وقد ش كذب؟ لقد سرقت ش؟ قال يسوع : اذا نظرتم الى امرأة مع شهوة أنك ارتكبت الزنا معها في قلبك. ش فعلت ذلك؟ إذا سوف الله القاضي من الوصايا العشر يكون بريئا أو مذنبا؟ السماء أو الجحيم؟ مخلص من خطاياك؟ يسوع (ابن الله) جاء، عاش حياة بلا خطية، ومات على الصليب (من أجل خطايانا) ، وارتفع مرة اخرى في اليوم الثالث. رومية 6:23 لأن أجرة الخطية هي موت، أما هبة الله فهي حياة أبدية بالمسيح يسوع ربنا. أفسس 2 :8 للحصول على نعمة انتم انقذت خلال الايمان، وذلك ليس منكم : هو عطية الله : 9a ليس من أعمال،...
salaam murly67 just thought id tell you imam does not mean succesor. it means the man that leads from the front from arabic root word amam which means the front. when you pray the person leading the prayer is also called the imam because he is leading the prayer from the front not because he is a succesor of anything.
Saheeh Al-Bukhari: The Prophet pbuh said, "There will be twelve leaders (Ameer) ... All of them from Quraysh." (Kitab Al-Ahkam, bab al-Estikhlaf, vol.8, p.127)
Name me 12 People who lived at that time and who had more iman and more knowledge than the 12 Imam´s.
The Messenger of Allah said to Ali: "Your position to me is like the position of Aaron (Haroon) to Moses, except that there shall be no Prophet after me"
Sunni References:
(1) Sahih al-Bukhari, Arabic-English version, Traditions 5.56, 5.700
As we see, Caliph/Imam for the mankind is assigned by Allah. See also 2:30
(about Adam). Even Prophet Moses, when he wanted to go to Miqaat, did not
ask people to form a Shura to assign a Caliph for him. Quran tells us that: (Moses said: "O' Allah) assign me a vizier from my family, (that is) my brother Aaron (Haroon) ...," (Allah) said: "We granted your requests, O' Moses." (Quran 20:29-36).
Certainly your MASTER is Allah and His Messenger and those who believe who eshtablish prayer and give charity while they bow. And who ever takes Allah and His Messenger and those who believe as a guardian, so surely the party of Allah will be victorious. (Quran 5:55-56)
It was ONLY Ali who did this, who was praying and was giving charity to the poor while he have bow.
And they can be only one master not a lot of People.
yh ok the proiphet said this. did he say "ali is leader after me, does anyone have objections?" did he say something to the likeness of tht?? no. jus be caus he said the mawla thing, it doesnt literalli mean ali has o be leader after him, its like m saying to a group of friends in from of ma cousin "whoever is my brother, is his brther" the prophet was expressing his relation ship love with him. ad no u did not prove imamah becaus it doesnt exist
And serveral Quran Verses proofs that it is only Allah who choose the Imam. Not the People! Because only he is know who is the right man for it.
Brother, so many Sunnis became shia. You find so many proofs. So i would suggest you to read the articles in the links, you find there many more. Or to buy books, i would suggest "Al-Muradschat" Inshallah!
And those who disbelieve say: Why has not a sign been sent down upon him from his Lord? You are only a warner and (there is) a guide for every people. (Quran 13:7)
Imam Ali said: "The Prophet was the warner im the guide for every people."
"Certainly Allah is Your Master, and His Prophet and those who believe who establish prayer and give charity while they bow. And whoever takes Allah and His Messenger and those who believe as a guardian, so surely the party of Allah will be victorious."
Sunni reference: Tafsir al-Kabir, by al-Tha'labi under the commentary of verses 5:55-56 of Quran.
Certainly You see us.' And You inspired him: 'O Musa! All your requests have been granted.' O Allah! I am your slave and your prophet. Delight my heart and make my task easy and appoint from among my kinsmen Ali as my vizier and strengthen my back with him."
Abu Dhar, then, proceeded
By Allah, the Messenger of Allah, Allah's blessings and peace be upon
him and his posterity had not yet finished his supplication when the
trustworthy Gabriel descended to him with this Verse
"O Allah! My brother Moses begged you saying, 'My Lord, delight my heart and make my task easy and undo the knot in my tongue so that they may understand me, and appoint from my kinsmen, Haroon, my brother, as my vizier, and strenghthen my back with him and make him participate in my mission so that we may glorify You and remember You more frequently.
One day I said my prayers in the company of the Prophet. A beggar came to the mosque and begged for alms, but nobody gave him anything. Ali was in a state of kneeling in the prayer. He pointed out his ring to the beggar, who appraoched him and removed the ring from his finger. Thereupon the Prophet, Allah's blessings and peace be upon him and his posterity, implored Allah the Mighty and Glorious, saying:
When he reached this verse he recorded this in his Tafsir al-Kabir on the
authority of Abu Dhar al-Ghifari, who said: Both of my ears may turn deaf and both of my eyes may become blind if I speak a lie. I heard the Messenger of Allah, Allah's blessings and peace be upon him and his posterity, saying, "Ali is the guide of the righteous and the slayer of the infidels. he who has helped him is victorious and he who has abandoned him is forsaken."
party of ALLAH, NOT ALI, nowhere in the quran does it say ali should have been leader after muhammad. my god u shi'ites treat ali better thn a prophet astaghfirullah. now try and prove imamah in the quran
Im Sorry but Sunni Tafsir say its Ali! You cant read Quran without tafsir because some verses have "hidings". Thats because Allah want to protect his Quran. Like Surah Tahreem, Why Allah say "you two" instead of "Aisha and Hafsa"
nothing to be sori about caus its simply not true. when did ali ever HIMSELF say, OR WHEN DID THE PROPHET SAY ali should be leader after muhammad. they didnt, u tell me why they didnt sayhe should be leader?
and u still havent managed to prove imamah the quran, something thts supposed to be a pillar and so important. pleaser prve it to me so i can see its importance
Certainly your Master is Allah and His Messenger and those who believe who eshtablish prayer and give charity while they bow (Imam Ali). And who ever takes Allah and His Messenger and those who believe as a guardian, so surely the party of Allah will be victorious. (Quran 5:55-56)
I said "I will be your helper, O' prophet of God." He put his hand on the back of my neck and said "This is my brother, my executor (Wasi), my successor(Caliph) among you, so listen to him and obey him." They rose up laughing and saying to Abu Talib, "He has commanded you to obey your son and to obey him!"
Then he spoke to them, saying, "Banu Abd al-Muttalib, I don't know of any young man among Arabs who has brought for his people something better than what I have brought to you. I bring the best of this world and the world after, since God has commanded me to summon you to him. Which of you will aid me in this matter, so that he will be my brother, my executor (Wasi), my successor (Caliph) among you?" They all held back, and even though I was the youngest,
I would have cast the rope of Caliphate on its own shoulders, and would have given the last one the same treatment as to the first one. Then you would have seen that in my view this world of yours is no better than the sneezing of a goat.
Yes, by Allah, they had heard it and understood it but the world appeared glittering in their eyes and its embellishments seduced them. Behold, by Him who split the grain (to grow) and created living beings, if people had not come to me and supporters had not exhausted the argument and if there had been no pledge of Allah with the learned to the effect that they should not acquiesce in the gluttony of the oppressor and the hunger of the oppressed
That abode in the hereafter, We assign it for those who intend not to exult themselves in the earth, nor (to make) mischief (therein); and the end is (best) for the pious ones. (Qur'an, 28:83)
yh tht was for the case o9f the other prophets, not after the prophet though. if allah wanted he wud have made ali leader himself. bu he didnt, strange how he didnt init. and no he didnt send jibril to ali to be given leader ship, thts something made up by u, the people who follow the teachings of the fake muslims abdullah bin sabah, if it werent for him, there wudnt be u shias argueing for nothing
At that moment, nothing took me by surprise, but the crowd of people rushing to me. It advanced towards me from every side like the mane of the hyena so much so that Hasan and Husayn were getting crushed and both the ends of my shoulder garment were torn. They collected around me like the herd of sheep and goats. When I took up the reins of government one party broke away and another turned disobedient while the rest began acting wrongfully as if they had not heard the word of Allah saying:
One of them turned against me because of his hatred and the other got inclined the other way due to his in-law relationship and this thing and that thing, till the third man of these people stood up with heaving breasts between his dung and fodder. With him his children of his grand-father, (Umayyah) also stood up swallowing up Allah's wealth(5) like a camel devouring the foliage of spring, till his rope broke down, his actions finished him and his gluttony brought him down prostrate.
Nevertheless, I remained patient despite length of period and stiffness of trial, till when he went his way (of death) he put the matter (of Caliphate) in a group(4) and regarded me to be one of them. But good Heavens! what had I to do with this "consultation"? Where was any doubt about me with regard to the first of them that I was now considered akin to these ones? But I remained low when they were low and flew high when they flew high.
One in contact with it was like the rider of an unruly camel. If he pulled up its rein the very nostril would be slit, but if he let it loose he would be thrown. Consequently, by Allah people got involved in recklessness, wickedness, unsteadiness and deviation.
brother i be onest. im not reading all this stuff u say caus it aint getting nowhere. u cannot and hav not proven anythiung to me from allah sayin tht ali should be leader after prophet. now lemme ask u something. if u can prove imamah to me in the quran, i will become shi'ite right now. prove imamah to me
Certainly your Master is Allah and His Messenger and those who believe who eshtablish prayer and give charity while they bow (Imam Ali). And who ever takes Allah and His Messenger and those who believe as a guardian, so surely the party of Allah will be victorious. (Quran 5:55-56)
Muhammad s.a.w came with the complete and last message. He told us we will be split into sects like those before us.we need to remember what Allah swt said to Rasulalla that Allah swt is the one that guides. so we need to do dua asking for guidence. if you fulfil the requirements for the acceptance of dua. Allah swt will never turn you away.
It is strange that during his lifetime he wished to be released from the caliphate but he confirmed it for the other one after his death. No doubt these two shared its udders strictly among themselves. This one put the Caliphate in a tough enclosure where the utterance was haughty and the touch was rough. Mistakes were in plenty and so also the excuses therefore.
I watched the plundering of my inheritance till the first one went his way but handed over the Caliphate to Ibn al-Khattab after himself.
