Grow up kid, your imaginary sky wizards don't really exist. Religion has had far too much respect for far too long. Maybe in time the self deception of religion will leave you and you'll come to understand what secular humanists are trying to do. You seen like an intelligent person but sadly the right connections in your brain haven't come together yet.
Your Jack Nicholson analogy is flawed. Snowed in cabin-dwellers are not trying to legislate their craziness, religious fundamentalists are. The reason a good actor can fool people is because the actions they are preforming match the reality that they are portraying. When absurd parody so closely resembles the genuine article it betrays the absurdity of the genuine article, not the other way around.
No, it doesn't demonstrate anything about religion. However, it does show how many shit people had to take from religion and how little sense for irony people have. I mean, I today still find it hard to believe there are creationists in this world.
If Pamela's parody was the worst religious mind I ever saw I would agree you have a valid point.
Yes, EVERYBODY got trolled by this girl and it is part @Thunderf00t fault for not making a little background research, but let's not forget about her inspiration...if you search for videos of the Japan earthquake/tsunami and read the comment section you will most likely find tens, if not hundreds of people that said something similar to what she said. So the argument still stands...religion will make people crazy.
Atheism is the new prejudice, and like past prejudice, most of them are just idiots and the larger they grow to more people will see how stupid they are.
In Matthew there's a story about dead saints comign back to life, crawling out their graves and wandering around downtown Judea. If that doesn't sound like a typical Zombie story I dont know what is.
This guy is a nitpicker and shows the BIG nothing in his videos. He tries to attack anything no matter what. He is a type of guy who disagrees with you just for the heck of it. You are not constructive and playing devils advocate all the time. You are a frustrated chump. Cheers!
Well done. I think all atheists should watch this video: watch?v=GtE62d00Sps
One could easily turn Tf00t's argument around and say to be a real nut case, you have to be an atheist.
My two cents is that Tf00t has seen how famous people like Hitchens has become and he simply wants a piece of the action (read: ca$h). Instead, he as simply turned into an atheist version of Lee Strobel.
@jimmo42 Don't ever compare hitchens to Tf00t again imho. Hitchens is way out of his league. Is way more thought provoking , etc. I'm not the biggest hichens fan, I haven't read all his books. But damn when I hear the guy speaks it isn't shit coming out of his mouth, EVER.
@ForYeensSake My sincerest apologies. It was not my intent. I wasn't actually comparing the two, simply saying Tf00t wants to make name for himself in the anti-theist community (like Hitchens) in order to cash in (or get cash). I agree with you. I think Hitchens can be really abrasive sometimes, but knows what he is talking about.
@jimmo42 No problem. The idea is just frustrating, Tf00t makes really good science video's. But is terrible when it comes to philosophy imho. I mean he could be right and he still wouldn't know why.
Whether J. Torrence is crazy or J. Nicholson acts crazy, the point is that it's crazy, psychotic behavior. Tf00t's point was that a video which depicts a crazy religious nut (as satire) was perceived as not so far-out crazy because we are so used to the loud voice and strong presence of far-out religious nuts in our society. If those zealots are just crazy IYO, why do moderate theists remain so quiet about it? If you theists want respect, say, loudly: Religious zealots are crazy! We do. Join us!
Its time for everyone to start respecting his neighbor ... leave religions behind.. and use one's own intelligence that comes from a deep regard for " all " others ...
Thanks for the video, bro. And YES, the world IS obsessed with crazy people, and guys like Thunderf00t and BionicDance milk that for all it's worth, which is absolutely disgusting imo.
So who are the REAL ones that are crazy? The CERTAIN individuals who claim to be religious, or Thunderf00t and anybody else for only going after the crazies when clearly not all religious people are like that?
"Jack Torrence is fake crazy. Religion is real crazy." - What's the difference? You're ignoring UNFF's point that "what you DIDN'T know if Jack Nicholson was an actor?" You're completing ignoring that part, by assuming that Jack Torrence IS acting. But what if he wasn't? How could you tell?
Try answering that question. Otherwise, I suggest you stop the trolling.
I think we need to consider the important differences between a satirist a poe and a troll. While a satirist requires real talent to exaggerate their subject, they are successful to the extent they make it obvious. A poe just flies under the radar and tries to be convincing for the attention and to combine being a troll, which is just for provocation. Pam was a troll and a poe, but not a good satirist. I prefer to take trolls and poes at face value. Act like an asshole & to me you're an asshole.
this seems to have to be pointed out over and over again, but it wasn't thunderf00t at all who caused the insane harrassment of pammela. i know this, because i was at her video, whicih i knew of before then (i was subbed to her) , many hours before TF made his vid, i got sent there through a link on 4chans "random" board, or /b/, which was presumably also where he got her vid , she was already getting 200 comments per minute, something which TF would never even be able to cause.
Pamela was holding up a satirical mirror to *a kind* of religion. I did some checking and she was subbed and befriended by *some* real YT Christians. Also a lot of her arguments were frighteningly close to those made by actual theists.
I am an atheist who went off Thunderf00t and I have many problems with him, but the opening of this video was needlessly hostile and suggests, IMO, bigotry on your part.
Congrats on the clips from the David Tennant version of Hamlet though, it's brilliant.
I think the point is being unable to tell if the ideas are borne of a crazy mind or by an actor's mind. Consider a second grader successfully passing himself off as a leading researcher at a scientific conference. Surely the fact that you can pass yourself off as something you're not says something about the substance of what you are emulating.
So when you hold a view which is so extreme it can't be parodied, because any attempt to show a more extreme version of your view fails, and looks just like the original, doesn't show a problem with the view, it show how good someone is at acting?
So when someone can NOT act crazier then YOU, it shows they're good at acting like you, and NOT that you are in fact crazy?
@UNFFWildcard Simple: those are old clips. They've lost some of their initial shock value, and he saw an opportunity to make his point resonate by tying it to (exploiting?) current events.
I guess if Tamtam was acting, then every idiot that went through my friend and I's bible study course were too. I still don't know how any of the things I told them were persuasive. Ah well.
Flamed her and sent her threats? Really? Certainly you have some proof of these accusations and aren't just talking out your ass.....right? *sigh* could one of you children actually make a valid point against Tf00t instead of just trolling him for extra views? You might as well make an anti justin bieber or chris brown video. Ya know, be honest with your intentions.
i think you're just annoyed that she did a very realistic job of it. Face it. Face what you represent my friend. Satire is a remarkably brilliant tool for shining a light on what humans claim to subscribe to. Good luck.
missed the mark by several miles. the point was that without religion pam's performance would have DEFINITELY been dismissed as the ramblings of an insane person (after editing the vid to fit into a religion free world =3). as it is, people were able to buy into it because she fits into a perception of real world religion.
until pat robertson comes out as a poe as well, these criticisms won't stick.
I think your own comment proves who actually missed the mark. Pam's performance - tailored to an atheist's world - would definitely have been believed by many. Our mainstream is so saturated with all manners of insanity from every corner of society that virtually any act can be believed by many. Whether Pat Robertson is legit is irrelevant.
So the TF's point that people can do say the most evil of things in the name of religion, using a known example of Pat is irrelevant, because he also showed another example which is functionally indistinguishable from Pat's, who was just faking it?
You seem to have missed the point. If some world view allows for such extreme examples of humanity as Pat to exist, such that distinguishing his reality from Pam's parody becomes impossible, there's a problem with that world view.
What I think Tf00t meant was "No-one would act this way without religious sentiment existing." - As such I'm not the argument is invalidated. If it were not for the fact that there are religious people who think this way, then pamela couldn't have satarised.
It's a similar line to "I wouldn't have to explain that I don't believe in any gods if it were not for religions existing and saying that such gods exist."
However, I could be wrong. I ain't watched Tf00t's vid and have no intention to.
Ok fine, this makes sense, but this is obvious and borderline tautological. If theism didn't exist, of course Pam wouldn't have been able to satire it.
@UNFFwildcard "obvious and borderline tautological" - Well I really don't see how else Tf00t could have meant it, or how it's to be interpreted.
As I say, I haven't watched Tf00t's video. He went down majorly in my estimations long enough ago for me to unsub. I'm not 'on his side' as such, but I really don't see how else it can be taken.
You're right! Saying that an actor depicting insane people is indicative of the dangers of insane people is like saying that Bruno Ganz's masterful portrayal of Adolf Hitler, showing his insanity and depravity, means that all fanatical Nazi dictators ought to be locked up.
Mr. Nicholson was portraying a fictional character. Pamela (IF she was a troll) was depicting real words from real people. I know religiosity blurs one's ability to distinguish fantasy from reality, but seriously?
Second, no, it was not simple posturing, he did mean that literally. And, if he didn't, such 'posturing' is unfit for a career scientist who should be unambiguous in expressing ideas.
Third, there was a bandwagon that I already joined against thunderf00t a long time ago, though I prefer to call it 'critical thinking and skeptical analysis'
Forth, every time I make a video against thunderf00t, I lose subscribers. Thank you for showing that.
