1:54 - 2:32 I think that clearly shows that Rob Bell doesn't understand an important part of God's nature, his justice and wrath against evil. Men have to be saved from the wrath of God, and the way God provided IS good news. We're saved from his holy wrath. Rob Bell, for this reason, shouldn't be a pastor. His Bible says that God is just and that we are saved from his wrath, so why doesn't Rob Bell teach that?
Guys...does anyone see that what Bell is saying is that with or WITHOUT God we still get to Heaven? Does anyone see that his message is that Christ is actually not the only way to the Father? "And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them." Eph. 5:11
LOVE WINS YEAH!!!... SO IS JUSTICE!!! but love and justice are the dilemma that GOD solved in the person of Jesus Christ. But in the after life, the Bible says there is no more chance to decide, because is in Earth that every one choose or reject Jesus.
Rob Bell is a master at twisting the bible, like many of the Pharisees did. According to rob why should i believe? If I'm going to be saved then why should I take the narrow path and go though the hardships of that path? Too many people these day do not read the bible they read what others have wrote or spoken believing every word. The bible is where you find the correct answers. Not according to a man.
Rob bell is not understanding the Bible. The Bible clearly says that people will go to hell. Rob Bell is saying that EVERYONE goes to heaven!! NO NO NO people who don't believe in Jesus will go to the lake of fire. As said in revelation. Jesus is THE Way, THE Truth, and THE Light!!! Works don't get you to heaven, only by Jesus can you go to The Father.
Aha, so you didn't read his book where Rob Bell explains the misconceptions about hell. You are just criticising the video which is pretty much a trailer for the book.
@BeauG92 (There is so much exegesis and historical evidence out there to support the doctrine of atonement, so why ignore it?)
Yet there remains one sin that Jesus didn't die for. That one sin remains rejecting Him, & because He is the "Word" become flesh, that includes rejection of His word. Note that when mankind was removed from the garden, there remained only one way back in. There's still only one way. The tribe of Dan thought that they could get away without going to the temple too.
So then please oh please. Someone explain to me why the Son of God had to be slaughtered on a cross for me, if i don't need to accept Him to go to heaven(thats exactly what bell is saying, there's no way around it because ghandi died being a hindu and never accepted Christ and bell thinks he's in heaven). There would be no reason to choose a life in Jesus if there is no punishment of hell. This would mean i can just go live how i please if there is no eternal punishment.
I see 2 groups of people. Ones that have an opinion based on doing and understanding the Word, and those who are spouting their own opinion of how Jesus and God should be. Gee I wonder who is right? Thankfully the book of 1 John ch. 2 says that between the Word and the Holy Spirit we can identify false teaching.
Given time more people will discover that many of our medieval interpretations didn't reflect what the original biblical text meant. Rob just found that earlier and remains courageous. And not alone.
why?,why? & why again? do u remember your sin?. God doesnt remember your sin. he has forgotten it on purpose so that he may relate himself, a sinless, holy being, to each of us who accepts him .
sin is in our past!!,a christian is in christ and christ in them! true? if so that means we are apart from sin.
sin is NOT being bad!! .SIN IS ABSENCE FROM GOD
therefore if God is in our hearts minds and souls he is in relation with a NOW purchased pure being possible because of christ self punishment
This is a bunch of Calvinistic Hocus Pocus....Either you believe that Jesus LIVED- Died for your sins/Cross and Rose the third day according to scripture...OR you don't. THE Bible is not a book written to those who do not believe(unbeliever do read it)...It's a Book to show us what happen& how to be reconcile and to Live for the GLORY of GOD....FORCE Love is Rape....GOD is a gentleman HE will not force HIS will on anyone....I beg you to believe and be reconcile to God.
In Bells book he redefines the meaning of both Heaven and Hell by twisting the word of God and taking scriptures out of context. By redefining Hell, Bell makes Jesus responsible for the suffering and abuse that children receive. You can read how he does it at Hells Bell Dot Bell
Notice how many scriptures Bell takes out of context? Here's a few: he says 1 Cor 3:15 applies to non-believers, he believes non-believers have "talents" from God - the scriptures says God gives talents to his "servants", implies God won't destroy the wicked because Abraham said "will not the judge of all the earth do right"? - that verse is talking about the righteous, not the wicked. Says Heaven & Hell are in the prodigal son story, which their not. Read it at Hells Bell Dot Net
Bell's problem is that he doesn't care what the word of God says. It's easy to see. Almost every verse he uses in his book is taken out of context and made to say something God never intended the verse to say. If you'd like to read a review that shows Bells errors and the deception behind his work, visit... Hells Bell Dot..... Net
@PreachingJesus I think it's rather judgmental of you to assume that Bell doesn't care what the word of God says. It's ridiculous you could be so ignorant to discount all the life energy he pours into his work. You honestly think he just has some evil plan to deceive people?! I can tell you haven't read into the other side of the issue much, it's dangerous to assume your way of looking at things is always right. I used to be you at one point, life really opens up when you open up to being wrong.
A lot of false teaches pour their life into their work. Just look at the Jehovah's Witnesses. How can Bell care about God's word when the takes passages out of CONTEXT over and over and over again. (I show this on the site). Someone with only a basic reading ability and a basic understanding of the bible could see that Bell pulls scripture out of CONTEXT to make them say something God never intended.
@PreachingJesus To read scripture literally is taking it out of context. You must read the bible LITERARILY which allows for a deeper understanding of the text. It's like if you read the book Catcher in the Rye. When Holden's talking about the ducks in the pond in the winter, he's not talking about ducks, he's talking about himself. When Jesus talks about Gehenna, he doesn't mean you will literally go into an eternal fire, he's using it to describe the very real, present result of sin.
So when Paul says that no fornicator will inherit God's kingdom (1 Cor 6:9) , we shouldn't believe what he said? How should we spiritualize that passage so we get the "deeper understanding of the text"? Please tell me.
Hell is not "present result of sin". Hell is where sinners are cast into...the bible is clear. I cover Bell's false teaching on this on my site under the title "Hell - New and Improved". If you can show me where I'm wrong I'll listen..but you have to use the scripture, not just your own words and ideas. In Bell's book, with his definition of Hell, he makes Jesus responsible for the suffering of abused and tortured children. Hells Bell Dot Net
If Bell's biblical scholarship is the standard that people will accept from those who call themselves elders and teachers in the body of Christ...then it's no wonder Christianity is in the condition that it's in today.
@PreachingJesus The reason Christian Faith is not moving rapidly in the U.S. is because until recently all we were hearing was the same old phariseeism from the religious right. Now, with leaders like Bell and McLaren, we are getting back to the kind of Kingdom Jesus called us to.
i thank you sir. if you are the one who put this video together, you have done the gospel well, and brought it together truthfully. for so long i was deceived in the one prayer salvation message, but God has shown me that the only thing that leads me to is destruction. Hallelujah for Jesus' sacrifice! Hallelujah for His Grace! not only is He spotless and holy, but merciful and graceful! Hallelujah for Him switching me places, justifying me! amen
@Vendetta1886 do not judge, as Jesus has said is the right way. with that out of the way, please tell me what point is being missed? do not the pastors tell the truth of the gospels? aren't those passages in the bible, and speak directly against what Mr. Bell said? in a sense, Mr. Bell is correct in saying love wins, in that honey is more attractive than vinegar, and that the love of God convinces to save, but without Jesus' sacrifice, we are still separated from a holy God.
@CartesianTheist Now I'll not argue anymore. If you really WANT to believe that he is wrong and you are right, just keep repeating this to yourself and this will became true in your mind.
God is doing His job. Using people as Paul washer, John Piper and Rob Bell. Each one with a different style and a different approach. Because in the end God is far more complex for one man alone understand Him.
@CartesianTheist Last thing... You've quoted a part of the vídeo "...... God is going to send you to hell unless you believe in Jesus ....." And believe is not sit and say "I believe. Is living a life of love, compassion. Is trying to live like Jesus, more for the other, less for yourself. ".....But what kind of God is that that we would need rescued from this God?...." Is a righteousness God. BUT is the SAME God that sends His own son to PAY THE COST OF SIN that is DEATH.
@CartesianTheist Son, read the book. I'll not argue with someone who talk based in semi-facts. You CLEARLY don't know the content of the book. You are only walking in circles around what you think is in the book (and you really believe that you imagination is the truth). He have made a video with a lot of questions, and strange ones, because he wanted to discuss about with and give the answers. Only because someone have a different method to teach does not mean that he is teaching lies.
@CartesianTheist " You don't need to be Sherlock Holmes to work it out". You don't need to be, only need to read the book and you'll discover. Or you think that your guessing is more real than the truth? Only because you believe the book is a lie then it MUST be a lie.
If you really saw the video and read the commentaries and didn't see the aggression against Bell you must be so used with aggression that you even not realize it.
About your questions. Stop being lazy. Pharisee, read the book.
@CartesianTheist Clearly the video only makes the questions, this is because logically the answers are in the book. So, why criticize the video? What kind of Christianity is this that simply goes with anger and aggression?
About Jesus, Bell's says that he died as a payment. A payment for us. To save us from the destiny that we deserve, condemnation. To anyone and everyone who believe in him. BUT, he discuss the whole book about this "believing", that must be LIVED. For more information READ IT
@CartesianTheist So is it ok people criticize the Bible only because in their IGNORANT point of view is "suggesting" bad things?
I can make a promo video of the bible only with 1 king 11:3 (bigamy), Genesis 19:30-38 (incest), Judges 11:30-40 (child sacrifice) and leviticus 18:22 (homosexuality). So, you have to agree with me that PARTS OF A BOOK WITHOUT THE CONTEXT OF THE SAME BOOK are only random statements in the air. Read the book pharisees.
It's so easy to make a video response to other video. But I doubt you've read the book. The answers you are giving are the same as he. There are people that condemn the bible without reading with and you are doing the same thing but with Rob Bell's book. You are showing yourself as ignorant as the anti-christian people.
Perhaps the defining point in the book is when Rob Bell quotes Martin Luther as proposing that God would be unkind and evil to sentence people to an eternity of hell.
