Big Ideas That Changed The World : Democracy-Tony Benn

[dreamcastII]

how do Tony Benn and Chomsky compare?

[stephenblackman2003a]

google "david beetham democracy UK" and read an easy-to-understand, evidence-based paper on how rich corporations have hijacked democracy in Britain.

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[spookmore]

This man is so genuine,love him.spoomore

[longfootbuddy]

what a great idea...a majority forcing its will on individuals...keep it up, tyrants

[TMNEnglish]

@longfootbuddy lol

[TheSaltyAdmiral]

@longfootbuddy

Yes, democracy is so bad, buhu! Do me a favor and live a year in a country without it.

If you knew history you would know that the majority has NEVER oppressed the minority, it has always been the other way around. Even in nazi germany it was like that, contrary to popular belive.

The majority of humans are good empathic creatures, that is why its always safe to give them power.

[longfootbuddy]

@TheSaltyAdmiral whatever you say, dreamer

[longfootbuddy]

@TheSaltyAdmiral since you like democracy so much, why dont you let others dictate how youll live...leave us adults alone...besides, your stupid democracy isnt even real.. youre ruled by corporations, but youre too stupid to realize it

[polygamous1]

this Is a man in a Milion one of the greatest wisest caring n most Honest statesmen of all time more like one of the original creators of demogracy a great waste to the nation n to the world because of the way labour leaders are chosen Not by labout voters But by the national executive n this is controlled demogracy in a real honest open vote Mr Benn will win hands down Britain's best PM that never was this is a crime against us all i have not voted since for me it was Mr Benn or no one else

[fearghalgill]

Whats the clip with the asian guy(presumably chinese) saying "we don't want army"

[Tougemaster06]

@fearghalgill Probably Tienanmen Square

[BLUESGUITARMANIAC]

I love this....Mr Benn ably demonstrates that we are in continual political danger because of a lack of a written constitution in Britain and are reliant on the brave and courageous people throughout our history-The peasants revolt,the Tolpuddle martyrs,the english civil war,the Chartists.

We only have our liberties because the poor and dispossessed poked peole in the eye to get them!

We MUST fight BACK....!!!

[polygamous1]

@BLUESGUITARMANIAC If there was ever to be a world government This Is the mant o lead it

[324wilson]

I very much admire this man, even though, I disagree with some of his views and policies.

[Tougemaster06]

@MrHaithwaite1992 Socialism. You have to remember commodity production preexist Capital accumulation, and thus denotes markets by themselves as something separate from capitalism. Capitalism has to do with the existence of Capital. Socialism would belittle the role Capital plays in the economy and the many social relations that are created by a system that is thoroughly governed by it.

[MrHaithwaite1992]

It's all very well for him to speak of democracy. He is an advocate of socialism. And what does that lead to, unwanted state control, eventually leading to dictatorship. And this man has the audacity to talk about liberty and how democracy is undermined. Believe or not, it's your kinda of people who cause it.

[Tougemaster06]

@MrHaithwaite1992 You sound like the kind of overpriviledge middle class brat that has never worked a day in his life. Socialism is about organization and democracy. Its PEOPLE, NOT THE STATE, controlling the means of production. Unlike your economic dictatorship of Capitalism, where private individuals control the means of production from the Public (Public meaning EVERYONE) is a tyranny that has created the monstrosity of our broken government in today's America.

[MrHaithwaite1992]

@Tougemaster06 No in fact I am a working class man who has worked and contributed to the state. You sound like some overpriviledge middle class student brat and how idiotic are you. Every single state that has ever adapted socialism has become a dictatorship. Why? in Marxist theory the state has to take control first then apparently wither away when the means of production have been distributed. When you take away peoples rights to own things, then you are moving along the route to dictatorship

[Tougemaster06]

@MrHaithwaite1992 Sweden is a dictatorship? lmao Secondly, you are confusing Marxist-Leninism for mainstream Marxism. It was Lenin's belief that the state has to take control first, not Marx's. Thirdly, I have been workign and helping keep my mom's lights on since I was 16 :p.