@UNFFwildcard my point was that she didn't behave this way without religion. she was inspired by the zealots we all see every day on here. People like this actually DO exist.
It's just a YouTube video not a research paper. Lighten up.
@UNFFwildcard And you gain some as well. I genuinly like Tf00t's video's. But your video's make sense, and at the same time are the exactly opposite opinion. So it allows me to expand my worldview =). Thanks!
Why is it then that I was able to see that she was a troll, and you didn't?
Yes, I know it is sad that this is what you expect, but I'm also showing you what's constantly at the forefront of our mainstream media and perception of things. If what I expect of atheists was based on what I've been taught to believe about atheists from this exact same manstream, I would not even bother trying to engage you. I expect better because I know better, and so should you.
@UNFFwildcard Would you count Pat Robertson or Ray Comfort as trolls. That's the problem with fanatics, they are so far beyond what would be considered good, or even sane, by a relatively objective onlooker that those making parodies of it seem like the real thing.
Compare and contrast what this girl was saying, and what Jerry Fallwell said right after 9/11, and you'll see that they are similar.
@UNFFwildcard I wasn't a big fan of Thunderf00t's video either, but I don't think you're addressing his actual point, that fake or not, the video reflects the actual worldviews of many people, including many supposed moral leaders in theistic communities. He "couldn't tell the difference" because the real thing so often looks so similar, and he went on to back this up by showing Falwell and Robertson saying almost identical things in the wake of 9/11. Apply this to their case: Which Jack is it?
@MattRosenDP Still if you use someone acting to portray what Christians supposedly believe, you lack intellectual integrity. With TF's logic in hand, you can basically accuse anyone of anything. The only thing you need to do is have an actor play it out and then claim it is credible because 'it could have been real'.
If he wanted to address the world view of Christians whom he disagreed with, why did he go through the trouble of using someone whom he already thought was a troll, and then make the argument that I refuted in the first place? He should have just criticized Falwell and Robertson directly.
@UNFFwildcard There is no scientific evidence for god. There are no arguments for god that have any logical merit insofar as they pertain to the god of the bible. The bible itself is historically erroneous, morally inadequate, philosophically mundane, scientifically inept and is infelicitously written. The theological acrobatics required to justify this literary rubbish is pathetic. There could be a god, but it isn't your iniquitous and deranged demon god. TF can be a fool, but you are hollow.
In Thunderf00ts description bar he explains that the girl was being satirical.
I thought her performance was entertaining and funny to say the least. I am of the opinion that you're nit picking Thunderf00t's video to try and drum up some recognition from his overly critical videos. It pains me to say that you might not fully understand the message behind the T-F00ts video in question.
Is it possible that tamtampamela could have done a better job telling people she is a satirical person. You have to take that into consider that if you want to look at both sides of the argument. Also you have to take into consideration that thunderf00t was trying to display how crazy religion can be. I dont think he expected this to come out of his video. Plus the atheist methods you mention are some of the same if not way worse methods the christians use.......
this guys makes a good point, but the fact that sum that someone would acually troll in such a fashion that they pretend to wish such a thing to happen to japan earns her the right to violence toward her, wat she did weather a troll or not makes her a piece of shit, personally i just think she got afraid for her life, and decided to make up a story
wait, what did TF have to do with her closing her account? I dont think i watched his video, I just remember thumbing through the thousands of funny threatening comments from those who took her seriously even before Thunderfoot made a video...
Wow congratz you are sooo quick to say all atheists are like Tam, heres the thing TAM did that shit on her own and acted all on her own, NOW on to TF he should have did a bit of research before making the video because it was obvious TAM was a troll.
but you cannot gerneralize and say all atheists are like these two they acted on there own as individuals.
@himethisisme well the title is very misleading then, ive watched the video too soo, all im saying you cannot blame a whole group for what two individuals have done with videos lol.
@FawkesUniverse You may have a point if you're talking about the way he starts his video with "Atheists love..."
However it becomes clear he's talking specifically about "mainstream" Youtube atheists (TF fanboys, etc.) as the video goes on, as they're the ones who went apeshit over tamtampamela once TF fed the troll, and they're the ones who seem to get a kick out of acting as if religion fosters craziness as TF does. To that end, I couldn't agree more and as an atheist I hate that it happens.
Please come back baby, and do the right thing. Being as much truthful Christian as it can be and we will have a good time, just by watching you and listen to your deep, pious convictions :-))
In the polluted world of the dogmatic, religious idiocy - you are the source of a fresh air to our poisoned lungs.
Pamela is the one who gave the word ‘troll’, the best, positive meaning.
It’s a mockery, sarcasm and irony combined with the nowadays Kafka’s grotesque.
2) The self-refutation: You're missing the implied argument: Only religion would make you *honestly* wish for disasters like that to happen. Since she obviously didn't wish for it, her video is not in itself a counter-argument to that hypothesis.
1) The relevance of the inability to tell a troll apart from a religious nut depends on what merits you have to believe that the person is serious. Many people who are demonstrably "true" believers have said similar things. Pamela could just as well have been one of them.
This is way to thoughtfull for atheist . If atheist could find solid reason in this video then they wouldnt be atheist in the first place .
Great job of explaining it to those searching for truth even though it cannot climb to the heights of explaining it to those in search of reasons to deny the truth.
"[Bashing religion and its adherents] is practically how the entire movement stays afloat." I think it's ridiculous and/or baseless religious claims that have kept atheism afloat as a movement throughout history. ;-)
Sure, there are crazies on all sides, hence the importance of having one's religiosity or non-religiosity couched in a broad general education to avoid groupthink, ignorance, gullibility, etc. Some atheists put that as "Not all atheists are skeptics."
The point TF was making--that people can't behave a certain way without religion--was referring to the reverence toward a God for things that are, in a naturalistic view, tragedies. It seems like a pretty obvious assessment, but you're right, it isn't necessarily true. However, we all know that it is much more common among religious people because they're just that much closer to going off the deep end and acting like this girl pretended to, because they don't employ logic for their beliefs.
It's hard to tell the difference not just because of good acting but because of the fact that religious people say that kind of thing all the time. Glenn Beck loves to claim that that our woes come from Godlessness. And he gets hundreds of thousands of viewers. Maybe millions.
Also, to make a point, not everyone is Jack Nicholson.
And let me insert the implications of TF's sentence for you: "You simply cannot behave this way [sincerely] without religion."
Nice video, good points. Althouh as SuperFly suggests, the title will be sure to irk some people. Not that you aren't allowed to irk people, of course.
But ah well, too many people on either side of this (of something where there really shouldn't be just two sides) generalizing the other side. The situation is now... polarized, antagonized. Attacks are met with new attacks. This won't end well.
The problem with this person, Tamar Boehm, is she is not the real Pamela. She stole the real Pamela's identity and this is an abhorrent and unethical act. I detest and stand against the immoral action of Tamar Boehm. If you would like to check the facts please pm and I will give you the heads up on the truth.
Do you remember the comment by Pat Robertson on Haiti earthquake? He claimed that the earthquake was caused by God because Haitians made a pack with devil. Have you ever made any video actively exposing and criticizing Robertson? I'm disappointed by how little effort has been made by the so called "moderates" in criticizing some of the louder members of their religion and how atheists are only ones actively doing so.
@JaMoond Well said. There is a slight difference though, and that's that TF is more "local" than Pat - that's to say what TF says is more relevant to UNFF's viewer base than Pat. In that sense it's kinda like criticising your local news crew for reporting on a robbery that happened a few blocks from you, but not reporting on a robbery that happened on the other side of the world.
@JaMoond Little effort? First, atheists weren't the only one. Christians did criticize Pat Robertson. I'll send you a link via PM. Here on youtube, unffwildcard has criticized both VFX and creationists.
I was talking to UNFF about Pat Robertson. This video to be dismissive about the fact that ignoring "crazy" Christians is a better approach. However, it is more often then not that people who incite and make inflammatory remarks in Christian community also tend to gather large support.
The video starts off by belittling atheists for criticizing specific flagrant religious individuals. Either it is OK to direct criticism on these individuals or it isn't.
@JaMoond Define "large support" and on what basis do you make such an anaylsis? And isn't there a difference between large in number, and large in percentage of actual christians following him? After all, the former is pretty easy. Youtube's shown that pretty easily. And he didn't say anything about "specific flagrant religious individuals. It was of bashing religion as a whole. As shown by example in the images. Not even about legit criticism.
Are you saying that people like Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell don't have large number of followers? Please don't use no true Scottsman fallacy here.
TF was making a point that religion allows these people make such comments. How else would you link earthquake with some kind of ill conceived omen directed towards the victims?
To further add. Many people were duped by TamTamPamela purely because of the fact that similar remarks were made by Christians before. It makes no difference if she turned out to be a troll or not; people like that exist. The fact that these people use a tragedy as a mean to further their goals make these individuals appalling. UNFF starts the video by calling atheists a bunch of children who get by picking on particular Christians. Nevermine the fact that my atheism has nothing
to do with TamTamPamela or Pat Robertson, but the fact that merely criticizing these people gets the entire atheist community as immature kids is egregious.
