What if I didn't want free will ad God gave it to me anyway? That means I never really had free will if there is a God because he imposed the free will on me and I didn't have the free will to chose whether I wanted it or not ;)
God gives man free will in the same way Mao Zedong gave man free will. You have the option to either worship them or suffer their punishment. That's why God is your king and not your president.
I like a God that offers but does not impose. But that is a God does not know the future and I can surprise him everyday! Of course, that means he is not all knowing.
If your belief makes you a happy camper than that should be enough. Attempting to force or at the very least impose your beliefs on to others propses the idea that in fact you "aren't" as happy as you claim to be. Why else would you be so hell bent on converting everyone with a brain and the will to use it?
He didn't cast us overboard. A man who would refuse the life preserver brings death upon himself. He did create man without sin. Suffering is a result of our sin. He is all powerful and all loving. Until you get your own universe you don't get to decide what is just and unjust.
@ndrummer99 I find it very hard to believe in a god who would give us intelligence, reason, and our 5 senses and yet expect us to discover his existance by some other means that we have no access to. If god created the universe then he also created physics, mathematics, biology, and science in general. Yet science cannot prove the existence of a deity. Logically, I can draw but one conclusion.
@IGrimReaperI All of those things point to Him. He also created us spiritual beings. That's why every people group has religious belief. It's foolish to deny His existence.
@ndrummer99 "All of those things" It's as if you don't even understand what I'm saying. For the record though, I can't deny someone's existence if they never existed in the first place. All I can do is doubt using the reason and logic that I was born with. You have the option to forfeit your cognitive faculties to gain salvation apparently, but I don't believe it's worth it. I prefer being able to think for myself rather than be commanded to think a certain way.
@IGrimReaperI I know what you are saying, but you are right i don't understand it. You weren't born with the concept there is no God. That is something that has been taught to you mainly by your rebellious heart. You have lifted your heart in pride thinking somehow your intelligence disproves the one who gave you your intelligence. You are dead wrong, it is so worth it. Trusting in God over your limited understanding is the best thing you could do. Think for yourself, but don't assume falsely.
@ndrummer99 You have no knowledge of how I came to realize that religion if false. You assume it was my "rebellious heart". I merely thought about it. I asked myself, what if god doesnt exist? It was someting that I was afraid to even think. I thought I would go to hell for merely doubting gods existence. Thats how brainwashed I was. Christians teach that kind of horrific bullshit to you when youre too young to understand it and so you grow up believing it.
@ndrummer99 Well if you mean the Christian god, that was easy. The self contradicting and hypocritic bible is the only evidence that christianity has, and lets face it, its horrible. If you mean God in general, I can't discover or prove god doesnt exist, but I never made that claim to begin with. All the evidence just points against gods existence, it doesnt mean he doesnt really exist. But its just as probable that Zeus doesnt exist. Its a fallacy to approach things like that though.
@IGrimReaperI How is the Bible self-contradicting? I'm an ardent student of it and most of the claimed contradictions I've come across are poor understandings and misinterpretations by people who have little Bible knowledge and have already made up their mind it's false.
@ndrummer99 The fact that you have to interpret the bible in a way that makes the contradictions disappear is enough for me to doubt it. Many who believe in the bible have to cherry pick the things they believe to be literal and "interpret" the things they dont like and call them metaphorical. Im not going to convince you here and I have no intention to, but if you dont believe there is any contradiction in the bible then im sorry to say that this conversation is over.
@IGrimReaperI So the Bible can't contain literal and non-literal statements. Let me ask you something is everything you say literal? If I said Bob let the cat out of the bag or this job is a prison would you really say I'm a liar? 30% of the old testament is poetry. The new testament is chock full of parallelisms. It's not bias. It's a literary fact.
@ndrummer99 It does have both, and thats why its a terrible book to live your life by. People interpret it in different ways to suit there needs, thats why there are so many christian sects. Why are no two interpretations ever the same? Everyone can agree on some things but there are far to many disputes for this book to have any real truth to it. Science is universal, no one in the middle east is disputing the idea that water is 2 parts hyrogen and 1 part oxygen.
@ndrummer99 what exactly are the criteria upon which you distinguish literal from non-literal statements? as long as there are none, every distinction is useless and arbitrary.
in most cases, the barbaric/immoral or scientifically insuportable passages are the ones that are said to be metaphorical. this, of course, isnt very persuasive and helpful.
furthermore, saying that you are able to distinguish between literal and non-literal statements has a HUGE hidden implication: it means that you,...
@ndrummer99 ... an imperfect human being, knows the hidden thoughts and ideas of the creator of the universe and can decode his message. for me, even though i dont believe in a god, this looks like exorbitant hubris.
the creator of everything that exists would have surely cosidered the deficiencies of human language, e.g. that WHO receives a message is at least (if not more) important than the message itself, and therefor use a better method than uncertain and doubtful human language...
@ndrummer99 ...to reveal his will to his creation. consider that, if there was a biblical god, your actions decide whether you spend eternity in unlimited pain and torture or not. if your existence in eternity is at stake, you cannot rely on uncertain interpretations, you need certainty.
the shortcomings of human language is the reason why science makes use of exact definitions and terms, so that the impact of individual interpretations can be reduced.
@masterhans The Word of God is certain. There is a prescribed way of discovering it's original meaning. It's called hermeneutics. Studying the Bible is one of the greatest privileges and joys we have.
@ndrummer99 So your god is such an ineffective communicator that his "word" has to be "interpreted"? Even the freaking aliens in Star Trek all spoke clear English.
@lewisner You will never understand the Word of God as long as you see it through the lens of emotionally antipathetic repulsion. All written language must be interpreted for meaning. I can read Shakespeare and interpret what he wrote as something entirely different than what he meant. To truly know what a book means you must know the author. That is why you can't understand the Bible.
@ndrummer99 Shakespeare was not supposed to be the creator of the Universe but he wrote eloquent prose which didn't contradict itself and is still easy to understand today. Your god is a buffoon.
II SAMUEL 24:13: So God came to David, and told him, and said unto him, shall SEVEN YEARS OF FAMINE come unto thee in thy land? or will thou flee three months before thine enemies, while they pursue. thee?
I CHRONICLES 21:11: SO God came to David, and said unto him, Thus saith the LORD, Choose thee. Either THREE YEARS OF FAMINE or three months to be destroyed before thy foes, while that the sword of thine enemies overtaketh thee;
@lewisner It's most possible both are correct. God was threatening another 3 years of famine. There had already been 3 years due to Saul's sin. (2 Samuel 21:1) They were currently in a year of famine and God was now threatening another three. I'm no math expert, but 3+1+3=7.
@lewisner You can invent as many contradictions as you want. The Bible is the most scrutinized book of all time, yet it has held up under such scrutiny and remains alive and well. I am totally convinced the Christian faith is the most coherent worldview around. The greatest incoherency lies in those who attack it.
@ndrummer99 I searched "Contradictions in the bible" and there are pages of them. You believe the bible because you want to believe it. That's the nature of faith - nothing could convince you that you are wrong. Hindu's and Sikh's are just as convinced that you are wrong as you are convinced that they are wrong. The atheist position is that all of you are wrong. One day in the future people will read the history of religion with incredulity.
@lewisner So the very "contradictions" you are proposing to me aren't even ones you yourself have honestly come by? They are instead most likely the collection of someone who has spent more time trying to disprove the Bible than actually study it. You are fighting for a lost cause. The world will never be rid of religion. Man is a spiritual being. Defeating Christianity will only usher in another religion like Islam. Man will always have a spiritual need. It’s the way we were created.
@ndrummer99 I'm honest enough to say thats how I found the list , yes. I have a real life and arguing with xtians is just amusement to me. In the UK a recent government survey found that 44% of the population was atheist but that rose to 66% among 18-24 year olds. They will have kids who will be raised atheist and your religion will increasingly be confined to old people. Islam is about 4% maximum and will never be enough to wield serious power.
@ndrummer99 Just the opposite actually because we go around sinning and having unprotected sex while you guys are at bible class. Anyway I'm done with this convo. Bye
@lewisner Pleasure talking to you. I don't know if I will ever speak to you again so I just want to encourage you to reconsider your beliefs about God. I can't help but marvel that I am swimming in this boundless sea of wonders called the universe. I believe that the magic of the universe must have meaning, and meaning must have someone to mean it. I pray as you journey through this life you find the giver of that meaning .
@ndrummer99 Religion, Christianity especially, doesnt want you think think for yourself. I know because I used to be one. I was never told to read the bible, interpret it, and ask myself whether or not I actually believe it, I was just told all of these things and expected to believe them because "jesus died for me". There was no thought on my part, I just accepted it. What else was I to do? There wasnt a choice given to me. I was too young to understand it.
@ndrummer99 I'm Sorry, but your comment doesn't get you any closer to the point. Thats like saying you should be praised for throwing a drowning man a life preserver, whom you cast overboard in the first place. He could have created man without sin, without suffering, eternally if he is indeed all powerful. So what does this say about God? It says that he is either NOT omnipotent, NOT all good, or simply does not exist.
Which came first God's substance ( His Spirit ) or His moral Character love, truth, compassion,etc. They are simultaneous of course. Therefore for God to exist in self existing Life His Virtues and Attributes are His substance ( Spirit Life ). God is determined by Virtue in perpetual Life and cannot suspend Himself in Attribute or Virtue for in so doing would suspend His own Life. Hence it is impossible for their to be free will A power or knowledge not ordained by God.God is the only free will.
it seems hitchens is demonstrating his freewill perfectly, he simply rejects Gods warning of impending danger, as do the majority of all, "broad is the road that leads to destruction, narrow is the path that leads to life, few who find it". would the scriptures be better if God provided no warning of eternal separation from Him?
Proverbs 16;9In his heart a man plans his course, but the LORD determines his steps.Proverbs 19:21 Many are the plans in a man's heart, but it is the LORD's purpose that prevails.
Proverbs 20:24 A man's steps are directed by the LORD. How then can anyone understand his own way?
Jeremiah 10:23 I know, O LORD, that a man's life is not his own; it is not for man to direct his steps.
Man has NO FREE WILL,even the atheist's steps are determined by God.Jesus came to die for HIS PEOPLE alone.
