Bach - Magnificat - 12 - Gloria Patri

[earlyspring3177]

12....Answer to the question how many itty bitty fragments you can break a Magnificat Video into. Now can you answer "Why"?

[mendelbenzonah]

A fantastic conductor.... Perfectly tuned to Bach's soul!

[ChrissysVideokids]

GREAT!!!!

[wlabbee]

little late on the curve here, but for sure there no arguing one REALLY PATHETIC FACT in all this ... that being the efforts of a true visionary, great artist and all-around genuinely nice guy such as maestro Koopman are lost on drug-addled, never-washed OR rehearsed, whatever compared to amateurs/non-pros is the equal of what, well, some plumber named "Mackaronni" (hee-hee) is to Bach/God ... hold the cheese, pleeeeze ...

[BabKuechler]

Eine sehr gute Interpretation. Da stimmt alles. Zügiges Tempo, beschwingt u. dynamisch u. sowohl die Solisten als auch der Chor singen hervorragend. Ein Hörgenuß.

Dank an den Heern, der es in You tube zur Verfügungestellt hat.

B. K.

[Mackaronni]

This man looks and acts like he is on DRUGS.....

and the music sounds under-rehearsed, amateurish, and non-professional....

Bach would be embarassed to hear this.....!!!!

[magnecord]

Mooi, mooi, geweldig!

[Sailorstayfree]

He looks so gentle

i like before start

he´s strange smilles

who says "ready to start my Childs its time to sing to God"

[mirokusanna]

I love Koopman's interpretation of this, though the fast tempo of this part bothers me. Maybe it's just a dislike of change, but I prefer the approach of my choir's conductor who lets the first part (the heights of the father, the descent then rising of the son, and the descent of the holy spirit) float more. It's one of the most magical moments of the Magnificat, and it seems almost disrespectful to Christianity to make that beautiful moment so fleeting. Impermanence is a Buddhist idea anyway.

[LifeforArt]

T.K. make a joke about Bach - and not the first time. But i can not laugh at this.

[beethomozart]

ton koopman is definetely one of the best performers and directors of baroque music

[WullopPornruangwong]

Very, very cheerful. May I place Thai word, 'Thank you' here, ขอบคุณครับ.

[eriesal]

In what church was this performed?

[MittenDaneben]

@eriesal

St. Thomas church in Leipzig where Bach worked as cantor until his death.

[Elainelps0421]

Wow, there are a great many music historians and musicologists commenting on this Magnificat performance. I am a classical violinist and performing Magnificat for the first time. I have been listening here to get an idea of tempi. If Koopman's performance is not one any of you would recommend as the "Bible" of performances, could someone please suggest some that would be considered a standard or authentic interpretation? Thanks and much appreciation!

[NNomad]

I quite like the genlte play on words Bach employs for the last section: "Sicut erat in principio" - "As it was in the Begninning", using essentially the same music as the start of the Magnificat to emphasise the words. I know this certainly was by no means a new musical device, but somehow it's very fitting in this piece.

[kacharov]

Bach wirklich berührt mein Herz ... Danke Liebe Ingrid!

[crob647gtx]

this makes me want to praise God! This is the performance Bach had in mind when he composed this masterpiece!

[dancertm]

Excellent ! Bach mixed intense passion, AND total mastery of counterpoint, and this performance, and interpretation captured this understanding.

BTW, harmonically, the opening of this movement is still theoretically debated.

[DiVeronica]

it sounded like they weren't together at all when they started ascending at 0:06

[ivanjuarezmex]

Absolutelly beautiful! Thanks for posting

[Suklaakeiju]

In Hungary we do.

[bbbmm1810]

Lunga vita a Ton Koopman e alla sua grande musica!

[tacubayo2211]

yes koopman is the best

[cettychan]

magnifico! dall'inizio alla fine

[alra1975]

There are only four reasons why some people hate Ton Koopman:

A) They are ignorant;

B) They are obtuse;

C) They are envious;

D) All the previous three voices.

