Jesus is still in the process of examining religions and each individual-Matthew 25:31-46. JW's have put aside that celebration, along with many others. Are YOU STILL celebrating it? It is not Jesus' b-day and Santa is a BIG LIE! Holidays are not 'holy days' as portrayed. They are not biblical, but 'mock' the bible, just put a 'little bible' in it to make it look good. All holidays are pagan. We do not smoke or drink to drunkeness-2 Corinthians 7:1,1 Corinth.6:9,10.We CLEANED UP alot! ARE YOU??
When your child is growing, he learns as he grows.God does not INSTANTLY teach us EVERYTHING. It is a GRADUAL learning. New bible truths, further understanding, is revealed to us. Jesus Christ was revealed GRADUALLY,OVER HUNDREDS AND EVEN THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF YEARS BEFORE HE ACTUALLY CAME TO THE EARTH. God has his way of doing things, he reveals truths, and teaches his people over T-I-M-E. God told Daniel to seal up the book,and wait until the time of the END to reveal it-Daniel 12:4.LEARN
We don't claim perfection..never have! But, as our knowledge grew, and we came to understand the origin of christmas, we realized it was wrong. Christ does not look for perfection, but rather for the right heart condition..for those who will change for truth..not try to change the truth for their own enjoyment. I respect the witnesses for having made the changes when their understanding became deeper. Christendom continue to hold onto the very pagan and very untruthful origins of christmas.
so stop finding failures in others and look at yourself trying to find excuses not to obey God's words, so you can go on following pagan traditions , coz obviousely you know the truth about Cristmas u just excuse yourself to follow it. coz u might lye to humans who are to blind to see the truth but dont your motivation from God.So be carefull, coz for those whom have the knowleage and dont act the right way it will be better for them if they didnt born.
And with analises and with prayer, they started to find out that those teachings were pagan, and if you instaid of trying to show the organization failieurs, u study a bit of History u would find out that cristmas is not Christion, and is totaly based on pagan celebrations to the mighty sun praised by antient pagan peoples, like babilons , egiptions greeks and romans. and one thing that the bible let very clear is that God hates that someone praises false gods, after having the knowleage .
Peter also denied Christ tree times when so suposed Christ followers should denie themselfs and never the Christ and that didnt stop christ from blessing Peter to build His congregation. And they often had desagreements about who to be the gratest in Gods kingdom, and christ had to show them the way,He also said to them that there would be many thing they wouldnt understand just not yet, but they would one day. when Jw started as a congregation there were many things they didnt find not yet.
Refining is going on each day til now,it's what sets us apart. We are willing to make changes when and where neccesary. That's what Jesus was looking for. Despite it being generally now known christmas has pagan origins,churches insist on celebrating it. When we discovered it's origin,it was canned. If he was looking for someone that had everything exactly right,he would have found none.
@Copsweet u use to believe in Christmas , now you dont? You didnt bend "to it" you simply changed your belief!!!!!! Keep fooling yourself, your not fooling anybody else
@singapore7773 Bend,change,adapt,alter,pick a word,what's it matter? When I learned the truth about the origins of christmas,I decided to stop celebrating it. The truth of the matter did'nt change,I did.
@Copsweet we are not talking about u. we are talking about "truth." Paul said the church is truth. Jesus said "go to the church" Would Jesus say go to the church if it taught false things? That is unthinkable. Would Paul call the church TRUTH if it could teach error? nope.
@singapore7773 Gods word is the truth,not the church. The church,or congregation and individuals within have the responsibilty to "walk in Gods word" To "examine scriptures daily to see if things are true" There is only one way we can get to know our creator,that's reading his word,the bible.
@Copsweet You say the church is not the Truth, the bible says the church is the Truth. Who should i believe , you or the bible? I think i will go with the bible.
In case I'm delayed,I'm writing to you so you know how to behave in the house/congregation of God,as it is the pillar/foundation of truth. The church,or congregation,is'nt truth in itself. It needs to have knowledge to have truth. That knowledge is in Gods word. Saying the church is the truth makes it purely subjective,it can do whatever it wants because it's the truth. If that congregation is observing the truth of Gods word,onlythen is it a pillar,or foundation of truth.
@Copsweet Thanks for making my point for me. The church is truth... that verse is not the only proof. Jesus is truth. And Jesus said "i will build MY church and it will not fail.".. That is more proof. There is tons of more proof, way too much for a forum like this. Jesus told Paul "why do u persecute me?" Paul was persecuting the church. so Jesus is equating the church and Himself!!! So that is proof that the church is TRUTH. You have to be looking in the right direction to see the truth.
in your post, you say "it can do WHATEVER it wants." Jesus told Peter WHATEVER you loose is loose WHATEVER you bind is bound" In Catholicism Peter is the Church to a large degree... the first pope ......Thanks for making my point for me. One of the simplest definitions of what is a Catholic is... One who follows the pope..
@singapore7773 Yep,well aware you follow the pope,good luck with that. Matt 23:5. So the catholic church is truth? When they bow before and venerate idols like the cross and mary statues?-Ex 20:4. When they bless and send troops off to war,often killing other catholics,ignoring one of the 10 commandments?Choosing traditions steeped in pagan origin like christmas,easter,birthdays etc instead of worshipping in truth?Teaching falsehoods like hellfire,eternal souls? Could go all night,things to do.
@Copsweet "good luck with that" 2000yrs so far. pretty good luck i would say... Are u JW ? If so its hard to go to war when u skip 1850yrs!!!! You could go on all nite being wrong.. As GK Chesterton said..." someone who only likes victory will always be late for battle"...... JWs were neutral on Hitler? So killing Jews is equal to not killing Jews? that is a fine religion u have.. Your understanding of catholicism is less than shallow
Mat23:9,10-"Do not call any on earth your father,only one is your father,the heavenly one.Neither call any leader,for only one is your leader,the Christ" Is 2:4-"Beat your swords into plowshares,nation shall not lift up sword against nation,neither will they learn war anymore"Matt 26:52-"Those who live by the sword shall die by it" We have a choice,we can either follow what is written in Gods word and the example set by Jesus,or we can look to the "wisdom"of people like GK Chesterton
@Copsweet I guess u are smarter than Paul, Paul calls Abraham father many many times... on second thought u r probably not smarter than Paul. Or we can look to the wisdom of you!!!!! Let the Jews die, we got our bible verses!!!! Sorry u cant let evil alone... u ought to be ashamed of what JWs did in WW ll.. I dont know if u got the messege but Hitler had to be STOPPED...
Abraham had a covenant with Jehovah,that his seed would lead to the messiah,that alone is why he was called father,so no,I'm def not smarter than Paul. 1,000's of german/European witnesses were executed for refusing to join the nazi party or service,you hate them too? Do you hate the Swiss for neutrality? No,def not ashamed we take a stand against war,even if it costs our lives. You proud of the Spanish inquisition and so forth?Anyway,none of it matters,you don't view Gods word as authority
@Copsweet you take a stand against war even if it cost Jews there lives is the problem... Thanks for nothing.... the Swiss? u mean that country that just let Roman Polanski go even though he was convicted of Child Rape? u mean those swiss? Taking a stand against war is fine, letting millions die is not fine. Um u r proving my point for me when u say your guys got killed by the 1000s!!! maybe just maybe they should of FOUGHT for their lives? Or maybe for their childrens lives?????
one minute u r saying "dont call no man father" next minute u r making excuses for Paul calling Abraham father!!!!!! I just hope when your head stops spinning that it is facing forwards
@singapore7773 You realize you're mocking Gods word the bible,not mine right? It's not me saying these things. Look,if you're all for war,go for it,not for me to judge. If you want to sneer at us for ther stand we take,that's your right too. What you can't do is think Gods ok with all this,he did'nt say thou shalt not kill,unless you think you've got a good reason to" He did'nt put loopholes or clauses in his laws and principles. Gods kingdom will end all warfare and injustice,that's what.....
you're praying for whenever you repeat the Lords prayer. Look at rev 21:3,4,that's what the future holds for the earth. God will not allow mankind to keep destroying each other and his earth indefinitely. He has a purpose for it,he will restore it.
@Copsweet I am not mocking Gods word... thou shall not kill has nothing to do with WAR.... it has to do with murder. QUESTION for you... Can i kill someone who breaks in to my home?
@singapore7773 Scripturally,you have the right to defend yourself personally,if you killed them in the process,It'd be between you and God if he thought you used reasonable measure. Where does it say it has nothing to do with war? I've shown you where it says we are to learn war no more. It was in Matthew we're told to call none on earth father,so you were mocking him. Putting the account into context is not making excuses,he was literally the father of that lineage
@Copsweet "scripturally you have the right to defend yourself." But i dont have the right to defend JEWS from hitler scripturally??? Is this a joke? So call no man FATHER doesnt mean no man? It means no man except Abraham? You are something else...You just said the bible is wrong!!!!! Better than admitting you are wrong i guess...LOL... REASON dictates that Jews deserve to live. REASON is completely lacking in Brooklyn Headquarters of JW.
Again,you're mocking Matthews inspired words,not mine. Do you think it meant no child can call their biological parent father? You honestly can't see the difference between that and calling someone father in a spiritual sense? Cya
@Copsweet you are making my point for me... the scripture didnt say a single word about "in a spiritual sense" u just made that up. We catholics dont have a problem with call dad father or priest father .... that is a problem for others
@singapore7773 A problem for Matthew too,but don worry bout it,the "Church"is truth,it can do whatever it wants. Go bow before your idols,celebrate your pagan festivals,teach that God tortures sinners eternally in hellfire,but he'd want to save the Jews,kiss the popes ring,kill your fellow catholics,hell,do whatever you want,the church is truth. Enjoy the last word,make it good
@Copsweet who told u they were idols? Idols are something u adore. We catholics dont adore statues.... is that really so hard to understand? The bible states ...... unquenchable fire.......we dont do whatever we want... that would be you.. you are the ones that started your own church... as if Jesus church wasnt good enuf for u!!!!! We convert pagan celebrations.
@Copsweet i asked u a straight forward question.... who told u they were idols??? surprise surprise u dont answer... is that really so hard to answer?
