Also I just bought a new TV recently for use only with PC and according to some review it has 66ms input lag while in gaming-mode. I don't know (never mesured it) but it is kind of annoying while in desktop or gaming (FPS) but in other games (strategy or minecraft for example), programs and stuff you're tipically using a pc for it's not that noticable. I'm hoping that new mouse with 1ms response time would at least partially eliminate the problem because my Bluetooth mouse is not too fast.
All LCDs are rubbish really. TN - horrible color reproduction, VA - low response time, IPS super expensive (and not that great after all). But CRT is not the best way to go either. They are to big, to heavy, they consume lot's of power and are bad for your eyes. And they are small. If you're using CRT it's probably not bigger than 19", and 19 inches is not much.
When my Sony Trinitron P1110 died, I got a 19" LCD monitor and right away when I opened a game I noticed the input lag. Think I am going to order a used HP p1230 from ebay!
Rear Projection LCDs will always have this as well as the fact that you will lose ~1" from the border of the picture to account for the screen and the bezel.
This is the reason i still use a crt on my gaming rig. Decent priced LCD's(in my budget) are 5-20 ms response time. This is unacceptable for competitive gaming. 5 ms can make the difference. Viewing everything 5-20 ms late is like adding 5-20 ms to your ping. Why pay for a new pretty component if it will only hurt you.
I think I'm having a problem that relates to this while playing games. I always notice how a characters mouth isn't properly synced up with there voice. Or how thing visually just don't look as smooth and proper as they should. This problem really bugs me.
This happens to me, i have a PS3 and i am a FPS Player, and it's really annoying when you have this lag on your TV, specially when playing on multiplayer mode, you really need those 50 milliseconds.
I've heard that this problem is reduced if you're using a monitor that has a native resolution equal to the native resolution ov the signal source. Inotherwords, the Xbox 360 outputs its video feed natively at 720p. So, if you have a 768p monitor, you should have very little lag (less lag than if you had a 1080p monitor). If you have a true 720p monitor, you should have almost no lag whatsoever because the monitor doesn't have to process/scale the feed at all (because its a 1:1 ratio).
@TerminusCOBHC You forget one important thing; there's barely ANY 720/1080p games on any consoles. Most of them are running below 600p. Your console will therefore scale the resolution through your front buffer, causing a scaled image.
Input lag isn't a problem if you own a console, since most of the games are renedered at a low resolution.
@Swoop223 I completely agree with you on the issue ov there basically being no games on consoles that are actually legit 720p/1080p. I also agree with the statement that a lot ov the scaling process occurs on the console's end. That said, the statement that, "Input lag isn't a problem if you own a console" is completely false. The first HDTV I ever purchased I returned in less than 24 hours because the input lag on it was absolutely horrible (when playing on an Xbox 360) compared to my CRT.
@TerminusCOBHC But aren't you talking about early models in 2005-06? Yes there's still some latency issues with models even today. But if you a little bit more over a casual TV you will have just a few ms heavier vs a monitor. I'm glad you could return the TV, imagine the horror if you bought one only to buy a console/pc later on and realise the error :O
@Swoop223 No. The HDTV I bought was a Samsung $1200 LED TV (2010 model). Although the problem ov input lag was particularly severe on older DLP TVs, it still plagues newer models even today. Today's TV industry has completely turned its back on twitch players (including myself). Now, I have landed an older '09 Samsung LCD TV that, while it does have a small amount ov input lag, it works well enough for me to compensate. I'm a professional musician, so, I'm VERY sensitive to timing issues.
@TerminusCOBHC Well that's something new for me. Shame their QA doesn't go through the latency. Well the same could be said for severe ghosting and mural. Yes I understand why you'd want as little as possible when you're a professional.
The new LED samsung are very nice, too bad you had to rollback to a legacy unit.
I was bummed when I realised that game mode disables 100hz and sets it back to 50hz. and that you practically MUST play in game mode without the 100hz awesomeness because there is HUGE lag, way more than this video. my parents old 2008 samsung lcd has 100hz and playing games had no lag at all, with nice smooth motion. every tv now has a huge lag and cant play in 100hz.. unless someone knows a tv that can??
I spent a great deal of time researching this and bought the best TV I could for minimal display lag and my 55" LCD still lags a bit. For the most part it's okay, but I can't beat Mike Tyson's Punch-Out on my NES using it. I can't believe display technology has left gamers behind... all because the average schmuck is slow and can't tell.
my suggestion is to use what pro mlg players play on. obviously they wouldnt use a tv that would lag during tournaments. they use an Asus 23" monitor. they're pretty cheap as well. easy to hook up to xboxes with an hdmi cable. ill be buying one shortly.
I used this video to explain to a boob on [H]ardForum that LCD lag is very real, and is apparent to an observant user, not just "input lag receptive sensors".
Thanks. (To those who doubt, this shit's still extremely prevalent in the majority of LCDs sold.)
It's much worse when using old video games on a HDTV without any upscaler. I'd use a CRT, but the CRT I have has an annoying high pitched screeching noise whenever turned on.
crazy, I spent a lot of money to buy a monitor with extremely low input lag. according to reviews the monitor I have averages 5ms input lag vs a crt. It works pretty well but ghosting is still a pretty bad issue, even while using 120hz. Its the benq xl2410t.
If you want to test this on yourself. go to xbox marketplace and download avatarshowdown.Play it on crt then lcd.You will be amazed!!! I cannot beat it with my lcd and if i do it's by luck.
I was so happy when I got my new LCD - Lg... But, to be honest, I regret it!! My Call Of Duty skill has DROPPED sooo much! From being the one dominating, I can't even win a free for all match any more! I loose 95% of every 50/50 encounters, and I sort of Die without seeing any bullets! Its very frustrating! :(
i wish manufacturers cared about this... I can't tolerate any of the LCDs that I've tried. the delay drives me crazy for the games i play. Anyone have any good recommendations for screens with minimal delay but still decent quality?
@aggybong Your right but my parents had a 50inch Samsung plasma (they didn't had it for long like a week)
i played Xbox on it WITH Motion Plus on or whatever it's called and this always causes noticeable input lag, and it didn't had any input lag on that TV it played so good. Response was excellent like a LCD monitor.
I wish they still made new quality CRT sets. Apart from the weight and bulk I think they are superior in every way to LCD, especially when it comes to gaming.
I can see the CRT slightly faster but not as nicer a picture.
I'm a casual gamer and tend to game on consoles more but still play bad company 2 on pc with my custom built pc I made which is mid end and surprising plays bc 2. I still have a crt but I don't think it is necessary to use it. I have no idea how good it is anyway.
This is why I'm getting a plasma. By the way, that's not that bad for a LCD. My roomy has one that takes a good 0.25 sec from the time I move the joystick to when the crosshairs move on the screen.
i solve this problem by using a component cable but that means going out and spending 45-90 on a hdmi component but i have a lot of money so no worries
Just bought a 40 inch Sony Bravia and the input lag makes games unplayable.Not too bothered because mainly bought it for sports and films.Just hooked it back up to my Samsung T240 which is amazing for games.