@JaMoond No, what I'm saying is, what defines large since there's a difference between large in number (easy to get, depending on what is "large"), and large in percentage of christians that exist, which I know he doesn't have. We can't call someone important just for a thousand fans in countries with a million christians in a world with billions of them as well. And so religious nuts can say certain things other can't. I can say the same with multiple flavors of nutjobs.
I like your video. I only wish my largely hyperbolic vid on the issue was half as good as yours, but it was very spur-of-the-moment. Yes, Thunderf00t did use the disaster to fuel his own Quixotic attacks against *all* religious people indiscriminately, and alienate the more reasonable religious like you. However, it isn't really the fault of Thunderfanboys that tamtampamela is gone. 4chan is largely to blame. As soon as that vid of hers went up, she was flagged and harassed viciously.
You have a point. It's also a unique position that I haven't heard anyone bring up. I still like to think that Tamtam did her videos to point out flaws with fundamentalism. I admit that it could have really been just for the lolz. However, people do and say strange things no matter what their religious or non-religious beliefs are.
what i dont understand is why atheists spend so much of their time thinking about God.....I dont believee in Santa clause...i dont spend my days worriing about those who do.
@zebb1111 We don't spend so much time thinking about God, we spend it thinking about RELIGIOUS PEOPLE. The reason you don't worry about Santa Claus believers is because they have a negligible effect on your life. Imagine that 80% of your community believed in Santa Claus, and it was against the law to have your fireplace running on Christmas eve in case you burned Santa. If you had to freeze your ass off for no reason would you stand up and try to tell people Santa isn't real?
@zebb1111 As a side note... have you ever ASKED an atheist why they "spend so much of their time thinking about God"? Or do you prefer remaining ignorant, so as not to face the possibility that atheists AREN'T crazy people that worry over what people privately believe?
but poe's law is powerful as many religious people fall for it. but that by no means is general. look at conservapedia how they have pretty much been shaped by poes and the religious people just take it much farther
or the god hates fags people; most people treat them like poes but then they call the exact same thing from robertson "the truth"
i am pretty confident i wrote this how i want it but i will clarify if i didn't
It's unfortunate this video has been thumbed down so much, because I have to agree with everything you say. I subscribed to Thunderf00t because I love the Why Do People Laugh At Creationists series. They're both informative and entertaining, and it's easy to see how TF became so popular.
Unfortunately, his popularity has created a cult of personality, and I don't think he realises the influence he has on his 'flock'.
What is this steaming pile of crap? Yes, if you didn't know it was a movie The Shining would indeed show the level of mental degredation from being trapped somewhere for a long time.... did you even think this through?
@adrenacrumb Umm, did you? How does a FICTITIOUS portrayal of the effects of cabin fever in any way show the ACTUAL effects of cabin fever? You could examine the ACTUAL effects and then conclude that The Shining's fictitious portrayal is realistic, but you could not conclude that cabin fever turns people into psychopaths based solely on the movie.
In the same way, presenting a troll does NOT show the actual effects of religious corruption (though it may be an accurate portrayal).
@adrenacrumb "How does an accurate portrayal of cabin fever not respresent actual effects of cabin fever?"
Because they're NOT actual effects. The Shining is NOT a factual example of the effects of cabin fever, and so can't be presented as such. TTP's video is NOT the actual effects of religion messing with a person's brain, and so can't be presented as such either.
@adrenacrumb "How does an accurate portrayal of cabin fever not respresent actual effects of cabin fever?"
Because it's NOT the actual effects of cabin fever. The Shining is not a factual account of cabin fever, and so cannot be presented as such. Likewise, TTP's video is not a factual account of a mind warped by religion, and so cannot be presented as such either.
@adrenacrumb To try and clarify, let's use the original radio broadcast of War of the Worlds as an analogy. It was a fictitious account of an alien invasion, yet many people misidentified it as a legitimate broadcast because of how it was presented. I can't use War of the Worlds as an example of the effect an alien invasion would have on a radio broadcast simply because it was indistinguishable from an actual broadcast.
@NoeLPZC I really don't see how it matters if he used an authentic person expressing this belief or not. In the end is it not exactly what religious fundamentalists are thinking and saying? What does the source he used matter?
@adrenacrumb "In the end is it not exactly what religious fundamentalists are thinking and saying"
No it's not, because she's not a religious fundamentalist :P
"I mean if he used clips from a movie about MLK would you complain it isn't accurate because it isn't actually MLK himself in the movie?"
That would depend on whether the scene is fictitious or a recreation of an actual event. If they had MLK saying "I have a dream... THERE ARE STRIPPERS!" then yes it's inaccurate.
@NoeLPZC Please tell me how she is misrepresenting the common Christian fundamentalist who claims God caused the earthquake. For your conjecture to make any sense you would have to show how she conflated the mentality of a fundamentalist.
@adrenacrumb To use another analogy, let's say a group of nerds decide to parody frat boys. They host a massive kegger, get blind drunk and obnoxious, rape some girls, set fire to the campus, and get arrested. Is it fair for someone to point to this case and say "look how those horrible frat boys are out raping and setting fire to everything. Frat boys are total fags - let's berate them for being rapists"? No, of course not. You would have to point to an ACTUAL case of frat boys getting rapey.
@adrenacrumb You can't claim religious fundamentalists are saying X because a person who appears to be but is in fact not a religious fundamentalists is saying X. If you want to claim religious fundamentalists are saying X you have to show AN ACTUAL RELIGIOUS FUNDAMENTALIST saying X. You can't say "this poe says God caused the Earthquake, therefore the people she's parodying are also saying God caused the Earthquake - how sick and twisted they must be!".
I disagree that from similarities we learn nothing. If the reaction is "I have never seen anything like this, this is not credible?" and "This may or may not be true, I have seen similar" this does encode potential information.
A troll alone indeed says nothing. But a troll in a socio-cultural context comments on it at least in some way.
That doesn't mean that TF's use of TTP's segment was good argument to say the least.
As for the video title: "This is your brain on stereotyping".
yeah... I found his comment to be ignorant, to suggest that if she was an atheists that portrayed a religious fanatic so well, just shows how screwed up religious people are. I think his description came after the video, I think he wanted in on the attention.
I see Jack Nicholson, and a most staggering performance... Not to mention a perfectly portraied Claudius by Patrick Stewart... Thanks for putting them together in one video... and calling Thunderf00t in the process :-) very much appreciated...
@TENNSUMITSUMA Your comment is only true because most PEOPLE are "group think, herd mentality imbeciles". It's about as useful as saying "most atheists have two lungs".
There will always be sheep on both sides (ironically, this behaviour is somewhat encouraged on the religious side). To point the finger and say "look at those imbeciles!" is very much the plank-in-the-eye scenario Jesus warned you about.
thats not the only reason my comment is true. here is the problem, atheists on average get on the nuts of religious people for being 'group think, herd mentality imbeciles' while hailing themselves as 'free thinkers'. yet as its being proven here and in other videos they are even more so than the people they ridicule for being.
The point of POE's law is that it points out the absurdities of the extremist religious beliefs by making them indistinguishable from the satire that follows them. Checl Nephillimfree's videos and VenomfangX's. These guys aren't faking it yet the satirical attempts to undermine them fall flat because it is impossible to increase the absurdity levels for the use of satire without veering from the subject.
UNFF, please remember who started it: are Pat Robertson, Peter Popoff and Kent Hovind all good actors too?
How do you draw the distinction between TamTamPam's vid about the Japanese earthquake being an answer to her prayers, and Robertson's claim that the Haiti earthquake happened because Haitians sold their souls to the devil?
There would be no satire if there wasn't something seriously messed-up to satirise.
Hopefully the Japan earthquake troll will wake people up to how reprehensible this ascendent form of atheism can be. Also, some of those image macros at the beginning were beyond idiotic. Richard Dawkins, et al, are getting rich by convincing people of mediocre intelligence that they're actually very clever.
Well said UNFFwildcard. I am an Atheist but I am no Thunderf00l. I am ashamed of the shit he comes up with. In fact I am extending my own faculty of shame over Tf00l for he has become indeed a shameless douche-bag.
I would have ignored Thunderf00t a long time ago, but some how he has a large following which still agree with him on this stuff. That's what boggles my mind. I'm just agreeing with you on how ridiculous it is that this has to be explained to people.
So now it's your job mate to show how religion sniffs out these "crazy people" and deals with them.
Oh wait they don't and people like benny hinn, carl baugh get hundreds of millions of dollars. Tens of thousands of people go to places like liberty university where bullshit is taught and radio stations like the AFA thrive.