Then for some reason Rob Bell ends the quote at exactly the spot where Martin Luther addresses the heresy of Universalism and the contradictory nature of it in light of the whole of scripture.
This quote/misquote in Love Wins defines the dishonesty of Rob Bells "new" gospel.
@ageofgrace If you really read the book you either didn't understand it or you are intentionally distorting its message. First, you quote nothing to make your point. Go out of your way next time and do that. Second, Bell makes it clear that he is not a universalist. Basically what your post reveals is not Bell's dishonesty but yours.
@ageofgrace Bell clearly shows that he is not a universalist on p. 114 of his book. BTW it is telling that you still won't provide a quote for your claim. Hmmm. Warning of hell is no way to preach. Instead, Bell invites people to be disciples of Jesus. I'm grateful there are preachers like Bell out there who make the gospel clear instead of filling it with fear. That's the Gospel of the New Testament
On page 108 of his book (to be precise, an advance reader copy), Bell makes the following statement:
And then there are others who can live with two destinations, two realities after death, but insist that there must be some kind of "second chance" for those who don't believe in Jesus in this lifetime. In a letter Martin Luther, wrote to Hans von Rechenberg in 1522 he considered the possibility that people could turn to God after death, asking: "Who would doubt God's ability to do that?"
Bell then, handily and conveniently leaves out the next sentence where Martin Luther says "No one, however, can prove that he does do this. For all that we read is that he has already raised people from the dead and thus granted them faith. But whether he gives faith or not, it is impossible for anyone to be saved without faith. Otherwise every sermon, the gospel, and faith would be vain, false, and deceptive, since the entire gospel makes faith necessary."
@ageofgrace Of course there is another book that claims a person can come to God after death and that is the Bible. I Peter 3:18-4:6 clearly makes such a claim. Jesus preached to spirits in prison (hell) who had that destination after rejecting Noah's preaching. To think Jesus would do that just once and never again would be against the justice and grace he proclaimed. And there's another major Christian leader who held such a view, C.S. Lewis. You calling him a heretic too?
Not a good passage to cite. What did Jesus preach? What was the decision of the those who were preached to? To preach to someone doesn't mean you change their destiny. Nor does it mean their destiny can be changed. Did Peter witness this?
This passage has nothing to do with salvation after death. It has to do with the consistency of Gods salvation throughout time.
@ageofgrace Jesus preaching to spirits in prison is pretty deep spiritual stuff. Here's the thing. You see Peter had this relationship with Jesus. He was a disciple. If anyone would have been told that, he would.
Very sloppy interpretation.....are you an actual student of Bells?
No where in the bible.......NOWHERE .............are humans before or after death referred to as sprits....only demons. There is only one interpretation of spirits here. Jesus preached (or proclaimed to the DEMONS in prison). Any other interpretation is suspect, as are all of Bells notions that he employs to be "radical and hip" at the cost of scripture and souls.
Do yourself a favour and flush Love Wins down the toilet
@ageofgrace You are so wrong. Right there in I Peter is says that very thing, "spirits". If you even bother to actually read the text, there is no way you could come to the conclusion that those spirits are demons. Jesus would have no reason to preach to demons anyway. If anything is worse than silly, that's it. Demons had already defected long ago.
I am not a student of Bell, have never met him. I am perplexed at the ridiculous comments attempting to take apart his good theology.
Yes it is silly....but based on pretext error on your part.
Preaching or proclaiming to demons is EXACTLY what Christ would after his victory on the cross. The idea that it is "good news" is your idea...not the bibles. Maybe to you or I it is good news...not to demons.
Yes Peter says "spirits". It is the word used to describe demons EVERYTIME in the NT and OT. No exceptions. To say that "spirits" mean soul or spirit or the condition of a person that has died is incorrect.
The problem is not reading the text. The problem is not knowing what the text means. If you go to the scripture for the meaning,....you will see the meaning is demon. If you go to Rob Bell, you will get what Rob Bell want it to mean.
Also Rob Bell makes no apologies about it. His big epiphany was when he discovered the bible is an esoteric book that means whatever you want it to mean.
Bell despises doctrine...whether its hell or having faith in yourself, Bell is a dangerous man
@ageofgrace If you bother to simply consider the external and internal evidence, via good exegesis, the meaning is obviously "spirit". That is what virtually all theologians accept. I'm going to be blunt, your accusation against Bell that he has the Bible mean what ever he wants it to mean, is pure BS, and nothing short of that. You, however, seem to be guilty of that very crime.
@ageofgrace 1. That is precisely what most theologians accept. 2. There is no need for another reference to show that spirits refer to human spirits. I already referenced the internal and external evidence, niether of which support you. Again, your conclusion is BS. 3. Whether Bell's conclusion about Peter on the water is accurate, hardly makes that a "great distortion". However, again your interpretation IS the distortion.
You should change your username to "rigid-law". You missed grace.
The reason you say there no need for a reference is because there isnt one.
You did not reference any internal or external evidence. You just said you did.
Only a Bellian would say that faith in man trumps faith in God is NOT a great distortion.
Grace? ...Grace as opposed to what?
Mercy? ...Mercy from what?
Saved? ....Saved from what?
In Bells world we are saved from nothing more than Gods impotent justice and ambiguous truth. Grace without truth is a farce. Love without justice is a sham.
@ageofgrace You are putting words in Bells mouth. You demean the name by which you are called. No where did Bell say faith in man trumps faith in God. Your post is a disgrace. BTW, the external evidence is that the Greek word in I Ptr. clearly says "spirit". The Internal evidence is the context which refers to those PEOPLE, NOT DEMONS who rejected God. For the last time. Your distorted view of Christian Faith makes no case.
BTW, I've read all of Bell's books. I've seen most of the noomas.
Was there anything in this video that made you come to the conclusion that what Bell has essentially said is the same truth spoken by Jesus in John 14:6 “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me"? Did you get that impression at all...? I didn't. On the contrary, those question in the beginning only leave room for "...maybe Jesus isn't the only way.....?!"
@landsdown44, are you sure? this is what he says "...how do u become one of the few? is it what u believe, or what you say, or what you do, or WHO you know, or something that happens in your heart, or you need to be initiated, or baptized, or take a class, or converted, or or be born again? how does one become one of THESE few?" Also look at "Gandi's in hell? He is? And someone knows this for sure?" Question: Did Gandi hear @ did he know about Jesus? Did he accept Him or did he reject Him? Think
@flotopo The Bible is not as "cut and dried" as you seem to suppose. Paul says believe. Jesus says that many who call him Lord will be refused because they neglected the poor. And do you really believe that people who responded in the best way they knew to the God of their understanding will be rejected just because they were born on the wrong continent, never hearing the truth? Perhaps you are defending a Christian fundamentalist God, not the God of the Scriptures.
I do believe the Bible means what it says in John 14:6 when Jesus says that no one comes to the Father except through Me". That statement is either true or not. That's a matter of your choice. So the Bible IS very "cut and dried", even though you may not like it. As for the example of the person born on the wrong continent, never hearing the truth, God makes Himself known in creation Rom. 1:19-20, He reveals Himself in our conscience Rom. 2:14-15.We’re all accountable Luke 12:47-48
@flotopo Nothing I have stated and nothing Bell has written flies in the fact of John 14:6. The Bible is not as cut and dried as you would like it as I have already pointed out. Unfortunately, the clouds of creation don't spell out "get saved by me or else" and virtually no one who has never heard the Gospel would figure out that the God of creation is somehow connected to the Hebew deity you and I worship. Your statement doesn't hold water.
@landsdown44, You may label my statement as you see fit, that is your right, my BUT the Bible verses I presented are the ones that support everything I have said. Have you checked them out to see what they actually do say? I am not saying that if someone dies without having heard about Jesus and His gospel, they'll go to hell. The Word of God is inscribed in all men's hearts so they do have a moral point of reference to live and be judged by. That Word is Jesus...so in the end, He's the only way
@flotopo You appear to have edged somewhat closer to the position I hold, depending on what you mean by "the word of God inscribed on everyone's hearts". However, it seems that there are many who never really had a shot. Maybe that's why I Peter 3:19-4:6 claims Jesus preaches, not only to those who never heard, but even to those who had once rejected Jesus' Kingdom.,
@landsdown44That appears to be the case with I Peter 3:19-4:6, meaning those that never had a chance got theirs at that time, when Jesus as resurrected, but my point is this: if someone never heard the Gospel & they died but they were true to the Word that God has put in all men's hearts, then I am sure they'll go to Heaven, BUT if at one point in their life they heard the Gospel and rejected it due to different reasons, even if they had been true to the Word up until then, they have no chance.
@flotopo Our views seem to be very close. One thing though, the I Peter text says that there are those who rejected God in this life, still had the gospel preached to them after their physical death. It would be extremely unfair to make that a one time deal, like a special car sale one day only. It seems clear that God doesn't stop pursuing folks until sometime after one's physical death. Only God knows when it becomes like "hurling pearls before swine".
We seem to have close views, however, do notice there are views regarding I Peter that say those are angelic spirits, & that's an entire different discussion, while other views, and I believe this one, say that those are the people who died before the crucifixion of Jesus, so that would be a one time event & God would be fair as we know He is just in all He does. Also, the Bible says it is appointed to men once to die, but after this the judgment comes.So the only chance is in life
@flotopo I think Peter is telling us more about God's perserverence. Most authorities agree that Peter's issue is suffering of the early church. So Peter deals with the problem of evil and the problem of the unreached. I think he deals with both by proclaiming God's perservering love reaches even beyond the doors of death. Considering that those who heard the Gospel after their death had earlier rejected God, it seems persuasive to me. Anyway. I appreciate your respectful conversation.
I appreciate your attitude in our conversation. I believe in the end what's important is that we win people for Christ. I'd say this should be the focus of every Christian and every church. In the end, all the uncertainties, all the doctrines, all the things left hanging in the air will be one day uncovered and we'll understand them. Until then our focus should be to tell people about their need for Salvation. Wish you all the best and be blessed.
@landsdown44 wow and still the eastern orthodox goes on in peace and harmony, people all this was worked out centuries ago...but the orthodox patristics
Rob Bells gospel is a MAN centered gospel, where God tailors his love to suit man.
