Bomb blast in Derry city centre 21 May 2011

[KeithPalmer115]

R.I.P. Santandar

[zDarylHD]

i cant beleive people support the I.R.A they just cause trouble. planting bombs etc. they are just a terrorist group like al quoada or the taliban with less weaponry. the I.R.A have killed a lot of british soldiers but they have killed more catholics than anyone else the end. now stop arguing and be like a normal city and try to get along. FUCK SECTARIANISM

[thecraighi]

A few reasons. Firstly because your are arguing a point which is clearly incorrect so you are either playing devils advocate for the sake of a lively debate or you're a deluded, dogmatic unionist. in which case i have no intrest in speaking with you because your opinion will never change. Secondly, you are being disingenuous with your information and comparisions to certain historical events.I think you are trolling or completely mental but if you fit into another category please enlighten me

[bweber2k]

How many years will it take to get the London terrorist gov out of Ireland?

[shanepowermurphy]

well its a catholic country would you still cause trouble if you and your people were being treated as second class citizens and your culture destoryed and land taken over by the brittish.wounds heal but scars still mark the skin

[mofobrofoshoable]

@shanepowermurphy

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOK mate, so you support these chaps. The so called "real IRA" have killed more of your fellow catholics than the so called "culture destroyers"

[zDarylHD]

@shanepowermurphy what does it matter of your religion and catholics have equal rights to protestants infact more catholics are in londonderry than protestants. Yeah british people stole the land but thats history now just forget it.

[TheLongfords]

them catholics still causing trouble

[folklore]

I was there just a month before :(

[Paddy234]

@KieranWardCFC Why is your anger aimed at fellow Irish men and women and not the British government that refuses to leave after all occupation breed's resistance and not all Irish men and women will be walked over

[elcomcf]

@Paddy234 Definitely not the way to try to end so called british occupation by using bombs lads, if anything it'll make it worse!  In all fairness...you need to be politically represented at a table

[Paddy234]

@elcomcf Bomb's denormalize the North and shatter the idea that the North of Ireland is just like any normal area in Britain. It has been used by Republican's since the 1800's for this tactic however it is one of many tactic's. Armed struggle is legitimized by the Irish proclamation which defend's anyone who resist's Britain through the use of arm's. I think people shouldn't get caught in the propaganda and focus their anger against the Nation which is responsible for the conflict in Ireland

[revron77]

@Paddy234 And paddy ill come and put an 9mm in your kids shull and then call it political. See you fucking call that justified.

No idea should ever involve a child being killed.

And if you think otherwise then people like you should be exterminated not only from Ireland but the world.

Also like to say. Ireland is in debit to the EU and who controls the majority of the EU? the British...... so if we even changed the border today. You would be retarded to think anything had changed.

[revron77]

@Paddy234 Anger at my fellow Irish man. Wise up, this is not about borders this is about the blood of the innocent being abused.

This is not a crime of political reason, an army attacks targets matching a cause, an army does not attack civilians. These are terrorists, FULL STOP

Are you are an IDIOT of the highest order if you think for one second that changing a border removes British control. Under the eyes of the EU and International Fund the RoI sold out its people to Britain years ago

[Paddy234]

@revron77 This was NOT an attack on any civilian's, what are you talking about. Also i believe when Ireland become's one unit then it will be the job of Republican's to convince the people that THEIR interest's is not in pro globalist capitalist society, it will not be easy as the people have been manipulated by the Status quo but at least they are doing something about it whether it be protesting, selling newspaper's etc to highlight the reality of the situationand not just complaining about it

[revron77]

@Paddy234

Ok, let me get this into your head

Civilians inside bank

Terrorist has the choice to pose harm towards them by placing an IED inside the bank

Action carried out

Police SAVE people and IED goes off

Actions of Police saved kids lifes, Terrorist made actions that could of killed children if not without the actions of the Police.