@CBALLEN So God hates me and wants me to go to hell, because he made me an atheist. And he hates all homosexuals, Jews, Muslims, Mormons, Catholics, and pretty well anyone who doesn't think like you. Very Christian of you.
@SuperMellix no but if he has called out to you you reject him continue doing so whose fault is that he works through people his word your heart. dont blame others. God hates sin.
@dougbear2004 Well then your God has funny perceptions of sin. Killing, incest, genocide and rape is fine but loving someone of the same sex is off limits?! Get real, and just self reflect on the stuff you are taught to be believing.
@MrrGrave Never blame things on God's sovereignty that are actually the result of your irresponsibility. All the evil in the world is a result of our sin. We are arrogant to judge God.
@ndrummer99 Lets not forget that sin is God's creation in the first place. To be the author of sin and suffering, making humanity capable of it, and then absolving yourself from all responsibility from it is the height of absurdity. I'm sorry, but your argument is weak at best.
@Nucl3arTeacup God did not create sin. Sin is that which is not of God. God created everything in the beginning, but He didn't create what his creation became. It's simple minded to say God is responsible for sin being that he created us.
@ndrummer99 I disagree, I dont think its simpleminded at all. It's a christian's assertion that god is omnipotent. EVEN IF, i concede you the point that God didnt directly create sin, he DID at least have foreknowledge of it coming into existence, and allowed it to happen. If i might draw a comparison to the SAW movies, sure the unwilling victims had an opportunity to escape if they made the right decisions, does that make the author of the horrid traps and tests innocent? I think no
@bluesrockfan36 Pretty damn sure lol You can look it up. I have. And the definition for Agnostic is a person who believes that the existance of God is unknown and unknowable.
@bluesrockfan36 No its not. Atheists do not believe in a supreme being. Agnostics really have no opinion when it comes to wether or not a god exists while atheists on the other hand disbelieve in the existance of god.
Couldn't find you comment mikese93 but my mail said what you wrote. Two people WITH an audience and a moderator. You believe in hell and that's enough dogma for me. It's doesn't even have to go as far as the "holy" books and I thought you were giving up. Goddamn liar.
@clipsryan as opposed to youtube. go take care of the animals. isn't that more important than trying to embarrass some psycho on youtube or whatever it is you think you're doing?
you truly disgust me, both of you. why is it, that you ask questions, with no intent of hearing the answer? such an act is a clear sign of evil. your strategy is to attack every part of what I'm saying, but not honestly, only in a very anal retentive, technical way. I say "I believe God is good", you say "but you said this" I say, "that's why I said this", you say, "but the bible says this" I say "fuck the bible" and you say "but all religion says this". it's insulting to my intelligence
You are an insignificant mere human. So why do you talk for God?. Why do you tell me what he does and doesn't do, when you can't even understand the key elements of the Christian philosophy?.
You're just a bloodthirsty barbarian, born in the wrong age. If I disgust you, then I'm glad, because if you felt that my viewpoints are somehow related to your backwards beliefs, then I would be disgusted with myself.
That you can't hold an arguement, is an insult to your intelligence.
@bluesrockfan36 I should say, you don't know who or what I am and before very long you will cower before me and my beloved friend Gabrielle. my god, what an arrogant little hypocritical shit.
Hopefully one day, you'll reach that maturity threshold where you'll realize that violence is not the answer to violence.
How can you claim to be morally superior to the infractor, if you lower yourself to their level, and perpetrate the very acts you despised to begin with. In order to punish him?.
It is morally backwards, and against everything Jesus taught.
@bluesrockfan36 I truly have nothing more to say. you know why? because this kind of unbelievable irony is more than I can fathom. the ONLY thing that will get you to listen is violence to an extent you have not experienced before. I just think it's funny how you go on and on about violence, yet that's the very thing you require the most. hahaha. you do realize you're a joke, right?
@bluesrockfan36 you're a dumbass. the Pm was not only addressed to someone else, it was arguing on your side. just proves how full of shit you are. you're obviously just mad because you've been immasculated or something equally pathetic.
I seem to remember telling you two months ago "you've nothing to worry about"
somehow you ended up commenting me again out of the blue. if you had a life I don't think you would've been stalking like a fucking jungle-troll, waiting to strike. (it's NARCISSISTIC)
@bluesrockfan36 well if you don't read what I say how can you say you won the argument? and I obey God, for the record. if you want to deny what I say, well....go ahead and try to prove me wrong. but I think, when this little rain tarp we live under is finally lifted off, you'll find yourself a bit-outmatched. take my word for it, it'll be better for you
@bluesrockfan36 ethos. but you're just a broken record aren't you? when are you going to realize you're own infirmity and more so inferiority, to both God and me? when you're lying in a pool of your own blood awaiting an eternity of agony that even an angel cannot tolerate? like I said, make an enemy of God and be left to the Enemy, and that guy will show no mercy whatsoever. Hell, will be a joke compared to what he'll put you through. but don't take my word for it. I'll be seeing you later.
@bluesrockfan36 you're so obviously full of shit. do you deny that I've stated I wouldn't WISH Hell on anyone period? and do you deny that I've stated that for a truly worthy person's cause, I'd do anything? go ahead. you seem to ignore everything else. I've tried several times to bring this conversation to a pleasant end-everyone deserves a second chance. but you make it impossible. I can see you just want an excuse-so I guess it doesn't matter what you say, you're doomed.
@bluesrockfan36 please; stop spelling "believe" "belive" it's driving me insane. I don't care if English is your 100th language, if your'e really learning you should have realized, after reading my spelling 2000000 times that it's NOT SPELLED THAT WAY.
@bluesrockfan36 however for the benefit of anyone reading this who has a damn bit of sense, I want to state in final: God is the source of ultimate GOOD in the universe, meaning whatever He says or does is for your ultimate benefit. the notion of a person having freedom to believe what they please is an illusion; for example 100 years ago, the freedom to believe in racism was accepted by society in the U.S. and finally, being an enemy of righteousness will end in suffering. continued later...
@bluesrockfan36 what does the bible have to do with it?obviously I'm talking about a different God. one in real life.
"good" is not a concrete. good is something that "good" beings desire. We only prefer good because MOST of us are fundamentally good beings. however as you can see, human's are twisted in the sense that they prefer to be TREATED well, but aren't very concerned with TREATING well. understand? and God is the source of this "good" force.
Can you tell me any desire that leads to a selfless nature, or a good deed?.
I wouldn't clasify food or air as good.
I find the sky beautiful because I can forget myself in it. I don't desire the sky.
Maybe it's because I'm evil?.
The rise of anger is involuntary (to some extent)... but being controlled by anger is not. You cese to exist, and become anger. It's simple emotional psychology.
@bluesrockfan36 when I say desire, I'm talking about how you would prefer to marry a goodhearted woman instead of an evil whore. because you yourself consider yourself to be truehearted, right? just like you need to eat foods that consist of the same things as your body. what I mean is, God does good things because that's what He is, there is no choice involved. it's automatic. it has to be, when you think of it.
using the sky for a purpose means you DO desire it. but I personally don't know why
I look at the sky for the purpose of not desiring anything, I know it sounds strange... but there's a rather lengthy buddhist philosophical explanation for this.
I don't covet the sky, nor want it for myself. My ego is not in play when I "look" at the sky. That's why it's beautiful. It let's me forget myself (ego).
You don't require anger for respect. It's much better to be respected out of unconditional love than of fear.
Do you respect, let's say Dr. King out of love, or fear?.
@bluesrockfan36 yes, some people say Dr. King was somewhat of a fraud, but from what I saw, he was the very best of humanity.
my point about the sky, was that for many people, finding beauty in nature, or music etc., is not something that is a product of evolution. it's a sign that beauty, has some kind of force, mind of its own. which implies God, as I described Him.
are there not people in this world, who refuse to listen to words? who require violence to undo their evil acts?
I don't understand how you can say, that neuron sinapsis and neurotransmitters aren't enough for 'beauty'... that there has to be a transcendent reality. It's wishful thinking... even that feeling of awe and 'one with nature or God'... that you get when looking at the sky, has been explained neurologically.
If people refuse to listen to words, then don't speak them. Don't answer with violence, you'll become them.
@bluesrockfan36 well perhaps that's true, but I don't plan on changing anything by talking about it. seems to me everyone on this page thinks I just make things up in order to believe in God. but I don't need evidence of the world to believe in God it's proven without a doubt already. the things said on this page are honestly very mundane and primitive, to be honest. it's but the beginning of advancement, however I don't care about mankind I only care about God's will, He's what I live for.
@bluesrockfan36 continued, being an enemy of righteousness is akin to being moldy bread-there is no place for you in a universe devoid of evil, which will hopefully on day exist. therefore you must be a part of an external environment that is equal to your internal state. if you don't like it, ask God about it. if you can't bother to ask God, then you're not worth worrying about.
@bluesrockfan36 and finally, one last thing directly to you bluesrockfan, a shameless fake, and spiteful mocker of the clearly well-intentioned-if you don't think evil deserves evil in return, than you think good does not deserve good in return. therefore, if you work your entire life to develop savings, backbreaking work, than someone could take that money from you, and it'd be just fine in your book. you don't DESERVE reward for your work. or any kind of rights for that matter. right? dumbass
@bluesrockfan36 being angry is not an evil thing, it's involuntary dumbass. when you develop a mature, non-preschool sense of what constitutes good and evil, I think we'll continue. until then I think I should stop. help me by shutting the fuck up.
@bluesrockfan36 are you actually correcting my deliberate spelling? I'm going to check those spammed comments and there better not be a "belive" in there
anger is bad but only because the cause is bad. think of where you'd be without anger. everyone would walk all over you. that's not not helping ANYBODY, even them.
I believe I said, when it comes to youtube I let anger rule. I can't reach out and smack you, after all, so I settle for words-but I'm also not entirely sure I'M WRONG.
@bluesrockfan36 I don't know what people deserve. as recently as earlier this year, I was the last person to say anything about Hell, or the like. I hated the very concept of it-yet things changed. the more I saw wrongs going on about me, this past year they simply became to infuriating for me to ignore.
