the same muscle, thus each was able to lift virtually the same weight, thus they're equally strong, however you prefer to explain it! CNS may not build exactly the same way as muscle but it does build.
lazur1 1 year ago
No, CNS does not build at all. It becomes trained and detrained very quickly. If a powerlifter or strongman stops training for a few weeks, his CNS becomes detrained. It can take a month or sometimes more to retrain it. Your CNS is a reflection of how you train, not how much muscle you've built. You can stop training for weeks, lose no muscle mass, and your CNS will have become detrained and you lift less weight.
Ludichris8531 1 year ago
@LThere's skill aspect in any lift, no matter how simple. CNS's involved, but has nothing to do w/steroid use! Loss of strength in specific lifts occurs even while on roids -&- training, if not training the specific lift. Steroids don't build skill. As one becomes more muscular, another aspect of CNS's strengthened: Bigger battery. If this weren't true, PLers'd go back to totally untrained status during a layoff with a bunch of muscle that might as well be fat, not enough CNS to activate it.
lazur1 1 year ago
Uh, building a bigger physique doesn't give you a bigger "battery" you don't build a bigger nervous system. You're literally just making shit up now, this is a complete waste of time.
Ludichris8531 1 year ago
@Ludichris8531 That's a poor response to the detailed explanations of aspects of the CNS I've given you.
lazur1 1 year ago
You didn't GIVE a detailed explanation of the central nervous system. You know SO very little about it. Your explanation suggested that the central nervous system GETS BIGGER just because your muscles grow and that's not even slightly how it works.
Ludichris8531 1 year ago
@Ludichris8531 I gave you a detailed explanation of an important aspect of the CNS, which you've by-passed completely. You, who accused -me- of being a poor reader!
lazur1 1 year ago
@L: Repeat: There's more than one aspect to the CNS: One is skill: your mind and body "knowing" -exactly- how to do the lift, which-muscles-when, balance, efficiency of movement & effort, timing, "greasing the groove", etc etc etc. / You can get -stronger- at -one- lift while getting -weaker- at -another-, by practicing one and not the other. DID THE CNS GET "STRONGER" OR "WEAKER"? "TRAINED" OR "DETRAINED"? "CHARGED" OR "DEPLETED"?
lazur1 1 year ago
Lol "each guy lifted enough to build the same muscle, thus was able to lift virtually the same weight" you don't necessarily lift the same weights to build comparably sized muscles. I can bench press as much as Arnold, but his chest was MUCH bigger than mine. Size and strength are somewhat interrelated but not anywhere close to being directly correlated. Two guys who got to the same size almost never have the same strength unless they trained the same way and a BBer and PLer wouldn't do that.
Ludichris8531 1 year ago
@Ludichris8531 Think twins, one using, one not. Unless, of course, the point you've been trying to make all along was that we're all different, in which case,YOU'RE RIGHT!
lazur1 1 year ago
I'm not making a point that we're all different. The point I made was that being on steroids makes it much easier to be stronger at a lower body weight for a variety of reasons most notably that a steroid user will lift heavier with enhanced nervous system function. A steroid user doesn't simply gain weight just because they're on steroids. How much weight you gain is entirely a function of how much you're eating. Bodybuilders take steroids while they're dieting and cutting.
Ludichris8531 1 year ago
Oops, I meant, "of course THEY build mass." Ok, now bye bye.
Ludichris8531 1 year ago
Obviously you're impressed with this bench, and it's a great achievement, but by no means is it the most impressive bench in history, not even close. Why? Because it wasn't even performed with a pause. If he attempted to pause the weight as you're required to do in competition, he would have lost about 30-50 pounds off of what he did touch and go. Then it would be Reg Park officially benching 450-470.
Ludichris8531 1 year ago
And, though a 600 pound squat is good, it's not anything to brag about for a bodybuilder on steroids. I squatted 605x2 below parallel drug free 4 years ago before I got nerve damage in my lower back from squatting so deep. I was roughly 220 pounds then. Squatting 600 pounds deep is simply not THAT much weight especially for a drug user. And yes, he took steroids. They weren't illegal back then and he and his peers used them under the supervision of doctors.
Ludichris8531 1 year ago
@Ludichris Drug use is rumor. Not surely false, but rumor, nonetheless. Only sure US steroid use then was guys working w/York, best example: John Grimek, retired: Became more heavily-muscled than ever. They didn't need or use doctors: No 'script' was needed. People use doctors -now- for legal steroids. / There's 'below parallel', & -deep-, 2 different things. / A big part of the reason guys like you now squat 600+ is because Reg brought heavy squats to BBing, which precedes PLing.
lazur1 1 year ag