An intelligent, cultured, wise person with knowledge cannot hate a great musician and a highly cultured, wise, intelligent man like Ton Koopman.

[dolofonos]

Then surely Bach was an ignoramus with neither knowledge, intelligence, nor wisdom.

[camilocuesta]

@alra1975 "Intelligent" and "Highly cultured" are not musical characteristics, the ear can't grasp them. I don't like Koopman as a conductor because it just doesn't sound good to my ear. But I like hime as an organist.

[BrianBoru314]

@alra1975 Maybe they are just "Toon deaf". ;-)

[vqbyfbhgj]

@alra1975 Actually I don't think your list is exhaustive.

[Nicrossmen]

@alra1975 I can't understand WHY people can't say "I don't like": they allways have to say "I HATE, I HATE" Put some love in the word!!!!!!!! Love the love!!!! Love people!!!!

[zariguella1930]

@alra1975 The whole point of hating him is stupid. If you don't agree with some of his choices, you may comment and try to argue why, but hating and adding intolerant remarks suites perfectly with what you have just posted.

[alexgomez2]

I'm afraid there are too many experts here, but since I consider one too, I'm going to add my own argument.

[alexgomez2]

I love this rendition of the Magnificat. Much of Bach's style in this work is based on the happy joy he learned by listening to Vivaldi's. Although very German in its conception, it integrates the glorious declaration of an ecstatic Mary who, full of rejoicing makes a prophetic declaration on Israel's past, present and future. Bach wasn't an Scriptorian but his was the time of the Reformation; a time of new ideas and of new ways to expressing one's beliefs in Christ.

[mendoncacorreia]

Dear sir: I'm very sorry, but I don't understand at all what do you mean.

If you know what was (and still is) "ecstasis" to Christians, an "ecstactic Mary", if it is an argument, is surely AGAINST the tempo adopted by Koopman here.

"Reformation", as such, happened during the XVI century, long before Bach. Anyway, Lutherans (as other Protestants) have a far, far narrower perspective of Mary than Catholics; but how can that be used as argument IN FAVOUR of Koopman's tempo is hardly imaginable.

[alexgomez2]

The Protestant movement was one of hope and faith in God's Love to send his Son not to die for the world but to give life to the world. While Catholics dress their saint in purple on Eastern and dwell on the Crucifixion and death of Christ, the rest of Christianity "celebrates" His resurrection. Tempo in the Barroque is significant to represent happiness. Speed is happiness and exhilaration. I'm sure that Bach's Magnificat represent Bach's interpretation of the Magnificat and NOT Luke's.

[mendoncacorreia]

The use of trite common-places about Catholics is no argument whatsoever in any kind of discussion: anyone in good faith who has spent a moment with good-and-easy-to-read apologetics like Chesterton's "Orthodoxy" knows that what you say is simply untrue.

The ressurrected Christ "celebration" (as you call it) comes from the Orthodox and Oriental Catholic Churches, not from "the rest of Christianity": you may confirm that, viz., by comparing Byzantine Art with West European Art on Jesus.

[mendoncacorreia]

When you say that "tempo in the Barroque is significant to represent happiness", you are making a generalization (not to say an overstatement) which is bound to fail in extremely important particular cases: for instance, a 'happy' "Passion of Christ" is (to put it mildly) an obvious contradiction in terms...

(Mind you, I'm using the word "happiness" as I suppose you are using it: in its current sense - not in its religious sense, which I have explained above.)

[alexgomez2]

To use the Gospel of Luke to argue whether or not Bach was in the right "spirit" to write Magnificat isn't very smart. Bach wasn't trying to make a religious statement in behalf of the Lutheran Church but of himself. As far as Mr. mendoncacorreia's comments, I'm sorry, but they show a great deal of ignorance of style, history and basic knowledge about Bach and his times.

[mendoncacorreia]

An extraordinary statement, to be sure!

According to this, Bach would have composed "Magnificat" without understanding the meaning of Luke's Gospel: Bach, who was a Lutheran; Lutherans, who were the pioneers of the use of vernacular versions of the Holy Scriptures!