I'll say this:if someone comes up and sets me on fire, it'll hurt like Hell.
but If I murder their child first, and I know I'm guilty, then the pain I receive, will be in a way-satisfying.
I thought you were a Christian due to the whole atonement through pain, idea... which is very common in Christiany, there was even a movement called the flagellant movement in the middle ages, based on this idea.
The problem is, that physical suffering can serve (as far as I can tell) 3 purposes, and I'll try to prove to you that these are useless, from a philosophical standpoint.
this idea you've stated, that physical suffering is meaningless-it's beside the point. NOTHING, is meaningless. NOTHING. everything serves a purpose, however if you refuse to even entertain the idea that this physical universe is not the basis of reality, then you'll simply revert every point I make, back to a more primitive, crude, and random version of what I was actually saying. it's like confusing "plain", with "plane", I'm talking about something else, do you understand?
@bluesrockfan36 I said nothing of the sort. i was most obviously speaking about DESERVING rewards and punishment. and in case your pitiful logic centers haven't processed it yet, I'm not christian.
and you seem to be missing a key point, over, and over, and over again.
it's not MY decision, what happens to anybody. BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW. I don't know whether you're really a fakeass, or just an arrogant imbecile-simply mistaken. if it's the second, that I can't really blame you.
@bluesrockfan36 the key word is, DESERVED. what the people DESERVE, they get. if it turns out NOBODY deserves hell, than nobody gets it. if it turns out EVERYBODY deserves Hell, EVERYBODY gets it. I DON'T KNOW WHICH-so I act upon ANGER with my words, but act upon JUDGEMENT with my actions. which is why if there's a fire, you'll be running for your life, letting people burn, and I'll be running towards tryna help.
@bluesrockfan36 you seem to "belive" that "want" has an apostrophe.strange
I can't not realize whether or not I want people to burn. look, I'll say it one more time-I WANT PEOPLE TO GET WHAT THEY DESERVE. not burn in Hell, not get raped, not get blissed with eternal life-WHAT THEY DESERVE. whatEVER that is. when you ignore that one million times, and insult me, it makes me doubt what kind of monster you are.
well you said yourself my words don't influence you, so-more bullshit I presume?
If you harm your left hand, by accident with your right one, or intentionaly doing something stupid...
Would you want retaliation on the right hand?. Would you inflict pain on it?.
Why not?.
Whatever you say, may or may not influence me, depends on how you say it. But it definetly influences what you think, and believe.
It's easy to say, that one would do the heroic thing, in times of shock. But if you can't control yourself, then it depends if you have the proper gene or not.
@bluesrockfan36 whatever the fate of humankind will be, or let's say for the argument, whatever I believe it should be, I KNOW-and everybody who's experienced true hardship KNOWS,(maybe this includes you, maybe not) that there's true evil at work at life. I don't know if any human being falls into that category, but I know that things can get pretty dark, and are no joke. as far as that is concerned, pulling punches is not an option.tell me-is there any pain more pleasurable then the inevitable?
@bluesrockfan36 lol sounds like you've lived a taste of inner city life. But by hardship I'm talking about that which makes you view the world as something entirely negative, in a different way from ninety percent of people. all people experience this at some point, to SOME degree, but very few enough, to notice the difference. like being molested, perhaps. or handicapped, in some painful way. or isolated. people like that 'tend not to take anything for certain, even knowledge about life
Yeah It seems I've lived an "inner city" life, in the outskirts of the main city XD.
Worse thing... the main city has about 1.5 million inhabitants, and that's about 50% of our whole population.
But yes, I had depressions so big that caused several paradigm shifts of reality. When you only see the world, as riddled with pain, pain that makes no sense whatsoever.... you feel powerless to do anything to help anything.
@bluesrockfan36 I see where you're coming from, but one thing I don't understand-why has your past depression led you to stop believing in God? I thought it was the opposite, that people whom are content in their lives disbelieve, because they feel they have no requirement for a better reality. doesn't the hardship in the past make you appreciate the depth of the rare beauty that one can actually find in life?
@bluesrockfan36 agnostism protrays to lack of knowledge. its kind of a middle ground. athiest dont believe there is a god, but are open to evidence and proof of his existance. most athiest are agnostic weak athiest by definitons but really all thats matters is that you are grown up enough to say to yourself, hey, there probably isnt a god, i need to stop worry. and i like how you said you're not arrogant enough to say you know there is a god. i cant stand when people say that. so good for you
@bluesrockfan36 hey man i hear yah. people tend to think the whole belief in god thing is very black and white, you do or you dont believe. if you wanna watch some awesome videos, and i wouldn't be surprise if you know of him but whatch qualiasoup. his newest video, lack of belief in gods, is amazing. check it out. and alot od his other videos.
@bluesrockfan36 Being open to evidence makes you agnostic. Agnostics believe that theres not enough evidence to prove or deny the existance of god. Any god.
@bluesrockfan36 well as long as you're not hurting anyone or anything, I don't have a problem with different beliefs. nobody's psychic, and it's not an easy world to navigate through.
@bluesrockfan36 well I assume most people would run, from the intense heat, which is no joke, however I know myself to be a "glutton for punishment" I won't be able to run if someone's 'bout to get fried, I just won't. anything else?
@bluesrockfan36 and the priest figured that out because he was a man of God instead of a self-serving arrogant shithead who only cared about false logic and his own ego. good day.
@bluesrockfan36 so why do you insist on spelling believe wrong? are you lying to me about english?
no I'm not the congregation. I'm the priest who wants everybody to get what they deserves. He thought the thief deserved compassion, he gave him compassion. key word-THINK. in Heaven, We will only know. I THINK you need a foot up your ass, so I say so. retribution has nothing to do with it. how have you harmed me, after all? I only wish you to know the truth-to undo, the devil's work.
The congregation in the example, could only see the thief for what he did. For his offences. The priest saw beyond that, he saw a man who didn't knew right for wrong.
If the thief had been a murderer, a rapist or any other evil you can picture, the outcome would have been the same.
What purpose serves punishing a murder or a rapist if you don't change how they think?.
When realesed of their punishment, they'll keep offending.
@bluesrockfan36 but that's the thing-I'm not suggesting we set people on fire today, here on earth. why? because no human being, without God, can truly know who's guilty and who's not. and doing something evil, is NOT the same as BEING evil. it's the CHARACTER I'm concerned with, not the actions. the SPIRIT, of the person. fair or foul.
and as I said, God would easily be able to tell such. I'm not suggesting punishing ignorance-that's the same as beating a four year old for mispronounciation
1. Pain as a deterrent. Like fathers reprimending a child. This dosen't accomplish it's intent, due to the child not knowing that whatever action they commited was wrong... instead they refrain from doing so, out of fear of pain.
And when they're sure they'll get away with it, they'll most likely reoffend.
Is this a proper way to treat a human being?. Wouldn't it accomplish more, if we 'understood' why our actions were wrong?.
@bluesrockfan36 the evil I'm referring to already understands the wrongness of it's action. I think I said, if it's ignorance that is the problem, then they're not guilty. if a person doesn't know what they're doing is wrong, for some strange reason, then, they're not evil, not in the least bit. at least not until they learn their wrongness, and continue the behavior.
but you can't think about it from that perspective, it doesn't fit. you have to first understand something..
2. Pain as empathy. If we feel that we've commited serious harm to someone else, then you would "relish' being burned... it'll feel good as you mentioned, it's because you belive you can become empathic to the pain you've inflicted.
That's not the case, at most it'll distract you from cultivating true empathy with the victim.
The pain is not the same, you can't translate phsychological pain to physical pain. It must be cultivated through understanding, the nature of the crime.
it's not about making the bad guy feel good, it's about balance. look-here's why I'm not accepting what you're saying: if you truly believed balance is not required, than you would not have insulted me. at all. my insults were disrespectful, so you responded by disrespecting me back. that goes directly against what you've been saying. the point is, on earth, yes, no one has the right to punish another when not absolutely needed-BUT, I'm not talking about earth, see?
@bluesrockfan36 your logic is false on the premise that you conclude every day that I wish violence on people, when I've only said I wish people to "get what they deserve". I've also said that in Heaven what people deserve, will be clear as day. you've taken that to meaning, that because I'm angry now, I think everybody will get burnt, and maybe I do-but I've also said that I could be wrong, AND push come to shove, it's just words, I don't want anybody to suffer more pain than necessary.
There is no ammount of physical pain, that is necessary, it's hard to be impartial when you're the victim, I know that.
Even if you'd been physically assaulted.
If you retaliate (or want an external agento to do so) with the same tipe of pain or violence... would that make you or God any better than your offenders?.
Everything has a cause, even those random acts of violence. What affects one, affects everyone.
@bluesrockfan36 now I would much rather believe that everybody gets off easy. but it's hard, understand, on youtube, when someone curses you out, to sound reasonably. and as long as your actions aren't foul....now the only thing I wanted out of you, was for you to not rule out the existence of God, because of the words and actions of other human beings. I'm sorry if I contribute by talking about things like Hell, but it's just youtube after all.
@bluesrockfan36 when you disbelieve in God, it's like losing a dimension to life. there is a depth to life, a consciousness, a pattern, that cannot in any way be explained by a human being's mind. that is just the truth. I know you won't deny this.
I can use the other guy's argument: several thousand years ago, humans thought they had it all figured out, right? they reached a celing, and plugged in a spike, and said "this is life". was that life? no. this age is the same.
@bluesrockfan36 this age is the same. people now have found dna, and they have again reached the ceiling, plugged in a spike, and said "dna is life". scientists, the supposedly most advanced people, all agree. what makes them any better than the humans before? they've found new, true things, yes-but how can a human being, who can barely even understand THEMSELVES, think they truly know, what life is, or life isn't? does that make sense, to you?
@bluesrockfan36 the evil and pettiness I see is not the concern in and of itself-it's what it suggests about the person. it's one thing to say, repaying evil does not add anything-but like I said it's a learning process. it's not about retribution, it's about balance. you said it yourself, in human beings evil is usually ignorance. how can they know what they are doing wrong,if they don't experience it from the other side? they have to learn,to improve.just like I have to learn, just like you do
@bluesrockfan36 you know what's also ironic? the first thing I ever said to you(I remember) is that I used to have the exact same beliefs concerning Hell. I literally said the same things using the same argument, except in a much more intelligent logical way. I can even copy and paste an old message, if you don't believe me. so who needs to reach a maturity level? you, not only because you're ignorant, but because you conveniently ignore everything I say that can't be used detrimentally. LOSER!!