See the problem is you QQ about us making fun of jesus but you fail to realize how main stream these beliefs are.
i couldnt care less who you give a fuck about. simple fact is you said 'So now it's your job mate to show how religion sniffs out these "crazy people" and deals with them. Oh wait they don't....', and that is a lie as my video proves. you giving a fuck is irrelevant as its not required.
and you weren't talking to anyone or an @(username) would have appeared. its called replying to a comment genius. then there is the fact that you didnt say this shit to anyone else that replied 2 u
@chupamiubre No its not his job. He didnt say religion sniffs out the crazy people. Youre putting words in his mouth. And even though religion doesnt 'sniff' out crazy people, the lack of a religion doesnt do anything either, that is to say people will be crazy regardless of religion. Take away the blind/wacky devotion to God and you'll get a blind/wacky devotion to something else to fill the void.
@chupamiubre The beliefs may be mainstream, but that does not mean that if you go to many theological seminaries people like Benny Hinn and Carl Baugh will not have a listenable audience. If TF does not represent all of atheism, then these people do not represent all of theism. Atheism is a growing market for ignorance - theism just had a millennia with tighter political ties to get there.
@chupamiubre Are you completely unaware that religious groups warn about people like Benny Hinn and such? So YES. We do deal with charlatans and deceivers who pervert the gospel for their own needs. The problem is, just like people who give doctors ulcers by buying into every kind of "medicine" that is peddled on TV, is that there are gullible people in this world.
Just as you can't fool all the people all of the time, you can't save them all of the time either.
@DecKrash They must be doing a shit job because when people like Lou Engle gets 400,000 people to attend his batshit crazy meetings you having got to be doing it wrong. The facts are you do not govern your own.
@chupamiubre So what's the problem with science, when they can't get thousands to millions of people every year to stop taking quack medicines? Don't make it look like it's a religion's fault for not doing fire control. People are gullible, and will do what they want. It's not any religion's job to make people make the right decision. We can only show them the right way, and leave the deciding up to them.
@chupamiubre "...atheism and health care go together."
Um... WTF??? A great deal of hospitals are founded and run by religious institutions. Do your research, man!
And no. By what you just said, you can say the same thing about science leading people down the wrong path. Like snake oil salesmen of olden days and frivolous medicines of nowadays misusing people's ignorance science and medicine, charlatan televangelists and cultists misuse ignorance of truth and faith to deceive many.
I should add that, anthropologically, "sanity" is a social construct. e.g. while the sadhu monks of hindu culture who drink from skulls and undertake self-mutilation are viewed as "normal" in their own culture, they would most likely be viewed as "insane" in, say, Kansas City or some places in the Bible Belt. This doesn't really diminish your point, however, and I should also add that this is probably one of the best response I've seen to Thunderf00t. ;)
I think Thunderf00t using this troll as an excuse to attack religion, but then saying her being a troll or not isn't relevant to his argument really tells you a lot about the state of our so called "rational thinkers" today. Just look at TF's thunderflock! They don't see how irrational their attack on religion is. It's insane.
I really couldn't tell that she was just trolling, because there has been other religious people making similar claims in the past. For example, wasn't there a pastor that claimed that the disaster of hurricane Katrina was due to God punishing some lesbian comedian in New Orleans? Tamtampamala's trolling was believable because it had a certain air of plausibility. I don't think Atheists claim to be able to see through every kind of fraud, we understand that our thinking can be led astray.
Grow up kid, your imaginary sky wizards don't really exist. Religion has had far too much respect for far too long. Maybe in time the self deception of religion will leave you and you'll come to understand what secular humanists are trying to do. You seen like an intelligent person but sadly the right connections in your brain haven't come together yet.
bigboy45454545 4 weeks ago
This also reminds me of Poe's Law. It's when it's hard to tell if someone/thing is just satire or being serious.
MegaOrwell1984 4 weeks ago
americans are addicted to stupid,think about jackass,homer simpson,peter griffin
stupid is a cool thing in america
ive asked people before who,what is the secretary of state
i actualy got a few that thought it was the person who takes the governors phone calls
this is a big problem
coltsrule5150 1 month ago
Your Jack Nicholson analogy is flawed. Snowed in cabin-dwellers are not trying to legislate their craziness, religious fundamentalists are. The reason a good actor can fool people is because the actions they are preforming match the reality that they are portraying. When absurd parody so closely resembles the genuine article it betrays the absurdity of the genuine article, not the other way around.
AgeOfScience 2 months ago in playlist Uploaded videos
No, it doesn't demonstrate anything about religion. However, it does show how many shit people had to take from religion and how little sense for irony people have. I mean, I today still find it hard to believe there are creationists in this world.
If Pamela's parody was the worst religious mind I ever saw I would agree you have a valid point.
Bulloxe4 4 months ago
Yes, EVERYBODY got trolled by this girl and it is part @Thunderf00t fault for not making a little background research, but let's not forget about her inspiration...if you search for videos of the Japan earthquake/tsunami and read the comment section you will most likely find tens, if not hundreds of people that said something similar to what she said. So the argument still stands...religion will make people crazy.
PretendingSleep 6 months ago
Comment removed
PretendingSleep 6 months ago
Atheism is the new prejudice, and like past prejudice, most of them are just idiots and the larger they grow to more people will see how stupid they are.
VictoryfortheFreeman 6 months ago
In Matthew there's a story about dead saints comign back to life, crawling out their graves and wandering around downtown Judea. If that doesn't sound like a typical Zombie story I dont know what is.
Edbrad 7 months ago
This guy is a nitpicker and shows the BIG nothing in his videos. He tries to attack anything no matter what. He is a type of guy who disagrees with you just for the heck of it. You are not constructive and playing devils advocate all the time. You are a frustrated chump. Cheers!
dumbnetworks 8 months ago
Very good video. It's a shame the atheist votebots came through here. I doubt most of them watch it.
AgApE010 8 months ago
Well done. I think all atheists should watch this video: watch?v=GtE62d00Sps
One could easily turn Tf00t's argument around and say to be a real nut case, you have to be an atheist.
My two cents is that Tf00t has seen how famous people like Hitchens has become and he simply wants a piece of the action (read: ca$h). Instead, he as simply turned into an atheist version of Lee Strobel.
jimmo42 8 months ago
@jimmo42 Don't ever compare hitchens to Tf00t again imho. Hitchens is way out of his league. Is way more thought provoking , etc. I'm not the biggest hichens fan, I haven't read all his books. But damn when I hear the guy speaks it isn't shit coming out of his mouth, EVER.
ForYeensSake 8 months ago
@ForYeensSake My sincerest apologies. It was not my intent. I wasn't actually comparing the two, simply saying Tf00t wants to make name for himself in the anti-theist community (like Hitchens) in order to cash in (or get cash). I agree with you. I think Hitchens can be really abrasive sometimes, but knows what he is talking about.
jimmo42 8 months ago
@jimmo42 No problem. The idea is just frustrating, Tf00t makes really good science video's. But is terrible when it comes to philosophy imho. I mean he could be right and he still wouldn't know why.
ForYeensSake 8 months ago
Whether J. Torrence is crazy or J. Nicholson acts crazy, the point is that it's crazy, psychotic behavior. Tf00t's point was that a video which depicts a crazy religious nut (as satire) was perceived as not so far-out crazy because we are so used to the loud voice and strong presence of far-out religious nuts in our society. If those zealots are just crazy IYO, why do moderate theists remain so quiet about it? If you theists want respect, say, loudly: Religious zealots are crazy! We do. Join us!
mike200017 8 months ago
Its time for everyone to start respecting his neighbor ... leave religions behind.. and use one's own intelligence that comes from a deep regard for " all " others ...
jungian9111 8 months ago
Thanks for the video, bro. And YES, the world IS obsessed with crazy people, and guys like Thunderf00t and BionicDance milk that for all it's worth, which is absolutely disgusting imo.
So who are the REAL ones that are crazy? The CERTAIN individuals who claim to be religious, or Thunderf00t and anybody else for only going after the crazies when clearly not all religious people are like that?
BassP86 8 months ago
explain the spanish inquisition
stealthgerm 9 months ago
Thunderfoot is wise to be sure, but obviously not without flaw -- your points are right on, card'.
Hardryv 10 months ago
Jack Torrence is fake crazy. Religion is real crazy.
globalist1789 10 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@globalist1789
"Jack Torrence is fake crazy. Religion is real crazy." - What's the difference? You're ignoring UNFF's point that "what you DIDN'T know if Jack Nicholson was an actor?" You're completing ignoring that part, by assuming that Jack Torrence IS acting. But what if he wasn't? How could you tell?
Try answering that question. Otherwise, I suggest you stop the trolling.
BassP86 8 months ago
I think we need to consider the important differences between a satirist a poe and a troll. While a satirist requires real talent to exaggerate their subject, they are successful to the extent they make it obvious. A poe just flies under the radar and tries to be convincing for the attention and to combine being a troll, which is just for provocation. Pam was a troll and a poe, but not a good satirist. I prefer to take trolls and poes at face value. Act like an asshole & to me you're an asshole.
skepticoz 11 months ago
I love Land over Baptist church!