Furthermore, Bach didn't put any time marks in his scores. So, it's not enough for a maestro to know German Baroque 'style', 'history' and 'times': (s)he has ALSO to understand the lyrics of "Magnificat" to perform it as it should.

[zinpgh]

Indeed!

[mendoncacorreia]

"Bach's copy of a two volume Bible commentary by the orthodox Lutheran theologian, Abraham Calov, was discovered in the 1950s in a barn in Minnesota, purchased apparently in Germany as part of a 'job lot' of old books and brought to America by an immigrant. Its provenance was verified [...]. It contains his markings of texts for his cantatas and notes. [...] A study of the so-called Bach Bible was prepared by Robin Leaver [...] (St. Louis, Concordia Publishing House, 1985)." (sic: 'Wikipedia').

[alexgomez2]

Something more: Bach's original scores didn't have any dynamics or tempo markings. Mr. Ton Koopman therefore is entitled to use his musical discretion as far as any stylistic elements as long as they are within the parameters of the German Baroque style and believe me: His rendition is VERY MUCH within those parameters. In few words, those who choose to criticize haven't done their research work. Mr. Koopman seems to have done it very well.

[mendoncacorreia]

I never argued that Koopman was beyond "the parameters of the German Baroque STYLE".

To me, this is not about STYLE: this is about TEMPO. To imply that the TEMPO is right because the STYLE is right is to mix up questions: the STYLE may be right but the TEMPO may be wrong.

Mind you, I'm not biased: I'LL ACCEPT any proofs that the tempo Bach had in mind while wroting "Magnificat" was like THIS ONE - but they must be CONCLUSIVE PROOFS, because Luke's words are a strong argument against it.

[alexgomez2]

Sir, I'll give you conclusive proofs about Tempo when you can produce Luke's argument against them. Raphael, DaVinci and others during the Renaissance dressed the Holy family in Renaissance clothing, was because that was their interpretation on whatever Scripture they knew. Durer composed the immense array of engravings based on Luther's Bible, yet the Bible doesn't talk about dress styles. Bach likewise, based many of his compositions on Biblical passages but he used the world known to him.

[mendoncacorreia]

I presented those proofs below, namely based on one of the best Protestant exegetists ever. Mind you, he didn't say anything new about the matter: you can go back as far as you like in History of Christianity, all the (great) exegetists said the same thing about this.

As far as I know, there are no XVII-XVIII centuries "Visitation" paintings with Mary portrayed "in Koopman style" (so to speak). Anyway, to compare Music (sound and rythm) to Painting (images) is hardly of any use here.

[debartzen]

Ad major gloriam Dei

[rettiliano77]

fhjgeuif efeoi eu weou woyr w woirf oòoòw o or o8wy oiwy woiuy woy wory o9iuoeioieyr fvienvoiue doiue  fopief peiu eop eipu eààoiu cu ou8iufeiutekj vjieu fàèopi ehd oief oiufsd osifuu eoiuef oiu efoiu dsoòiwd wdio ewiou eo eoiufiycfydhjfhbjyuc eoiuw oiu eoiudpu ewpo

[magdluke]

Koopman is just another villain in the world of Bach performance. This recording constitutes some sort of anachronism & is, in places, plain bizarre.

[irishmaestro]

I'm not really very fussed over this performance, to be honest. Very, very ordinary. Oddly enough, Koopman felt the need to thin the texture substantially. Particularly noticeable is the absence of the continuo pedal notes under the triplets in the 'gloria'. And, he misses the grandeur (which is almost Handelian, actually) of the 'Spiritui Sancto' bit completely.

[gothicoboist]

All these people with such strong opinions about Bach! I love it! It is a testament to the musical relevancy to individuals listening to it that everyone thinks they know the right way or best way for it to be done. As long as the music breathes with life...thats whats important. We cannot reach authenticity nor do we need it.