(Then he quoted al-A`sha's verse). My days are now passed on the camel's back (in difficulty) while there were days (of ease) when I enjoyed the company of Jabir's brother Hayyan.(3)
Then I began to think whether I should assault or endure calmly the blinding darkness of tribulations wherein the grown up are made feeble and the young grow old and the true believer acts under strain till he meets Allah (on his death). I found that endurance thereon was wiser. So I adopted patience although there was pricking in the eye and suffocation (of mortification) in the throat.
Beware! By Allah the son of Abu Quhafah (Abu Bakr)(2) dressed himself with it (the caliphate) and he certainly knew that my position in relation to it was the same as the position of the axis in relation to the hand-mill. The flood water flows down from me and the bird cannot fly upto me. I put a curtain against the caliphate and kept myself detached from it.
This speech of mine was extempore and was being delivered at the impulse of that moment like the Shiqshiqiyyah (the roar of a camel), it can't be continued." So far as the subject is concerned the sermon is self-explanatory.]
Sermon 7/3 of Nahjul Balagha Survey of the period after the demise of the Holy Prophet (PBUH&HF)
[This is the famous sermon of Shiqshiqiyyah. It is so named because while Imam Ali was delivering it an Iraqi got up and presented a letter to him. He got busy in reading it. When he had finished the letter Abdullah Ibn Abbas requested him to continue his sermon. The Imam replied, " Ibn Abbas !
In some versions of the Tradition of Ghadir Khum there is an extra sentence
that is he Prophet (PBUH&HF) said: "Wa dara al-haqq ma'ahu haithu dar", literally: "And the truth (the right path) turns with him (i.e. Ali) wherever way he turns."
Sunni reference: Tafsir al-Kabir, by Fakhr al-Din al-Razi, under the commentary of "al-Bismilah"
"Whoever wishes to live and die like me, and to abide in the Garden of Eden after death, should acknowledge Ali as WALI after me, and take his WALI (i.e., Imams after him) as WALI, and should follow the Imams after me for they are my Ahlul-Bayt and are created from my clay and are gifted with the same knowledge and understanding as myself. Woe unto those who deny their virtues and those who disregard their relationship and affinity with me, for my intercession shall never reach them."
Ali came to the plain of Rahbah, and some people told him "Peace on you O' our MAWLA!" Ali replied: "How can I be your MAWLA while you are Arabs (free men)?" They said: "We heard the Messenger of Allah (PBUH) on the day of Ghadir Khum who said: `Whoever I was his MAWLA he (Ali) is his MAWLA.'"
Sunni reference: Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v5, p419
yh ok, now this came from the prophet himself from tirmidhi, clearly showing tht abu bakr was right in being the leader. "if abu bakr is amongst a people, it is wrong for any1 else to lead them. now compare wa u said about mawla to this clear example of how abu bakr had right over any1 else. at the time of khalifah of abu bakr, did ali at any time rebel or say in anyway from his own mouth tht umar and abu bakr are wrong. i wish to see some proof of alis sayin tht abu bakr was wrong.
with a sound chain it is narrated in tabranis al aswat, the messenger of allah said:"verily allah dislikes tht abu bakr be contradicted". given this u can stil com on and say tht ali should hav been this or tht without a direct mention tht ali himself should be leader. u are purposely following wat u want brother, u dont see reality, the fact tht shias will remain in minority and sunnis will always hav upperhand
Prophet (PBUH) asked three times: "O' people! Who is your MAWLA? They replied: Allah and His Messenger." Then he grasped the hand of Ali and raised it and said: "Whoever his WALI is Allah and his Messenger, then this man is his WALI also."
Ali Ibn Abi Talib was asked about the saying of the Messenger of Allah "Whomever I am his MAWLA then Ali is his MAWLA". He said: "He erected me chief ['alaman]. To the time I am up there, whomever contradicts me then he is lost (misguided in religion)."
Sunni reference: Zain al-Fata, by al-Hafiz al-'Asimi
Other Sunni traditionists narrated that on the day of Saqifah: Umar said: "Ali Ibn Abi Talib, Zubair Ibn Awwam and those who were with them separated from us (and gathered) in the house of Fatimah, the daughter of the messenger of Allah."
They demanded confirmation of the oath, but Ali and al-Zubair stayed away. Al-Zubair drew his sword (from the scabbard), saying, "I will not put it back until the oath of allegiance is rendered to Ali." When this news reached Abu Bakr and Umar, the latter said, "Hit him with a stone and seize the sword." It is stated that Umar rushed (to the door of the House of Fatimah) and brought them forcibly while telling that they must give their oath of allegiance willingly or unwillingly.
My Brother if you think a little. The Prophet said whoever im his leader, Ali is his Leader.
And then the last Quran verse came where Allah said "Today i have completed your Religion."
And then look at the Tragedy of Thursday. Where the Prophet wanted a paper with a pencil. He wanted to write a testament, so that the Ummah will never go wrong way. Why did Umar said "You are ill, the Quran is enough for us."
and why didnt the prophet directly say ali shud be leader after me, plz explain why them prophets desires as u say, were not expressd. wat u say is true but the prophet only said this becaus before he died he said tht he wished for the ummah to love his family, THTS THE REASON, not becaus he wanted ali to be leader. ali himself said good things about umar and abu bakr with his own mouth, no matter is they walked away, and still, no they wudnt walk away unless they hav a gud reason.
He did, im sorry but read the hadith again. And here are others:
When the Messenger of Allah spoke of (Tradition of Ghadir)..., Salman stood up and said: "O' Messenger of Allah! What does WALAA mean? and how?" Prophet replied: "The same way that I am your WALI (Wala-un ka wala'i). Whomever (considered me) I was more deserving in him than himself, then Ali is more deserving in him than himself."
So if any person gives the Pledge of allegiance to somebody (to become a Caliph) without consulting the other Muslims, then the one he has selected should not be granted allegiance, lest both of them should be killed."
So he said even if that would be happen again the people should be killed.
cant u see why allah took away the prophets children from him. to prevent idolizing. imagin how bad it wud hav been if the prophet had children. throughout time its strange how u say this yet sunni muslims hav ALWAYS remained the majority.
Umar added, "By Allah, apart from the great tragedy that had happened to us (i.e. the death of the Prophet), there was no greater problem than the allegiance pledged to Abu Bakr because we were afraid that if we left the people, they might give the Pledge of allegiance after us to one of their men, in which case we would have given them our consent for something against our real wish, or would have opposed them and caused great trouble.
While I was in his house at Mina, and he was with 'Umar bin Al-Khattab during 'Umar's last Hajj, Abdur-Rahman came to me and said, "Would that you had seen the man who came today to the Chief of the Believers ('Umar), saying, 'O Chief of the Believers! What do you think about so-and-so who says, 'If 'Umar should die, I will give the pledge of allegiance to such-and-such person, as by Allah,
Imam Ali didnt gave her daughter Umm-Khultum to Umar. A Hadith from Imam Sadiq proofs that.
In the Shiite View, Umm Khulthum married the son of Jafar Tayyar.
By the way 4 or 5 Wives of Umar had the name Umm-Khultum.
Sunni Historians say that the Wedding of Umm-Khulthum and Umar was in the 17. Hijra. They also say she was 4 or 5 years old, so she would have born in 12. or 13. Hijra.
Sunni References: (History of Abul Fida, vol I P. 171, Al Farooq von Shibli Numani, vol II P. 539)
in a mutawatir hadithnarrated by imam ahmad, ali r.a. said
"the best of this ummah after her prophet is abu bakr and umar." this as opposed o ur indirect quotes is direct from the mouth of ali, ye u ha the nerve to sa he shud be leader.
Ok lets tell me one Hadith from Shia referenes where Ali said something good about Umar and Abu bakr.
And why did Ali said something good about Abu bakr and Umar but separated from them. It´s like i say to you "I like you" but if you try to speak me i go away.
When Umar came to the door of the house of Fatimah, he said: "By Allah, I shall burn down (the house) over you unless you come out and give the oath of allegiance (to Abu Bakr)."
They demanded confirmation of the oath, but Ali and al-Zubair stayed away. Al-Zubair drew his sword (from the scabbard), saying, "I will not put it back until the oath of allegiance is rendered to Ali." When this news reached Abu Bakr and Umar, the latter said, "Hit him with a stone and seize the sword." It is stated that Umar rushed (to the door of the House of Fatimah) and brought them forcibly while telling that they must give their oath of allegiance willingly or unwillingly.
Other Sunni traditionists narrated that on the day of Saqifah: Umar said: "Ali Ibn Abi Talib, Zubair Ibn Awwam and those who were with them separated from us (and gathered) in the house of Fatimah, the daughter of the messenger of Allah."
Al-Bukhari narrated: Umar said: "And no doubt after the death of the Prophet we were informed that the Ansar disagreed with us and gathered in the shed of Bani Sa'da. 'Ali and Zubair and whoever was with them, opposed us, ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ while the emigrants gathered with Abu Bakr."
Sunni Reference: Sahih al-Bukhari, Arabic-English, v8, Tradition #817
It is also recorded that: When Ali said to Anas: "Why don't you stand up and testify what you heard from the Messenger of Allah on the day of Ghadir?" He answered, "O Amir al-Mumineen! I have grown old and do not remember." Thereupon Ali said: "May Allah mark you with a white spot (of leprosy; Alphosis) unconcealable with your turban, if you are intentionally withholding the truth."
And before Anas got up from his place he bore a large white spot on his face, Thereafter Anas used to say, "I am under the curse of the righteous servant of Allah."
(1) al-Ma'arif, by Ibn Qutaybah, p14, in the account of Anas among disabled persons.
(2) Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v1, p199, where he testifies to the above anecdote, as he says : "All stood up except three persons who came under the curse of Ali."
Notice that "Ukhlufni" and "Khalifa" (Caliph) are exactly from the same
root.
In this connection, let us take a look at the following interesting
tradition in Sahih al-Bukhari: The Messenger of Allah said to Ali: "Your position to me is like the position of Aaron (Haroon) to Moses, except that there shall be no Prophet after me"
u have failed to show tht ali sould have been imam as he ddnot himself say tht he should be lade after the prophet and u hav not prve imamah in the quran. therefore u cannot say anithing. i can tell u all i want but ur too brainwashed to giva a damn about anything else
s we see, Caliph/Imam for the mankind is assigned by Allah. See also 2:30
(about Adam). Even Prophet Moses, when he wanted to go to Miqaat, did not
ask people to form a Shura to assign a Caliph for him. Quran tells us that: (Moses said: "O' Allah) assign me a vizier from my family, (that is) my brother Aaron (Haroon) ...," (Allah) said: "We granted your requests, O' Moses." (Quran 20:29-36).
alah did not clearly say in the quran tht ali shoulkd be the master and neither did ali the lion of allah u claim he is fight against ppl who said he shudnt be regardles of paience, it had nothing to do with patience. he was given glad tidings to bear patience for rewards, not becaus there wud be chaos. if so, why wud he giv his daughter to umar at the time of his khilafah???