@Tinhh There is no specification for this. It's more or less a crap-shoot and you have to look up reviews that check for it.
I believe the bulk of the delay comes from any post-processing the set has to do. Certain brands\sets have a 'game-mode' setting which sometimes disables as much post-processing as possible to get the input delay lower, but it doesn't always eliminate the problem entirely.
- You watch a lot of TV shows or play lots of video games with static images on the screen for extended periods of time, multiple days a week.
-You do a lot of daytime viewing in a room with windows lacking blinds, curtains or drapes — most LCD screens resist glare, although some high-performance models have screens that are nearly as reflective as plasmas.
-You like rich, warm colors and deep black levels.
-You'll be sitting off-axis when you watch or movies.
-you don't watch many TV shows or play video games with static images on the screen for more than a few hours at a time. The possibility of screen burn-in still exists for plasma TVs, though it's unlikely to happen with current models.
-You're able to control the amount of light in your viewing room, plas' reflect room light. distracting...
many top players in FPS, Fighting or any other type of genre that requires strict pin point accuracy button presses (even games like guitar hero) still regard CRT or old glass TVs as being the best performing sets out there. These small delays can be disastrous during high-level play where key press timings are absolutely critical. It can cost you an entire match just because your TV took a few millisecond to receive your input. MOST casual users will NEVER notice this issue tho.
that's how you know someone's good at cheating. when you're using a CRT at a high refresh rate on a high end rig with optimal settings and their internet ping is double yours or more, their wireless mouse has an 8ms response time of its own, and their LCD's response time as well.
@aolish yea i hate that, especially on the call of duty series games, i tried playin on my roommates brand new 1080p lcd tv and it sucked, i could never get used to it.. i just use an oldschool projection big screen tv and it plays fine with no screen lag
@aolish I can personally attest to this. In the past two weeks I went from an 4 year old 17" Sony LCD monitor, which had no lag/ghosting problems, to a Dynex 26" 720p TV which had no lag/ghosting problems (only complaint was pixel size when hooked up to pc), then I traded that in for a Insignia 26" 1080p tv and holy hell, major lag/ghosting problems. Problem is the LCD TV manufacturers don't put a response time on the box, like with monitors, usually because their times suck.
@nodnarb1982 my lg le5400 has 2.5-3ms, but it has nothing to do with input (vga, hdmi) lag. i have old lcd monitors with 10+ ms and they don't lag. i can play any game i want and see no difference compared to newer 3-5ms monitors.
@aolish Well there is some model of LCD that was made specifically for EVO tournaments and has a 1ms lag (not noticable at all) they are trying to make it 0 on the next model.
@aolish Actually, the problem with input lag is movement feedback. When aiming, you always compensate and move accordingly based on what you see, but adding latency significantly decreases how precise you can be if that feedback isn't there.
Rhythm games like GH are a different story; some games let you calibrate for latency, but many do not and that itself is a bad problem if you're using the TV as reference for timing instead of directly listening to the beat of the song and going from there.
LCDs are GARBAGE. CRTS are a billion times better and Plasmas are better too.
LCDS have HORRIBLE MOTION BLUR, Sample and Hold effect. HORRIBLE Interpolation Artifacts and soap opera effect with 120hz or 240hz. LCDs have CRAPPY millisecond response times while plasams have superior microsecond response times and CRTS have ULTIMATE nanosecond response times. LCDs are a JOKE. Worst Display Tech EVER. Now OLED or SED should be good unlike crappy LCDs.
Sad but true, they just don't make them (well they don't now but rewind back to 2003) like they used to. I know people with Trinitron TV's from the 80's that still work like a charm, yet I've heard of newer tubes dying within a couple of years. Still, I'd rather take the chance and soak up every last used/NOS CRT I can to make the most of them before they disappear and terribad LCDs take over.
Though I'm hopeful about OLED in terms of picture quality but input lag could still be a concern.
You're a bigger fool if you actually think that. ALL HD processors have lag, the only way to get past this is to take your system to the store with you and find a panel that doesn't have one that's a piece of shit.
If OLED screens start off laggy, sony certainly wouldn't know what the hell they're doing.
to the noob who commented that plasmas have no input lag.
PLASMAS HAVE THE SAME INPUT LAG ISSUES AS LCDS. THEY ARE NOT IMMUNE.
there are LCDs with zero input lag but they are very few and far between. One is an LG 22" W2252TQ-PF. Its still not a very widely publicised issue but there are sites on the web that test for this.
Do LCD Projection TV's lag like this? Just wondering cause i'm thinking about getting a flat panel LCD over my old Sony LCD projection and want to know if it'll be better/worse.
I like my LCD. Playing only felt slightly uncomfortable right after switching from CRT, but now I'm pretty much used to it. I can't say I always notice the input lag, but I can feel it in the overall controllability slightly. If you're EXTREME GAYMAN, you should maybe get a CRT, as you might also find a ~188 Hz refresh rate useful. All in all, in my opinion, the upsides beat the downsides.
@aggybong depends on the maker, several models have lag time so low it's only a frame behind a crt. (meaning unless you view it in slow motion or use a timer, you won't notice it at all.)
Two-year update: Input lag is still a significant issue plaguing LCD panels and doesn't seem to be leaving any time soon.
On a lighter note, Dell's new U2312HM has been clocked at a 0.6ms lag average, an amazing number for LCDs in general before taking in to account that it is an E-IPS panel.
TN panels are by far the worst displays available in all aspects of display quality. They have 2 things in their favor: Response time, and they're cheap. An IPS or PVA panel is vastly superior in terms of image quality compared to a TN panel, they just cost 2-3x as much and the fastest you will find will be around 16 ms.
Right, but they're LIQUID crystals. They can display a fluid image with far less tear than a CRT as far as refresh rates go. You can put an LCD on any refresh rate higher than 50 and it will display it fluidly without as many tears as, say, a CRT monitor with a 120 refresh rate because it can't display it fluidly enough with the electron gun behind it.
I played UT 2004 on very HIGH skill with a CRT with a HZ range of 150 +g5 and pro cloth pad
its direct as it can be every nanomove will be redirected to the view
with my new 22 inch lcd hd tv screen from LG its so laggy the game ut 2004 is unplayable!!!! UNPLAYABLE!!!i went to HIGH skills to low!!!!!
! every move has a ENORMOUS delay u cant hit shock balls anymore and cand follow targets1!!! its also very confusing for your brains so you cant play every single fps anymore seriously
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
Refresh rates don't matter on an LCD monitor because, as you might know by the name, LCD monitors have liquid crystals that are illuminated to show the colours on the screen. Since it's technically "liquid", it can fluidly display an image normally at a refresh rate higher than 45 or so hertz. The CRT's refresh rate kind of sucks because no matter how high you put it, you'll always get the screen tearing effects because it's not displaying it fluidly. LCDs' delays usually aren't a problem though
An LCD doesn't get its name because it displays "fluidly". It gets its name because of the liquid and the crystal. And you WILL get tearing because the internal circuitry displays using a vertical refresh rate to remain compatible with display standards.
