Ekaterina Gordeeva - Sergei Grinkov LP 1994 Lillehammer Olympics

[molly1111115]

Natalia and Dmitriev did well in their olympic programs because they skated essentially as singles skaters and highlighted their singles skills as a pair. They were never the pair that G&G were. Perhaps you should also review the spectrum of G&G's performances to appreciate that no one before or since has rivaled their ability to skate pairs as though they were one.

[noevoe978]

But I'd just like to note that it's sad we have to go picking apart people's programs here on youtube instead of just enjoying Russian pair skating which we will probably never see the likes of again. In the end G&G are legendary. M&D were also amazing.

Why can't we just remember them fondly instead of bringing them both down by picking apart their programs in order to see who REALLY deserved to win when - in the end - there's nothing we can do or change.

G&G won. The end. Let's move on.

[noevoe978]

(cont.) Especially when you take G&G's program's difficulty into account.

[noevoe978]

(2/2) MD won the crowd - for what reason, I'll never know, but in the end, the judges r the people that need to be impressed & MD lost out because their elements were not up to par (easiest death spiral & lifts) & their presentation was rushed & clumsy.

Any1 arguing MD had no visible mistakes is just delusional. Look @ any of their lifts & D rushing @ the end of the program, 4 example. 2 things that affected their presentation. A slight bobble & singling a double is nothing in comparison.

[noevoe978]

(1/2) G&G, IMO, deserved the Gold. Everyone keeps arguing that D&M outskated them, but it just isn't true. It just isn't. G&G's program was more technically difficult with the most difficult lifts and death spirals executed perfectly. Yes, they struggled on their jumps, but one can also pick apart M's two-footed landing, D's rushing to keep up with M, their dismal lifts (which were easiest technically), and their overall lack of flow.

[Cirene71]

For me it's perfect to believe that M and D should have one, but not manipulating as I have seen here for years with for example the attempt to discredit the split twist of Gordeeva and Grinkov or the attempt to make people believe that the two pais had the same quality of skating. Sorry for my bad english

[Cirene71]

If the landing of the throw axel by Gordeeva wasn't clean, the triple toe of Dimitriev wasn't either. The 2 axel of M seems two footed. D had a notorius stumble on the step sequence. The split twist of M and D had a tight and unclean recepcion. The lifts of M and D were soooooo poor.

[DelusionalDarcy]

G&G are my favorite pairs team of all time. I'm not going to argue over who won because you can't change the past, although if I remember correct, I was surprised that they won. Anyhow, I will say that G&G are one of the greatest pairs teams of all time ,and no team over the past decade comes close to touching that certain je ne se qua they did.

[SuperRandyForever]

G&G unforgettable

[mameshiba83]

Nobody was ever better than these two. They made pairs skating look effortless.

[getsomelead]

GG skated effortlessly.... their moves look too easy because they make them look that way. they skated as one.....

[lahayea1000]

I thought these costumes were absolutely fantastic. So simple, yet so classy--and really timeless! They still look modern, despite being used in '88 and '94.

[mlc2005]

These two flowed better, without a doubt. But what's the point of having technical elements if you can make several mistakes and still win? M&D made no visible mistakes, whereas G&G did; the audience knew it here too. If MD had gotten higher tech. marks but still got 2nd, I'd be fine, as GG were "smoother" and more classical artistically.  But for them to get all 5.9s, I remember being ludicrous at the time.

[oravaskvirel]

Yep. The crowd would always know better. Throw professional judges to a garbage bin, all nine. Oops, eight: one judge from Belorus did want to put Natalia who also happened to be from Minsk first. But don't mention any favoritism here: it is the eight other judges who were either bribed by the wicked Moscow or don't understand a fig in figure skating. Fans know better.

[ravenel2]

I also find it interesting that when this competition aired, no one in America gave a hoot about which Russian pair came first--as the skating world was embroiled in a serious controversy involving Tonya Harding. It's become the culture since then to go online and vote and attack every hard-working athlete, actor, singer, etc., which is really unfortunate. No one then made a controversy out of this pairs competition, the way people are taught to do now when something doesn't please them.