Love Wins is an appeal to the sinful nature of man, tickling the ears of those who reject sound doctrine and would rather hear words that sound good, but the end thereof is death.
As Paul put it.."even if an angel comes to you preaching another gospel, let him be accursed".
Let Rob Bell have his day in the sun. If He knew what grace was,....he wouldn't be so cavalier about truth.
"This is part of the problem with continually insisting that one of the absolutes of the Christian faith must be a belief that “Scripture alone” is our guide. It sounds nice, but it is not true. In reaction to abuses by the church, a group of believers during a time called the Reformation claimed that we only need the authority of the Bible."
"everything in creation is essentially unfinished, God leaves the world unfinished, and invites people to take part in the ongoing creation of the world."
Take for example Rob Bells idea in the Nooma video Dust.
In this video Bell says that Peter sunk in the water, NOT because he lacked faith in Jesus...but because he lacked faith in himself. Bell says that God has faith in us.???????
There is no greater distortion of faith than this.
I guarantee you....10 years from now Bell is going to run out of hip and cool distortions of scripture and eventually will be exposed for what he is. He will shock you when he goes too far and contradicts even something that YOU know is heresy. Then you will look back on all of this and the lightbulb will go off.
In fact, within the book of 1 Peter itself, Peter already had made reference to the fact that the Spirit “testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow” (1 Peter 1:11). But it was the prophets who did the actual speaking (vs. 10). Then, again in chapter 4, Peter stated that “the gospel was preached also to those who are dead” (1 Peter 4:6).
Second, when did Jesus do this preaching through the Holy Spirit? Notice in verse 20, the words “formerly” (NKJV) and “when”—“when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah.” So the preaching was done in the days of Noah by Jesus through the Holy Spirit Who, in turn, inspired Noah’s preaching (2 Peter 2:5).
Wrong you have misinterpreted , "prison", "spirits" and "preach". All 3 are laid out in scripture, however you have given all 3 new meanings to suit your Bellogian ideas.
Properly exegeted....
Spirits= demons
prison= safe keeping until thrown in the lake of fire
proclaiming= badnews for the demons.
There is nothing here about second-hand salvation after death.....
C.S,. Lewis like Bell is NOT a theologian and did not have a refined opinion on the subject of universalism. He was however a firm believer in hell. To say he was a universalist is to take a few of his quotes out of context and then IGNORE the rest of his whole life.
@ageofgrace C.S. Lewis was a professor of Literature. However, that wouldn't excuse him from being a heritic, now would it. Bell and Lewis hold the same belief. Also, you are confusing two theological points: believing in the possiblity of conversion after death is NOT the same as being a universalist. And, finally, YES, Bell IS a theologian. Anyone with a Masters Degree in theology is a theologian.
You are correct , there is a difference. However, both are outside the pale of orthodoxy. Lewis may have pondered conversion after death briefly,....Bell promotes it. Bell is NO theologian. anything he may have learned was thrown out the window long ago in favour of social justice styled Christianity. I may remind you that Bart Erhman who thinks Jesus was a fraud and the bible is completely a hoax is also a theologian, and is far more skilled than Bell could ever hope to be
“It would be quite a different question whether God can impart faith to some in the hour of death or after death so that these people could be saved through faith. Who would doubt God's ability to do that?
Now read the rest of the quote that Rob Bell purposely left out.
No one, however, can prove that he does do this. For all that we read is that he has already raised people from the dead and thus granted them faith. But whether he gives faith or not, it is impossible for anyone to be saved without faith. Otherwise every sermon, the gospel, and faith would be vain, false, and deceptive, since the entire gospel makes faith necessary.
Rob Bell says that he believes that those who did not receive Jesus while on this earth, will eventually be compelled, by the love of God, to submit to Him. After a lifetime of rejecting him? Even if it were true, the reason would be, to escape hell, not because they wanted God.
Driscoll and Piper? Come on. Even a first-year seminarian knows Calvinists aren't the only Christians for whom the GoodNews exists. Jesus comes to save all humankind. Free will as articulated by Paul as the greek word synergy. THISis the GoodNews. We all get to choose our salvation and live it out in fear and trembling; in our embrace of Jesus Christ, love wins. It's really that simple-down at bedrock.
@rickgigliotti ::: Bart Ehrman knows the bible. Carlton Pearson knows the bible. They know it is the word of man, not the word of God. There is a higher spiritual understanding than can be found in the bible.
@rickgigliotti He is why Paul says few should be teachers, because they carry so much responsibility for their message. I really hope he repents of this evil doctrine before he dies, or he'll learn firsthand how wrong he was.
This is great... Thanks for posting this.... I'm currently working through Rob's book now and find myself very, very, lost, and I've just started reading it..
Either Rob Bell is a very, very confused pastor with a erroneous understanding of the bible OR he is a false prophet, a wolve in sheepskin preaching heresy to deceive and confuse the flock of believers. With his false doctrine, he will eventually cause whoever is spiritually foolish, to lose their salvation.
2:01 You aren't sent to hell by God, you are sent to hell, by your SINS..and Jesus and God are one, so how could God hate you, and Jesus love you to the extent that he would die and rise again to defy "God's" will for you, which, Rob Bell apparently thinks, is for everyone to go to hell. The Bible doesn't teach that God hates us and wants us to burn in hell, it teaches us that he hates SIN. So, if you get that straight, there will be no need to make a new doctrine in order to know God as loving.
i didn't watch all this but you clearly did not read the book because the first passage makes much more sense in the context of living out the word in this word rather than the next.I am not saying that you are wrong about the Bible but you can't assume that you are any more than the rest of the world.The Bible has been globally misread by "orthodox" christians for 1000's of years.The Bible is a debate.Jesus would agree, he debated with the pharisees who were very devout and theological.
@connorthoughts Jesus didn't debate with the Pharisees who were "very devout and theological", He condemned the Pharisees who were religious and unloving. The outside of the 'cup' was clean while the inside was dirty as Jesus explains it. That's why they tried to discredit Jesus when he ate and sat with sinners and tax payers, because to them holiness was an exterior show.
Consider John 3:1-21, Nicodemus, a Pharisee, admits that they knew Jesus was from God yet the Pharisees still...
@connorthoughts ....condemned Jesus saying that He cast out demons by the power of Beezlebub. (Matthew 12:24)
As far as I know, Nicodemus was the only Pharisee who accepted Christ, they others believed and rejected Him. And as far as them being "theological", Jesus says to Nicodemus "Are you the teacher of Israel, and do not know these things?" in regards to needing to be "born again". A Pharisee, who should have been an expert in the OT laws and prophets, struggled understanding his Messiah.
@JordanRossMackenzie Ya I don't think you are necessarily disagreeing with me. I am not even sure what we are talking about now lol because this was like a week ago lol. THe last part I summarized because I ran out of characters but like you said, Jesus challenged their ways. Sometimes I wonder how Jesus could be so harsh to them but I realize it was out of love for them and to be clear in his message to the rest of the world. Overall, my point was, we get afraid to challenge current...
@connorthoughts Lol yeah fair enough. Yeah I wasn't trying to challenge what you were saying was just specifically talking about the Pharisees. Probably came across as arrogant, that's why I try to avoid writing too much in these communication mediums where I struggling conveying tone - ie, I often sound like a prick.
I just don't think that the Pharisees were genuine believers. They were 'spiritual' because of its political and monetary implications - and the social status.
@JordanRossMackenzie Haha. No I think you should keep speaking on here. You didnt sound like a prick and I think, as long as you are polite and argue your point in a logical loving manner, it is imperitive you do debate things. I read the book "how to win friends and influence people" and for a long time I was turned off of arguing because it seemed more destructive than helpful. But now I realize it is important to do it otherwise only the people who are okay arguing in a destructive manner..
@JordanRossMackenzie end up being the ones who paint societies perspective of the christian faith. So it is actually more loving at a societal level to debate things even if it does offend people (as long as you are trying not to offend them). AndIwould totally agree with you about the pharisees doing it for political and monetary reasons but I must point out too that they can bevery comparable to modern academics or theologians in that sense. Just saying we need to exam scripture for ourselves.
@connorthoughts Yeah nah I agree, that's a good point. Makes me wonder if Christ returned tomorrow that there wouldb be churches today that are almost identical to the Pharisees of Christ's day. But we won't get into that lol.
You should watch some of Mark Driscoll's videos. He's a great preacher. There is one video called 'You are in danger (extended version) that is really good. God Bless.
@JordanRossMackenzie ...views of the world because we assume since everyone believes something, it must be from God. I am a psych major and a theory in relation to this would be called "group polarization" if I recall correctly. People's views become more extreme in a group so that there viewpoint has strength. But ya, history demonstrates the failure of humanity to truly hear God. It is not God's ability to communicate but our ability to listen that fails. I like to consider faith from a...
@connorthoughts I think if we read all the passages on the pharisees and study them carefully we see people who knew Christ was the Messiah, and that famous verse where Christ claims to be the Son of God, and takes the title I AM (a direct indication and self proclamation of His Godliness) they wanted to stone Him to death. Not because they didn't believe He was what He claimed, Nicodemus and other verses show us they believed that, but because He threatened their way of life and corrupt nature.
@connorthoughts Also. People will forever have disputes over God, Christ, the gospel, etc. And Im specifically referring to Christians. But I think that always out understanding and conclusion of 'truth', absolute and complete truth, should come fro the Bible. Cor 1:20-21 Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him...
@connorthoughts ...God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe."
2 Timothy 3:16 "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness"
@JordanRossMackenzie ...scientific standpoint in the sense of using proven logical methods to determine the true meaning of the Bible and the presence of God. That is a whole other topic but I am just saying, Rob Bell's perspective is controversial but makes more sense to me intellectually and it unifies Jesus's method and my world view much better than the current paradigm where I consistently am fighting terrible inconsistencies and problems with it. That is what I am saying I think lol
Is this guy serious? Jesus does not rescue you from God, Mr. Bell, he restores your relationship with your Creator. He paid for your sin, which you are unable to do on your own. I don't need to say anything about what I think about Rob Bell, Galatians 1 says all that I think. This guy is a heretic, period.
