Alan Watts - The Ceramic and the Fully Automatic

[mugikuyu]

Wonderful video... thank you kindly. I think it deserves way more hit than it's getting. Check to see that the tags that you use also list Alan's names and the title of the lecture so that it's easier for people to find.

Wonderful video... thank you!

I too make video's of Alan's lectures that I welcome you to review...

[xezene1]

Wondrous. Thank you for putting this together and sharing it with us.

[funningincircles]

The wave is a good analogy for our connection to the physical world. I completely disagree with Alan Watts' conclusion, however. When a wave crashes onto the shore, the water that made up the wave returns to the ocean, but the wave is still gone. Likewise, when I am dead, the material that made up my body will continue on, but that does not mean I must value that material as much as I value it now. Alive is still better than dead (from my perspective)

[semihibernation]

@funningincircles you miss the point. you're identifying with the wave as yourself when you;re actually the ocean

[funningincircles]

@semihibernation  But there are waves. And I am an individual. When my body dies, my hands will no longer be able to shape things, my brain will no longer be able to make decisions, my eyes will no longer see things. When my body dies it will not matter if I defined myself as my brain, my whole body, or as the universe, these abilities will still be only in the past. Pretending that this is not a loss is a lie.

[0pt]

@funningincircles, with that kind of attachment to yourself or "I", you will never agree with any of these points. You have to let go to truly understand, it's hard but you'll end up being MUCH happier the better you understand the point.. remember, we are all just ONE big happening!

please read up on "the ego" to understand more

[Jotto999]

@0pt Funningincircles makes a good point, and I also don't agree with Watts here. We can demonstrate quite nicely (yes, with science) that every single type of thought and emotion (yes, including love) is done by things your brain is doing. You alter the brain, you alter the mind. You kill part of a brain, you kill part of a mind. Same with the whole thing.

This is a well established fact and Watt's conclusion doesn't seem to be taking this into account. That's why I disagree.

[ZEDZOR2]

@Jotto999 huh!

[DemonHermit]

@Jotto999 Of course when you kill a part of the brain you kill a part of the mind. He's not arguing that the mind is eternal. All Watts is arguing that we are not seperate from the universe.

Look at it this way, when exactly did the Big Bang end? 1 second after it exploded? 5 seconds, 10 years? The answer is the big bang hasn't ended yet. It's still happening, and we are made of the stuff of the big bang, we are the big bang happening. Being a seperate "result" is just a concept.

[Jotto999]

@DemonHermit He said that nonsense about "not being only inside your skin". We are. Our bodies may be part of the universe, sure. But the specific thing that constitutes your mind, your brain, is in fact different from the rest of the universe in an important way. Specifically, you are self-aware but a rock is not. What he said sounded very new-age, pseudosciency.

[DemonHermit]

@Jotto999 If you look at it narrowly and on the surface, sure we are just in our skin.

Lets look at it in a broader sense. Our bodies are constantly relying on our environments to sustain existance. We need oxygen, food, a planet with a sufficient atmosphere, a sun to keep us in orbit, etc. We rely on the rest of the universe to exist just like our own beating heart. The line we draw seperating us from the universe is just as imaginary as the lines we draw seperating the countries.

[SOLIDSNAKEz28]

@Jotto999 The mind and the Brain are two completely different things, my friend. Your brain is simply the interface between the mind and the physical body, in very much the same way that the UPC of a computer is the interface between the UN-decoded WiFi internet and the actual computer itself. The point I'm trying to make is that, the mind is not physical. If you picture an object in you're mind, you'll never be able to find it by dissecting the brain, you're thoughts are not physical.

[Jotto999]

@SOLIDSNAKEz28 Yes thoughts are physical, you have new-age delusions about the mind that are obsolete. We can observe neurons firing in accordance with what is going on. Your opinion on this matter is simply out of date and contradicted by the facts.

[SOLIDSNAKEz28]

@Jotto999 "We can observe neurons firing in accordance with what is going on..."

You fail to realize that Neurons are part of the physical BRAIN. Not the Mind. Neurons are NOT thoughts. Thoughts themselves are not physical. When you think of an object, for instance, a bright red Coke-cola can, what is it that's creating that image other than your own free will?

[Jotto999]

@SOLIDSNAKEz28 "Thoughts themselves are not physical."

And how do you support this assertion? Especially since we already have supported models that go against that completely?

Imagining a red coke can would require activity in the visual cortex as well as in the prefrontal cortex. Oh why am I even bothering? GO LOOK IT UP!

[ZEDZOR2]

@funningincircles Build a pyramid if u must.

[DemonHermit]

@funningincircles "Pretending that this is not a loss is a lie."

No, pretending that matter in a certain shape (a human) is somehow more special than another shape is a lie. When you die, in the eyes of the universe, nothing is lost. All the matter is still there, it is just a change in form. Yes the mind dies, but the illusion that all you are a seperate mind is what we call the ego. Your ego is the only thing that fears death and thinks it is a loss.

You were dead before you were born.