Terrorists bad guys

Police good guys

Not based on anything poltical my friend, but the fact the Police saved people

[Paddy234]

@revron77 Haha what? The RIRA went into the bank, warned people that the bomb would explode in an hour, it's intention's therefore was not against civilian's. The Brit's aren't the good guy''s and your are obviously a Loyalist who is coming out with this, it is their occupation in Ireland which the majority does not want which spawn's such resistance therefore focus your anger on the root cause of the conflict

[revron77]

@Paddy234

One, never have been a Loyalist

Two, Great great great....... grandfather singed the warrant for genocide on the King of England

Three, I am a Republican. But not one of Ireland. The Irish Republic is a decrease to the real ideals of a true Republic. I follow the paths of those who made the great Republics of all time. The Republic of Rome for example

Four taking a bomb into a civilian area no matter its timer can kill. Under any number of circumstances. Thus could kill

[Paddy234]

@revron77 All war can kill, the blame lies with those who invoked the conflict not with those who use resistance which is to be expected

[revron77]

@Paddy234 Right

So you’re a strong Christian but you can’t even apply it to your own life. So what your saying is, those who provoke it deserve this.

So what your saying is also Jesus is a lair and is fully wrong when he comes across a woman who PROVOKES a crowd, they get ready to stone her and Jesus says. The person who has not sinned throw the first stone. But the point is, even if she provoked them, they are sinners and taking such action is hypocritical.

And would Jesus use a bomb?

[Paddy234]

@revron77 I do have strong Christian view's and would also be very conscious of the "just war theory" however what you are talking about is completely different, this is the occupation of a nation thus resistance against it is morally acceptable

[revron77]

@Paddy234 No part of the bible says that. You are not a man of God. Jesus would never pick up a weapon against his fellow man. But you form your own morals outside of the church and try to justify it.

Jesus never said "In the case of a occupation of a nation resistance is morally acceptable"

And do you really think God cares about a few lines on a map? NO, thats a man made concept.

Killing is morally wrong in the eyes of god and if you try to defend that you will burn in hell.

[Paddy234]

@revron77 First off i am a Catholic and you should read about the "just war theory" and also the Jew's went to war with those that were a threat to it's Nationhood. Murder is wrong in the eye's of god which is killing unjustly, there is certain time's when war is morally acceptable such as ww2 for example

[xxksaoXX]

@Paddy234 Dont compare the IRA's murders with WW2. Under no circumstances were what the IRA did morally acceptable.

[Paddy234]

@xxksaoXX The IRA resisted an occupation the same as the French and other's did throughout history. A Nation that committed genocide in Ireland and unlike Germany got away with it so the IRA have/had EVERY right to defend their homeland

[xxksaoXX]

@Paddy234 Firstly, what state-sanctioned Genocide was committed in Ireland? (History test for ya). Secondly we are not under occupation. The majority of the people of Northern Ireland want to remain part of the UK. That is why we are still under a Union flag, not because we have it imposed on us.

If anything, people have the right to defend their homeland (NI) from the IRA.

[Paddy234]

@xxksaoXX First with Oliver Cromwell, then with the penal law's. A British general during the 18th century even stated it was easier to kill and Irishman than a dog. Also there is no such thing as NI. A majority that consist's of 2 counties in the North who have a Unionist view is what divide's Ireland. The majority of Ireland once voted for independence, only 4 counties were against it yet Britain divided it. As i said currently that only a majority mainly in 2 counties are against it

[xxksaoXX]

@Paddy234 Sorry lad but you are wrong. Firstly, Northern Ireland is a seperate country. Not only does it a different culture, ethnic identity and to extent its own language it is also recognised as a constituent country of the UK by the vast majority of UN nations, including the republic. The majority of the population of the six counties want to remain part of the UK, that is a fact and you are insane if you are to refute it.

It is also irrelvant what the RoI want, we are not part of RoI.

[Paddy234]

@xxksaoXX No it is not, only a majority in 2 counties would hold this view and the Tri color represent's both people's Green AND Orange. The majority of the Irish people do NOT recognize NI as you call it and wouldn't use it's terminology. Ulster scot's is a slang not a language and an embarrassing one at that. Also as i said a majority in 2 of the 6 counties today would hold pro unionist view's. I take it then you would accept if 4 counties where Nationalist's are the majority to break off??

[xxksaoXX]

@Paddy234 And the Union flag represents Britain AND Ireland. The fact is the Irish Republic and the majority of the countries in the world recognise Northern Ireland, and they do use the term.

I am sorry, but you are wrong. Out of the whole population of Northern Ireland, the majority of them want to remain part of the UK. However if we are going to go by the counties with a unionist or nationalist majority, you would only have Tyrone, Fermanagh and maybe Armagh.

