David n the other gentleman their are refuting for the sake of refutation, if u check n find he is the prophet, their is no reason to reject him weather he has 17 or 700 wifes.
@ahmeds027 The problem is with Muhammad's consistency, and that he makes God out to be a "respecter of persons". "God" supposedly giving commands to him to take whoever he wants as a special privilege to him and no one else, that is favoritism. Also, allowed to commit adultery with married slaves, commanded his son-in-law to divorce so he could marry his wife, also ibn Ishaq's Suhayli, ii. 79 of "life of Muhammad" - we want to help you out from under man's thumb! Live for GOD!
@krononomikon as i told you, i am fine with my prophet marrying whoever he wants he is Allahs choosen man, he can do it also i am not pissed off that jesus ddnt marry, prophet do what Allah wills , also islam doesnt see sex as a sin but whats wants it to happen within marriage, also to do with slave women was a privilege n their kids where given ur name if born hope this sets things right for you
@ahmeds027 The point is not sex at all, it's the special privileges of Muhammad. He said God actually made some things lawful for him, while making them unlawful for everyone else. This is completely against God's character! As far as polygamy, as a Christian we believe "do unto others as you'd have them do unto you", and that would prevent jealousy and bickering between wives, and should make things also easier in the long run.
@krononomikon so u know how god functions? dd u meet him or what ? if u are basis it on christianity then u must know that most theologically educated muslims know christianity in n out yet we reject it coz of u making a man into god n joining partners to god the father, polygamy is wrong 4 a rich man who has the means to marry n 4 a raped women to marry the perpetrator right tat bible calls for? do u think ppl r fools? jealous in islam is of the soul n islam says 1 to curb it for better living
@ahmeds027 Jesus is the only person to see God in His fullness, and it's through Jesus we know God. It's by the Holy Spirit that He speaks to us now, and He indeed does so. I can base it on personal experience, as He has also appeared to me in dreams and told me of things to come that have come to pass, or answered my prayers in other such ways, even miraculous ways. All of that probably doesn't mean much anything, though... It's to God's glory, anyway, especially since the Son glorifies Him
@krononomikon But besides all of that, we can go back to scripture, but you would probably chuck it as fabricated or misinterpreted or changed over time. From scripture we know that God is love, and God commands us to do to others as we would have them do to us.
Did Muhammad do that when he made it lawful for himself to take any woman he wanted, including married female slaves, yet forbade it for everyone else? An authority in God's kingdom doesn't do such things: Matthew 20:25-28
@krononomikon There are things about that man no prophet does, including the breaking of previous revelation for a weaker revelation which isn't even a revelation. It doesn't take some mystical knowledge, except that it be a knowledge from God. With God, it is not an unsearchable thing, because by His Spirit it is made known, when we seek Him with all our hearts. He has utterly destroyed an addiction in me - I had to ask with all my heart, and from that hour forward it was gone for good.
@krononomikon Something that Paul talked about, that many who like to reject Paul may have missed, is that we suffer for the weaker brother, or in some cases, the weaker sister. Why do we marry only once, besides the fact that God made one woman for one man, and one man for one woman? You are right that jealousy is bad for the soul, and adultery is even worse. But you know what? Adultery also makes jealousy in the ones you say you love, even in polygamy: ask Aisha.
Now you bring up the issue of polygamy? Its even worse for christians.
mat19:9 '..I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery..'
What happen if the person marries another WITHOUT divorcing his wife , aka polygyny? Its OK according to mat19:9. If you notice , there is no set limit , ie, unlimited polygamy.
In comparison Quran4:3 , 4 is the limit , 1 is recommended.
At this stage God began to raise prophets among every people, who preached Islam to them. Each one reminded his people of the lesson they had forgotten. They taught them God-worship, put an end to idol-worship and the practice of shirk, i.e. associating other deities with God, did away with all customs of ignorance, taught them the right way of living in accordance with God's pleasure, and gave them life-giving laws to be followed and enforced in society. (Mawdudi, Towards Understanding Islam,)
muhammad is exceptional. i have to pray 5 times a day, he had to pray 6. he had to fast more than we do. he wasnt allowed any charity. he was very exceptional.
David and Sam are typical christian apologist. If had problem will more than 4 wives of Prophet Muhammed. Than he should also Have problem with David and Solomon who by the way has 700 wives. If he had problem with woman slaves than he should also have problem with all the prophets who have slaves ..including Abraham. ..
No prophet is above Gods law. Not even moses was above the laws of the torah. The fact that muhammad was above the law and not confined to it as other proves he cannot be a prophet. False prophets always make themselves above the law they preach.
he was not above God's law, is it you who gives laws or God? God is the one who gives exceptions, and specific laws. Case by case. Please use your mind, and not your emotions.
@ahmalala : No prophet is above law right????. If thats true than David and solomon cant be prophet... and you cant use david and solomon to justify that Jesus was prophesize by them.. Abraham cant be a prophet ...Keep in mind YHWH also claim both Abraham and David where perfect example of those who kept God's Law.
@ammir1 David and solomon where just kings and not prophets in the bible. Also, they are in no way said to be the perfect example for humanity like muhammad was in the quran. Christians belief, All have sinned, except jesus. Also, there was no specific restriction on wives in the torah law. However in muhammads case he did preach a law restricting wives among other laws which he did not hold to himself.
@ahmalala : You are wrong. First of your own entire bible act 2:29-30 declare David a prophet. Secondly a prophet is some who prophesize. And you claim that both David and Solomon prophesize about Jesus. So either take ur claim back ur claim or accept that they were prophets. Secondly u wrong again about David was not being an example for mankind yhwh asked Solomon to follow David again and again e.g 1 kings 9:5, 1 kings 11:38.
@ahmala: Jesus himself gave example of David when he was caught getting sticks in Sabbath. (Keep in mind there is no such verse in torah which Jesus claims). Lastly torah does tell people not to multiply wives (Deuteronomy).
@ammir1 first off. What verse are u quoting from Deuteronomy?
Second regardless whether or not they later became prophets of sorts, your missing the point. It is central to christian belief that all have sinned! Yes David was an example for solomon for the most part in terms of ruling, not a sinnless example for all mankind like muslims claim about muhammad.
@ahmalala : Deut 17 : 14-17 clearly states that the king should not take many wives. Secodly the bible NEVER condem david for taking many wive. The only time God condemn david was about Bath sheba incident not many wive. Similar it dont condemn solomon for taking 700 wives it only condemn it for taking queen sheeba as his wive..
@ammir1: lastly all the prophet are example for mankind. Its not about wether they sinned or not . its about wehther they are prophet based on thier action. otherwise one would say hitlor is a prophet and yes we belived all prophets sin and so does hitler.
@ammir1 lastly as i stated before we christians believe that all have sinned. Muslims do not believe muhammad ever sinned. Muslims always tell me the prophets were sinless and would never sinned. Only the bible is honest about their human natures. Quran does not tell of our sinful inclinations and therefore islam is not true and muhammad was no better than anyone else and even worse if the hadiths are to be believed.
@ammir1 Dueteronomy suggests he should not acquire many wives, king david did not acquire many wives, maybe a few if not just 2. When david took bathsheba he was harshly punished. Solomon did however he suffered consequences as a result that led him to many troubles. So the bible is clearly not presenting such action as any example to follow.
@ahmalala : ahmalala you knowledge of bible is very week. you dont even know what u defending. David had atleast 8 wives and various concubines....Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines. As i said before David was condemn only for bathsheba because she was already married and David commit adultary with her and than killed her husband.
Yhwh didnt punish david , instead of punishing him God killed the little baby who has no fault. similarly solomon was only critizie for queen sheeba who was her 700th wive. NOT for taking multiple wive.
@ammir1 Are u crazy? He did punish David in the worst way possible. You lose a child and then tell me whats worse. The child was illegimate and aborted as an example and punishment.
"similarly solomon was only critizie for queen sheeba who was her 700th wive." WtF? Bathsheba was solomons mother. Again u keep missing the point here. He suffers many consequences from his many wives and his decision is portrayed as an error. Your viewing the bible in a narrow and rediculous manner
@xiaahmad The point is muhammad preached it was wrong to have more than for wives and did not follow his own rules, he also did not allow certain people to marry multiple wives at all such as Ali because he was married to Fatima was told he had to divorce her if he ever wanted an extra wife. It all shows muhammad was just making up laws which he himself would not follow.
@xiaahmad No. False prophets always make the mistake of making restrictions they will not want to fulfil in the future. Muhammad probably wasnt expecting to have as many opportunities or temptations. Once presented with them he obviously just created special rules for himself on the spot. All false prophet did it including Joseph smith. All the excuses your using for muhammad are the same they use to try and overlook the obvious.
@xiaahmad Nope. No prophet was above the law they themselves preached. Muhammad obviously had strong desires and created convenient revelations to fulfill them. You cant convince me god found so important to fulfill muhammads desire that he devoted quran revelation to them allowing to have sex with whoever he wanted and disrespect his own wives and making it seem lawful.
@xiaahmad U havent at all for why muhammad needed so many sexual pleasures and favors from so many woman which is part of your supposes verbatim word of god holy book. The truth is very clear for all to see.
Is this the only restriction he made? No. What about ALL the other prohibitions that he himself followed? He was offered WOMEN at the very beginning of His prophethood (in Mecca) and he REJECTED the offer, even if the sun and moon were placed in my hands I wouldn't give up ". Those are his exact words, why didn't he accept the offer if He was a sexual pervert? He remained virgin for 25 years, Khadijah OFFERED HERSELF not vice versa. He didn't marry ANY woman until she died.
Also, if Muhammad was the author of the Quran, why did he make the "religion" hard on himself? IT was something else (God) speaking TO him. He forbade his companions to pray all night, he said "GOD gave me special power to endure it". He even gave up Honey and GOD criticized him for it. GOD makes it harder for Prophets not his followers, he's superior to them IF Muhammad were a false prophet, he would make the Quran EASY for himself and hard for his companions. But he shared in their struggle.
Women offered themselves to Muhammad, one time he declined. A clear Proof he wasn't a sex addict. For years Muhammad never proposed to Khadijah, she did because of His good character The Prophet DID have knowledge of the offers (the temptations), but rejected it. So how could say "he forgedthat on the spot" when the SAME book corrects/ criticizes him? Every charge against the Prophet has been denied 1400 yrs ago, as if GOD was reading YOUR MINDS. And pedophilia charge is absent from the Quran!
@muslim9x9x You gave the example of the honey which has little support btw. This was an instance i used as an example to show how allah conveniently revelation came to him allowing him to break his oath and not be prohibited.
@muslim9x9x You are so naieve. Of course if u believe he recieved revelation criticizing a prohibition against himself he would make it seem as if god was rebuking the decision. As God had nothing better to do. lol
@muslim9x9x Muhammad made it easy on himself allowing himself to indulge with many special privilages including sex slaves, just for him btw, sura 33:50
He was such a sex addict he even imagined himself having sex in delusions.
Sahih Bukhari Volume 8, Book 73, Number 89:
Narrated 'Aisha:
The Prophet continued for such-and-such period imagining that he has slept (had sexual relations) with his wives, and in fact he did not.
Context of Quran33:50 is who 's who for lawful wife '..We have made lawful to thee thy wives..', This is similar to lev18:6-23. If you say Quran33:50 is wrong , TQ and congratulations , you just condemn your bible.