@Guitarplyr76 you completely misunderstood his point. He wasn't saying those are the facts, but that is how it is portrayed in most people's minds. God sends people to hell, and, no matter how you wanna say it, "sin sends you to hell" or whatever, it is GOD that chooses, in his so called infinite love, wisdom, and power, to give us a limited time and unproportioned opportunity to make that choice.
Thank you for pointing out the truth. Just a suggestion on the video though. You should try to match the sound volume levels. Volume normalization. God bless
We all have our own path to walk and my hope is that it leads to true freedom and intelligence and growth for all without the need to push a 'Jesus is your golden ticket out of hell' theology on the world' After further investigation of the Bible and the person of Jesus I really don't think that's actually the bottom line of the 'gospel' I wish you all enlightenment on your journey . Peace.
say that this is sad and heretical, but the freedom in thinking for myself cancels out the fear of standing alone in my convictions and being labled and shunned. Rob Bell doesn't know everything and neither do fundamentalist and neither do I. I am not angry or frustrated anymore that people choose to judge me based on there own views... It's human nature. and it actually just amuses me now more then threatens me...
The fact of the matter is that this still doesn't silent my questions about the modernly translated bible or satisfy my search for the truth behind and beyond it. After seeing the white knuckled furious response by bible thumping christians from many different denominations about the ideas Rob Bell presents, which are more open minded then dogmatic, I move further and further away from so-called orthodox christianity and feel more and more relief and freedom in agnostisim. Many would say that
@splang He is? and you know this for sure? and felt the need to let the rest of us know?
Thanks man lol.
It's sad, but you speak the truth. Ghandi rejected christianity because of christians he had met and then tried to fit Christ to hinduism. Looking for enlightment through works and wisdom rather than seeking Christ to save him.
HOW CAN SOMEONE SO PATHETIC...JUST ASK ??? CREATING DOUBT OF GODS WORD WHICH IS SO EASY TO UNDERSTND...AND SO MANY ARE JUST LOVING HIS STUPID DAMNING MESSAGE....THIS VIDEO IS PERFCT...
HE IS A WOLF IN SHEEPS CLOTHING AND HIS COVER IS SLIPPING OFF BY HIS OWN DOING...WHO DOES HE PRAY TO??? OBVIOUSLY NOT GOD IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST, buddha, allah, HMMMM!!!!
People LISTEN you yourselves! "(this is directed to anyone who thinks that hell is "temporary" like rob bell.) Jesus says "ETERNAL punishement (i use caps only for emphasis) WHO can "explain away" that CLEAR statement from the LORD Jesus?? ZWOrds MEAN things. eternal means forever. IT NEVER means temporary! I don't know HOW on earth people can redefine a so CLEAR a word! its like saying "murder" only kills people for a while, murder does not keep people dead. See how ridiculous it is?
I have been studying the original text in the Bible for years aside from church influence and have come to the same points as Rob Bell before knowing about him. I am a historian and can also see many churches today follow erroneous medieval interpretations rather than the original church orthodoxy. I am ready to stand for truth and so are many. And the truth shall set you free. In love.
For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 2 Timothy 4:2-4
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
And they shall turn away ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
who ever is providing the scriptural voice is a whacko.rob bell may be inccorect in hi
sposition that love is the message of the gospel. these other whackos yelling and screaming have no idea either.....the gospel is; THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN IS AT HAND meaning it is perceivable on earth as it is in heaven through evidence and substance of what we hope for but cannot see, a gift of God, His grace by which we are saved
mark driscoll is as blind as a bat speaking of things he knowsbut doesnot
Ya know really its not our place to judge.. Every person that voices their opinions about the word or Jesus Christ takes on a big risk.. I have seen Rob Bell speak many times and I can assure you he is doing no harm.. He's reads the word and inturpets just like every other Pastor I have ever seen.. Watch some of his videos he explains things to us leaving that option of free will just as the bible does.. The difference in my opinion is after listening I no longer want free will!!
@Fudicia I would say a good place to draw the line is when you preach doctrine that explicitly ignores and contradicts the very core of the faith it claims to preach on. That's just... making stuff up and misleading millions of others in the process.
He's not just "interpreting" (an emphasis on which suggests God never actually told us anything objective about anything), he's outright picking and choosing stuff, taking it out of context, and fitting into a custom message that's a lie.
@Fudicia Interpreting in different than "redefining" Jesus says "Eternal punishment" ETERNAL means forever! always WILL. I hear people say "eternal" here means "for an age" are you SERIOUS??? THat really strange statement is like saying death is temporary, some only dies for "A while" death PERMANENT. When a person dies they DIE. Hell is ETERNA. when someone goes to hell, they STAY there. Jesus SAID SO.
THE BIBLE IS THE MARK OF THE BEAST! The image of God= Jesus Christ the son of the living God. The Image of the beast= 66 books from the 6th in scotland, dead letter, history,BIBLE.
at the end of the day...we dont know if someone at the last second of their life repented and accepted Jesus..so i cannot say for sure that someone will DEFINITELY go to hell..for people to say this so flippantly shows a lack of love and in that I agree with Rob Bell..nevertheless..there is a hell Rob
1:54 - 2:32 I think that clearly shows that Rob Bell doesn't understand an important part of God's nature, his justice and wrath against evil. Men have to be saved from the wrath of God, and the way God provided IS good news. We're saved from his holy wrath. Rob Bell, for this reason, shouldn't be a pastor. His Bible says that God is just and that we are saved from his wrath, so why doesn't Rob Bell teach that?
samtorrance5590 2 weeks ago
Guys...does anyone see that what Bell is saying is that with or WITHOUT God we still get to Heaven? Does anyone see that his message is that Christ is actually not the only way to the Father? "And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them." Eph. 5:11
flotopo 1 month ago in playlist More videos from 98nafets
LOVE WINS YEAH!!!... SO IS JUSTICE!!! but love and justice are the dilemma that GOD solved in the person of Jesus Christ. But in the after life, the Bible says there is no more chance to decide, because is in Earth that every one choose or reject Jesus.
Davichoo 1 month ago in playlist Autres vidéos de 98nafets
Epic Rebuking!
emurdoch100 1 month ago
Rob Bell is a master at twisting the bible, like many of the Pharisees did. According to rob why should i believe? If I'm going to be saved then why should I take the narrow path and go though the hardships of that path? Too many people these day do not read the bible they read what others have wrote or spoken believing every word. The bible is where you find the correct answers. Not according to a man.
rtb2493 1 month ago 2
@rtb2493
you said it right.
why do you believe ?
krisanist 1 month ago
@krisanist
Are you agreeing with me? Im not sure what ur asking. Why do I believe in God or the bible?
rtb2493 1 month ago
Rob bell is not understanding the Bible. The Bible clearly says that people will go to hell. Rob Bell is saying that EVERYONE goes to heaven!! NO NO NO people who don't believe in Jesus will go to the lake of fire. As said in revelation. Jesus is THE Way, THE Truth, and THE Light!!! Works don't get you to heaven, only by Jesus can you go to The Father.
MegaJumbo101 2 months ago 2
Aha, so you didn't read his book where Rob Bell explains the misconceptions about hell. You are just criticising the video which is pretty much a trailer for the book.
MerleElendil 2 months ago
@BeauG92 (There is so much exegesis and historical evidence out there to support the doctrine of atonement, so why ignore it?)
Yet there remains one sin that Jesus didn't die for. That one sin remains rejecting Him, & because He is the "Word" become flesh, that includes rejection of His word. Note that when mankind was removed from the garden, there remained only one way back in. There's still only one way. The tribe of Dan thought that they could get away without going to the temple too.
AllForYeshua 2 months ago
all religions are manmade bullshit
armanduk2010 3 months ago
read Tim Challies review of this book, Love Wins. Bell is a wolf in sheeps clothing
kaimyjane 3 months ago
So then please oh please. Someone explain to me why the Son of God had to be slaughtered on a cross for me, if i don't need to accept Him to go to heaven(thats exactly what bell is saying, there's no way around it because ghandi died being a hindu and never accepted Christ and bell thinks he's in heaven). There would be no reason to choose a life in Jesus if there is no punishment of hell. This would mean i can just go live how i please if there is no eternal punishment.
mcstouffer 3 months ago
Good job on video!
winch7979 3 months ago
I see 2 groups of people. Ones that have an opinion based on doing and understanding the Word, and those who are spouting their own opinion of how Jesus and God should be. Gee I wonder who is right? Thankfully the book of 1 John ch. 2 says that between the Word and the Holy Spirit we can identify false teaching.
stauvin 5 months ago
Given time more people will discover that many of our medieval interpretations didn't reflect what the original biblical text meant. Rob just found that earlier and remains courageous. And not alone.
agente180 6 months ago
why?,why? & why again? do u remember your sin?. God doesnt remember your sin. he has forgotten it on purpose so that he may relate himself, a sinless, holy being, to each of us who accepts him .
sin is in our past!!,a christian is in christ and christ in them! true? if so that means we are apart from sin.
sin is NOT being bad!! .SIN IS ABSENCE FROM GOD
therefore if God is in our hearts minds and souls he is in relation with a NOW purchased pure being possible because of christ self punishment
vermeer991 7 months ago
This is a bunch of Calvinistic Hocus Pocus....Either you believe that Jesus LIVED- Died for your sins/Cross and Rose the third day according to scripture...OR you don't. THE Bible is not a book written to those who do not believe(unbeliever do read it)...It's a Book to show us what happen& how to be reconcile and to Live for the GLORY of GOD....FORCE Love is Rape....GOD is a gentleman HE will not force HIS will on anyone....I beg you to believe and be reconcile to God.
MR1EAR 7 months ago
Wow, who made this video? Darth Vader?