For gaming consoles or movies where games are already super laggy, lcds aren't a bad option. But if your going to set around and play quake 3-4 at 60fps+, there are quite the laggy screens out there.
response time has nothing to do with it, were talking about input lag, which is processing time by the microchip rendering the image in the pannel assembly
response time is the time the pixels take to change (2ms to 25 on older ones) but this is more likely input lag which is the lag from when the ps3 etc sends the signal till when the monitor starts displaying it. I had to switch from my great looking westinghouse to a benq which has higher resolution but doesn't look as good at 720 color wise and sharpness because it only has something like 1.9ms input lag and after using it, the other one is hard to focus your eyes on fast moving objects.
What brand/model/size LCD is that? And same question for the CRT. Just because in all fairness it's good to know exactly what we're dealing with as their is wide variance in LCD lag (and for CRT I'm mostly just wondering about the size).
Oh yeah, and actually being able to use more than 25% of the space on your computer desk is a big plus. I think when I moved my big old CRT off my desk, I actually found a couple of bucks worth of forgotten change underneath it. Bonus!
I think it's more a matter of personal preference now than "CRT is 1337, LCD is ghey". Now that I am used to LCD (my first 15" LCD looked funny for awhile too), I don't think I would ever go back. I find that you also get accustomed to any lag over a CRT and subconsciously compensate. Plus, just play a game on 1920x1200 and tell me it doesn't look awesome.
I hate you so much right now, lol. I have never heard of a 24" wide CRT computer monitor, but it sounds pretty frickin' cool. btw, what kind of a rig do you have to run at such a ridiculously high rez?
Anyways, I still stand by my judgement. It is more personal taste than lag, contrast ratio etc. at this point, unless you are tourney gaming or something. I bet somebody who owns a 30" LCD at 2560x1600 would say "mine's better, it's bigger" even though your image looks 100 times cleaner.
Yeah exactly, to put it in perspective, Lucas Arts, Pixar and the guys who made 300 all use this monitor. Im also not tied to native resolution.
I run 8800GT 512MB, 2GB Kingston HyperX 1066Mhz, Q6600 and a GA-P35-DS3P.
Only game I cant do that is Crysis but at least I can just drop the res and keep the eye candy on unlike the 30" LCD that needs everything set to bottom or play in non native res and use a mashed up display.
Also I didnt know they existed until like 2 weeks agoeither
If you want to try both CRT and LCD out, go to best buy. they have 14 day return no restocking fee policy. is what i am doing right now 2232bw samsung.
OLED is also 238947298374 times more expensive and lasts 1/239084209874 times as long before it dies. Its also subject to the same problems as LCD's in terms of resolutions etc whereas SED is not.
I bought a 24" 16:10 BenQ with DVI-Dual/HDMI/component/composite/s-vid inputs, and I have never looked back. 6 months on and not a dead pixel in sight, the only problem I have with it is that the de-interlacing sucks, even 1080i artifacts a little, and scaling from 480p is tolerable and 720p is pretty decent. In fact, whenever I see someone using a CRT, even a high end 19 or 21 incher, the colors and everything look weird to me.
Shop around, and actually try before you buy. There are many cheap LCD tv's out there but unfortunatly you do pay for what you get and cheaper sets cut corners and wont perform as well. I just bought a 40" sony LCD tv and its awesome running my 360!
Looks almost like my Samusung 215TW, where I am having exactly same input lag. Bought in april 2007 and still no solution for input lag, OSD contains nothing usable. Definitely not a problem with PC. Already seeking a buyer for this expensive crap.
I did great amount of research, i was aware of input lag, but i found numerous method which claimed that they will be able to remove/reduce input lag. Unfortunately, none of them worked, so i am stuck. At the time of purchase, there was nothing better in non PWA/MVA area than this. My previous monitor was LCD with TN techonology abd I was so unhappy with it, so i sweared to myself that i will never buy an TN LCD again.
I have seen this happen with my friends LCDs. I have a standard tube TV at home and I play many 2d fighting games with my friend and I feel no lag at all. But when I go to his house, I mess up all my combos because of timing since he has an LCDs. I've experienced this on some of my other friend's LCDs, some not so noticeable, but some I swear have a half second lag.
CRT is vastly superior to ANY LCD screen. Fact. LCD dont refresh the entire screen, instead they 'morph' the image pixel by pixel. this is why the images have delay ( lag ) and moving images look poor and ALWAYS will, due to the technology. CRT refresh the entire screen, so you always get a brand new image, created in one go, rather than 1000s of pixels, which gives a blurry look. CRT have true blacks, and true colour, unlike LCD colour, which looks artificial Oh, and no grid fixed res.
Definitley some sort of lag going on. But the demo doesnt state if any video processing is enabled on the LCD screen ( pixel smoothing, antialisaing etc ). These could introduce a delay due to buffering effects. Try the demo with the signal processing switched off.
If i use my Trinitron 19" crt on lan and the others use LCD (hate them) i will problably kill them all because of their Liquid piece of shit delay, i know that my screen is faster than lcd owners, i´ll kill them in Counterstike too.
TomCat2800: You're talking about pixel response time. Not the same (but possibly related to) the phenomenon shown above. Check out Wikipedia articles on "Input lag" and "Response time".
I doubt anyone here can appreciate it unless they are a fast-pace FPS player (such as yourself). Just like when people don't believe that there is a difference between 85fps and 125fps.
Pretty much the only time anyone will ever recognize this tiny difference is if they play very competitive, fast-paced FPS games (UT2k4, Q3, Warsow, etc).
the question is what model lcd is this? without that imformation this test is useless. if it is obsolete cheap or running non-native resolution than it is a bogus demonstration.
you guys make me feel really good. I heard a few things about how CRT was better so I went out and bought a $700.00 21in. viewsonic monitor, it's nice to know I made the right choice. I also notice when watching a picture of a sunset that the contrast ratio is a lot better as well. On a CRT it looks like a light bulb shining through a sheet of paper whereas on an LCD it looks like an egg yolk on a sheet of paper. that's my 2¢
NOTE: This lag has nothing to do with the response time. As you see there is no ghosting, so the response time is good.
These "primarily" PVA and S-PVA screens seem to have a delay between the recieving of an image and the display of that image. In some cases it is reported to be so bad even sound in movies seems off sync!
Lag or not, LCD's are great because the whole screen is always 'there' at all times (not scanned) BUT scanning can have avantages too-if you are modding an old plong machine into a audio display...
modern? you mean high end crts handle that refresh. cheap consumer ones might reach 100hz on a very low laughable resolution, but more like 75hz at a decent resolution. no free lunch.