[Paddy234]

@xxksaoXX Recent election's showed the majority of Derry, Armagh, Tyrone and Fermanagh are Nationalist majority. Now i don't recognize partition nor do the Irish people as being legitimate however since you do would you then accept if the 4 counties reunified with the south?

[xxksaoXX]

@Paddy234 Well the actual data, from electoral commission, which I suggest you go and look at says otherwise. Londonderry has a unionist majority, and Armagh is pretty much divided beliefs.

No I would not accept it. I do not want to see my country torn in half.

It would be a unification with the south, not re-unification. Remember until British rule commenced, there was no United Ireland.

[Paddy234]

@xxksaoXX There was ONE Ireland before England arrived consisting of 4 king's and one high king over all Ireland. Britain divided it and your comment therefore is pure hippocrisy to say you wouldn't accept it yet the People of Ireland were forced to when the majority of Ireland voted for independence as ONE unit which Britain denied

[xxksaoXX]

@Paddy234 A High King, being the head of the most powerful Kingdom in Ireland. However, the other Kingdoms are forced to be subservient to High King. You see in Irelands history after the death of the High King, there is quite a long period before the new comes to the fore; sometimes with a gap of over 100 years. Each of the Provinces of Ireland were Kingdoms, Countries in their own right! Britain united them, and the Kings gave their consent for this to happen. Learn your history!

[Paddy234]

@xxksaoXX Ireland was ONE nation consisting of different kingdom's ruled by king's. The high king was given authority and respected by the entire people and king's of Ireland although this was not always the case. However with King's like Brian Boru who strived to unify Ireland under one rule but failed proved that it was a struggle. England also wasn't united until the 10th century. In 1916 however the Republic was declared which the majority of Ireland as one unit would later support.

[xxksaoXX]

@Paddy234 No not at all. It was seen as many different nations. The respect and authority was given to the High King out fear of reprisals, that is it.

In 1916, the declared had the support of a lot of the South, not the North. You are twisting historical facts to support your own beliefs.

[Paddy234]

@xxksaoXX It was not seen as different nation's but kingdom's. Japan was the same, during the time when there was no Shogun it would have different ruling clan's however they still regarded the whole Island as Japan as did the Irish to Ireland. Also only 4 counties were against it in the North as Ireland did so as one unit so for Britain to divide Ireland was democratically wrong. You yourself even said you wouldn't accept if such a thing was done in the 6 counties which is sheer hipporcrisy

[xxksaoXX]

@Paddy234 It was nothing like Shogunate Japan. Japan was seen as one country under an Emperor while Ireland was seen as many different nations making up the island. If you want something to compare it with look up the history of: Ancient Greece, The Italian States, Yugoslavia and to an extent China.

[Paddy234]

@xxksaoXX Of course Ireland was seen as one country as i already mentioned the High king would of been seen as the ruler or attempted ruler of ALL Eire which Ulster, munster, leinster and connaught are a part of. Yes at times there was chaos and no high king and other time's where there was conflict between different ruler's who wanted to rule all Ireland. However that is past and most Irish people claim their allegiance to the Republic and did so as one unit

[xxksaoXX]

@Paddy234 No they weren't seen as one country.

But anyways there was not always chaos when there was no High King, there were many times of peace in those periods. Because frequently the High King would try and unify the whole of Ireland under his rule.

Anyways, do I have to go back to my earlier point that the North was and always has been Unionist?

[Paddy234]

@xxksaoXX Ireland or properly called EIRE was alway's the name give to this island that is pre Christian. It is EIRE that ruler's tried to control as one unit in which some succeeded. Also the North has only been unionist from the plantation's and and the majority of those Unionist's would reside in the North East of the 6 counties. Just because 4 counties were against what the Irish people wanted as a whole does not mean Britain is right in occupying the 6 counties

[xxksaoXX]

@Paddy234 Who are you to decide what it's properly called?

And anyway the plantations are irrelevant to this discussion. Every person who claims to be Irish, will have British ancestry, whether they like it or not, this is because there has been so much immigration between the islands.

Anyways, the British are not occupying the Northern Ireland. We are part of Britain, democratically and legitimatly, so stop using the word occupying because it is not correct.