Even in the Quran Allah has appointed Imam Ali as the Wali (Master).
Certainly your Master is Allah and His Messenger and those who believe who eshtablish prayer and give charity while they bow. And who ever takes Allah and His Messenger and those who believe as a guardian, so surely the party of Allah will be victorious. (Quran 5:55-56)
You can find several Hadithes in which the Prophet himself said that Ali is the Caliph.
Abdullah Ibn Masud narrated: The messenger of Allah (PBUH&HF) ordered me to follow him, on the
night of the Jinn. I went with him until we reached the hight of Macca... (the prophet) said: "I was promised that the Jinn and human will believe in me. As to the human they believed in me, as to the Jinn you have seen"; he continued: "I feel that my end is drawing near."
I said: O Messenger of Allah, won't you make Abu Bakr as your Caliph? He turned away from me, so I realized that he disagreed; I said: O Messenger of Allah, won't you make Umar as your Caliph? He turned away from me, so I realized that he disagreed; I said: O Messenger of Allah, won't you make Ali as your Caliph? He said: "(That's) him. By the One whom there is no God beside Him, if you chose him and obeyd him He (Allah) entered you into Paradise all together."
"Nor does he (prophet) speak out of his desire. (What he says) is nothing but revelation that is revealed." (Quran 53:3-4).
That means also that the what the Prophet said in Ghadier Khum that Ali is the Succesor after the Prophet was a revelation from Allah! Allah wanted Imam Ali as a Succesor.
You can find even a Hadith in which the Prophet said:
"I didnt choosed Ali by myself, it was Allah who choosed him."
And in you can find several Verses that Proofs, that is only Allah who choose the Imam.
Allāh chose Adam, Nûh (Noah), the family of Ibrāhim (Abraham) and the family of 'Imrān above the 'Alamīn (mankind and jinns) (of their times). (Aali Imran 3:33)
And remember that Abraham was tried by his Lord with certain commands, which he fulfilled: He said: "I will make thee an Imam to the Nations." (02:124)
Sahih al-Bukhari Hadiths: 9.468 and 7.573 Narrated Ibn 'Abbas:
When the time of the death of the Prophet approached while there were some men in the house, and among them was 'Umar Ibn al-Khatttab, the Prophet said: "Come near let me write for you a writing after which you will never go astray." '
Umar said: "The Prophet is seriously ill, and you have the Quran, so Allah's Book is sufficient for us." The people in the house differed and disputed. Some of them said, "Come near so that Allah's Apostle may write for you a writing after which you will not go astray," while the others said what 'Umar said.
When they made much noise and quarreled greatly in front of the Prophet, he said to them, "Go away and leave me." Ibn 'Abbas used to say, "It was a great disaster that their quarrel and noise prevented Allah's Apostle from writing a statement for them.
It is narrated in Sahih Muslim that: Ibn Abbas said: "Thursday! And how tragic that Thursday was!" Then Ibn Abbas cried severely so that his tears flowed to his cheeks. Then he added Prophet said: "Bring me a flat bone or a sheet and an ink so that I could write (order to write) a statement that will prevent you people to go astray after me." They said: "Verily the messenger of Allah is talking no sense."
i think i had misunderstood you. You said "How can the angel make mistake and go to Ali (as.) instead of Muhammad (saw.). I think you mean that Ali (as.) is a Prophet? Where is that Lie coming from? There are NO Prophets after Muhammad (saw.) in Islam. Prophet Muhammad (saw.) is the LAST Prophet.
and the prophet may have said all this about ali. no doubt ali was a great man. he was saifullah but abu bakr was closer to muhammad. he led the prayers after the prophet and every1 came to him after he prophets death saws so yes they were rightly chosen
ok now look at the chain of events. the prophet said whosever i am his mawla and al tht right. did he say tht ali should be the leader after him, specifically? and at the time of choosing the first khalifah brotha explain why ali didnt stand up and stop the choosing or rebel, after all we all accept him as the lion of allah and this lion of allah would do anything to be in charge if thts what was wanted at tht time. u shud undastand tyht ali did not himself declare this
Mawla means master and guardian. Because the Prophet said to him (before his death) that he should have patience (the Prophet asked Ali if he would have patience if these things happen) Ali replied yes. The Prophet said that if he would have no Patience, then there would be no Islam today. ( I can post the Hadith if u want ) Of course he could have defendend his right but then bye bye Islam...
did the prophet clearly himself say with his own mouth anything in accordance with the following. "ali should be master after me", had he said this, ther wud be no discusion and ali wud hav had control. the prophet gave him glad tidings by telling him to bear patience and seein as the prophet didnt himself declare ali shud be next in leadership, everything went fine. post me one hadith wher ali said himself he shud be after the prophet leader.
Yes too bad there is such thing as Shia and Sunni.But then I think how can a angel(send by God)make a mistake and went to Mohammed s.w.t in place of Ali.You are speaking of a angel(Jibriel)making a mistake?Sorry but then I think shia's must really think again about what they are doing because they made a great mistake about the REAL religion of ISLAM But,as you worship ALLAH I could only say :Selam and may Allah forgive those who believe anyting else then that ALlah want the mankind to believe.
no mate sori thts not tru. ali himself never said anything at the choosing of abu bakr being khalifah. if he was the lion of allah u say, then he surely wud have said something. sunnis follow the truth. imagine how chaotic it wud have got if the prophet muhammad had children. thats the reason allah took them away from him. to prevent idolizing and worshipping him which the prophet never taught. THINK ABOUT IT BROTHER. dont be arrogant and follow ur ways becaus u want to. look for the truth
First of all, i think i had misunderstood you. You said "How can the angel make mistake and go to Ali (as.) instead of Muhammad (saw.). I think you mean that Ali (as.) is a Prophet? Where is that Lie coming from? There are NO Prophets after Muhammad (saw.) in Islam. Prophet Muhammad (saw.) is the LAST Prophet.
salam. no way do i say ali was a prophet. wat i am sayin is tht all the khulafa were rightly chosen and couldnt have been chosen better or any other way
"O Apostle! Deliver what has been sent down to you from your Lord; and if you don't do it, you have not delivered His message (at all); and Allah will protect you from the people ..." (Quran 5:67).
Some of Sunni references confirming that the revelation of the above verse of Quran was right before the speech of Prophet in Ghadir Khum:
(1) Tafsir al-Kabir, by Fakhr al-Razi, under commentary of verse 5:67, v12, pp 49-50, narrated on the authorities of Ibn Abbas, al-Bara Ibn Azib, and Muhammad Ibn Ali.
(2) Asbab al-Nuzool, by al-Wahidi, p50, narrated on the authorities of Atiyyah and Abu Sa'id al Khudri.
The Messenger of Allah declared: "It seems the time approached when I shall be called away (by Allah) and I shall answer that call. I am leaving for you two precious things and if you adhere both of them, you will never go astray after me. They are the Book of Allah and my progeny, that is my Ahlul-Bayt. The two shall never separate from each other until they come to me by the Pool (of Paradise)."
Then the Messenger of Allah continued: "Do I not have more right over the believers than what they have over themselves?" People cried and answered: "Yes, O' Messenger of God." Then Prophet (PBUH) held up the hand of Ali and said: "Whoever I am his leader (Mawla), Ali is his leader (Mawla). O' God, love those who love him, and be hostile those who are hostile to him."
(14) Habib al-Siyar, by Mir Khand, v1, part 3, p144
(15) Sawaiq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar al-Haythami, p26
(16) al-Isabah, by Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani, v2, p509; v1, part1, p319, v2, part1, p57, v3, part1, p29, v4, part 1, pp 14,16,143
(17) Tabarani, who narrated from companions such as Ibn Umar, Malik Ibn al-Hawirath, Habashi Ibn Junadah, Jari, Sa'd Ibn Abi Waqqas, Anas Ibn Malik, Ibn Abbas, Amarah,Buraydah,...
Immediately after the Prophet (PBUH&HF) finished his speech, the following
verse of Holy Quran was revealed: "Today I have perfected your religion and completed my bounty upon you, and I was satisfied that Islam be your religion." (Quran 5:3)
get me one hadith with which ali himself said after he became khalifah tht he shud hav been leader before, becaus after al, he ws in control, he clearly wud hav said something. the reality is tht he didnt say any of what u wanted him to say and even with wat i am tellin u u stil dont accept the 4 khalifahs. abu bakr was one of the main converts hu understood the prophet. hu took ova the salah after the prophets death. plz tel me?? this person had more right
About the Battle of Camel, al-Hakim and Ahmad Ibn Hanbal and others
recorded that:
We were in the camp of Ali on the day of Battle of Camel, where Ali sent for Talha to talk to him (before the beginning of war). Talha came forward, and Ali told him:
I adjure you by Allah! Didn't you hear the Messenger of Allah (PBUH&HF) when he said: `Whoever I am his MAWLA, this Ali is his MAWLA. O God, love whoever loves him, and be hostile to whoever is hostile to him'?" Talha replied: "Yes." Ali said: "Then why do you want to fight me?"
ok so did ali take action against these people becaus like i said before, he was lion of allah not afraid to die in sake of islam. if this was the case, he wud hav died tryin to become leader. i agree he said this but this doesnt exactly mean he wanted to become leader. exactly battle of camel. wat if he wanted to be leadr of the battle who took charge of the army, tht cud hav been a possibility
The Prophet asked him: Will you have Patience if they take away your right? And at the end of the hadith he says that it is your duty to be Patient.
Remember the Quran aya in which allah says "Nor does he (prophet) speak out of his desire. (What he says) is nothing but revelation that is revealed." (Quran 53:3-4).
So it was a command by Allah that Imam Ali must have Patience.
The Prophet said also will you have patience if they dont give khums and beat your wive?
mashallah jazak Allah
ghulammoustafa 3 months ago
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وقد ش كذب؟ لقد سرقت ش؟ قال يسوع : اذا نظرتم الى امرأة مع شهوة أنك ارتكبت الزنا معها في قلبك. ش فعلت ذلك؟ إذا سوف الله القاضي من الوصايا العشر يكون بريئا أو مذنبا؟ السماء أو الجحيم؟ مخلص من خطاياك؟ يسوع (ابن الله) جاء، عاش حياة بلا خطية، ومات على الصليب (من أجل خطايانا) ، وارتفع مرة اخرى في اليوم الثالث. رومية 6:23 لأن أجرة الخطية هي موت، أما هبة الله فهي حياة أبدية بالمسيح يسوع ربنا. أفسس 2 :8 للحصول على نعمة انتم انقذت خلال الايمان، وذلك ليس منكم : هو عطية الله : 9a ليس من أعمال،...
standingontruth1 3 months ago in playlist quran
Mashallah!!!!!