"Tampons are satans cotton finger!"
I lol'd HARD reading that article! :D
HomoCyborgZombie 11 months ago
I'd have to agree Calpurnpiso is one weird fuck lol.
NashvilleKildCountry 11 months ago
Pfft...
pineapplejon 11 months ago
this seems to have to be pointed out over and over again, but it wasn't thunderf00t at all who caused the insane harrassment of pammela. i know this, because i was at her video, whicih i knew of before then (i was subbed to her) , many hours before TF made his vid, i got sent there through a link on 4chans "random" board, or /b/, which was presumably also where he got her vid , she was already getting 200 comments per minute, something which TF would never even be able to cause.
lepthymo 11 months ago
Mindless babble form a mindless moron.
mymojorisin 11 months ago
Pamela was holding up a satirical mirror to *a kind* of religion. I did some checking and she was subbed and befriended by *some* real YT Christians. Also a lot of her arguments were frighteningly close to those made by actual theists.
I am an atheist who went off Thunderf00t and I have many problems with him, but the opening of this video was needlessly hostile and suggests, IMO, bigotry on your part.
Congrats on the clips from the David Tennant version of Hamlet though, it's brilliant.
Al1981X 11 months ago
I can see what you're trying to say, but what you're attacking is a straw man.
Stonehawk 11 months ago
"I'm not going to hurt ya, im just going to bash your brains in." One of my favorite lines in that movie. xD
AbusiveAntitheist 11 months ago
I think the point is being unable to tell if the ideas are borne of a crazy mind or by an actor's mind. Consider a second grader successfully passing himself off as a leading researcher at a scientific conference. Surely the fact that you can pass yourself off as something you're not says something about the substance of what you are emulating.
WendingWayfarer 11 months ago
My last comment was removed...
Anyway leave Thunderf00t alone.
He ended her success at perpetuating hatred. Whether or not she was an atheist is not important. She was not his ally.
HeyRuka 11 months ago
Comment removed
HeyRuka 11 months ago
So when you hold a view which is so extreme it can't be parodied, because any attempt to show a more extreme version of your view fails, and looks just like the original, doesn't show a problem with the view, it show how good someone is at acting?
So when someone can NOT act crazier then YOU, it shows they're good at acting like you, and NOT that you are in fact crazy?
mordinvan 11 months ago
I think tf went to far . Tf new atheist and do what ever take bush religion even to lie. I shows how much tf hates religion.
spark300c 11 months ago
@spark300c to be honest.... After you have dealt with the religious bullshit for so long.... There is really nothing left besides hate.
MilitantAtheistAhole 11 months ago
Religion makes Jack crazy and that was the point.
pineconesaresmallnow 11 months ago
Well said.
TrustinJC 11 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
!... who is thunderfoot im new here
okuma0kuma 11 months ago
@Lingula77 I'll try to remember that the next time I'm ACing a rape scene on a film set.
MattRosenDP 11 months ago
@UNFFWildcard Simple: those are old clips. They've lost some of their initial shock value, and he saw an opportunity to make his point resonate by tying it to (exploiting?) current events.
MattRosenDP 11 months ago
I guess if Tamtam was acting, then every idiot that went through my friend and I's bible study course were too. I still don't know how any of the things I told them were persuasive. Ah well.
xkj5696281 11 months ago
Flamed her and sent her threats? Really? Certainly you have some proof of these accusations and aren't just talking out your ass.....right? *sigh* could one of you children actually make a valid point against Tf00t instead of just trolling him for extra views? You might as well make an anti justin bieber or chris brown video. Ya know, be honest with your intentions.
Sav3TheWorld 11 months ago
i think you're just annoyed that she did a very realistic job of it. Face it. Face what you represent my friend. Satire is a remarkably brilliant tool for shining a light on what humans claim to subscribe to. Good luck.
ohdoshutit1 11 months ago
Can god put on an act that is sooo convincing that not even he can see through it?
Violent2aShadow 11 months ago
missed the mark by several miles. the point was that without religion pam's performance would have DEFINITELY been dismissed as the ramblings of an insane person (after editing the vid to fit into a religion free world =3). as it is, people were able to buy into it because she fits into a perception of real world religion.
until pat robertson comes out as a poe as well, these criticisms won't stick.
dreadpiratedan 11 months ago
I think your own comment proves who actually missed the mark. Pam's performance - tailored to an atheist's world - would definitely have been believed by many. Our mainstream is so saturated with all manners of insanity from every corner of society that virtually any act can be believed by many. Whether Pat Robertson is legit is irrelevant.
UNFFwildcard 11 months ago
@UNFFwildcard
So the TF's point that people can do say the most evil of things in the name of religion, using a known example of Pat is irrelevant, because he also showed another example which is functionally indistinguishable from Pat's, who was just faking it?
You seem to have missed the point. If some world view allows for such extreme examples of humanity as Pat to exist, such that distinguishing his reality from Pam's parody becomes impossible, there's a problem with that world view.
mordinvan 11 months ago
lol, never heard of her before. thank goodness :P
DecentralizedByGuilt 11 months ago
What I think Tf00t meant was "No-one would act this way without religious sentiment existing." - As such I'm not the argument is invalidated. If it were not for the fact that there are religious people who think this way, then pamela couldn't have satarised.
It's a similar line to "I wouldn't have to explain that I don't believe in any gods if it were not for religions existing and saying that such gods exist."
However, I could be wrong. I ain't watched Tf00t's vid and have no intention to.
Widgetas 11 months ago
@Widgetas
Ok fine, this makes sense, but this is obvious and borderline tautological. If theism didn't exist, of course Pam wouldn't have been able to satire it.
UNFFwildcard 11 months ago
@UNFFwildcard "obvious and borderline tautological" - Well I really don't see how else Tf00t could have meant it, or how it's to be interpreted.
As I say, I haven't watched Tf00t's video. He went down majorly in my estimations long enough ago for me to unsub. I'm not 'on his side' as such, but I really don't see how else it can be taken.
Widgetas 11 months ago
You're right! Saying that an actor depicting insane people is indicative of the dangers of insane people is like saying that Bruno Ganz's masterful portrayal of Adolf Hitler, showing his insanity and depravity, means that all fanatical Nazi dictators ought to be locked up.
Mr. Nicholson was portraying a fictional character. Pamela (IF she was a troll) was depicting real words from real people. I know religiosity blurs one's ability to distinguish fantasy from reality, but seriously?
artgoat 11 months ago
6:41
You overlooked that her inspiration for the video was . . . Religion.
Besides that's a moot point.
What Thunderf00t said about only religion being able to cause that kind of behavior was conversational posturing.
You're nit picking every little detail far to literally man.
This video seems just like an attempt to hop the let's hate Tf00t bandwagon that has started in the past few months.
A controversial stab to get more subscribers and comments.
My response is to unsubscribe.
Peace.
obsleet 11 months ago
First, so what if her insipiration was religion?
Second, no, it was not simple posturing, he did mean that literally. And, if he didn't, such 'posturing' is unfit for a career scientist who should be unambiguous in expressing ideas.
Third, there was a bandwagon that I already joined against thunderf00t a long time ago, though I prefer to call it 'critical thinking and skeptical analysis'
Forth, every time I make a video against thunderf00t, I lose subscribers. Thank you for showing that.
UNFFwildcard 11 months ago 8
@UNFFwildcard my point was that she didn't behave this way without religion. she was inspired by the zealots we all see every day on here. People like this actually DO exist.
It's just a YouTube video not a research paper. Lighten up.
obsleet 11 months ago
@UNFFwildcard
"Forth, every time I make a video against thunderf00t, I lose subscribers. Thank you for showing that."
that's because your videos use logic and rationality, supporters of thunderf00t don't like that.
MegaExelo 8 months ago
@UNFFwildcard And you gain some as well. I genuinly like Tf00t's video's. But your video's make sense, and at the same time are the exactly opposite opinion. So it allows me to expand my worldview =). Thanks!
ForYeensSake 8 months ago
@UNFFwildcard to be honest.....why even make a video like she did....
hell.....i thought she was legit......(great acting)
but cant you see its sad that this is what we expect of religious people.....
azmanabdula 11 months ago
@azmanabdula
Why is it then that I was able to see that she was a troll, and you didn't?
Yes, I know it is sad that this is what you expect, but I'm also showing you what's constantly at the forefront of our mainstream media and perception of things. If what I expect of atheists was based on what I've been taught to believe about atheists from this exact same manstream, I would not even bother trying to engage you. I expect better because I know better, and so should you.
UNFFwildcard 11 months ago
@UNFFwildcard i get the feeling you respect what she has done..........
i dont exactly go looking for troll videos.....
i expected some crazy religious nut....
took me by surprise......
but seriously.....stop trying to break social trends...youll give everyone a headache : )
azmanabdula 11 months ago
@UNFFwildcard Would you count Pat Robertson or Ray Comfort as trolls. That's the problem with fanatics, they are so far beyond what would be considered good, or even sane, by a relatively objective onlooker that those making parodies of it seem like the real thing.