[Paddy234]

@xxksaoXX Eire is simply Irish for Ireland. Listen there is no point tracing our ancestory back as it could be here, England, Spain whatever through thousand's of year's.What matter's is that the people who live in Ireland and whom are loyal to their homeland are Irish and wish to build a better Ireland for all.The Tri color and Republic is the perfect example of a New EIRE consisting of both people's united as one creating our own future.Democratically Ireland desire's to be unified as a whole

[xxksaoXX]

@Paddy234 It wouldn't be 1000 years, more 100.

By holding my unionist beliefs, I am being loyal to my Irish homeland. Whether you like it or not, Northern Ireland, benefits from being part of the UK, and therefore more people do.

If you truly wished to build a better Ireland for all, you would want continued unification with Britain.

Britain and Ireland are brothers, we should be united together rather than apart. I know the meaning of the Tri-colour, but it does not have the support of us.

[PhobicPyro]

@xxksaoXX No, the UK is an imperialist force of the Capitalist West, not Ireland's brother

[whitbyjet65]

@PhobicPyro But you were happy to take our money when we bailed you out, yet again. Funny how you hate us but come running cap in hand when you're in the shit.

[PhobicPyro]

@whitbyjet65 Did I ask for that bailout? No I didn't. Did I accumulate the national debt? No. The debt is a result of excess and greed, I hold the ruling class responsible and to a lesser extent the middle class.

Ireland didn't come running to you or any British person, they went to the British government at Westminster which has nothing to do with Ireland or the occupied 6 counties

[whitbyjet65]

@PhobicPyro You talk shit! Ireland asking the British government for money has nothing to do with Ireland????? How come you failed that audition with the Muppets? Were you too ridiculous for the show?

[whitbyjet65]

@PhobicPyro And why is the national debt the fault of the ruling classes & the middle classes? That's a very patronizing thing to say. Are you suggesting working class people aren't responsible enough to make decisions? Shame on you! Six occupied counties? Yes, they're occupied by Irish people who want to remain part of the UK.

[xxksaoXX]

@PhobicPyro Its not an imperialist force; it is protecting the will of the majority of people in the North. Ireland and Great Britain are islands that share so much culture and history as well as that we are bloody related anyway. The UK and RoI have been one country in all but name in so long.

[PhobicPyro]

@xxksaoXX No, as an Irish person I can tell you that Ireland and Britain have very little in common culturally.

How can you prove that Britain is not an Imperialist force? That's what it is, with over seas territory around the world and an ongoing conflict in Afghanistan and the Middle East as well as taking part in the NATO persecution of Libya it is noting more than an Imperialist force.

[xxksaoXX]

@PhobicPyro Lad, I'm British/Irish living in the North and we share a huge amount of culture and history. Even the legal and political system of the Republic is based on the British system (Westminster System).

I dont need to prove that Britain isnt an imperialist force, the facts are there support me. Britain isnt imposing its rule on Northern Ireland or on its overseas territories it has the democratic mandate to do so. All public consultations has asked for continuing British rule.

[clodaghmxo123]

@xxksaoXX shut the fuck up

[xxksaoXX]

@clodaghmxo123 Why should I? Is that the kind of discrimination I would face for having unionist sympathies in a united Ireland?

You are displaying one of the many reasons why the North should remain a British territory.

[thecraighi]

@xxksaoXX Its funny when Unionists try to play the victim. Your politcal opinions are directly against the wishes of the Irish people who are the original and rightful occupants of this Island. Your people have also been responsible for the marginalisation of a massive section of the population and the sectarian murders of Civil rights workers before the provisional ira where informed.

[xxksaoXX]

@thecraighi To an extent, we are the victims! We are constantly demonised around by the media for the actions of a minor section of the community. We are the majority in the North and always have been, that is why NI is still part of Britain. My political opinions are representative of the majority of the Northern Irish, whether the south likes it or not. Who are you to dictate who are the original or rightful people of Ireland? We all have British ancestry despite what republicans say.

[thecraighi]

@xxksaoXX I really hope you are trolling. You are demonised because of your actions as a group in the past and rightly so. You were given control of a country as a group and you abused your power and it wasnt a minor section of your people. the UDA had 50,000 members at a point for fuck sake. As for the original and rightful people of Ireland? They are called the Irish hence the name Ireland.

