There is no such thing as a "free market". We have reverse socialism on this planet: big gov't giving free property and tax-breaks only to the least deserving and biggest corporations, and big armies and police forces defending wealth inequities. Avory Lovin's energy ideas will work only when implemented by force. Same is true of true socialism. Whether his ideas "make money" in the market place is irrelevant to whether they "work". ALL corporations "work" only by gov't-backed-up force.
I would be digging the self-driving car thing as well.
There are a lot of people our there who hate Lovins.
I say, if he's a crackpot or a self-promoting scam-artist then he will be found out. In the menatime there are peole who want to sgut him up. I wonder who would want him silenced and why?
I'm one of those guys who hate Lovins. He's a fraud and I know because I'm an engineer who has worked in the energy area for a long time. Lovins is a con man. He pulls the wool over the eyes of the technical & scientific illerate. He talks like he knows what he is talking about but HE DOES NOT. The press will not pressure on him because they are just as technically illerate also. Wind and Solar cannot solve our energy problems and our reliance on them will turn us into a third world country.
No it won't come out in the wash because the news media (MSM) is technically illerate. Electric Cars WILL NOT work for 90% of drivers. Will NOT work in HOT/COLD climates. AC will rapidly drain battery as will Heater. I know people who have had EV's and they suck. That's why the EV1 was tested in So. Cal where climate is mild. Batteries lose efficiency in cold weather. Why do you think ICE cars are more difficult to start in cold climates? Chevy Volt has solved these problems. Learn something.
It WILL come out in the wash. If he's a crackpot then his ideas will not work and his company will not make money. That's how the free market works. But if he has even ONE good idea that may help someone else make a leap than that's a good thing. Why are poeple trying to shut him down?
BTW, I am also on the unoffical waiting list for a volt so don't try to pretend you are the only one who knows what the deal is. I also have friends with EV's and they work great.
So if the Chevy Volt has these problems solved and Amory lovins is just saying that we need to invest in these technologies and Chevy just did that, the HOW IS AMORY WRONG? ALL we need to do it put our money and attention behind these technologies and we'll figure it all out! Can you doubt that? Most of these problems are solved, they are just waiting for investors. Investors don't invest when they can't make money and they can't make money until we stop subsidizing the fossil fuel industry!
Electric cars would work for most people given the number of miles they drive daily.
Hybrid cars would work for the rest of them.
When enough people are driving EV's and Plug-in Hybrids the economy of scale will kick in and hey will become cheaper and better.
Somebody in their garage will discover a way to improve the battery capacity and/or the motr efficiency while improving the acceleration and cold-weather capability.
Not against it, I just see it slightly differently. What I really want from a car is the transportation-convenience service. If there were self driving cars that I could call on my cell phone to take me from A to B that could be even more convenient. Which piece of that technology doesn't exist today?
The new plug in hybrids will make a difference in the future-starting in 5 or more years. All electric cars are not practical because there's this thing called range anxiety. You are always wondering if you can make it home. The electric car can work if it's a second or third car that's used for short commutes or drives around the neighborhood. The Chevy Volt and the new cars from Chysler will solve the range anxiety problem. They will be expensive at first but will come down. It will take time.
There are no commerically available plug in hybrids on the market. None that aren't after market mods. You void the warranty on an after market conversion. The Volt will be available in 2010. I follow the website daily so I know this. Google Volt and follow. I'm on the waiting list (unofficial). EV's suck. I know people who have had them. Besides in CA where I live we generate 45% of electricity with nat gas. Might as well use nat gas directly.
You said it all, there didn't you..."If you have God you dont need science. If you can believe you dont need to think. If you can trust you dont have to prove."
Can you please tell us how energy independence promotes homosexuality, abortion, and satanism or were you just not thinking when you posted that?
This is more liberal junk science and it's funds the Goldless agenda of homosex, art, abortion, satanism, veganism and environmentalism. If you have God you dont need science. If you can believe you dont need to think. If you can trust you dont have to prove.