Ex 20:4-"You must not make for yourself a carved image or form like anything that is in the heavens above or earth below..." If someone close to you were killed,would you think it appropriate to wear a carved image of whatever it was that they were killed by? The Babylonians worshipped a god called tammuz,they used a cross as an idol to bow down to. I have seen church services,priests and parishioners kneel and bow before the cross,statues of Jesus or Mary. We're warned not to bow before images
Leviticus26:1-"You must not setup a carved image or a sacred pillar for yourselves,or a stone as a showpiece in your land in order to bow down to it,for I am Jehovah your God" The Roman Catholic encyclopedia says-"Since the worship given to an image reaches and terminates in the person represented,the same type of worship due the person can be rendered to the image" Do you think this is inline with what the bible says about images?
@singapore7773 Yes,that was part of the instructions for the construction of the ark of the covenant,a very specific project commissioned directly by God to contain the 10 commandments. The ark was never bowed to or worshipped in any way. Do you think the making of the ark means we can bow to images and idols?
@Copsweet first you say we cant make images. then i point out God said to make them. Trust me on this one.. What catholics do is not only "very specific project commissioned directly by God." It is infinitely more than that. Catholics dont worship anything but God... why u keep saying such is beyond me. I think the 10 commandments say something about "bearing false witness against thy neighbor" but i guess the 10 commandments only count when u like them.
Why do you keep attributing the bibles words to me? I def did not write them. Can I ask,did God speak directly to the pope or someone else and commision them to start making crosses and statues and then venerate them? Despite condemning the practice throughout bible history?
@Copsweet Catholics understand a simple concept. God forbids the worship of statues and images.. God doesnt forbid the use of statues or images. Somehow u miss that.. No catholic law says we "must" bow down to any statue or image. If a catholic does this, it is on his or her own accord. We dont worship statues or images just like God demands... what part dont u understand?
@Copsweet Priest and people have alway in catholicism bow and kneel and venerate statues and crosses and we ALWAYS will.. This is Catholicism, 2000yrs strong. This is who we are. We interpret the bible different than you all. When u have been at it for 2000yrs maybe you will understand...
@singapore7773 I understand that,I would only ask how else can we interpret these scriptures? We are explicitly warned to not bow before any images or idols of any sort,and warned in many scriptures throughout.
@Copsweet how else can we interpret these scriptures? simple, by being catholic... LOL. sorry i couldnt resist.... In catholic thought or law.. bowing in that passage translates to worship... in our modern day we worship God in Trinity.. bowing today can mean "honor" or "venerate" and not worship. I have many "holy" pictures in my house. I dont bow to them or worship them.. but i am "inspired" by them.
@Copsweet worship is a sticky word.... Catholics reserve the word for worshiping God as "ADORE" catholics can worship statues and mary and images and saints.. worship just means to show religious honor... It gets very confusing.. because i know non-catholics dont talk thus. sorry my mistake. i was trying to talk your language earlier when i said we dont worship and now i say the opposite.
"ADORE" is for God alone..... we never Adore anything but God... .. have i confused u enuf? sorry.
Respond to this video...I once had a JW elder co-worker. at lunch one day he told me in front of my whole crew. Joe do u know in Mexico City people crawl on their hands and knees for blocks to visit the Virgin De Gaudalupe shrine? He said what do u think of that? I said "i cant wait to do it someday!!!!!!!!
@Copsweet i know my bad... sorry... adoration is for God. no one else. You have to remember the catholic church has been at this for 2000yrs. very confusing... i was watching a movie once about St Bernadette ... she called the priest ... priest... and he got so mad!?!?!? I study catholicism as much as i can... and i have no idea why he got mad? It was some technical thing. I have no idea what or why..
@Copsweet Remember this too... we have Google... any confusion can be cleared up pretty quick with no embarrassment.. just Google catholic worship or catholic ADoration. simple .. google .... do catholic worship mary? images?
@Copsweet You know what, I have been arguing about religion for almost 40yrs. and that is the worst i have ever got "busted" !!!!!!! My face is all red..... LOL
@singapore7773 No,all good. Honestly,I should apologize,I was a bit disrespectfull with some comments,I usually try hard not be,we're taught not to believe it or not. Arguing will never achieve anything,even if your right,better to discuss.
@Copsweet To be honest , catholics rarely if ever use the word worship.. so i was way out on a limb!!! we use... adore.. adoration... prayer.. honor.. venerate... sacrifice.. ... but i hardly ever hear the word worship.
I don't think the question poses much of a challenge toward the issue if we consider that events are critically bound to time and dates as we may perceive them to be. However, that isn't to say that the doctrine was not on the TODO: list(so to speak) with regards to the preparation toward righteous conduct either. Unless of course we move to discount progressiveness entirely. But I don't think this is the case.
E X A C T L Y ! ! ! You have under scored my personal, principle criticism of The Watchtower. This specific question posed to even the most ardent apologist for the organization will squirm demonstrably. It is here that usually you will hear a frustrated muttering of (something like): "Well, you are an apostate! And I shouldn't even be talking with you!"
When we look at the Bible we see that the number 7 is God's divine number. It signifies perfection and completeness in God's eyes.
Currently there are over 7 million people soon to be in number 7,777,777 (7x7) who are a witness (7 letters) about God's name Jehovah (7 letters) who obey Jesus and "Preach the Good News of the Kingdom" (7 words) and the word Kingdom is 7 letters!!
when jesus was a toddler king herod wanted to kill him but could not find jesus so he sent a order out to kill all baby boys that were his age so in a way it is like celebrating the killing of innocent children could u imagine that some one barging into ur house and killing a baby right infront of u?
"so in a way it is like celebrating the killing of innocent children"
Christmas? No, at Christmas we are celebrating what *God* has done by keeping His promise to send us a Savior, not what any man has done (be it a good thing, or something as horribly evil as the order given by herod).
Take the most important date in history(not His birth btw). Invert it and gift wrap it some of the worst pagan doctrine and rituals in history. Then... commercialize that and douse it in lewd self serving conduct, and call it Holy!
Behold the biggest disgrace in human history since the crucifixion of Christ!
Really? how do you celebrate Christmas without carrying out the rituals and practices that make-up Christmas? If we removed all of the pagan/ rituals and practices, then we simply wouldn't have anything left. And based on what I've seen to date, that's unlikely to ever happen, given the reactions people have when changes are as much as suggested. Gosh.. people don't even want to alter the date to reflect Jesus' true birth date!
@SmalltimR You know what the *true* date is?!?!? Please share ;) One thing to consider is the fact that Christmas is actually not about *the* date. Christmas is a season, and actually celebrates more than just the day of Christ's birth. You celebrate it just as I said above, by celebrating what *God* has done by keeping His promise to send us a Savior. Don't need santa claus or anything else to do that :)
The word of God / Jesus doesn't change. What changes is man's interpretation of the verses to fit their belief system. Jehovah Witnesses have repeatedly set 'end of times' dates for Jesus return amd this is completely against scripture because the Bible specifically states no man, angel, etc. knows the date or hour of the return of Jesus.
Jesus must have seen how honest and humble to change the faithful and discrete slave was at the time. the simple fact we have abandoned Christmas proves my point. Jesus could see that they really had the right attitude back then. he reads hearts. had not the apostles disappointed Jesus before? they argued about who would be first in the kingdom and Peter denied Jesus three times, yet Jesus never abandoned them due to their sinful nature. i think Jesus was more interested in the whole JW package.
Doctrine isn't sound if it keeps on changing. The Watchtower doesn't teach sound doctrine. You said, "Jesus was more interested in the whole JW package." Don't you think that He would examine even the most minute details? Even if there was only one sinner on this whole earth, He would still come and died for the person to save them from hell.
did Jesus judge Peter when he cut off a mans ear!? my goodness me no he didnt. he counseled him and corrected him. same applies to all of us sinful people even the WTS. we all make errors. but surely instead of the "minute details" being focused on surely the fact that the WTS had good intentions is far more important. now if Jesus focused on the minute details of the apostles what would have happened!? would there have even been the 12 apostles?
He is above all a compassionate God. " 'The LORD is slow to anger and filled with unfailing love, forgiving every kind of sin and rebellion" (Num.14:18a). Jesus knows that we're sinners, but He does not want anyone to be destroyed, but wants everyone to repent (See 2 Peter 3:9). Works don't get us into Heaven. Our good works are like filthy rags in God's sight (See Isaiah 64:6). Only Jesus gets us into heaven (John 14:6). We are saved by grace through faith in Jesus (Eph. 2:8-9).
I,ve read lots of the comments here. I agree with TRT1914 and poco about acerimmeh's comments: You are indeed a fake JW and you're making a stupid impression.
Come clear and admit that you aren't "the Only True Religion on Our Earth Today", and garbage like that. I've often listened to it again and again in the Kingdom Hall.
Even the some of the days of the week and months of the year are of pagan origin. Monday (the moon), March, (Roman war god) etc. Yet you use them I suppose.
"you are cliaming tha x-mas is STILL pagan even though the events and practices of x-mas is no longer used or linked to false worship."
Bible principles forbid Gods followers to use pagan practices in worship of God, we are told by God what is and what is not acceptable to him. God says he does not accept worhip the way the nations worship their gods, so take it up with him.
"you keep indicating that others are using vulgar language, is that not crying"..."of course you are offended"
Once again you make an assumtion, now you know my feelings to do you.
This tells me a bit about you, if you believed that your abusive speech and the obcene name you called me would offend me, then shy did you do it?
By my words you have judged me to be "an ugly person on the inside". Yet I have not used offensive speech at all, so what do your words say about yourself?
"please learn the definitions of words before you comment. my comments are not assumtions. i am not judging you, i am statingfacts based on your words."
I am stating fact based on your words too. You made "assumtions" to my intitions of posting here, and you assume I don't know the defintions of words i use.
You also deemed my heart to bad when you said I was "an ugly person on the inside", thats called being judgmental.
You view weedingrings as pagan, why do you still use them/
I never said I view them as pagan, I said I recognize they have pagan origins. They don't carry the same meaning as they did in pagan times, and they are not used as symbols in worship to God, like Christmas is, Ive already said this.
Btw fab, I am expecting more verbal insults and accusations if you don't have answers to the simple questions I have asked. I hope you prove me wrong.
"and your words show you are an ugly person on the inside."
Interesting, one only has to scroll down and read all the insults and accusations hurled at me, yet I did not so in return, but you judge ME to be a "ugly person on the inside."
"you have used deu 12:30-31 as proof of gods disproval of x-mas.thanks for sharing because i was not aware of christians burning their children offerings to false gods at x-mas times!"
Have you ever heard of bible principles? If God explicitly told the nations not to worship him how the surrounding pagan nations did, what makes you think he will accept later pagan worship in his name?