MichaelSethKendall 7 months ago
In Bells book he redefines the meaning of both Heaven and Hell by twisting the word of God and taking scriptures out of context. By redefining Hell, Bell makes Jesus responsible for the suffering and abuse that children receive. You can read how he does it at Hells Bell Dot Bell
PreachingJesus 7 months ago
Notice how many scriptures Bell takes out of context? Here's a few: he says 1 Cor 3:15 applies to non-believers, he believes non-believers have "talents" from God - the scriptures says God gives talents to his "servants", implies God won't destroy the wicked because Abraham said "will not the judge of all the earth do right"? - that verse is talking about the righteous, not the wicked. Says Heaven & Hell are in the prodigal son story, which their not. Read it at Hells Bell Dot Net
PreachingJesus 7 months ago
Bell's problem is that he doesn't care what the word of God says. It's easy to see. Almost every verse he uses in his book is taken out of context and made to say something God never intended the verse to say. If you'd like to read a review that shows Bells errors and the deception behind his work, visit... Hells Bell Dot..... Net
PreachingJesus 7 months ago
@PreachingJesus I think it's rather judgmental of you to assume that Bell doesn't care what the word of God says. It's ridiculous you could be so ignorant to discount all the life energy he pours into his work. You honestly think he just has some evil plan to deceive people?! I can tell you haven't read into the other side of the issue much, it's dangerous to assume your way of looking at things is always right. I used to be you at one point, life really opens up when you open up to being wrong.
LIGHTRONIX 7 months ago
@LIGHTRONIX
A lot of false teaches pour their life into their work. Just look at the Jehovah's Witnesses. How can Bell care about God's word when the takes passages out of CONTEXT over and over and over again. (I show this on the site). Someone with only a basic reading ability and a basic understanding of the bible could see that Bell pulls scripture out of CONTEXT to make them say something God never intended.
PreachingJesus 7 months ago
@PreachingJesus To read scripture literally is taking it out of context. You must read the bible LITERARILY which allows for a deeper understanding of the text. It's like if you read the book Catcher in the Rye. When Holden's talking about the ducks in the pond in the winter, he's not talking about ducks, he's talking about himself. When Jesus talks about Gehenna, he doesn't mean you will literally go into an eternal fire, he's using it to describe the very real, present result of sin.
LIGHTRONIX 7 months ago
@LIGHTRONIX
So when Paul says that no fornicator will inherit God's kingdom (1 Cor 6:9) , we shouldn't believe what he said? How should we spiritualize that passage so we get the "deeper understanding of the text"? Please tell me.
PreachingJesus 7 months ago
@LIGHTRONIX
Hell is not "present result of sin". Hell is where sinners are cast into...the bible is clear. I cover Bell's false teaching on this on my site under the title "Hell - New and Improved". If you can show me where I'm wrong I'll listen..but you have to use the scripture, not just your own words and ideas. In Bell's book, with his definition of Hell, he makes Jesus responsible for the suffering of abused and tortured children. Hells Bell Dot Net
PreachingJesus 7 months ago
@LIGHTRONIX
If Bell's biblical scholarship is the standard that people will accept from those who call themselves elders and teachers in the body of Christ...then it's no wonder Christianity is in the condition that it's in today.
PreachingJesus 7 months ago
@PreachingJesus The reason Christian Faith is not moving rapidly in the U.S. is because until recently all we were hearing was the same old phariseeism from the religious right. Now, with leaders like Bell and McLaren, we are getting back to the kind of Kingdom Jesus called us to.
landsdown44 7 months ago
I had no idea that Stephen Hawking quoted scripture! Thumbs up if you agree....
jaggatorpm 7 months ago
i thank you sir. if you are the one who put this video together, you have done the gospel well, and brought it together truthfully. for so long i was deceived in the one prayer salvation message, but God has shown me that the only thing that leads me to is destruction. Hallelujah for Jesus' sacrifice! Hallelujah for His Grace! not only is He spotless and holy, but merciful and graceful! Hallelujah for Him switching me places, justifying me! amen
MrPs103 7 months ago
Blah blah blah. This video completely misses the point. Whoever made this video is DUMBBBBBBBb
Vendetta1886 7 months ago
@Vendetta1886 do not judge, as Jesus has said is the right way. with that out of the way, please tell me what point is being missed? do not the pastors tell the truth of the gospels? aren't those passages in the bible, and speak directly against what Mr. Bell said? in a sense, Mr. Bell is correct in saying love wins, in that honey is more attractive than vinegar, and that the love of God convinces to save, but without Jesus' sacrifice, we are still separated from a holy God.
MrPs103 7 months ago
@CartesianTheist
Hey.......its just ML, not MLK : )
ageofgrace 7 months ago
@CartesianTheist
Amen
ageofgrace 8 months ago
@CartesianTheist Now I'll not argue anymore. If you really WANT to believe that he is wrong and you are right, just keep repeating this to yourself and this will became true in your mind.
God is doing His job. Using people as Paul washer, John Piper and Rob Bell. Each one with a different style and a different approach. Because in the end God is far more complex for one man alone understand Him.
durdo00 8 months ago
@CartesianTheist Last thing... You've quoted a part of the vídeo "...... God is going to send you to hell unless you believe in Jesus ....." And believe is not sit and say "I believe. Is living a life of love, compassion. Is trying to live like Jesus, more for the other, less for yourself. ".....But what kind of God is that that we would need rescued from this God?...." Is a righteousness God. BUT is the SAME God that sends His own son to PAY THE COST OF SIN that is DEATH.
durdo00 8 months ago
@CartesianTheist Son, read the book. I'll not argue with someone who talk based in semi-facts. You CLEARLY don't know the content of the book. You are only walking in circles around what you think is in the book (and you really believe that you imagination is the truth). He have made a video with a lot of questions, and strange ones, because he wanted to discuss about with and give the answers. Only because someone have a different method to teach does not mean that he is teaching lies.
durdo00 8 months ago
@durdo00
The context of the book is ....Rob Bells concept of love Wins....
Holiness, Righteousness, Truth, Justice all lose.
ageofgrace 8 months ago
@CartesianTheist " You don't need to be Sherlock Holmes to work it out". You don't need to be, only need to read the book and you'll discover. Or you think that your guessing is more real than the truth? Only because you believe the book is a lie then it MUST be a lie.
If you really saw the video and read the commentaries and didn't see the aggression against Bell you must be so used with aggression that you even not realize it.
About your questions. Stop being lazy. Pharisee, read the book.
durdo00 8 months ago
@CartesianTheist Clearly the video only makes the questions, this is because logically the answers are in the book. So, why criticize the video? What kind of Christianity is this that simply goes with anger and aggression?
About Jesus, Bell's says that he died as a payment. A payment for us. To save us from the destiny that we deserve, condemnation. To anyone and everyone who believe in him. BUT, he discuss the whole book about this "believing", that must be LIVED. For more information READ IT
durdo00 8 months ago
@CartesianTheist So is it ok people criticize the Bible only because in their IGNORANT point of view is "suggesting" bad things?
I can make a promo video of the bible only with 1 king 11:3 (bigamy), Genesis 19:30-38 (incest), Judges 11:30-40 (child sacrifice) and leviticus 18:22 (homosexuality). So, you have to agree with me that PARTS OF A BOOK WITHOUT THE CONTEXT OF THE SAME BOOK are only random statements in the air. Read the book pharisees.
durdo00 8 months ago
It's so easy to make a video response to other video. But I doubt you've read the book. The answers you are giving are the same as he. There are people that condemn the bible without reading with and you are doing the same thing but with Rob Bell's book. You are showing yourself as ignorant as the anti-christian people.
durdo00 8 months ago
@durdo00
Yes I have read the book.
Perhaps the defining point in the book is when Rob Bell quotes Martin Luther as proposing that God would be unkind and evil to sentence people to an eternity of hell.
Then for some reason Rob Bell ends the quote at exactly the spot where Martin Luther addresses the heresy of Universalism and the contradictory nature of it in light of the whole of scripture.
This quote/misquote in Love Wins defines the dishonesty of Rob Bells "new" gospel.
ageofgrace 8 months ago
@ageofgrace If you really read the book you either didn't understand it or you are intentionally distorting its message. First, you quote nothing to make your point. Go out of your way next time and do that. Second, Bell makes it clear that he is not a universalist. Basically what your post reveals is not Bell's dishonesty but yours.
landsdown44 7 months ago
@landsdown44
Firstly,....the quotes from Martin Luther are right there in the post. and the missing quote that Bell left out is the next post.
Secondly, I would like to see the quote of Bell saying he is not a universalist.
Rob Bell is clear on his ideas....
You will never hear him preach...
There is only one name given whereby men must be saved, or , enter in at the narrow gate,the gate to destruction is wide, or You must be born again.
Bell focuses on ambiguity
ageofgrace 7 months ago
@ageofgrace Bell clearly shows that he is not a universalist on p. 114 of his book. BTW it is telling that you still won't provide a quote for your claim. Hmmm. Warning of hell is no way to preach. Instead, Bell invites people to be disciples of Jesus. I'm grateful there are preachers like Bell out there who make the gospel clear instead of filling it with fear. That's the Gospel of the New Testament
landsdown44 7 months ago
On page 108 of his book (to be precise, an advance reader copy), Bell makes the following statement:
And then there are others who can live with two destinations, two realities after death, but insist that there must be some kind of "second chance" for those who don't believe in Jesus in this lifetime. In a letter Martin Luther, wrote to Hans von Rechenberg in 1522 he considered the possibility that people could turn to God after death, asking: "Who would doubt God's ability to do that?"
ageofgrace 7 months ago
Bell then, handily and conveniently leaves out the next sentence where Martin Luther says "No one, however, can prove that he does do this. For all that we read is that he has already raised people from the dead and thus granted them faith. But whether he gives faith or not, it is impossible for anyone to be saved without faith. Otherwise every sermon, the gospel, and faith would be vain, false, and deceptive, since the entire gospel makes faith necessary."
ageofgrace 7 months ago
Comment removed
landsdown44 7 months ago
@ageofgrace Of course there is another book that claims a person can come to God after death and that is the Bible. I Peter 3:18-4:6 clearly makes such a claim. Jesus preached to spirits in prison (hell) who had that destination after rejecting Noah's preaching. To think Jesus would do that just once and never again would be against the justice and grace he proclaimed. And there's another major Christian leader who held such a view, C.S. Lewis. You calling him a heretic too?
landsdown44 7 months ago
@landsdown44
Not a good passage to cite. What did Jesus preach? What was the decision of the those who were preached to? To preach to someone doesn't mean you change their destiny. Nor does it mean their destiny can be changed. Did Peter witness this?