Also I just bought a new TV recently for use only with PC and according to some review it has 66ms input lag while in gaming-mode. I don't know (never mesured it) but it is kind of annoying while in desktop or gaming (FPS) but in other games (strategy or minecraft for example), programs and stuff you're tipically using a pc for it's not that noticable. I'm hoping that new mouse with 1ms response time would at least partially eliminate the problem because my Bluetooth mouse is not too fast.
Matticitt 10 hours ago
All LCDs are rubbish really. TN - horrible color reproduction, VA - low response time, IPS super expensive (and not that great after all). But CRT is not the best way to go either. They are to big, to heavy, they consume lot's of power and are bad for your eyes. And they are small. If you're using CRT it's probably not bigger than 19", and 19 inches is not much.
Matticitt 10 hours ago
When my Sony Trinitron P1110 died, I got a 19" LCD monitor and right away when I opened a game I noticed the input lag. Think I am going to order a used HP p1230 from ebay!
WizardsMagic007 3 weeks ago
Rear Projection LCDs will always have this as well as the fact that you will lose ~1" from the border of the picture to account for the screen and the bezel.
thegreatcerebral 1 month ago
This is the reason i still use a crt on my gaming rig. Decent priced LCD's(in my budget) are 5-20 ms response time. This is unacceptable for competitive gaming. 5 ms can make the difference. Viewing everything 5-20 ms late is like adding 5-20 ms to your ping. Why pay for a new pretty component if it will only hurt you.
rich1051414 1 month ago
I cant see it because my monitor is lagging :D
dweem2009able 2 months ago
@dweem2009able lol lag power!
GameYang360 1 month ago
THANK YOOOOOU!
mickyd110011 2 months ago
Now this explains why everybody calls me a noooob.... o.O
supadupamadafaka 2 months ago
This explains everything....now I know why sometimes audio lags behind video.
SilvaSteve2011 2 months ago
I think I'm having a problem that relates to this while playing games. I always notice how a characters mouth isn't properly synced up with there voice. Or how thing visually just don't look as smooth and proper as they should. This problem really bugs me.
SAHLISS 3 months ago
This happens to me, i have a PS3 and i am a FPS Player, and it's really annoying when you have this lag on your TV, specially when playing on multiplayer mode, you really need those 50 milliseconds.
Enmanuel248 3 months ago
I've heard that this problem is reduced if you're using a monitor that has a native resolution equal to the native resolution ov the signal source. Inotherwords, the Xbox 360 outputs its video feed natively at 720p. So, if you have a 768p monitor, you should have very little lag (less lag than if you had a 1080p monitor). If you have a true 720p monitor, you should have almost no lag whatsoever because the monitor doesn't have to process/scale the feed at all (because its a 1:1 ratio).
TerminusCOBHC 4 months ago
@TerminusCOBHC You forget one important thing; there's barely ANY 720/1080p games on any consoles. Most of them are running below 600p. Your console will therefore scale the resolution through your front buffer, causing a scaled image.
Input lag isn't a problem if you own a console, since most of the games are renedered at a low resolution.
This is more a problem on pC
Also all console mp games have aim assit.
Swoop223 3 months ago
@Swoop223 I completely agree with you on the issue ov there basically being no games on consoles that are actually legit 720p/1080p. I also agree with the statement that a lot ov the scaling process occurs on the console's end. That said, the statement that, "Input lag isn't a problem if you own a console" is completely false. The first HDTV I ever purchased I returned in less than 24 hours because the input lag on it was absolutely horrible (when playing on an Xbox 360) compared to my CRT.
TerminusCOBHC 3 months ago
@TerminusCOBHC But aren't you talking about early models in 2005-06? Yes there's still some latency issues with models even today. But if you a little bit more over a casual TV you will have just a few ms heavier vs a monitor. I'm glad you could return the TV, imagine the horror if you bought one only to buy a console/pc later on and realise the error :O
Swoop223 3 months ago
@Swoop223 No. The HDTV I bought was a Samsung $1200 LED TV (2010 model). Although the problem ov input lag was particularly severe on older DLP TVs, it still plagues newer models even today. Today's TV industry has completely turned its back on twitch players (including myself). Now, I have landed an older '09 Samsung LCD TV that, while it does have a small amount ov input lag, it works well enough for me to compensate. I'm a professional musician, so, I'm VERY sensitive to timing issues.
TerminusCOBHC 3 months ago
@TerminusCOBHC Well that's something new for me. Shame their QA doesn't go through the latency. Well the same could be said for severe ghosting and mural. Yes I understand why you'd want as little as possible when you're a professional.
The new LED samsung are very nice, too bad you had to rollback to a legacy unit.
Thanks for sharing your story.
Swoop223 3 months ago
I was bummed when I realised that game mode disables 100hz and sets it back to 50hz. and that you practically MUST play in game mode without the 100hz awesomeness because there is HUGE lag, way more than this video. my parents old 2008 samsung lcd has 100hz and playing games had no lag at all, with nice smooth motion. every tv now has a huge lag and cant play in 100hz.. unless someone knows a tv that can??
xIAMDAVEx 4 months ago
I spent a great deal of time researching this and bought the best TV I could for minimal display lag and my 55" LCD still lags a bit. For the most part it's okay, but I can't beat Mike Tyson's Punch-Out on my NES using it. I can't believe display technology has left gamers behind... all because the average schmuck is slow and can't tell.
jidar 5 months ago
¡Long live CRTs!
ReiMomo 6 months ago 8
What are some brands/models of LCDs that have no input lag?
fishfrog90 6 months ago
I heard that the IPS Displays do not have this problem
Trofixoo 6 months ago
@Trofixoo IPS displays have even more input lag and ghosting.
RenegadeFury 5 months ago
fuck the google tv.
suchahipster 6 months ago
i have that problem
ericktwelve 7 months ago
my suggestion is to use what pro mlg players play on. obviously they wouldnt use a tv that would lag during tournaments. they use an Asus 23" monitor. they're pretty cheap as well. easy to hook up to xboxes with an hdmi cable. ill be buying one shortly.
xUSxMARINEx 7 months ago
I used this video to explain to a boob on [H]ardForum that LCD lag is very real, and is apparent to an observant user, not just "input lag receptive sensors".
Thanks. (To those who doubt, this shit's still extremely prevalent in the majority of LCDs sold.)
wyleepirate 9 months ago
@wyleepirate ""input lag receptive sensors"? That's hilarious. Next he's going to be telling us that human eyes run at 60 frames per second.
FetaCheese222 8 months ago
It's much worse when using old video games on a HDTV without any upscaler. I'd use a CRT, but the CRT I have has an annoying high pitched screeching noise whenever turned on.
FetaCheese222 11 months ago
@FetaCheese222 Agreed...I've had this problem for years.
I haaaaaaaaaaaate HDTV's.