Btw you surprised me by your vulgar insult, I thought you were a Christian.
"ok, the rings are not holy but represent the union of marrage that is holy. why can't you undestand this?"
Understand this! This is exactly what I've been getting at, I agree with this statement. I was against the statement that 1914 made, that JW's view "rings as HOLY symbols...", that is not true.
"then why do witnesses wear them as proof of this holy union?"
because it is the custom of our culture, nothing more nothing less, it is NOT because we view the ring as "HOLY".
Does Gods word mean anything to you? If so you will understand after reading that scripture. If not I suppose you will continue to use insults to try and proove your point.
rings are in connection to marriage and marriage is holy.
Are you suggesting that because something is connected to Marriage, that is MUST also be holy or a holy symbol? Do you realise how many things are connected to marriage customs? Where does it stop, for JW's the only thing holy about marriage is the marraige itself, and I find it quite strange you and others feel the need to insult someone because of this.
After reading your comments I stand correct, you are an idiot. JW's double standards as always. You just love to play dumb or maybe you are just plain dumb. The faith you follow is perfect for you. God bless.
You really have a bee in your bonnet don't you, All you can do is hurl insults, all I asked for is proof to your false claim, and of couse you have none, so you insult, childish, and your supposed to be 45 lol. I answered your questions, you answered none of mine and you accuse me of dodging questions.
And yes the faith I follow is perfect for me, it keeps me from reviling even when being reviled.
Awake! of January 8, 2000. In the article entitled, A Balanced View of Popular Customs, they noted on pages 26-27, Although there may be reason to examine the origin of a particular custom, in some cases it is more important to consider what the custom means to people at the time and in the place where one NOW lives.
I never said the rings were Holy. I said they were holy symbols. They are directly connected with the holy arrangement of marrage. Yes, they are objects but they are used by JW's in the USA and you are trying to avoid the fact that they are from Pagan origins. You know this is true because you are trying to justify that many don't use them. If they were not pagan, then why are you trying to prove that it is not Scriptural? Then why not label them as pagan like you have about Christmas?
"They are directly connected with the holy arrangement of marrage."
No they are not. If they were Adam would have given one to Eve. There are many examples of marriage in the Bible, I can think of none that had the exchange of rings. It is a later custom and does not need to be done to have Gods blessing.
As for the differnce between Christmas/Easter and other customs that have pagan origins, I have already covered that and don't feel like repeating myself again.
You know as well as I do that JW's do not have "holy symbols", ask a any JW what the wedding ring represents and they will never say it is a "holy symbol", btw you still haven't provided any proof to your claim.
"you are trying to avoid the fact that they(rings) are from Pagan origins."
I have already acknowledged there pagan origins among other things such as our calender. explaination is there.
"Then why not label them as pagan like you have about Christmas?"
The answer is in the articale you quoted. Wedding rings and calanders (both have pagan origins) are not used in worship to God, Christmas and Easter are used to worship God (Due 12:30-31).
After being an elder for 15 yrs, I'm surprised you don't already know the difference.
Tell me, do you now use Christmas and Easter as forms of worship to God?
I must say, you are an idiot. You need it to be written in black and white or you will not believe it. But of course, if the WTS says something, then it's law. Anyone with logic can understand the reasoning about the symbol of rings but you just plainly won't admit it. Anything that shows the hypocrisy of the WTS will be defended by idiots as yourself. If rings are NOT a symbol used as God's blessing, then why do JW use them? You are such a fake! Keep avoiding the question, you are good at that.
Hi poconoporker, I see you are still making obscene and racist comments towards me, no doubt it is because of satans influence, I forgive you, here are some scriptures to help with that anger
I remain concerned about your racist behavior toward other nations, you know God made everyone equal, no race is superior to another, not matter what an individual may think.
Anyway, I hope you have a great time over the holiday poconoporker.
In 1919, The Watchtower was teaching that the Piramids of Egipt were God's Witnesses of stone in the desert after the Bible. In 1928, Judge Rutherford changed this doctrine teaching now that the piramids of Egipt were not God's witnesses of stone in the desert, but rather, Satan's stone instrument in desert. ¿How can Jesús choose in 1919 the Watchtower as the true spiritual food provider, if 9 years after 1919, this doctrine was trow to the trush ?
The Finished Mistery published in 1917 and presented by J.Rutherford that year, you can see in page 188 that Micheal the Archangel was the Pope of the Catholic Church of Rome and not Jesuschrist. The questíon is: ¿How can Jesus choose the Watchtower as his unique faithful Slave, due to the good quality of the spiritual food provided to household in 1919, if later, after 1919 this was changed, teaching that Michael was not to be the Pope, but rather Jesuschrist?
I was 30 years old when I started serving as an elder, not seven. Outlines given to me by the writing committee for wedding vows and discourses was for my personal viewing as an ordained minister. The materials to the public are carefully worded as not to bring any doubt to their decisions when it comes to customs. Of course what you read in the WT is generalized. I am sharing my experience as an ex elder, if you accept it or not, that is not my purpose here.
"I was 30 years old when I started serving as an elder, not seven."
Thats obvious, I was making a point.
You stated, "but this has been changed from when I was an elder."
Obviously since that WT was long before you ever became an elder, the position on wedding rings was the same when you became one, hence your statment "this has been changed from when I was an elder" is in error.
And I can guarentee you the outline from the Society did not call wedding bands "HOLY".
Notice the description of rings: The circle, the basic shape of the vast majority of rings, is itself a central design in SACRED geometry. The open circle symbolizes WHOLENESS, COMPLETION.
So the circle is a sacred geomerty, but sacred to whom?
Does this mean donuts are sacred?
Nothing in the Bible or the WTS literature will support your claim that JW's use "rings as a HOLY symbol of Gods blessing". I have asked for proof, yet you still provide NONE.
My words are based on YOUR faith, not mine. The society stressed the importance of what wedding rings signified in a marriage but then say it is not a requirement. This is the WTS reasoning, not mine. I'm only pointing out the inconsistent logic that they use. Keep defending a man made Organization, in the end you will find yourself where you started, nowhere.
I can understand that rings are a personal choice, but this has been changed from when I was an elder. It's no surprise that the WTS changes their views on matters when they are being attacked. When I married couples, I had outlines from the Society and it gave much importance to the rings. This is no longer the issue and I can understand it now. But the fact remains, if the rings are pagan, why do many JW's use them? Should it not be avoided completely? Changes are needed before accusations.
"I can understand that rings are a personal choice, but this has been changed from when I was an elder."
Lets put this claim to the test.
Your profile says you are 45, you were an elder for 15 years correct? That WT I quoted was from 1972, that means you were last an elder at the age of 7 and became an elder before you were born.
Or could it be that your claim was wrong?
"I had outlines from the Society and it gave much importance to the rings."
@acerimmeh , "Rings are a protection" is the words used by the WTS for my Discourses on wedding ceremonies. Stop trying to take me off track by your accusations. I am not preaching, I am revieling the Hypocrisy of a Religion that allows Pagan items to be used and yet say it is an individuals conscious. This is the same reasoning about their doctrine of blood, you can't get a blood transfusion BUT an organ transplant is OK if you conscious is not bothered. Give me a break!
"Rings are a protection" is the words used by the WTS for my Discourses on wedding ceremonies."
Right so does that mean they are "HOLY" as you claim JW's believe. No it doesn't. Your claim that JW's "use rings as HOLY symbols..." is false. I don't expect you to admit it, it does not suit your agenda.
The apostle Paul gave an example of being everything to everyone to gain their favor. Why? Not to stumble anyone. Why would you not wear a wedding ring if you are married? Would this not stumble non married individuals, leading them to conclusions? Rings are also a protection from getting into situations not appropriate for Christians. Do you not agree? Do not merely base all your logic on what you read, use common sense.
"Why would you not wear a wedding ring if you are married?"
Are you now insisting that everyone must wear a wedding ring?
What if its not part of ones custom or tradition from where they are from? What if it goes against ones conscience?
There is nothing in the bible to suggest that one has to wear a wedding ring, that is simply your opinion wich you are of course entitled to, but that is all it is.
@acerimmeh , Again you are supposing. I am talking about JW in the USA. I did not realize you are not from the States. Yes, customs and traditions play a part in the use of rings. You are also drawing conclusions and putting words in my mouth just as a good JW is taught to do, I comment your grasp of using WT tactics. I do not insist the use of rings, nor do I state it is Christian or in the Bible. You are losing sight of this discussion: Wedding rings are non Scriptural & yet JW still use them.
Marriage is a sacred institution arranged by God. Scriptures indicate that man will bond to his wife and no man can separate what God has yoked together. Do you know what Sacred means?Marriage is Sacred and everything used in connection with it is also Sacred. The WTS has found new light again by saying that the rings are not important. I have married about a dozen couples and the ring was always brought to light as a Sacred symbol of the bond of union between husband and wife.
"Marriage is a sacred institution arranged by God"
I agree
"everything used in connection with it is also Sacred."
I disagree
Is the viel sacred?
Is the white dress sacred?
Is the cake sacred?
Is the best man sacred?
The ONLY thing that we know is sacred is the Marraige between a man and a woman, anything beyond this is simply customs and traditions of men and theres nothing sacred about them.
@acerimmeh , you are avoiding the obvious. The rings are connected directly to the vows and what they symbolize. Your examples of the veil and the best man is very amusing :)
There is no amount of proof or reasoning that will ever get through to someone with WatchTower mentality. And WT mentality is not something to be praised for either to you JWs, it is something very horrid and wrong.
You are either in or out. You can not make up your own rules. All JW that are married wear rings. It is under God's arrangements to be submissive to the authorities of our land. The rings are exchanged as a witness to all including God. If one decides not to use it afterward, then that is another story. To avoid any stumbling among other JW, they wear and display such rings.
This is of couse is another false blanket statement
..."a wedding ring is by no means a Christian requirement. One Christian might decide not to wear a wedding ring, because of conscience, personal taste, cost, local custom, or some other reason....in the final analysis the decision is a personal one, to be made in accord with the conscientious views one holds."
@scooterbugs25 The JWs are more comfortable with ad hominem, red herring, tu quoque and various other logical fallacies. I seriously doubt that any will really try to answer the question.
Neither do true Christians worship Christ. They know that the worldly holiday falsely based on his "supposed" birth in Dec. is just a false pagan holiday which comes in a nice, pretty, "christian" wrapper.