[MrHaithwaite1992]

@Tougemaster06 Well aren't you fanbloodytastic. Sweden may have a large public sector but that does not mean it is socialist it is a bad example because it still does have a capitalist system. Secondly, Marxist theory does involve the state. The workers must take over the state from the bourgeoisie and then distribute the means of production to the people, then the state will apparently wither away. The sad thing is though that you have been working since your 16 but you still haven't grown up.

[Tougemaster06]

@MrHaithwaite1992 Yet, the workers taking over the means of production and society is quite different then the "Vanguard of the Proletariat"; a hallmark of Bolshevik Leninism, which contrasted the 20th century communist experience with mainstream Marxist ideas that went on to survive in the Social Democratic parties of Western Europe. IF you recall reading any of Marx's works, he never says anything about central planning or single party states. Also, the prescence of markets does not negate..

[MrHaithwaite1992]

@Tougemaster06 Hang on, where getting away from the point here. The fact is Benn is talking about democracy, which according the Marxist theory is a rouse. It only serves as a way for the capitalist to maintain control and make people feel they have a part in society. So it is hypocritical of Benn to talk about it. Your right Marx does not talk about central planning or single party states but it ultimately happens anyway. Marxism is the endless search for a non existing utopia.

[Tougemaster06]

@MrHaithwaite1992 Ummm no it doesn't. Again, you are confabulating Marx with Lenin. Marx never talked about single party states, or Vanguards nor democratic centralism, all of which were the backbone of Lenin's idea of Communism; which defined the 20th century communist experience. You are arguing ideology, not facts.

[Tougemaster06]

@MrHaithwaite1992 Umm..no. Once again, you are trying to claim Lenin's Ideas as Marx's. Marx never talked about Democratic centralism, vanguards, bloody revolutions, one party states, or central planning. Marxism has nothing to do with utopia. Marxism is merely a philosophy of understanding Capitalism, and how human society develops. It is not a system of government nor is it a system of economics...

[MrHaithwaite1992]

@Tougemaster06 But this discussion did not start with us talking about Marxism. Marx laid the ground work, but subsequently people such as Lenin and Milliband have added to Marxist theory. Socialism is connected to all this figures ideas not only Marx. It was originally a way of understanding capitalism and human society but it has evolved into an ideology which Benn proposes. And ultimately this is the belief in a utopia which will never happen.

[Tougemaster06]

@MrHaithwaite1992 Marx didn't lay the groundwork for Lenin. That's like saying Jesus laid the groundwork for Hitler... Socialism predates Karl Marx. Robert Owen was the first person to actually use the term socialism. Of course, the principles of socialism date back to ancient Greece. What are your politics, sir? I am detecting a utopian capitalist..

[kaleo183rd]

IF YOU FIGHT FOR FREEDOM YOU ARE MY EQUAL

VIVA LA REVOLUTION

[grangeender1]

Marxist trash - the kind of thinking that gave us Stalin, Mao and the gulag. If people are free some will rise and become rich; others will not. The day you make everyone "equal" is the day you kill the human striving that gave us the very computers over which Tony Benn's nonsense can be spread. This old and frustrated socialist hand is not talking here about electoral democracy which has rejected him and his ideas but social democracy, which is enforced uniformity.

[TommyHolly1]

Tony Benn is no more preaching Democracy then Chomsky, Zinn, or Klein. Make no mistake, what you are watching is Communist rhetoric.

[wnxsilence]

Up since May 2007 and just a little over 20,000 views? What a shame...

It's no wonder most ordinary people are yet to comprehend the value of real participatory democracy. As long as the people of the world accept the existence of ruling classes, priveleged elites, and the dominance of such massive big business and corporate interests that shape our political systems to their own benefit, then the ideal of a truly democratic and free future for humanity remains in question.