Doodorz 9 months ago
crazy, I spent a lot of money to buy a monitor with extremely low input lag. according to reviews the monitor I have averages 5ms input lag vs a crt. It works pretty well but ghosting is still a pretty bad issue, even while using 120hz. Its the benq xl2410t.
CPL337 11 months ago
Pause at 0:54
That's probably the greatest example in the video. In the crt, the rocket is already fired. In the lcd, nothing.
woodyfly 1 year ago
If you want to test this on yourself. go to xbox marketplace and download avatarshowdown.Play it on crt then lcd.You will be amazed!!! I cannot beat it with my lcd and if i do it's by luck.
remixslider2 1 year ago
Over 4 years later and LCD TV's are laggier than ever. Sad sad sad.
coolkev99 1 year ago 5
@coolkev99 Because they make them cheap and sell them high.
S0ryiu 1 year ago
I was so happy when I got my new LCD - Lg... But, to be honest, I regret it!! My Call Of Duty skill has DROPPED sooo much! From being the one dominating, I can't even win a free for all match any more! I loose 95% of every 50/50 encounters, and I sort of Die without seeing any bullets! Its very frustrating! :(
thomandy 1 year ago
Comment removed
thomandy 1 year ago
@guitardude2159
smart one? it was just a joke...I was messing around....da?
fan4nintendo 1 year ago
the lag kinda looked the same to me on both monitors .. maybe its because of the game being used
Stitch2333 1 year ago
Dam thats bad lag.
1Equinox1 1 year ago
i wish manufacturers cared about this... I can't tolerate any of the LCDs that I've tried. the delay drives me crazy for the games i play. Anyone have any good recommendations for screens with minimal delay but still decent quality?
huntman1412 1 year ago
living in the past is in now
NeoTStyle 1 year ago
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Um...600hz HDTVs anyone? :D
fan4nintendo 1 year ago
@fan4nintendo A higher refresh rate won't fix input lag.
aggybong 1 year ago 54
@aggybong what will? I mean what to look for in technical specifications, response time?
Str8representing 1 year ago
@aggybong Your right but my parents had a 50inch Samsung plasma (they didn't had it for long like a week)
i played Xbox on it WITH Motion Plus on or whatever it's called and this always causes noticeable input lag, and it didn't had any input lag on that TV it played so good. Response was excellent like a LCD monitor.
s1gnex 8 months ago
@fan4nintendo I face palmed.
wyleepirate 9 months ago
I just bought a 46" 1080p Samsun LCD, it's a 120hz, and has "Game mode" would I suffer bad lag?
BishopRealTalk98 1 year ago
@BishopRealTalk98 It wont be as bad as what is demonstrated in this video.
jaw2floor 1 year ago
I wish they still made new quality CRT sets. Apart from the weight and bulk I think they are superior in every way to LCD, especially when it comes to gaming.
MOSTechnology 1 year ago
DUH DUH DUH DUH GUH UH UH YEAH DUH DUH .
Thats all I hear.
I can see the CRT slightly faster but not as nicer a picture.
I'm a casual gamer and tend to game on consoles more but still play bad company 2 on pc with my custom built pc I made which is mid end and surprising plays bc 2. I still have a crt but I don't think it is necessary to use it. I have no idea how good it is anyway.
Avataryoutuification 1 year ago
i've heard alot of people using vga inputs over hdmi because it decreases the input lag, but it also decreases the quality of the image ;( .... :S
Schmidteren 1 year ago
This is why I'm getting a plasma. By the way, that's not that bad for a LCD. My roomy has one that takes a good 0.25 sec from the time I move the joystick to when the crosshairs move on the screen.
fasthonda 1 year ago
i solve this problem by using a component cable but that means going out and spending 45-90 on a hdmi component but i have a lot of money so no worries
wirewolf45 1 year ago
@wirewolf45 tell me more about that
sc3nt360 1 year ago
I have that problem!
What lcd does not have delay? Can anyone suggest me one PLASE?
Mendekmex 1 year ago
Just bought a 40 inch Sony Bravia and the input lag makes games unplayable.Not too bothered because mainly bought it for sports and films.Just hooked it back up to my Samsung T240 which is amazing for games.
andykm99 2 years ago
i just bought a new tv and i have a but of lag i think i just need to get used to it :S
Djjon45 2 years ago
What specs would a lcd need to have no input lag?
Tinhh 2 years ago
@Tinhh There is no specification for this. It's more or less a crap-shoot and you have to look up reviews that check for it.
I believe the bulk of the delay comes from any post-processing the set has to do. Certain brands\sets have a 'game-mode' setting which sometimes disables as much post-processing as possible to get the input delay lower, but it doesn't always eliminate the problem entirely.
aggybong 1 year ago 12
@aggybong read reviews that cover this aspect" where do i find that?
what monitor do you recomend.but led one
sanSNAI 1 year ago
@aggybong i've tried game mode in my lg le5400 but it doesn't do anything.
GarbageState 1 year ago
Im getting a new tv very soon, what brand would I need to have no input lag?
MeanestBean2 2 years ago
sony samsung sharp (i have a very nice toshiba, which doesnt lag but you have to be careful)
R3cruited 2 years ago
An LCD TV might be for you if:
- You watch a lot of TV shows or play lots of video games with static images on the screen for extended periods of time, multiple days a week.
-You do a lot of daytime viewing in a room with windows lacking blinds, curtains or drapes — most LCD screens resist glare, although some high-performance models have screens that are nearly as reflective as plasmas.
-Low power consumption is a priority.
dinmagic 2 years ago 2
A plasma TV might be for you if:
-You like rich, warm colors and deep black levels.
-You'll be sitting off-axis when you watch or movies.
-you don't watch many TV shows or play video games with static images on the screen for more than a few hours at a time. The possibility of screen burn-in still exists for plasma TVs, though it's unlikely to happen with current models.
-You're able to control the amount of light in your viewing room, plas' reflect room light. distracting...
dinmagic 2 years ago 3
many top players in FPS, Fighting or any other type of genre that requires strict pin point accuracy button presses (even games like guitar hero) still regard CRT or old glass TVs as being the best performing sets out there. These small delays can be disastrous during high-level play where key press timings are absolutely critical. It can cost you an entire match just because your TV took a few millisecond to receive your input. MOST casual users will NEVER notice this issue tho.
aolish 2 years ago 35
So true, I played Halo 3 on my friend's plasma TV and I noticed input lag. My friend didn't notice it at all!
BuyAccount 2 years ago
bcuz ur friend don't see this video yet that why he doesnt know....