As I said......xmas is not for true Christians. And Jesus was never in it; never had anything to do with it. Just false religionists hypocritically claiming to follow him!!!
@JWinCT Are you saying that JWs previous to 1953 were NOT Christians? Why do I ask this? Because the WT taught that Jesus was to be worshiped until 1954. I can provide references to anyone who is interested.
It goes to show that this NEW LIGHT bs is going to far sometimes......I guess that Jehovah is changing his mind...yeah that's it..its god's fault!.....Jehovah Witnesses are a joke, to be claming that they are the chosen one...ohhhh PLEASE!
They are "inspired" by God only until they get a new president or change major doctrine, then it's "we're imperfect men trying to do God's will".. But like Russell said, "New light NEVER extinguishes old light, only adds to it". Guess they threw that belief out the window too..The "new light" extinguished it LOL
Would Martin Luther recongnize it today? Was Jesus supportive of the Catholic church for 100's of years and then against it in favor of Protestantism?
So now, he supports a completely different looking Protestant church?
Christendom has abandoned Daniel 12:4not just Pro. 4:18 (& every other Scripture that compares knowledge with light) and refuse to admit that anything has changed in their religion. I'm certain Martin Luther would condemn them today. JC too.
Jesus doesn't endorse any man made church, protestant or Catholic. Jesus is the savior, and all who trust in Him are reborn and have eternal life. The church is all who have Jesus, not some organization run by man. I am neither protestant or Catholic, I am saved.
Just because JWs back then still celebrated the pagan festival known as Christmas does not mean the slave class would fail inspection, they were imperfect men just like the apostles who made mistakes. What matters, is once they realised Christmas was steeped in false god pagan worship that is detestable to Jehovah and his Son, they abandoned the tradition in favour of pleasing God. It is the desire to follow Gods commands as opposed to beloved traditions of man is what Christ seen.
acerimmeh, according to you, "imperfect men" made mistakes. Ok, did Jesus make a 'mistake' by choosing the JW's in 1919 when they were celebrating Christmas? He's perfect, no?
but that's just it, they claim to be perfect, just as the LDS and Catholic churches do. These "us only" organizations claim to be God's voice on earth, and their leaders holy prophets who are above scrutiny. So, if we find them blatantly in error, we can say truly and surely that they are NOT God's voice on earth.
acerimmeh, they do not claim to be perfect; however, they do claim that God is directing them to feed his flock...Why would God mislead these men if they were doing such? Wouldn't that make God a Liar? The bible claims the father of the lie is, right? Does that mean that rather than God directing this organization it is an angel that keeps transforming himself into light, to make it seem like God?
you are suggesting the people that God diercts will remain free from blemish, yet throughout scripture the opposite is seen. The JW's back then did not know Christmas was pagan festival detestable to God, the same way Saul did not know killing Christians was aswell, yet Jesus still Chose Saul. Upon realising it was the wrong thing to do Saul stopped, as did the JW's with Christmas.
Wow, excellent observation on the Christmas 1919 quote. I will have to add that one. I thought you may like these too:
WT 12/15/1903 - It is quite immaterial the day Christmas is celebrated; we may properly join in
WT 12/1/1904 - Don't quibble about the date; join in with the world and celebrate Christmas
WT 11/15/1907 - "Studies in the Scriptures" a good gift idea
WT 12/15/1926 - Christmas is so important, regardless of the date
firebirdhome 5 months ago
Jesus is still in the process of examining religions and each individual-Matthew 25:31-46. JW's have put aside that celebration, along with many others. Are YOU STILL celebrating it? It is not Jesus' b-day and Santa is a BIG LIE! Holidays are not 'holy days' as portrayed. They are not biblical, but 'mock' the bible, just put a 'little bible' in it to make it look good. All holidays are pagan. We do not smoke or drink to drunkeness-2 Corinthians 7:1,1 Corinth.6:9,10.We CLEANED UP alot! ARE YOU??
eternityandforever 6 months ago
When your child is growing, he learns as he grows.God does not INSTANTLY teach us EVERYTHING. It is a GRADUAL learning. New bible truths, further understanding, is revealed to us. Jesus Christ was revealed GRADUALLY,OVER HUNDREDS AND EVEN THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF YEARS BEFORE HE ACTUALLY CAME TO THE EARTH. God has his way of doing things, he reveals truths, and teaches his people over T-I-M-E. God told Daniel to seal up the book,and wait until the time of the END to reveal it-Daniel 12:4.LEARN
eternityandforever 8 months ago
We don't claim perfection..never have! But, as our knowledge grew, and we came to understand the origin of christmas, we realized it was wrong. Christ does not look for perfection, but rather for the right heart condition..for those who will change for truth..not try to change the truth for their own enjoyment. I respect the witnesses for having made the changes when their understanding became deeper. Christendom continue to hold onto the very pagan and very untruthful origins of christmas.
brofun 11 months ago
so stop finding failures in others and look at yourself trying to find excuses not to obey God's words, so you can go on following pagan traditions , coz obviousely you know the truth about Cristmas u just excuse yourself to follow it. coz u might lye to humans who are to blind to see the truth but dont your motivation from God.So be carefull, coz for those whom have the knowleage and dont act the right way it will be better for them if they didnt born.
Cadis1977 1 year ago
And with analises and with prayer, they started to find out that those teachings were pagan, and if you instaid of trying to show the organization failieurs, u study a bit of History u would find out that cristmas is not Christion, and is totaly based on pagan celebrations to the mighty sun praised by antient pagan peoples, like babilons , egiptions greeks and romans. and one thing that the bible let very clear is that God hates that someone praises false gods, after having the knowleage .
Cadis1977 1 year ago
Peter also denied Christ tree times when so suposed Christ followers should denie themselfs and never the Christ and that didnt stop christ from blessing Peter to build His congregation. And they often had desagreements about who to be the gratest in Gods kingdom, and christ had to show them the way,He also said to them that there would be many thing they wouldnt understand just not yet, but they would one day. when Jw started as a congregation there were many things they didnt find not yet.
Cadis1977 1 year ago
good job on this video....... LONG LIVE THE POPE.....
infant child of prague , pray for us
singapore7773 1 year ago
Refining is going on each day til now,it's what sets us apart. We are willing to make changes when and where neccesary. That's what Jesus was looking for. Despite it being generally now known christmas has pagan origins,churches insist on celebrating it. When we discovered it's origin,it was canned. If he was looking for someone that had everything exactly right,he would have found none.
Copsweet 1 year ago
@Copsweet u cant change truth and call it refining .... sheeeeeesh.
what crazy talk
singapore7773 1 year ago
@singapore7773 Truth never changes,it's our willingness to bend to it when realized or discovered that is the refining.
Copsweet 1 year ago
@Copsweet u use to believe in Christmas , now you dont? You didnt bend "to it" you simply changed your belief!!!!!! Keep fooling yourself, your not fooling anybody else
singapore7773 1 year ago
@singapore7773 Bend,change,adapt,alter,pick a word,what's it matter? When I learned the truth about the origins of christmas,I decided to stop celebrating it. The truth of the matter did'nt change,I did.
Copsweet 1 year ago
@Copsweet we are not talking about u. we are talking about "truth." Paul said the church is truth. Jesus said "go to the church" Would Jesus say go to the church if it taught false things? That is unthinkable. Would Paul call the church TRUTH if it could teach error? nope.
singapore7773 1 year ago
@singapore7773 Gods word is the truth,not the church. The church,or congregation and individuals within have the responsibilty to "walk in Gods word" To "examine scriptures daily to see if things are true" There is only one way we can get to know our creator,that's reading his word,the bible.
Copsweet 1 year ago
@Copsweet Gods word says the church is the TRUTH.. u r trapped!!!!!!!!!!
LONG LIVE THE POPE
singapore7773 1 year ago
@Copsweet You say the church is not the Truth, the bible says the church is the Truth. Who should i believe , you or the bible? I think i will go with the bible.
singapore7773 1 year ago
@singapore7773 can you tell me the verse pls?
Copsweet 1 year ago
@Copsweet 1 Tim 3:15
singapore7773 1 year ago
In case I'm delayed,I'm writing to you so you know how to behave in the house/congregation of God,as it is the pillar/foundation of truth. The church,or congregation,is'nt truth in itself. It needs to have knowledge to have truth. That knowledge is in Gods word. Saying the church is the truth makes it purely subjective,it can do whatever it wants because it's the truth. If that congregation is observing the truth of Gods word,onlythen is it a pillar,or foundation of truth.
Copsweet 1 year ago
@Copsweet Thanks for making my point for me. The church is truth... that verse is not the only proof. Jesus is truth. And Jesus said "i will build MY church and it will not fail.".. That is more proof. There is tons of more proof, way too much for a forum like this. Jesus told Paul "why do u persecute me?" Paul was persecuting the church. so Jesus is equating the church and Himself!!! So that is proof that the church is TRUTH. You have to be looking in the right direction to see the truth.
singapore7773 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
in your post, you say "it can do WHATEVER it wants." Jesus told Peter WHATEVER you loose is loose WHATEVER you bind is bound" In Catholicism Peter is the Church to a large degree... the first pope ......Thanks for making my point for me. One of the simplest definitions of what is a Catholic is... One who follows the pope..
singapore7773 1 year ago
@singapore7773 Yep,well aware you follow the pope,good luck with that. Matt 23:5. So the catholic church is truth? When they bow before and venerate idols like the cross and mary statues?-Ex 20:4. When they bless and send troops off to war,often killing other catholics,ignoring one of the 10 commandments?Choosing traditions steeped in pagan origin like christmas,easter,birthdays etc instead of worshipping in truth?Teaching falsehoods like hellfire,eternal souls? Could go all night,things to do.
