Debate Chris Hedges vs Sam Harris Religion, Politics FULL

[garfrain]

i'm completely behind sam re: the 1:16:30 argument. i'm fed up with his anecdotes, if people are offended that he belittles his hedges' 15 years out there then grow a pair. harris is concerned about the truth, and if that offends a man whose argument depends 70% on anecdotal evidence then so bloody be it

[garfrain]

i wish hedges would shut up with his anecdotes. anecdotes are next to useless as they tend to generalise from a small range of experience

[garfrain]

1:05:15 lol

[gary031183]

I am going to move on to another debate... this moderator is killing me!!! As always though, Sam Harris is the best!

[ramatirthadasa]

Like how he brings up Hindu fundamentalists,instead of answering the charges against Islamic fundamentalists,liberal pansy!

[ramatirthadasa]

49:00 No Muslim has YET dropped a nuclear bomb

[ramatirthadasa]

43:06 must have been thinking of Hitchens

[docerex]

Chris Hedges does a great job here. I find 3 out of the 4 horsemen rather strident about being anti-religios. As a scientific endeavour, the existence of God is "undecideable" to scientific inquiry to quote Michio Kaku. Additionally, to say that our current conflicts are primarily religious dangerously glosses over important (possibly more important issues) ethnicity, economics and territory.

[Intellisecular]

@docerex. Equivocation. You know the concept of God that is rejected is a monotheistic in nature. An entity that defies reality. An entity that is beyond space and time isn't "undecideable" to scientific inquiry because science deals with reality, not fantasy.

[docerex]

@Intellisecular the general concept of God has many forms including that which theoretical physicists such as Michio Kaku espouse. Interestingly enough, science's biggest sibling, mathematics, has enormous history with ground breaking development outside of the empirical lens of science. In mathematics there are enormous debates about whether it's nature is Platonic vs empiric.

[docerex]

@Intellisecular ... to extend the the mathematics point, the development of complex numbers had absolutely no inspiration from the observational/empiric/scientif­ic world. Later on, complex numbers played decisive roles in the development of Quantum theory. There is always room for the abstract to become vindicated. In Michio Kaku's point of view, unless you have an experiment to disprove or prove the existence of God (whatever that is), the question is undecideable.

[gretschjazzer]

Faith-based religion keeps Sam awake at night? He needs a life.

To that end, Harris seems obsessed to the point of mania, with jihadists getting hold of nuclear weapons, which includes - ostensibly - Iran. On and on he drones about this, just like the late Hitchens. I don't know about my fellow Americans, but I am MUCH more worried about the possibility of a Christian fundamentalist being elected to the American presidency, with immediate access to nuclear weapons. Like Rick Santorum.

[ramatirthadasa]

@gretschjazzer Dr.Harris is trying to keep people like Santorum from obtaining any postion of higher power than he already has

[tobo86]

Good on you Sam. Taking on two people in a debate is completely unfair, but you still nailed it

[ramatirthadasa]

@tobo86 He wouldnt be a horseman if he couldnt take on two or more challengers

[tobo86]

@ramatirthadasa tis true - charging through, lopping off heads left and right (respectively)

[Dscheller89]

Shut up moderator!

[ramatirthadasa]

@Dscheller89 He has to take the white liberal propaganda out of his ears before he can hear you

[Hankatu]

Moderators moderate. So fucking moderate. You are not there to make arguments and argue or express your opinion. You're there to restrict/allow/direct, not cock around. Jesus.

[TheShaitanjr]

4:01 is when the debate starts. you're welcome

[crallen33]

The last thirty minutes is constituted by Harris defending himself from naive and unjustified accusations of racism, and defending his reliably obtained statistics from Hedges' selectively subjective impressions of Islamic belief patterns; followed by Hedges and the moderator inadvertently arguing that all religions are equally bad.

The best summary of the debate begins at 1:23:16.