The keyword in Bukhari vol8 , bk73 , no89 is 'WIVES' not 'sexual partners'. This is different with your biblical prophet david who made pregnant the wife of another , bathsheba (2sam11:4) , then sent her husband to die in battle. Is this the teaching of the bible?
@sammy1528 No chrisitan ever claimed David was the perfect example for humanity. Go Back and read my comments before saying anything. we understand he sinned once as all have sinned. Which is why we follow only jesus who could not sin. Muhammad unlike david sin a ton in many different ways and not punished and instead exalted as an example for humanity by the quran. This why muslims will always be backwards
Isn't biblical david one of the prophets in your bible? If I take literally , biblical david , not prophet daud(as), was/is teaching you christians to take the wife of another. That is teaching by example even breaking one of the 10 commandments. Provide proof of the wrong doing of Prophet Muhammad(saw) according to the bible. The bible is your guidance.
Last time I checked , christians lead in lack of morality. How many sex scandals involve the churches against the mosques?
@sammy1528 No he wasnt teaching anything. He sinned and was punished in the same all men sin at some point. This is the whole point of the sin nature. Muslims dont have this concept and muhammd sinned and sinned while muslims do take his behavior as the highest standard! old men are still marrying baby girls cause of muhammads actions today!
Look at the christian society , don't you have cases of married men going after the wives of others. Hell , even the priest in churches do so with the sex scandals surfacing. Isn't that following the examples of biblical david? Marrying baby girls? Who did it? Not Prophet Muhammad(saw) and Aishah(ra). They lived as husband and wife after she attained puberty. Even your 'great' shamoun agreed quoting eze16:7-8 as its biblically OK after puberty. You have no issue. Try again
@sammy1528 You keep refering to the actions of mere men like you or me. As a chirstian i understand that men are sinful, whether they live in the west or east they have their sins in society. What im talking about are the actions of prophets we take as our example. Christians only follow Jesus' example who was perfect. You follow muhammad.
If you follow biblical jesus , why do you guys marry and have children? Biblical jesus in the bible did not marry nor had any children? Isn't the bible the book of guidance for christians? Look at what happened with the sex scandals in the churches , these are supposed to be men of god. They subscribe to a different standards and can absolve each other sins just by confessing to one another? Stop being hypocrites. Christian do not have any platform of morality.
I am not desperate. The desperate one is you and only you. Are you sure its only the catholic church that is involved? Come on , face reality as it should be faced. You say you follow biblical jesus , ok he did not marry and had children in the bible. Why aren't you guys following his example?
Aren't the actions of these men following the teachings from your bible? Again we are challenging you , show us the wrong doings of Prophet Muhammad(saw) following the values from your bible.
@sammy1528 In the bible their where rules for female captives. sex was only for marriage and they where given a full month first/ Men could not just have sex for pleasure like muhammad taught his followers too.
Read deut21:10-14 carefully. It states '..take her as your wife..'. This means the person who owns the female slave can have sex with the slave as though she was/is his wife. The verse does not say '..take her to be your wife..'. Subtle but big difference.
In the end its sex with the female slave. What will be the rights of the child if the slave bore him a child? In Islam , the child has every and equal inheritance rights. In the bible .... too bad .... no rights for the child.
@sammy1528 Once someone has sex with the slave she becomes his wife! This is perfectly clear. It says, "SHE SHALL BE YOUR WIFE!" deut 21:14 he is no longer allowed to have a her as a slave and she is free forever. Stop lying to yourself
Who is lying to who? Deut21:11 (niv bible) '..are attracted to her, you may take her as your wife..'. Taking the captive 'as your wife' is different from taking the captive 'to be your wife'.
Again its inconsistency in deut21:14. Refer to deut21:15 , if the man is not satisfied , he lets her go. I thought divorce is prohibited between husband and wife? This means that the so called 'wife' is just by name and marriage.
@sammy1528 Now your just contradicting yourself. lol
The fact that it mentions divorce means they are obviously married so you intentionally tried to lie and say otherwise. It even says in verse 14" you shall go in her and be her husband" You exposed yourself.
And no divorce was okay under the old covenant for the jews.
I contradicted myself? Don't think so , there is contradiction in deut21:10-14. What is right? Verse 11 says differently compared to verse 14 and verse 15 supports verse 11 as in christianity , divorce is prohibited. In the end , in context , it just sex with slave just as with a wife. The slave becoming the wife is not in the scope at all.
TQ and congratulations , you just exposed yet another contradiction in the bible. Ho ho , now trying to hide under the OT and NT scam issit?
Using captives for sex is a cultural hand down from biblical moses right thru biblical jesus. Islam came , stopped this practice in a gradual manner with (1) consenting sex (2) providing equal inheritance to the child from the sexual union (3) the female slave upon bearing a child cannot be sold and will be a free woman when the master dies. Christians do not have such laws (ie. once a slave , always a slave).
You provided evidence that points back to christianity. To bad ...
@sammy1528 No. Fornication was always prohibited in the bible. Once they had sex, they where required to be married. That was the only function of sex in the bible.
Deut21:11 does not support what you said about fornication and marriage. Its the opposite really. It allows for sexual intercourse with captives. You are embarrassed as you have been caught out.
@sammy1528 Your being dishonest. It clearly gives instructions for marriage and divorce if necessary. In any case she becomes a free women. I cant argue with a clear liar. everyone who honest can see your lies. Duet 21:11 which u mentioned clearly says " and u desire to take her as your wife" Your exposing yourself again.
Exposing myself? Its more of exposing the bible and of course you. Since when does '..take as your wife..' means marrying the lady in concern? I can understand '..take to be your wife..' as marrying the lady.
'Take as your wife' in deut 21:11 is taking the lady and treating her as your wife but not into marrying her. Simple and straight forward.
@sammy1528 Are u really that stupid? It says "to take her to be your wife" ESV
which translation are u even using? even in that translation, If someone said i will take so and so to be my wife, the meaning is clear. she is his wife. This is clear 100% by the whole passage. Your trying bring out some different meaning with no support at all.
I am exposing you for the bull shitter you are and you don't like it. Too bad for you you have been caught out. Of course 'take so and so to be my wife' meaning you are taking her to be your wife. No issues. However 'take so and so as my wife' meaning you are not marrying her but treating her as your wife. This is exactly in deut21:11 '..you may take her as your wife..'. Bible niv supports me.
Somehow when it doesn't fit you , the bible niv is not good enough?
@sammy1528 It means the exact same thing. Just cause its said in a slightly different way in another translation, doesnt give it a new meaning obviously.
Go ahead , read deut21:10-14 , its exactly per what I mentioned , that it is ok to have sex with female captives. However there is no biblical law protecting the child borne from such sexual union. That is bad , the man can have sex with a captive but not be responsibe for his child borne by the captive. This is the law of the jungle.
Ho ho , now I need to know biblical laws to lay claim. In same vein , the same can be said of you about Islamic laws and your claims. It works both ways. You are now trapped and 'knowing / not knowing biblical laws is your escape path'. Come on , be honest with yourself. Slavery , sexual union with captives are hand downs from biblical moses going thru biblical jesus. Its only Islam and Prophet Muhammad(saw) eradicated it bit by bit as it was culturally ingrained.
@sammy1528 You havent quoted anything from quran or hadiths showing that my claims about muhammad and his teachings are wrong. Instead you tried to lie about the bible. lol
Why should I quote from the hadith or Quran as you don't believe in either. The challenge still remains , prove to us the wrong doing of Prophet Muhammad(saw) according to your bible. Can you do it?
So far you have failed. Your only excuse is that I lied about the bible. Why don't you check the reference I provided. Its there for you to counter check.
@sammy1528 Cause you know you cant back up a thing you say. I am the only quoting any sources from the quran and hadith here. You probably dont even know the sources too well. lol
Btw i can prove muhammad doing wrong according to his own quran, not just the bible.
The quran teaches to stay away from women during their menses, yet i can provide many hadiths showing muhammad broke this law over an over.
You quote the hadith and Quran but you cannot prove any single point as your argument is in tatters. Making matters worse , such is supported in your bible. So the one who cannot provide any back up to what he says is you and only you.
I take it that you concede this point. Now you are trying to change topic to sex during menses. Ok , try our level best. Lets see where it gets you. I am pretty sure you be crashing in no time.
@sammy1528 I proved every argument with sources. Your just making claims while i keep proving them wrong with evidence. Your afraid of your own islamic sources.
You proved what argument with Islamic sources? All that you have provided points back to your bible allowing such. If you condemn such , you are condemning your bible. You are in a fix.
Where is it that I we muslims are afraid of our own Islamic sources. Everything you throw , comes back harder at you. BTW , this is enjoyable. Come on , you need to try harder.
What points have you proven? Looks like all of your so called points ended up with you condemning your own bible.
Surely you can do better ..... can you? I am going to let you go off , don't be shy to provide your arguments. Most likely when compared to your bible , your points will come crashing down to earth. Till then .... see ya
@sammy1528 Be honest with yourself muhamad had sex with married and unmarried slave girls and promoted it among his followers in both the quran and hadiths includin
By the way there in no Sahih Bukhari book 8 number 3371. I guess in your copy paste you missed the fact that its sahih muslim. Ok then , pinpoint where in the hadith that Prophet Muhammad( saw) had sex with the captives / slaves. You will have a very hard time. In context , its about him being asked about 'azl'. Prophet Muhammad(saw) gave his opinion.
The bible as in deut21:11 supports such. What is you issue? You have none but trying hard to make an issue out of thin air.
@sammy1528 yes it was sahih muslim. oh well. I have many authentic hadiths to expose muhammad. Even the quran tells its okay to have sex with captive slaves and thats better than hadiths, it refers to them as those whom your right hand possess. Its all over the quran Read sura 33:50 muhammad is given exclusive permission to have sex privilages with various women.
Quran33:50 says '..We have made lawful to thee thy wives..'. Where does it say 'captive slaves' or 'sex privilages'. Sure you understand what you read? Compare that to lev18:6-29. So what is wrong with the people that has been made lawful to Prophet Muhammad(saw) when referenced to lev18:6-29? TQ and congrats , you just condemn your bible. You again shot yourself in your foot.
Use your brains to think , copy paste arguments do not work.
@sammy1528 Lev 18: 6-29 wtf? these verses refer to not uncovering others nakedness. lol did u even bother to read them? Looks like your the one copy and pasting. lol
Are you sure you know what you are talking about? Lev18:6-29 is about 'Unlawful Sexual Relations' as stated in the niv bible. Looks like you are getting from bad to worse.
Cool down , take a breather , refer to lev18:6-29. Don't panic.
@sammy1528 yup. fornication is not allowed anywhere in the bible. In cases where they occur, marriage is required, this is also clear by the many verses i showed u. Whether slave or free marriage is necessary for sex. This is the truth.
Hmm , fornication is not allowed I see. Ok that means you just condemn you bible as deut21:11 says sex with captives is ok.
What about incest? Bibical judah and tamar , gen38:16 , giving birth to parez the ancestor of biblical jesus per the geneologies in mat1 and luk1. Uh-oh , I guess , fornication is not ok but incest is ok in the bible yeah. Hmmm
Issit? The online niv bible states of deut21:11 as '..you may take her as your wife..'. We have gone thru this and you have no answer to the difference between 'take her as your wife' against 'take her to be your wife'. Big difference yeah. In deut21:11. The former treat the captive as a wife (ie. have sex with her) but not into marrying her.