This passage has nothing to do with salvation after death. It has to do with the consistency of Gods salvation throughout time.
ageofgrace 7 months ago
@ageofgrace So, you're saying you don't accept part of the Bible. Wow!
landsdown44 7 months ago
@landsdown44
No...I am saying I dont adhere to your loose, out of context universalist interpretation that mocks scripture and props up Bell.
It is Bell that says "we cant know what the bible REALLY says" not me.
ageofgrace 7 months ago
@landsdown44
Explain to me how Peter witnessed the preaching to the captive spirits from the days of Noah as you say he did in your interpretation.
ageofgrace 7 months ago
@ageofgrace Jesus preaching to spirits in prison is pretty deep spiritual stuff. Here's the thing. You see Peter had this relationship with Jesus. He was a disciple. If anyone would have been told that, he would.
landsdown44 7 months ago
Very sloppy interpretation.....are you an actual student of Bells?
No where in the bible.......NOWHERE .............are humans before or after death referred to as sprits....only demons. There is only one interpretation of spirits here. Jesus preached (or proclaimed to the DEMONS in prison). Any other interpretation is suspect, as are all of Bells notions that he employs to be "radical and hip" at the cost of scripture and souls.
Do yourself a favour and flush Love Wins down the toilet
ageofgrace 7 months ago
@ageofgrace You are so wrong. Right there in I Peter is says that very thing, "spirits". If you even bother to actually read the text, there is no way you could come to the conclusion that those spirits are demons. Jesus would have no reason to preach to demons anyway. If anything is worse than silly, that's it. Demons had already defected long ago.
I am not a student of Bell, have never met him. I am perplexed at the ridiculous comments attempting to take apart his good theology.
landsdown44 7 months ago
@landsdown44
Yes it is silly....but based on pretext error on your part.
Preaching or proclaiming to demons is EXACTLY what Christ would after his victory on the cross. The idea that it is "good news" is your idea...not the bibles. Maybe to you or I it is good news...not to demons.
Yes Peter says "spirits". It is the word used to describe demons EVERYTIME in the NT and OT. No exceptions. To say that "spirits" mean soul or spirit or the condition of a person that has died is incorrect.
ageofgrace 7 months ago
@landsdown44
The problem is not reading the text. The problem is not knowing what the text means. If you go to the scripture for the meaning,....you will see the meaning is demon. If you go to Rob Bell, you will get what Rob Bell want it to mean.
Also Rob Bell makes no apologies about it. His big epiphany was when he discovered the bible is an esoteric book that means whatever you want it to mean.
Bell despises doctrine...whether its hell or having faith in yourself, Bell is a dangerous man
ageofgrace 7 months ago
@ageofgrace If you bother to simply consider the external and internal evidence, via good exegesis, the meaning is obviously "spirit". That is what virtually all theologians accept. I'm going to be blunt, your accusation against Bell that he has the Bible mean what ever he wants it to mean, is pure BS, and nothing short of that. You, however, seem to be guilty of that very crime.
landsdown44 7 months ago
Ok....1. that is NOT what most theolgians accept and 2. show me ONE reference to spirits are referred to as human spirits and not demons.
Lets actually consider the external and internal evidence.
Where does the the bible refer to spirits as NOT being demons.
I say Bell chooses to let the bible mean whatever he wants it to mean.....BECAUSE THATS WHAT HE SAYS IT MEANS.
ageofgrace 7 months ago
@ageofgrace 1. That is precisely what most theologians accept. 2. There is no need for another reference to show that spirits refer to human spirits. I already referenced the internal and external evidence, niether of which support you. Again, your conclusion is BS. 3. Whether Bell's conclusion about Peter on the water is accurate, hardly makes that a "great distortion". However, again your interpretation IS the distortion.
You should change your username to "rigid-law". You missed grace.
landsdown44 7 months ago
The reason you say there no need for a reference is because there isnt one.
You did not reference any internal or external evidence. You just said you did.
Only a Bellian would say that faith in man trumps faith in God is NOT a great distortion.
Grace? ...Grace as opposed to what?
Mercy? ...Mercy from what?
Saved? ....Saved from what?
In Bells world we are saved from nothing more than Gods impotent justice and ambiguous truth. Grace without truth is a farce. Love without justice is a sham.
ageofgrace 7 months ago
@ageofgrace You are putting words in Bells mouth. You demean the name by which you are called. No where did Bell say faith in man trumps faith in God. Your post is a disgrace. BTW, the external evidence is that the Greek word in I Ptr. clearly says "spirit". The Internal evidence is the context which refers to those PEOPLE, NOT DEMONS who rejected God. For the last time. Your distorted view of Christian Faith makes no case.
BTW, I've read all of Bell's books. I've seen most of the noomas.
landsdown44 7 months ago 15
@landsdown44,
Was there anything in this video that made you come to the conclusion that what Bell has essentially said is the same truth spoken by Jesus in John 14:6 “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me"? Did you get that impression at all...? I didn't. On the contrary, those question in the beginning only leave room for "...maybe Jesus isn't the only way.....?!"
flotopo 1 month ago in playlist More videos from 98nafets
@flotopo There is absolutely nothing in this video that contradicts John 14:6.
landsdown44 1 month ago
@landsdown44, are you sure? this is what he says "...how do u become one of the few? is it what u believe, or what you say, or what you do, or WHO you know, or something that happens in your heart, or you need to be initiated, or baptized, or take a class, or converted, or or be born again? how does one become one of THESE few?" Also look at "Gandi's in hell? He is? And someone knows this for sure?" Question: Did Gandi hear @ did he know about Jesus? Did he accept Him or did he reject Him? Think
flotopo 1 month ago
@flotopo The Bible is not as "cut and dried" as you seem to suppose. Paul says believe. Jesus says that many who call him Lord will be refused because they neglected the poor. And do you really believe that people who responded in the best way they knew to the God of their understanding will be rejected just because they were born on the wrong continent, never hearing the truth? Perhaps you are defending a Christian fundamentalist God, not the God of the Scriptures.
landsdown44 1 month ago
@landsdown44,
I do believe the Bible means what it says in John 14:6 when Jesus says that no one comes to the Father except through Me". That statement is either true or not. That's a matter of your choice. So the Bible IS very "cut and dried", even though you may not like it. As for the example of the person born on the wrong continent, never hearing the truth, God makes Himself known in creation Rom. 1:19-20, He reveals Himself in our conscience Rom. 2:14-15.We’re all accountable Luke 12:47-48
flotopo 1 month ago
@flotopo Nothing I have stated and nothing Bell has written flies in the fact of John 14:6. The Bible is not as cut and dried as you would like it as I have already pointed out. Unfortunately, the clouds of creation don't spell out "get saved by me or else" and virtually no one who has never heard the Gospel would figure out that the God of creation is somehow connected to the Hebew deity you and I worship. Your statement doesn't hold water.
landsdown44 1 month ago
@landsdown44, You may label my statement as you see fit, that is your right, my BUT the Bible verses I presented are the ones that support everything I have said. Have you checked them out to see what they actually do say? I am not saying that if someone dies without having heard about Jesus and His gospel, they'll go to hell. The Word of God is inscribed in all men's hearts so they do have a moral point of reference to live and be judged by. That Word is Jesus...so in the end, He's the only way
flotopo 1 month ago
@flotopo You appear to have edged somewhat closer to the position I hold, depending on what you mean by "the word of God inscribed on everyone's hearts". However, it seems that there are many who never really had a shot. Maybe that's why I Peter 3:19-4:6 claims Jesus preaches, not only to those who never heard, but even to those who had once rejected Jesus' Kingdom.,
landsdown44 1 month ago
@landsdown44That appears to be the case with I Peter 3:19-4:6, meaning those that never had a chance got theirs at that time, when Jesus as resurrected, but my point is this: if someone never heard the Gospel & they died but they were true to the Word that God has put in all men's hearts, then I am sure they'll go to Heaven, BUT if at one point in their life they heard the Gospel and rejected it due to different reasons, even if they had been true to the Word up until then, they have no chance.
flotopo 1 month ago
@flotopo Our views seem to be very close. One thing though, the I Peter text says that there are those who rejected God in this life, still had the gospel preached to them after their physical death. It would be extremely unfair to make that a one time deal, like a special car sale one day only. It seems clear that God doesn't stop pursuing folks until sometime after one's physical death. Only God knows when it becomes like "hurling pearls before swine".
landsdown44 4 weeks ago
@landsdown44,
We seem to have close views, however, do notice there are views regarding I Peter that say those are angelic spirits, & that's an entire different discussion, while other views, and I believe this one, say that those are the people who died before the crucifixion of Jesus, so that would be a one time event & God would be fair as we know He is just in all He does. Also, the Bible says it is appointed to men once to die, but after this the judgment comes.So the only chance is in life
flotopo 4 weeks ago
@flotopo I think Peter is telling us more about God's perserverence. Most authorities agree that Peter's issue is suffering of the early church. So Peter deals with the problem of evil and the problem of the unreached. I think he deals with both by proclaiming God's perservering love reaches even beyond the doors of death. Considering that those who heard the Gospel after their death had earlier rejected God, it seems persuasive to me. Anyway. I appreciate your respectful conversation.
landsdown44 4 weeks ago
@landsdown44,
I appreciate your attitude in our conversation. I believe in the end what's important is that we win people for Christ. I'd say this should be the focus of every Christian and every church. In the end, all the uncertainties, all the doctrines, all the things left hanging in the air will be one day uncovered and we'll understand them. Until then our focus should be to tell people about their need for Salvation. Wish you all the best and be blessed.
flotopo 4 weeks ago
@flotopo Thanks for the good conversation. I agree with everything in your last post. Blessings.
landsdown44 4 weeks ago
@landsdown44 wow and still the eastern orthodox goes on in peace and harmony, people all this was worked out centuries ago...but the orthodox patristics
Jesusisthetreeoflife 3 weeks ago
@landsdown44
Rob Bells gospel is a MAN centered gospel, where God tailors his love to suit man.
Love Wins is an appeal to the sinful nature of man, tickling the ears of those who reject sound doctrine and would rather hear words that sound good, but the end thereof is death.