Wow. You actually believe that God gave us brains to sit around and NOT use them? Destroying the world that was put here for us using poisons and toxins for energy is the work of satan! God's desire for us to grow beyond that to where the sun's own rays and the flowing of air and water becomes our energy is the true goal. I'm sorry that you have been blinded by satan. I'll pray for you.
Didn't the French just dump some nuclear material in their water by accident in one of their big tourist areas? Nuclear is just too problematic, Chernobal and three mile island, and our own government might to to war over Iran's nuclear power/weapon program. Please see Solar is the Solution at Mother Earth News. According to Lovins wind and solar are growing fast. T. Boone Pickens is putting his gazillions into wind and he ain't nobody's fool.
They sure did! And even if an occasional accident didn't eventually happen, when they work perfectly toxic waste comes out the other end of them! So, anyone who knows what to do with this waste (that will be piling up faster than we know what to do with it), please cast your vote for Nuclear! If you are the one person who has solved this problem, then you should be the person who can tell others that they have to have it in their back yards! Otherwise, vote for clean renewables!!!
Amory Lovins is a complete fraud. He is an arrogant bastard who cannot understand the economics of energy. The house that he lives in costs many millions of dollars and is vasty out of the range of the average U.S. citizen. Solar Power only works because the government is subsidizing it. Notice Lovins never goes on any shows where he has to debate with someone who knows what he is talking about. What kind of a car does Lovins drive? How is he going to power his car with solar?
Actually, just about everything he uses is off the shelf tech that is available today. If you read any of the engineering studies, you will realize that the most important aspect of his message is systems thinking and multiple uses for every component. Most people don't understand this.
Rubbish just because the items he uses are "off the shelf" doesn't mean they aren't outrageously expensive. Why not reference some of these so called engineering studies. I'm an engineer and work in the energy area and I can say this guy is full of it. He is wrong on just about everything he says.
Now as far as oil and solar and wind are concerned. Most oil is used for transportation. Wind and Solar do next to nothing for transportation fuels. Very little oil is used to generate electricity.
We've had since the '70's for engineers working in the energy area to come up with solutions and all we got are Hummers. We had electric cars in the '90's but Bush and GM screwed us. Guys like Lovins and Pickens are offering us solutions, if we have time. I'm a geologist, and we are running out of time. If these guys can't help us, then we had better hope the folks at community solutions have ideas that work. Please be kind enough to direct me to where I can find your work in this area.
There is so much wrong with your post I don't know where to start. Yes I'm an electrical engineer and work in Silicon Valley. The solutions to our energy problem have been known for some time. First we need an ambitious program for nuclear power. We must build at least 200 new plants in next 20 years. We need to stop using natural gas to generate electricity. Use natural gas for transportation fuel. Use Synthetics for liquid fuels for cars planes etc. Solar is okay but no subsidies! No ethanol!
Thank you for taking the time to respond; now we can have a discussion. I wrote several things so I don't know which you think are wrong. US oil production peaked around 1970. I believe that fact is beyond dispute. Please see M. King Hubbard on youtube. There were electric cars in CA in the '90's. Please see Who Killed the Electric Car on youtube. Mr. Pickens has placed a huge order for windmills. Please see pickensplandotcom. The ones online are already causing congestion.
I'll be brief. The EV1 was not practical. It was only a 2-seater. It was all electric and had limited range. It would only work in certain climates. It would not pass safety tests. The U.S. Gov WOULD NOT let GM put into production. The 800 or so they leased in So. CA were experimental only. GM would have to charge 80K each to break even. The Battery Technology wasn't ready in 1990's. The Batteries they were using were not going to last long. It was not the time, now is the time with the Volt.
Please state were I can go to find the information you provided. The movie was possibly one sided, though GM has a terrible track record, and I don't believe anything they say. I do want to see both sides of the issue. As to battery technology, the people at CA Edison told me on the phone that the RAV4EV batteries will outlast the car.