@bluesrockfan36 you've called me several names. and I was being sarcastic, imitating your retarded habit of making useless statements that play on word choice. but it was a good point, I realize-if you so detest eye-for-an-eye, then why are you engaging me? you obviously don't intend to convince me of anything, the only reason you comment is to return an insult. OH! because that's how the human mind works. except unjustly
and that's why I said LEARN english. It's not your spelling that's stupid
@bluesrockfan36 if you're going to play Mr. Spock on your twelve-hour lunchbreak(or should I say, vacant employment space) then do it with some sense please. and without misspelling third grade words(learn english). I hope I haven't hurt your feelings. I know how important your little flame wars are. If I've frightened you with the Hell comments I'm sorry, but if you can't take the heat stay out of the kitchen. nobody's going to Hell unless they truly deserve it, so stop the tears, k boo-boo? k.
I miss Hitchens already.
MsMsmak 2 months ago 5
What if I didn't want free will ad God gave it to me anyway? That means I never really had free will if there is a God because he imposed the free will on me and I didn't have the free will to chose whether I wanted it or not ;)
theBartone9119 3 months ago
2:14 the moderator is like DAMN!
ridonculous34 3 months ago
God gives man free will in the same way Mao Zedong gave man free will. You have the option to either worship them or suffer their punishment. That's why God is your king and not your president.
thecraziestkyle 5 months ago
I give you the gift of free will. Now do as I say or go to hell.
God seems to be a bit of a hypocritical cunt.
NoahTheZoophile 5 months ago 7
I like a God that offers but does not impose. But that is a God does not know the future and I can surprise him everyday! Of course, that means he is not all knowing.
n5473c 5 months ago
@n5473c And eventually, in turn, becomes non-existent.
MetalxXxMayhem 2 months ago
If your belief makes you a happy camper than that should be enough. Attempting to force or at the very least impose your beliefs on to others propses the idea that in fact you "aren't" as happy as you claim to be. Why else would you be so hell bent on converting everyone with a brain and the will to use it?
IGrimReaperI 5 months ago
He didn't cast us overboard. A man who would refuse the life preserver brings death upon himself. He did create man without sin. Suffering is a result of our sin. He is all powerful and all loving. Until you get your own universe you don't get to decide what is just and unjust.
ndrummer99 6 months ago
@ndrummer99 I find it very hard to believe in a god who would give us intelligence, reason, and our 5 senses and yet expect us to discover his existance by some other means that we have no access to. If god created the universe then he also created physics, mathematics, biology, and science in general. Yet science cannot prove the existence of a deity. Logically, I can draw but one conclusion.
IGrimReaperI 6 months ago
@IGrimReaperI All of those things point to Him. He also created us spiritual beings. That's why every people group has religious belief. It's foolish to deny His existence.
ndrummer99 5 months ago
@ndrummer99 "All of those things" It's as if you don't even understand what I'm saying. For the record though, I can't deny someone's existence if they never existed in the first place. All I can do is doubt using the reason and logic that I was born with. You have the option to forfeit your cognitive faculties to gain salvation apparently, but I don't believe it's worth it. I prefer being able to think for myself rather than be commanded to think a certain way.
IGrimReaperI 5 months ago
@IGrimReaperI I know what you are saying, but you are right i don't understand it. You weren't born with the concept there is no God. That is something that has been taught to you mainly by your rebellious heart. You have lifted your heart in pride thinking somehow your intelligence disproves the one who gave you your intelligence. You are dead wrong, it is so worth it. Trusting in God over your limited understanding is the best thing you could do. Think for yourself, but don't assume falsely.
ndrummer99 5 months ago
@ndrummer99 You have no knowledge of how I came to realize that religion if false. You assume it was my "rebellious heart". I merely thought about it. I asked myself, what if god doesnt exist? It was someting that I was afraid to even think. I thought I would go to hell for merely doubting gods existence. Thats how brainwashed I was. Christians teach that kind of horrific bullshit to you when youre too young to understand it and so you grow up believing it.
IGrimReaperI 5 months ago
@IGrimReaperI So how did you discover God doesn't exist?
ndrummer99 5 months ago
@ndrummer99 Well if you mean the Christian god, that was easy. The self contradicting and hypocritic bible is the only evidence that christianity has, and lets face it, its horrible. If you mean God in general, I can't discover or prove god doesnt exist, but I never made that claim to begin with. All the evidence just points against gods existence, it doesnt mean he doesnt really exist. But its just as probable that Zeus doesnt exist. Its a fallacy to approach things like that though.
IGrimReaperI 5 months ago
@IGrimReaperI How is the Bible self-contradicting? I'm an ardent student of it and most of the claimed contradictions I've come across are poor understandings and misinterpretations by people who have little Bible knowledge and have already made up their mind it's false.
ndrummer99 5 months ago
@ndrummer99 The fact that you have to interpret the bible in a way that makes the contradictions disappear is enough for me to doubt it. Many who believe in the bible have to cherry pick the things they believe to be literal and "interpret" the things they dont like and call them metaphorical. Im not going to convince you here and I have no intention to, but if you dont believe there is any contradiction in the bible then im sorry to say that this conversation is over.
IGrimReaperI 5 months ago
@IGrimReaperI So the Bible can't contain literal and non-literal statements. Let me ask you something is everything you say literal? If I said Bob let the cat out of the bag or this job is a prison would you really say I'm a liar? 30% of the old testament is poetry. The new testament is chock full of parallelisms. It's not bias. It's a literary fact.
ndrummer99 5 months ago
@ndrummer99 It does have both, and thats why its a terrible book to live your life by. People interpret it in different ways to suit there needs, thats why there are so many christian sects. Why are no two interpretations ever the same? Everyone can agree on some things but there are far to many disputes for this book to have any real truth to it. Science is universal, no one in the middle east is disputing the idea that water is 2 parts hyrogen and 1 part oxygen.
IGrimReaperI 5 months ago
@ndrummer99 what exactly are the criteria upon which you distinguish literal from non-literal statements? as long as there are none, every distinction is useless and arbitrary.
in most cases, the barbaric/immoral or scientifically insuportable passages are the ones that are said to be metaphorical. this, of course, isnt very persuasive and helpful.
furthermore, saying that you are able to distinguish between literal and non-literal statements has a HUGE hidden implication: it means that you,...
masterhans 5 months ago
@ndrummer99 ... an imperfect human being, knows the hidden thoughts and ideas of the creator of the universe and can decode his message. for me, even though i dont believe in a god, this looks like exorbitant hubris.
the creator of everything that exists would have surely cosidered the deficiencies of human language, e.g. that WHO receives a message is at least (if not more) important than the message itself, and therefor use a better method than uncertain and doubtful human language...
masterhans 5 months ago
@ndrummer99 ...to reveal his will to his creation. consider that, if there was a biblical god, your actions decide whether you spend eternity in unlimited pain and torture or not. if your existence in eternity is at stake, you cannot rely on uncertain interpretations, you need certainty.
the shortcomings of human language is the reason why science makes use of exact definitions and terms, so that the impact of individual interpretations can be reduced.
masterhans 5 months ago
@masterhans The Word of God is certain. There is a prescribed way of discovering it's original meaning. It's called hermeneutics. Studying the Bible is one of the greatest privileges and joys we have.
ndrummer99 5 months ago
@ndrummer99 So your god is such an ineffective communicator that his "word" has to be "interpreted"? Even the freaking aliens in Star Trek all spoke clear English.
lewisner 2 months ago
@lewisner You will never understand the Word of God as long as you see it through the lens of emotionally antipathetic repulsion. All written language must be interpreted for meaning. I can read Shakespeare and interpret what he wrote as something entirely different than what he meant. To truly know what a book means you must know the author. That is why you can't understand the Bible.
ndrummer99 2 months ago
@ndrummer99 Shakespeare was not supposed to be the creator of the Universe but he wrote eloquent prose which didn't contradict itself and is still easy to understand today. Your god is a buffoon.
lewisner 2 months ago
@lewisner The Bible doesn't contradict itself. It may contradict what you believe, but it doesn't contradict itself.
ndrummer99 2 months ago
@ndrummer99
Years of famine
II SAMUEL 24:13: So God came to David, and told him, and said unto him, shall SEVEN YEARS OF FAMINE come unto thee in thy land? or will thou flee three months before thine enemies, while they pursue. thee?
I CHRONICLES 21:11: SO God came to David, and said unto him, Thus saith the LORD, Choose thee. Either THREE YEARS OF FAMINE or three months to be destroyed before thy foes, while that the sword of thine enemies overtaketh thee;
Seven or three?
lewisner 2 months ago
@lewisner It's most possible both are correct. God was threatening another 3 years of famine. There had already been 3 years due to Saul's sin. (2 Samuel 21:1) They were currently in a year of famine and God was now threatening another three. I'm no math expert, but 3+1+3=7.
ndrummer99 2 months ago
@ndrummer99 Ha ha! So I could work through all the contradictions and you'd invent a story to wriggle out?
lewisner 2 months ago
@lewisner You can invent as many contradictions as you want. The Bible is the most scrutinized book of all time, yet it has held up under such scrutiny and remains alive and well. I am totally convinced the Christian faith is the most coherent worldview around. The greatest incoherency lies in those who attack it.
ndrummer99 2 months ago
@ndrummer99 I searched "Contradictions in the bible" and there are pages of them. You believe the bible because you want to believe it. That's the nature of faith - nothing could convince you that you are wrong. Hindu's and Sikh's are just as convinced that you are wrong as you are convinced that they are wrong. The atheist position is that all of you are wrong. One day in the future people will read the history of religion with incredulity.
lewisner 2 months ago
@lewisner So the very "contradictions" you are proposing to me aren't even ones you yourself have honestly come by? They are instead most likely the collection of someone who has spent more time trying to disprove the Bible than actually study it. You are fighting for a lost cause. The world will never be rid of religion. Man is a spiritual being. Defeating Christianity will only usher in another religion like Islam. Man will always have a spiritual need. It’s the way we were created.
