I suppose there is no point in wasting time and energy by hating Stephen's murderers. They are unintelligent idiots who have lied for 20 years. Sadly only two have been found guilty and imprisoned. But some justice has been done at last.
@cjtj8 You make a very interesting point. When you say 'people who ought to know better for lying', who do you mean?
I wouldn't entirely agree that Stephen's Case was hijacked by 'anti-racist zealots'. Stephen's murder was based on racial prejudice, yes, and therefore his murder put a spotlight on racism in society, in particular the Criminal Justice system.
Could you elaborate on what you mean by 'there being a bigger principle at stake'?
@EmeraldSuede The people who have made this programme.
It is full of half-truths and downright (rabble-rousing ?) lies.
For example Daly says that 'the establishment didn't want to know' and 'the police denied it was racist'.
The reality is that 'within hours' of the murder there was a press conference held at Woolwich police station which included DCI Illsley, the most senior policeman in that district, and the local MP. The MP talked of 'seeking meetings with Ministers' over the matter, and
@EmeraldSuede this was followed by a 'Police consultative committee meeting' which also included the MP from the neighbouring constituency. At the press conference DCI Illsley stated that 'the murder appeared to have a racial motive' - so the police linked it to racism right from the beginning.
The conflict with MacPherson came because the police refused to accept that it was 'unequivocally' racist (i.e. about nothing else)
The reason they said this was because they pointed out that the suspects
@EmeraldSuede had been involved in similar attacks on other people many of whom were white (the police contended that it was a mixture of thuggery and racism)
What evidence do you have to suggest that this murder put a spotlight on racism in society ?
Have you read the MacPherson Report ?
MacPherson didn't find 'one single shred of evidence' of racism against any of the investigating police officers(nor English society)
so they 'invented' a new type of racism,that is how they wee able to accuse
@cjtj8 You make very valid points. I'm afraid to say that I didn't know about the details you put in your answer. I believe society, as a whole body, isn't racist. It's some members within it that are.
@cjtj8 I believe that to a certain extent Stephen's murder case did put a spotlight on some of the racism of the fabrics of society. I believe the Criminal Justice system didn't treat his case seriously. The police only intervened to the best of their ability after they were prompted by Nelson Mandela. That's my evidence for racism in society.
But we do have evidence that shows that it put a spotlight on racism in society; the secret footage of his killers using racist epithets etc.
@EmeraldSuede I understand what you are saying EmeraldSuede but perhaps you make my point to some extent by your comment because, considering the unprecedented level of media coverage this case was subject to for almost 20 years, how could you NOT know these details ?
Answer: Because it has been so misrepresented by the news media etc (please see: Racist murder and Pressure Group Politics by Dennis, Erdos, and Al-Shahi - it is a very good insightful critique of the MacPherson Inquiry)
@cjtj8 I guess because of my age I haven't known about the full details you shared. I'm 20 and am studying Sociology. I appreciate your insight. Where did you gain this insight from? Thanks for the video suggestions.
@EmeraldSuede I read something that called the accepted narrative into question EmeraldSuede and then I decided to read the MacPherson Report and one thing led to another. Good luck with your studying ! I think we need to worry less about who belongs to which group, and just concentrate on being kind and respectful with each other - look for common ground rather than stress difference.
It is easier EmeraldSuede to send me a message via my 'inbox' because I keep running out of words here
@cjtj8 I have to step in and say you're talking rubbish.
Stop and search is a racist policy which has been applied indiscrimitately to blacks for many years. The disinterest of police in investigating racism over many years is also a matter of public knowledge. Thats what institutionalised racism is.
Also this isnt the only crime that has been reported long after the event. It was Jamie Bulgers birthday yesterday. I know becuase the media reminded me of it.
@gedt123 People discriminate for lots of reasons. Blacks, Women, Gingers, Irish, Polish. etc.... it happens every day. Racism is just one form
You're really coming here and really trying to say that racism does not exist in English society!? I'm not sure whether you are more of a fool or a downright liar.
You clearly have an agenda otherwise you wouldnt try to sell such disinformation.
@gedt123 Now, since there is a direct link between crimes like street robbery and stop and search, given the facts that I have stated here (you can do the checking) it is logical that 'black youths' are going to be stopped and searched much more than say chinese youths or white youths - I am not sure that I see the connection between this and the Stephen Lawrence murder though I must say. Anyway, I will leave you to it you sound like you are arguing with yourself, you carry on.
@cjtj8 what about Hillbourough? The yorkshire murders? madaline Mccann? Milly Dowler?
All of these cases remain unresolved in the public eye will stay in the public forum untill the are resolved to the satisfaction of the public. It has nothing to do with race baiting and everything to do with a percieved injustice. You seem to have a serious case of mindblindness when it comes to this case, or should that be colour blindness.
@gedt123 What about the weather ? what about the price of fish ?
What on earth are you blathering on about ??
What has anything you have said got to do with the Stephen Lawrence murder and all the politics that surrounded it ?? I will not waste my time engaging with you any further you oaf !!
@gedt123 Says who ? I am afraid you are wrong on almost everything you have said (if not everything). Black youths are MASSIVELY over-represented in crimes like street robbery - all the statistical evidence consistently confirms this, ever since it first hit the headlines in the 1970's - also, if you look at the evidence for 999 calls for things like street robbery (in London) the vast majority of callers identify the perpetrator for such offences as street robbery as being black.
Can't help but laugh when people try to defend there country for being non-racist but blame the media , just take a look below .Calling someone a Scottish twat , Irish c*nt and the last word referring to black people which i won't repeat ..Hmm well done @lolweiser does it make you feel the bigger man using profanity & racism? I'm only 14 but my view is thats Unacceptable , having a view is everyones right but your only contradicting the whole point of the stephen lawrence case - be less racist!