Maturidi333 7 months ago
ich höre und bete gleichzeitig für denn frieden
agesto76 1 year ago
ich höre und bete gleichzeitig für denn frieden
agesto76 1 year ago
machaallah
064086896 1 year ago
ALLAHU AKBAR ALLAHU AKBAR
la ilaha illa ALLAH !!!!!!!!!!!
19Pustekuchen94 1 year ago
allah allah
tounsiyAaable 2 years ago
let the Qur,aan clean our hearts.
inshaALLAH
truthlover114 2 years ago 5
sobhan allah!
amir64287 2 years ago 4
very nice good voice
zeainali09 3 years ago 4
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allah is a fag
drunkingdeutschmen 3 years ago
Just think logically, What is needed to be a Imam (Succesor)
the man who have most IMAN and Knowledge right?
But who know which man has the most Iman and knowledge.
Allah knows best!
murly67 3 years ago 7
salaam murly67 just thought id tell you imam does not mean succesor. it means the man that leads from the front from arabic root word amam which means the front. when you pray the person leading the prayer is also called the imam because he is leading the prayer from the front not because he is a succesor of anything.
howdyadoo 3 years ago 2
Saheeh Al-Bukhari: The Prophet pbuh said, "There will be twelve leaders (Ameer) ... All of them from Quraysh." (Kitab Al-Ahkam, bab al-Estikhlaf, vol.8, p.127)
Name me 12 People who lived at that time and who had more iman and more knowledge than the 12 Imam´s.
murly67 3 years ago
To answer your question: Yes he said that Ali is the Leader after me:
The Prophet said to Ali:
"This is my brother, my executor (Wasi), my successor(Caliph) among you, so listen to him and obey him."
Sunni References:
(1) History of al-Tabari, English version, v6, pp 88-91
(2) History of Ibn Athir, v2, p62
(3) History of Ibn Asakir, v1, p85
(4) Tafsir al-Durr al-Manthoor, by al-Hafidh Jalaluddin al-Suyuti, v5, p97
(5) Tafsir al-Khazin, by Ala'uddin al-Shafi'i, v3, p371
murly67 3 years ago
And now see what the Prophet have said to Ali:
The Messenger of Allah said to Ali: "Your position to me is like the position of Aaron (Haroon) to Moses, except that there shall be no Prophet after me"
Sunni References:
(1) Sahih al-Bukhari, Arabic-English version, Traditions 5.56, 5.700
(2) Sahih Muslim, Arabic, v4, pp 1870-71
(3) Sunan Ibn Majah, p12
(4) Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v1, p174
(5) al-Khasa'is, by al-Nisa'i, pp 15-16
(6) Mushkil al-Athar, by al-Tahawi, v2, p309
murly67 3 years ago
As we see, Caliph/Imam for the mankind is assigned by Allah. See also 2:30
(about Adam). Even Prophet Moses, when he wanted to go to Miqaat, did not
ask people to form a Shura to assign a Caliph for him. Quran tells us that: (Moses said: "O' Allah) assign me a vizier from my family, (that is) my brother Aaron (Haroon) ...," (Allah) said: "We granted your requests, O' Moses." (Quran 20:29-36).
murly67 3 years ago
and as i said before even SUNNI TAFSIR say its ALI! Dont you believe in your own books?
Sunni sources:
(1) Tafsir al-Kabir, by Ahmad Ibn Muhammad al-Tha'labi, under Verse 5:55
(2) Tafsir al-Kabir, by Ibn Jarir al-Tabari, v6, pp 186,288-289
(3) Tafsir Jamiul Hukam al-Quran, by Muhammad Ibn Ahmad Qurtubi, v6, p219
(4) Tafsir al-Khazin, v2, p68
(5) Tafsir al-Durr al-Manthoor, by al-Suyuti, v2, pp 293-294
(6) Tafsir al-Kashshaf, by al-Zamakhshari, Egypt 1373, v1, pp 505,649
murly67 3 years ago
Certainly your MASTER is Allah and His Messenger and those who believe who eshtablish prayer and give charity while they bow. And who ever takes Allah and His Messenger and those who believe as a guardian, so surely the party of Allah will be victorious. (Quran 5:55-56)
It was ONLY Ali who did this, who was praying and was giving charity to the poor while he have bow.
And they can be only one master not a lot of People.
murly67 3 years ago
yh ok the proiphet said this. did he say "ali is leader after me, does anyone have objections?" did he say something to the likeness of tht?? no. jus be caus he said the mawla thing, it doesnt literalli mean ali has o be leader after him, its like m saying to a group of friends in from of ma cousin "whoever is my brother, is his brther" the prophet was expressing his relation ship love with him. ad no u did not prove imamah becaus it doesnt exist
Vmax786 3 years ago
Do you think Allah left his People without an Imam? Do you think Allah let his People choose the Imam (Succesor)?
Look at the Quran: "O' David, we assigned you as Caliph (successor) on the earth ..." (Quran 38:26)
"... We have assigned you (Abraham) as Imam (leader) for people ..." (Quran 2:124)
So who choose the Imam? The People or Allah?
murly67 3 years ago
düprt
strongdeniz 3 years ago
süper
strongdeniz 3 years ago
And serveral Quran Verses proofs that it is only Allah who choose the Imam. Not the People! Because only he is know who is the right man for it.
Brother, so many Sunnis became shia. You find so many proofs. So i would suggest you to read the articles in the links, you find there many more. Or to buy books, i would suggest "Al-Muradschat" Inshallah!
May Allah bless you.
murly67 3 years ago
And those who disbelieve say: Why has not a sign been sent down upon him from his Lord? You are only a warner and (there is) a guide for every people. (Quran 13:7)
Imam Ali said: "The Prophet was the warner im the guide for every people."
Sunni References:
Al-Hakim (Al-Mustadrak)
murly67 3 years ago
"Certainly Allah is Your Master, and His Prophet and those who believe who establish prayer and give charity while they bow. And whoever takes Allah and His Messenger and those who believe as a guardian, so surely the party of Allah will be victorious."
Sunni reference: Tafsir al-Kabir, by al-Tha'labi under the commentary of verses 5:55-56 of Quran.
murly67 3 years ago
Certainly You see us.' And You inspired him: 'O Musa! All your requests have been granted.' O Allah! I am your slave and your prophet. Delight my heart and make my task easy and appoint from among my kinsmen Ali as my vizier and strengthen my back with him."
Abu Dhar, then, proceeded
By Allah, the Messenger of Allah, Allah's blessings and peace be upon
him and his posterity had not yet finished his supplication when the
trustworthy Gabriel descended to him with this Verse
murly67 3 years ago
"O Allah! My brother Moses begged you saying, 'My Lord, delight my heart and make my task easy and undo the knot in my tongue so that they may understand me, and appoint from my kinsmen, Haroon, my brother, as my vizier, and strenghthen my back with him and make him participate in my mission so that we may glorify You and remember You more frequently.
murly67 3 years ago
One day I said my prayers in the company of the Prophet. A beggar came to the mosque and begged for alms, but nobody gave him anything. Ali was in a state of kneeling in the prayer. He pointed out his ring to the beggar, who appraoched him and removed the ring from his finger. Thereupon the Prophet, Allah's blessings and peace be upon him and his posterity, implored Allah the Mighty and Glorious, saying:
murly67 3 years ago
When he reached this verse he recorded this in his Tafsir al-Kabir on the
authority of Abu Dhar al-Ghifari, who said: Both of my ears may turn deaf and both of my eyes may become blind if I speak a lie. I heard the Messenger of Allah, Allah's blessings and peace be upon him and his posterity, saying, "Ali is the guide of the righteous and the slayer of the infidels. he who has helped him is victorious and he who has abandoned him is forsaken."
murly67 3 years ago
party of ALLAH, NOT ALI, nowhere in the quran does it say ali should have been leader after muhammad. my god u shi'ites treat ali better thn a prophet astaghfirullah. now try and prove imamah in the quran
Vmax786 3 years ago
Please read the other posts i made aswell. Of course Shiites are NOT treating Ali than Prophet Muhammad (Na Asubillah)
murly67 3 years ago
Im Sorry but Sunni Tafsir say its Ali! You cant read Quran without tafsir because some verses have "hidings". Thats because Allah want to protect his Quran. Like Surah Tahreem, Why Allah say "you two" instead of "Aisha and Hafsa"
murly67 3 years ago
nothing to be sori about caus its simply not true. when did ali ever HIMSELF say, OR WHEN DID THE PROPHET SAY ali should be leader after muhammad. they didnt, u tell me why they didnt sayhe should be leader?
and u still havent managed to prove imamah the quran, something thts supposed to be a pillar and so important. pleaser prve it to me so i can see its importance
Vmax786 3 years ago
I have posted you already the event of Ghadier khum. I will post it again.
On this Event where Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w.) delivered his LAST sermon. 110 companions of Prophet have narrated this tradition.