Copsweet 1 year ago
@Copsweet "good luck with that" 2000yrs so far. pretty good luck i would say... Are u JW ? If so its hard to go to war when u skip 1850yrs!!!! You could go on all nite being wrong.. As GK Chesterton said..." someone who only likes victory will always be late for battle"...... JWs were neutral on Hitler? So killing Jews is equal to not killing Jews? that is a fine religion u have.. Your understanding of catholicism is less than shallow
singapore7773 1 year ago
Mat23:9,10-"Do not call any on earth your father,only one is your father,the heavenly one.Neither call any leader,for only one is your leader,the Christ" Is 2:4-"Beat your swords into plowshares,nation shall not lift up sword against nation,neither will they learn war anymore"Matt 26:52-"Those who live by the sword shall die by it" We have a choice,we can either follow what is written in Gods word and the example set by Jesus,or we can look to the "wisdom"of people like GK Chesterton
Copsweet 1 year ago
@Copsweet I guess u are smarter than Paul, Paul calls Abraham father many many times... on second thought u r probably not smarter than Paul. Or we can look to the wisdom of you!!!!! Let the Jews die, we got our bible verses!!!! Sorry u cant let evil alone... u ought to be ashamed of what JWs did in WW ll.. I dont know if u got the messege but Hitler had to be STOPPED...
singapore7773 1 year ago
Abraham had a covenant with Jehovah,that his seed would lead to the messiah,that alone is why he was called father,so no,I'm def not smarter than Paul. 1,000's of german/European witnesses were executed for refusing to join the nazi party or service,you hate them too? Do you hate the Swiss for neutrality? No,def not ashamed we take a stand against war,even if it costs our lives. You proud of the Spanish inquisition and so forth?Anyway,none of it matters,you don't view Gods word as authority
Copsweet 1 year ago
@Copsweet you take a stand against war even if it cost Jews there lives is the problem... Thanks for nothing.... the Swiss? u mean that country that just let Roman Polanski go even though he was convicted of Child Rape? u mean those swiss? Taking a stand against war is fine, letting millions die is not fine. Um u r proving my point for me when u say your guys got killed by the 1000s!!! maybe just maybe they should of FOUGHT for their lives? Or maybe for their childrens lives?????
singapore7773 1 year ago
one minute u r saying "dont call no man father" next minute u r making excuses for Paul calling Abraham father!!!!!! I just hope when your head stops spinning that it is facing forwards
singapore7773 1 year ago
@singapore7773 You realize you're mocking Gods word the bible,not mine right? It's not me saying these things. Look,if you're all for war,go for it,not for me to judge. If you want to sneer at us for ther stand we take,that's your right too. What you can't do is think Gods ok with all this,he did'nt say thou shalt not kill,unless you think you've got a good reason to" He did'nt put loopholes or clauses in his laws and principles. Gods kingdom will end all warfare and injustice,that's what.....
Copsweet 1 year ago
you're praying for whenever you repeat the Lords prayer. Look at rev 21:3,4,that's what the future holds for the earth. God will not allow mankind to keep destroying each other and his earth indefinitely. He has a purpose for it,he will restore it.
Copsweet 1 year ago
@Copsweet I am not mocking Gods word... thou shall not kill has nothing to do with WAR.... it has to do with murder. QUESTION for you... Can i kill someone who breaks in to my home?
singapore7773 1 year ago
@singapore7773 Scripturally,you have the right to defend yourself personally,if you killed them in the process,It'd be between you and God if he thought you used reasonable measure. Where does it say it has nothing to do with war? I've shown you where it says we are to learn war no more. It was in Matthew we're told to call none on earth father,so you were mocking him. Putting the account into context is not making excuses,he was literally the father of that lineage
Copsweet 1 year ago
@Copsweet "scripturally you have the right to defend yourself." But i dont have the right to defend JEWS from hitler scripturally??? Is this a joke? So call no man FATHER doesnt mean no man? It means no man except Abraham? You are something else...You just said the bible is wrong!!!!! Better than admitting you are wrong i guess...LOL... REASON dictates that Jews deserve to live. REASON is completely lacking in Brooklyn Headquarters of JW.
singapore7773 1 year ago
Again,you're mocking Matthews inspired words,not mine. Do you think it meant no child can call their biological parent father? You honestly can't see the difference between that and calling someone father in a spiritual sense? Cya
Copsweet 1 year ago
@Copsweet you are making my point for me... the scripture didnt say a single word about "in a spiritual sense" u just made that up. We catholics dont have a problem with call dad father or priest father .... that is a problem for others
singapore7773 1 year ago
@singapore7773 A problem for Matthew too,but don worry bout it,the "Church"is truth,it can do whatever it wants. Go bow before your idols,celebrate your pagan festivals,teach that God tortures sinners eternally in hellfire,but he'd want to save the Jews,kiss the popes ring,kill your fellow catholics,hell,do whatever you want,the church is truth. Enjoy the last word,make it good
Copsweet 1 year ago
@Copsweet who told u they were idols? Idols are something u adore. We catholics dont adore statues.... is that really so hard to understand? The bible states ...... unquenchable fire.......we dont do whatever we want... that would be you.. you are the ones that started your own church... as if Jesus church wasnt good enuf for u!!!!! We convert pagan celebrations.
singapore7773 1 year ago
@singapore7773 Oh c'mon,I give you the last word and I get "I know you are you said you are so what am I?" Dissapointing
Copsweet 1 year ago
@Copsweet i asked u a straight forward question.... who told u they were idols??? surprise surprise u dont answer... is that really so hard to answer?
singapore7773 1 year ago
Ex 20:4-"You must not make for yourself a carved image or form like anything that is in the heavens above or earth below..." If someone close to you were killed,would you think it appropriate to wear a carved image of whatever it was that they were killed by? The Babylonians worshipped a god called tammuz,they used a cross as an idol to bow down to. I have seen church services,priests and parishioners kneel and bow before the cross,statues of Jesus or Mary. We're warned not to bow before images
Copsweet 1 year ago
Leviticus26:1-"You must not setup a carved image or a sacred pillar for yourselves,or a stone as a showpiece in your land in order to bow down to it,for I am Jehovah your God" The Roman Catholic encyclopedia says-"Since the worship given to an image reaches and terminates in the person represented,the same type of worship due the person can be rendered to the image" Do you think this is inline with what the bible says about images?
Copsweet 1 year ago
@Copsweet you forgot Ex 25;19 "make one cherub on one end and one cherub on the other end, make them out of GOLD.
singapore7773 1 year ago
@singapore7773 Yes,that was part of the instructions for the construction of the ark of the covenant,a very specific project commissioned directly by God to contain the 10 commandments. The ark was never bowed to or worshipped in any way. Do you think the making of the ark means we can bow to images and idols?
Copsweet 1 year ago
@Copsweet first you say we cant make images. then i point out God said to make them. Trust me on this one.. What catholics do is not only "very specific project commissioned directly by God." It is infinitely more than that. Catholics dont worship anything but God... why u keep saying such is beyond me. I think the 10 commandments say something about "bearing false witness against thy neighbor" but i guess the 10 commandments only count when u like them.
singapore7773 1 year ago
Why do you keep attributing the bibles words to me? I def did not write them. Can I ask,did God speak directly to the pope or someone else and commision them to start making crosses and statues and then venerate them? Despite condemning the practice throughout bible history?
Copsweet 1 year ago
@Copsweet no God doesnt speak directly to the pope about such matters. Again..
God forbids the worship of statues and images...
God doesnt forbid the "use" of statues and images
singapore7773 1 year ago
@Copsweet Catholics understand a simple concept. God forbids the worship of statues and images.. God doesnt forbid the use of statues or images. Somehow u miss that.. No catholic law says we "must" bow down to any statue or image. If a catholic does this, it is on his or her own accord. We dont worship statues or images just like God demands... what part dont u understand?
singapore7773 1 year ago
@Copsweet Priest and people have alway in catholicism bow and kneel and venerate statues and crosses and we ALWAYS will.. This is Catholicism, 2000yrs strong. This is who we are. We interpret the bible different than you all. When u have been at it for 2000yrs maybe you will understand...
singapore7773 1 year ago
@singapore7773 I understand that,I would only ask how else can we interpret these scriptures? We are explicitly warned to not bow before any images or idols of any sort,and warned in many scriptures throughout.
Copsweet 1 year ago
@Copsweet how else can we interpret these scriptures? simple, by being catholic... LOL. sorry i couldnt resist.... In catholic thought or law.. bowing in that passage translates to worship... in our modern day we worship God in Trinity.. bowing today can mean "honor" or "venerate" and not worship. I have many "holy" pictures in my house. I dont bow to them or worship them.. but i am "inspired" by them.
singapore7773 1 year ago
Well,the encyclopedia quoted above is from I think 1967,and it def says worship rendered to these idols,or images. Has it since been changed?
Copsweet 1 year ago
@Copsweet worship is a sticky word.... Catholics reserve the word for worshiping God as "ADORE" catholics can worship statues and mary and images and saints.. worship just means to show religious honor... It gets very confusing.. because i know non-catholics dont talk thus. sorry my mistake. i was trying to talk your language earlier when i said we dont worship and now i say the opposite.
"ADORE" is for God alone..... we never Adore anything but God... .. have i confused u enuf? sorry.
singapore7773 1 year ago
Respond to this video...I once had a JW elder co-worker. at lunch one day he told me in front of my whole crew. Joe do u know in Mexico City people crawl on their hands and knees for blocks to visit the Virgin De Gaudalupe shrine? He said what do u think of that? I said "i cant wait to do it someday!!!!!!!!
singapore7773 1 year ago
@singapore7773 Ahh,not too sure what I'm to say to that,where you going with it?
Copsweet 1 year ago
@Copsweet i know my bad... sorry... adoration is for God. no one else. You have to remember the catholic church has been at this for 2000yrs. very confusing... i was watching a movie once about St Bernadette ... she called the priest ... priest... and he got so mad!?!?!? I study catholicism as much as i can... and i have no idea why he got mad? It was some technical thing. I have no idea what or why..
singapore7773 1 year ago
@Copsweet Remember this too... we have Google... any confusion can be cleared up pretty quick with no embarrassment.. just Google catholic worship or catholic ADoration. simple .. google .... do catholic worship mary? images?
singapore7773 1 year ago
@Copsweet i was trying to talk your language and it back fired
singapore7773 1 year ago
@Copsweet You know what, I have been arguing about religion for almost 40yrs. and that is the worst i have ever got "busted" !!!!!!! My face is all red..... LOL
singapore7773 1 year ago
@singapore7773 No,all good. Honestly,I should apologize,I was a bit disrespectfull with some comments,I usually try hard not be,we're taught not to believe it or not. Arguing will never achieve anything,even if your right,better to discuss.
Copsweet 1 year ago
@Copsweet To be honest , catholics rarely if ever use the word worship.. so i was way out on a limb!!! we use... adore.. adoration... prayer.. honor.. venerate... sacrifice.. ... but i hardly ever hear the word worship.
singapore7773 1 year ago
I don't think the question poses much of a challenge toward the issue if we consider that events are critically bound to time and dates as we may perceive them to be. However, that isn't to say that the doctrine was not on the TODO: list(so to speak) with regards to the preparation toward righteous conduct either. Unless of course we move to discount progressiveness entirely. But I don't think this is the case.