If big government hadn't trashed EVs in the 1920s and earlier, and had invested in an infrastructure that supports it (solar plants, wind, etc) and been given the billions in subsidies that oil, coal & nuclear get, then you (and I) would have jobs right now in the green field and you'd be singing a different tune, because your job would depend on it.
Solar should be massively subsidized. Nuclear should be outlawed.
We didn't have big government back in the 1920's. EVs weren't feasible because the battery technology wasn't there. Thomas Edison tried but finally concluded it wasn't feasible. Green Energy is a joke and not feasible. The Sun only has 6 good hours on the best day. Besides how would you power a solar airplane? The Wind doesn't blow all the time. Sometimes you can have days without sun or wind. What do you do then? Go without power? You really don't know very much about energy do you?
@juscurious They're called batteries, to store the power from the sun & wind. Maybe in the 1920s we didn't have such batteries, but we've got them now.
Mr. Lovins is neither arrogant nor a bastard. I've been to his house. It is a real house and not a fraud. It's open to anyone to come in and study, which I've done. I doubt if it cost many millions when it was built in the 1980's. I'm building a passive solar home myself and don't much money. I know people off the grid, with less money than me; wind and solar work well for them without government interference. The defense department does not think him a fraud. He is doing great work.
Ok smartass how do you power a car with solar? Can you hook up your car to a windmill? What do you do for power at night or for that time when you might not see the sun for a few days? What about our airlines? Are you going to suggest we power a 767 with solar power? Think about it. Solar and wind together will never account for more than just a few % of our energy needs. It's a foolish pipe dream for people who do not understand the technical aspects of energy. Lovins is an opportunist.
I'm not trying to be a smartass, just have a reasonable discussion. How do you hook your car up to a nuclear plant, windmill, coal plant, or PV's? If it is electric or plug in hybred, just plug it in. I was flying jets until 9/11 so I know something about that industry, and the airlines should be parked unless Lovins ideas on blended wing/body are correct. I prefer electric trains. As far as nuclear go, he claims that the investment capital people are not investing in nuclear.
You missed the point about Nuclear Power. If we substitute the natural gas we are using in power plants with nuclear we free up a fantasitc amount of natural gas. This natural gas can be used directly as a transportation fuel or converted to synthetic gas, diesel, or jet fuel. The first jet aircraft were propelled from fuel from systhetic gas in 1945. I hope the volt works. If it does I will buy one. But we need more oil for transportation and must drill in short term to keep econdmy going.
You bring up so many good points but the 500 character limit is killing me. Pickens is trying to free up natural gas too but with windmills. However, according to rgecdotcom the grid is congested with electricty from windmills already. What to do?
Have you read, Forget Nuclear, by Lovins? It can be found on rmidotorg. He claims that investment capitalists are not investing in nuclear. He states that in 2007 micropower got over $70 billion and nuc got 0. Do you know if this is correct?
Nuclear power is not economical? What about the 104 plants currently running in U.S. providing 20% of electricity. The problem with nuclear power is not technical but political and legal. Every time a plant is proposed out come the scum of the earth lawyers who funnel the lawsuits to their favorite judges. The judges issue injunctions thereby delaying the projects, causing uncertainities and driving up costs and killing the projects. Look to France, they get over 80% elect power from Nuclear.
Yes there are certainly many road blocks. However, my understanding is that 253 plants were originally ordered. Only 132 were built, but 21% were shut down prematurely because of reliability or cost problems. Warren Buffet recently abandoned an nuc plant claiming that it didn't make economic sense.
I don't know, I'm no investment capatilist. I'm just telling you what I've read. If you have any information to the contrary, please point me to where I can find it.
Exactly what oil/nuke company do you work for juscurious? Every thing you are saying here is completely bogus. So is the pentagon wasting its time working with Amory? Everyone reading this, please just do some serious research. Amory Lovins is a wonderful human being and deserves international recognition for his energy and efficiency research. And yes, you can run your car off of solar and wind, just not the way you are thinking. Research that!