The Prophet said: "Whoever I am his leader (Mawla), Ali is his leader (Mawla)"
I have already proved you Imamah.
murly67 3 years ago
(1) Tafsir al-Kabir, by Ahmad Ibn Muhammad al-Tha'labi, under Verse 5:55
(2) Tafsir al-Kabir, by Ibn Jarir al-Tabari, v6, pp 186,288-289
(3) Tafsir Jamiul Hukam al-Quran, by Muhammad Ibn Ahmad Qurtubi, v6, p219
(4) Tafsir al-Khazin, v2, p68
(5) Tafsir al-Durr al-Manthoor, by al-Suyuti, v2, pp 293-294
(6) Tafsir al-Kashshaf, by al-Zamakhshari, Egypt 1373, v1, pp 505,649
(7) Asbab al-Nuzool, by Jalaluddin al-Suyuti, Egypt 1382, v1, p73 on the authority of Ibn Abbas
etc..
murly67 3 years ago
Certainly your Master is Allah and His Messenger and those who believe who eshtablish prayer and give charity while they bow (Imam Ali). And who ever takes Allah and His Messenger and those who believe as a guardian, so surely the party of Allah will be victorious. (Quran 5:55-56)
murly67 3 years ago
Brother i would inshallah suggest you to read the articles on al-islam . org
and
al-islam . org /encyclopedia
I got most of my information there. There you can see many Articles and about Sunnis; how they became shia.
wassalam
murly67 3 years ago
Sunni References:
(1) History of al-Tabari, English version, v6, pp 88-91
(2) History of Ibn Athir, v2, p62
(3) History of Ibn Asakir, v1, p85
(4) Tafsir al-Durr al-Manthoor, by al-Hafidh Jalaluddin al-Suyuti, v5, p97
(5) Tafsir al-Khazin, by Ala'uddin al-Shafi'i, v3, p371
(6) Shawahid al-Tanzil, by al-Hasakani, v1, p371
(7) Kanz al-Ummal, by al-Muttaqi al-Hindi, v15, p15, pp 100-117
(8) al-Sirah al-Halabiyah, v1, p311
murly67 3 years ago
I said "I will be your helper, O' prophet of God." He put his hand on the back of my neck and said "This is my brother, my executor (Wasi), my successor(Caliph) among you, so listen to him and obey him." They rose up laughing and saying to Abu Talib, "He has commanded you to obey your son and to obey him!"
murly67 3 years ago
Then he spoke to them, saying, "Banu Abd al-Muttalib, I don't know of any young man among Arabs who has brought for his people something better than what I have brought to you. I bring the best of this world and the world after, since God has commanded me to summon you to him. Which of you will aid me in this matter, so that he will be my brother, my executor (Wasi), my successor (Caliph) among you?" They all held back, and even though I was the youngest,
murly67 3 years ago
I would have cast the rope of Caliphate on its own shoulders, and would have given the last one the same treatment as to the first one. Then you would have seen that in my view this world of yours is no better than the sneezing of a goat.
murly67 3 years ago
Yes, by Allah, they had heard it and understood it but the world appeared glittering in their eyes and its embellishments seduced them. Behold, by Him who split the grain (to grow) and created living beings, if people had not come to me and supporters had not exhausted the argument and if there had been no pledge of Allah with the learned to the effect that they should not acquiesce in the gluttony of the oppressor and the hunger of the oppressed
murly67 3 years ago
That abode in the hereafter, We assign it for those who intend not to exult themselves in the earth, nor (to make) mischief (therein); and the end is (best) for the pious ones. (Qur'an, 28:83)
murly67 3 years ago
yh tht was for the case o9f the other prophets, not after the prophet though. if allah wanted he wud have made ali leader himself. bu he didnt, strange how he didnt init. and no he didnt send jibril to ali to be given leader ship, thts something made up by u, the people who follow the teachings of the fake muslims abdullah bin sabah, if it werent for him, there wudnt be u shias argueing for nothing
Vmax786 3 years ago
Allah made Hazrat Ibrahim (a.s.) an Imam. How much People accepted him? The People even have trowhn him to Fire.
At Ghadier Khum where the Prophet said: "Whoever I am his leader (Mawla), Ali is his leader (Mawla)."
after the speech the last verse came: "Today
"I have perfected your religion and completed my bounty upon you, and I was satisfied that Islam be your religion." (Quran 5:3)
Allah have perfected the religion with Imam Ali as a Imam and Succesor.
murly67 3 years ago
At that moment, nothing took me by surprise, but the crowd of people rushing to me. It advanced towards me from every side like the mane of the hyena so much so that Hasan and Husayn were getting crushed and both the ends of my shoulder garment were torn. They collected around me like the herd of sheep and goats. When I took up the reins of government one party broke away and another turned disobedient while the rest began acting wrongfully as if they had not heard the word of Allah saying:
murly67 3 years ago
One of them turned against me because of his hatred and the other got inclined the other way due to his in-law relationship and this thing and that thing, till the third man of these people stood up with heaving breasts between his dung and fodder. With him his children of his grand-father, (Umayyah) also stood up swallowing up Allah's wealth(5) like a camel devouring the foliage of spring, till his rope broke down, his actions finished him and his gluttony brought him down prostrate.
murly67 3 years ago
Nevertheless, I remained patient despite length of period and stiffness of trial, till when he went his way (of death) he put the matter (of Caliphate) in a group(4) and regarded me to be one of them. But good Heavens! what had I to do with this "consultation"? Where was any doubt about me with regard to the first of them that I was now considered akin to these ones? But I remained low when they were low and flew high when they flew high.
murly67 3 years ago
One in contact with it was like the rider of an unruly camel. If he pulled up its rein the very nostril would be slit, but if he let it loose he would be thrown. Consequently, by Allah people got involved in recklessness, wickedness, unsteadiness and deviation.
murly67 3 years ago
brother i be onest. im not reading all this stuff u say caus it aint getting nowhere. u cannot and hav not proven anythiung to me from allah sayin tht ali should be leader after prophet. now lemme ask u something. if u can prove imamah to me in the quran, i will become shi'ite right now. prove imamah to me
Vmax786 3 years ago
Certainly your Master is Allah and His Messenger and those who believe who eshtablish prayer and give charity while they bow (Imam Ali). And who ever takes Allah and His Messenger and those who believe as a guardian, so surely the party of Allah will be victorious. (Quran 5:55-56)
murly67 3 years ago
the reality is that there are people that believe that God has a son.we will be judged on what we believe.
nowaela 3 years ago
Muhammad s.a.w came with the complete and last message. He told us we will be split into sects like those before us.we need to remember what Allah swt said to Rasulalla that Allah swt is the one that guides. so we need to do dua asking for guidence. if you fulfil the requirements for the acceptance of dua. Allah swt will never turn you away.
nowaela 3 years ago
It is strange that during his lifetime he wished to be released from the caliphate but he confirmed it for the other one after his death. No doubt these two shared its udders strictly among themselves. This one put the Caliphate in a tough enclosure where the utterance was haughty and the touch was rough. Mistakes were in plenty and so also the excuses therefore.
murly67 3 years ago
I watched the plundering of my inheritance till the first one went his way but handed over the Caliphate to Ibn al-Khattab after himself.
(Then he quoted al-A`sha's verse). My days are now passed on the camel's back (in difficulty) while there were days (of ease) when I enjoyed the company of Jabir's brother Hayyan.(3)
murly67 3 years ago
Then I began to think whether I should assault or endure calmly the blinding darkness of tribulations wherein the grown up are made feeble and the young grow old and the true believer acts under strain till he meets Allah (on his death). I found that endurance thereon was wiser. So I adopted patience although there was pricking in the eye and suffocation (of mortification) in the throat.
murly67 3 years ago
Beware! By Allah the son of Abu Quhafah (Abu Bakr)(2) dressed himself with it (the caliphate) and he certainly knew that my position in relation to it was the same as the position of the axis in relation to the hand-mill. The flood water flows down from me and the bird cannot fly upto me. I put a curtain against the caliphate and kept myself detached from it.
murly67 3 years ago
This speech of mine was extempore and was being delivered at the impulse of that moment like the Shiqshiqiyyah (the roar of a camel), it can't be continued." So far as the subject is concerned the sermon is self-explanatory.]
murly67 3 years ago
Sermon 7/3 of Nahjul Balagha Survey of the period after the demise of the Holy Prophet (PBUH&HF)
[This is the famous sermon of Shiqshiqiyyah. It is so named because while Imam Ali was delivering it an Iraqi got up and presented a letter to him. He got busy in reading it. When he had finished the letter Abdullah Ibn Abbas requested him to continue his sermon. The Imam replied, " Ibn Abbas !
murly67 3 years ago
And what do you mean by prevending worshipping? Prophet Muhammad had one daughter. Fatima Zahra...
murly67 3 years ago
In some versions of the Tradition of Ghadir Khum there is an extra sentence
that is he Prophet (PBUH&HF) said: "Wa dara al-haqq ma'ahu haithu dar", literally: "And the truth (the right path) turns with him (i.e. Ali) wherever way he turns."
Sunni reference: Tafsir al-Kabir, by Fakhr al-Din al-Razi, under the commentary of "al-Bismilah"
murly67 3 years ago
Sunni references:
(1) Hilyatul Awliya', by Abu Nu'aym, v1, pp 84,86
(2) al-Mustadrak, by al-Hakim, v3, p128
(3) al-Jamiul Kabir, by al-Tabarani
(4) al-Isabah, by Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani
(5) Kanzul Ummal, v6, p155
(6) al-Manaqib, by al-Khawarizmi, p34
(7) Yanabi' al-Mawaddah, by al-Qunduzi al-Hanafi, p149
(8) History of Ibn Asakir, v2, p95
murly67 3 years ago
"Whoever wishes to live and die like me, and to abide in the Garden of Eden after death, should acknowledge Ali as WALI after me, and take his WALI (i.e., Imams after him) as WALI, and should follow the Imams after me for they are my Ahlul-Bayt and are created from my clay and are gifted with the same knowledge and understanding as myself. Woe unto those who deny their virtues and those who disregard their relationship and affinity with me, for my intercession shall never reach them."
murly67 3 years ago
If MAWLA means friend, then why was Ali (AS) asking the above question?
Was friendship new to Arabs? In fact Imam Ali was asking this question
to reiterate the importance of the word MAWLA and showing that people
at that time did not mean it friend for him, and that what they meant is
master of the believers.
murly67 3 years ago
Ali came to the plain of Rahbah, and some people told him "Peace on you O' our MAWLA!" Ali replied: "How can I be your MAWLA while you are Arabs (free men)?" They said: "We heard the Messenger of Allah (PBUH) on the day of Ghadir Khum who said: `Whoever I was his MAWLA he (Ali) is his MAWLA.'"
Sunni reference: Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v5, p419
murly67 3 years ago
yh ok, now this came from the prophet himself from tirmidhi, clearly showing tht abu bakr was right in being the leader. "if abu bakr is amongst a people, it is wrong for any1 else to lead them. now compare wa u said about mawla to this clear example of how abu bakr had right over any1 else. at the time of khalifah of abu bakr, did ali at any time rebel or say in anyway from his own mouth tht umar and abu bakr are wrong. i wish to see some proof of alis sayin tht abu bakr was wrong.
Vmax786 3 years ago
As i said before, it was part of the Patience not to rebel. there are many sermons in Nhajul Balagha where Imam Ali
unequivocally states his right was usurped from day one of the death of the
Mercy to Mankind, Muhammad (PBUH&HF). below is one example of it:
murly67 3 years ago
If WALI means friend, then why people answered only Allah and His
Messenger are WALI? They should have answered all the believers are WALI.