SmalltimR 1 year ago
E X A C T L Y ! ! ! You have under scored my personal, principle criticism of The Watchtower. This specific question posed to even the most ardent apologist for the organization will squirm demonstrably. It is here that usually you will hear a frustrated muttering of (something like): "Well, you are an apostate! And I shouldn't even be talking with you!"
Excellent post brutha!
mrbarthoss 1 year ago
When we look at the Bible we see that the number 7 is God's divine number. It signifies perfection and completeness in God's eyes.
Currently there are over 7 million people soon to be in number 7,777,777 (7x7) who are a witness (7 letters) about God's name Jehovah (7 letters) who obey Jesus and "Preach the Good News of the Kingdom" (7 words) and the word Kingdom is 7 letters!!
W-O-R-S-H-I-P 7 letters J-E-H-O-V-A-H 7 letters
Whois-GodDotcom
CanWeKnowDotcom
False-ReligionDotcom
ReligionOrTruth 1 year ago
when jesus was a toddler king herod wanted to kill him but could not find jesus so he sent a order out to kill all baby boys that were his age so in a way it is like celebrating the killing of innocent children could u imagine that some one barging into ur house and killing a baby right infront of u?
starsabove1 2 years ago
"so in a way it is like celebrating the killing of innocent children"
Christmas? No, at Christmas we are celebrating what *God* has done by keeping His promise to send us a Savior, not what any man has done (be it a good thing, or something as horribly evil as the order given by herod).
fairwhether1 2 years ago
@fairwhether1
Christmas is quite possibly the biggest disgrace ever made toward God.
SmalltimR 1 year ago
@SmalltimR Howso?
fairwhether1 1 year ago
@fairwhether1
Take the most important date in history(not His birth btw). Invert it and gift wrap it some of the worst pagan doctrine and rituals in history. Then... commercialize that and douse it in lewd self serving conduct, and call it Holy!
Behold the biggest disgrace in human history since the crucifixion of Christ!
SmalltimR 1 year ago
@SmalltimR No thanks. You don't have to do any of that in order to celebrate Christmas ;)
fairwhether1 1 year ago
@fairwhether1
Really? how do you celebrate Christmas without carrying out the rituals and practices that make-up Christmas? If we removed all of the pagan/ rituals and practices, then we simply wouldn't have anything left. And based on what I've seen to date, that's unlikely to ever happen, given the reactions people have when changes are as much as suggested. Gosh.. people don't even want to alter the date to reflect Jesus' true birth date!
Satan is never let this one go imo.
SmalltimR 1 year ago
@SmalltimR You know what the *true* date is?!?!? Please share ;) One thing to consider is the fact that Christmas is actually not about *the* date. Christmas is a season, and actually celebrates more than just the day of Christ's birth. You celebrate it just as I said above, by celebrating what *God* has done by keeping His promise to send us a Savior. Don't need santa claus or anything else to do that :)
fairwhether1 1 year ago
The word of God / Jesus doesn't change. What changes is man's interpretation of the verses to fit their belief system. Jehovah Witnesses have repeatedly set 'end of times' dates for Jesus return amd this is completely against scripture because the Bible specifically states no man, angel, etc. knows the date or hour of the return of Jesus.
lady1955 2 years ago
i love ur videos.God bless u and keep it up.
arnie365 2 years ago
Jesus must have seen how honest and humble to change the faithful and discrete slave was at the time. the simple fact we have abandoned Christmas proves my point. Jesus could see that they really had the right attitude back then. he reads hearts. had not the apostles disappointed Jesus before? they argued about who would be first in the kingdom and Peter denied Jesus three times, yet Jesus never abandoned them due to their sinful nature. i think Jesus was more interested in the whole JW package.
youwhosnameisjehovah 2 years ago
Doctrine isn't sound if it keeps on changing. The Watchtower doesn't teach sound doctrine. You said, "Jesus was more interested in the whole JW package." Don't you think that He would examine even the most minute details? Even if there was only one sinner on this whole earth, He would still come and died for the person to save them from hell.
BlaineKatsura 2 years ago
did Jesus judge Peter when he cut off a mans ear!? my goodness me no he didnt. he counseled him and corrected him. same applies to all of us sinful people even the WTS. we all make errors. but surely instead of the "minute details" being focused on surely the fact that the WTS had good intentions is far more important. now if Jesus focused on the minute details of the apostles what would have happened!? would there have even been the 12 apostles?
youwhosnameisjehovah 2 years ago
He is above all a compassionate God. " 'The LORD is slow to anger and filled with unfailing love, forgiving every kind of sin and rebellion" (Num.14:18a). Jesus knows that we're sinners, but He does not want anyone to be destroyed, but wants everyone to repent (See 2 Peter 3:9). Works don't get us into Heaven. Our good works are like filthy rags in God's sight (See Isaiah 64:6). Only Jesus gets us into heaven (John 14:6). We are saved by grace through faith in Jesus (Eph. 2:8-9).
BlaineKatsura 2 years ago
Merry Christmas acerimmeh!
tommotian 2 years ago
@tommotian
Thank you for the kind sentiment, I hope you enjoy your holidays too.
acerimmeh 2 years ago
I,ve read lots of the comments here. I agree with TRT1914 and poco about acerimmeh's comments: You are indeed a fake JW and you're making a stupid impression.
Come clear and admit that you aren't "the Only True Religion on Our Earth Today", and garbage like that. I've often listened to it again and again in the Kingdom Hall.
Even the some of the days of the week and months of the year are of pagan origin. Monday (the moon), March, (Roman war god) etc. Yet you use them I suppose.
tommotian 2 years ago
@Fabman94
"you are cliaming tha x-mas is STILL pagan even though the events and practices of x-mas is no longer used or linked to false worship."
Bible principles forbid Gods followers to use pagan practices in worship of God, we are told by God what is and what is not acceptable to him. God says he does not accept worhip the way the nations worship their gods, so take it up with him.
acerimmeh 2 years ago
@Fabman94
"You said it ' the way other nations worship THEIR gods' you ARE admitting that all christians outside of witnesses are worshipping a false god."
In context please fab
i said "God forbids his followers to worship HIM(GOD) the way other nations worshipped their gods."
I did not say they are worshipping false gods.
"boy you have a thick head"
I see you are still failing to follow your own advice
"why not use loving words of understanding?" Don't be hypocritical Fab.
acerimmeh 2 years ago
@Fabman94
"If you think you are innocent because you don't curse, then you are guilty of lying."
Fab this is a strawman argument. I made no such claim, therfore I cannot be lying.
Is making up what I am supposed to be thinking and then rubuking me for of any benifit, Really?
acerimmeh 2 years ago
@Fabman94
Merry x-mas! god still loves you.
Thank you for your kind sentiment, I think that is about the nicest thing you have addressed to me in all these posts.
I hope you have a great holiday, aswell.
acerimmeh 2 years ago
@Fabman94
"you keep indicating that others are using vulgar language, is that not crying"..."of course you are offended"
Once again you make an assumtion, now you know my feelings to do you.
This tells me a bit about you, if you believed that your abusive speech and the obcene name you called me would offend me, then shy did you do it?
By my words you have judged me to be "an ugly person on the inside". Yet I have not used offensive speech at all, so what do your words say about yourself?
acerimmeh 2 years ago
@Fabman94
"tell me what the celebration of x-mas that is considered false worship?
Google or wikipedia
origins of the christmas Tree.
origins of santa clause.
origins of christmas.
Bible principles from God forbid his followers to worship him the way other nations worshipped their gods.
"don't be surprised if even christian swear, it reality."
Col 3:8 instructs christians to put away abusive & obcene talk. Swearing & obusive speach are in "reality" a choice.
acerimmeh 2 years ago
@Fabman94
"why not use loving words of understanding?"
Allow me to quote some of your "loving words of understanding" you have used toward me.
"you are really delusional"
"you need to use your freaking brain"
"you are an idiot"
"you are more than a f*#@*g idiot!"
"...you are an ugly person on the inside"
Does this com accross as a bit hypocritical to you Fab?
perhaps you can take your own words and put them into practice.
acerimmeh 2 years ago
@Fabman94
"by stating that christian celebrate a pagan holiday is the same as condemning them to death."
These are your words not mine, I don't believe this statment is to be true at all, perhaps you believe it is the same, I do not, Only God is judge.
acerimmeh 2 years ago
@Fabman94
"please learn the definitions of words before you comment. my comments are not assumtions. i am not judging you, i am statingfacts based on your words."
I am stating fact based on your words too. You made "assumtions" to my intitions of posting here, and you assume I don't know the defintions of words i use.
You also deemed my heart to bad when you said I was "an ugly person on the inside", thats called being judgmental.
acerimmeh 2 years ago
@Fabman94
You view weedingrings as pagan, why do you still use them/
I never said I view them as pagan, I said I recognize they have pagan origins. They don't carry the same meaning as they did in pagan times, and they are not used as symbols in worship to God, like Christmas is, Ive already said this.
acerimmeh 2 years ago
@Fabman94 @Fabman94
"stop cying persecution."
Where have done this??? provide a quote please.
"if your reasoning direct people to conclude you are idiotic, then why be offended?
I'm not offended, people often use abuse when there arguments are weak, they attack the person instead of the argument.
"you are... saying...we are the pagans."
Please provide a quote were I made such a claim.
acerimmeh 2 years ago
@Fabman94
Btw fab, I am expecting more verbal insults and accusations if you don't have answers to the simple questions I have asked. I hope you prove me wrong.
acerimmeh 2 years ago
@Fabman94
"and your words show you are an ugly person on the inside."
Interesting, one only has to scroll down and read all the insults and accusations hurled at me, yet I did not so in return, but you judge ME to be a "ugly person on the inside."
acerimmeh 2 years ago
@Fabman94
"you have used deu 12:30-31 as proof of gods disproval of x-mas.thanks for sharing because i was not aware of christians burning their children offerings to false gods at x-mas times!"
Have you ever heard of bible principles? If God explicitly told the nations not to worship him how the surrounding pagan nations did, what makes you think he will accept later pagan worship in his name?
Btw you surprised me by your vulgar insult, I thought you were a Christian.
acerimmeh 2 years ago
@Fabman94
"ok, the rings are not holy but represent the union of marrage that is holy. why can't you undestand this?"
