Im an atheist on the verge of converting to a deist, but i only have 2 questions, one what made the creator, and 2 if a creator did exist why did he create a universe then hide ??, if anyone could please answer me this, i will gladly convert to deism
iDeist, what would your reply to this be: God was originally founded by human "mystics", so if religion is wrong, and there is no personal God, then how was the original idea of God created by a person who believed in a personal God?
@iDeist But if the idea of God was invented by a person who is totally the opposite of your beliefs, that'd be like accepting the possibility of fairies from the Sun's moon existing (using reason) even thought the inventor of them said they didn't.
Wow bro for the last 30 min I've been saying the same thing...he talks a lot but says nothing. Not gunna lie...at first I actually thought he made excellent points against Deism because he talked so much. As I reviewed it however, I saw through him.
I've never seen verbal gymnastics make something so meaningless appear like it's saying something.
LOL I SWEAR.. I just watched "Deism is D for Dumb" for the first time ever right before I watched your response for the first time. All I could think of was "he literally makes no argument at all."
(continued) that argument doesn't really hold up.. Because that gets into the argument of reality and what you see is simply sense data, and sense data can be argued does not in fact inform us of the reality in which we live. And the only thing we can really affirm exists(as said by some philosophers) is our own consciousness. And thus that child might not actually exist at all, and to him, you might not really exist at all, and everyone and everything is formed via our own imagination.
(continued) it does propose that their is indeed a god. Now I will grant you, Atheism does not have all the answers, and you can throw out the "Give me proof God does not exist" argument. But this argument is full of holes and you would be only doing a grave disservice to your ideology. After all this same argument could be give to say a child's imaginary friend. And while you may try to throw out a easy answer like you do not see it therefor it does not exist. But upon closer inspection
I think you completely missed DasAmericanAethiest's points. What he is saying is that Deists by saying that you come to find god not threw revelation but threw rational thought climbs a dangerous slope in judging what is and what is not, rational thought. I will say that him saying Deism relies on "Appeals to ignorance" is incorrect. But Deism proposes that their is a god who made it all, and then left it all to be. (And like it or not, Deism has no proof a God exists, and thus it does propose-
Nicely done iDeist. If you watch just one of his videos, it is very clear how arrogant and inlove with himself he really is.' Long winded and a lot of noise' pretty much sums him up.
Finally a Deist who's well spoken and well read on youtube and isn't some basic guy attacking religion. Nice work dude. I've been waiting for someone like you to pop up and defend our belief with efficiency.
You say you believe in a deity, but do not propose there is one. Starnge, since you believe there in a deity, then you are making a proposition for the existence of one based upon your belief. Many theistic and deistic arguments are exactly the same, and can be dealt with as such. I have yet to see one which is sensible. They are usually the fine tuned argument which you allude to which is just childish.
@asianlife53 No, I said I believe in a Creator, it's a philosophical belief. It could be aliens, a God, group of Gods, etc. Besides the theist who believes in a God, I have no religion what so ever. I dont believe in superstitions, any religious books, rituals, prophecy, or anything religous at all for that matter (cont'd_
@iDeist , so your comparison is "I" for idiotic. If you wanna debate me on why I think things just didnt happen naturalistically, we can do that all day. As a Deist, I simply lack a belief in metaphysical naturalism.
@iDeist Well I prefer to take the definition from the Religioustolerance website, which says that a deist is someone who believes in a deity. The difference being that a theist believes in personal deity whereas deists tend to go for a more impersonal one. As regards believing in any deity, I cannot see any logical reason for doing so.
How can you say no points were made? The point was that all arguments against the existance of a God still apply to deism. He's hardly going to list them all in a video targetted at broadly explaining the concept of deism and why he doesn't rate it.
Yes, I have the belief. And I'm not stating fact, I'm stating belief, unlike Atheists who categorically state there is no God. The rules of logic dictate that the one stating the fact shoulders the burden of proof.
Premise: I believe in God. -True.
Therefore: I believe in God. -Valid.
I can't prove God and you can't disprove God. It isn't until I claim God exists, and Jesus Christ is the only way to heaven....THEN you'll have a point, but until then you don't.