This clearly shows that people got it right, but they later chose to act
otherwise. Now let us look at the following tradition:
murly67 3 years ago
with a sound chain it is narrated in tabranis al aswat, the messenger of allah said:"verily allah dislikes tht abu bakr be contradicted". given this u can stil com on and say tht ali should hav been this or tht without a direct mention tht ali himself should be leader. u are purposely following wat u want brother, u dont see reality, the fact tht shias will remain in minority and sunnis will always hav upperhand
Vmax786 3 years ago
Prophet (PBUH) asked three times: "O' people! Who is your MAWLA? They replied: Allah and His Messenger." Then he grasped the hand of Ali and raised it and said: "Whoever his WALI is Allah and his Messenger, then this man is his WALI also."
Sunni reference: Khasa'is, by al-Nisa'i, p6
murly67 3 years ago
Ali Ibn Abi Talib was asked about the saying of the Messenger of Allah "Whomever I am his MAWLA then Ali is his MAWLA". He said: "He erected me chief ['alaman]. To the time I am up there, whomever contradicts me then he is lost (misguided in religion)."
Sunni reference: Zain al-Fata, by al-Hafiz al-'Asimi
murly67 3 years ago
Sunni reference: Fara'id al-Samtain, by Hamawaini (Abu Is'haq Ibrahim Ibn Sa'd al-Din Ibn al-Hamawiyia), section 58.
murly67 3 years ago
Other Sunni traditionists narrated that on the day of Saqifah: Umar said: "Ali Ibn Abi Talib, Zubair Ibn Awwam and those who were with them separated from us (and gathered) in the house of Fatimah, the daughter of the messenger of Allah."
Sunni References:
- Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v1, p55
- Sirah al-Nabawiyyah, by Ibn Hisham, v4, p309
- History of Tabari (Arabic), v1, p1822
- History of Tabari, English version, v9, p192
murly67 3 years ago
They demanded confirmation of the oath, but Ali and al-Zubair stayed away. Al-Zubair drew his sword (from the scabbard), saying, "I will not put it back until the oath of allegiance is rendered to Ali." When this news reached Abu Bakr and Umar, the latter said, "Hit him with a stone and seize the sword." It is stated that Umar rushed (to the door of the House of Fatimah) and brought them forcibly while telling that they must give their oath of allegiance willingly or unwillingly.
murly67 3 years ago
My Brother if you think a little. The Prophet said whoever im his leader, Ali is his Leader.
And then the last Quran verse came where Allah said "Today i have completed your Religion."
And then look at the Tragedy of Thursday. Where the Prophet wanted a paper with a pencil. He wanted to write a testament, so that the Ummah will never go wrong way. Why did Umar said "You are ill, the Quran is enough for us."
murly67 3 years ago
and why didnt the prophet directly say ali shud be leader after me, plz explain why them prophets desires as u say, were not expressd. wat u say is true but the prophet only said this becaus before he died he said tht he wished for the ummah to love his family, THTS THE REASON, not becaus he wanted ali to be leader. ali himself said good things about umar and abu bakr with his own mouth, no matter is they walked away, and still, no they wudnt walk away unless they hav a gud reason.
Vmax786 3 years ago
He did, im sorry but read the hadith again. And here are others:
When the Messenger of Allah spoke of (Tradition of Ghadir)..., Salman stood up and said: "O' Messenger of Allah! What does WALAA mean? and how?" Prophet replied: "The same way that I am your WALI (Wala-un ka wala'i). Whomever (considered me) I was more deserving in him than himself, then Ali is more deserving in him than himself."
murly67 3 years ago
Sahih al Bukhari Volume 8, Book 82, Number 817
murly67 3 years ago
So if any person gives the Pledge of allegiance to somebody (to become a Caliph) without consulting the other Muslims, then the one he has selected should not be granted allegiance, lest both of them should be killed."
So he said even if that would be happen again the people should be killed.
murly67 3 years ago
cant u see why allah took away the prophets children from him. to prevent idolizing. imagin how bad it wud hav been if the prophet had children. throughout time its strange how u say this yet sunni muslims hav ALWAYS remained the majority.
Vmax786 3 years ago
Umar added, "By Allah, apart from the great tragedy that had happened to us (i.e. the death of the Prophet), there was no greater problem than the allegiance pledged to Abu Bakr because we were afraid that if we left the people, they might give the Pledge of allegiance after us to one of their men, in which case we would have given them our consent for something against our real wish, or would have opposed them and caused great trouble.
murly67 3 years ago
the pledge of allegiance to Abu Bakr was nothing but a prompt sudden action which got established afterwards.
murly67 3 years ago
Narrated Ibn 'Abbas:
While I was in his house at Mina, and he was with 'Umar bin Al-Khattab during 'Umar's last Hajj, Abdur-Rahman came to me and said, "Would that you had seen the man who came today to the Chief of the Believers ('Umar), saying, 'O Chief of the Believers! What do you think about so-and-so who says, 'If 'Umar should die, I will give the pledge of allegiance to such-and-such person, as by Allah,
murly67 3 years ago
he murly I was in Maroc ,so I couldnt answer you >> I meant there was no other prophet after Muhammed , and Ali was NOT a prophet .
ciao.
achraft 3 years ago
Also Historians say that Fatima Zahra died 6 months after her fathers death. So in 11. Hijra. How can she born a child then in 12. Hijra pr 13. ?
murly67 3 years ago
narated in tirmidhi, messenger of allah saw said: if abu bakr r.a. is amongst a people it ios wrong for anyone else to lead them.
Vmax786 3 years ago
Imam Ali didnt gave her daughter Umm-Khultum to Umar. A Hadith from Imam Sadiq proofs that.
In the Shiite View, Umm Khulthum married the son of Jafar Tayyar.
By the way 4 or 5 Wives of Umar had the name Umm-Khultum.
Sunni Historians say that the Wedding of Umm-Khulthum and Umar was in the 17. Hijra. They also say she was 4 or 5 years old, so she would have born in 12. or 13. Hijra.
Sunni References: (History of Abul Fida, vol I P. 171, Al Farooq von Shibli Numani, vol II P. 539)
murly67 3 years ago
ok, so u say ali should have been wali.
in a mutawatir hadithnarrated by imam ahmad, ali r.a. said
"the best of this ummah after her prophet is abu bakr and umar." this as opposed o ur indirect quotes is direct from the mouth of ali, ye u ha the nerve to sa he shud be leader.
Vmax786 3 years ago
Ok why have Umar said then it was a mistake to choose Abu bakr?
I will only post the part of the Hadith because its very long.
murly67 3 years ago
Ok lets tell me one Hadith from Shia referenes where Ali said something good about Umar and Abu bakr.
And why did Ali said something good about Abu bakr and Umar but separated from them. It´s like i say to you "I like you" but if you try to speak me i go away.
murly67 3 years ago
When Umar came to the door of the house of Fatimah, he said: "By Allah, I shall burn down (the house) over you unless you come out and give the oath of allegiance (to Abu Bakr)."
murly67 3 years ago
Sunni References:
- History of Tabari (Arabic), v1, pp 1118-1120
- History of Ibn Athir, v2, p325
- al-Isti'ab, by Ibn Abd al-Barr, v3, p975
- Tarikh al-Kulafa, by Ibn Qutaybah, v1, p20
- al-Imamah wal-Siyasah, by Ibn Qutaybah, v1, pp 19-20
murly67 3 years ago
Sunni reference: History of al-Tabari, English version, v9, pp 188-189
murly67 3 years ago
They demanded confirmation of the oath, but Ali and al-Zubair stayed away. Al-Zubair drew his sword (from the scabbard), saying, "I will not put it back until the oath of allegiance is rendered to Ali." When this news reached Abu Bakr and Umar, the latter said, "Hit him with a stone and seize the sword." It is stated that Umar rushed (to the door of the House of Fatimah) and brought them forcibly while telling that they must give their oath of allegiance willingly or unwillingly.
murly67 3 years ago
Other Sunni traditionists narrated that on the day of Saqifah: Umar said: "Ali Ibn Abi Talib, Zubair Ibn Awwam and those who were with them separated from us (and gathered) in the house of Fatimah, the daughter of the messenger of Allah."
Sunni References:
- Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v1, p55
- Sirah al-Nabawiyyah, by Ibn Hisham, v4, p309
- History of Tabari (Arabic), v1, p1822
- History of Tabari, English version, v9, p192
murly67 3 years ago
Do you know about Fadak?
Al-Bukhari narrated: Umar said: "And no doubt after the death of the Prophet we were informed that the Ansar disagreed with us and gathered in the shed of Bani Sa'da. 'Ali and Zubair and whoever was with them, opposed us, ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ while the emigrants gathered with Abu Bakr."
Sunni Reference: Sahih al-Bukhari, Arabic-English, v8, Tradition #817
murly67 3 years ago
It is also recorded that: When Ali said to Anas: "Why don't you stand up and testify what you heard from the Messenger of Allah on the day of Ghadir?" He answered, "O Amir al-Mumineen! I have grown old and do not remember." Thereupon Ali said: "May Allah mark you with a white spot (of leprosy; Alphosis) unconcealable with your turban, if you are intentionally withholding the truth."
murly67 3 years ago
And before Anas got up from his place he bore a large white spot on his face, Thereafter Anas used to say, "I am under the curse of the righteous servant of Allah."
murly67 3 years ago
Sunni references:
(1) al-Ma'arif, by Ibn Qutaybah, p14, in the account of Anas among disabled persons.
(2) Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v1, p199, where he testifies to the above anecdote, as he says : "All stood up except three persons who came under the curse of Ali."
(3) Hilyatul Awliya', by Abu Nu'aym, v5, p27
murly67 3 years ago
Notice that "Ukhlufni" and "Khalifa" (Caliph) are exactly from the same
root.
In this connection, let us take a look at the following interesting
tradition in Sahih al-Bukhari: The Messenger of Allah said to Ali: "Your position to me is like the position of Aaron (Haroon) to Moses, except that there shall be no Prophet after me"
murly67 3 years ago
Sunni References:
(1) Sahih al-Bukhari, Arabic-English version, Traditions 5.56, 5.700
(2) Sahih Muslim, Arabic, v4, pp 1870-71
(3) Sunan Ibn Majah, p12
(4) Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v1, p174
(5) al-Khasa'is, by al-Nisa'i, pp 15-16
(6) Mushkil al-Athar, by al-Tahawi, v2, p309
murly67 3 years ago
The Prophet (PBUH&HF) thereby meant that as Moses had left behind Aaron to
look after his people when he went to Miqaat (meeting Allah), in the same
way he was leaving Ali behind to look after the affairs of Islam after he
met Allah (i.e., his death). Let this reminder be food of thought for the
possessors of pure heart and open mind.
murly67 3 years ago
The above verses of Quran concerning Aaron show that even the prophet does
not assign his deputy/successor, and it is rather Allah who does that.