[moety2]

@crallen33 I have been following Hedges work and me being an atheist and while his christian jesus talk is nonsense, he does bring up a lot of good points. I have heard Hitchens bring up his personal subjective experiences plenty of times ways it was readily accepted. Things are not as black and white as would like them to be so we can make easier decisions like bombing a culture to the stone age. The moderator was getting on my nerves also. Shut up and let them talk

[crallen33]

For the first hour of the debate, Sam Harris provides his standard voice of reasoning and justified skepticism; whilst Hedges horns on with unsupported generalisations of Christianity (doing nothing but supporting belief in its uselessness)...

[DrHowbeit]

This is a lot more meaningful to listen to than a God-debate with a theist. I can find myself agree with both sides.

[ExigentZero]

I love how Chris Hedges it speaking as a preacher the whole time. And everything he says can be easily brushed aside as he speaks like a blind man who has not seen that the world as it is... is just that.

[theH0UNDSofD00M]

@ExigentZero Chris Hedges was the Middle East correspondent for the New York Times, and was also in Serbia during the war, therefore it's fair to assume that he has seen more of the world than the average person which in my eyes, I'm afraid, includes you.

[ExigentZero]

@theH0UNDSofD00M One doesn't need to travel the world to know that Hedges is a blow hard Christian spewing religious propaganda. This is what I was referring to... that this is the one and only shot at life we have... there is nothing after death. Why waste it adhering to a deity that either doesn't care or is a cruel one. So yes, good for Hedges in his efforts, I applaud him, but nevertheless his beliefs are not sound and biases every aspect of his work.

[moety2]

@ExigentZero Have you heard some of the things he says? Most of chirstains don't like him or even consider him a christian. Don't get me wrong, in the religious context it's still nonsense to me but I prefer his perspective which is closer to reality then most of them. If he never said anything about religion I would think he was an atheist. I found myself agreeing with a lot of what he says in his talks and interviews that isn't religion based obviously lol

[arealbladeofgrass]

Is America secular ? Is it possible for an atheist to be president or hold some sort of govt. office without being persecuted ? I do not think so. America is a theocracy run by Corporate Atheist oligarchs.

[gat0rgirl13]

42:36 how is iraq secular?

[gat0rgirl13]

i thought sam harris was debating chris hedges, not the moderator. wtf?

[WilhelmDrake]

@1:21:22

The US was indeed heavily involved in the Iran/ Iraq war. A cursory examination of history would confirm this.

[WilhelmDrake]

@1:20:00

Suicide bombing, as reprehensible as it is, is undoubtedly a profoundly rational act despite what Mr. Harris states.

[WilhelmDrake]

Once Mr. Harris resorted to "reductio ad hitlerum" he immediately forfeited the debate.

[WilhelmDrake]

Every religious group based on the bible reads it selectively. The bible doesn't even seem to be amenable to single theology. In addition, a religious text is not the totality of any religion, many religions have no holy text.

[WilhelmDrake]

It blows my mind how ignorant of religion Sam Harris actually is.

[justjulie37]

I love listening to Sam. He is definitely my favorite secular writer. If only more people would actually listen to his words and see how much sense he makes.

[doctorphantasm]

1:10:25 Did he just say "irregardless"? Harris wins.

[SilverK333]

Sam always cracks me up. He has a great sense of humor. If you don't you laughter in these discussions of inflammatory topics, it will make/you mad in the head due to frustration. Seriously " love for crackers in the (transubstantiation) part was priceless

[bgates87]

This video should be titled "Sam Harris vs. Chris Hedges and bias moderator"

[TheLockon00]

There should have been more sniggering when Chris said "irregardless".

[TheLockon00]

"There's a general love of crackers." Worth watching the whole video for that line alone. lol.

[zeldaofarel]

Chris Hedges in the beginning said two things that caught me as weird.

1. Since when has Christianity been in favour of individualism? Really?

2. He basically says that the important part is not our smarts, but feelings. How American.

[Preskinn]

@zeldaofarel you don't even know what you are talking about.

[zeldaofarel]

@Preskinn How arrogant.

