KC Breed Standard - Tibetan Mastiff

[AD49938]

wow...this kind of voice is knocking me down...it seems an absolutely bored talker!!!!

Would you like to put a little more interest in it? Seems you are reading the telephone user´s list

[LeDobermann88]

very good and educative video ... thanks :)

[K9TMD]

Thanks Dobe

[sandychanchan04]

I think China is trying to confirm a standard of the TM nowadays and that's really different from the Europe and UK,the Chinese are arguing of the TMs which look like a lion is pure or not.The TM in 0:33 is the best but the gold one looked a little strange from the others.

[IMOZZA]

no way good enough. So back to what I originally said I just hope the Tibetan Mastiff isnt ruined like all the other working dogs by the KC breeders supposed codes of practice.

[IMOZZA]

unfortunately has become more important to the UK and US breeders. As a result of this 'line breeding' ("Disgusting!!") has become common practice to get this 'true type' or 'show type' dog. My own personal experience of how this creates problems is coming from a gamekeeping background where we breed working type labrador, spaniel, bull mastiff and doberman. The way the dogs look and perform are just so much better than KC dogs which we simply couldnt use because there health is -

[K9TMD]

With dobes, labs, bullis and spaniels you have one major advantage over TMs....you have got a vast choice of breeding stock, literally thousands to choose from. Imagine, then, if your choice was as limited as it is in such a rare breed as the TM. Only 25-50 pups born EACH YEAR!. I travelled 1700 miles in 2001 to find a stud dog in Alsace for my bitch, and more than that in 2003 to Slovakia (by road) to do likewise. To try and get new blood, but there were still some relatives in ancestry

[IMOZZA]

Sorry didnt explain those thousands to choose from we dont want in our program!  They are not good enough for the job. Maybe good enough for a pet home but not to retrieve, beat, guard, etc. So the choice on 'good' stock is somewhat limited. I appreciate the TM stock is probably way worse but what Im trying to convey is I love the TM breed because of its large size coupled with good health, even temperament, stunning looks the WHOLE current package but I can see breeders trying to

[IMOZZA]

push the limits when its just not needed and ruining the breed.

For me it should be healthy dog TiCK strong bone tiCk good worker TIcK Good balance for breed tIck. But getting into exact specifics about colour of nose and aesthetic features is complete bollocks! I saw a beautiful strong bone topline well balanced ALL tan TM male in Spain with a grey nose now should he be discounted because of his nose colour!!? NO WAY overall he was an amazing specimen and from talking to

[K9TMD]

The all tan male you saw was probably a very nice gold, and that is included in our standard. A dog with a dilute nose would not be penalised or disqualified if it had all the other strong qualities as you describe anyway, that is only a very small part of the standard

[K9TMD]

It is obvious that we both have to agree to disagree Imozza. Whilst I respect your opinion, I still fail to understand how you can possibly describe ANY breed of dog without having some sort of written guildeline? Call it a breed standard, a description or whatever you like, new people coming into ANY breed have to have some kind of guidance into what the dog looks like. My argument is that, without anything written down, anybody can guess at what THEY think the breed should be................

[K9TMD]

........ and you would surely end up with such wide variations in each breed they would be unrecognisable. So in your own breeds, and I mean WORKING dogs not showdogs, do you gamekeepers not have some sort of written description to describe what you think your lab, spaniel dobe etc should be????

[IMOZZA]

I was watching send in the dogs programme the other day and just caught the narrator saying about the g shepherd, "born and red by the greater manchester police" proving working type has to be created by themselves not from the KC breeders just something else to ponder and show its not just us gamekeepers that feel this way.

I leave it at that anyway mate nice talking to you good luck with it.

[K9TMD]

Yeah, actually my wife's cousin used to be a dog handler with the police, and bred quite a few GSD's to provide to the force. And YES, I gotta admit, they were true straight backed dogs, not like the sloping showdogs one sees nowadays. My own GSD when I was a kid had also a level back and was big, thats how i remeber all alsations in those days. So I do agree about what you say some breeders are doing, and I dont like it either.

[IMOZZA]

the owner an amazing worker. Thats the issue here too many breeders in UK/US because of the way the clubs have operated for so long dwell on looks rather than health and ability.

Like the dogs at your house they may bark guard snarl and make me think otherwise but in the showring this means nothing because these qualities are not assessed or taken into account at all!

[K9TMD]

Well if a dog was barking and snarling and guarding it would not be and should not be in the ring anyway.

[IMOZZA]

Tibet may not have a breed standard but they know what works in terms of working ability and whats healthy. After all they created the dog!! After thousands of years of domestication and work. I personally prefer this to what looks nice.