[ravenel2]

God help the sport of figure skating. Not even judges go into this kind of flaw picking in the 4 minutes they have to enjoy a program. Almost touched the ice with her hip? Didn't "deserve" 5.9s, for two minor flaws out of everything that could go wrong? The judges watched it once, some put G&G first, some put M&D first. One pair hit the ice and had to withdraw--now THAT was a problem. Argue all you want about who "should" be first, but know that you'll likely never see two pairs this good again.

[gonzo77ffm]

we will never end the discussion

lets say : the best pairs event eve,r what for programs from the both russian team

[kookykrumbs]

Lloyd Eisler is such a sore loser! hahaha

[LovelySouthStar]

The crowd knew that M&D were better. You can hear it in the applause after they were introduced as the Silver Medalists,@the awards ceremony. Moscow had to get this one. Why, don't know. Believe I read somewhere in her book Ekaterina was bothered a little bit by M&D getting louder applause, more appreciation from the crowd. M&D were penalized because they weren't a happy family w/a baby.G&G even made mistakes in OP.That's why think Moscow had to win this one. Period.

[ants2876]

@LovelySouthStar Gordeeva & Grinkov have a way better triple twist, bigger throws with more flow, much better lifts than Natlia and Artur who have the easiest lifts of all the top pairs, more difficult death spirals. And while they didnt do invidual triple toes and had some small errors on the jumps both do big individual jumps while Natalia has smaller individual jumps. Not to mention they have more elegance, better line, more refinement, better edge quality, and more speed.

[LovelySouthStar]

@ants2876 difference of opinion. Natalia was a better looking filled out woman. She's aged better too.

It was a tragedy what happened to G&G. Perhaps that's why she didn't age well. Also don't think she's happy w/Kulik but M&D should've won here. Sorry.

[sytec99]

@LovelySouthStar

have you seen battle of the blades? you should, Katia is ageing beautifully, sorry but i don't see Natalia anywhere.......Any tip? Gordeeva is a celebrity!!!!

[LovelySouthStar]

@sytec99 a celebrity who hasn't aged well. Natalia is a successful coach in Hurst, Texas w/a four year old daughter, happily married to Alan Heinlein and looks gorgeous. Better hair, better teeth-much better teeth and a serenity @her that adds to her beauty.

[sytec99]

@LovelySouthStar Are you a dentist? I happen to be one......speaking about teeth :) Figure Skating and teeth

Ha ha ha. Sorry, nothing against Natalia, I'm sure she's doing good with her life, and Katia too. I have no right to judge themif they are happy or not. I can only give my opinion about the olympic program, about the skating of Katia today, and why she's invited everywhere....and I can also judge about her teeth ha-ha!

[LovelySouthStar]

@sytec99 A dentist @ 27? I'm glad you didn't work on MY teeth! ;) Ha ha ha. Gordeeva 's invited everywhere because she married a Gold Medalist and of course, there's sympathy there for her loss. She's ' invited ' everywhere: It's called promotion by an aggresive agent which is almost always a package deal. In other words, you invite THIS skater or the one you REALLY WANT doesn't come.

[noevoe978]

@LovelySouthStar I hope tearing down Katia's looks made you feel better.

[LovelySouthStar]

@noevoe978 It's not about making me feel better-imbecile! It's merely stating a fact.

She hasn't aged well and is my understanding, she is not very happy w/Kulik, either. Natalia is coaching in Texas now and is a beautiful woman. You feel the need to tear down the programs she and Dmitriev did? They won over the audience because of their showmanship, technique and artistry.

[noevoe978]

@LovelySouthStar Katia and Natalia are both very successful in their own right. And whether Ekaterina has aged well or not is a matter of opinion.

And I didn't tear down MD's program. I was simply stating the fact that G&G deserved the gold in Lillehammer. I'm not saying that MD are a terrible pair, actually, they are amazing, but G&G had them beat in presentation and technique in Lillehammer. That's just the way it is.