Instead of trying to offend theists why not try heading at atheism? THATS ACTUALLY OPPOSING YOUR BELIEFS. Theists aren't messing with you but you choose for some reason to try to offend them, wth is the point?
I thank you very much for posting this. I completely in this, I was dismayed to see the Deism is D for Dumb. Thank you. (I'm also a Deist, and I agreed with everything you said.)
@celshader The problem is Atheists (not all but a lot) tend to have a rebellious attitude to anyone who doesn't just surrender throw their hands up and shout "Ok there is no God!", now Christians and Muslims tend to get very fired up when u question there religion this satisfies alot of Atheists combative nature by them running over their biblical beliefs (kind of makes them easy targets) where as Deists don't really care what you think of them or their beliefs that really burns them lol.
i do not have the knowledge or proof of god/gods existence nor do i have the right to say god/gods dont exist or what god/gods responsibility's are in this universe.
i can only say that we as humans don't have the ability to comprehend gods existence.
deist believe that here is some higher power(be it white bearded daddy or higher science) that doesn't mettle(since scientific fact knows that there are laws). deist founders were trying to not kill "god" with their knowlege because that was a sin in their day. we aren't atheist because all the questions haven't been answered. if they are, someday we might convert. as of now, we are the only belief system that still looks for logic. deists are against blind faith and acceptance of ignorance.
Belief that there is some sort of higher power, but not claiming to know any particular attributes about the higher power. That would be a basic definition but may not be wholly inclusive.
Easy there, cowboy. You need to understand that if you are saying that you can refute refutations of cosmological arguments like Kalām on YouTube, be aware that you have wandered into the tall grass.
Come on ideist, we should all know by now that Muslims, Jews, Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, Sikhs, Mormons..breathe.. Psychics, animists, Shintos, Confucians...breathe... Deists, pussy agnostics, New Agers, weak atheists and anyone else who disagrees with strong atheists about anything are stupid. It is obvious why can't u see it?
I agree. Broad brush. The typical atheist argument against deism is this, a bunch of strawmen and painting everything with a strawman{not all atheist arguments against deism are thus, some are good arguments, but most are'nt}.
1. Do you think the fact that there is evil in the world is something deists too need to reconsile somewhat? I mean like earthquakes. Are they because his creation is broken, or are they because the prime mover might not be all that good or something like that?
2. Do you think you need to put some quality on the prime mover before you can call yourself a deist? Must it be an agent, sentient being of some sort. Are deists obligated to define what a deity is before they can be a deist?
Hi, Censeo. Long time mate. Let me try to give you what I think, might not be the same as anyone else. As far as what I think goes, about the Earthquakes and the such, I dont know. That seems a copout response but I actually have a decent point of view on that and I'll make a video soon about it, I dont wanna cheapen it with a non-direct comment. Your second question, I do believe whatever it is, is conscious, but I dont wanna say anyone is obligated to believe what I do. I could to a vid.
As far as my response is on my second question, it is yeah, they do need to think prime mover is an agent otherwise they are not deists.
The thing aside from atheism which I now investigate is pantheism. Pantheism being ideas in the line of that the universe is being a subconscious force trying to understand itself, which is why sentient beings are evolved. That all matter has a primordial conscousness. It is a mindboggeling idea =)
I agree, it could be that that's what it is. I have no problem with that. I find that idea, actually fascinating, I made a vid on it. Wouldnt that be something lol. Anyway, good to hear youre doing well, and be around more often, you make me think.
That is part of the beauty of formal logic, you don't have to say "reductio ad absurdum" or "non sequitur" to use them in an argument. The problem with your video is that you are criticizing DasAmericanAtheist for utilizing "ad hominem" attacks (even if you never said it textually) as for him saying deists are dumb, etc.
Your criticism is actually correct, the problem is that you fall into the very same fallacy later. An example is your mantra of "he has no argument", between other things.
I finished my last day of Philosophy class today and I figured out why I dislike atheism so much: Logical Positivism. When you understand this philosophy, you'll understand exactly what's wrong with the New Atheist Movement. In truth, the movement is a revival of this self-contradicting philosophy. And the primary reason this movement exists at all is religious bigotry.