I don't work for any oil/nuke company but I would gladly work for either if the job were within my qualifications. I'm an electrical engineer working in Semiconductor Area. However I understand Power/Energy very well. I use to work for a Power Company years ago. This is something Lovins has NEVER done. Go ahead and do some serious research and you will find that Lovins is a quack. Tell me definitively what has Lovins accomplished? Tell me how solar and wind will work for transportation fuels.
How about using solar electricity to run an electric car. How about charge that electric car using solar thermal energy and molten salt to run a steam turbine generator that charges your electric car. How about Honda's personal Solar Hydrogen generation system that you can use to turn water into fuel for your hydrogen car. Solar makes this last program clean and efficient and cost pennies compared to traditional hydrogen generators. Amory is not a quack. What are YOU doing to help?
I've already stated the limitations of all electric cars. It's a commute car only in mild climates. I'm hoping the Volt will be a PRACTICAL electric car. The problem is that electric cars need to be charged-just like your cell phone. The charging will be done OVERNIGHT and will take about 6 hours. The last time I checked there is NO SOLAR POWER available OVERNIGHT. Aa far as hydrogen is concerned where are you going get the hydrogen? The amount of energy to get hydrogen is enormous.
So what you are saying is that the HUGE number of people that can use electric cars shouldn't because they'd have to rent a gas car to go on a long trip. Despite the fact that they'd cut their oil use to 0% during 99% of the year? It's also obvious that you haven't done the first bit of study on the two solar to car energy programs I've listed. You are merely trying to babble louder and show your immense ignorance!
Whaaat2008, how's that EV working out for you? Maybe you should just throw it away since other people who live in cold climates can't use them. Just curious obviously knows what he's talking about so I should forget about converting a car to electric. It will never work because an electrical engineer said you can't power a car with solar or wind power. I guess the batteries can somehow tell where the electricity comes from, huh?
Justcurious has an ax to grind and propganda to spread!
Well, just like everybody thinks that they are a climate "expert", even though they have not worked in the field of climatology as the scientists who have published peer-reviewed research for the IPCC & NASA have, then Lovins has the right to be equally respected on the subject of energy & transportation even though he hasn't had a job in the field.
Having a job in a field proves nothing about what COULD be.
Ummm, let's see....How do you power a car with solar? Well, I am not an electriacl enginner but....Wait! I know...you plug it in! You get an EV or a plug in hybrid and you plug it in the electrical outlet!
You could do it with wind or nuke power too. The batteries do not care how the electricity is made. Most folks only drive their cars a few miles every day. Cloudy day? Pull juice off the grid!
There is no such thing as a "free market". We have reverse socialism on this planet: big gov't giving free property and tax-breaks only to the least deserving and biggest corporations, and big armies and police forces defending wealth inequities. Avory Lovin's energy ideas will work only when implemented by force. Same is true of true socialism. Whether his ideas "make money" in the market place is irrelevant to whether they "work". ALL corporations "work" only by gov't-backed-up force.
duck24x 2 years ago
I would be digging the self-driving car thing as well.
There are a lot of people our there who hate Lovins.
I say, if he's a crackpot or a self-promoting scam-artist then he will be found out. In the menatime there are peole who want to sgut him up. I wonder who would want him silenced and why?
cxpage 3 years ago
I'm one of those guys who hate Lovins. He's a fraud and I know because I'm an engineer who has worked in the energy area for a long time. Lovins is a con man. He pulls the wool over the eyes of the technical & scientific illerate. He talks like he knows what he is talking about but HE DOES NOT. The press will not pressure on him because they are just as technically illerate also. Wind and Solar cannot solve our energy problems and our reliance on them will turn us into a third world country.
juscurious 3 years ago
If he is a fraud then it will all come out in the wash. Nobody is saying we should immediately do everything he says without questioning it.
At lease some of his ideas are sound, like reducing weight of vehicles, etc.