I agree with your statement that there should be guidelines and codes however health and welfare should be paramount and not what it should looks like which

[K9TMD]

I am just wondering what you consider "working ability" in a TM? The TM was only ever bred for one purpose-to guard and bark abs NOTHING else. I can aasure you that is what they still do in the west, if you came round to my house you would see what I mean

[rockychinchilla]

can i ask why does the KC not keep to the terbet breed Standard for this breed ?? suely its better as they know there dog's the best ! why the hell did they go to the USA club for the standard they f**k everything up as do the UK now

[K9TMD]

The "TERBET breed standard"...what on earth is that? IF you actually are trying to say TIBET (I am guessing here), then you ought to know that there is no kennel club or breed standard in Tibet, never has been. And the UK did NOT go to the USA club either, the TMC GB formulated their own breed standard, nothing to do with ATMA. Maybe a bit more research is called for rocky?

[rockychinchilla]

SORRY THERE IS NOT NEED TO BE RUDE i was only asking you something about the breed MAYBE YOUR NOT THE RIGHT PERSON TO ASK THEN !!! am sorry i got the spelling wrong maybe that has something to do with my Dyslexia please forgive me (but then again i dont need to ask you to forgive your the one that was rude ) !!!! so in TIBET there is no standard at all for these dogs ??

[K9TMD]

I was not actually rude, but confused.Also it was YOU not me who decided to use the expletive F**K , so maybe that was inevitably going to set the tone of any reply. The answer to your question is no, there is no kennel club therefore no breed standard in Tibet. One needs to understand that they do not breed and register dogs the way we do here in Europe, The UK and US.

[rockychinchilla]

You was rude but maybe that just the kind of person you are ! sorry i use to work f**k OMG coz you never use words like that before have you !!! what ever i dont care i will go to someone else about the breed and will also be taking you OFF my friends list on facebook !!!!!

[Cuvac]

Rocky, nice to see that you also see through losers like this person.

CaneCorso game-pit super-corso is still in your list though! :)

2bad people spoil ancient races and breed them into nothing more then showitems.. bye bye TM!

[rockychinchilla]

Hiya mate yeah i see through people like this all them time !! and KC breeder's in my eyes are rude evil and not very nice people at all !! thats why am hope i never get my breed KC reg just because i cant be doing with people like this i have better things to do ,like put hot pins in my eyes !!....LOL

[markdon16]

5 stars*****

[K9TMD]

You have evidence of the TM being ruined by breeders in the UK then? Please tell us the facts. It would also be interesting to hear which pure natural working breed YOU are involved with Imozza! Please do educate us!

[IMOZZA]

Who ever said TM was ruined - YET!! You dont have to be an expert although I am a gamekeepers son and seen the difference between working stock and 'show' type among spaniels, bull mastiffs, german shepherds (- a PRIME EXAMPLE with its show type sloping back - disgusting!!) and the list goes on. I want a working breed not one that looks good I know what I like and what works and show type breeders have ruined the existing working type breeds in the UK. And if you are a TM breeder lets hope

[K9TMD]

Well I do agree with some of your comments, esp regarding the GSD-the show dogs I have seen nowadays look almost crippled to me, and the Rottweilers seen in show rings, well adults look tyhe size of puppies. However, this has NOT happened with the TM, being a natural ancient unaltered breed.Considering there are only about 300 in the UK, and ONLY about 25 - 50 pups born each year, one can hardly accuse the TM people of over breeding and ruining or altering the breed.

[K9TMD]

and were it not for a dedicated small band of enthusiasts importing the TM into the western world, this breed wouldd almost certainly have become extinct by now. Are you one of those narrow minded people who watched the TV documentary last year about pedigree dogs and suddenly decided that ALL pedigree dogs and breeders were freaks? Ther Tibetan Mastiff club take the health and welfare of the breed very serioulsy indeed, and produce a code of ethics for breeders to follow

[K9TMD]

IF you are advocating that our breed, or any breed for that matter, should not produce a breed standard as a guideline for breeders , then what is the other option? NO breed standard, NO code of ethics, no guideleines whatsover for people to be guided by? Just leave it to backstreet breeders to breed anything and everything they individually desired? Just breed it big and vicious because thats what they THINK the TM should be in its native homeland? No thoughts given to health and welfare?

[IMOZZA]

you dont follow suit and keep to the narrow minded piece of paper on what a TM should look like and not how it can do its job. I have with my father bred the Giant Schnauzer, Springer spaniel and rottweiller all for working ability. So what are your credentials apart from probably being a 'SHOW TYPE BREEDER'!?

[Cuvac]

bulls eye!

[markdon16]

This was Andy , news at ten nr leeds. :))))

seriously though, good overview of the TM !!!!!

[IMOZZA]

KC hahahahahaha!!!! You make me laugh they ruin breeds the sooner working qualities are recognised not show qualities the better!! And proper working breeds like the Tibetan wont be ruined by the breeders in our country