ndrummer99 2 months ago
@ndrummer99 I'm honest enough to say thats how I found the list , yes. I have a real life and arguing with xtians is just amusement to me. In the UK a recent government survey found that 44% of the population was atheist but that rose to 66% among 18-24 year olds. They will have kids who will be raised atheist and your religion will increasingly be confined to old people. Islam is about 4% maximum and will never be enough to wield serious power.
lewisner 2 months ago
@lewisner Islam is spreading across Europe rapidly. You atheist don't evidently have kids. It's only a matter of time before they out reproduce you.
ndrummer99 2 months ago
@ndrummer99 Just the opposite actually because we go around sinning and having unprotected sex while you guys are at bible class. Anyway I'm done with this convo. Bye
lewisner 2 months ago
@lewisner Pleasure talking to you. I don't know if I will ever speak to you again so I just want to encourage you to reconsider your beliefs about God. I can't help but marvel that I am swimming in this boundless sea of wonders called the universe. I believe that the magic of the universe must have meaning, and meaning must have someone to mean it. I pray as you journey through this life you find the giver of that meaning .
ndrummer99 2 months ago
@ndrummer99 Religion, Christianity especially, doesnt want you think think for yourself. I know because I used to be one. I was never told to read the bible, interpret it, and ask myself whether or not I actually believe it, I was just told all of these things and expected to believe them because "jesus died for me". There was no thought on my part, I just accepted it. What else was I to do? There wasnt a choice given to me. I was too young to understand it.
IGrimReaperI 5 months ago
Would you have rather that he hadn't? Yeah, he knew sin would come into the world, but he also knew he would send his Son to redeem it back.
ndrummer99 6 months ago
@ndrummer99 I'm Sorry, but your comment doesn't get you any closer to the point. Thats like saying you should be praised for throwing a drowning man a life preserver, whom you cast overboard in the first place. He could have created man without sin, without suffering, eternally if he is indeed all powerful. So what does this say about God? It says that he is either NOT omnipotent, NOT all good, or simply does not exist.
Nucl3arTeacup 6 months ago
Which came first God's substance ( His Spirit ) or His moral Character love, truth, compassion,etc. They are simultaneous of course. Therefore for God to exist in self existing Life His Virtues and Attributes are His substance ( Spirit Life ). God is determined by Virtue in perpetual Life and cannot suspend Himself in Attribute or Virtue for in so doing would suspend His own Life. Hence it is impossible for their to be free will A power or knowledge not ordained by God.God is the only free will.
polopowers1 7 months ago
Excellent facepalm bomb at 0:08
deathwich0ncp 7 months ago
it seems hitchens is demonstrating his freewill perfectly, he simply rejects Gods warning of impending danger, as do the majority of all, "broad is the road that leads to destruction, narrow is the path that leads to life, few who find it". would the scriptures be better if God provided no warning of eternal separation from Him?
elGuapo45 10 months ago
ya god hates sin enough to not give you a chance to live without it, thus condemning you to eternal damnation by his own definition.
bigalakers69 11 months ago
Proverbs 16;9In his heart a man plans his course, but the LORD determines his steps.Proverbs 19:21 Many are the plans in a man's heart, but it is the LORD's purpose that prevails.
Proverbs 20:24 A man's steps are directed by the LORD. How then can anyone understand his own way?
Jeremiah 10:23 I know, O LORD, that a man's life is not his own; it is not for man to direct his steps.
Man has NO FREE WILL,even the atheist's steps are determined by God.Jesus came to die for HIS PEOPLE alone.
CBALLEN 1 year ago
@CBALLEN
For once, leave that goddamn bible down and THINK for yourself. Think and ask yourself if what Hitchens said maky ANY sense!
Velvetroomdj 1 year ago
@Velvetroomdj Man has no free will,man's natural state is evil all the time.
CBALLEN 1 year ago
@CBALLEN So God hates me and wants me to go to hell, because he made me an atheist. And he hates all homosexuals, Jews, Muslims, Mormons, Catholics, and pretty well anyone who doesn't think like you. Very Christian of you.
SuperMellix 11 months ago 4
@SuperMellix no but if he has called out to you you reject him continue doing so whose fault is that he works through people his word your heart. dont blame others. God hates sin.
dougbear2004 11 months ago
@dougbear2004 Well then your God has funny perceptions of sin. Killing, incest, genocide and rape is fine but loving someone of the same sex is off limits?! Get real, and just self reflect on the stuff you are taught to be believing.
MrrGrave 9 months ago 2
@MrrGrave Never blame things on God's sovereignty that are actually the result of your irresponsibility. All the evil in the world is a result of our sin. We are arrogant to judge God.
ndrummer99 6 months ago
@ndrummer99 Lets not forget that sin is God's creation in the first place. To be the author of sin and suffering, making humanity capable of it, and then absolving yourself from all responsibility from it is the height of absurdity. I'm sorry, but your argument is weak at best.
Nucl3arTeacup 6 months ago
@Nucl3arTeacup God did not create sin. Sin is that which is not of God. God created everything in the beginning, but He didn't create what his creation became. It's simple minded to say God is responsible for sin being that he created us.
ndrummer99 6 months ago
@ndrummer99 I disagree, I dont think its simpleminded at all. It's a christian's assertion that god is omnipotent. EVEN IF, i concede you the point that God didnt directly create sin, he DID at least have foreknowledge of it coming into existence, and allowed it to happen. If i might draw a comparison to the SAW movies, sure the unwilling victims had an opportunity to escape if they made the right decisions, does that make the author of the horrid traps and tests innocent? I think no
Nucl3arTeacup 6 months ago
@SuperMellix Afraid so.
CBALLEN 11 months ago
Check out that face palm at 0:10.
GravityFoxx 1 year ago
the christian dude at the beginning quoting scripture is so lame and so obviously trying to act pompous and intellectual,
JuliaGillardOfficial 1 year ago 29
hitchslapped
newyawker123 1 year ago 67
the pope is the antichrist talkin bout salvation is through him..he is not christ nor the vicar of christ he is a phony....
60zOutlaw 1 year ago
Defenition of atheist: Person who denies or disbelieves the existance of a supreme being or beings.
BALSACTHEWARRIOR 1 year ago
@BALSACTHEWARRIOR
You're asuming two positions on that matter.
If it's disbelief, as in a-theism, then it's the correct logical default position.
I disbelief the existance of God.
I also disbelief the non-existance of God, since there is no evidence to make a conclusion.
But to deny the existance of God, is to make a negative assertion based on faith.
Are you sure that definition is correct?.
bluesrockfan36 1 year ago
@bluesrockfan36 Pretty damn sure lol You can look it up. I have. And the definition for Agnostic is a person who believes that the existance of God is unknown and unknowable.
BALSACTHEWARRIOR 1 year ago
@BALSACTHEWARRIOR
I never met anyone who can say, without a doubt there is no God.
Not even Richard Dawkins says that.
But in any case, an agnostic is contained within the definiton of an atheist.
So it's logical to say, that agnostics are atheists.
bluesrockfan36 1 year ago
@bluesrockfan36 No its not. Atheists do not believe in a supreme being. Agnostics really have no opinion when it comes to wether or not a god exists while atheists on the other hand disbelieve in the existance of god.
BALSACTHEWARRIOR 1 year ago
Couldn't find you comment mikese93 but my mail said what you wrote. Two people WITH an audience and a moderator. You believe in hell and that's enough dogma for me. It's doesn't even have to go as far as the "holy" books and I thought you were giving up. Goddamn liar.
clipsryan 1 year ago
@clipsryan like I said let me know when you get something done in real life
mikese93 1 year ago
@mikese93 As opposed to fake life? I've gotten alot done.
clipsryan 1 year ago
@clipsryan as opposed to youtube. go take care of the animals. isn't that more important than trying to embarrass some psycho on youtube or whatever it is you think you're doing?
mikese93 1 year ago
@mikese93 I got time for both and if you're embarassed, that's on you.
clipsryan 1 year ago
@clipsryan I was being sarcastic. you're not too bright are you?
mikese93 1 year ago
believe it.
mikese93 1 year ago
you truly disgust me, both of you. why is it, that you ask questions, with no intent of hearing the answer? such an act is a clear sign of evil. your strategy is to attack every part of what I'm saying, but not honestly, only in a very anal retentive, technical way. I say "I believe God is good", you say "but you said this" I say, "that's why I said this", you say, "but the bible says this" I say "fuck the bible" and you say "but all religion says this". it's insulting to my intelligence
mikese93 1 year ago
@mikese93
You are an insignificant mere human. So why do you talk for God?. Why do you tell me what he does and doesn't do, when you can't even understand the key elements of the Christian philosophy?.
You're just a bloodthirsty barbarian, born in the wrong age. If I disgust you, then I'm glad, because if you felt that my viewpoints are somehow related to your backwards beliefs, then I would be disgusted with myself.
That you can't hold an arguement, is an insult to your intelligence.
bluesrockfan36 1 year ago
Comment removed
mikese93 1 year ago
@bluesrockfan36 I should say, you don't know who or what I am and before very long you will cower before me and my beloved friend Gabrielle. my god, what an arrogant little hypocritical shit.
mikese93 1 year ago
@mikese93
Sure I will... I knew you were mentally unstable, but not to such extent.
Delusions of grandeur, megalomania, delusional fantasies.
I strongly suggest you seek pyschiatric help.
bluesrockfan36 1 year ago
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@bluesrockfan36 uh-huh. I strongly suggest you shut the fuck up before something worse than you imagined happens.
mikese93 1 year ago
@mikese93
Hopefully one day, you'll reach that maturity threshold where you'll realize that violence is not the answer to violence.
How can you claim to be morally superior to the infractor, if you lower yourself to their level, and perpetrate the very acts you despised to begin with. In order to punish him?.