[aleumoraes7]

Bach supo expresar la grandeza del creador en su musica... este video es apoteosico.... deja sin palabras

[mendoncacorreia]

2/2]

Luke's own words seem (at least to me) a very strong argument against the tempo chosen by Koopman to conduct "Magnificat" here. To my mind, "Magnificat" is to be performed with something like a quiet joy - if you prefer, with a contained happiness. If Bach had conceived it in a "just make it snappy" tempo, he would have been a very cold-hearted man - and this I find very hard to believe...

[gabrielepsycho]

Mary is overjoyed, she is singing and praising God Almighty. She doesn't just 'state' it. She is clearly excited, and jumping for joy. To play it with solemnity isn't human. If a person were to hear they were so blessed and with God's child, do you really believe they would just say in a monotone, "God has blessed me. Yay." No, they'd be like, "God has called me blessed! Let me rejoice! Huzzah!"

[mendoncacorreia]

[1/2]

I'm afraid you're wrong. Please, read again Luke's own words transcribed by me. The latin verb "aio" means "to say yes", "to affirm", "to say", "to determin", "to state". In the context, it is clearly used in contrast with the verb "exclamo", which means "to scream", "to raise one's voice", "to exclaim".

[mendoncacorreia]

[2/2]

Furthermore, the teaching of the exegetists, either Catholics or Protestants, confirm this. I'm a Catholic myself but I'll give one of the best Protestant exegetists I know: J. McNicol, "Luke's Gospel", in F. Davidson (ed.), "The New Bible Commentary", London 1954 (a classic of the kind).

[mendoncacorreia]

[Appendix]

Perhaps there is here a misunderstanding about "joy". In a religious sense, "joy" means "happiness"; "happiness" brings "peace"; "peace" is the state of rest of the soul on a true good. Mary simply "stated" because She was in peace: She had in Her womb the greatest good there is - God...

[mendoncacorreia]

1/2]

As I've written elsewhere, I'm not sure about the proofs given so far by Koopman and others about this matter of tempo, and my doubts are even greater when I think about the lyrics and their spirit. We read in Luke, 1:42.46, "Et [Elisabeth] exclamavit voce magna, et dixit [...] Et ait Maria [...]" Mary didn't 'exclaim in high voice, and said' the "Magnificat": She simply 'stated' it...

[songblam]

I have to agree with Onion: the pedal at the Gloria is a must and is sorely missed here...That being said, I listen to this Bach-on-meth version over and over...Thank you for posting....

[onionpizza]

Koopman removed the "pedal" in the Gloria. The pedal sustains the cathedral of sound that Bach built for the Gloria. This clown blew it.

[mendoncacorreia]

Beethoven said of Bach that he was "the father of harmony"... Now, I don't find any harmony here. "Gloria" is delivered in a quite flimsy way; "Sicut erat" is played with a lightning speed (why?); and "Amen" is killed at birth (so to speak). Koopman's fans may give a bit of stick for what I'm going to write, but... I don't think this is Bach at his best - very, very far from it!

[crob647gtx]

maybe not the most "pristine" recording, but still magnificent as a whole.

[mendoncacorreia]

(By the way, did the fat lady sing in this "Magnificat"? It was so fast I believe I've missed her...)

[moskva40]

The "Amen" is very hard to get used to . . . after such an amazing interpretation of the Magnificat, that abrupt, sardonic ending is just surprising on a level that I am not comfortable with at the moment.

[NihilNominis]

I do believe (and I could be wrong) that tempo rubato, and slowing down for the ending, were not invented until the Romantic period. Thus, if Bach did not write a fermata, Koopman will not play is if there is one.

[songblam]

Glorious!...pacing at intro awkward to me, leaves out some of the wide stately glory, the broader magnificence as it were, doesn't hold out some of the most moving moments in Bach history, rushes past them, but then admittedly rocks where it should! Thank you for posting! Thank you Johann! I love you!

[mikeinkc]

Koopman must be the happiest man alive,,surrounded by Bach..must feel like heaven!!

[hottgirl01]

I love this song we song this song in choir but it was a litte diffrent and faster.

[alconcerto]

Please, this is not a song. iPod calls it a song....

[firebreathone]

I love the transition between the Gloriaaaaa part and the happy instrumental part..!