Compare and contrast what this girl was saying, and what Jerry Fallwell said right after 9/11, and you'll see that they are similar.
Jonstern1983 11 months ago
@UNFFwildcard I wasn't a big fan of Thunderf00t's video either, but I don't think you're addressing his actual point, that fake or not, the video reflects the actual worldviews of many people, including many supposed moral leaders in theistic communities. He "couldn't tell the difference" because the real thing so often looks so similar, and he went on to back this up by showing Falwell and Robertson saying almost identical things in the wake of 9/11. Apply this to their case: Which Jack is it?
MattRosenDP 11 months ago
@MattRosenDP Still if you use someone acting to portray what Christians supposedly believe, you lack intellectual integrity. With TF's logic in hand, you can basically accuse anyone of anything. The only thing you need to do is have an actor play it out and then claim it is credible because 'it could have been real'.
Lingula77 11 months ago
@MattRosenDP
If he wanted to address the world view of Christians whom he disagreed with, why did he go through the trouble of using someone whom he already thought was a troll, and then make the argument that I refuted in the first place? He should have just criticized Falwell and Robertson directly.
UNFFwildcard 11 months ago
@UNFFwildcard There is no scientific evidence for god. There are no arguments for god that have any logical merit insofar as they pertain to the god of the bible. The bible itself is historically erroneous, morally inadequate, philosophically mundane, scientifically inept and is infelicitously written. The theological acrobatics required to justify this literary rubbish is pathetic. There could be a god, but it isn't your iniquitous and deranged demon god. TF can be a fool, but you are hollow.
tessellation 6 months ago
@tessellation
...where did this comment come from?
UNFFwildcard 6 months ago
Great use of Jerry Springer lol.
NashvilleKildCountry 11 months ago
In Thunderf00ts description bar he explains that the girl was being satirical.
I thought her performance was entertaining and funny to say the least. I am of the opinion that you're nit picking Thunderf00t's video to try and drum up some recognition from his overly critical videos. It pains me to say that you might not fully understand the message behind the T-F00ts video in question.
kosherzombie 11 months ago
Is it possible that tamtampamela could have done a better job telling people she is a satirical person. You have to take that into consider that if you want to look at both sides of the argument. Also you have to take into consideration that thunderf00t was trying to display how crazy religion can be. I dont think he expected this to come out of his video. Plus the atheist methods you mention are some of the same if not way worse methods the christians use.......
minnesotavikingsnfl 11 months ago
this guys makes a good point, but the fact that sum that someone would acually troll in such a fashion that they pretend to wish such a thing to happen to japan earns her the right to violence toward her, wat she did weather a troll or not makes her a piece of shit, personally i just think she got afraid for her life, and decided to make up a story
magevandetta 11 months ago
zombie unff
laapache1 11 months ago
Still watching Thunderf00t, you poor old thing
RevDevilin 11 months ago
Good one Wildcard! And I hope you won't have TF:s followers being mean to you!
bhoas 11 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
wait, what did TF have to do with her closing her account? I dont think i watched his video, I just remember thumbing through the thousands of funny threatening comments from those who took her seriously even before Thunderfoot made a video...
Mcfly88 11 months ago
Comment removed
Mcfly88 11 months ago
Comment removed
Mcfly88 11 months ago
What if you don't see Jack Nicholson or Jack Torrence? What if you see Homer Simpson?
Billhawk74 11 months ago 11
@Billhawk74
I'll tell you the truth - I was having the same problem =D
UNFFwildcard 11 months ago
I didn't like the fact that people used her video whether she was trolling or not. Because, ti was too easy.
truvelocity 11 months ago
thank God for rational answers
simsimaz2 11 months ago
Wow congratz you are sooo quick to say all atheists are like Tam, heres the thing TAM did that shit on her own and acted all on her own, NOW on to TF he should have did a bit of research before making the video because it was obvious TAM was a troll.
but you cannot gerneralize and say all atheists are like these two they acted on there own as individuals.
FawkesUniverse 11 months ago
@FawkesUniverse He didn't say that.
himethisisme 11 months ago
@himethisisme well the title is very misleading then, ive watched the video too soo, all im saying you cannot blame a whole group for what two individuals have done with videos lol.
FawkesUniverse 11 months ago
@FawkesUniverse You may have a point if you're talking about the way he starts his video with "Atheists love..."
However it becomes clear he's talking specifically about "mainstream" Youtube atheists (TF fanboys, etc.) as the video goes on, as they're the ones who went apeshit over tamtampamela once TF fed the troll, and they're the ones who seem to get a kick out of acting as if religion fosters craziness as TF does. To that end, I couldn't agree more and as an atheist I hate that it happens.
himethisisme 11 months ago
I really hope this is just you trolling us unffwildcard...calling atheism psudo-rational is just wrong...its the most rational position...
Timmay123456789 11 months ago
Come back TamtamPamela, please.
Please come back baby, and do the right thing. Being as much truthful Christian as it can be and we will have a good time, just by watching you and listen to your deep, pious convictions :-))
In the polluted world of the dogmatic, religious idiocy - you are the source of a fresh air to our poisoned lungs.
Pamela is the one who gave the word ‘troll’, the best, positive meaning.
It’s a mockery, sarcasm and irony combined with the nowadays Kafka’s grotesque.
MrJurekGG 11 months ago
(Cont'd)
2) The self-refutation: You're missing the implied argument: Only religion would make you *honestly* wish for disasters like that to happen. Since she obviously didn't wish for it, her video is not in itself a counter-argument to that hypothesis.
Gameboygenius 11 months ago
I think you're missing two things:
1) The relevance of the inability to tell a troll apart from a religious nut depends on what merits you have to believe that the person is serious. Many people who are demonstrably "true" believers have said similar things. Pamela could just as well have been one of them.
Gameboygenius 11 months ago
This is way to thoughtfull for atheist . If atheist could find solid reason in this video then they wouldnt be atheist in the first place .
Great job of explaining it to those searching for truth even though it cannot climb to the heights of explaining it to those in search of reasons to deny the truth.
JAMRAND 11 months ago
@JAMRAND
Your spelling, on the other hand, is anything but "way to thoughtfulll."
tifforo1 11 months ago
"[Bashing religion and its adherents] is practically how the entire movement stays afloat." I think it's ridiculous and/or baseless religious claims that have kept atheism afloat as a movement throughout history. ;-)
Sure, there are crazies on all sides, hence the importance of having one's religiosity or non-religiosity couched in a broad general education to avoid groupthink, ignorance, gullibility, etc. Some atheists put that as "Not all atheists are skeptics."
wimsweden 11 months ago
Good points. Though the title is a bit insulting, myself being an atheist who isn't thrilled with any of this behavior lately.
dannypantsgm 11 months ago
The point TF was making--that people can't behave a certain way without religion--was referring to the reverence toward a God for things that are, in a naturalistic view, tragedies. It seems like a pretty obvious assessment, but you're right, it isn't necessarily true. However, we all know that it is much more common among religious people because they're just that much closer to going off the deep end and acting like this girl pretended to, because they don't employ logic for their beliefs.
Loustrikesagain 11 months ago
It's hard to tell the difference not just because of good acting but because of the fact that religious people say that kind of thing all the time. Glenn Beck loves to claim that that our woes come from Godlessness. And he gets hundreds of thousands of viewers. Maybe millions.
Also, to make a point, not everyone is Jack Nicholson.
And let me insert the implications of TF's sentence for you: "You simply cannot behave this way [sincerely] without religion."
Loustrikesagain 11 months ago
wow thunderf00t fail
MWM958 11 months ago
Nice video, good points. Althouh as SuperFly suggests, the title will be sure to irk some people. Not that you aren't allowed to irk people, of course.
But ah well, too many people on either side of this (of something where there really shouldn't be just two sides) generalizing the other side. The situation is now... polarized, antagonized. Attacks are met with new attacks. This won't end well.
Gnug215 11 months ago
The problem with this person, Tamar Boehm, is she is not the real Pamela. She stole the real Pamela's identity and this is an abhorrent and unethical act. I detest and stand against the immoral action of Tamar Boehm. If you would like to check the facts please pm and I will give you the heads up on the truth.
journeyer58 11 months ago
Do you remember the comment by Pat Robertson on Haiti earthquake? He claimed that the earthquake was caused by God because Haitians made a pack with devil. Have you ever made any video actively exposing and criticizing Robertson? I'm disappointed by how little effort has been made by the so called "moderates" in criticizing some of the louder members of their religion and how atheists are only ones actively doing so.
JaMoond 11 months ago
@JaMoond Well said. There is a slight difference though, and that's that TF is more "local" than Pat - that's to say what TF says is more relevant to UNFF's viewer base than Pat. In that sense it's kinda like criticising your local news crew for reporting on a robbery that happened a few blocks from you, but not reporting on a robbery that happened on the other side of the world.