It is morally backwards, and against everything Jesus taught.
bluesrockfan36 1 year ago
@bluesrockfan36 I truly have nothing more to say. you know why? because this kind of unbelievable irony is more than I can fathom. the ONLY thing that will get you to listen is violence to an extent you have not experienced before. I just think it's funny how you go on and on about violence, yet that's the very thing you require the most. hahaha. you do realize you're a joke, right?
mikese93 1 year ago
@mikese93
Oooooh... hellfire threats, worse fate than I can image, absurdly long PM's with nothing but insults and ramblings...
Get a life.
I doubt you have anything left to say to me, after that 3 ages PM you sent me... mainly because I doubt you know any more words.
I'd love to see how I require violence, but mainly how you know every detail of my life, to say it's devoid of violence...
I think you're a narcisitc fuck who thinks life shits on him, grow up. Shit falls evenly to everyone.
bluesrockfan36 1 year ago
@bluesrockfan36 you're a dumbass. the Pm was not only addressed to someone else, it was arguing on your side. just proves how full of shit you are. you're obviously just mad because you've been immasculated or something equally pathetic.
I seem to remember telling you two months ago "you've nothing to worry about"
somehow you ended up commenting me again out of the blue. if you had a life I don't think you would've been stalking like a fucking jungle-troll, waiting to strike. (it's NARCISSISTIC)
mikese93 1 year ago
@mikese93
How can I tell you this... you're not God. You don't decide who goes and who doesn't go to Hell.
God doesn't obey you. So stop insinuating He does, by condeming people to and out of hell.
To be honest, I didn't even bother to read your PM, I never do, specially Pm's that finish with:
" I haven't heard you say anything that comes even close to making as much sense as that. you can't even argue an invalid point right, what a loser."
bluesrockfan36 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@bluesrockfan36 well if you don't read what I say how can you say you won the argument? and I obey God, for the record. if you want to deny what I say, well....go ahead and try to prove me wrong. but I think, when this little rain tarp we live under is finally lifted off, you'll find yourself a bit-outmatched. take my word for it, it'll be better for you
mikese93 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@mikese93
Oh I engage you, just to practice my english.
But to be honest, I really want to know the philosophical point that enables you to construct a better society, if eye for an eye was a valid point.
But again, all you do is resort to threats and insults.
And I'm a skeptic... that means I naturally doubt everyone... so how can I possibly take your lack of evidence and your word for "it"?.
You know what arguements from authority are?.
bluesrockfan36 1 year ago
@bluesrockfan36 ethos. but you're just a broken record aren't you? when are you going to realize you're own infirmity and more so inferiority, to both God and me? when you're lying in a pool of your own blood awaiting an eternity of agony that even an angel cannot tolerate? like I said, make an enemy of God and be left to the Enemy, and that guy will show no mercy whatsoever. Hell, will be a joke compared to what he'll put you through. but don't take my word for it. I'll be seeing you later.
mikese93 1 year ago
@mikese93
Ooh yes... I bet you think there is a lot of people whom you're superior to uh?.
Hopefully one day, you'll see how stupid you've been.
And how can I possibly alienate God... I'm not the one speaking for Him, you are.
Besides you still have to prove God exists in the first place, which you can't... strange.
Why would I take the word of a narcisisstic megalomaniac, who wishes suffering upon everyone?.
You'll probably even condemn Jesus to Hell, if he was here.
bluesrockfan36 1 year ago
@bluesrockfan36 you're so obviously full of shit. do you deny that I've stated I wouldn't WISH Hell on anyone period? and do you deny that I've stated that for a truly worthy person's cause, I'd do anything? go ahead. you seem to ignore everything else. I've tried several times to bring this conversation to a pleasant end-everyone deserves a second chance. but you make it impossible. I can see you just want an excuse-so I guess it doesn't matter what you say, you're doomed.
mikese93 1 year ago
@mikese93
Why're you getting so riled up... pretty strange for someone so vastly superior as you claim yourself to be?.
Does God talk to you?. Have you asked God about these things an He answered?.
And how can you claim that you don't wish Hell on anyone, yet consistently affirm that God is the perfect judge, and sends people to Hell.
Then in somesort of narcissistic fit, you belived yourself with power to judge me and condemed me to Hell...
Please.
bluesrockfan36 1 year ago
@bluesrockfan36 please; stop spelling "believe" "belive" it's driving me insane. I don't care if English is your 100th language, if your'e really learning you should have realized, after reading my spelling 2000000 times that it's NOT SPELLED THAT WAY.
mikese93 1 year ago
@bluesrockfan36 however for the benefit of anyone reading this who has a damn bit of sense, I want to state in final: God is the source of ultimate GOOD in the universe, meaning whatever He says or does is for your ultimate benefit. the notion of a person having freedom to believe what they please is an illusion; for example 100 years ago, the freedom to believe in racism was accepted by society in the U.S. and finally, being an enemy of righteousness will end in suffering. continued later...
mikese93 1 year ago
@mikese93
If God is the source of Good... then:
Is something good because God commands it, or God commands it because it's good?.
He commanded genocide a couple of times in the bible... would you say genocide is good?.
There is no rightousness in returning violence, with the same kind of violence, or any violence whatsoever. That's just rage.
And your pathetic logical straw mans, and non sequiturs won't help you.
bluesrockfan36 1 year ago
@bluesrockfan36 what does the bible have to do with it?obviously I'm talking about a different God. one in real life.
"good" is not a concrete. good is something that "good" beings desire. We only prefer good because MOST of us are fundamentally good beings. however as you can see, human's are twisted in the sense that they prefer to be TREATED well, but aren't very concerned with TREATING well. understand? and God is the source of this "good" force.
why do you find the sky beautiful?
mikese93 1 year ago
@mikese93
I wasn't aware there was a God in real life.
Can you tell me any desire that leads to a selfless nature, or a good deed?.
I wouldn't clasify food or air as good.
I find the sky beautiful because I can forget myself in it. I don't desire the sky.
Maybe it's because I'm evil?.
The rise of anger is involuntary (to some extent)... but being controlled by anger is not. You cese to exist, and become anger. It's simple emotional psychology.
bluesrockfan36 1 year ago
@bluesrockfan36 when I say desire, I'm talking about how you would prefer to marry a goodhearted woman instead of an evil whore. because you yourself consider yourself to be truehearted, right? just like you need to eat foods that consist of the same things as your body. what I mean is, God does good things because that's what He is, there is no choice involved. it's automatic. it has to be, when you think of it.
using the sky for a purpose means you DO desire it. but I personally don't know why
mikese93 1 year ago
@mikese93
See how clear, and intelligible you can be when you're not spouting insults or threats every three lines?.
I actually understood your point.
Even if we asume the premise that God is good, therefor He didn't create "good". In fairness there should be an equal and opposite being.
An Evil God, not created by God, just evil by nature.
That's zoroastrianism, if I'm not mistaken. Unless you can argue that evil comes from good.
bluesrockfan36 1 year ago
@bluesrockfan36 isn't that what I've been saying the ENTIRE time?
mikese93 1 year ago
@mikese93
I look at the sky for the purpose of not desiring anything, I know it sounds strange... but there's a rather lengthy buddhist philosophical explanation for this.
I don't covet the sky, nor want it for myself. My ego is not in play when I "look" at the sky. That's why it's beautiful. It let's me forget myself (ego).
You don't require anger for respect. It's much better to be respected out of unconditional love than of fear.
Do you respect, let's say Dr. King out of love, or fear?.
bluesrockfan36 1 year ago
@bluesrockfan36 yes, some people say Dr. King was somewhat of a fraud, but from what I saw, he was the very best of humanity.
my point about the sky, was that for many people, finding beauty in nature, or music etc., is not something that is a product of evolution. it's a sign that beauty, has some kind of force, mind of its own. which implies God, as I described Him.
are there not people in this world, who refuse to listen to words? who require violence to undo their evil acts?
mikese93 1 year ago
@mikese93
I don't understand how you can say, that neuron sinapsis and neurotransmitters aren't enough for 'beauty'... that there has to be a transcendent reality. It's wishful thinking... even that feeling of awe and 'one with nature or God'... that you get when looking at the sky, has been explained neurologically.
If people refuse to listen to words, then don't speak them. Don't answer with violence, you'll become them.
bluesrockfan36 1 year ago
@bluesrockfan36 well perhaps that's true, but I don't plan on changing anything by talking about it. seems to me everyone on this page thinks I just make things up in order to believe in God. but I don't need evidence of the world to believe in God it's proven without a doubt already. the things said on this page are honestly very mundane and primitive, to be honest. it's but the beginning of advancement, however I don't care about mankind I only care about God's will, He's what I live for.
mikese93 1 year ago
@bluesrockfan36 continued, being an enemy of righteousness is akin to being moldy bread-there is no place for you in a universe devoid of evil, which will hopefully on day exist. therefore you must be a part of an external environment that is equal to your internal state. if you don't like it, ask God about it. if you can't bother to ask God, then you're not worth worrying about.
mikese93 1 year ago
@bluesrockfan36 and finally, one last thing directly to you bluesrockfan, a shameless fake, and spiteful mocker of the clearly well-intentioned-if you don't think evil deserves evil in return, than you think good does not deserve good in return. therefore, if you work your entire life to develop savings, backbreaking work, than someone could take that money from you, and it'd be just fine in your book. you don't DESERVE reward for your work. or any kind of rights for that matter. right? dumbass
mikese93 1 year ago
@mikese93
First good and evil are different things, so it's a non sequitur to jump from one into the other.
Having said that:
Good deeds are rewards themselves... one should not perform good deeds in order to expect an external reward.
Same happens with evil deeds.
They're punishment upon themselves.
An angry man, get's punished by it's anger, not because of it.
Of course, with your violent view, I doubt you'll find any sense in those words.
When you develop humility, come back to debate.
bluesrockfan36 1 year ago
@bluesrockfan36 being angry is not an evil thing, it's involuntary dumbass. when you develop a mature, non-preschool sense of what constitutes good and evil, I think we'll continue. until then I think I should stop. help me by shutting the fuck up.
mikese93 1 year ago
@mikese93
What I ment by being punished by your anger, is precisely that. You lose control of yourself, of who you are.
Neve have I seen something good come from it.
I know you were speaking about deserving rewards... so I asked you who deserves violence?.
You claim you don't know now... yet you sound so sure when you condemend me to be "lying in a pool of my blood".
You're being inconsistent.