KLIA91 2 years ago
that's how you know someone's good at cheating. when you're using a CRT at a high refresh rate on a high end rig with optimal settings and their internet ping is double yours or more, their wireless mouse has an 8ms response time of its own, and their LCD's response time as well.
peoplez129 1 year ago
@aolish yea i hate that, especially on the call of duty series games, i tried playin on my roommates brand new 1080p lcd tv and it sucked, i could never get used to it.. i just use an oldschool projection big screen tv and it plays fine with no screen lag
JaredProject 1 year ago
@aolish I can personally attest to this. In the past two weeks I went from an 4 year old 17" Sony LCD monitor, which had no lag/ghosting problems, to a Dynex 26" 720p TV which had no lag/ghosting problems (only complaint was pixel size when hooked up to pc), then I traded that in for a Insignia 26" 1080p tv and holy hell, major lag/ghosting problems. Problem is the LCD TV manufacturers don't put a response time on the box, like with monitors, usually because their times suck.
nodnarb1982 1 year ago
@nodnarb1982 my lg le5400 has 2.5-3ms, but it has nothing to do with input (vga, hdmi) lag. i have old lcd monitors with 10+ ms and they don't lag. i can play any game i want and see no difference compared to newer 3-5ms monitors.
GarbageState 1 year ago
@aolish Well there is some model of LCD that was made specifically for EVO tournaments and has a 1ms lag (not noticable at all) they are trying to make it 0 on the next model.
S0ryiu 1 year ago
@aolish
i have that exact problem ANYONE know how to fix it PLEASE?
ConZeeFC 7 months ago
@ConZeeFC get a low ms response time monitor
Dp153 7 months ago
@aolish Actually, the problem with input lag is movement feedback. When aiming, you always compensate and move accordingly based on what you see, but adding latency significantly decreases how precise you can be if that feedback isn't there.
Rhythm games like GH are a different story; some games let you calibrate for latency, but many do not and that itself is a bad problem if you're using the TV as reference for timing instead of directly listening to the beat of the song and going from there.
coasteragent99 2 months ago
Except buying another monitor, are there any other instant solutions for this delay problem?
autooo13242424 2 years ago
excellent jumping, defrag 4 eva
jimday666 2 years ago
LCDs are GARBAGE. CRTS are a billion times better and Plasmas are better too.
LCDS have HORRIBLE MOTION BLUR, Sample and Hold effect. HORRIBLE Interpolation Artifacts and soap opera effect with 120hz or 240hz. LCDs have CRAPPY millisecond response times while plasams have superior microsecond response times and CRTS have ULTIMATE nanosecond response times. LCDs are a JOKE. Worst Display Tech EVER. Now OLED or SED should be good unlike crappy LCDs.
Sal30 2 years ago
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Yeah, that must be why so many people buy LCDs. How many gamers do you see with CRTs?
123IOWNALL321 2 years ago
Thats only becase they are smaller, lighter (weight), crisper image, no radiation. And all you can find in the stores are LCDs.
furikakez 2 years ago
@furikakez Radiation? I wasn't away CRT's were radioactive 0_o
PandaBasher 2 years ago
Ok, where could you a CRT with resolution of 1920x1200 that can fit on your desk and costing less than US$1000.
Well I can't, so what am I suppose to do? (given the current Plasma screens have very bad input delay)
When nothing else being offer but you are sick of the 17"CRT, then LCDs are a good go-between.
By all means, it's your freedom to stay with CRT or whatever but there is 'need and demand'. So wakeup to the real world.
P.S. I'm still waiting for SED to arrive. Go gaming!
Govski 2 years ago
This is not a test, and children's toys.
edgoogl 2 years ago
It's too bad input lag doesn't get listed prominently in advertised specs. It's an issue that needs more press.
I was happy with traditional CRTs but I don't trust the build quality on them anymore. Seems the newer ones are problematic.
My last CRT was a Sony Trinitron, it started beautiful but rapidly became a joke. Sister's Samsung didn't last either.
The heat cycling on CRTs requires good build quality, which even the "reputable" manufacturers seem to suck at now.
gdement 3 years ago
Sad but true, they just don't make them (well they don't now but rewind back to 2003) like they used to. I know people with Trinitron TV's from the 80's that still work like a charm, yet I've heard of newer tubes dying within a couple of years. Still, I'd rather take the chance and soak up every last used/NOS CRT I can to make the most of them before they disappear and terribad LCDs take over.
Though I'm hopeful about OLED in terms of picture quality but input lag could still be a concern.
m0pX 3 years ago
LCD technology is a joke. You will have no use for your LCDs when OLED tech comes out.
alecnemcova17 3 years ago
You're a bigger fool if you actually think that. ALL HD processors have lag, the only way to get past this is to take your system to the store with you and find a panel that doesn't have one that's a piece of shit.
If OLED screens start off laggy, sony certainly wouldn't know what the hell they're doing.
voltz15 3 years ago 3
LED's so far have WORSE input lag than LCD's.
Good fight, you tried.
camhottylover 2 years ago
hie great video! I wonder if you know the input lag time on the 42LG5000?
manfadat 3 years ago
to the noob who commented that plasmas have no input lag.
PLASMAS HAVE THE SAME INPUT LAG ISSUES AS LCDS. THEY ARE NOT IMMUNE.
there are LCDs with zero input lag but they are very few and far between. One is an LG 22" W2252TQ-PF. Its still not a very widely publicised issue but there are sites on the web that test for this.
h4rb1ng3r 3 years ago 4
Do LCD Projection TV's lag like this? Just wondering cause i'm thinking about getting a flat panel LCD over my old Sony LCD projection and want to know if it'll be better/worse.
halorocka888 3 years ago
I like my LCD. Playing only felt slightly uncomfortable right after switching from CRT, but now I'm pretty much used to it. I can't say I always notice the input lag, but I can feel it in the overall controllability slightly. If you're EXTREME GAYMAN, you should maybe get a CRT, as you might also find a ~188 Hz refresh rate useful. All in all, in my opinion, the upsides beat the downsides.
Ecalypse 3 years ago
Also, pretty much the only time when I notice the input lag, is when I hit the trigger.
Ecalypse 3 years ago
massive lag! my samsung 40" tv is the same. BE WARNED LOTS OF SAMSUNG TVS WILL LAG AND MAKE GAMING A PILE OF SHIT
warlockboyburns 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
LCDs SUCK, Plasma's way better and as fast as CRT.
Sal30 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Good thing that technology has evolved 2 years ahead since the video was added.
unap16 3 years ago
Sure LCD technology has evolved, but even the highest end sets still have this issue. It has NOT been universally fixed.
aggybong 3 years ago 16
To be honest, I am not extremely anal about it and hence for me and for most the current gen LCDs are truly fine.
unap16 3 years ago
@aggybong depends on the maker, several models have lag time so low it's only a frame behind a crt. (meaning unless you view it in slow motion or use a timer, you won't notice it at all.)
S0ryiu 1 year ago
@unap16 For TV's, the problem has actually gotten worse.
coolkev99 1 year ago
@unap16
Two-year update: Input lag is still a significant issue plaguing LCD panels and doesn't seem to be leaving any time soon.
On a lighter note, Dell's new U2312HM has been clocked at a 0.6ms lag average, an amazing number for LCDs in general before taking in to account that it is an E-IPS panel.
xTheProphetMohammedx 4 months ago
Yea the lag is so bad on my lcd that I cant play guitar hero or resident evil anymore...