I say, our reliance on fossil fuels will also turn us into a third world country.
Electic cars would not work for everybody, only about the 90% of drivers who use their cars to drive to and from work.
cxpage 3 years ago
No it won't come out in the wash because the news media (MSM) is technically illerate. Electric Cars WILL NOT work for 90% of drivers. Will NOT work in HOT/COLD climates. AC will rapidly drain battery as will Heater. I know people who have had EV's and they suck. That's why the EV1 was tested in So. Cal where climate is mild. Batteries lose efficiency in cold weather. Why do you think ICE cars are more difficult to start in cold climates? Chevy Volt has solved these problems. Learn something.
juscurious 3 years ago
It WILL come out in the wash. If he's a crackpot then his ideas will not work and his company will not make money. That's how the free market works. But if he has even ONE good idea that may help someone else make a leap than that's a good thing. Why are poeple trying to shut him down?
BTW, I am also on the unoffical waiting list for a volt so don't try to pretend you are the only one who knows what the deal is. I also have friends with EV's and they work great.
cxpage 3 years ago
So if the Chevy Volt has these problems solved and Amory lovins is just saying that we need to invest in these technologies and Chevy just did that, the HOW IS AMORY WRONG? ALL we need to do it put our money and attention behind these technologies and we'll figure it all out! Can you doubt that? Most of these problems are solved, they are just waiting for investors. Investors don't invest when they can't make money and they can't make money until we stop subsidizing the fossil fuel industry!
Whaaat2008 3 years ago
Electric cars would work for most people given the number of miles they drive daily.
Hybrid cars would work for the rest of them.
When enough people are driving EV's and Plug-in Hybrids the economy of scale will kick in and hey will become cheaper and better.
Somebody in their garage will discover a way to improve the battery capacity and/or the motr efficiency while improving the acceleration and cold-weather capability.
How can anyone be against this?
cxpage 3 years ago
Not against it, I just see it slightly differently. What I really want from a car is the transportation-convenience service. If there were self driving cars that I could call on my cell phone to take me from A to B that could be even more convenient. Which piece of that technology doesn't exist today?
commandersprocket 3 years ago
The new plug in hybrids will make a difference in the future-starting in 5 or more years. All electric cars are not practical because there's this thing called range anxiety. You are always wondering if you can make it home. The electric car can work if it's a second or third car that's used for short commutes or drives around the neighborhood. The Chevy Volt and the new cars from Chysler will solve the range anxiety problem. They will be expensive at first but will come down. It will take time.
juscurious 3 years ago
They could make a difference TODAY. Plug-in hybrids and EV's are available right now!
You could be driving one this afternoon if you chose to. You don't need Lovns to do it, either. You can just go buy an EV.
You can also convert a Prius into a plug-in.
If enough people made this choice our use of fossil fuels would decrease.
Yes, they're expensive but don't assume that will always be so. Once computers were expensive and not a single house in the world had one.
cxpage 3 years ago
Only have 500 char so I'll be brief;
There are no commerically available plug in hybrids on the market. None that aren't after market mods. You void the warranty on an after market conversion. The Volt will be available in 2010. I follow the website daily so I know this. Google Volt and follow. I'm on the waiting list (unofficial). EV's suck. I know people who have had them. Besides in CA where I live we generate 45% of electricity with nat gas. Might as well use nat gas directly.
juscurious 3 years ago
You said it all, there didn't you..."If you have God you dont need science. If you can believe you dont need to think. If you can trust you dont have to prove."
Can you please tell us how energy independence promotes homosexuality, abortion, and satanism or were you just not thinking when you posted that?
cxpage 3 years ago
This is more liberal junk science and it's funds the Goldless agenda of homosex, art, abortion, satanism, veganism and environmentalism. If you have God you dont need science. If you can believe you dont need to think. If you can trust you dont have to prove.