The one changing the subject is you not me.
You have been give so much time yet you only repeat refuted arguments. Poor
@sammy1528 Regarding sura 33:50 read the whole verse. "we have made lawful for thee.....and those whom your right hand possess out of the capives of war.. the daughters of uncles..aunts..women who give themselves..etc..."this is only for thee, and not for the believers at large"
Ok , what is your issue with Quran33:50? Didn't it say '..We have made lawful to thee thy wives..' in the beginning of the verse? There is no conflict with the conditions in lev18:6-29.
What standard are you using for your measurement. You are a christian , your bible is your value. Looks like you are having double or triple standards. This is a very weak argument from you. You don't even have a set of values that is used as your measurement.
@sammy1528 according to the verse muhammad had privilages as stated in the verse, "only for thee" he also allowed followers to have sex for the sake of sex without marriage with captives. Such fornications are prohibited in the bible. Thats my measurement as u say.
Gee whiz , deut22:11 (niv bible) says its ok to have sex with female captives. Guess , if it ever took place , is not wrong from the context of the bible. You have these problems (1) prove that Prophet Muhamad(saw) ever had sex with a female captive (2) prove its wrong from the bible.
In both counts , you have failed. Do try again , put a bit more effort this time around.
Oh well , should be deut21:11 instead of deut22:11. Looks like you are clutching straws , typos will be typos. What is the issue?
The challenge remain , prove to us the wrong doing of Prophet Muhammad(saw) according to the values of your bible. So far you have provided is nil , nada , BS etc. Do try again.
@sammy1528 The verse is perfectly clear. I obviously already proved my point so i can move on. Besides its just one of many many reasons why islam is wrong.
Now i can move to the quran itself. The quran is full of errors despite the fact that even one disproves the quran. There is nothing believable in islam.
Naah , its not clear as reasons already stated. You cannot even challenge the points that were made. You want to move on , ok , I take that this point has been conceded by you as you cannot prove any wrong doing of Prophet Muhammad(saw) according to the values of your bible.
Quran full of errors? This is classic comedy with you being the lead clown. Just save us all of our time and post your link of such 'errors'. The muslim bros or I can just post the link refuting it. What say you?
@sammy1528 No i wanted to move on cause i proved by arguments beyond any doubt and you never bring any sort of valid evidence to refute them and i have many problems with the quran which muslims cant answer so far such as the following,
Now its just ignoring deut21:11. Ok by me as its you who conceded. Are we supposed to be sacred of your claim that we cannot answer to Quran33:38? Where does it say the sun revolves around the earth? Don't waste our time with copy paste arguments. Provide the list and the link , any one here can post the web link refuting your copy paste argument. You are now behaving like a spammer.
BTW , what do you see when standing facing a huge lake facing sunset?
Oh I see , its your own argument. Ok then , pinpoint where in Quran36:38 that states the sun revolves around the earth. It says that the sun runs on its course in a determined period. Doesn't the sun has its own orbit?
I repeat my advice , science is not your forte , just stick to copy paste arguments , you will not look so bad.
Yusuf Ali translation , Quran36:38 '..the sun runs his course for a period determined for him..'. Doesn't 'course for a period determined' means the period of the sun's orbit? Looks like your beef is with translation of the Quran and not the Quran itself. Ok then , point out to us in arabic where in context it says 'resting place'. Can you do that?
Let see how good is your arabic. You have been moaning about us muslims not knowing hebrew , lets see if you adhere to your own standard.
@sammy1528 Thats what is says, read the rest of the verse. Also as i before the quran mentions alexander the great reaching the edge of the earth and seeing the sun into a pool of water. You cant deny something so obvious.lol
You are running away changing your stance again. What has happened to your contention of Quran36:38? You suddenly realised that you are wrong huh? Now its the BS that zulkarnain reached the 'ends of the earth'? Care to pinpoint where in Quran18:83-99 where it states 'ends of earth'. Not bull shitting again are you?
You have not answered my question. What do you see when you stand facing a huge lake facing the setting sun?
@sammy1528 No im just pointing out all the problems with the verse. I never said there was only one error, i said there where many errors. IT doesnt say lake. It says pool of murky water. Implying a small body of water. I can even bring hadith proving points further, both verses confirm the sun is revolving and going to its resting place as alexander is said to have witness in quran
I take it you previous comment of 'ends of earth' in Quran18 is pure BS as you have evaded answering on it. Now its a small body of water. On what criteria? Pinpoint where in surah18 that says the sun revolve around the earth going to its resting place. I am sure you will avoid answering this one ..... again.
@sammy1528 the mere fact that it doesnt mention the movement of the earth and constantly mentions the movement of the sun around the earth should even be enough evidence plus the alxander thing, and the other verse clearly saying it runs to its resting place and hadith confirms it even further. You must either be insane or lying. lol
If you have evidence , pinpoint it in the said verses. Don't go around like a headless with no sense of direction. You are just running in circles chasing your own backside.
Challenge the answer and provide evidence of your claim. Judging by your empty rhetoric , you do not have any argument.
One liners are not answers. Where is the proof and evidence of your claims. Until now we have not seen anything from you except BS. I don't need to prove anything at this moment as you have not even stated your case coherently. We actually do not know what you are trying to say.
You made videos doesn't mean you are right. It just show that you are capable to make videos.
Bring something with tangible evidence and pinpoint where is the proof. One liners is a sign of a weak argument. Come on , we are waiting. This is boring.
So what if these nut jobs made videos? It just mean that they can make videos. It doesn't mean that when they can produce videos , they are right.
Come on , we are still waiting for your so called arguments that no muslim can refute. Are we supposed to shake in fear of such arguments? I bet most of us are laughing our butts off.
@sammy1528 I viewed there videos and they noticed all the errors in quran i noticed. SO many errors in that book lol. But im sure u have some crazy nonsensical explanation for each one of them lol
Ho ho , so many errors in the Quran yeah?? The so called errors which you claim will send us muslims scurrying for cover ...... where is it? Data talks bull shit walks .... remember that in life.
@sammy1528 For instance, HUMAN Muhammad making the human error of thinking Mary the mother of Jesus was Miriam of the Old Testament. Why? He not only calls her "daughter of Amran", but "sister of Aaron"; then he tries to cover it up by saying they used to say things like that to honor people, when there was never any such custom! Also, Mary was never from that bloodline - she came through the house of Judah from David!
@krononomikon The whole CORE of errors in the Quran can be demonstrated by how it says it attests to the truth of the Torah (which is not changed since even before Jesus) and what Jesus said, yet it completely goes against what they said! OT prophesies Jesus' resurrection and eternal life, Jesus proclaims it, it happens, and then the Quran denies it, not even understanding why things had to happen as they do...
We want you to come out from under the lies: read the Bible, and ask God for help!
@sammy1528 lol, no one EVER called someone "sister of someone" as an honor... as far as "daughter of such and such", that's because they were DESCENDED from them! So they are actually their "daughter" or "son"...
the point is that Muhammad said "oh, people used to say such and such like this" when they actually didn't. The point is that Muhammad is a fallible human being!
What makes more sense? So why don't they call other people "mother of Jesus"? That's a twisting of reality, friend...
@krononomikon Let me explain it like this with the mother, brother, sister:
It's not for any man's honor, but it's for God's glory! How, one may ask? Well, He said whoever does God's will is my mother, brother, and sister. Those that are close to Him. How do we find a corroboration? He also said, if you love me, do my Father's commands. So it's their relationship with Him inside, their love, and not an honor to them by men. It is God's glory in them, and through Jesus!
You have answered your own question. Prophet Aaron(as) glorified Allah and did the will of Allah as you pointed out '..my father's commands..'. Mary being a pious lady has been aligned to him on the basis of her doing the will of Allah. One of the reasons she was called 'sister of aaron'.
@sammy1528 The point is that no one ever said "such and such brother of such and such" out of reverence for that person. And what would Mary have to do with the Levitical priesthood? She was not a Levite! Why not say "sister of Moses", since it was Moses that brought the Law? Yet no one says that...
what is Mary in Arabic? مريم
what is Miriam in Arabic? مريم
Not surprised he says Aaron's sister, when Aaron's sister is Miriam; Amran's daughter!
'No one has ever said such brother of such and such out of reverence of that person'? Reverence to the person or god? mark3:35 attest to that.
There is no specific biblical reference of mary's lineage. The closest one is luk1:35 stating of her and elizabeth being cousins ; elizabeth being a descendant of aaron luk1:5.
That is all you have.
To us muslims , aaron is Prophet Harun(as).
The confusion stems from you , Maryam / miriam is the arabic / hebrew equivalent of mary.
@sammy1528 That doesn't mean anything. My cousins are Swedish, and I have no Swedish blood in me. They get that from their father, while my aunt is from my mom's side, and my uncle is not blood-related. The conclusion can't be drawn through that!
About Mary being the same as Miriam, that's my whole point... It wasn't any difference to Muhammad either, thus the error of calling the mother of Jesus the same person as Amran's daughter and Aaron's sister. The "honor" thing doesn't explain Amran
@krononomikon Paul didn't do God's will based on what? Torah law? Muhammad broke Torah law... Also, if you're still not satisfied, read the Surah 3:50, where it says Jesus was sent to make a portion lawful which was forbidden before... so how can you accuse Paul for anything, especially when you say "because Muhammad was chosen", he gets to have unlawful privileges above his subjects? Paul though DID do Torah law, and proves it in Acts, at the suggestion of the Twelve.
@krononomikon Yes, Hosanna to the son of David! Jesus, as far as the human lineage, is descended from David, thus the "son of David". This was not an "honor" title. The closest thing to any kind of honor would be for instance "sons of Thunder", which Jesus named the brother Apostles, and "son of encouragement", which Barnabas was called. When used with people, it denoted their relationship. I call people I love "brother", but if his name was Jack, no one would say I was "brother of Jack"!
@krononomikon They didn't use that back then, or else it would be in the Bible. Furthermore, it didn't make sense to the Christians and Jews living there, or else the complaint wouldn't have been brought to Muhammad at all! Come on, man... it's just common sense! By twisting, I mean assuming that because someone is brother in love, that it assumes one calls them "brother of such and such" when they never did historically! Jesus' brother in love and God's glory, not a title for men's honor...
Its not in the bible? mark3:35 '..Whoever does God's will is my brother and sister and mother..' , mat21:9 '..Hosanna to the Son of David!..'.
You are denying the obvious.
Where is the alleged twisting of facts? The references has been provided as is. You still cannot refute the statement 'sister of aaron' in the Quran as the bible also uses such expression.
Which Torah law did Prophet Muhammad(saw) broke? What is wrong with Prophet Isa(as) making lawful what was unlawful before. The law came from Allah , Allah has 'absolute rights' over it.
Who is paul? Biblical jesus know him? Did biblical jesus walked , talked with him prior to him going away?
How come Paul's so called god circumcised on the 8th day but circumcision to Paul was neither here nor there?
On whose authority paul became an apostle? His own?
What is this about swedish blood etc? Simple question ' are you brothers in christ'? Yes or no?
Prophet Muhammad(saw) was not confused when he stated that the people of old associate themselves to apostles / pious people. You are confused. You still have not answered on mat21:9 of biblical jesus being addressed as 'son of david'.