As Paul put it.."even if an angel comes to you preaching another gospel, let him be accursed".
Let Rob Bell have his day in the sun. If He knew what grace was,....he wouldn't be so cavalier about truth.
ageofgrace 7 months ago
A bell quote from Velvet Elvis
"This is part of the problem with continually insisting that one of the absolutes of the Christian faith must be a belief that “Scripture alone” is our guide. It sounds nice, but it is not true. In reaction to abuses by the church, a group of believers during a time called the Reformation claimed that we only need the authority of the Bible."
ageofgrace 7 months ago
@landsdown44
Quote from Nooma
"everything in creation is essentially unfinished, God leaves the world unfinished, and invites people to take part in the ongoing creation of the world."
ageofgrace 7 months ago
@ageofgrace I want to say something too...
WHAT!!!!?!?!?
DonPetruccci 7 months ago
In conclusion I would like to use a phrase that Rob bell and Satan use frequently......
"Did God Really say?..........."
ageofgrace 7 months ago
Take for example Rob Bells idea in the Nooma video Dust.
In this video Bell says that Peter sunk in the water, NOT because he lacked faith in Jesus...but because he lacked faith in himself. Bell says that God has faith in us.???????
There is no greater distortion of faith than this.
ageofgrace 7 months ago
I guarantee you....10 years from now Bell is going to run out of hip and cool distortions of scripture and eventually will be exposed for what he is. He will shock you when he goes too far and contradicts even something that YOU know is heresy. Then you will look back on all of this and the lightbulb will go off.
-Or-
He may repent.
I would pray for the later
ageofgrace 7 months ago
@landsdown44
In fact, within the book of 1 Peter itself, Peter already had made reference to the fact that the Spirit “testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow” (1 Peter 1:11). But it was the prophets who did the actual speaking (vs. 10). Then, again in chapter 4, Peter stated that “the gospel was preached also to those who are dead” (1 Peter 4:6).
ageofgrace 7 months ago
@landsdown44
Second, when did Jesus do this preaching through the Holy Spirit? Notice in verse 20, the words “formerly” (NKJV) and “when”—“when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah.” So the preaching was done in the days of Noah by Jesus through the Holy Spirit Who, in turn, inspired Noah’s preaching (2 Peter 2:5).
ageofgrace 7 months ago
Comment removed
landsdown44 7 months ago
@landsdown44
Wrong you have misinterpreted , "prison", "spirits" and "preach". All 3 are laid out in scripture, however you have given all 3 new meanings to suit your Bellogian ideas.
Properly exegeted....
Spirits= demons
prison= safe keeping until thrown in the lake of fire
proclaiming= badnews for the demons.
There is nothing here about second-hand salvation after death.....
Unless you "FEEL" it does.
ageofgrace 7 months ago
@landsdown44
C.S,. Lewis like Bell is NOT a theologian and did not have a refined opinion on the subject of universalism. He was however a firm believer in hell. To say he was a universalist is to take a few of his quotes out of context and then IGNORE the rest of his whole life.
ageofgrace 7 months ago
@ageofgrace C.S. Lewis was a professor of Literature. However, that wouldn't excuse him from being a heritic, now would it. Bell and Lewis hold the same belief. Also, you are confusing two theological points: believing in the possiblity of conversion after death is NOT the same as being a universalist. And, finally, YES, Bell IS a theologian. Anyone with a Masters Degree in theology is a theologian.
landsdown44 7 months ago
@landsdown44
You are correct , there is a difference. However, both are outside the pale of orthodoxy. Lewis may have pondered conversion after death briefly,....Bell promotes it. Bell is NO theologian. anything he may have learned was thrown out the window long ago in favour of social justice styled Christianity. I may remind you that Bart Erhman who thinks Jesus was a fraud and the bible is completely a hoax is also a theologian, and is far more skilled than Bell could ever hope to be
ageofgrace 7 months ago
1/2
Here is Rob Bells quote of Martin Luther
“It would be quite a different question whether God can impart faith to some in the hour of death or after death so that these people could be saved through faith. Who would doubt God's ability to do that?
Now read the rest of the quote that Rob Bell purposely left out.
ageofgrace 8 months ago
2/2
No one, however, can prove that he does do this. For all that we read is that he has already raised people from the dead and thus granted them faith. But whether he gives faith or not, it is impossible for anyone to be saved without faith. Otherwise every sermon, the gospel, and faith would be vain, false, and deceptive, since the entire gospel makes faith necessary.
ageofgrace 8 months ago
I love hearing the Word of God so beautiful! :)
LogosTheos 8 months ago
No man knows all the truth all the time. are we called to judge?
srowley57 8 months ago
Rob Bell says that he believes that those who did not receive Jesus while on this earth, will eventually be compelled, by the love of God, to submit to Him. After a lifetime of rejecting him? Even if it were true, the reason would be, to escape hell, not because they wanted God.
88momart 8 months ago
Even Satan preaches part truth
RONWIEBE 9 months ago
Rob Bell is a vile false teacher
FuroraCeltica 9 months ago
Comment removed
stoob1969 9 months ago
duuude, i recognize that voice. esv audiobook...yes.
nantapatt 9 months ago
Good video! MacArthur also has a good blog series on Bell at GTY .org
matt3i6 10 months ago
Driscoll and Piper? Come on. Even a first-year seminarian knows Calvinists aren't the only Christians for whom the GoodNews exists. Jesus comes to save all humankind. Free will as articulated by Paul as the greek word synergy. THISis the GoodNews. We all get to choose our salvation and live it out in fear and trembling; in our embrace of Jesus Christ, love wins. It's really that simple-down at bedrock.
GUILDWORKSnewmedia 10 months ago
Rob Bell either does NOT KNOW the Bible, or deliberately LIES!
rickgigliotti 10 months ago 2
@rickgigliotti ::: Bart Ehrman knows the bible. Carlton Pearson knows the bible. They know it is the word of man, not the word of God. There is a higher spiritual understanding than can be found in the bible.
k0smon 9 months ago
@rickgigliotti Straight forward and to the point! you must of listened to John Piper? haha thats awesome, good post.
seanclrk0 8 months ago
@rickgigliotti Straight forward and to the point! you must of listened to John Piper? haha thats awesome, good post.
seanclrk0 8 months ago
@rickgigliotti Have you read the book?
durdo00 8 months ago
@rickgigliotti He is why Paul says few should be teachers, because they carry so much responsibility for their message. I really hope he repents of this evil doctrine before he dies, or he'll learn firsthand how wrong he was.
jahchild1904 7 months ago
@rickgigliotti Rob Bell clearly knows the Bible and has done a good job being consistent with the Bible in his book. You, however, not so much.
landsdown44 7 months ago 24
This is great... Thanks for posting this.... I'm currently working through Rob's book now and find myself very, very, lost, and I've just started reading it..
krockcfd31 10 months ago
YESSSSSSSSSS!
sktpetropolis 10 months ago
HATED the 1st part....LOVED the 2nd part :D
randompotatoesquad 10 months ago
Either Rob Bell is a very, very confused pastor with a erroneous understanding of the bible OR he is a false prophet, a wolve in sheepskin preaching heresy to deceive and confuse the flock of believers. With his false doctrine, he will eventually cause whoever is spiritually foolish, to lose their salvation.
opsvideo2008 10 months ago
the best gospel verse of all time? 2 cor 5:21? its good, for sure.. but what about this one? Jesus says:
“The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because he has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor.
He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind,
to set the oppressed free, to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.”
jonathanve09 10 months ago
I TlMOTHY 4:10: "WE TRUST IN THE LIVING GOD, WHO IS THE SAVIOUR OF ALL MEN, SPECIALLY OF THOSE THAT BELIEVE."
jimmietfreeway 10 months ago
2:01 You aren't sent to hell by God, you are sent to hell, by your SINS..and Jesus and God are one, so how could God hate you, and Jesus love you to the extent that he would die and rise again to defy "God's" will for you, which, Rob Bell apparently thinks, is for everyone to go to hell. The Bible doesn't teach that God hates us and wants us to burn in hell, it teaches us that he hates SIN. So, if you get that straight, there will be no need to make a new doctrine in order to know God as loving.
jessface777 10 months ago
Totally agree with the verses in response, but the voice they are read in is super creepy!
jessface777 10 months ago
i didn't watch all this but you clearly did not read the book because the first passage makes much more sense in the context of living out the word in this word rather than the next.I am not saying that you are wrong about the Bible but you can't assume that you are any more than the rest of the world.The Bible has been globally misread by "orthodox" christians for 1000's of years.The Bible is a debate.Jesus would agree, he debated with the pharisees who were very devout and theological.
connorthoughts 10 months ago
@connorthoughts Jesus didn't debate with the Pharisees who were "very devout and theological", He condemned the Pharisees who were religious and unloving. The outside of the 'cup' was clean while the inside was dirty as Jesus explains it. That's why they tried to discredit Jesus when he ate and sat with sinners and tax payers, because to them holiness was an exterior show.
Consider John 3:1-21, Nicodemus, a Pharisee, admits that they knew Jesus was from God yet the Pharisees still...
JordanRossMackenzie 10 months ago
@JordanRossMackenzie Lol tax collectors not tax payers.
JordanRossMackenzie 10 months ago
@connorthoughts ....condemned Jesus saying that He cast out demons by the power of Beezlebub. (Matthew 12:24)
As far as I know, Nicodemus was the only Pharisee who accepted Christ, they others believed and rejected Him. And as far as them being "theological", Jesus says to Nicodemus "Are you the teacher of Israel, and do not know these things?" in regards to needing to be "born again". A Pharisee, who should have been an expert in the OT laws and prophets, struggled understanding his Messiah.
JordanRossMackenzie 10 months ago
@JordanRossMackenzie Ya I don't think you are necessarily disagreeing with me. I am not even sure what we are talking about now lol because this was like a week ago lol. THe last part I summarized because I ran out of characters but like you said, Jesus challenged their ways. Sometimes I wonder how Jesus could be so harsh to them but I realize it was out of love for them and to be clear in his message to the rest of the world. Overall, my point was, we get afraid to challenge current...
connorthoughts 10 months ago
@connorthoughts Lol yeah fair enough. Yeah I wasn't trying to challenge what you were saying was just specifically talking about the Pharisees. Probably came across as arrogant, that's why I try to avoid writing too much in these communication mediums where I struggling conveying tone - ie, I often sound like a prick.