LatteLiberal 3 years ago
Wow. You actually believe that God gave us brains to sit around and NOT use them? Destroying the world that was put here for us using poisons and toxins for energy is the work of satan! God's desire for us to grow beyond that to where the sun's own rays and the flowing of air and water becomes our energy is the true goal. I'm sorry that you have been blinded by satan. I'll pray for you.
Whaaat2008 3 years ago
Didn't the French just dump some nuclear material in their water by accident in one of their big tourist areas? Nuclear is just too problematic, Chernobal and three mile island, and our own government might to to war over Iran's nuclear power/weapon program. Please see Solar is the Solution at Mother Earth News. According to Lovins wind and solar are growing fast. T. Boone Pickens is putting his gazillions into wind and he ain't nobody's fool.
FreesWorld 3 years ago
They sure did! And even if an occasional accident didn't eventually happen, when they work perfectly toxic waste comes out the other end of them! So, anyone who knows what to do with this waste (that will be piling up faster than we know what to do with it), please cast your vote for Nuclear! If you are the one person who has solved this problem, then you should be the person who can tell others that they have to have it in their back yards! Otherwise, vote for clean renewables!!!
Whaaat2008 3 years ago
He is talking about a real problem - the energy crisis that we have ignored since the 70's.
It doesn't matter that solar is too expensive today, oil will grow very expensive later as we can no longer supply the demand. Your argument is moot.
Prices for solar energy will go down as technology becomes more efficient, and by ramping up production. Right now wind is more economical.
He will likely have a plug-in hybrid once they get really good in 2010. The Chevrolet Volt likes nice for example.
bdist 3 years ago 2
Amory Lovins is a complete fraud. He is an arrogant bastard who cannot understand the economics of energy. The house that he lives in costs many millions of dollars and is vasty out of the range of the average U.S. citizen. Solar Power only works because the government is subsidizing it. Notice Lovins never goes on any shows where he has to debate with someone who knows what he is talking about. What kind of a car does Lovins drive? How is he going to power his car with solar?
juscurious 3 years ago
Actually, just about everything he uses is off the shelf tech that is available today. If you read any of the engineering studies, you will realize that the most important aspect of his message is systems thinking and multiple uses for every component. Most people don't understand this.
Just
ed4wb 3 years ago
Rubbish just because the items he uses are "off the shelf" doesn't mean they aren't outrageously expensive. Why not reference some of these so called engineering studies. I'm an engineer and work in the energy area and I can say this guy is full of it. He is wrong on just about everything he says.
Now as far as oil and solar and wind are concerned. Most oil is used for transportation. Wind and Solar do next to nothing for transportation fuels. Very little oil is used to generate electricity.
juscurious 3 years ago
We've had since the '70's for engineers working in the energy area to come up with solutions and all we got are Hummers. We had electric cars in the '90's but Bush and GM screwed us. Guys like Lovins and Pickens are offering us solutions, if we have time. I'm a geologist, and we are running out of time. If these guys can't help us, then we had better hope the folks at community solutions have ideas that work. Please be kind enough to direct me to where I can find your work in this area.
FreesWorld 3 years ago
There is so much wrong with your post I don't know where to start. Yes I'm an electrical engineer and work in Silicon Valley. The solutions to our energy problem have been known for some time. First we need an ambitious program for nuclear power. We must build at least 200 new plants in next 20 years. We need to stop using natural gas to generate electricity. Use natural gas for transportation fuel. Use Synthetics for liquid fuels for cars planes etc. Solar is okay but no subsidies! No ethanol!
juscurious 3 years ago
Thank you for taking the time to respond; now we can have a discussion. I wrote several things so I don't know which you think are wrong. US oil production peaked around 1970. I believe that fact is beyond dispute. Please see M. King Hubbard on youtube. There were electric cars in CA in the '90's. Please see Who Killed the Electric Car on youtube. Mr. Pickens has placed a huge order for windmills. Please see pickensplandotcom. The ones online are already causing congestion.