And it's spelled "trying" not "tryna".
bluesrockfan36 1 year ago
@bluesrockfan36 are you actually correcting my deliberate spelling? I'm going to check those spammed comments and there better not be a "belive" in there
anger is bad but only because the cause is bad. think of where you'd be without anger. everyone would walk all over you. that's not not helping ANYBODY, even them.
I believe I said, when it comes to youtube I let anger rule. I can't reach out and smack you, after all, so I settle for words-but I'm also not entirely sure I'M WRONG.
mikese93 1 year ago
@mikese93
I'm not lying to you about english... I do actually randomly spell believe right... but if I'm typing fast, it's just a mechanical error.
What I'm asking is, what do you believe* (I forced myself to type that one right) people deserve?.
You alone have the power to change the world around you, and if you percieve a world where evil is predominant, you will live in that world.
If someone wrongs you... and badly (really badly), what if God forgives them and nothing happens to them?.
bluesrockfan36 1 year ago
@bluesrockfan36 I don't know what people deserve. as recently as earlier this year, I was the last person to say anything about Hell, or the like. I hated the very concept of it-yet things changed. the more I saw wrongs going on about me, this past year they simply became to infuriating for me to ignore.
I'll say this:if someone comes up and sets me on fire, it'll hurt like Hell.
but If I murder their child first, and I know I'm guilty, then the pain I receive, will be in a way-satisfying.
mikese93 1 year ago
@mikese93
I thought you were a Christian due to the whole atonement through pain, idea... which is very common in Christiany, there was even a movement called the flagellant movement in the middle ages, based on this idea.
The problem is, that physical suffering can serve (as far as I can tell) 3 purposes, and I'll try to prove to you that these are useless, from a philosophical standpoint.
bluesrockfan36 1 year ago
@bluesrockfan36
this idea you've stated, that physical suffering is meaningless-it's beside the point. NOTHING, is meaningless. NOTHING. everything serves a purpose, however if you refuse to even entertain the idea that this physical universe is not the basis of reality, then you'll simply revert every point I make, back to a more primitive, crude, and random version of what I was actually saying. it's like confusing "plain", with "plane", I'm talking about something else, do you understand?
mikese93 1 year ago
@mikese93
Take the example of the man you provided.
Would you have society torture him?, stone him to death?. Or would you keep him in isolation, to reflect upon his actions?.
You seem to suggest that gathering wealth is a good thing... very un-Christian of you. Wealth is ephemeral.
I cannot fathom a world, where all desires that come from anger, should be satisfied. It will be Hell itself.
There's a parable of a priest, his congregation and a thief.
bluesrockfan36 1 year ago
@bluesrockfan36 I said nothing of the sort. i was most obviously speaking about DESERVING rewards and punishment. and in case your pitiful logic centers haven't processed it yet, I'm not christian.
and you seem to be missing a key point, over, and over, and over again.
it's not MY decision, what happens to anybody. BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW. I don't know whether you're really a fakeass, or just an arrogant imbecile-simply mistaken. if it's the second, that I can't really blame you.
mikese93 1 year ago
@bluesrockfan36 the key word is, DESERVED. what the people DESERVE, they get. if it turns out NOBODY deserves hell, than nobody gets it. if it turns out EVERYBODY deserves Hell, EVERYBODY gets it. I DON'T KNOW WHICH-so I act upon ANGER with my words, but act upon JUDGEMENT with my actions. which is why if there's a fire, you'll be running for your life, letting people burn, and I'll be running towards tryna help.
mikese93 1 year ago
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@mikese93
You seem to belive a large number of "imbeciles" deserve somesort of violence as punishment...
And if you belive justice will decree so, then you wan't them to be subject to that violence. Whether you realize that or not.
Acting upon your anger, is never wise. Not even with words, that hold so much power it is. Words change worlds you know?.
I actually been in a real fire... And I know how I acted.
What I want to know is, how are you so sure you'll help and I'll run?.
bluesrockfan36 1 year ago
@bluesrockfan36 you seem to "belive" that "want" has an apostrophe.strange
I can't not realize whether or not I want people to burn. look, I'll say it one more time-I WANT PEOPLE TO GET WHAT THEY DESERVE. not burn in Hell, not get raped, not get blissed with eternal life-WHAT THEY DESERVE. whatEVER that is. when you ignore that one million times, and insult me, it makes me doubt what kind of monster you are.
well you said yourself my words don't influence you, so-more bullshit I presume?
mikese93 1 year ago
@mikese93
If you harm your left hand, by accident with your right one, or intentionaly doing something stupid...
Would you want retaliation on the right hand?. Would you inflict pain on it?.
Why not?.
Whatever you say, may or may not influence me, depends on how you say it. But it definetly influences what you think, and believe.
It's easy to say, that one would do the heroic thing, in times of shock. But if you can't control yourself, then it depends if you have the proper gene or not.
bluesrockfan36 1 year ago
@bluesrockfan36 whatever the fate of humankind will be, or let's say for the argument, whatever I believe it should be, I KNOW-and everybody who's experienced true hardship KNOWS,(maybe this includes you, maybe not) that there's true evil at work at life. I don't know if any human being falls into that category, but I know that things can get pretty dark, and are no joke. as far as that is concerned, pulling punches is not an option.tell me-is there any pain more pleasurable then the inevitable?
mikese93 1 year ago
@mikese93
I don't know what would classify as true hardships in life, but I've had some rough times.
Been assaulted several times, wronged several others, robbed pointelssly even more.
Would I call any of those perpetrators true evil?. No. What may seem pointless to me, may not be so to others, or even them.
And no, I'd rather pain be quick and unexpected. I hate going to the dentist.
bluesrockfan36 1 year ago
@bluesrockfan36 lol sounds like you've lived a taste of inner city life. But by hardship I'm talking about that which makes you view the world as something entirely negative, in a different way from ninety percent of people. all people experience this at some point, to SOME degree, but very few enough, to notice the difference. like being molested, perhaps. or handicapped, in some painful way. or isolated. people like that 'tend not to take anything for certain, even knowledge about life
mikese93 1 year ago
@mikese93
It does make sense, you cannot infere judgement on other things without knowing yourself to begin with.
But that dosen't remove the need for an explanation of what "life" is, even unconscious life.
DNA isn't life, it's just an element of a cell, which cannot propagate without it.
There are self replicating molecules...
But they're hardly alive aren't they?.
I still don't see any religious individual suggest an alternative definition... it's easy to complain.
bluesrockfan36 1 year ago
@mikese93
Yeah It seems I've lived an "inner city" life, in the outskirts of the main city XD.
Worse thing... the main city has about 1.5 million inhabitants, and that's about 50% of our whole population.
But yes, I had depressions so big that caused several paradigm shifts of reality. When you only see the world, as riddled with pain, pain that makes no sense whatsoever.... you feel powerless to do anything to help anything.
Fortunatley, I got past them... for now.
bluesrockfan36 1 year ago
@bluesrockfan36 I see where you're coming from, but one thing I don't understand-why has your past depression led you to stop believing in God? I thought it was the opposite, that people whom are content in their lives disbelieve, because they feel they have no requirement for a better reality. doesn't the hardship in the past make you appreciate the depth of the rare beauty that one can actually find in life?
mikese93 1 year ago
@mikese93
My depressions never made me stop believing in God. Later on, after they subsided I've stop believing I or anyone else KNOWS about God.
I'm an atheist or better said an agnostic (even though by definition they're both the same thing).
I don't know where there is a God or not... I'm just not arrogant enough anymore to claim I know Him, what He wants of me and how He wants it.
bluesrockfan36 1 year ago
@bluesrockfan36 agnostism protrays to lack of knowledge. its kind of a middle ground. athiest dont believe there is a god, but are open to evidence and proof of his existance. most athiest are agnostic weak athiest by definitons but really all thats matters is that you are grown up enough to say to yourself, hey, there probably isnt a god, i need to stop worry. and i like how you said you're not arrogant enough to say you know there is a god. i cant stand when people say that. so good for you
kiddhitta 1 year ago
@kiddhitta
Well the existance of God is an arguement from ignorance, and such fallacy indicates we have a lack of knowledge, and cannot make any assertion.
I don't belive the word agnostic should have been ever created...
And I don't belive anywhere close, that all arguements from ignorance have 50-50 chance of being correct, that would be logically absurd.
I guess I'm an atheist then (but I trully don't know why the word agnosticism even exists).
I'm open to evidence, always.
bluesrockfan36 1 year ago
@bluesrockfan36 hey man i hear yah. people tend to think the whole belief in god thing is very black and white, you do or you dont believe. if you wanna watch some awesome videos, and i wouldn't be surprise if you know of him but whatch qualiasoup. his newest video, lack of belief in gods, is amazing. check it out. and alot od his other videos.
my the lord not be with you, cuz he's not real :)
kiddhitta 1 year ago
@bluesrockfan36 Being open to evidence makes you agnostic. Agnostics believe that theres not enough evidence to prove or deny the existance of god. Any god.
BALSACTHEWARRIOR 1 year ago
@BALSACTHEWARRIOR
Aren't atheist open to evidence as well?.
If they are, then they can't assert for sure that God does not exist, or they wouldn't be.. right?.
bluesrockfan36 1 year ago
@mikese93
Lol the other day without realizing I spent 30 minutes staring into a tree, I could have sworn there was a pattern in the leaves.
I do appreciate the beauty in life, and I do appreaciate the beauty created by those who believe and don't believe in God as well.
But that dosen't tell me where there is or isn't a God.
I spent my time studying God's works... nature. That's far more revealing than any scripture.
And so far... or God dosen't exist, or He dosen't want us to know He does.
bluesrockfan36 1 year ago
@mikese93
And I would actually understand if that was the case.
What other way than to create beings with free will... than disapear from the universe?.
If you're God, and so long as you manifest a tiny whim of yours and impose it on your creations... free will ceses to exist.