If there is no certainty and the verification principle is a crock of shit, who cares if I think God exists?
I loved the class! Next up will be Formal Logic class. This is kind of weird for me to be going back to college I guess. I already got my Bio degree, but now I actually have the time and money to take all those classes I wish I had taken. What's really great is that I'm filling in the missing peaces to the proverbial puzzle and I'm getting the answers I'm looking for. I see myself as a truth seeker on the impossible quest for God. LOL.
Im an atheist on the verge of converting to a deist, but i only have 2 questions, one what made the creator, and 2 if a creator did exist why did he create a universe then hide ??, if anyone could please answer me this, i will gladly convert to deism
TheCaptainjuicy 1 month ago
I love that he posted an annotation, claiming it was a joke. I mean, who doesn't pull that cards whenever he screws up just to save his skin?
PETA's attack against Mario last year is another great example.
HawaiiKnut 1 month ago
I wrote this kid this guy's referring to twice and he never wrote me back. He can't go toe to toe with a deist.
deistforever2001 1 month ago
iDeist, what would your reply to this be: God was originally founded by human "mystics", so if religion is wrong, and there is no personal God, then how was the original idea of God created by a person who believed in a personal God?
SumAwe69 3 months ago
@SumAwe69 it doesnt matter.
iDeist 3 months ago
@iDeist But if the idea of God was invented by a person who is totally the opposite of your beliefs, that'd be like accepting the possibility of fairies from the Sun's moon existing (using reason) even thought the inventor of them said they didn't.
SumAwe69 3 months ago
@SumAwe69 no, it doesnt matter because the concept of God was never "founded". It's a ridiculous "what if" question.
iDeist 3 months ago
@iDeist Then how does the concept exist?
SumAwe69 2 months ago
@SumAwe69 God is a loose term in Deism.. I prefer Creator, I simply recognize it as some force somewhere in the universe that got shit moving.
MrJohnWatches 2 months ago
@SumAwe69 Then how does the concept exist?
SumAwe69 2 months ago
Wow bro for the last 30 min I've been saying the same thing...he talks a lot but says nothing. Not gunna lie...at first I actually thought he made excellent points against Deism because he talked so much. As I reviewed it however, I saw through him.
I've never seen verbal gymnastics make something so meaningless appear like it's saying something.
xTSxALLDAY 6 months ago
LOL I SWEAR.. I just watched "Deism is D for Dumb" for the first time ever right before I watched your response for the first time. All I could think of was "he literally makes no argument at all."
xTSxALLDAY 6 months ago
He can't make an argument against Deism because Deists will only stand behind what is logical and probable.
JasonHouston77 8 months ago
(continued) that argument doesn't really hold up.. Because that gets into the argument of reality and what you see is simply sense data, and sense data can be argued does not in fact inform us of the reality in which we live. And the only thing we can really affirm exists(as said by some philosophers) is our own consciousness. And thus that child might not actually exist at all, and to him, you might not really exist at all, and everyone and everything is formed via our own imagination.
Kedonata 9 months ago
(continued) it does propose that their is indeed a god. Now I will grant you, Atheism does not have all the answers, and you can throw out the "Give me proof God does not exist" argument. But this argument is full of holes and you would be only doing a grave disservice to your ideology. After all this same argument could be give to say a child's imaginary friend. And while you may try to throw out a easy answer like you do not see it therefor it does not exist. But upon closer inspection
Kedonata 9 months ago
I think you completely missed DasAmericanAethiest's points. What he is saying is that Deists by saying that you come to find god not threw revelation but threw rational thought climbs a dangerous slope in judging what is and what is not, rational thought. I will say that him saying Deism relies on "Appeals to ignorance" is incorrect. But Deism proposes that their is a god who made it all, and then left it all to be. (And like it or not, Deism has no proof a God exists, and thus it does propose-
Kedonata 9 months ago
Nicely done iDeist. If you watch just one of his videos, it is very clear how arrogant and inlove with himself he really is.' Long winded and a lot of noise' pretty much sums him up.