Understand this! This is exactly what I've been getting at, I agree with this statement. I was against the statement that 1914 made, that JW's view "rings as HOLY symbols...", that is not true.
"then why do witnesses wear them as proof of this holy union?"
because it is the custom of our culture, nothing more nothing less, it is NOT because we view the ring as "HOLY".
acerimmeh 2 years ago
@Fabman94
"maybe then you will understand the importance not to judge others."
1st you need to show me where I judged others 2nd I think you should take your own advice. The following statements prove my point.
"you are not here to learn about truths or lies, you are here to prove others wrong... you are not here to help anyone. you are self centered."
"...you are an ugly person on the inside."
Bit hypocritical don't you think fab?
acerimmeh 2 years ago
@Fabman94
"Rings and calendars ...are used in worship."
You make it sound like we use rings the way Catholics use crosses.
JW's do not use "rings in worship", that is not true
This statment of your is more accurate
"married couples wear rings to kingdom halls where they worship god."
This is true, but the ring itself is not used to worship God, it is simply worn to the place of worship. Same priciple applies to the calender.
Cont...
acerimmeh 2 years ago
...
Christmas and Easter on the other hand are used in direct worship to God, and that is strictly forbidden by God. (Deu 12:30-31)
acerimmeh 2 years ago
@Fabman94
"What makes Christmas pagan?"
Is that a trick question? I thought it was obvious.
"...who made up the rule that it is still pagan"
Jehovah did in Deu 12:30-31.
Does Gods word mean anything to you? If so you will understand after reading that scripture. If not I suppose you will continue to use insults to try and proove your point.
acerimmeh 2 years ago
@Fabman94
rings are in connection to marriage and marriage is holy.
Are you suggesting that because something is connected to Marriage, that is MUST also be holy or a holy symbol? Do you realise how many things are connected to marriage customs? Where does it stop, for JW's the only thing holy about marriage is the marraige itself, and I find it quite strange you and others feel the need to insult someone because of this.
acerimmeh 2 years ago
"And yes the faith I follow is perfect for me, it keeps me from reviling even when being reviled. "
Only a dumb broad would say that.
poconoporker 2 years ago
Now you are being disrespectful to the bible writer Peter & Jesus (1Peter 2:23). They are Peters words about Jesus.
You not happy unless you are being racist or insulting. It must be draining being filled with such rage all the time, I feel pity for you.
Hmmm, I can feel more racist and and angry insults heading my way lol
acerimmeh 2 years ago
After reading your comments I stand correct, you are an idiot. JW's double standards as always. You just love to play dumb or maybe you are just plain dumb. The faith you follow is perfect for you. God bless.
TheRealTruth1914 2 years ago
@TheRealTruth1914
You really have a bee in your bonnet don't you, All you can do is hurl insults, all I asked for is proof to your false claim, and of couse you have none, so you insult, childish, and your supposed to be 45 lol. I answered your questions, you answered none of mine and you accuse me of dodging questions.
And yes the faith I follow is perfect for me, it keeps me from reviling even when being reviled.
acerimmeh 2 years ago
TRT1914 has answered EVERY question! WTF are YOU talking about!?
Keep using that JW 'logic', FRAUD. lol!
poconoporker 2 years ago
Awake! of January 8, 2000. In the article entitled, A Balanced View of Popular Customs, they noted on pages 26-27, Although there may be reason to examine the origin of a particular custom, in some cases it is more important to consider what the custom means to people at the time and in the place where one NOW lives.
TheRealTruth1914 2 years ago
Comment removed
TheRealTruth1914 2 years ago
I never said the rings were Holy. I said they were holy symbols. They are directly connected with the holy arrangement of marrage. Yes, they are objects but they are used by JW's in the USA and you are trying to avoid the fact that they are from Pagan origins. You know this is true because you are trying to justify that many don't use them. If they were not pagan, then why are you trying to prove that it is not Scriptural? Then why not label them as pagan like you have about Christmas?
TheRealTruth1914 2 years ago
@TheRealTruth1914
"They are directly connected with the holy arrangement of marrage."
No they are not. If they were Adam would have given one to Eve. There are many examples of marriage in the Bible, I can think of none that had the exchange of rings. It is a later custom and does not need to be done to have Gods blessing.
As for the differnce between Christmas/Easter and other customs that have pagan origins, I have already covered that and don't feel like repeating myself again.
acerimmeh 2 years ago
@TheRealTruth1914
"I said they were holy symbols."
Like the cross is a holy symbol.
You know as well as I do that JW's do not have "holy symbols", ask a any JW what the wedding ring represents and they will never say it is a "holy symbol", btw you still haven't provided any proof to your claim.
"you are trying to avoid the fact that they(rings) are from Pagan origins."
I have already acknowledged there pagan origins among other things such as our calender. explaination is there.
acerimmeh 2 years ago
@TheRealTruth1914
"Then why not label them as pagan like you have about Christmas?"
The answer is in the articale you quoted. Wedding rings and calanders (both have pagan origins) are not used in worship to God, Christmas and Easter are used to worship God (Due 12:30-31).
After being an elder for 15 yrs, I'm surprised you don't already know the difference.
Tell me, do you now use Christmas and Easter as forms of worship to God?
acerimmeh 2 years ago
That's it bitch, keep posting. Disobey YOUR god, the WTS's law! : )
poconoporker 2 years ago
Did all christians condemn halloween? Or are some re-thinking this pagan celebration.
Haven't the churches of Christendom changed Easter to "Resurrection Sunday" and done away with their eggs and bunnies?
JAKEV25 2 years ago 2
I must say, you are an idiot. You need it to be written in black and white or you will not believe it. But of course, if the WTS says something, then it's law. Anyone with logic can understand the reasoning about the symbol of rings but you just plainly won't admit it. Anything that shows the hypocrisy of the WTS will be defended by idiots as yourself. If rings are NOT a symbol used as God's blessing, then why do JW use them? You are such a fake! Keep avoiding the question, you are good at that.
TheRealTruth1914 2 years ago
@TheRealTruth1914, So youve resorted to name calling, thats ok, it is a common reaction for people to do that when they are proved wrong.
You are mad because I won't admit to something that is not true so you chuck a little name calling episode, sad.
Rings were not used in there first marriage and they dont need to be used today, its that simple.
"You need it to be written in black and white or you will not believe it."
Yeah I'll just take your word for it shall I, LOL.
acerimmeh 2 years ago
You're a phony, fake and above a FRAUD. Keep following your unscripitual org that has a "governing body" that doesn't exist in the bible.
Australia sucks kangaroo sack! POS total wasteland!
poconoporker 2 years ago
Keep responding to APOSTATES!! You're a FRAUD! lol!! The WTS has TOLD you in not engaging with apostates and yet, you're here! LOL!
Keep posting PHONY!
poconoporker 2 years ago
You're not an idiot....you a FUCKING idiot.
poconoporker 2 years ago
Hi poconoporker, I see you are still making obscene and racist comments towards me, no doubt it is because of satans influence, I forgive you, here are some scriptures to help with that anger
Prov 14:30;Eph 4:26.
I remain concerned about your racist behavior toward other nations, you know God made everyone equal, no race is superior to another, not matter what an individual may think.
Anyway, I hope you have a great time over the holiday poconoporker.
Kind Regards AR
acerimmeh 2 years ago
In 1919, The Watchtower was teaching that the Piramids of Egipt were God's Witnesses of stone in the desert after the Bible. In 1928, Judge Rutherford changed this doctrine teaching now that the piramids of Egipt were not God's witnesses of stone in the desert, but rather, Satan's stone instrument in desert. ¿How can Jesús choose in 1919 the Watchtower as the true spiritual food provider, if 9 years after 1919, this doctrine was trow to the trush ?
lavasori 2 years ago
The Finished Mistery published in 1917 and presented by J.Rutherford that year, you can see in page 188 that Micheal the Archangel was the Pope of the Catholic Church of Rome and not Jesuschrist. The questíon is: ¿How can Jesus choose the Watchtower as his unique faithful Slave, due to the good quality of the spiritual food provided to household in 1919, if later, after 1919 this was changed, teaching that Michael was not to be the Pope, but rather Jesuschrist?
lavasori 2 years ago
I was 30 years old when I started serving as an elder, not seven. Outlines given to me by the writing committee for wedding vows and discourses was for my personal viewing as an ordained minister. The materials to the public are carefully worded as not to bring any doubt to their decisions when it comes to customs. Of course what you read in the WT is generalized. I am sharing my experience as an ex elder, if you accept it or not, that is not my purpose here.
TheRealTruth1914 2 years ago
"I was 30 years old when I started serving as an elder, not seven."
Thats obvious, I was making a point.
You stated, "but this has been changed from when I was an elder."
Obviously since that WT was long before you ever became an elder, the position on wedding rings was the same when you became one, hence your statment "this has been changed from when I was an elder" is in error.
And I can guarentee you the outline from the Society did not call wedding bands "HOLY".
acerimmeh 2 years ago
Do you know what Holy and Sacred mean?
Notice the description of rings: The circle, the basic shape of the vast majority of rings, is itself a central design in SACRED geometry. The open circle symbolizes WHOLENESS, COMPLETION.
TheRealTruth1914 2 years ago
So the circle is a sacred geomerty, but sacred to whom?
Does this mean donuts are sacred?
Nothing in the Bible or the WTS literature will support your claim that JW's use "rings as a HOLY symbol of Gods blessing". I have asked for proof, yet you still provide NONE.
acerimmeh 2 years ago
My words are based on YOUR faith, not mine. The society stressed the importance of what wedding rings signified in a marriage but then say it is not a requirement. This is the WTS reasoning, not mine. I'm only pointing out the inconsistent logic that they use. Keep defending a man made Organization, in the end you will find yourself where you started, nowhere.
TheRealTruth1914 2 years ago
I can understand that rings are a personal choice, but this has been changed from when I was an elder. It's no surprise that the WTS changes their views on matters when they are being attacked. When I married couples, I had outlines from the Society and it gave much importance to the rings. This is no longer the issue and I can understand it now. But the fact remains, if the rings are pagan, why do many JW's use them? Should it not be avoided completely? Changes are needed before accusations.
TheRealTruth1914 2 years ago
TheRealTruth1914 you are an enigma. On one hand you say
"Why would you not wear a wedding ring if you are married?"
"Rings are also a protection from getting into situations not appropriate for Christians. Do you not agree?