[AngelenoLedger]

The Angeleno Ledger - World News

Int: +46 (0) 766290781

[TheZanipolo]

Benn harps on about democracy but he was nothing more than a communist tyrant when in power and he and the shitty Labour government trashed the UK economy in th 70s - he also supported IRA terrorism so he is not so keen on democracy. What he means by "democracy" is HIM IN POWER and everyone else doing what he tells them - like all communist hypcrites.

[TheElasticJesus]

@TheZanipolo Communist tyrant? And tell us, what do you remember of Tony Benn - exactly? -- Trashed UK economy? Tell us again what was your job at British Steel, British Rail, British telecom, British Coal, in the dockyards, in the car plants... Oh, sorry, you weren't even born...were you? -- Hate to tell you this but Ulster belonged to the Irish before those NICE DEMOCRATIC ANTI-COMMUNIST ANTI-TYRANNICAL BRITS MOVED IN. -- Hypocrisy? I suggest you look it up.

[TheZanipolo]

@TheElasticJesus I remember the endless strikes, the power cuts, the corrupt government propping up failing state-owned industries with taxpayer cash to buy votes, having to go to the IMF, ah yes I remember Benn's communist utopia - which he didn't have to suffer because he's peronsally very rich (there's the hypocrisy you see)- I see you you're a big fan of terrorism - the issue wasn't the Brits moving in - it's that most of Ulster already living there for hundreds of years were British

[TheElasticJesus]

@TheZanipolo

Your profile says you're 35 so lie #1 is that at the grand old age of 1 you were 'strangely' aware of your surroundings.

Socialism is a philosophy that rewarded returning WW2 troops with the NHS; something that selfish arseholes like you would have voted against.

--

As for Ireland. I didn't realise there was a rule that says invaded land becomes the property of the invader on completion of a default time limit.

As for terrorism - it's a two way street.

[monogirl3]

@TheElasticJesus spot on, but i suspect someone who so simply equates a belief in equality with communist tyranny is a lost cause. the poor soul can't tell the difference between irish nationalism and a militant faction of republicanism either, so this suggests a wider confusion about politics. imagining tony benn as a crazed commie dictator is hilarious though - so i commend him/her for the laugh at least.

[TheElasticJesus]

@monogirl3

The blowhards are all the same.

All cherry-picking of facts and no critical thinking.

My argument has always been this -

No matter how big the Jew, or how tough the Arab, the land of Canaan still belongs to the Canaanites.

End of.

As for Tony Benn: commie dictator??? LOL

Sometimes I don't know who to feel sorry for the most: the idiots or the idiots who indoctrinate them.

It's a funny old game.

[monogirl3]

@TheZanipolo supporting republicanism isn't synonymous with supporting the PIRA. & what's "ulster" again? ah yes, a 9 county province of ireland - not the sliced up british construct northern ireland. ulster had an irish nationalist majority, but they nipped that one in the bud by taking 6 counties instead. only 4 of which they had a unionist majority in. then, they ensured domination & supremacy by politically & materially disadvantaging the minority.

are you sure YOU'RE so keen on democracy?

[Guncriminal]

Democracy as an unquestionable force of good is the biggest mass delusion since god.

[Roadmincer]

well duh, anything unquestioned is surely a delusion...

[Guncriminal]

Tell that to the idiots who negatively rated my comment.

[Roadmincer]

Ah yeah, no patience, give em time bud, true genius is only appreciated in retrospect, ;)

[6marilyn6mans0n6]

i've never been exposed to English culture. I just live in US for now. Americans must be very stupid not realizing how England is playing with a toy(america). Good job England!

[PeteJones100]

@6marilyn6mans0n6 Please dont confuse England with Britain, the two terms are not interchangable

[6marilyn6mans0n6]

@PeteJones100 I think I don't have enough politics knowledge. Sorry!

[ednuttah]

@6marilyn6mans0n6 Then learn, don't let the rich and powerful run away with it! They won't tell you or wait for you to understand.

[sandinista138]

Oh no my friend....make no mistake...as the documentary states....Democracy is not good for the elite and privileged...but for the 99% of the rest of us...it's an evident truth.

[Guncriminal]

It's rarely good for anyone besides demagogues.