[Preskinn]

@zeldaofarel Not really. I found it arrogant that you'd just of the bat dismiss christianitys influence so far as individualism goes, thats all. That and you saying "how american" about one of the most prominent intellectuals of our time as he correctly argues that in our time of amazing advancements and power there is no lack of "smarts" but of integrity, values and feelings...

look I mean no offence, but I don't agree with you.

[xeyon]

when did this take place? love sam's intro!

[REALITY2point0]

Robert Scheer, worst moderator.. ever.

[sapunec7854]

1:11:56 Lying piece of shit. Probably the reaction videos you can find are some sort of illusion eh? Dumb, fucking, pathetic moron, trying to make Harris look like some sort of fascist warlord

[arealbladeofgrass]

@sapunec7854 Which reaction videos are you referring too ?

[sapunec7854]

@arealbladeofgrass Of people in "very" Islamic countries celebrating in the streets on 9 11

[arealbladeofgrass]

@sapunec7854 Can you send me the link because I can only find the one film and this has since been proved a fake. I will send you the fake and another dance video from another source.

[sapunec7854]

@arealbladeofgrass Fakes? Interesting, I never knew that (sounds quite unexpected since I saw it on the news). I was referring to the stuff that turns up if you type "911 celebration" in youtube, not a specific footage.

Thanks for letting me know of the fake stuff, it'll help me not making a fool of myself

[KnightXXI]

Someone please slap that moderator.

[ramatirthadasa]

@KnightXXI Its bad karma to slap someone who is mentally handicapped

[DaylightDigital]

One of the best opening statements against religion I have ever heard. One of Sam's best!

[AscendingParadigm]

@DaylightDigital Yes, Sam delivers better than FedEx!

[risingsonseven]

@DaylightDigital . Chris's opening was strong too. He isnt a bible thumper. I think he knows that even myth offers great lessons. And this is important. We dont have to really believe the damn fable. We miss the point if we stark looking for hobbits and elves, or god or whatever. Theres underlining principle in religious stories.

[DaylightDigital]

@risingsonseven To say that taking scripture literally is "to degrade its eternal meaning" to quote Robert T. Bakker is truly problematic in my view. This is supposed to be revealed truth, but it is at odds with damn near everything we know about the world and about the plethora of other such scriptures on offer. The only reason that we should believe that something is true is because it is evidently true, period. Any utilitarian argument for holding a belief is vacuous ultimately...

[risingsonseven]

@DaylightDigital Well, theres a superficial understanding of legends, myths , fables, etc. The Tortoise And The Hare for example, if we take away only that turtles will beat rabbits eventually in a race, we kinda miss the point.

The only evidence i would have in "God" would be my own personal experience and perhaps accounts of scriptures i trust, but it all must be tempered with science, reason, etc. Further still, that knowledge of God isnt to be imposed on others. Beliefs are PERSONAL

[risingsonseven]

Lastly, even within the personal confines of ones own mind, we have a choice to make to continue some type of scrutiny and testing and research, we have a choice to be open to correction of whats consider the gospel truth, to always keep and open mind to considerations and sound argument/points made.OR, we can hold militantly to beliefs and create impenetrable fortress of delusion and dogmatism.

[gtrman2002]

@OwensTV- perhaps he's yelling because he lost the debate before it even began. Rehashed talking points will only get you so far. Sam is an intellectual, whereas Chris is a pseudo at best. Admittedly, I am a huge Harris fan, so my bias is evident.

[ghm011301]

@gtrman2002 Chris Hedges did exactly what most reasonably intelligent believers do: resort to some self-serving form of unitarianism. They do this because they cannot bring themselves to believe anything religion has to say about the world, yet they do not want to give up the idea that there is a god.

[WilhelmDrake]

@ghm011301

How do you explain Christian non-theism then?

[OwensTV]

Why does Chris have to yell the whole time?

[ramatirthadasa]

@OwensTV Chris just hot horsekicked by Harris (Harris being one of the four horsemen)

[Laparanoicafierita]

sam Harris es el puto amo