I just don't think that the Pharisees were genuine believers. They were 'spiritual' because of its political and monetary implications - and the social status.
JordanRossMackenzie 10 months ago
@JordanRossMackenzie Haha. No I think you should keep speaking on here. You didnt sound like a prick and I think, as long as you are polite and argue your point in a logical loving manner, it is imperitive you do debate things. I read the book "how to win friends and influence people" and for a long time I was turned off of arguing because it seemed more destructive than helpful. But now I realize it is important to do it otherwise only the people who are okay arguing in a destructive manner..
connorthoughts 10 months ago
@JordanRossMackenzie end up being the ones who paint societies perspective of the christian faith. So it is actually more loving at a societal level to debate things even if it does offend people (as long as you are trying not to offend them). AndIwould totally agree with you about the pharisees doing it for political and monetary reasons but I must point out too that they can bevery comparable to modern academics or theologians in that sense. Just saying we need to exam scripture for ourselves.
connorthoughts 10 months ago
@connorthoughts Yeah nah I agree, that's a good point. Makes me wonder if Christ returned tomorrow that there wouldb be churches today that are almost identical to the Pharisees of Christ's day. But we won't get into that lol.
You should watch some of Mark Driscoll's videos. He's a great preacher. There is one video called 'You are in danger (extended version) that is really good. God Bless.
JordanRossMackenzie 10 months ago
@JordanRossMackenzie ...views of the world because we assume since everyone believes something, it must be from God. I am a psych major and a theory in relation to this would be called "group polarization" if I recall correctly. People's views become more extreme in a group so that there viewpoint has strength. But ya, history demonstrates the failure of humanity to truly hear God. It is not God's ability to communicate but our ability to listen that fails. I like to consider faith from a...
connorthoughts 10 months ago
@connorthoughts I think if we read all the passages on the pharisees and study them carefully we see people who knew Christ was the Messiah, and that famous verse where Christ claims to be the Son of God, and takes the title I AM (a direct indication and self proclamation of His Godliness) they wanted to stone Him to death. Not because they didn't believe He was what He claimed, Nicodemus and other verses show us they believed that, but because He threatened their way of life and corrupt nature.
JordanRossMackenzie 10 months ago
@connorthoughts Also. People will forever have disputes over God, Christ, the gospel, etc. And Im specifically referring to Christians. But I think that always out understanding and conclusion of 'truth', absolute and complete truth, should come fro the Bible. Cor 1:20-21 Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him...
JordanRossMackenzie 10 months ago
@connorthoughts ...God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe."
2 Timothy 3:16 "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness"
JordanRossMackenzie 10 months ago
@JordanRossMackenzie ...scientific standpoint in the sense of using proven logical methods to determine the true meaning of the Bible and the presence of God. That is a whole other topic but I am just saying, Rob Bell's perspective is controversial but makes more sense to me intellectually and it unifies Jesus's method and my world view much better than the current paradigm where I consistently am fighting terrible inconsistencies and problems with it. That is what I am saying I think lol
connorthoughts 10 months ago
Is this guy serious? Jesus does not rescue you from God, Mr. Bell, he restores your relationship with your Creator. He paid for your sin, which you are unable to do on your own. I don't need to say anything about what I think about Rob Bell, Galatians 1 says all that I think. This guy is a heretic, period.
Guitarplyr76 10 months ago
@Guitarplyr76 you completely misunderstood his point. He wasn't saying those are the facts, but that is how it is portrayed in most people's minds. God sends people to hell, and, no matter how you wanna say it, "sin sends you to hell" or whatever, it is GOD that chooses, in his so called infinite love, wisdom, and power, to give us a limited time and unproportioned opportunity to make that choice.
yokoissatan 10 months ago
Scripture = Truth. Boom. Lovely Vid.
jungy16 10 months ago
Thank you for pointing out the truth. Just a suggestion on the video though. You should try to match the sound volume levels. Volume normalization. God bless
WhErE72 10 months ago
(cont)
We all have our own path to walk and my hope is that it leads to true freedom and intelligence and growth for all without the need to push a 'Jesus is your golden ticket out of hell' theology on the world' After further investigation of the Bible and the person of Jesus I really don't think that's actually the bottom line of the 'gospel' I wish you all enlightenment on your journey . Peace.
shebrew570 10 months ago
(cont)
say that this is sad and heretical, but the freedom in thinking for myself cancels out the fear of standing alone in my convictions and being labled and shunned. Rob Bell doesn't know everything and neither do fundamentalist and neither do I. I am not angry or frustrated anymore that people choose to judge me based on there own views... It's human nature. and it actually just amuses me now more then threatens me...
shebrew570 10 months ago
The fact of the matter is that this still doesn't silent my questions about the modernly translated bible or satisfy my search for the truth behind and beyond it. After seeing the white knuckled furious response by bible thumping christians from many different denominations about the ideas Rob Bell presents, which are more open minded then dogmatic, I move further and further away from so-called orthodox christianity and feel more and more relief and freedom in agnostisim. Many would say that
shebrew570 10 months ago
Ghandi is in Hell indeed...
splang 10 months ago
@splang He is? and you know this for sure? and felt the need to let the rest of us know?
Thanks man lol.
It's sad, but you speak the truth. Ghandi rejected christianity because of christians he had met and then tried to fit Christ to hinduism. Looking for enlightment through works and wisdom rather than seeking Christ to save him.
RenegadeMaster07 10 months ago
@RenegadeMaster07 Not a problem...you are welcome...
splang 10 months ago
@RenegadeMaster07 you're most welcome.
splang 10 months ago
HOW CAN SOMEONE SO PATHETIC...JUST ASK ??? CREATING DOUBT OF GODS WORD WHICH IS SO EASY TO UNDERSTND...AND SO MANY ARE JUST LOVING HIS STUPID DAMNING MESSAGE....THIS VIDEO IS PERFCT...
HE IS A WOLF IN SHEEPS CLOTHING AND HIS COVER IS SLIPPING OFF BY HIS OWN DOING...WHO DOES HE PRAY TO??? OBVIOUSLY NOT GOD IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST, buddha, allah, HMMMM!!!!
TheTaminski 11 months ago
scripture > Bell's questions
#winning
scmayfield 11 months ago
/watch?v=wfboAzw-XGU&feature=player_embedded
Bell is asking questions to get his book out...he wants people who have these questions to read his book and be answered...think about it...
CaptainSmoothie 11 months ago
People LISTEN you yourselves! "(this is directed to anyone who thinks that hell is "temporary" like rob bell.) Jesus says "ETERNAL punishement (i use caps only for emphasis) WHO can "explain away" that CLEAR statement from the LORD Jesus?? ZWOrds MEAN things. eternal means forever. IT NEVER means temporary! I don't know HOW on earth people can redefine a so CLEAR a word! its like saying "murder" only kills people for a while, murder does not keep people dead. See how ridiculous it is?
willph18 11 months ago
I have been studying the original text in the Bible for years aside from church influence and have come to the same points as Rob Bell before knowing about him. I am a historian and can also see many churches today follow erroneous medieval interpretations rather than the original church orthodoxy. I am ready to stand for truth and so are many. And the truth shall set you free. In love.
agente180 11 months ago
For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 2 Timothy 4:2-4
missing1link1 11 months ago
@missing1link1 Amen
stoob1969 9 months ago
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
And they shall turn away ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
II Timothy IV:III,IV
robertmcmc 11 months ago
who ever is providing the scriptural voice is a whacko.rob bell may be inccorect in hi
sposition that love is the message of the gospel. these other whackos yelling and screaming have no idea either.....the gospel is; THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN IS AT HAND meaning it is perceivable on earth as it is in heaven through evidence and substance of what we hope for but cannot see, a gift of God, His grace by which we are saved
mark driscoll is as blind as a bat speaking of things he knowsbut doesnot
see
franki2424 11 months ago
I agree with the majority of what is in this video and I appreciate you made it.
Probably the only objectionable point is the final section where the speaker suggested "we've never done ANYTHING but sin".
Just semantics, but I'm pretty sure 1% of the stuff we would have done otherwise was at least decent. :P
filmguru 11 months ago
Ya know really its not our place to judge.. Every person that voices their opinions about the word or Jesus Christ takes on a big risk.. I have seen Rob Bell speak many times and I can assure you he is doing no harm.. He's reads the word and inturpets just like every other Pastor I have ever seen.. Watch some of his videos he explains things to us leaving that option of free will just as the bible does.. The difference in my opinion is after listening I no longer want free will!!
Fudicia 11 months ago
@Fudicia I would say a good place to draw the line is when you preach doctrine that explicitly ignores and contradicts the very core of the faith it claims to preach on. That's just... making stuff up and misleading millions of others in the process.
He's not just "interpreting" (an emphasis on which suggests God never actually told us anything objective about anything), he's outright picking and choosing stuff, taking it out of context, and fitting into a custom message that's a lie.
filmguru 11 months ago
@Fudicia Interpreting in different than "redefining" Jesus says "Eternal punishment" ETERNAL means forever! always WILL. I hear people say "eternal" here means "for an age" are you SERIOUS??? THat really strange statement is like saying death is temporary, some only dies for "A while" death PERMANENT. When a person dies they DIE. Hell is ETERNA. when someone goes to hell, they STAY there. Jesus SAID SO.
willph18 11 months ago
THE BIBLE IS THE MARK OF THE BEAST! The image of God= Jesus Christ the son of the living God. The Image of the beast= 66 books from the 6th in scotland, dead letter, history,BIBLE.
MarkofBeastRevealed 11 months ago
Please, please watch the whole video. But 7:56 - 9:07 brought me to my knees. God bless you for that.
cpc5000 11 months ago
at the end of the day...we dont know if someone at the last second of their life repented and accepted Jesus..so i cannot say for sure that someone will DEFINITELY go to hell..for people to say this so flippantly shows a lack of love and in that I agree with Rob Bell..nevertheless..there is a hell Rob
patriciacarrasco 11 months ago