Either way, I'm being honest with myself, and perhaps even obeying God, who knows?.
bluesrockfan36 1 year ago
@bluesrockfan36 well as long as you're not hurting anyone or anything, I don't have a problem with different beliefs. nobody's psychic, and it's not an easy world to navigate through.
mikese93 1 year ago
@bluesrockfan36 well I assume most people would run, from the intense heat, which is no joke, however I know myself to be a "glutton for punishment" I won't be able to run if someone's 'bout to get fried, I just won't. anything else?
mikese93 1 year ago
@mikese93
The congregation, was tierd of the thief, and demanded from the priest to expell him of the congregation or they would leave.
The priest kindly show the congregation the door... and said: "So be it, leave if you insist".
Dumbfounded, the congregation demanded an explanation.
Try to guess what it was....
The priest told them: "there is little I can do for you, whereas the thief needs me more, for he can't even tell good from evil".
The thief deserved more compassion.
bluesrockfan36 1 year ago
@bluesrockfan36 and the priest figured that out because he was a man of God instead of a self-serving arrogant shithead who only cared about false logic and his own ego. good day.
mikese93 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@mikese93
You deemed the priest to be wise, yet you act in the opposite fashion.
You're the congregation seeking retribution, you wan't eye for an eye.
Would you consider being compassionate to those who harmed you?.
How can I care for my own ego, if I'm trying to argue that no one deserves violence?. I cannot think of a more selfless act.
And if you belive my logic to be "false", the feel free to tell me on which point it is, instead of criticizing it.
bluesrockfan36 1 year ago
@bluesrockfan36 so why do you insist on spelling believe wrong? are you lying to me about english?
no I'm not the congregation. I'm the priest who wants everybody to get what they deserves. He thought the thief deserved compassion, he gave him compassion. key word-THINK. in Heaven, We will only know. I THINK you need a foot up your ass, so I say so. retribution has nothing to do with it. how have you harmed me, after all? I only wish you to know the truth-to undo, the devil's work.
mikese93 1 year ago
@mikese93
The congregation in the example, could only see the thief for what he did. For his offences. The priest saw beyond that, he saw a man who didn't knew right for wrong.
If the thief had been a murderer, a rapist or any other evil you can picture, the outcome would have been the same.
What purpose serves punishing a murder or a rapist if you don't change how they think?.
When realesed of their punishment, they'll keep offending.
Control through fear is a weak compromise.
bluesrockfan36 1 year ago
@bluesrockfan36 but that's the thing-I'm not suggesting we set people on fire today, here on earth. why? because no human being, without God, can truly know who's guilty and who's not. and doing something evil, is NOT the same as BEING evil. it's the CHARACTER I'm concerned with, not the actions. the SPIRIT, of the person. fair or foul.
and as I said, God would easily be able to tell such. I'm not suggesting punishing ignorance-that's the same as beating a four year old for mispronounciation
mikese93 1 year ago
@mikese93
1. Pain as a deterrent. Like fathers reprimending a child. This dosen't accomplish it's intent, due to the child not knowing that whatever action they commited was wrong... instead they refrain from doing so, out of fear of pain.
And when they're sure they'll get away with it, they'll most likely reoffend.
Is this a proper way to treat a human being?. Wouldn't it accomplish more, if we 'understood' why our actions were wrong?.
bluesrockfan36 1 year ago
@bluesrockfan36 the evil I'm referring to already understands the wrongness of it's action. I think I said, if it's ignorance that is the problem, then they're not guilty. if a person doesn't know what they're doing is wrong, for some strange reason, then, they're not evil, not in the least bit. at least not until they learn their wrongness, and continue the behavior.
but you can't think about it from that perspective, it doesn't fit. you have to first understand something..
mikese93 1 year ago
@mikese93
2. Pain as empathy. If we feel that we've commited serious harm to someone else, then you would "relish' being burned... it'll feel good as you mentioned, it's because you belive you can become empathic to the pain you've inflicted.
That's not the case, at most it'll distract you from cultivating true empathy with the victim.
The pain is not the same, you can't translate phsychological pain to physical pain. It must be cultivated through understanding, the nature of the crime.
bluesrockfan36 1 year ago
@bluesrockfan36
it's not about making the bad guy feel good, it's about balance. look-here's why I'm not accepting what you're saying: if you truly believed balance is not required, than you would not have insulted me. at all. my insults were disrespectful, so you responded by disrespecting me back. that goes directly against what you've been saying. the point is, on earth, yes, no one has the right to punish another when not absolutely needed-BUT, I'm not talking about earth, see?
mikese93 1 year ago
@bluesrockfan36 your logic is false on the premise that you conclude every day that I wish violence on people, when I've only said I wish people to "get what they deserve". I've also said that in Heaven what people deserve, will be clear as day. you've taken that to meaning, that because I'm angry now, I think everybody will get burnt, and maybe I do-but I've also said that I could be wrong, AND push come to shove, it's just words, I don't want anybody to suffer more pain than necessary.
mikese93 1 year ago
@mikese93
There is no ammount of physical pain, that is necessary, it's hard to be impartial when you're the victim, I know that.
Even if you'd been physically assaulted.
If you retaliate (or want an external agento to do so) with the same tipe of pain or violence... would that make you or God any better than your offenders?.
Everything has a cause, even those random acts of violence. What affects one, affects everyone.
bluesrockfan36 1 year ago
@bluesrockfan36 now I would much rather believe that everybody gets off easy. but it's hard, understand, on youtube, when someone curses you out, to sound reasonably. and as long as your actions aren't foul....now the only thing I wanted out of you, was for you to not rule out the existence of God, because of the words and actions of other human beings. I'm sorry if I contribute by talking about things like Hell, but it's just youtube after all.
all that said, sometimes, the spite, is shocking.
mikese93 1 year ago
@mikese93
3. Pain as atonement. The idea that you must serve a sentence of pain, to atone for your crimes. It's a selfish desire, this one.
Would forgetting your crime, after a period of torture, would make you more empathic towards the victim?. Will it prevent you from reoffending?.
Even if you don't forget the crime, you'll still be tortured by your conscience.
And what of the victim?. Would he forget the crimes against him, because his offender got tortured?. It won't erase the past.
bluesrockfan36 1 year ago
@bluesrockfan36 when you disbelieve in God, it's like losing a dimension to life. there is a depth to life, a consciousness, a pattern, that cannot in any way be explained by a human being's mind. that is just the truth. I know you won't deny this.
I can use the other guy's argument: several thousand years ago, humans thought they had it all figured out, right? they reached a celing, and plugged in a spike, and said "this is life". was that life? no. this age is the same.
mikese93 1 year ago
@mikese93
I know what you're refering to... to losing a dimension in life.
I used to be a very fervent believer and thought that would happen if I suddently stop believing in God.
It dosen't... not even close.
A beautiful pattern can arise from chaos... ever heard of fractals?.
Self replicating patterns, repeating for infinity. With no God or creator to spoil it's beauty.
Yes several times, humans in arrogance thought they knew everything... at least today we're a bit more honest about it.
bluesrockfan36 1 year ago
@bluesrockfan36 this age is the same. people now have found dna, and they have again reached the ceiling, plugged in a spike, and said "dna is life". scientists, the supposedly most advanced people, all agree. what makes them any better than the humans before? they've found new, true things, yes-but how can a human being, who can barely even understand THEMSELVES, think they truly know, what life is, or life isn't? does that make sense, to you?
mikese93 1 year ago
@bluesrockfan36 the evil and pettiness I see is not the concern in and of itself-it's what it suggests about the person. it's one thing to say, repaying evil does not add anything-but like I said it's a learning process. it's not about retribution, it's about balance. you said it yourself, in human beings evil is usually ignorance. how can they know what they are doing wrong,if they don't experience it from the other side? they have to learn,to improve.just like I have to learn, just like you do
mikese93 1 year ago
@bluesrockfan36 you know what's also ironic? the first thing I ever said to you(I remember) is that I used to have the exact same beliefs concerning Hell. I literally said the same things using the same argument, except in a much more intelligent logical way. I can even copy and paste an old message, if you don't believe me. so who needs to reach a maturity level? you, not only because you're ignorant, but because you conveniently ignore everything I say that can't be used detrimentally. LOSER!!
mikese93 1 year ago
@mikese93
"much more intelligent logical way."
I doubt it, since you can't seem to hold an arguement without retreating into insults and threats...
How in the world, is rejecting violence is being an inmature loser?.
I keep insisting, what the wisest of all men have always said. From Socrates, to Jesus to Buddha.
Violence is not the answer to violence.
Yet you call me an inmature loser, when you can't grasp this simple fact.
So be it, just don't spamm my inbox with insults and threats.
bluesrockfan36 1 year ago
@bluesrockfan36 there is no argument all you do is insult me and discredit what I say with subjective basis. I can do that too. observe
"How am I SPARMING your inbox? I sent you one message"
"If vioeleunce is not the answer to vioeleunce, why do you combat my insults with insults? you're a pirmitruve hypocrite"
" how can you know what's right and wrong, if you have no supernatural standard to base it off? you're unmature"
that's what you do. which is rather insulting to my intelligence.
mikese93 1 year ago
@mikese93
You can't insult someone and expect them to take it without retaliating...
And I do insult your beliefs not you.
If countering your arguements is insulting your intelligence, then by all means feel insulted.
Before you start commenting on people's gramatical understanding on the english language you should check your own mispells.
Besides English is my fourth language... so nice fail there. Learn to write Spanish as good as I, so I can insult you, then come back.
bluesrockfan36 1 year ago
@bluesrockfan36 you've called me several names. and I was being sarcastic, imitating your retarded habit of making useless statements that play on word choice. but it was a good point, I realize-if you so detest eye-for-an-eye, then why are you engaging me? you obviously don't intend to convince me of anything, the only reason you comment is to return an insult. OH! because that's how the human mind works. except unjustly
and that's why I said LEARN english. It's not your spelling that's stupid
mikese93 1 year ago
@bluesrockfan36 if you're going to play Mr. Spock on your twelve-hour lunchbreak(or should I say, vacant employment space) then do it with some sense please. and without misspelling third grade words(learn english). I hope I haven't hurt your feelings. I know how important your little flame wars are. If I've frightened you with the Hell comments I'm sorry, but if you can't take the heat stay out of the kitchen. nobody's going to Hell unless they truly deserve it, so stop the tears, k boo-boo? k.
mikese93 1 year ago
@mikese93
And using LOGIC is not playing Mr. Spock... i