hibeango 10 months ago
@hibeango lol thank you kindly! =)
iDeist 10 months ago
Well said! I recently discovered Deism and after years of search I find myself in a place where I feel like I belong.
lindaterese33 10 months ago 2
@lindaterese33 Thank you, and glad you found a place you're comfortable with.
iDeist 10 months ago
Deism for best future :D
tunisiangeek 10 months ago
Brilliant, well said iDeist.
khasseki 11 months ago 3
@khasseki thank you =)
iDeist 11 months ago
You totally owned that ignorant asshole from the other video. I've recently discovered Deism for myself. Thanks for fighting the good fight.
CertifiedGooner729 11 months ago
That Santa hat he was wearing was amusing, but it was nowhere near as amusing as his chin dimple. Haha.
WeinerschnitzeI 11 months ago
Finally a Deist who's well spoken and well read on youtube and isn't some basic guy attacking religion. Nice work dude. I've been waiting for someone like you to pop up and defend our belief with efficiency.
brillohead89 1 year ago
@brillohead89 thank you for the kind words.
iDeist 1 year ago
You say you believe in a deity, but do not propose there is one. Starnge, since you believe there in a deity, then you are making a proposition for the existence of one based upon your belief. Many theistic and deistic arguments are exactly the same, and can be dealt with as such. I have yet to see one which is sensible. They are usually the fine tuned argument which you allude to which is just childish.
asianlife53 1 year ago
@asianlife53 No, I said I believe in a Creator, it's a philosophical belief. It could be aliens, a God, group of Gods, etc. Besides the theist who believes in a God, I have no religion what so ever. I dont believe in superstitions, any religious books, rituals, prophecy, or anything religous at all for that matter (cont'd_
iDeist 1 year ago
@iDeist , so your comparison is "I" for idiotic. If you wanna debate me on why I think things just didnt happen naturalistically, we can do that all day. As a Deist, I simply lack a belief in metaphysical naturalism.
iDeist 1 year ago
@iDeist Well I prefer to take the definition from the Religioustolerance website, which says that a deist is someone who believes in a deity. The difference being that a theist believes in personal deity whereas deists tend to go for a more impersonal one. As regards believing in any deity, I cannot see any logical reason for doing so.
asianlife53 1 year ago
Very well spoken sir. I couldn't even finish watching that idiots video as it was just incoherent rambling
NaztyNayt 1 year ago
Weak video.
How can you say no points were made? The point was that all arguments against the existance of a God still apply to deism. He's hardly going to list them all in a video targetted at broadly explaining the concept of deism and why he doesn't rate it.
vadmiza 1 year ago
@vadmiza cop out
EzacTrenton 11 months ago
@osityan as I suspected. A coward.
iDeist 1 year ago
Simple.
1.YOU have the belief.
2.The beleif is unfounded as there is no evidence so this is pretty weak.
3. The burden IS on you since it's YOUR belief.
You are stuck on semantics in your video for no usefull purpose.
osityan 1 year ago
@osityan debate me
iDeist 1 year ago
@osityan
Yes, I have the belief. And I'm not stating fact, I'm stating belief, unlike Atheists who categorically state there is no God. The rules of logic dictate that the one stating the fact shoulders the burden of proof.
Premise: I believe in God. -True.
Therefore: I believe in God. -Valid.
I can't prove God and you can't disprove God. It isn't until I claim God exists, and Jesus Christ is the only way to heaven....THEN you'll have a point, but until then you don't.
mgatling 1 year ago
Actually, he did provide an argument, but you have failed to address it. I wonder if you even watched more than a minute of his video.
Stringprodigy 1 year ago
@Stringprodigy, if so, then can you just tell me one of his arguments?
genehuk 1 year ago
lol @ nice santa hat
jaycsouth 1 year ago
Instead of trying to offend theists why not try heading at atheism? THATS ACTUALLY OPPOSING YOUR BELIEFS. Theists aren't messing with you but you choose for some reason to try to offend them, wth is the point?