[xxksaoXX]

@thecraighi Sorry but I'm not trolling, I educating you about the truth. The Unionist community as a whole is not responsible for actions of a particular group. Should you demonise all Germans for what Hitler did? Or should you demonise the Russian's for what Stalin did? No because it would be wrong to. What you said about the UDA is irrelevant (and clearly copied&pasted off wikipedia) the IRA was much larger during its peak being at least 200,000 members during the insurgency against Britain.

[xxksaoXX]

@thecraighi "As for the original and rightful people of Ireland? They are called the Irish hence the name Ireland." That does not argue anything. So what if they are called Irish, anyone can be Irish.

Every single person who claims irish ancestry or being irish has a significant British ancestry our cultures are intertwined as are our histories. I am a perfect example of this, being the son Irish Republican and a Scotsman.

On a final note, swearing does not add to your arguement at all.

[thecraighi]

@xxksaoXX Go fuck yourself. If you are seriously trying to argue that the irish arent the original inhabitants of ireland then you are beyond reason. Also you might want to respond to a whole comment instead of picking asmall part of it that you think you might sort of be able to argue with. "Every single person who claims irish ancestry or being irish has a significant British ancestry our cultures are intertwined as are our histories" thatsok if you're a half a jaff but i have no british blood

[xxksaoXX]

@thecraighi Firstly I would like to draw your attention to my comment "On a final note, swearing does not add to your arguement at all." If you are unable to talk to someone (and by that I mean a fellow Irishman) civilly, how on earth do you expect a united Ireland to function or exist in peace?

What part of your comment have I missed?

[xxksaoXX]

@thecraighi If you honestly believe that you have no British ancestry I suggest you look into your family history. People from Britain have settled in Ireland and vice versa since the dawn of time. Even in recent history has been a significant movement of people between our islands.

Look at the history of Ireland, and you will see that I am right.

[thecraighi]

@xxksaoXX i just looked into my family history. Just found out im adopted and im actually Austrian now i feel foolish.......

[xxksaoXX]

@thecraighi I must admit, I am surprised how quickly you managed to look up your family history (mine took a great deal of research on the behalf of my father and grandfather) but good on you.

Out of interest, are you going to inform @topgeezer111 of your mistake?

[thecraighi]

@xxksaoXX ofcourse, everyone has to know. Spread the info to your troll friends for me

[xxksaoXX]

@thecraighi What basis do you have to think I am a troll, do you find it difficult to understand the points I am making? If so I can attempt to make it simpler for you.

[patjoethebaker]

@xxksaoXX so true

[PlayCodxX]

@xxksaoXX Very late response, I know (8 months...eek) but anyways, the reason it is a Unionist occupied country is because of British plants a long time ago, this is pretty well known and accepted. If there were no British plants to make it so, it would not be a Unionist country.

[xxksaoXX]

@PlayCodxX And if the Irish king of Ulster hadn't invaded Scotland and founded the kingdom of Dl Riata, Scotland would still have a Pictish culture rather than a Gaelic one. What should only matter is what the people living in particular place wish, and in the case of Northern Ireland, it is to remain part of the union.

Fact of the matter is, Britain and Ireland are genetically, historically and culturally intertwined and no amount mud slinging will change that.

[revron77]

@Paddy234 Now I have a question

You do understand that in the eyes of the world, Ireland is owned by the UK no matter what based on their massive debit towards the UK?

[Paddy234]

@revron77 They are not owned by the UK and Britain relies on Ireland more because of it's export's. Ireland was given a loan by Britain which i think the whole bailout thing is a disgrace but still they have to pay it off at interest. Britain is also in dept and there is little if no countries that isn't

[revron77]

@Paddy234

Paddy, Irelands debt to the UK is 1224% of its GDP

That means it is 2 trillion in debt to the EU Zone and the UK own the EU Zone........

So the RoI owe 2 Trillion to the british.

Without the help of the british right now Ireland would just be like Africa

UK Debt to EU is only 300 of it GDP Ireland is triple that.

Ireland is the EU/UKs bitch. Admit it....... irish men fucked up and now we are owned for life. And no bomb can fix that.

[Paddy234]

@revron77 Do you not see the silliness of the proclaiming the occupier to be the good guy in Ireland when it is this occupier that caused the conflict in Ireland which action's of resistance are currently. Your argument is as silly as someone arguing against the French resistance during ww2 for endangering civilian's in their attack's in which they did however this was against the German occupation therefore the root cause was with it, imagine someone then calling the German's the good guy's