L0Ryuzaki 3 years ago
I cant tell the difference
slaterking1000 3 years ago
all the pro gamers say they bring a little tube tv with them. Also computer lcd's dont have the chip in them that cause the lag
H1shman 3 years ago
TN panels do. Those are usually the monitors that have the best contrast, colors and sharpness.
latuman 3 years ago
TN panels are by far the worst displays available in all aspects of display quality. They have 2 things in their favor: Response time, and they're cheap. An IPS or PVA panel is vastly superior in terms of image quality compared to a TN panel, they just cost 2-3x as much and the fastest you will find will be around 16 ms.
nnubb 3 years ago
Right, but they're LIQUID crystals. They can display a fluid image with far less tear than a CRT as far as refresh rates go. You can put an LCD on any refresh rate higher than 50 and it will display it fluidly without as many tears as, say, a CRT monitor with a 120 refresh rate because it can't display it fluidly enough with the electron gun behind it.
123IOWNALL321 3 years ago
lol ur dumb
snarfbot 2 years ago
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hmm LCD monitor with a couple ms's of lag or a ugly ass CRT? i think ill stick with a LCD thnx
tracidtrax 3 years ago
its not just couple. They won't say the input lag, which can be ten times bigger than the ms they advertise. It makes gaming impossible.
Leopardipzg 3 years ago
BTW in this vid the differences are minimal i bet my HD screen has 180 MS delay its fucking insane
lias87 3 years ago
TN pan
lias87 3 years ago
'twould be nice to know what kind of LCD monitor that is. Is it a TN? PVA? IPS whatever?
phlarneyman 3 years ago
I played UT 2004 on very HIGH skill with a CRT with a HZ range of 150 +g5 and pro cloth pad
its direct as it can be every nanomove will be redirected to the view
with my new 22 inch lcd hd tv screen from LG its so laggy the game ut 2004 is unplayable!!!! UNPLAYABLE!!!i went to HIGH skills to low!!!!!
! every move has a ENORMOUS delay u cant hit shock balls anymore and cand follow targets1!!! its also very confusing for your brains so you cant play every single fps anymore seriously
lias87 3 years ago
CRT:
Pros:
Color, delay, presition
Cons:
Mass, too small of a screen, very power hungry, has refresh rate that hurts eyes
LCD
Pros: Light, Large screens, Easy resolution Changing, no or non-flashy refresh rates, more effecient
Cons: Delay, not as realistic colors
beliserius 3 years ago
No, CRT con is not refresh rate. No sane person would use 60hz refresh rate on CRT monitor.
Great thing about CRT's is that you can put higher refresh rates: 85-120hz. Then it won't hurt your eye.
netygraph 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Refresh rates don't matter on an LCD monitor because, as you might know by the name, LCD monitors have liquid crystals that are illuminated to show the colours on the screen. Since it's technically "liquid", it can fluidly display an image normally at a refresh rate higher than 45 or so hertz. The CRT's refresh rate kind of sucks because no matter how high you put it, you'll always get the screen tearing effects because it's not displaying it fluidly. LCDs' delays usually aren't a problem though
123IOWNALL321 3 years ago
That may be the stupidest thing I've ever read.
An LCD doesn't get its name because it displays "fluidly". It gets its name because of the liquid and the crystal. And you WILL get tearing because the internal circuitry displays using a vertical refresh rate to remain compatible with display standards.
nnubb 3 years ago 3
yeah too bad they dont make good 24" CRTs anymore- but then again one of those wouldnt even fit on my desk
I have a 24" Gateway (FHD2400) and it has a lot less input lag than my last 24" LCD (westinghouse L2410NM) so its pretty allright for gaming
still it has some real bad backlight bleed
avp715 3 years ago
For gaming consoles or movies where games are already super laggy, lcds aren't a bad option. But if your going to set around and play quake 3-4 at 60fps+, there are quite the laggy screens out there.
tatsumaru12345 3 years ago 3
response time has nothing to do with it, were talking about input lag, which is processing time by the microchip rendering the image in the pannel assembly
randoman88 3 years ago 4
How do you tell response time and input lag apart? Isn't the outcome the same? (just asking)
michelecant 3 years ago
response time is the time the pixels take to change (2ms to 25 on older ones) but this is more likely input lag which is the lag from when the ps3 etc sends the signal till when the monitor starts displaying it. I had to switch from my great looking westinghouse to a benq which has higher resolution but doesn't look as good at 720 color wise and sharpness because it only has something like 1.9ms input lag and after using it, the other one is hard to focus your eyes on fast moving objects.
muzapstar 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
whats the response time on that LCD tho, if you get a 5ms or lower you won't notice anything i bet
psychofruit 3 years ago
What brand/model/size LCD is that? And same question for the CRT. Just because in all fairness it's good to know exactly what we're dealing with as their is wide variance in LCD lag (and for CRT I'm mostly just wondering about the size).
timwdegner 4 years ago 4
my crt and lcd both run fine the only difference is that my crt has a better res but other than that my lcd doesnt lag
ba11ard 4 years ago
Oh yeah, and actually being able to use more than 25% of the space on your computer desk is a big plus. I think when I moved my big old CRT off my desk, I actually found a couple of bucks worth of forgotten change underneath it. Bonus!
McGuinty1 4 years ago 4
I think it's more a matter of personal preference now than "CRT is 1337, LCD is ghey". Now that I am used to LCD (my first 15" LCD looked funny for awhile too), I don't think I would ever go back. I find that you also get accustomed to any lag over a CRT and subconsciously compensate. Plus, just play a game on 1920x1200 and tell me it doesn't look awesome.
McGuinty1 4 years ago 2
I play on 2560x1600 on my 24" Widescreen CRT. It looks more awesome.
Wrathlon 4 years ago
I hate you so much right now, lol. I have never heard of a 24" wide CRT computer monitor, but it sounds pretty frickin' cool. btw, what kind of a rig do you have to run at such a ridiculously high rez?
Anyways, I still stand by my judgement. It is more personal taste than lag, contrast ratio etc. at this point, unless you are tourney gaming or something. I bet somebody who owns a 30" LCD at 2560x1600 would say "mine's better, it's bigger" even though your image looks 100 times cleaner.
McGuinty1 4 years ago
Yeah exactly, to put it in perspective, Lucas Arts, Pixar and the guys who made 300 all use this monitor. Im also not tied to native resolution.
I run 8800GT 512MB, 2GB Kingston HyperX 1066Mhz, Q6600 and a GA-P35-DS3P.
Only game I cant do that is Crysis but at least I can just drop the res and keep the eye candy on unlike the 30" LCD that needs everything set to bottom or play in non native res and use a mashed up display.
Also I didnt know they existed until like 2 weeks agoeither
Wrathlon 4 years ago
If you want to try both CRT and LCD out, go to best buy. they have 14 day return no restocking fee policy. is what i am doing right now 2232bw samsung.
mjp1980s 4 years ago
so what???? crt is old fashion now!!!
cortexedge 4 years ago
OMG ITS NEW I MUST BUY IT NOW.