[muscleboi4use]

@LovelySouthStar She "hasn't aged well"? What on earth do you mean? Have you seen her recently as one of the professionals in "Battle of the Blades" - she is gorgeous!

[LovelySouthStar]

@muscleboi4use Read the previous post. You have your opinion, I have mine. She has not aged well. Period. Gorgeous?!?...give me a break! Her legs are awful for starters not to mention her teeth. and her too blonde,blonde,blonde hair!! She's 40 years old. Time to start looking her age.

[muscleboi4use]

@LovelySouthStar Wow,Yes, you do have an "opinion" - not a "fact" as you say below And calling people imbecile is rude. Katia looks great.But why do looks matter that ?much. Truth is talent matters there, both Natalia and Katia were/are incredibly talented sportswomen. '94 was a very close run thing. Judges also take into account edge quality and flow - often things that audiences don't get. No doubt both team were amazing here. Why the need to be so rude about Katia?

[LovelySouthStar]

@muscleboi4use And WOW!When are you having your next lecture?!You make a lot of assumptions yourself.You've no idea how long I skated.When someone posts an imbecilic remark, fairly good odds,they're an imbecilie.I suppose YOU'RE the only one who can post YOUR stupid opinions as facts,so do everyone a favor&go away.G&G weren't "perfect" in either the OP or LP as the very biased Scott Hamilton said they were.Everyone in the arena knew who the better pair was and it wasn't G&G.

[muscleboi4use]

@LovelySouthStar How long have you skated? What have I said that is imbecilic? Where exactly did I say G&G were "perfect"? Where have I stated any of my opinions as facts? Again, why the need to be so rude about Katia and so patronising to others? I am calling you out on your rude opinions on Katia's age, hair, legs and teeth (I'd love to see what you look like!) and, so naturally, you want me to "go away" and resort to insults. Once again, I am saying both teams are amazing.

[LovelySouthStar]

@muscleboi4use Are you a lawyer conducting some sort of deposition here? {" how, what,where,where again,why,"} Calling me out? Believe that's what Aaron Burr did to Alexander Hamilton in 1804 muscle brain.Everyone who has an account on yt can express an opinion.At any rate we're finished here.Go call out some guy and take your endless badgering somewhere else.It's people like you that are one of the MANY reasons I've elected not to have a photo on my yt acc't.

[muscleboi4use]

@LovelySouthStar Yeah sure, right, no photo... but you are free enough with your insulting opinions about Katia's looks and appearance aren't you? And, yes, well done you, you got my profession exactly right...

[LovelySouthStar]

@muscleboi4use Your profession?Oh yes...one of those paralegal certificates you can send off for in the mail.LOL!Actually there's no photo of me because you're nutty& bat shit insane enough to defend 'Katia's honor,' at any cost.Want to get really judgemental &keep this going Mr.paralegal...er Mr.lawyer? All I know is you like to badger women w/YOUR insulting remarks. What a guy! NOT!Most women wouldn't give you a look let alone the time of dayYou're nothing but a brainless bully.

[muscleboi4use]

@LovelySouthStar Goodness me you're rattled, aren't you! LOL. Why am I a bully? You are hurling insults, bullying, swearing and behaving like a troll, not me. I've not called you insane, I've not used swear words You are the one trying to denigrate other women like Katia. You sound terribly bitter, rude, lower class. I didn't even know you were female, after all you don't have a photo, you could have been male. This ends ends here. I wish you all the best.

[LovelySouthStar]

@muscleboi4use There's some more of that judgemental behavior from you again.Trust me: I don't need any of your BEST wishes. God only KNOWS what they are! More like NAGGING women, rather than bullying and badgering them. In any event, you can keep your best wishes. I'm doing just fine without them. Buh Bye...bully.