Prophet Moses prayed to Allah and requested that Aaron becomes his deputy,
and Allah approved the suggestion/request of Prophet Moses (AS).
murly67 3 years ago
u have failed to show tht ali sould have been imam as he ddnot himself say tht he should be lade after the prophet and u hav not prve imamah in the quran. therefore u cannot say anithing. i can tell u all i want but ur too brainwashed to giva a damn about anything else
Vmax786 3 years ago
Ok lets imagine Allah say in the Quran: "You have to follow Ali ibn Abi Talib." Do you think the Quran would be safe then?
1. Its only Allah who choose the Imam. So why would Allah let his People choose his Imam (Abu bakr).
2. The Word "Imam" are mentioned 12 times in the Quran. (12 Imam)
3. Allah did choose Adam and Noah, the family of Abraham, and the family of 'Imran above all people,-
So why wouldn´t he choose the Family of Muhammad (Ahlubayt) ?
murly67 3 years ago
Are Allah and His
prophet more qualified to assign the Caliphs, or people? Is Islam on the
basis of democracy (government of people over people) or on the basis of
theocracy (Kingdom of Allah over the earth)? The history of Islam
testifies that the government after the death of prophet was neither
democratic nor theocratic. Just a few people gathered in "Saqifah bani
Saaedah" and assigned Abu Bakr as Caliph while Imam Ali was busy of the
burial of the holy prophet in Medina.
murly67 3 years ago
Is it our choice as to whom should be a Prophet or it is Allah's choice?
Can we select Prophet by Shura? The same goes for assigning the successor
of Prophet, for Allah knows best who is the most qualified for this
position. It seems very strange that a deputy of a chief is assigned by any
person other than him. Deputy of God (or prophet) is only assigned by God
(or prophet), and it is not people's business!
murly67 3 years ago
There are many examples in
Quran where Allah states that He is the one who assigns a successor on the
earth. Allah, Exalted He is, states in Quran: "O' David, we assigned you as Caliph (successor) on the earth ..." (Quran 38:26)
He also states: "... We have assigned you (Abraham) as Imam (leader) for people ..." (Quran 2:124)
murly67 3 years ago
s we see, Caliph/Imam for the mankind is assigned by Allah. See also 2:30
(about Adam). Even Prophet Moses, when he wanted to go to Miqaat, did not
ask people to form a Shura to assign a Caliph for him. Quran tells us that: (Moses said: "O' Allah) assign me a vizier from my family, (that is) my brother Aaron (Haroon) ...," (Allah) said: "We granted your requests, O' Moses." (Quran 20:29-36).
murly67 3 years ago
Allah, Exalted, also said: "Surely We gave the book to Moses and assigned his brother Aaron as his vizier." (Quran 25:35).
Allah also said: "... And Moses said unto his brother Aaron: Take my place among the people." (Quran 7:142).
murly67 3 years ago
alah did not clearly say in the quran tht ali shoulkd be the master and neither did ali the lion of allah u claim he is fight against ppl who said he shudnt be regardles of paience, it had nothing to do with patience. he was given glad tidings to bear patience for rewards, not becaus there wud be chaos. if so, why wud he giv his daughter to umar at the time of his khilafah???
Vmax786 3 years ago
Even in the Quran Allah has appointed Imam Ali as the Wali (Master).
Certainly your Master is Allah and His Messenger and those who believe who eshtablish prayer and give charity while they bow. And who ever takes Allah and His Messenger and those who believe as a guardian, so surely the party of Allah will be victorious. (Quran 5:55-56)
murly67 3 years ago
Many Sunni commentators
of the Quran confirm the fact that the above verse descended on the honor
of Imam Ali (AS) and many Sunni scholars have also mentioned the unanimity
or consensus of opinion in their books. Here are some references in this
regard:
(1) Tafsir al-Kabir, by Ahmad Ibn Muhammad al-Tha'labi, under Verse 5:55
(2) Tafsir al-Kabir, by Ibn Jarir al-Tabari, v6, pp 186,288-289
(3) Tafsir Jamiul Hukam al-Quran, by Muhammad Ibn Ahmad Qurtubi, v6, p219
(4) Tafsir al-Khazin, v2, p68
murly67 3 years ago
(7) Asbab al-Nuzool, by Jalaluddin al-Suyuti, Egypt 1382, v1, p73 on the authority of Ibn Abbas
(8) Asbab al-Nuzool, by al-Wahidi, on the authority of Ibn Abbas
(9) Sharh al-Tjrid, by Allama Qushji
(10) Ahkam al-Quran, al-Jassas, v2, pp 542-543
(11) Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v5, p38
(12) Kanzul Ummal, by al-Muttaqi al-Hindi, v6, p391, Tradition #5991
(13) al-Awsat, by Tabarani, narrated from Ammar Yasir
(14) Ibn Mardawayh, on the authority of Ibn Abbas
... and more.
murly67 3 years ago
Sunni references:
- Majma' al-Zawa'id, by al-Haythami, v8, p314
- Also mentioned by al-Tabarani
murly67 3 years ago
Some other Sunny references in in which the Prophet appointed Ali as the Caliph.
- Tareh-i Tabari, V.1, P.541
- Tareh-i Ibn Asir, V.2, P.62
- Mustadrak-us Sahihain (Hakem Nischaburi), V.3, P.133
- At-Talhis (Mustadrak´in Hamschinda, V.3, P.133
murly67 3 years ago
You can find several Hadithes in which the Prophet himself said that Ali is the Caliph.
Abdullah Ibn Masud narrated: The messenger of Allah (PBUH&HF) ordered me to follow him, on the
night of the Jinn. I went with him until we reached the hight of Macca... (the prophet) said: "I was promised that the Jinn and human will believe in me. As to the human they believed in me, as to the Jinn you have seen"; he continued: "I feel that my end is drawing near."
murly67 3 years ago
I said: O Messenger of Allah, won't you make Abu Bakr as your Caliph? He turned away from me, so I realized that he disagreed; I said: O Messenger of Allah, won't you make Umar as your Caliph? He turned away from me, so I realized that he disagreed; I said: O Messenger of Allah, won't you make Ali as your Caliph? He said: "(That's) him. By the One whom there is no God beside Him, if you chose him and obeyd him He (Allah) entered you into Paradise all together."
murly67 3 years ago
He, Exalted, also said: "Whatever apostle tells you accept it, and from whatever he forbids you, keep back." (Quran 59:7).
murly67 3 years ago
Allah also said:
"Nor does he (prophet) speak out of his desire. (What he says) is nothing but revelation that is revealed." (Quran 53:3-4).
That means also that the what the Prophet said in Ghadier Khum that Ali is the Succesor after the Prophet was a revelation from Allah! Allah wanted Imam Ali as a Succesor.
You can find even a Hadith in which the Prophet said:
"I didnt choosed Ali by myself, it was Allah who choosed him."
murly67 3 years ago
And in you can find several Verses that Proofs, that is only Allah who choose the Imam.
Allāh chose Adam, Nûh (Noah), the family of Ibrāhim (Abraham) and the family of 'Imrān above the 'Alamīn (mankind and jinns) (of their times). (Aali Imran 3:33)
And remember that Abraham was tried by his Lord with certain commands, which he fulfilled: He said: "I will make thee an Imam to the Nations." (02:124)
etc..
murly67 3 years ago
"O you who believe! Do not raise your voices above the voice of prophet ... lest your deeds become null while you do not perceive." (Quran 49:2).
murly67 3 years ago
Sahih al-Bukhari Hadiths: 9.468 and 7.573 Narrated Ibn 'Abbas:
When the time of the death of the Prophet approached while there were some men in the house, and among them was 'Umar Ibn al-Khatttab, the Prophet said: "Come near let me write for you a writing after which you will never go astray." '
murly67 3 years ago
Umar said: "The Prophet is seriously ill, and you have the Quran, so Allah's Book is sufficient for us." The people in the house differed and disputed. Some of them said, "Come near so that Allah's Apostle may write for you a writing after which you will not go astray," while the others said what 'Umar said.
murly67 3 years ago
When they made much noise and quarreled greatly in front of the Prophet, he said to them, "Go away and leave me." Ibn 'Abbas used to say, "It was a great disaster that their quarrel and noise prevented Allah's Apostle from writing a statement for them.
murly67 3 years ago
The other version is given by al-Bukhari and Muslim which indicates the
role of Umar in that catastrophe:
murly67 3 years ago
Do you know The Tragedy of Thursday?
On a Thursday, just three days before the demise of Prophet (PBUH&HF), the
Messenger of Allah asked for pen and paper in order to state his last will
and repeat the declaration/assignment of his successor for his Ummah.
murly67 3 years ago
Major
Sunni sources including Sahih al-Bukhari and Sahih Muslim mentioned that an
opposition group among the companions whose leader was Umar, accused
prophet of talking non sense (May Allah protect us) in order to prevent
this writing. They questioned the rationality of Prophet to discredit the
his will. Below is some of the traditions concerning this tragic episode:
murly67 3 years ago
It is narrated in Sahih Muslim that: Ibn Abbas said: "Thursday! And how tragic that Thursday was!" Then Ibn Abbas cried severely so that his tears flowed to his cheeks. Then he added Prophet said: "Bring me a flat bone or a sheet and an ink so that I could write (order to write) a statement that will prevent you people to go astray after me." They said: "Verily the messenger of Allah is talking no sense."
murly67 3 years ago
Reference: Sahih Muslim, Chapter of "Kitabul-Wasiyyah" in section "Babut-
Tarkil-Wasiyyah", 1980 Edition, Arabic version (Saudi Arabia), v3,
P1259, Tradition (#1637/21).
murly67 3 years ago
Maybe , but Allah has chosen Muhammed p.b.u.h
as the last prophet of Islam..
(Even the Prophet Isa(Jesus) told the people about Allah sending the last Prophet and that his name will be Ahmed...
Bro , salam indeed, but I read the Quran..
achraft 3 years ago
Salam,
Yes Brother. Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w.) is the last Prophet in Islam. That´s true with Isa.