@sammy1528 for instance, it's not known what house Mary's aunts come from - for all we know, her aunt (being of Judah) could have married a man from Levi, a Levite, thus making her cousin descended from Aaron, while she is a Judahite.
Yes, the lineage is through the man, which is why both lineages are said to be fathers of Joseph. Joseph didn't have two gay dads - one is his step-father!
Muhammad took Safiyah Bint Huyeiy Ibn Akhtab from war before the 30 required days by in Deuteronomy 21:13...
@krononomikon ...in addition to foregoing the 30-day mourning law of MERCY, Muhammad permits adultery with slaves through Quran 4:24 and 23:5,6.
According to the flesh, he most certainly did descend from David. Also, that was a sign of the Messiah, as said in Acts 13:22,23.
I'm not saying it was an honor to any human being that a man was named after, except for their descendant, which is of the flesh. "Sons of Thunder" is like Jacob called Israel, which is "Prince of God".
@krononomikon The WHOLE PROBLEM with the Muhammad thing is this, put simply:
Muhammad says "they used to name themselves after those who came before them".
Sure, Mary is Mary, and Moses' sister was Mary. But misidentifying someone as saying "she is the sister of her ancestor"? That never happened.
If you can't understand the difference between that proposal and between being brothers in love, of which NO TITLE WAS ORDERED ANYWAY, then there is no point in continuing!
@krononomikon As far as the Paul thing with circumcision, understand what he's saying when he says "those who want to circumcise you don't care about you, but only want to add you to them". That's the sign that they would do when making a proselyte. So if Jesus was against the Pharisees for crossing land and sea to win a single proselyte, yet making them twice the son of hell as them, how would Paul be contradictory in saying "don't do it because they simply want to add to their numbers"?
Its the other way around actually. Paul not stressing on circumcision (in this case) is ample proof that he 'simply want to add to their numbers'. Look at it this way , the so called god in biblical jesus was circumcised on the 8th day , why did paul not preach in the way of biblical jesus?
Its obvious. To appeal to the gentiles. Paul sacrificed a 'principle' in order to win converts. This , I am afraid is dishonest in his part.
@sammy1528 Acts 15:6-11 about the supposedly "Pauline" doctrine on not being circumcised. They were GENTILES! This is also why a lot of Christians don't follow a lot of Mosaic laws, because they were made to set the Israelites apart. That's why Jews today say "the Muslims think they are the people of God". Even in Mosaic law, the most important thing was circumcision of the heart! If Paul was trying to prevent people from being circumcised for no reason, he wouldn't have circumcised Timothy
@krononomikon And still, you're arguing about laws, when Muhammad said of Jesus, He has come to make a portion of what's unlawful, lawful?
Did you read Leviticus 19:20-22? It is not permitted, it is FORBIDDEN! It says right there that the punishment is SCOURGING! It is only counted as less than adultery (so they are not killed) because she was not free i.e. she had no choice in the matter. There was also to be a tresspass offering... Did Muhammad do these things? No, he permitted them!
@krononomikon About brotherly love, here are some verses:
1 John 4:7-11 (whoever is God's loves)
Romans 12 (love with brotherly love, because we're all of the same Christly, spiritual body, the Church)
Hebrews 13 ("continue in brotherly love", Timothy is a brother in the Church)
By love we know God, doing His commands in that same Spirit of Truth, but not as empty rules, because the Law is for those who don't know their right hand from their left, and must be forced to behave. In this we are His
@krononomikon In this we are His brothers, doing God's commands. However, if anyone from back then thought that calling someone "son of such and such" was a custom of honor, how come no one picked up on it?
Psalm 132, Jeremiah 23:5, Jeremiah 33:15 (from the line of David)
Psalm 110:1, Zechariah 12:10-14 (God is pierced by Jerusalem?)
Matthew 1:1, Matt. 1:20, Matt. 9:27, Matt. 22:42-45 (Jesus and His pre-existence - because they thought He'd be descended from David?)
@krononomikon In this light, it really doesn't even matter whether or not Mary was from David, because it still cancels out the notion that people "honored" others by saying "oh, sister of such and such"! They never did such a thing! Again, those followers were called the brethren, being in the body of Christ. We call each other brothers, but no one says "brother of Jesus", "sister of Jesus", and as far as a daughter, what was Amran that she was his daughter?
You are running around in circles. Simple question. Is biblical jesus being called 'son of david' the same expression of mary called 'sister of aaron'?
Mark 3:35 says 'yes'. If you disagree , provide your reasoning.
They 'thought' jesus descended from david? A person with no biological father can be 'thought' to be a descended of david? Beats me .... really
What is the issue of jesus making lawful what was not lawful?
Lev19:20-22? You have misunderstood the verse. '..slave girl promised to another man but who has not been ransomed..' Its not permitted to have sex with a slave if the slave has been 'presold' or 'promised to be sold' to another.
Ok then , provide your evidence that Prophet Muhammad(saw) had sex with his slaves when they were 'promised' to another.
Historical facts states that Prophet Muhammad(saw) freed his slaves.
@sammy1528 the verse itself says it in Quran 33:50. Also that Muhammad could marry his cousins. There's a difference between someone happening to do it, and someone saying God changed His mind about it being right for people to do it. What's worse is that he makes God out to take partiality with His law! There really is no getting around that character change.
Contrast to King David who, when he saw a woman he liked, had her husband at the frontlines so he died, but he cried with repentance!
@krononomikon I mean the very substance of what Muhammad cares about is summed up in his description of the reward in the everlasting for believers. That is completely against the biblical heaven. Knowing the fruit of the Spirit, and knowing that the Spirit is a first installment of what is to come, and knowing that we will "be like the angels in heaven", how is it that we will live a natural and fleshly eternity, to fulfill our own, selfish desires? In our hearts it's irreconcilable by faith.
David n the other gentleman their are refuting for the sake of refutation, if u check n find he is the prophet, their is no reason to reject him weather he has 17 or 700 wifes.
ahmeds027 1 year ago
@ahmeds027 The problem is with Muhammad's consistency, and that he makes God out to be a "respecter of persons". "God" supposedly giving commands to him to take whoever he wants as a special privilege to him and no one else, that is favoritism. Also, allowed to commit adultery with married slaves, commanded his son-in-law to divorce so he could marry his wife, also ibn Ishaq's Suhayli, ii. 79 of "life of Muhammad" - we want to help you out from under man's thumb! Live for GOD!
krononomikon 1 year ago
@krononomikon as i told you, i am fine with my prophet marrying whoever he wants he is Allahs choosen man, he can do it also i am not pissed off that jesus ddnt marry, prophet do what Allah wills , also islam doesnt see sex as a sin but whats wants it to happen within marriage, also to do with slave women was a privilege n their kids where given ur name if born hope this sets things right for you
peace
ahmeds027 1 year ago
@ahmeds027 The point is not sex at all, it's the special privileges of Muhammad. He said God actually made some things lawful for him, while making them unlawful for everyone else. This is completely against God's character! As far as polygamy, as a Christian we believe "do unto others as you'd have them do unto you", and that would prevent jealousy and bickering between wives, and should make things also easier in the long run.
krononomikon 1 year ago
@krononomikon so u know how god functions? dd u meet him or what ? if u are basis it on christianity then u must know that most theologically educated muslims know christianity in n out yet we reject it coz of u making a man into god n joining partners to god the father, polygamy is wrong 4 a rich man who has the means to marry n 4 a raped women to marry the perpetrator right tat bible calls for? do u think ppl r fools? jealous in islam is of the soul n islam says 1 to curb it for better living
ahmeds027 1 year ago
@ahmeds027 Jesus is the only person to see God in His fullness, and it's through Jesus we know God. It's by the Holy Spirit that He speaks to us now, and He indeed does so. I can base it on personal experience, as He has also appeared to me in dreams and told me of things to come that have come to pass, or answered my prayers in other such ways, even miraculous ways. All of that probably doesn't mean much anything, though... It's to God's glory, anyway, especially since the Son glorifies Him
krononomikon 1 year ago
@krononomikon But besides all of that, we can go back to scripture, but you would probably chuck it as fabricated or misinterpreted or changed over time. From scripture we know that God is love, and God commands us to do to others as we would have them do to us.
Did Muhammad do that when he made it lawful for himself to take any woman he wanted, including married female slaves, yet forbade it for everyone else? An authority in God's kingdom doesn't do such things: Matthew 20:25-28
krononomikon 1 year ago
@krononomikon There are things about that man no prophet does, including the breaking of previous revelation for a weaker revelation which isn't even a revelation. It doesn't take some mystical knowledge, except that it be a knowledge from God. With God, it is not an unsearchable thing, because by His Spirit it is made known, when we seek Him with all our hearts. He has utterly destroyed an addiction in me - I had to ask with all my heart, and from that hour forward it was gone for good.
krononomikon 1 year ago
@krononomikon Something that Paul talked about, that many who like to reject Paul may have missed, is that we suffer for the weaker brother, or in some cases, the weaker sister. Why do we marry only once, besides the fact that God made one woman for one man, and one man for one woman? You are right that jealousy is bad for the soul, and adultery is even worse. But you know what? Adultery also makes jealousy in the ones you say you love, even in polygamy: ask Aisha.
krononomikon 1 year ago
@krononomikon James 5:10,11 - The prophets persevered because of faith
Quran 33:50 and 66:1-6 - the so-called "Prophet" had God make it easy for him, even changing laws for himself.
Matthew 12:32 - Jesus humbled Himself, lowly and as a servant, though He is the eternal Messiah King from God
Quran 33:57 - Muhammad exalted himself, even to make dishonor of him the same as of his god.
Muhammad said we wouldn't believe unless we had clear proof - well, we do believe in God, and this here is proof!
krononomikon 1 year ago
@krononomikon
Now you bring up the issue of polygamy? Its even worse for christians.
mat19:9 '..I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery..'
What happen if the person marries another WITHOUT divorcing his wife , aka polygyny? Its OK according to mat19:9. If you notice , there is no set limit , ie, unlimited polygamy.
In comparison Quran4:3 , 4 is the limit , 1 is recommended.
Compare and tell us which is better
sammy1528 1 year ago
At this stage God began to raise prophets among every people, who preached Islam to them. Each one reminded his people of the lesson they had forgotten. They taught them God-worship, put an end to idol-worship and the practice of shirk, i.e. associating other deities with God, did away with all customs of ignorance, taught them the right way of living in accordance with God's pleasure, and gave them life-giving laws to be followed and enforced in society. (Mawdudi, Towards Understanding Islam,)
muslim9x9x 1 year ago
According to bible:
High priest should marry ONLY VIRGIN
No where bible syas not to do multiple Marriage
In bible having slaves is allowed
so David has no case and just proves and exposed his double standards
xiaahmad 1 year ago
In Bible it is ok to have slave
even In Bible Leviticus 21:14 there are different rules for different ppl that they should marry virgins only
xiaahmad 1 year ago
@ahmalala even Christians believe that David brought the Pslams which in turn makes him a Prophet and Messenger of God not just a king
ayasalman 1 year ago
muhammad is exceptional. i have to pray 5 times a day, he had to pray 6. he had to fast more than we do. he wasnt allowed any charity. he was very exceptional.
phazedreality818 1 year ago
David and Sam are typical christian apologist. If had problem will more than 4 wives of Prophet Muhammed. Than he should also Have problem with David and Solomon who by the way has 700 wives. If he had problem with woman slaves than he should also have problem with all the prophets who have slaves ..including Abraham. ..
ammir1 1 year ago
No prophet is above Gods law. Not even moses was above the laws of the torah. The fact that muhammad was above the law and not confined to it as other proves he cannot be a prophet. False prophets always make themselves above the law they preach.
ahmalala 1 year ago
@ahmalala it shows you did not watch the video
he was not above God's law, is it you who gives laws or God? God is the one who gives exceptions, and specific laws. Case by case. Please use your mind, and not your emotions.
may God guide you.