[SPAG22]

It's always interesting hearing Lord Benn talk about "Democ-rarrrr-cy".

[upturnedkangaroo]

@SPAG22 , He isnt a lord, he was a Viscount, he removed his title by passing the Peerage act in 1963, his son, however, will also be a Viscount upon Tony Benn's death

[cherylwens]

Even altruism itself is selfish i.e "I feel your pain"

[Roadmincer]

Surely thats a failing of how our language evolved to articulate our feelings.

Hardly the fault of the altruist...

[cherylwens]

What do you mean? That "I feel your pain" has an alternative meaning? Altruism = mirror neurons in the brain activated. We need to anticipate the feelings and motives of others in order to survive in society. Thus, we evolved to be altruistic.

[cherylwens]

And those who lag behind, c'est la vie. I consider the motives of all human beings to be grounded in egoism. Even altruism itself is selfish i.e "I feel your pain"

So what has all these gotta do with democracy/ochlocracy? There was a time when most people thought the Earth was flat. There was only one Albert Einstein. Michael Phelps was the only human being out of 6 billions to hold 7 world records in swimming. Democracy? It gave the world George W Bush. Enough said.

[hutch976]

Democracy did not give the world George W. Bush, Mr. and Mrs. Bush did actually. So indeed there are people who receive the credit for making "big leaps". You cite science. Newton, "If I have seen further it has been on the shoulders of giants."

Who is Tom Brady without his offensive line, receivers, coaches, fans, and analysts to make him so 'great'?

[cherylwens]

Shoulders of "giants". Note the emphasis on "giants". Not your average Joe with the inalienable right to the freedom of speech. If it wasn't for the bible belt, how else did W win the elections? What is rights if there isn't power to provision such entitlement?

[hutch976]

People are more often than not at high places in society because they know someone, not because of their merit.

Dan Rooney is not Ambassador to Ireland because he is qualified, but because he supported Obama. This is the same reason why Hillary is Secretary of State. This is not exclusive to the Obama Administration nor America. Meritocracy = utopia.

Newton would not have gotten where he was if not for unsung heroes of the past. That is the meaning of his quote.

[cherylwens]

I'm an advocate of meritocracy and intellectualism. I despise the current malaise in society because those who are rich do not deserve it e.g Paris Hilton, 50 cent. So I don't know what your contention is.

I do understand the meaning of that quote. But you fail to comprehend my argument. What I was saying is that freedom of (insert anything you want) should only be accorded to those who deserve it. In this case, only "giants" should be given credence and the bible fundies should stfu.

[hutch976]

Meritocracy? Yeah, people advance in the world solely because of their own hard work and merit. That's a joke. People are motivated by their own greed quite often, but there are acts motivated less by egotism and more by communal concepts.

A Buddhist monk lighting himself on fire to protest a war. A soldier jumping on a grenade to save his comrades.

[cherylwens]

Corruption is subjective. Isn't it corrupted that the allies caused Hitler to take his own life? Didn't the allies kill many Germans? Those who say power corrupts are usually those without power. They get the shorter end of the stick. So what is it that we want? World peace? Bhutan is a safe place alright. Perhaps you want the world to become as sterile and stagnant as Bhutan, all because you resent the natural hierarchy of society.

[hutch976]

Natural? What is natural? A monarchy? An aristocracy? Capitalism? Socialism? We choose our hierarchy. How then is it natural?

[cherylwens]

Is it not natural that all human beings have desires? Isn't it natural that we make the fulfilment of desires our life goals? And when we are incapable of achieving our goals, who do we turn to? Those who are capable of helping us i.e Meritocracy? Those who are born with power i.e monarchy? Or should everyone help me, regardless of their capabilities i.e socialism? Progress in society can only arise from an adherence to the natural hierarchy where elitism is to be celebrated, not scorned.

[gitbox100]

In summary this is about "People Power" and not putting faith in governments. The best things we have in this country such as the NHS were a popular idea and not those of a Government.

As TB says "All real progress comes from below".