NoeLPZC 11 months ago
@JaMoond Little effort? First, atheists weren't the only one. Christians did criticize Pat Robertson. I'll send you a link via PM. Here on youtube, unffwildcard has criticized both VFX and creationists.
gellymatos 11 months ago
@gellymatos
I was talking to UNFF about Pat Robertson. This video to be dismissive about the fact that ignoring "crazy" Christians is a better approach. However, it is more often then not that people who incite and make inflammatory remarks in Christian community also tend to gather large support.
The video starts off by belittling atheists for criticizing specific flagrant religious individuals. Either it is OK to direct criticism on these individuals or it isn't.
JaMoond 11 months ago
@JaMoond Define "large support" and on what basis do you make such an anaylsis? And isn't there a difference between large in number, and large in percentage of actual christians following him? After all, the former is pretty easy. Youtube's shown that pretty easily. And he didn't say anything about "specific flagrant religious individuals. It was of bashing religion as a whole. As shown by example in the images. Not even about legit criticism.
gellymatos 11 months ago
@gellymatos
Are you saying that people like Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell don't have large number of followers? Please don't use no true Scottsman fallacy here.
TF was making a point that religion allows these people make such comments. How else would you link earthquake with some kind of ill conceived omen directed towards the victims?
JaMoond 11 months ago
@JaMoond
To further add. Many people were duped by TamTamPamela purely because of the fact that similar remarks were made by Christians before. It makes no difference if she turned out to be a troll or not; people like that exist. The fact that these people use a tragedy as a mean to further their goals make these individuals appalling. UNFF starts the video by calling atheists a bunch of children who get by picking on particular Christians. Nevermine the fact that my atheism has nothing
JaMoond 11 months ago
to do with TamTamPamela or Pat Robertson, but the fact that merely criticizing these people gets the entire atheist community as immature kids is egregious.
JaMoond 11 months ago
@JaMoond No, what I'm saying is, what defines large since there's a difference between large in number (easy to get, depending on what is "large"), and large in percentage of christians that exist, which I know he doesn't have. We can't call someone important just for a thousand fans in countries with a million christians in a world with billions of them as well. And so religious nuts can say certain things other can't. I can say the same with multiple flavors of nutjobs.
gellymatos 11 months ago
I like your video. I only wish my largely hyperbolic vid on the issue was half as good as yours, but it was very spur-of-the-moment. Yes, Thunderf00t did use the disaster to fuel his own Quixotic attacks against *all* religious people indiscriminately, and alienate the more reasonable religious like you. However, it isn't really the fault of Thunderfanboys that tamtampamela is gone. 4chan is largely to blame. As soon as that vid of hers went up, she was flagged and harassed viciously.
Afriboy10 11 months ago
Are you as big a fan of Stanley Kubrick as I am?
migkillertwo 11 months ago
You have a point. It's also a unique position that I haven't heard anyone bring up. I still like to think that Tamtam did her videos to point out flaws with fundamentalism. I admit that it could have really been just for the lolz. However, people do and say strange things no matter what their religious or non-religious beliefs are.
amberview30 11 months ago
Her docs were dumbed on 4chan (rules 1&2, I know). I think it would have happened to her anyway.
HorridDreams 11 months ago
what i dont understand is why atheists spend so much of their time thinking about God.....I dont believee in Santa clause...i dont spend my days worriing about those who do.
zebb1111 11 months ago
@zebb1111 We don't spend so much time thinking about God, we spend it thinking about RELIGIOUS PEOPLE. The reason you don't worry about Santa Claus believers is because they have a negligible effect on your life. Imagine that 80% of your community believed in Santa Claus, and it was against the law to have your fireplace running on Christmas eve in case you burned Santa. If you had to freeze your ass off for no reason would you stand up and try to tell people Santa isn't real?
NoeLPZC 11 months ago
@zebb1111 As a side note... have you ever ASKED an atheist why they "spend so much of their time thinking about God"? Or do you prefer remaining ignorant, so as not to face the possibility that atheists AREN'T crazy people that worry over what people privately believe?
NoeLPZC 11 months ago
@zebb1111 I agree with the person above. I don't think about god, but I do think about rights that are taken away due to religious views.
amberview30 11 months ago
i think i agree with you
1. tamtam trolling is not religious or secular
but poe's law is powerful as many religious people fall for it. but that by no means is general. look at conservapedia how they have pretty much been shaped by poes and the religious people just take it much farther
or the god hates fags people; most people treat them like poes but then they call the exact same thing from robertson "the truth"
i am pretty confident i wrote this how i want it but i will clarify if i didn't
nailo1 11 months ago
There is no test for rationality that you have to pass before adopting a certain belief.
tifforo1 11 months ago
Also lulz at potential ally.
adrenacrumb 11 months ago
It's unfortunate this video has been thumbed down so much, because I have to agree with everything you say. I subscribed to Thunderf00t because I love the Why Do People Laugh At Creationists series. They're both informative and entertaining, and it's easy to see how TF became so popular.
Unfortunately, his popularity has created a cult of personality, and I don't think he realises the influence he has on his 'flock'.
NoeLPZC 11 months ago 2
What is this steaming pile of crap? Yes, if you didn't know it was a movie The Shining would indeed show the level of mental degredation from being trapped somewhere for a long time.... did you even think this through?
adrenacrumb 11 months ago
@adrenacrumb Umm, did you? How does a FICTITIOUS portrayal of the effects of cabin fever in any way show the ACTUAL effects of cabin fever? You could examine the ACTUAL effects and then conclude that The Shining's fictitious portrayal is realistic, but you could not conclude that cabin fever turns people into psychopaths based solely on the movie.
In the same way, presenting a troll does NOT show the actual effects of religious corruption (though it may be an accurate portrayal).
NoeLPZC 11 months ago
@NoeLPZC What, are you retarded?
adrenacrumb 11 months ago
@NoeLPZC How does an accurate portrayal of cabin fever not respresent actual effects of cabin fever?
adrenacrumb 11 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@adrenacrumb "How does an accurate portrayal of cabin fever not respresent actual effects of cabin fever?"
Because they're NOT actual effects. The Shining is NOT a factual example of the effects of cabin fever, and so can't be presented as such. TTP's video is NOT the actual effects of religion messing with a person's brain, and so can't be presented as such either.
NoeLPZC 11 months ago
@adrenacrumb "How does an accurate portrayal of cabin fever not respresent actual effects of cabin fever?"
Because it's NOT the actual effects of cabin fever. The Shining is not a factual account of cabin fever, and so cannot be presented as such. Likewise, TTP's video is not a factual account of a mind warped by religion, and so cannot be presented as such either.
NoeLPZC 11 months ago
@adrenacrumb To try and clarify, let's use the original radio broadcast of War of the Worlds as an analogy. It was a fictitious account of an alien invasion, yet many people misidentified it as a legitimate broadcast because of how it was presented. I can't use War of the Worlds as an example of the effect an alien invasion would have on a radio broadcast simply because it was indistinguishable from an actual broadcast.
NoeLPZC 11 months ago
@NoeLPZC I really don't see how it matters if he used an authentic person expressing this belief or not. In the end is it not exactly what religious fundamentalists are thinking and saying? What does the source he used matter?
adrenacrumb 11 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@adrenacrumb "In the end is it not exactly what religious fundamentalists are thinking and saying"
No it's not, because she's not a religious fundamentalist :P
"I mean if he used clips from a movie about MLK would you complain it isn't accurate because it isn't actually MLK himself in the movie?"
That would depend on whether the scene is fictitious or a recreation of an actual event. If they had MLK saying "I have a dream... THERE ARE STRIPPERS!" then yes it's inaccurate.
NoeLPZC 11 months ago
@adrenacrumb "In the end is it not exactly what religious fundamentalists are thinking and saying?"
No, because she's not a religious fundamentalist! :P
"I mean if he used clips from a movie about MLK would you complain it isn't accurate"
That would depend entirely on the clip. If it had MLK saying "I have a dream... it involves strippers for all!" I would say it's inaccurate.
NoeLPZC 11 months ago
@NoeLPZC Please tell me how she is misrepresenting the common Christian fundamentalist who claims God caused the earthquake. For your conjecture to make any sense you would have to show how she conflated the mentality of a fundamentalist.
adrenacrumb 11 months ago
@adrenacrumb "Please tell me how she is misrepresenting the common Christian fundamentalist"
The burden of proof is on YOU to show that she IS accurately representing the "common Christian fundamentalist".
"For your conjecture to make any sense you would have to show how she conflated the mentality of a fundamentalist."
No I wouldn't. She is not a fundie, therefore her actions DO NOT REPRESENT FUNDIES! It's very simple.
NoeLPZC 11 months ago
@adrenacrumb To use another analogy, let's say a group of nerds decide to parody frat boys. They host a massive kegger, get blind drunk and obnoxious, rape some girls, set fire to the campus, and get arrested. Is it fair for someone to point to this case and say "look how those horrible frat boys are out raping and setting fire to everything. Frat boys are total fags - let's berate them for being rapists"? No, of course not. You would have to point to an ACTUAL case of frat boys getting rapey.