JibreelK 1 year ago
@ahmalala : No prophet is above law right????. If thats true than David and solomon cant be prophet... and you cant use david and solomon to justify that Jesus was prophesize by them.. Abraham cant be a prophet ...Keep in mind YHWH also claim both Abraham and David where perfect example of those who kept God's Law.
ammir1 1 year ago
@ammir1 David and solomon where just kings and not prophets in the bible. Also, they are in no way said to be the perfect example for humanity like muhammad was in the quran. Christians belief, All have sinned, except jesus. Also, there was no specific restriction on wives in the torah law. However in muhammads case he did preach a law restricting wives among other laws which he did not hold to himself.
ahmalala 1 year ago
@ahmalala : You are wrong. First of your own entire bible act 2:29-30 declare David a prophet. Secondly a prophet is some who prophesize. And you claim that both David and Solomon prophesize about Jesus. So either take ur claim back ur claim or accept that they were prophets. Secondly u wrong again about David was not being an example for mankind yhwh asked Solomon to follow David again and again e.g 1 kings 9:5, 1 kings 11:38.
ammir1 1 year ago
@ahmala: Jesus himself gave example of David when he was caught getting sticks in Sabbath. (Keep in mind there is no such verse in torah which Jesus claims). Lastly torah does tell people not to multiply wives (Deuteronomy).
ammir1 1 year ago
@ammir1 first off. What verse are u quoting from Deuteronomy?
Second regardless whether or not they later became prophets of sorts, your missing the point. It is central to christian belief that all have sinned! Yes David was an example for solomon for the most part in terms of ruling, not a sinnless example for all mankind like muslims claim about muhammad.
ahmalala 1 year ago
@ahmalala : Deut 17 : 14-17 clearly states that the king should not take many wives. Secodly the bible NEVER condem david for taking many wive. The only time God condemn david was about Bath sheba incident not many wive. Similar it dont condemn solomon for taking 700 wives it only condemn it for taking queen sheeba as his wive..
ammir1 1 year ago
@ammir1: lastly all the prophet are example for mankind. Its not about wether they sinned or not . its about wehther they are prophet based on thier action. otherwise one would say hitlor is a prophet and yes we belived all prophets sin and so does hitler.
ammir1 1 year ago
@ammir1 lastly as i stated before we christians believe that all have sinned. Muslims do not believe muhammad ever sinned. Muslims always tell me the prophets were sinless and would never sinned. Only the bible is honest about their human natures. Quran does not tell of our sinful inclinations and therefore islam is not true and muhammad was no better than anyone else and even worse if the hadiths are to be believed.
ahmalala 1 year ago
@ammir1 Dueteronomy suggests he should not acquire many wives, king david did not acquire many wives, maybe a few if not just 2. When david took bathsheba he was harshly punished. Solomon did however he suffered consequences as a result that led him to many troubles. So the bible is clearly not presenting such action as any example to follow.
ahmalala 1 year ago
@ahmalala : ahmalala you knowledge of bible is very week. you dont even know what u defending. David had atleast 8 wives and various concubines....Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines. As i said before David was condemn only for bathsheba because she was already married and David commit adultary with her and than killed her husband.
ammir1 1 year ago
Yhwh didnt punish david , instead of punishing him God killed the little baby who has no fault. similarly solomon was only critizie for queen sheeba who was her 700th wive. NOT for taking multiple wive.
ammir1 1 year ago
@ammir1 Are u crazy? He did punish David in the worst way possible. You lose a child and then tell me whats worse. The child was illegimate and aborted as an example and punishment.
"similarly solomon was only critizie for queen sheeba who was her 700th wive." WtF? Bathsheba was solomons mother. Again u keep missing the point here. He suffers many consequences from his many wives and his decision is portrayed as an error. Your viewing the bible in a narrow and rediculous manner
ahmalala 1 year ago
@ahmalala
still no where it says that having multiple wifes is wrong
xiaahmad 1 year ago
@xiaahmad The point is muhammad preached it was wrong to have more than for wives and did not follow his own rules, he also did not allow certain people to marry multiple wives at all such as Ali because he was married to Fatima was told he had to divorce her if he ever wanted an extra wife. It all shows muhammad was just making up laws which he himself would not follow.
ahmalala 1 year ago
@ahmalala
Explained that b4 that for prophet there are some different rules
like prophet CANNOT RECEIVE ZAKKAT
PROPHET HAS TO OFFER NIGHT PRAYERS
like in bible for High Priest can only marry VIRGIN so different rule
then there are also few rules for kings only.
so Prophet has this special privilege
brother jibreel explaine that if he(PUBH) was making up stuff he could have not given such rule at first nor a verse about not having more wives
so think please
xiaahmad 1 year ago
@xiaahmad No. False prophets always make the mistake of making restrictions they will not want to fulfil in the future. Muhammad probably wasnt expecting to have as many opportunities or temptations. Once presented with them he obviously just created special rules for himself on the spot. All false prophet did it including Joseph smith. All the excuses your using for muhammad are the same they use to try and overlook the obvious.
ahmalala 1 year ago
@ahmalala
Again ur assuming stuff
and showing double standards
as i showed frm bible it self the there can be different rules for different ppl
xiaahmad 1 year ago
@xiaahmad Nope. No prophet was above the law they themselves preached. Muhammad obviously had strong desires and created convenient revelations to fulfill them. You cant convince me god found so important to fulfill muhammads desire that he devoted quran revelation to them allowing to have sex with whoever he wanted and disrespect his own wives and making it seem lawful.
ahmalala 1 year ago
@ahmalala
I have given u examples and ur just in denial :D
xiaahmad 1 year ago
@xiaahmad U havent at all for why muhammad needed so many sexual pleasures and favors from so many woman which is part of your supposes verbatim word of god holy book. The truth is very clear for all to see.
ahmalala 1 year ago
@ahmalala
just think and use ur brain for once
that if he really desired that who could have stopped him from having more like in case of david or Solomon?
so multiple wives were quit common back then
xiaahmad 1 year ago
@xiaahmad Even if that where the case, they did not invent convenient revelations allowing them to do whatever they wanted. Use your head
ahmalala 1 year ago
Is this the only restriction he made? No. What about ALL the other prohibitions that he himself followed? He was offered WOMEN at the very beginning of His prophethood (in Mecca) and he REJECTED the offer, even if the sun and moon were placed in my hands I wouldn't give up ". Those are his exact words, why didn't he accept the offer if He was a sexual pervert? He remained virgin for 25 years, Khadijah OFFERED HERSELF not vice versa. He didn't marry ANY woman until she died.
muslim9x9x 1 year ago
Also, if Muhammad was the author of the Quran, why did he make the "religion" hard on himself? IT was something else (God) speaking TO him. He forbade his companions to pray all night, he said "GOD gave me special power to endure it". He even gave up Honey and GOD criticized him for it. GOD makes it harder for Prophets not his followers, he's superior to them IF Muhammad were a false prophet, he would make the Quran EASY for himself and hard for his companions. But he shared in their struggle.
muslim9x9x 1 year ago
Women offered themselves to Muhammad, one time he declined. A clear Proof he wasn't a sex addict. For years Muhammad never proposed to Khadijah, she did because of His good character The Prophet DID have knowledge of the offers (the temptations), but rejected it. So how could say "he forgedthat on the spot" when the SAME book corrects/ criticizes him? Every charge against the Prophet has been denied 1400 yrs ago, as if GOD was reading YOUR MINDS. And pedophilia charge is absent from the Quran!
muslim9x9x 1 year ago
@muslim9x9x You gave the example of the honey which has little support btw. This was an instance i used as an example to show how allah conveniently revelation came to him allowing him to break his oath and not be prohibited.
ahmalala 1 year ago
@muslim9x9x You are so naieve. Of course if u believe he recieved revelation criticizing a prohibition against himself he would make it seem as if god was rebuking the decision. As God had nothing better to do. lol
ahmalala 1 year ago
@muslim9x9x Muhammad made it easy on himself allowing himself to indulge with many special privilages including sex slaves, just for him btw, sura 33:50
He was such a sex addict he even imagined himself having sex in delusions.
Sahih Bukhari Volume 8, Book 73, Number 89:
Narrated 'Aisha:
The Prophet continued for such-and-such period imagining that he has slept (had sexual relations) with his wives, and in fact he did not.
ahmalala 1 year ago
@ahmalala
Context of Quran33:50 is who 's who for lawful wife '..We have made lawful to thee thy wives..', This is similar to lev18:6-23. If you say Quran33:50 is wrong , TQ and congratulations , you just condemn your bible.
The keyword in Bukhari vol8 , bk73 , no89 is 'WIVES' not 'sexual partners'. This is different with your biblical prophet david who made pregnant the wife of another , bathsheba (2sam11:4) , then sent her husband to die in battle. Is this the teaching of the bible?
sammy1528 1 year ago
@sammy1528 No chrisitan ever claimed David was the perfect example for humanity. Go Back and read my comments before saying anything. we understand he sinned once as all have sinned. Which is why we follow only jesus who could not sin. Muhammad unlike david sin a ton in many different ways and not punished and instead exalted as an example for humanity by the quran. This why muslims will always be backwards
ahmalala 1 year ago
@ahmalala
Isn't biblical david one of the prophets in your bible? If I take literally , biblical david , not prophet daud(as), was/is teaching you christians to take the wife of another. That is teaching by example even breaking one of the 10 commandments. Provide proof of the wrong doing of Prophet Muhammad(saw) according to the bible. The bible is your guidance.
Last time I checked , christians lead in lack of morality. How many sex scandals involve the churches against the mosques?
sammy1528 1 year ago
@sammy1528 No he wasnt teaching anything. He sinned and was punished in the same all men sin at some point. This is the whole point of the sin nature. Muslims dont have this concept and muhammd sinned and sinned while muslims do take his behavior as the highest standard! old men are still marrying baby girls cause of muhammads actions today!
ahmalala 1 year ago
@ahmalala
Look at the christian society , don't you have cases of married men going after the wives of others. Hell , even the priest in churches do so with the sex scandals surfacing. Isn't that following the examples of biblical david? Marrying baby girls? Who did it? Not Prophet Muhammad(saw) and Aishah(ra). They lived as husband and wife after she attained puberty. Even your 'great' shamoun agreed quoting eze16:7-8 as its biblically OK after puberty. You have no issue. Try again
sammy1528 1 year ago
@sammy1528 You keep refering to the actions of mere men like you or me. As a chirstian i understand that men are sinful, whether they live in the west or east they have their sins in society. What im talking about are the actions of prophets we take as our example. Christians only follow Jesus' example who was perfect. You follow muhammad.
ahmalala 1 year ago
@ahmalala
If you follow biblical jesus , why do you guys marry and have children? Biblical jesus in the bible did not marry nor had any children? Isn't the bible the book of guidance for christians? Look at what happened with the sex scandals in the churches , these are supposed to be men of god. They subscribe to a different standards and can absolve each other sins just by confessing to one another? Stop being hypocrites. Christian do not have any platform of morality.
sammy1528 1 year ago
@sammy1528 Jesus told us marry and we follow his teachings. Lol
Your arguments are getting desperate. You keep refering to actions of men and catholics though im not even catholic. lol
Maybe i should look at the actions of shias and impose them on you as a sunni.
ahmalala 1 year ago
@ahmalala
I am not desperate. The desperate one is you and only you. Are you sure its only the catholic church that is involved? Come on , face reality as it should be faced. You say you follow biblical jesus , ok he did not marry and had children in the bible. Why aren't you guys following his example?