FreesWorld 3 years ago
I'll be brief. The EV1 was not practical. It was only a 2-seater. It was all electric and had limited range. It would only work in certain climates. It would not pass safety tests. The U.S. Gov WOULD NOT let GM put into production. The 800 or so they leased in So. CA were experimental only. GM would have to charge 80K each to break even. The Battery Technology wasn't ready in 1990's. The Batteries they were using were not going to last long. It was not the time, now is the time with the Volt.
juscurious 3 years ago
Please state were I can go to find the information you provided. The movie was possibly one sided, though GM has a terrible track record, and I don't believe anything they say. I do want to see both sides of the issue. As to battery technology, the people at CA Edison told me on the phone that the RAV4EV batteries will outlast the car.
FreesWorld 3 years ago
If big government hadn't trashed EVs in the 1920s and earlier, and had invested in an infrastructure that supports it (solar plants, wind, etc) and been given the billions in subsidies that oil, coal & nuclear get, then you (and I) would have jobs right now in the green field and you'd be singing a different tune, because your job would depend on it.
Solar should be massively subsidized. Nuclear should be outlawed.
I agree - ethanol is a stupid waste.
duck24x 1 year ago
We didn't have big government back in the 1920's. EVs weren't feasible because the battery technology wasn't there. Thomas Edison tried but finally concluded it wasn't feasible. Green Energy is a joke and not feasible. The Sun only has 6 good hours on the best day. Besides how would you power a solar airplane? The Wind doesn't blow all the time. Sometimes you can have days without sun or wind. What do you do then? Go without power? You really don't know very much about energy do you?
juscurious 1 year ago
@juscurious They're called batteries, to store the power from the sun & wind. Maybe in the 1920s we didn't have such batteries, but we've got them now.
duck24x 1 year ago
@duck24x
juscurious 1 year ago
Mr. Lovins is neither arrogant nor a bastard. I've been to his house. It is a real house and not a fraud. It's open to anyone to come in and study, which I've done. I doubt if it cost many millions when it was built in the 1980's. I'm building a passive solar home myself and don't much money. I know people off the grid, with less money than me; wind and solar work well for them without government interference. The defense department does not think him a fraud. He is doing great work.
FreesWorld 3 years ago
Ok smartass how do you power a car with solar? Can you hook up your car to a windmill? What do you do for power at night or for that time when you might not see the sun for a few days? What about our airlines? Are you going to suggest we power a 767 with solar power? Think about it. Solar and wind together will never account for more than just a few % of our energy needs. It's a foolish pipe dream for people who do not understand the technical aspects of energy. Lovins is an opportunist.
juscurious 3 years ago
I'm not trying to be a smartass, just have a reasonable discussion. How do you hook your car up to a nuclear plant, windmill, coal plant, or PV's? If it is electric or plug in hybred, just plug it in. I was flying jets until 9/11 so I know something about that industry, and the airlines should be parked unless Lovins ideas on blended wing/body are correct. I prefer electric trains. As far as nuclear go, he claims that the investment capital people are not investing in nuclear.
FreesWorld 3 years ago
You missed the point about Nuclear Power. If we substitute the natural gas we are using in power plants with nuclear we free up a fantasitc amount of natural gas. This natural gas can be used directly as a transportation fuel or converted to synthetic gas, diesel, or jet fuel. The first jet aircraft were propelled from fuel from systhetic gas in 1945. I hope the volt works. If it does I will buy one. But we need more oil for transportation and must drill in short term to keep econdmy going.
juscurious 3 years ago
You bring up so many good points but the 500 character limit is killing me. Pickens is trying to free up natural gas too but with windmills. However, according to rgecdotcom the grid is congested with electricty from windmills already. What to do?
Have you read, Forget Nuclear, by Lovins? It can be found on rmidotorg. He claims that investment capitalists are not investing in nuclear. He states that in 2007 micropower got over $70 billion and nuc got 0. Do you know if this is correct?