May Allah forgive our sins and make us better muslims inshallah.
wassalam
murly67 3 years ago
it does not say in the quran however, that ali shud have been the successor of the prophet. if it does, u tell me where. please. i wud love to know
Vmax786 3 years ago
Salam,
@achraft
i think i had misunderstood you. You said "How can the angel make mistake and go to Ali (as.) instead of Muhammad (saw.). I think you mean that Ali (as.) is a Prophet? Where is that Lie coming from? There are NO Prophets after Muhammad (saw.) in Islam. Prophet Muhammad (saw.) is the LAST Prophet.
And Ali (as.) was Sahabi.
murly67 3 years ago
Very Beautiful recitation. I wish the Full Video would exist.
murly67 3 years ago
and the prophet may have said all this about ali. no doubt ali was a great man. he was saifullah but abu bakr was closer to muhammad. he led the prayers after the prophet and every1 came to him after he prophets death saws so yes they were rightly chosen
Vmax786 3 years ago
ok now look at the chain of events. the prophet said whosever i am his mawla and al tht right. did he say tht ali should be the leader after him, specifically? and at the time of choosing the first khalifah brotha explain why ali didnt stand up and stop the choosing or rebel, after all we all accept him as the lion of allah and this lion of allah would do anything to be in charge if thts what was wanted at tht time. u shud undastand tyht ali did not himself declare this
Vmax786 3 years ago
Salam,
Mawla means master and guardian. Because the Prophet said to him (before his death) that he should have patience (the Prophet asked Ali if he would have patience if these things happen) Ali replied yes. The Prophet said that if he would have no Patience, then there would be no Islam today. ( I can post the Hadith if u want ) Of course he could have defendend his right but then bye bye Islam...
murly67 3 years ago
salam
did the prophet clearly himself say with his own mouth anything in accordance with the following. "ali should be master after me", had he said this, ther wud be no discusion and ali wud hav had control. the prophet gave him glad tidings by telling him to bear patience and seein as the prophet didnt himself declare ali shud be next in leadership, everything went fine. post me one hadith wher ali said himself he shud be after the prophet leader.
Vmax786 3 years ago
Yes too bad there is such thing as Shia and Sunni.But then I think how can a angel(send by God)make a mistake and went to Mohammed s.w.t in place of Ali.You are speaking of a angel(Jibriel)making a mistake?Sorry but then I think shia's must really think again about what they are doing because they made a great mistake about the REAL religion of ISLAM But,as you worship ALLAH I could only say :Selam and may Allah forgive those who believe anyting else then that ALlah want the mankind to believe.
achraft 3 years ago
Salam
What are you talking about? It was a command by Allah, Allah wanted Ali as a Succesor and Imam for the Ummah.
Its only Allah who choose the Imam, Just the read the Quran.
wassalam
murly67 3 years ago
no mate sori thts not tru. ali himself never said anything at the choosing of abu bakr being khalifah. if he was the lion of allah u say, then he surely wud have said something. sunnis follow the truth. imagine how chaotic it wud have got if the prophet muhammad had children. thats the reason allah took them away from him. to prevent idolizing and worshipping him which the prophet never taught. THINK ABOUT IT BROTHER. dont be arrogant and follow ur ways becaus u want to. look for the truth
Vmax786 3 years ago
Salam,
First of all, i think i had misunderstood you. You said "How can the angel make mistake and go to Ali (as.) instead of Muhammad (saw.). I think you mean that Ali (as.) is a Prophet? Where is that Lie coming from? There are NO Prophets after Muhammad (saw.) in Islam. Prophet Muhammad (saw.) is the LAST Prophet.
And Ali (as.) was Sahabi.
murly67 3 years ago
salam. no way do i say ali was a prophet. wat i am sayin is tht all the khulafa were rightly chosen and couldnt have been chosen better or any other way
Vmax786 3 years ago
Sorry i wanted to reply achraft. :) My Answer is coming now...
murly67 3 years ago
Salam,
Do you know about Ghadier Khum?
On the 18th of Dhul-Hajjah, after completing his last pilgrimage (Hajjatul-
Widaa), Prophet was leaving Mecca toward Medina, where he and the crowd of
people reached to a place called Ghadir Khum (which is close to today's
Juhfah). It was a place where people from different provinces should say
Good bye to each other and take different routes for their home. In this
place, the following verse was revealed:
murly67 3 years ago
"O Apostle! Deliver what has been sent down to you from your Lord; and if you don't do it, you have not delivered His message (at all); and Allah will protect you from the people ..." (Quran 5:67).
murly67 3 years ago
Some of Sunni references confirming that the revelation of the above verse of Quran was right before the speech of Prophet in Ghadir Khum:
(1) Tafsir al-Kabir, by Fakhr al-Razi, under commentary of verse 5:67, v12, pp 49-50, narrated on the authorities of Ibn Abbas, al-Bara Ibn Azib, and Muhammad Ibn Ali.
(2) Asbab al-Nuzool, by al-Wahidi, p50, narrated on the authorities of Atiyyah and Abu Sa'id al Khudri.
murly67 3 years ago
(3) Nuzul al-Quran, by al-Hafiz Abu Nu'aym narrated on the authorities Abu Sa'id Khudri and Abu Rafi.
(4) al-Fusool al Muhimmah, by Ibn Sabbagh al-Maliki al-Makki, p24
(5) Durr al-Manthur, by al-Hafiz al-Suyuti, under commentary of verse 5:67
(6) Fathul Qadir, by al-Shawkani, under commentary of verse 5:67
etc...
murly67 3 years ago
The Messenger of Allah declared: "It seems the time approached when I shall be called away (by Allah) and I shall answer that call. I am leaving for you two precious things and if you adhere both of them, you will never go astray after me. They are the Book of Allah and my progeny, that is my Ahlul-Bayt. The two shall never separate from each other until they come to me by the Pool (of Paradise)."
murly67 3 years ago
Then the Messenger of Allah continued: "Do I not have more right over the believers than what they have over themselves?" People cried and answered: "Yes, O' Messenger of God." Then Prophet (PBUH) held up the hand of Ali and said: "Whoever I am his leader (Mawla), Ali is his leader (Mawla). O' God, love those who love him, and be hostile those who are hostile to him."
murly67 3 years ago
Some of the Sunni references:
(1) Sahih Tirmidhi, v2, p298, v5, p63
(2) Sunan Ibn Maja, v1, pp 12,43
(3) Khasa'is, by al-Nisa'i, pp 4,21
(4) al-Mustadrak, by al-Hakim, v2, p129, v3, pp 109-110,116,371
(5) Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v1, pp 84,118,119,152,330, v4, pp 281,368,370, 372,378, v5, pp 35,347,358,361,366,419 (from 40 chains of narrators)
murly67 3 years ago
(6) Fada'il al-Sahaba, by Ahmad Hanbal, v2, pp 563,572
(7) Majma' al-Zawa'id, by al-Haythami, v9, p103 (from several transmitters)
(8) Tafsir al-Kabir, by Fakhr al-Razi, v12, pp 49-50
(9) Tafsir al-Durr al-Manthur, by al-Hafiz Jalaluddin al-Suyuti, v3, p19
(10) Tarikh al-Khulafa, by al-Suyuti, pp 169,173
(11) al-Bidayah wal-Nihayah, by Ibn Kathir, v3, p213, v5, p208
(12) Usdul Ghabah, by Ibn Athir, v4, p114
(13) Mushkil al-Athar, by al-Tahawi, v2, pp 307-308
murly67 3 years ago
(14) Habib al-Siyar, by Mir Khand, v1, part 3, p144
(15) Sawaiq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar al-Haythami, p26
(16) al-Isabah, by Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani, v2, p509; v1, part1, p319, v2, part1, p57, v3, part1, p29, v4, part 1, pp 14,16,143
(17) Tabarani, who narrated from companions such as Ibn Umar, Malik Ibn al-Hawirath, Habashi Ibn Junadah, Jari, Sa'd Ibn Abi Waqqas, Anas Ibn Malik, Ibn Abbas, Amarah,Buraydah,...
(18) Tarikh, by al-Khatib Baghdadi, v8, p290
etc...
murly67 3 years ago
Immediately after the Prophet (PBUH&HF) finished his speech, the following
verse of Holy Quran was revealed: "Today I have perfected your religion and completed my bounty upon you, and I was satisfied that Islam be your religion." (Quran 5:3)
murly67 3 years ago
So that means with Imam Ali, the Religion has been perfected and completed, so Imam Ali is the Part of the Religion.
murly67 3 years ago
get me one hadith with which ali himself said after he became khalifah tht he shud hav been leader before, becaus after al, he ws in control, he clearly wud hav said something. the reality is tht he didnt say any of what u wanted him to say and even with wat i am tellin u u stil dont accept the 4 khalifahs. abu bakr was one of the main converts hu understood the prophet. hu took ova the salah after the prophets death. plz tel me?? this person had more right
Vmax786 3 years ago
About the Battle of Camel, al-Hakim and Ahmad Ibn Hanbal and others
recorded that:
We were in the camp of Ali on the day of Battle of Camel, where Ali sent for Talha to talk to him (before the beginning of war). Talha came forward, and Ali told him:
murly67 3 years ago
I adjure you by Allah! Didn't you hear the Messenger of Allah (PBUH&HF) when he said: `Whoever I am his MAWLA, this Ali is his MAWLA. O God, love whoever loves him, and be hostile to whoever is hostile to him'?" Talha replied: "Yes." Ali said: "Then why do you want to fight me?"
murly67 3 years ago
Sunni reference:
- al-Mustadrak, by al-Hakim, v3, pp 169,371
- Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, on the authority of Ilyas al-Dhabbi
- Muruj al-Dhahab, by al-Mas'udi, v4, p321
- Majma' al-Zawa'id, by al-Haythami, v9, p107
murly67 3 years ago
ok so did ali take action against these people becaus like i said before, he was lion of allah not afraid to die in sake of islam. if this was the case, he wud hav died tryin to become leader. i agree he said this but this doesnt exactly mean he wanted to become leader. exactly battle of camel. wat if he wanted to be leadr of the battle who took charge of the army, tht cud hav been a possibility
Vmax786 3 years ago
The Prophet asked him: Will you have Patience if they take away your right? And at the end of the hadith he says that it is your duty to be Patient.
Remember the Quran aya in which allah says "Nor does he (prophet) speak out of his desire. (What he says) is nothing but revelation that is revealed." (Quran 53:3-4).
So it was a command by Allah that Imam Ali must have Patience.
The Prophet said also will you have patience if they dont give khums and beat your wive?
murly67 3 years ago