Aren't the actions of these men following the teachings from your bible? Again we are challenging you , show us the wrong doings of Prophet Muhammad(saw) following the values from your bible.
sammy1528 1 year ago
@sammy1528 In the bible their where rules for female captives. sex was only for marriage and they where given a full month first/ Men could not just have sex for pleasure like muhammad taught his followers too.
See deuteronomy 21:10-14.
ahmalala 1 year ago
@ahmalala
Read deut21:10-14 carefully. It states '..take her as your wife..'. This means the person who owns the female slave can have sex with the slave as though she was/is his wife. The verse does not say '..take her to be your wife..'. Subtle but big difference.
In the end its sex with the female slave. What will be the rights of the child if the slave bore him a child? In Islam , the child has every and equal inheritance rights. In the bible .... too bad .... no rights for the child.
sammy1528 1 year ago
@sammy1528 Once someone has sex with the slave she becomes his wife! This is perfectly clear. It says, "SHE SHALL BE YOUR WIFE!" deut 21:14 he is no longer allowed to have a her as a slave and she is free forever. Stop lying to yourself
ahmalala 1 year ago
@ahmalala
Who is lying to who? Deut21:11 (niv bible) '..are attracted to her, you may take her as your wife..'. Taking the captive 'as your wife' is different from taking the captive 'to be your wife'.
Again its inconsistency in deut21:14. Refer to deut21:15 , if the man is not satisfied , he lets her go. I thought divorce is prohibited between husband and wife? This means that the so called 'wife' is just by name and marriage.
Who is lying to oneself? You are just in denial.
sammy1528 1 year ago
@sammy1528 Now your just contradicting yourself. lol
The fact that it mentions divorce means they are obviously married so you intentionally tried to lie and say otherwise. It even says in verse 14" you shall go in her and be her husband" You exposed yourself.
And no divorce was okay under the old covenant for the jews.
ahmalala 1 year ago
@ahmalala
I contradicted myself? Don't think so , there is contradiction in deut21:10-14. What is right? Verse 11 says differently compared to verse 14 and verse 15 supports verse 11 as in christianity , divorce is prohibited. In the end , in context , it just sex with slave just as with a wife. The slave becoming the wife is not in the scope at all.
TQ and congratulations , you just exposed yet another contradiction in the bible. Ho ho , now trying to hide under the OT and NT scam issit?
sammy1528 1 year ago
@sammy1528 Your just exposes how desperate and ignorant you are. Your embarassing all muslims with your dishonesty.
Jesus even explains in the NT that moses allowed divorse in the OT.
ahmalala 1 year ago
@sammy1528 Muhammd was the only one who taught his followers to use captives as mere sex objects and i provided hard evidence
ahmalala 1 year ago
@ahmalala
Using captives for sex is a cultural hand down from biblical moses right thru biblical jesus. Islam came , stopped this practice in a gradual manner with (1) consenting sex (2) providing equal inheritance to the child from the sexual union (3) the female slave upon bearing a child cannot be sold and will be a free woman when the master dies. Christians do not have such laws (ie. once a slave , always a slave).
You provided evidence that points back to christianity. To bad ...
sammy1528 1 year ago
@sammy1528 No. Fornication was always prohibited in the bible. Once they had sex, they where required to be married. That was the only function of sex in the bible.
ahmalala 1 year ago
@ahmalala
Deut21:11 does not support what you said about fornication and marriage. Its the opposite really. It allows for sexual intercourse with captives. You are embarrassed as you have been caught out.
Come on , face reality of what is in the bible.
sammy1528 1 year ago
@sammy1528 Your being dishonest. It clearly gives instructions for marriage and divorce if necessary. In any case she becomes a free women. I cant argue with a clear liar. everyone who honest can see your lies. Duet 21:11 which u mentioned clearly says " and u desire to take her as your wife" Your exposing yourself again.
ahmalala 1 year ago
@ahmalala
Exposing myself? Its more of exposing the bible and of course you. Since when does '..take as your wife..' means marrying the lady in concern? I can understand '..take to be your wife..' as marrying the lady.
'Take as your wife' in deut 21:11 is taking the lady and treating her as your wife but not into marrying her. Simple and straight forward.
Who is being dishonest now? Hint hint , wink wink
sammy1528 1 year ago
@sammy1528 Are u really that stupid? It says "to take her to be your wife" ESV
which translation are u even using? even in that translation, If someone said i will take so and so to be my wife, the meaning is clear. she is his wife. This is clear 100% by the whole passage. Your trying bring out some different meaning with no support at all.
ahmalala 1 year ago
@ahmalala
I am exposing you for the bull shitter you are and you don't like it. Too bad for you you have been caught out. Of course 'take so and so to be my wife' meaning you are taking her to be your wife. No issues. However 'take so and so as my wife' meaning you are not marrying her but treating her as your wife. This is exactly in deut21:11 '..you may take her as your wife..'. Bible niv supports me.
Somehow when it doesn't fit you , the bible niv is not good enough?
sammy1528 1 year ago
@sammy1528 It means the exact same thing. Just cause its said in a slightly different way in another translation, doesnt give it a new meaning obviously.
ahmalala 1 year ago
@ahmalala
Naah , it does not have the same meaning. Only in your wish it has the same meaning. Do try again , harder this time
sammy1528 1 year ago
@sammy1528 I already proved to u sex with a slave made her a wife and free. Anyone can read deuteronomy 21:10-14 and see this clearly.
ahmalala 1 year ago
@ahmalala
Go ahead , read deut21:10-14 , its exactly per what I mentioned , that it is ok to have sex with female captives. However there is no biblical law protecting the child borne from such sexual union. That is bad , the man can have sex with a captive but not be responsibe for his child borne by the captive. This is the law of the jungle.
sammy1528 1 year ago
@sammy1528 You dont even know the biblicl laws i have already proven so your claim is not even founded on anything at all. lol
ahmalala 1 year ago
@ahmalala
Ho ho , now I need to know biblical laws to lay claim. In same vein , the same can be said of you about Islamic laws and your claims. It works both ways. You are now trapped and 'knowing / not knowing biblical laws is your escape path'. Come on , be honest with yourself. Slavery , sexual union with captives are hand downs from biblical moses going thru biblical jesus. Its only Islam and Prophet Muhammad(saw) eradicated it bit by bit as it was culturally ingrained.
sammy1528 1 year ago
@sammy1528 You havent quoted anything from quran or hadiths showing that my claims about muhammad and his teachings are wrong. Instead you tried to lie about the bible. lol
ahmalala 1 year ago
@ahmalala
Why should I quote from the hadith or Quran as you don't believe in either. The challenge still remains , prove to us the wrong doing of Prophet Muhammad(saw) according to your bible. Can you do it?
So far you have failed. Your only excuse is that I lied about the bible. Why don't you check the reference I provided. Its there for you to counter check.
sammy1528 1 year ago
@sammy1528 Cause you know you cant back up a thing you say. I am the only quoting any sources from the quran and hadith here. You probably dont even know the sources too well. lol
Btw i can prove muhammad doing wrong according to his own quran, not just the bible.
The quran teaches to stay away from women during their menses, yet i can provide many hadiths showing muhammad broke this law over an over.
ahmalala 1 year ago
@ahmalala
You quote the hadith and Quran but you cannot prove any single point as your argument is in tatters. Making matters worse , such is supported in your bible. So the one who cannot provide any back up to what he says is you and only you.
I take it that you concede this point. Now you are trying to change topic to sex during menses. Ok , try our level best. Lets see where it gets you. I am pretty sure you be crashing in no time.
sammy1528 1 year ago
@sammy1528 I proved every argument with sources. Your just making claims while i keep proving them wrong with evidence. Your afraid of your own islamic sources.
ahmalala 1 year ago
@ahmalala
You proved what argument with Islamic sources? All that you have provided points back to your bible allowing such. If you condemn such , you are condemning your bible. You are in a fix.
Where is it that I we muslims are afraid of our own Islamic sources. Everything you throw , comes back harder at you. BTW , this is enjoyable. Come on , you need to try harder.
sammy1528 1 year ago
@sammy1528 i already proved my points. Now i wanna prove he sinned even according to your own quran.
ahmalala 1 year ago
@ahmalala
What points have you proven? Looks like all of your so called points ended up with you condemning your own bible.
Surely you can do better ..... can you? I am going to let you go off , don't be shy to provide your arguments. Most likely when compared to your bible , your points will come crashing down to earth. Till then .... see ya
sammy1528 1 year ago
@sammy1528 Be honest with yourself muhamad had sex with married and unmarried slave girls and promoted it among his followers in both the quran and hadiths includin
Sahih Bukhari Book 008, Number 3371
ahmalala 1 year ago
@ahmalala
By the way there in no Sahih Bukhari book 8 number 3371. I guess in your copy paste you missed the fact that its sahih muslim. Ok then , pinpoint where in the hadith that Prophet Muhammad( saw) had sex with the captives / slaves. You will have a very hard time. In context , its about him being asked about 'azl'. Prophet Muhammad(saw) gave his opinion.
The bible as in deut21:11 supports such. What is you issue? You have none but trying hard to make an issue out of thin air.
sammy1528 1 year ago
@sammy1528 yes it was sahih muslim. oh well. I have many authentic hadiths to expose muhammad. Even the quran tells its okay to have sex with captive slaves and thats better than hadiths, it refers to them as those whom your right hand possess. Its all over the quran Read sura 33:50 muhammad is given exclusive permission to have sex privilages with various women.
ahmalala 1 year ago
@ahmalala
Quran33:50 says '..We have made lawful to thee thy wives..'. Where does it say 'captive slaves' or 'sex privilages'. Sure you understand what you read? Compare that to lev18:6-29. So what is wrong with the people that has been made lawful to Prophet Muhammad(saw) when referenced to lev18:6-29? TQ and congrats , you just condemn your bible. You again shot yourself in your foot.
Use your brains to think , copy paste arguments do not work.
sammy1528 1 year ago
@sammy1528 Lev 18: 6-29 wtf? these verses refer to not uncovering others nakedness. lol did u even bother to read them? Looks like your the one copy and pasting. lol
ahmalala 1 year ago
@ahmalala
Are you sure you know what you are talking about? Lev18:6-29 is about 'Unlawful Sexual Relations' as stated in the niv bible. Looks like you are getting from bad to worse.
Cool down , take a breather , refer to lev18:6-29. Don't panic.
sammy1528 1 year ago
@ahmalala
Are you sure you know what you are referring to? lev18:6-29 is about 'Unlawful Sexual Relations' per the niv bible.