Then on the other you say
"But the fact remains, if the rings are pagan, why do many JW's use them? Should it not be avoided completely?"
Do you actually know what you believe yet?
acerimmeh 2 years ago
"I can understand that rings are a personal choice, but this has been changed from when I was an elder."
Lets put this claim to the test.
Your profile says you are 45, you were an elder for 15 years correct? That WT I quoted was from 1972, that means you were last an elder at the age of 7 and became an elder before you were born.
Or could it be that your claim was wrong?
"I had outlines from the Society and it gave much importance to the rings."
"gave much importance" does not mean "HOLY".
acerimmeh 2 years ago
@acerimmeh , "Rings are a protection" is the words used by the WTS for my Discourses on wedding ceremonies. Stop trying to take me off track by your accusations. I am not preaching, I am revieling the Hypocrisy of a Religion that allows Pagan items to be used and yet say it is an individuals conscious. This is the same reasoning about their doctrine of blood, you can't get a blood transfusion BUT an organ transplant is OK if you conscious is not bothered. Give me a break!
TheRealTruth1914 2 years ago
@TheRealTruth1914
"Rings are a protection" is the words used by the WTS for my Discourses on wedding ceremonies."
Right so does that mean they are "HOLY" as you claim JW's believe. No it doesn't. Your claim that JW's "use rings as HOLY symbols..." is false. I don't expect you to admit it, it does not suit your agenda.
acerimmeh 2 years ago
The apostle Paul gave an example of being everything to everyone to gain their favor. Why? Not to stumble anyone. Why would you not wear a wedding ring if you are married? Would this not stumble non married individuals, leading them to conclusions? Rings are also a protection from getting into situations not appropriate for Christians. Do you not agree? Do not merely base all your logic on what you read, use common sense.
TheRealTruth1914 2 years ago
"Why would you not wear a wedding ring if you are married?"
Are you now insisting that everyone must wear a wedding ring?
What if its not part of ones custom or tradition from where they are from? What if it goes against ones conscience?
There is nothing in the bible to suggest that one has to wear a wedding ring, that is simply your opinion wich you are of course entitled to, but that is all it is.
acerimmeh 2 years ago
@acerimmeh , Again you are supposing. I am talking about JW in the USA. I did not realize you are not from the States. Yes, customs and traditions play a part in the use of rings. You are also drawing conclusions and putting words in my mouth just as a good JW is taught to do, I comment your grasp of using WT tactics. I do not insist the use of rings, nor do I state it is Christian or in the Bible. You are losing sight of this discussion: Wedding rings are non Scriptural & yet JW still use them.
TheRealTruth1914 2 years ago
Marriage is a sacred institution arranged by God. Scriptures indicate that man will bond to his wife and no man can separate what God has yoked together. Do you know what Sacred means?Marriage is Sacred and everything used in connection with it is also Sacred. The WTS has found new light again by saying that the rings are not important. I have married about a dozen couples and the ring was always brought to light as a Sacred symbol of the bond of union between husband and wife.
TheRealTruth1914 2 years ago
"Marriage is a sacred institution arranged by God"
I agree
"everything used in connection with it is also Sacred."
I disagree
Is the viel sacred?
Is the white dress sacred?
Is the cake sacred?
Is the best man sacred?
The ONLY thing that we know is sacred is the Marraige between a man and a woman, anything beyond this is simply customs and traditions of men and theres nothing sacred about them.
cont...
acerimmeh 2 years ago
"The WTS has found new light again by saying that the rings are not important."
New light hey? That WT was from 1972, thats around 37 years ago.
All you have done is make claims, and yet you have proved no proof.
acerimmeh 2 years ago
@acerimmeh , you are avoiding the obvious. The rings are connected directly to the vows and what they symbolize. Your examples of the veil and the best man is very amusing :)
TheRealTruth1914 2 years ago
There is no amount of proof or reasoning that will ever get through to someone with WatchTower mentality. And WT mentality is not something to be praised for either to you JWs, it is something very horrid and wrong.
Mattrix0 2 years ago
You are either in or out. You can not make up your own rules. All JW that are married wear rings. It is under God's arrangements to be submissive to the authorities of our land. The rings are exchanged as a witness to all including God. If one decides not to use it afterward, then that is another story. To avoid any stumbling among other JW, they wear and display such rings.
TheRealTruth1914 2 years ago
"All JW that are married wear rings."
This is of couse is another false blanket statement
..."a wedding ring is by no means a Christian requirement. One Christian might decide not to wear a wedding ring, because of conscience, personal taste, cost, local custom, or some other reason....in the final analysis the decision is a personal one, to be made in accord with the conscientious views one holds."
-WT 72 1/15 Questions from readers.
acerimmeh 2 years ago
What would that answer be? has anybody been able to answer the direct question?
scooterbugs25 2 years ago
@scooterbugs25 The JWs are more comfortable with ad hominem, red herring, tu quoque and various other logical fallacies. I seriously doubt that any will really try to answer the question.
EvidenceMinistries 2 years ago
Oh......about your shirt? Got news for ya:
Christ has NEVER been in xmas. And never will be. That pagan holiday has nothing to do with him
JWinCT 2 years ago
@JWinCT Pagan holiday? Pagans don't worship Christ so obviously they do not celebrate CHRISTmas. Christians, on the other hand, ... ;-)
EvidenceMinistries 2 years ago
Neither do true Christians worship Christ. They know that the worldly holiday falsely based on his "supposed" birth in Dec. is just a false pagan holiday which comes in a nice, pretty, "christian" wrapper.
As I said......xmas is not for true Christians. And Jesus was never in it; never had anything to do with it. Just false religionists hypocritically claiming to follow him!!!
JWinCT 2 years ago
@JWinCT Are you saying that JWs previous to 1953 were NOT Christians? Why do I ask this? Because the WT taught that Jesus was to be worshiped until 1954. I can provide references to anyone who is interested.
EvidenceMinistries 2 years ago
Maybe....just maybe......jesus wasnt doing an inspection in 1918-1919!
Jesus was doing exactly what hes always done with the WT.....NOTHING!
escapethetower75 2 years ago 3
It goes to show that this NEW LIGHT bs is going to far sometimes......I guess that Jehovah is changing his mind...yeah that's it..its god's fault!.....Jehovah Witnesses are a joke, to be claming that they are the chosen one...ohhhh PLEASE!
SirBratGribbley 2 years ago
They are "inspired" by God only until they get a new president or change major doctrine, then it's "we're imperfect men trying to do God's will".. But like Russell said, "New light NEVER extinguishes old light, only adds to it". Guess they threw that belief out the window too..The "new light" extinguished it LOL
happie2befree 2 years ago 2
This is a point I use often with no results. JW's will always justify their actions and will never admitt being wrong.
TheRealTruth1914 2 years ago
It's because they're self-righteous, pompous, arrogant asses.
poconoporker 2 years ago
Protesant duplicity in action.
Would Martin Luther recongnize it today? Was Jesus supportive of the Catholic church for 100's of years and then against it in favor of Protestantism?
So now, he supports a completely different looking Protestant church?
Christendom has abandoned Daniel 12:4not just Pro. 4:18 (& every other Scripture that compares knowledge with light) and refuse to admit that anything has changed in their religion. I'm certain Martin Luther would condemn them today. JC too.
daliesfollies 2 years ago
Jesus doesn't endorse any man made church, protestant or Catholic. Jesus is the savior, and all who trust in Him are reborn and have eternal life. The church is all who have Jesus, not some organization run by man. I am neither protestant or Catholic, I am saved.
apologeticsman 2 years ago 6
Just because JWs back then still celebrated the pagan festival known as Christmas does not mean the slave class would fail inspection, they were imperfect men just like the apostles who made mistakes. What matters, is once they realised Christmas was steeped in false god pagan worship that is detestable to Jehovah and his Son, they abandoned the tradition in favour of pleasing God. It is the desire to follow Gods commands as opposed to beloved traditions of man is what Christ seen.
acerimmeh 2 years ago
Oh boy, using the easy answer scapegoat I see.
If they make a Law "we are moved by god"
If they make a Mistake.. "we are imperfect Humans"
C'mon, give me a fucking break acerimmeh.
poconoporker 2 years ago
acerimmeh, according to you, "imperfect men" made mistakes. Ok, did Jesus make a 'mistake' by choosing the JW's in 1919 when they were celebrating Christmas? He's perfect, no?
poconoporker 2 years ago
but that's just it, they claim to be perfect, just as the LDS and Catholic churches do. These "us only" organizations claim to be God's voice on earth, and their leaders holy prophets who are above scrutiny. So, if we find them blatantly in error, we can say truly and surely that they are NOT God's voice on earth.
apologeticsman 2 years ago 2
"they claim to be perfect"
Perhaps you can provide a quote where this "claim" is made.
"So, if we find them blatantly in error, we can say truly and surely that they are NOT God's voice on earth."
Is that so? Was not Israel Gods chosen nation? Did God immeadiatly abondon them when they constantly strayed? No, he did not.
We have done away with a terribly obvious pagan tradition while christendom embraces it and keeps promoting it, now that is a blatant error.
acerimmeh 2 years ago
acerimmeh, they do not claim to be perfect; however, they do claim that God is directing them to feed his flock...Why would God mislead these men if they were doing such? Wouldn't that make God a Liar? The bible claims the father of the lie is, right? Does that mean that rather than God directing this organization it is an angel that keeps transforming himself into light, to make it seem like God?
happie2befree 2 years ago
the statement above should say "The bible claims the father of the lie is Satan, right?
happie2befree 2 years ago
happie2befree
you are suggesting the people that God diercts will remain free from blemish, yet throughout scripture the opposite is seen. The JW's back then did not know Christmas was pagan festival detestable to God, the same way Saul did not know killing Christians was aswell, yet Jesus still Chose Saul. Upon realising it was the wrong thing to do Saul stopped, as did the JW's with Christmas.
acerimmeh 2 years ago
@acerimmeh, Saul started without knowledge of Jesus, but Russell had knowledge and claimed to be the descrete slave. What was his excuse?
TheRealTruth1914 2 years ago
"Saul started without knowledge of Jesus"
Is this a serious statement?
Are you sugesting Saul had no idea who the Christians whom he was persecuting thought was the messiah?
acerimmeh 2 years ago
Great! Keep worshiping an IMPERFECT god! lol!!
poconoporker 2 years ago
Your not making any sense and your disrepect for Jehovah is appauling.
acerimmeh 2 years ago