Who cares if its inferior in everything but weight/desk space ITS NEW OMG.
-_-
Wrathlon 4 years ago 5
OLED > SED
RenegadeFury 4 years ago
OLED is also 238947298374 times more expensive and lasts 1/239084209874 times as long before it dies. Its also subject to the same problems as LCD's in terms of resolutions etc whereas SED is not.
Wrathlon 4 years ago
I have not seen any impressive LCD monitor in stores yet. I ended up with 19" Samsung LCD monitor. It's not that good. Oh well! Bring on SED!
antdude 4 years ago
I bought a 24" 16:10 BenQ with DVI-Dual/HDMI/component/composite/s-vid inputs, and I have never looked back. 6 months on and not a dead pixel in sight, the only problem I have with it is that the de-interlacing sucks, even 1080i artifacts a little, and scaling from 480p is tolerable and 720p is pretty decent. In fact, whenever I see someone using a CRT, even a high end 19 or 21 incher, the colors and everything look weird to me.
McGuinty1 4 years ago
Shop around, and actually try before you buy. There are many cheap LCD tv's out there but unfortunatly you do pay for what you get and cheaper sets cut corners and wont perform as well. I just bought a 40" sony LCD tv and its awesome running my 360!
connor2k 4 years ago
Looks almost like my Samusung 215TW, where I am having exactly same input lag. Bought in april 2007 and still no solution for input lag, OSD contains nothing usable. Definitely not a problem with PC. Already seeking a buyer for this expensive crap.
PajaFM 4 years ago
It isn't 'crap', it just isn't really a gaming monitor. Should have done some research before you sank the big bucks into it, you munchkin.
acleansweep 4 years ago
I did great amount of research, i was aware of input lag, but i found numerous method which claimed that they will be able to remove/reduce input lag. Unfortunately, none of them worked, so i am stuck. At the time of purchase, there was nothing better in non PWA/MVA area than this. My previous monitor was LCD with TN techonology abd I was so unhappy with it, so i sweared to myself that i will never buy an TN LCD again.
PajaFM 4 years ago
All LCD's lag like that. Google around, even the new big expensive monitors have this exact problem. The only way around it is to not buy an LCD.
Wrathlon 4 years ago 2
What model? Is it native resolution etc.etc. If you don't provide that information, this test means nothing...
gay666and777 4 years ago
I use solely my CRT for gaming, LCD was just never the same.
ballebanan 4 years ago
I have seen this happen with my friends LCDs. I have a standard tube TV at home and I play many 2d fighting games with my friend and I feel no lag at all. But when I go to his house, I mess up all my combos because of timing since he has an LCDs. I've experienced this on some of my other friend's LCDs, some not so noticeable, but some I swear have a half second lag.
guambombboy 4 years ago
CRT is vastly superior to ANY LCD screen. Fact. LCD dont refresh the entire screen, instead they 'morph' the image pixel by pixel. this is why the images have delay ( lag ) and moving images look poor and ALWAYS will, due to the technology. CRT refresh the entire screen, so you always get a brand new image, created in one go, rather than 1000s of pixels, which gives a blurry look. CRT have true blacks, and true colour, unlike LCD colour, which looks artificial Oh, and no grid fixed res.
ONETIMEWANNA 4 years ago 9
Do any current LCDs have no lags?
antdude 4 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Idiot. Have you seen every LCD screen perform? Have you seen into the future? until you have you are in no position to maka that statement. Shut up.
connor2k 4 years ago
Definitley some sort of lag going on. But the demo doesnt state if any video processing is enabled on the LCD screen ( pixel smoothing, antialisaing etc ). These could introduce a delay due to buffering effects. Try the demo with the signal processing switched off.
Waz24 4 years ago
If i use my Trinitron 19" crt on lan and the others use LCD (hate them) i will problably kill them all because of their Liquid piece of shit delay, i know that my screen is faster than lcd owners, i´ll kill them in Counterstike too.
GSi16vrs 4 years ago
TomCat2800: You're talking about pixel response time. Not the same (but possibly related to) the phenomenon shown above. Check out Wikipedia articles on "Input lag" and "Response time".
banthonyb 4 years ago 3
Yea my LCD is 4ms, this one is prolly 12ms or 16ms with this lag.
TomCat2800 4 years ago
I doubt anyone here can appreciate it unless they are a fast-pace FPS player (such as yourself). Just like when people don't believe that there is a difference between 85fps and 125fps.
Pretty much the only time anyone will ever recognize this tiny difference is if they play very competitive, fast-paced FPS games (UT2k4, Q3, Warsow, etc).
dyslexichobo 4 years ago
the question is what model lcd is this? without that imformation this test is useless. if it is obsolete cheap or running non-native resolution than it is a bogus demonstration.
omgwtfbbqstfu 4 years ago
you guys make me feel really good. I heard a few things about how CRT was better so I went out and bought a $700.00 21in. viewsonic monitor, it's nice to know I made the right choice. I also notice when watching a picture of a sunset that the contrast ratio is a lot better as well. On a CRT it looks like a light bulb shining through a sheet of paper whereas on an LCD it looks like an egg yolk on a sheet of paper. that's my 2¢
edudrepus 4 years ago
NOTE: This lag has nothing to do with the response time. As you see there is no ghosting, so the response time is good.
These "primarily" PVA and S-PVA screens seem to have a delay between the recieving of an image and the display of that image. In some cases it is reported to be so bad even sound in movies seems off sync!
DutchJuggernaut 5 years ago
lag or not, lcd's still look way better than crt's
manindermaninder 5 years ago
Isn't the lag on Plasma sets even worse? Go to a store with a lot of different sets running-some have more video or sound delay than others...
VideoJunkei 5 years ago
Lag or not, LCD's are great because the whole screen is always 'there' at all times (not scanned) BUT scanning can have avantages too-if you are modding an old plong machine into a audio display...
VideoJunkei 5 years ago
Lcd's do not hurt your eyes crts do that. Lcd's refresh at very high levels about 200hz.
RenegadeFury 5 years ago
bullshit, most lcd run at 60-75hz most modern crt can handle 120-150hz np, anyway lcd dont refresh like crt's do
Drexciyian 5 years ago
modern? you mean high end crts handle that refresh. cheap consumer ones might reach 100hz on a very low laughable resolution, but more like 75hz at a decent resolution. no free lunch.
omgwtfbbqstfu 4 years ago
"anyway lcd dont refresh like crt's do" - That's what i wanted to point out :)
But eyestrain is not the topic of this video anyway, so regardless of conclusions Renegade's comment was irrelevant :)
Przecinek 4 years ago
I have heard of the delays but this is the first time I see it compared. I have also heard that LCD hurts your eyes more. And opinions on that?
tubefan1234 5 years ago