Cool down , take a breather , refer to the actual lev18:6-29. Don't panic.
sammy1528 1 year ago
@sammy1528 yup. fornication is not allowed anywhere in the bible. In cases where they occur, marriage is required, this is also clear by the many verses i showed u. Whether slave or free marriage is necessary for sex. This is the truth.
ahmalala 1 year ago
@ahmalala
Hmm , fornication is not allowed I see. Ok that means you just condemn you bible as deut21:11 says sex with captives is ok.
What about incest? Bibical judah and tamar , gen38:16 , giving birth to parez the ancestor of biblical jesus per the geneologies in mat1 and luk1. Uh-oh , I guess , fornication is not ok but incest is ok in the bible yeah. Hmmm
sammy1528 1 year ago
@sammy1528 No. Deut 21 is instructions for marriage which involves sex. Stop with the lies already. lol
And dont try to change the subject.
ahmalala 1 year ago
@ahmalala
Issit? The online niv bible states of deut21:11 as '..you may take her as your wife..'. We have gone thru this and you have no answer to the difference between 'take her as your wife' against 'take her to be your wife'. Big difference yeah. In deut21:11. The former treat the captive as a wife (ie. have sex with her) but not into marrying her.
The one changing the subject is you not me.
You have been give so much time yet you only repeat refuted arguments. Poor
sammy1528 1 year ago
Comment removed
sammy1528 1 year ago
@sammy1528 Regarding sura 33:50 read the whole verse. "we have made lawful for thee.....and those whom your right hand possess out of the capives of war.. the daughters of uncles..aunts..women who give themselves..etc..."this is only for thee, and not for the believers at large"
ahmalala 1 year ago
@ahmalala
Ok , what is your issue with Quran33:50? Didn't it say '..We have made lawful to thee thy wives..' in the beginning of the verse? There is no conflict with the conditions in lev18:6-29.
What standard are you using for your measurement. You are a christian , your bible is your value. Looks like you are having double or triple standards. This is a very weak argument from you. You don't even have a set of values that is used as your measurement.
Oops , its comes back harder at you.
sammy1528 1 year ago
@sammy1528 according to the verse muhammad had privilages as stated in the verse, "only for thee" he also allowed followers to have sex for the sake of sex without marriage with captives. Such fornications are prohibited in the bible. Thats my measurement as u say.
ahmalala 1 year ago
@ahmalala
Gee whiz , deut22:11 (niv bible) says its ok to have sex with female captives. Guess , if it ever took place , is not wrong from the context of the bible. You have these problems (1) prove that Prophet Muhamad(saw) ever had sex with a female captive (2) prove its wrong from the bible.
In both counts , you have failed. Do try again , put a bit more effort this time around.
See you later guy .... don't be shy to argue ....
sammy1528 1 year ago
@sammy1528 "deut22:11 (niv bible) says its ok to have sex with female captives."
WTF? It says "you shall not wear cloth of wool and linen together" deut 22:11 lol
ahmalala 1 year ago
@ahmalala
Oh well , should be deut21:11 instead of deut22:11. Looks like you are clutching straws , typos will be typos. What is the issue?
The challenge remain , prove to us the wrong doing of Prophet Muhammad(saw) according to the values of your bible. So far you have provided is nil , nada , BS etc. Do try again.
sammy1528 1 year ago
@sammy1528 The verse is perfectly clear. I obviously already proved my point so i can move on. Besides its just one of many many reasons why islam is wrong.
Now i can move to the quran itself. The quran is full of errors despite the fact that even one disproves the quran. There is nothing believable in islam.
ahmalala 1 year ago
@ahmalala
Naah , its not clear as reasons already stated. You cannot even challenge the points that were made. You want to move on , ok , I take that this point has been conceded by you as you cannot prove any wrong doing of Prophet Muhammad(saw) according to the values of your bible.
Quran full of errors? This is classic comedy with you being the lead clown. Just save us all of our time and post your link of such 'errors'. The muslim bros or I can just post the link refuting it. What say you?
sammy1528 1 year ago
@sammy1528 No i wanted to move on cause i proved by arguments beyond any doubt and you never bring any sort of valid evidence to refute them and i have many problems with the quran which muslims cant answer so far such as the following,
continued..
ahmalala 1 year ago
@ahmalala
Now its just ignoring deut21:11. Ok by me as its you who conceded. Are we supposed to be sacred of your claim that we cannot answer to Quran33:38? Where does it say the sun revolves around the earth? Don't waste our time with copy paste arguments. Provide the list and the link , any one here can post the web link refuting your copy paste argument. You are now behaving like a spammer.
BTW , what do you see when standing facing a huge lake facing sunset?
sammy1528 1 year ago
@sammy1528 Nope its my own argument. I have more and muslims have no good answers for them. They are clear errors that muhammad believed
ahmalala 1 year ago
@ahmalala
Oh I see , its your own argument. Ok then , pinpoint where in Quran36:38 that states the sun revolves around the earth. It says that the sun runs on its course in a determined period. Doesn't the sun has its own orbit?
I repeat my advice , science is not your forte , just stick to copy paste arguments , you will not look so bad.
sammy1528 1 year ago
@sammy1528 Sura 36:38 "And the sun runs to its resting place, for him" Notice the word run, meaning it is revolving and going to ITS RESTING PLACE.
The implication is perfectly clear but your probably gonna try and deny though its 100% clear and undeniable.
ahmalala 1 year ago
@ahmalala
Yusuf Ali translation , Quran36:38 '..the sun runs his course for a period determined for him..'. Doesn't 'course for a period determined' means the period of the sun's orbit? Looks like your beef is with translation of the Quran and not the Quran itself. Ok then , point out to us in arabic where in context it says 'resting place'. Can you do that?
Let see how good is your arabic. You have been moaning about us muslims not knowing hebrew , lets see if you adhere to your own standard.
sammy1528 1 year ago
@sammy1528 Thats what is says, read the rest of the verse. Also as i before the quran mentions alexander the great reaching the edge of the earth and seeing the sun into a pool of water. You cant deny something so obvious.lol
ahmalala 1 year ago
@ahmalala
You are running away changing your stance again. What has happened to your contention of Quran36:38? You suddenly realised that you are wrong huh? Now its the BS that zulkarnain reached the 'ends of the earth'? Care to pinpoint where in Quran18:83-99 where it states 'ends of earth'. Not bull shitting again are you?
You have not answered my question. What do you see when you stand facing a huge lake facing the setting sun?
sammy1528 1 year ago
@sammy1528 No im just pointing out all the problems with the verse. I never said there was only one error, i said there where many errors. IT doesnt say lake. It says pool of murky water. Implying a small body of water. I can even bring hadith proving points further, both verses confirm the sun is revolving and going to its resting place as alexander is said to have witness in quran
ahmalala 1 year ago
@ahmalala
I take it you previous comment of 'ends of earth' in Quran18 is pure BS as you have evaded answering on it. Now its a small body of water. On what criteria? Pinpoint where in surah18 that says the sun revolve around the earth going to its resting place. I am sure you will avoid answering this one ..... again.
sammy1528 1 year ago
@sammy1528 the mere fact that it doesnt mention the movement of the earth and constantly mentions the movement of the sun around the earth should even be enough evidence plus the alxander thing, and the other verse clearly saying it runs to its resting place and hadith confirms it even further. You must either be insane or lying. lol
ahmalala 1 year ago
@ahmalala
If you have evidence , pinpoint it in the said verses. Don't go around like a headless with no sense of direction. You are just running in circles chasing your own backside.
Challenge the answer and provide evidence of your claim. Judging by your empty rhetoric , you do not have any argument.
sammy1528 1 year ago
@sammy1528 i already did, your closing your eyes and ears. the evidence is rock solid. lol you need to prove that it says the earth revolves.
ahmalala 1 year ago
@ahmalala
One liners are not answers. Where is the proof and evidence of your claims. Until now we have not seen anything from you except BS. I don't need to prove anything at this moment as you have not even stated your case coherently. We actually do not know what you are trying to say.
sammy1528 1 year ago
@sammy1528 the verses are clear and many have even made videos about them using the quran and hadiths Your the only one in denial here lol
ahmalala 1 year ago
@ahmalala
You made videos doesn't mean you are right. It just show that you are capable to make videos.
Bring something with tangible evidence and pinpoint where is the proof. One liners is a sign of a weak argument. Come on , we are waiting. This is boring.
sammy1528 1 year ago
@sammy1528 Can u even read? im really starting to wonder.. lol
I said many others have made videos and i sent u one. learn to read and stop following your prophets illiteracy
ahmalala 1 year ago
@ahmalala
So what if these nut jobs made videos? It just mean that they can make videos. It doesn't mean that when they can produce videos , they are right.
Come on , we are still waiting for your so called arguments that no muslim can refute. Are we supposed to shake in fear of such arguments? I bet most of us are laughing our butts off.
sammy1528 1 year ago
@sammy1528 I viewed there videos and they noticed all the errors in quran i noticed. SO many errors in that book lol. But im sure u have some crazy nonsensical explanation for each one of them lol
ahmalala 1 year ago
@ahmalala
Ho ho , so many errors in the Quran yeah?? The so called errors which you claim will send us muslims scurrying for cover ...... where is it? Data talks bull shit walks .... remember that in life.
sammy1528 1 year ago
@sammy1528 For instance, HUMAN Muhammad making the human error of thinking Mary the mother of Jesus was Miriam of the Old Testament. Why? He not only calls her "daughter of Amran", but "sister of Aaron"; then he tries to cover it up by saying they used to say things like that to honor people, when there was never any such custom! Also, Mary was never from that bloodline - she came through the house of Judah from David!
krononomikon 1 year ago
@krononomikon The whole CORE of errors in the Quran can be demonstrated by how it says it attests to the truth of the Torah (which is not changed since even before Jesus) and what Jesus said, yet it completely goes against what they said! OT prophesies Jesus' resurrection and eternal life, Jesus proclaims it, it happens, and then the Quran denies it, not even understanding why things had to happen as they do...
We want you to come out from under the lies: read the Bible, and ask God for help!
krononomikon 1 year ago
@krononomikon
Come on guy. 'mary sister of aaron' is an argument that has been refuted time and time again. You are years behind time.
Consider the following ;
mat1:1 '..Jesus Christ the son of David, the son of Abraham..'
Actual son or 'honoring'?
What is not correct about the hadith?
Mark3:35 '..Whoever does God's will is my brother and sister and mother."..'
Is it not similar to the hadith of honouring people?
sammy1528 1 year ago
@sammy1528 lol, no one EVER called someone "sister of someone" as an honor... as far as "daughter of such and such", that's because they were DESCENDED from them! So they are actually their "daughter" or "son"...
the point is that Muhammad said "oh, people used to say such and such like this" when they actually didn't. The point is that Muhammad is a fallible human being!
What makes more sense? So why don't they call other people "mother of Jesus"? That's a twisting of reality, friend...
krononomikon 1 year ago
@krononomikon Let me explain it like this with the mother, brother, sister:
It's not for any man's honor, but it's for God's glory! How, one may ask? Well, He said whoever does God's will is my mother, brother, and sister. Those that are close to Him. How do we find a corroboration? He also said, if you love me, do my Father's commands. So it's their relationship with Him inside, their love, and not an honor to them by men. It is God's glory in them, and through Jesus!
krononomikon 1 year ago
@krononomikon
You have answered your own question. Prophet Aaron(as) glorified Allah and did the will of Allah as you pointed out '..my father's commands..'. Mary being a pious lady has been aligned to him on the basis of her doing the will of Allah. One of the reasons she was called 'sister of aaron'.