[meredithlynnbilhartz]

The landing on th flip would be taken off the artistic mark (probably why they didn't make several 6.0) because he did land the jump on 1 foot and didn't touch the ice with his hand. The single salchow would have been off the technical mark. I think 5.8 for technical and 5.9 for presentation was correct. M&D were great too but they had some tiny flaws as well like her 2 footed double axel, his slightly over-rotating the triple toe and then getting stuck in the ice during the step sequence.

[LLLLutz]

@meredithlynnbilhartz

Their mistakes weren't only on the jumps, but also on axel throw - she landed on toepick, the sbs spins - lost the unison twice and the hip lift didn't have great landing. Also, you have to take into account the fact there was only one triple jump- the throw salchow vs M&D three clean triples.

[bemar1972]

@LLLLutz But don't forget - pair skating is not only jumps! Watch the difficult lifts, unison in many other moves. ecc..

[LLLLutz]

@bemar1972 Right, their lifts were better, but that's it . They lost the unison on the side-by-side spins and on the jumps, the step seq was rather basic compared to M&D as well as their pair spin, she almost fell on the death spiral and overall the choreography lacked the difficulty and innovation that M&D had.

[stanhope84]

@LLLLutz What are you talking about? Katia almost falling out of a death spiral? That is absurd. G&G had two death spirals that were done perfectly. M& D only had one, and the easiest one, at that (Back Inside). G&G did forward inside and back outside. And you thinking a hand-held step sequence (G&G's) is less difficult than an individual step sequence (M&D)? You obviously haven't skated with a partner, otherwise you would know better.

[LLLLutz]

@stanhope84

G&G had two two DS - the first one, FiDs hardly had one circle and Katia did lost the body position during it - at the begining her body had almost a perfect shape, but during it she lost the tension and almost touched the ice with the hip. The second one was done much better and it was a harder one, but again too short - hardly one and a half circles. M&D had only one DS, but it was done perfectly - 2.5 circles and Natalia holded the shape perfectly.

[LLLLutz]

@stanhope84

Step sequence - G&G had only one short part of a hand-held steps, which is indeed a hard feature, but the rest was very basic steps done mostly on two feet. M&D had more difficult content, including twizzles, one-foot skating and upper-body movement- that was far ahead of their time. In addition, the steps reflected the character and accents of their music , while I felt like G&G could use their steps seq. in any program to any other music.

[stanhope84]

@LLLLutz Sigh...I'm trying to point out that two more difficult death spirals beat (in the judges eyes) one death spiral. I like M&D, I really do. But the judges CLEARLY went for G&G. I've said it before and this is the last time I'll say it: No one in the actual skating world (judges,coaches, skaters) debates this outcome - only fans on youtube. History has G&G as the winners - that is all that matters. G&G won, Artur has two golds now, Sergei's contributions live on past his tragic death.

[LLLLutz]

@stanhope84

You don't understand that one death spiral of 2.5 revolutions, perfectly done, does beat two DS, each of one revolution and with mistakes? Even if G&G had one of the spirals more difficult, it's still harder to do 2.5 revolutions (and cleanly, unlike G&G) in one spiral, than the same amount of revolution in two different spirals.

As to the outcome - many in the skating world debated the outcome -skaters, coaches etc.

[grafgirl27]

They were outskated by Miskutienok & Dmitriev and did not deserve the gold medal.

[Zuranthium]

@grafgirl27 They weren't as strong in technical merit but their presentation was absolutely better. They deserved to win on that mark. Their movement is just divine and the other pair didn't come close to having the same amount of unison or depth of soul.

[grafgirl27]

@Zuranthium but even their technical marks were higher. They did not deserve straight 5.9s for technical with several small mistakes.

[Zuranthium]

@grafgirl27 Yes, that's true. They were overmarked there for sure.

[sytec99]

@grafgirl27 This pair deserved the gold, the judges saw the difficulty of this program( speed, technique)that despite those slight mistakes of Sergei, the judges voted for them. M & D showed difficulties with the lifts, she looked soooo heavy!!! And Artistically? G & G are the best ever , past, present and maybe future

The Canadians aren't bad, but these two are just better.......

[osalemio]

thank you for sharing the high quality film!

Love G&G!!!