NintendoDSVampire 1 year ago
You roasted that guy. Thanks.
stephenhawkingcam 1 year ago
I'm not surprised to see that this person didn't reply to your video.
He has a huge ego and debunk any form of spirituality, I understand his arguments against Theism but qualify Deism as dumb was just mean.
Sometimes the Atheists are not better than the Theists.
I considered myself as an Atheist but now I think I change my mind.
The Deists don't criticize or reject science, they don't try to brainwash people and it's their right if they want to be spiritual.
trentspirit1 1 year ago
I thank you very much for posting this. I completely in this, I was dismayed to see the Deism is D for Dumb. Thank you. (I'm also a Deist, and I agreed with everything you said.)
Head1stFearless 1 year ago
It's sad to see Deists, Agnostics and Atheists fighting each other like this.
Surely we can make a united stand for rationalism and science and against superstition. Thats more important.
celshader 1 year ago 3
@celshader The problem is Atheists (not all but a lot) tend to have a rebellious attitude to anyone who doesn't just surrender throw their hands up and shout "Ok there is no God!", now Christians and Muslims tend to get very fired up when u question there religion this satisfies alot of Atheists combative nature by them running over their biblical beliefs (kind of makes them easy targets) where as Deists don't really care what you think of them or their beliefs that really burns them lol.
khasseki 11 months ago
Re: "I'm not going to get into (stuff you got into anyway)"
"Fine tuned universe" is the song of a puddle that thinks the hole he's sitting in was designed just for him because it fits his curves so well.
ByteSmasher 1 year ago
Well put. That guy really didn't have a clue what deism is. I got a feeling he just wanted people to watch his videos. Did he ever get back to you?
guy07amv 1 year ago 9
@guy07amv nope, never replied back
iDeist 1 year ago
you haven't got a clue, lol go post about how astro physics is dumb too. Deism has far more logic than any religion.
dpalmacci 1 year ago
hahhahahhahaahah the guy is a fucking prick whore he doesnt know what deism is
chrissjg 1 year ago
thank you for posting this video :)
i could not have put it into better words
HauntedShores06 1 year ago
My pleasure and thank you,
iDeist 1 year ago
i do not have the knowledge or proof of god/gods existence nor do i have the right to say god/gods dont exist or what god/gods responsibility's are in this universe.
i can only say that we as humans don't have the ability to comprehend gods existence.
diesm just makes sense
overmind12 2 years ago
deist believe that here is some higher power(be it white bearded daddy or higher science) that doesn't mettle(since scientific fact knows that there are laws). deist founders were trying to not kill "god" with their knowlege because that was a sin in their day. we aren't atheist because all the questions haven't been answered. if they are, someday we might convert. as of now, we are the only belief system that still looks for logic. deists are against blind faith and acceptance of ignorance.
AExendine1 2 years ago
can you explain diesm to me srry just curious???
medaphsyco 2 years ago
It's Christianity with a different name on it.
Dwaithy 2 years ago
@Dwaithy
EPIC FAIL!
KSH2006 1 year ago 6
Belief that there is some sort of higher power, but not claiming to know any particular attributes about the higher power. That would be a basic definition but may not be wholly inclusive.
MiracleOfRealism 2 years ago
Easy there, cowboy. You need to understand that if you are saying that you can refute refutations of cosmological arguments like Kalām on YouTube, be aware that you have wandered into the tall grass.
kidigus 2 years ago
Come on ideist, we should all know by now that Muslims, Jews, Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, Sikhs, Mormons..breathe.. Psychics, animists, Shintos, Confucians...breathe... Deists, pussy agnostics, New Agers, weak atheists and anyone else who disagrees with strong atheists about anything are stupid. It is obvious why can't u see it?
agnostaxian 2 years ago 6
I get called it enough, so you might be right hahahaha
iDeist 2 years ago
I am an atheist, but one word I'd never use to describe any deist I've spoken to is dumb.
MtlRedAtheist 2 years ago 35
@MtlRedAtheist - I'm neither and atheist or a deist.
But I appreciate when people refrain from using such words that are only aimed to insult and hurt (ad hominem style! lol)
So yeah, people like you, are appreciated. Thank you for your dignified structure.