You sure you know what you are talking about?
sammy1528 1 year ago
@sammy1528 The point is that no one ever said "such and such brother of such and such" out of reverence for that person. And what would Mary have to do with the Levitical priesthood? She was not a Levite! Why not say "sister of Moses", since it was Moses that brought the Law? Yet no one says that...
what is Mary in Arabic? مريم
what is Miriam in Arabic? مريم
Not surprised he says Aaron's sister, when Aaron's sister is Miriam; Amran's daughter!
Surahs 19:27,28 and 66:12 3:33-45
krononomikon 1 year ago
Comment removed
sammy1528 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@krononomikon
'No one has ever said such brother of such and such out of reverence of that person'? Reverence to the person or god? mark3:35 attest to that.
There is no specific biblical reference of mary's lineage. The closest one is luk1:35 stating of her and elizabeth being cousins ; elizabeth being a descendant of aaron luk1:5.
That is all you have.
To us muslims , aaron is Prophet Harun(as).
The confusion stems from you , Maryam / miriam is the arabic / hebrew equivalent of mary.
sammy1528 1 year ago
@sammy1528 That doesn't mean anything. My cousins are Swedish, and I have no Swedish blood in me. They get that from their father, while my aunt is from my mom's side, and my uncle is not blood-related. The conclusion can't be drawn through that!
About Mary being the same as Miriam, that's my whole point... It wasn't any difference to Muhammad either, thus the error of calling the mother of Jesus the same person as Amran's daughter and Aaron's sister. The "honor" thing doesn't explain Amran
krononomikon 1 year ago
@krononomikon Paul didn't do God's will based on what? Torah law? Muhammad broke Torah law... Also, if you're still not satisfied, read the Surah 3:50, where it says Jesus was sent to make a portion lawful which was forbidden before... so how can you accuse Paul for anything, especially when you say "because Muhammad was chosen", he gets to have unlawful privileges above his subjects? Paul though DID do Torah law, and proves it in Acts, at the suggestion of the Twelve.
krononomikon 1 year ago
@krononomikon Yes, Hosanna to the son of David! Jesus, as far as the human lineage, is descended from David, thus the "son of David". This was not an "honor" title. The closest thing to any kind of honor would be for instance "sons of Thunder", which Jesus named the brother Apostles, and "son of encouragement", which Barnabas was called. When used with people, it denoted their relationship. I call people I love "brother", but if his name was Jack, no one would say I was "brother of Jack"!
krononomikon 1 year ago
@krononomikon They didn't use that back then, or else it would be in the Bible. Furthermore, it didn't make sense to the Christians and Jews living there, or else the complaint wouldn't have been brought to Muhammad at all! Come on, man... it's just common sense! By twisting, I mean assuming that because someone is brother in love, that it assumes one calls them "brother of such and such" when they never did historically! Jesus' brother in love and God's glory, not a title for men's honor...
krononomikon 1 year ago
@krononomikon
Its not in the bible? mark3:35 '..Whoever does God's will is my brother and sister and mother..' , mat21:9 '..Hosanna to the Son of David!..'.
You are denying the obvious.
Where is the alleged twisting of facts? The references has been provided as is. You still cannot refute the statement 'sister of aaron' in the Quran as the bible also uses such expression.
Again you are being inconsistant.
sammy1528 1 year ago
@krononomikon
Whaaat?? Jesus is descended from david?? For your information
(1) biblical jesus had no father
(2) the lineage is from the bloodline of the father
How do you manage to conclude biblical jesus is the lineage of david?
Isn't 'sons of thunder' an association to something? Isn't it the same as the people back then who associate themselves with apostles / pious people?
You are going in circles denying but then acknowledge 'association of honor'. Thats pretty inconsistant
sammy1528 1 year ago
@krononomikon
Which Torah law did Prophet Muhammad(saw) broke? What is wrong with Prophet Isa(as) making lawful what was unlawful before. The law came from Allah , Allah has 'absolute rights' over it.
Who is paul? Biblical jesus know him? Did biblical jesus walked , talked with him prior to him going away?
How come Paul's so called god circumcised on the 8th day but circumcision to Paul was neither here nor there?
On whose authority paul became an apostle? His own?
sammy1528 1 year ago
@krononomikon
What is this about swedish blood etc? Simple question ' are you brothers in christ'? Yes or no?
Prophet Muhammad(saw) was not confused when he stated that the people of old associate themselves to apostles / pious people. You are confused. You still have not answered on mat21:9 of biblical jesus being addressed as 'son of david'.
sammy1528 1 year ago
@sammy1528 for instance, it's not known what house Mary's aunts come from - for all we know, her aunt (being of Judah) could have married a man from Levi, a Levite, thus making her cousin descended from Aaron, while she is a Judahite.
Yes, the lineage is through the man, which is why both lineages are said to be fathers of Joseph. Joseph didn't have two gay dads - one is his step-father!
Muhammad took Safiyah Bint Huyeiy Ibn Akhtab from war before the 30 required days by in Deuteronomy 21:13...
krononomikon 1 year ago
@krononomikon ...in addition to foregoing the 30-day mourning law of MERCY, Muhammad permits adultery with slaves through Quran 4:24 and 23:5,6.
According to the flesh, he most certainly did descend from David. Also, that was a sign of the Messiah, as said in Acts 13:22,23.
I'm not saying it was an honor to any human being that a man was named after, except for their descendant, which is of the flesh. "Sons of Thunder" is like Jacob called Israel, which is "Prince of God".
krononomikon 1 year ago
@krononomikon The WHOLE PROBLEM with the Muhammad thing is this, put simply:
Muhammad says "they used to name themselves after those who came before them".
Sure, Mary is Mary, and Moses' sister was Mary. But misidentifying someone as saying "she is the sister of her ancestor"? That never happened.
If you can't understand the difference between that proposal and between being brothers in love, of which NO TITLE WAS ORDERED ANYWAY, then there is no point in continuing!
krononomikon 1 year ago
@krononomikon As far as the Paul thing with circumcision, understand what he's saying when he says "those who want to circumcise you don't care about you, but only want to add you to them". That's the sign that they would do when making a proselyte. So if Jesus was against the Pharisees for crossing land and sea to win a single proselyte, yet making them twice the son of hell as them, how would Paul be contradictory in saying "don't do it because they simply want to add to their numbers"?
krononomikon 1 year ago
@krononomikon
Its the other way around actually. Paul not stressing on circumcision (in this case) is ample proof that he 'simply want to add to their numbers'. Look at it this way , the so called god in biblical jesus was circumcised on the 8th day , why did paul not preach in the way of biblical jesus?
Its obvious. To appeal to the gentiles. Paul sacrificed a 'principle' in order to win converts. This , I am afraid is dishonest in his part.
sammy1528 1 year ago
@sammy1528 Acts 15:6-11 about the supposedly "Pauline" doctrine on not being circumcised. They were GENTILES! This is also why a lot of Christians don't follow a lot of Mosaic laws, because they were made to set the Israelites apart. That's why Jews today say "the Muslims think they are the people of God". Even in Mosaic law, the most important thing was circumcision of the heart! If Paul was trying to prevent people from being circumcised for no reason, he wouldn't have circumcised Timothy
krononomikon 1 year ago
@krononomikon And still, you're arguing about laws, when Muhammad said of Jesus, He has come to make a portion of what's unlawful, lawful?
Did you read Leviticus 19:20-22? It is not permitted, it is FORBIDDEN! It says right there that the punishment is SCOURGING! It is only counted as less than adultery (so they are not killed) because she was not free i.e. she had no choice in the matter. There was also to be a tresspass offering... Did Muhammad do these things? No, he permitted them!
krononomikon 1 year ago
@krononomikon About brotherly love, here are some verses:
1 John 4:7-11 (whoever is God's loves)
Romans 12 (love with brotherly love, because we're all of the same Christly, spiritual body, the Church)
Hebrews 13 ("continue in brotherly love", Timothy is a brother in the Church)
By love we know God, doing His commands in that same Spirit of Truth, but not as empty rules, because the Law is for those who don't know their right hand from their left, and must be forced to behave. In this we are His
krononomikon 1 year ago
@krononomikon In this we are His brothers, doing God's commands. However, if anyone from back then thought that calling someone "son of such and such" was a custom of honor, how come no one picked up on it?
Psalm 132, Jeremiah 23:5, Jeremiah 33:15 (from the line of David)
Psalm 110:1, Zechariah 12:10-14 (God is pierced by Jerusalem?)
Matthew 1:1, Matt. 1:20, Matt. 9:27, Matt. 22:42-45 (Jesus and His pre-existence - because they thought He'd be descended from David?)
krononomikon 1 year ago
@krononomikon In this light, it really doesn't even matter whether or not Mary was from David, because it still cancels out the notion that people "honored" others by saying "oh, sister of such and such"! They never did such a thing! Again, those followers were called the brethren, being in the body of Christ. We call each other brothers, but no one says "brother of Jesus", "sister of Jesus", and as far as a daughter, what was Amran that she was his daughter?
krononomikon 1 year ago
@krononomikon
They never did such thing? The crowd shouting 'jesus son of david' is proof of such. Biblical jesus's admission of mark3:35 is proof of such.
No where in the bible , people of biblical jesus contemporary believed him to be god.
mark3:35 '..Whoever does God's will is my brother and sister and mother."..', Hmm its very different from your claim of they never did such thing'.
Mary was Imran's daughter but that was not a show stopper of of the people calling her 'sister of aaron'.
sammy1528 1 year ago
@krononomikon
You are running around in circles. Simple question. Is biblical jesus being called 'son of david' the same expression of mary called 'sister of aaron'?
Mark 3:35 says 'yes'. If you disagree , provide your reasoning.
They 'thought' jesus descended from david? A person with no biological father can be 'thought' to be a descended of david? Beats me .... really
sammy1528 1 year ago
@krononomikon
What is the issue of jesus making lawful what was not lawful?
Lev19:20-22? You have misunderstood the verse. '..slave girl promised to another man but who has not been ransomed..' Its not permitted to have sex with a slave if the slave has been 'presold' or 'promised to be sold' to another.
Ok then , provide your evidence that Prophet Muhammad(saw) had sex with his slaves when they were 'promised' to another.
Historical facts states that Prophet Muhammad(saw) freed his slaves.
sammy1528 1 year ago
@sammy1528 the verse itself says it in Quran 33:50. Also that Muhammad could marry his cousins. There's a difference between someone happening to do it, and someone saying God changed His mind about it being right for people to do it. What's worse is that he makes God out to take partiality with His law! There really is no getting around that character change.
Contrast to King David who, when he saw a woman he liked, had her husband at the frontlines so he died, but he cried with repentance!
krononomikon 1 year ago
@krononomikon I mean the very substance of what Muhammad cares about is summed up in his description of the reward in the everlasting for believers. That is completely against the biblical heaven. Knowing the fruit of the Spirit, and knowing that the Spirit is a first installment of what is to come, and knowing that we will "be like the angels in heaven", how is it that we will live a natural and fleshly eternity, to fulfill our own, selfish desires? In our hearts it's irreconcilable by faith.
krononomikon 1 year ago