NoeLPZC 11 months ago
@NoeLPZC I mean if he used clips from a movie about MLK would you complain it isn't accurate because it isn't actually MLK himself in the movie?
adrenacrumb 11 months ago
@adrenacrumb You can't claim religious fundamentalists are saying X because a person who appears to be but is in fact not a religious fundamentalists is saying X. If you want to claim religious fundamentalists are saying X you have to show AN ACTUAL RELIGIOUS FUNDAMENTALIST saying X. You can't say "this poe says God caused the Earthquake, therefore the people she's parodying are also saying God caused the Earthquake - how sick and twisted they must be!".
NoeLPZC 11 months ago
I disagree that from similarities we learn nothing. If the reaction is "I have never seen anything like this, this is not credible?" and "This may or may not be true, I have seen similar" this does encode potential information.
A troll alone indeed says nothing. But a troll in a socio-cultural context comments on it at least in some way.
That doesn't mean that TF's use of TTP's segment was good argument to say the least.
As for the video title: "This is your brain on stereotyping".
socrates856 11 months ago
yeah... I found his comment to be ignorant, to suggest that if she was an atheists that portrayed a religious fanatic so well, just shows how screwed up religious people are. I think his description came after the video, I think he wanted in on the attention.
girlpalooza 11 months ago
I see Jack Nicholson, and a most staggering performance... Not to mention a perfectly portraied Claudius by Patrick Stewart... Thanks for putting them together in one video... and calling Thunderf00t in the process :-) very much appreciated...
ProjectPaladin 11 months ago
good work man....atheists are getting exposed for the group think, herd mentality imbeciles that most of them are
TENNSUMITSUMA 11 months ago
@TENNSUMITSUMA Your comment is only true because most PEOPLE are "group think, herd mentality imbeciles". It's about as useful as saying "most atheists have two lungs".
There will always be sheep on both sides (ironically, this behaviour is somewhat encouraged on the religious side). To point the finger and say "look at those imbeciles!" is very much the plank-in-the-eye scenario Jesus warned you about.
NoeLPZC 11 months ago
@NoeLPZC
thats not the only reason my comment is true. here is the problem, atheists on average get on the nuts of religious people for being 'group think, herd mentality imbeciles' while hailing themselves as 'free thinkers'. yet as its being proven here and in other videos they are even more so than the people they ridicule for being.
TENNSUMITSUMA 11 months ago
What keeps religion going is faith. What keeps atheism going is... well, reality, evidence, those things that can only be avoided with faith.
n3rdm4n 11 months ago
The point of POE's law is that it points out the absurdities of the extremist religious beliefs by making them indistinguishable from the satire that follows them. Checl Nephillimfree's videos and VenomfangX's. These guys aren't faking it yet the satirical attempts to undermine them fall flat because it is impossible to increase the absurdity levels for the use of satire without veering from the subject.
sum1otosh1 11 months ago
how do you explain Glenn Beck then ? he about said the same thing that she did
cmsalvagio 11 months ago
UNFF, please remember who started it: are Pat Robertson, Peter Popoff and Kent Hovind all good actors too?
How do you draw the distinction between TamTamPam's vid about the Japanese earthquake being an answer to her prayers, and Robertson's claim that the Haiti earthquake happened because Haitians sold their souls to the devil?
There would be no satire if there wasn't something seriously messed-up to satirise.
Squagnut 11 months ago
Hopefully the Japan earthquake troll will wake people up to how reprehensible this ascendent form of atheism can be. Also, some of those image macros at the beginning were beyond idiotic. Richard Dawkins, et al, are getting rich by convincing people of mediocre intelligence that they're actually very clever.
stallion4life 11 months ago
Well said UNFFwildcard. I am an Atheist but I am no Thunderf00l. I am ashamed of the shit he comes up with. In fact I am extending my own faculty of shame over Tf00l for he has become indeed a shameless douche-bag.
graphattic 11 months ago
The thundertards should've commended TamTamPamela for her outstanding trolling.
Morrakiu 11 months ago
I would have ignored Thunderf00t a long time ago, but some how he has a large following which still agree with him on this stuff. That's what boggles my mind. I'm just agreeing with you on how ridiculous it is that this has to be explained to people.
owchywawa 11 months ago
Fiction throws up a mirror to reality, no?
gabiotta 11 months ago
So now it's your job mate to show how religion sniffs out these "crazy people" and deals with them.
Oh wait they don't and people like benny hinn, carl baugh get hundreds of millions of dollars. Tens of thousands of people go to places like liberty university where bullshit is taught and radio stations like the AFA thrive.
See the problem is you QQ about us making fun of jesus but you fail to realize how main stream these beliefs are.
chupamiubre 11 months ago 2
@chupamiubre
you might want to watch my video...before you run yout moth about
'So now it's your job mate to show how religion sniffs out these "crazy people" and deals with them'
TENNSUMITSUMA 11 months ago
@TENNSUMITSUMA I was not even talking to you nor do i give a fuck about you.
chupamiubre 11 months ago
@chupamiubre
i couldnt care less who you give a fuck about. simple fact is you said 'So now it's your job mate to show how religion sniffs out these "crazy people" and deals with them. Oh wait they don't....', and that is a lie as my video proves. you giving a fuck is irrelevant as its not required.
and you weren't talking to anyone or an @(username) would have appeared. its called replying to a comment genius. then there is the fact that you didnt say this shit to anyone else that replied 2 u
TENNSUMITSUMA 11 months ago
@chupamiubre No its not his job. He didnt say religion sniffs out the crazy people. Youre putting words in his mouth. And even though religion doesnt 'sniff' out crazy people, the lack of a religion doesnt do anything either, that is to say people will be crazy regardless of religion. Take away the blind/wacky devotion to God and you'll get a blind/wacky devotion to something else to fill the void.
Daxcheese 11 months ago
@chupamiubre The beliefs may be mainstream, but that does not mean that if you go to many theological seminaries people like Benny Hinn and Carl Baugh will not have a listenable audience. If TF does not represent all of atheism, then these people do not represent all of theism. Atheism is a growing market for ignorance - theism just had a millennia with tighter political ties to get there.
Audiofalcon7 11 months ago
@chupamiubre Are you completely unaware that religious groups warn about people like Benny Hinn and such? So YES. We do deal with charlatans and deceivers who pervert the gospel for their own needs. The problem is, just like people who give doctors ulcers by buying into every kind of "medicine" that is peddled on TV, is that there are gullible people in this world.
Just as you can't fool all the people all of the time, you can't save them all of the time either.
DecKrash 11 months ago
@DecKrash They must be doing a shit job because when people like Lou Engle gets 400,000 people to attend his batshit crazy meetings you having got to be doing it wrong. The facts are you do not govern your own.
chupamiubre 11 months ago
@chupamiubre So what's the problem with science, when they can't get thousands to millions of people every year to stop taking quack medicines? Don't make it look like it's a religion's fault for not doing fire control. People are gullible, and will do what they want. It's not any religion's job to make people make the right decision. We can only show them the right way, and leave the deciding up to them.
DecKrash 11 months ago
@DecKrash Yes because atheism and health care go together. The problem is magical thinking.
Also ever stop and think maybe religion is not leading them down the right path?
chupamiubre 11 months ago
@chupamiubre "...atheism and health care go together."
Um... WTF??? A great deal of hospitals are founded and run by religious institutions. Do your research, man!
And no. By what you just said, you can say the same thing about science leading people down the wrong path. Like snake oil salesmen of olden days and frivolous medicines of nowadays misusing people's ignorance science and medicine, charlatan televangelists and cultists misuse ignorance of truth and faith to deceive many.
DecKrash 11 months ago
I should add that, anthropologically, "sanity" is a social construct. e.g. while the sadhu monks of hindu culture who drink from skulls and undertake self-mutilation are viewed as "normal" in their own culture, they would most likely be viewed as "insane" in, say, Kansas City or some places in the Bible Belt. This doesn't really diminish your point, however, and I should also add that this is probably one of the best response I've seen to Thunderf00t. ;)
jcrebel18 11 months ago
I think Thunderf00t using this troll as an excuse to attack religion, but then saying her being a troll or not isn't relevant to his argument really tells you a lot about the state of our so called "rational thinkers" today. Just look at TF's thunderflock! They don't see how irrational their attack on religion is. It's insane.
thunderbolt94 11 months ago
I really couldn't tell that she was just trolling, because there has been other religious people making similar claims in the past. For example, wasn't there a pastor that claimed that the disaster of hurricane Katrina was due to God punishing some lesbian comedian in New Orleans? Tamtampamala's trolling was believable because it had a certain air of plausibility. I don't think Atheists claim to be able to see through every kind of fraud, we understand that our thinking can be led astray.
helical4 11 months ago