YourDarkAccomplice 1 year ago
I agree. Broad brush. The typical atheist argument against deism is this, a bunch of strawmen and painting everything with a strawman{not all atheist arguments against deism are thus, some are good arguments, but most are'nt}.
Kudos iDeist
; )
Iconoclastithon 2 years ago 2
thank you Icon!
iDeist 2 years ago
You're welcome, and thanks back.
: )
Iconoclastithon 2 years ago
I hope this debate happens. I tihnk it would be far more interesting than the usual, "shooting fish in a barrel", atheist vs theist debates.
FriendOregon 2 years ago 2
I would also Oregon.
iDeist 2 years ago
Think hard is right, lol.
FSMhasRisen 2 years ago
1. Do you think the fact that there is evil in the world is something deists too need to reconsile somewhat? I mean like earthquakes. Are they because his creation is broken, or are they because the prime mover might not be all that good or something like that?
2. Do you think you need to put some quality on the prime mover before you can call yourself a deist? Must it be an agent, sentient being of some sort. Are deists obligated to define what a deity is before they can be a deist?
Censeo 2 years ago
Hi, Censeo. Long time mate. Let me try to give you what I think, might not be the same as anyone else. As far as what I think goes, about the Earthquakes and the such, I dont know. That seems a copout response but I actually have a decent point of view on that and I'll make a video soon about it, I dont wanna cheapen it with a non-direct comment. Your second question, I do believe whatever it is, is conscious, but I dont wanna say anyone is obligated to believe what I do. I could to a vid.
iDeist 2 years ago
Yeah, it's been a while! Thanks for replying.
As far as my response is on my second question, it is yeah, they do need to think prime mover is an agent otherwise they are not deists.
The thing aside from atheism which I now investigate is pantheism. Pantheism being ideas in the line of that the universe is being a subconscious force trying to understand itself, which is why sentient beings are evolved. That all matter has a primordial conscousness. It is a mindboggeling idea =)
Censeo 2 years ago
I agree, it could be that that's what it is. I have no problem with that. I find that idea, actually fascinating, I made a vid on it. Wouldnt that be something lol. Anyway, good to hear youre doing well, and be around more often, you make me think.
iDeist 2 years ago
If you are going to attempt to criticize somebody for utilizing "ad hominem" fallacies, you should at least avoid them.
joejames007 2 years ago
I never once used the words "ad hominem", so actually learn them, and listen. Please state in my response where I said it.
iDeist 2 years ago
That is part of the beauty of formal logic, you don't have to say "reductio ad absurdum" or "non sequitur" to use them in an argument. The problem with your video is that you are criticizing DasAmericanAtheist for utilizing "ad hominem" attacks (even if you never said it textually) as for him saying deists are dumb, etc.
Your criticism is actually correct, the problem is that you fall into the very same fallacy later. An example is your mantra of "he has no argument", between other things.
joejames007 2 years ago
lol I can see your point, but what exactly is his argument, besides that Deists are dumb?
iDeist 2 years ago
I finished my last day of Philosophy class today and I figured out why I dislike atheism so much: Logical Positivism. When you understand this philosophy, you'll understand exactly what's wrong with the New Atheist Movement. In truth, the movement is a revival of this self-contradicting philosophy. And the primary reason this movement exists at all is religious bigotry.
If there is no certainty and the verification principle is a crock of shit, who cares if I think God exists?
FlowCell 2 years ago 17
Congrats on finishing your class, I hope you liked it, and if nothing else, I care lol
iDeist 2 years ago
I loved the class! Next up will be Formal Logic class. This is kind of weird for me to be going back to college I guess. I already got my Bio degree, but now I actually have the time and money to take all those classes I wish I had taken. What's really great is that I'm filling in the missing peaces to the proverbial puzzle and I'm getting the answers I'm looking for. I see myself as a truth seeker on the impossible quest for God. LOL.
FlowCell 2 years ago
youre going to be a polymath lol.
iDeist 2 years ago
Flatterer. :)
FlowCell 2 years ago