[cherylwens]

Power should belong to those who are powerful. Any political system will work as long as its citizens are enlightened. What's the difference between 1 man making good decisions for society and 50 men making good decisions for society?

[kappy0405]

money controls everything.. yup..

now guys like Tony Benn, et al. just need to acknowledge that the corporate-government complex IS the same as the military-industrial complex IS the same as the International Bankers IS the Round Table thinktanks IS the United Nations IS the European Union IS NAFTA IS etc. etc..

This global network of the 'money changers' is so easily identifiable, it's laughable that ANYONE can deny the existence of the NWO anymore.

[Nomels]

THINK the next time you shout ~I AM FREE~! All people are Free. Braindead Slaves cost their controllers absolutely nothing and they do their own shopping.

[0nePumpChump]

CLONE TONY BENN

[MrTomlor3103]

Any fan of Benn's should seriously read his published diaries,they're informative,funny and inspired. No politician is faultless but Benn comes a damn sight closer than any other.

[venividio]

Brilliant doc.

Spot on, after the 70's we were witnessing a step back in the quality of democracy.

I think things are slowly starting to change thanks to the Internet - power to the people! :D

[mbb05jb]

no he isn't. and stop pasting this onto all his videos dickhead

[rizzi2007]

hes a true british! bless

[researchfiend]

Tony Benn is a great man.

[hanson666999]

All people are equal but some people are more equal than others. This rationale will never vanish, Orwell was right about this. Its going to be centuries before the world changes if it ever does.

[sonofcy]

But there is no harm in trying otherwise it will never happen

[blaziermissy]

Support the Venus Project......

Govt will never be free from corruption or social hierarchy

[the7thwreck]

But jews believe they are the 'chosen people', so how can there ever be democracy in the world when they do not believe that we are all equal?

[whurlyned]

In the UK Tony was always seen as a pariah. Turns out us Bennites were right.

[balbahut0g]

Brilliant ! Just BRILLIANT!

[WorldPrank]

Saw Tony Benn on sicko. Top stuff. Watching this five bit series you've posted has redifined my stoic position Peerage, Democrocy and hope for a new world...

[324wilson]

The Queen was looking quiet young (2:42). Tony been is pretty cool.

[fodao42]

I recently learned about Benn for the first time when I watched Sicko! I was completely stunned by his brilliance and the complete sense of his views and I think in the course of two days he's joined Howard Zinn and Naomi Klein as one of my favorite political philosophers.

Thanks so much for posting this video; there's probably no other way I'd have seen it over here in the states. I'll be recommending it to everyone I know.

[harleysmurf666]

Mr Benn is a very respected member here, he's not as sidelined as people often imply. Most hardline Conservatives I know disagree with many of his views but always say that they would love to have dinner with him or refer to him as a great parlementarian.

[sarahnewt]

You might want to read his diaries - I think they are available from Amazon... A true masterclass in political history, geopolitics and democracy.

[corporalclegg07]

If you search 'Tony Benn Democracy' into Google video you can watch the whole programme.

[timetochilli]

@fodao42 and chomsky

[KevvyT89]

It is a shame that his son and ilk don't have the same passion and values...

[gitbox23]

Our need for Tony Benn has never been greater than now.

[iballa2]

This man is a national treasure.

[EmpireManagement]

Tony Benn continually demonstrates an intelligence and honesty sadly lacking from the modern world. His fight for peace has been relentless and the example he has set should be guidelines for all.

[doubts]

A great man. This is education

[westphalianprinz]

The truth is every "intellectual" from Aristotle to James Madison to George Will has hated democracy (meaning social, substantive or real democracy) because that type of democracy interferes with the class privilege of the few. It's much better to have staged elections with the advertising agencies and the spin doctors (sophists?) in charge.

[Steak73]

Great documentary GREAT! GREAT! Narrated by the greatest man in British politics, Tony Benn. He, at 82 is still going strong, proving all along that he entered politics because he loves people when others from his generation "Retire" and piss of somewhere else to write a book proving all along that they were in it for themselves.