FreesWorld 3 years ago
Nuclear power is not economical? What about the 104 plants currently running in U.S. providing 20% of electricity. The problem with nuclear power is not technical but political and legal. Every time a plant is proposed out come the scum of the earth lawyers who funnel the lawsuits to their favorite judges. The judges issue injunctions thereby delaying the projects, causing uncertainities and driving up costs and killing the projects. Look to France, they get over 80% elect power from Nuclear.
juscurious 3 years ago
Yes there are certainly many road blocks. However, my understanding is that 253 plants were originally ordered. Only 132 were built, but 21% were shut down prematurely because of reliability or cost problems. Warren Buffet recently abandoned an nuc plant claiming that it didn't make economic sense.
I don't know, I'm no investment capatilist. I'm just telling you what I've read. If you have any information to the contrary, please point me to where I can find it.
FreesWorld 3 years ago
Exactly what oil/nuke company do you work for juscurious? Every thing you are saying here is completely bogus. So is the pentagon wasting its time working with Amory? Everyone reading this, please just do some serious research. Amory Lovins is a wonderful human being and deserves international recognition for his energy and efficiency research. And yes, you can run your car off of solar and wind, just not the way you are thinking. Research that!
Whaaat2008 3 years ago
I don't work for any oil/nuke company but I would gladly work for either if the job were within my qualifications. I'm an electrical engineer working in Semiconductor Area. However I understand Power/Energy very well. I use to work for a Power Company years ago. This is something Lovins has NEVER done. Go ahead and do some serious research and you will find that Lovins is a quack. Tell me definitively what has Lovins accomplished? Tell me how solar and wind will work for transportation fuels.
juscurious 3 years ago
How about using solar electricity to run an electric car. How about charge that electric car using solar thermal energy and molten salt to run a steam turbine generator that charges your electric car. How about Honda's personal Solar Hydrogen generation system that you can use to turn water into fuel for your hydrogen car. Solar makes this last program clean and efficient and cost pennies compared to traditional hydrogen generators. Amory is not a quack. What are YOU doing to help?
Whaaat2008 3 years ago
I've already stated the limitations of all electric cars. It's a commute car only in mild climates. I'm hoping the Volt will be a PRACTICAL electric car. The problem is that electric cars need to be charged-just like your cell phone. The charging will be done OVERNIGHT and will take about 6 hours. The last time I checked there is NO SOLAR POWER available OVERNIGHT. Aa far as hydrogen is concerned where are you going get the hydrogen? The amount of energy to get hydrogen is enormous.
juscurious 3 years ago
So what you are saying is that the HUGE number of people that can use electric cars shouldn't because they'd have to rent a gas car to go on a long trip. Despite the fact that they'd cut their oil use to 0% during 99% of the year? It's also obvious that you haven't done the first bit of study on the two solar to car energy programs I've listed. You are merely trying to babble louder and show your immense ignorance!
Whaaat2008 3 years ago
Whaaat2008, how's that EV working out for you? Maybe you should just throw it away since other people who live in cold climates can't use them. Just curious obviously knows what he's talking about so I should forget about converting a car to electric. It will never work because an electrical engineer said you can't power a car with solar or wind power. I guess the batteries can somehow tell where the electricity comes from, huh?
Justcurious has an ax to grind and propganda to spread!
cxpage 3 years ago
Well, just like everybody thinks that they are a climate "expert", even though they have not worked in the field of climatology as the scientists who have published peer-reviewed research for the IPCC & NASA have, then Lovins has the right to be equally respected on the subject of energy & transportation even though he hasn't had a job in the field.
Having a job in a field proves nothing about what COULD be.
duck24x 1 year ago
Ummm, let's see....How do you power a car with solar? Well, I am not an electriacl enginner but....Wait! I know...you plug it in! You get an EV or a plug in hybrid and you plug it in the electrical outlet!
You could do it with wind or nuke power too. The batteries do not care how the electricity is made. Most folks only drive their cars a few miles every day. Cloudy day? Pull juice off the grid!
Wow! why didn;t somebody think of this sooner?
cxpage 3 years ago