This wanker presenter call Nelson Mandela athe World's number 1 humanitarian er does he class terrorists who leave bombs at train stations humaniterian. What a media cxunt he is!!!!!!!!!!
Mark Daly is a scottish rat and Dwayne is a Rapist Monkey who tries so hard to sound smart but is on par with a white man trying to be hip really makes your toe curl. Dumb coon!
@cv003799 It is a 'documentary' full of 'half truths' and downright lies.
The whole process ultimately wasn't about Stephen Lawrence (who certainly didn't deserve to die like that) it was completely hijacked by the 'anti-racist pressure groups' and their chums in the media who completely distorted the story - as witness this (so-called) documentary.
Please read the MacPherson Report cv003799 if you want to know the real details; you won't learn much from this offering from 'chosen' Daly.
Because the MacPherson Inquiry didn't find ANY evidence of racism by ANY of the investigating police officers, they invented a new type of racism
This new type of racism was a racism that people committed 'unknowingly', and 'unwittingly' and typically the person on the receiving end didn't even know they had been a victim ..
Think I am making this up ?
Read the MacPherson Report
The existence of this racism that 'infected' the police and English society was unprovable either way - what a joke
At that initial meeting DCI Illsley immediately announced that 'it appeared to be a racial murder' - this is within hours of the murder !
The problem MacPherson had with the police was that the police wouldn't accept that it was 'exclusively' about race.
The police pointed out that the suspects had a history of having attacked other people in the same way, and that many of the other people were 'white'
The police maintained that race was an issue, but that it wasn't 'unequivocally' racist
The introduction to this 'documentary' is complete nonsense.
"An establishment that didn't want to know ..."
The reality is that a press conference was held at Woolwich police station 'the day after the murder' the conference was attended by DCI Illsley, the highest ranking police officer in the area in which the murder had been committed, the local MP talked of 'seeking meetings with government Ministers' etc
The idea that 'the establishment wasn't interested' is pure 'activist' fiction
The problem with the premise of this 'documentary' is that it is full of 'half-truths' and none of the (so called) evidence it claims to show has ever stood up in court.
Am I supporting these 5 young men ?
I am supporting the right of 'anyone' to a fair trial.
There is something deeply distasteful about the media (and their pressure group allies) campaign against 5 poorly educated youths.
In case anyone hadn't noticed there is an 'Appeal' expected now, and perhaps, just perhaps, the non-stop, all-consuming, news media campaign declaring their 'guilt' for almost 20 years could (in part) prove to be the undoing of the prosecution case.
Contrary to many of the others who have commented here, I find the 'hysterical' mob mentality that the media generated quite unsettling.
It reminds me of the sort of 'lynch mob' mentality prevalent in the Southern States in the early 20th century.
I think the whole political 'circus' that has surrounded this case has been something to be ashamed of; even more so when one reads The MacPherson Report.
MacPherson didn't find ANY evidence of racism against ANY of the investigating police officers. The whole thing was contrived.
For a good critique of this report I would recommend 'Racist Murder and Pressure Group Politics' by Norman, Erdos, and Al-Shahi.
@70sergius Good, I am pleased - as I suspect you would agree, the 'actual' story is a little more down to earth than the 'sensationalised' account we have been routinely fed for almost 20 years.
Knowledge is power, and truth even more so !
Remember the history of the 'class divide' here in the UK 70sergius - I feel that has raised it's ugly head in the vilification of the 'white working class' that has accompanied this spectacle. Just a thought.
I agree that some were pleased it was racist (ish)
@cjtj8 Absolutely. Don't anyone imgine that these boys were pursued because they did or did not commit murder; they were pursued becasue they embarrassed those in power.
Much was made of the way the boys 'swaggered' out of the MacPherson enquiry, as if that was somehow an indication of guilt. I'd be very surprised if guys like that reacted any differently. There are many in this country who hate working class white boys, even more so when they dare to actually exhibit pride in themselves
The police fucked up indeed, but the Lawrence family were foolish to initiate a private prosecution in 1996 with so little concrete evidence to back them up. The fact remains that Gary Dobson was acquitted of murdering Stephen Lawrence and it is a real shame, for that reason, that he is behind bars today. Double jeopardy was prohibited to protect acquitted people and bring finality to proceedings, in that sense he has been cheated by the country, whether he was guilty or not.
thing is will we ever find out whitch of the evil scum stabbed him .it could be that dobson and norris held back and didnt take part though i doubt it .if so they are mugs for doing life especially for the acourts.
Sometimes this world makes me sick to my stomach why cant we live in a world of peace and no racists and murders im a white boy i never make racist comments to black people think twice before u say something to a black.
i bet dobson was gutted being found guilty. he probably thought he could never be prosecuted again, after he got off back in 1996, but little did he know, they scrapped the double jeopardy rule.
Typical actions of a headbanger, who the fuck could be even remotely frightened of you? tell you probably what it was, that fucked up useless computer your trying to use dimwit, you stinking turd,thick ,useless,twisted ,fucked up bastard ,you got deformed offspring? bet you have,a stinking swamp of a twat you undoubtedly possess,never mind eh! fucking nigger/wigger
Blocked you imbecile? you are off your head,fucking illiterate as well "speek "shall we you ignoramus twat ,cannot even use spellchecker, I would not block a turd like you,your pathetic imagination is asylum stuff,a typical stupid twisted twat , a no hope individual who will undoubtedly be in the forefront of the forthcoming welfare cuts. Coward ? not with the likes of you, in your imagination dickhead,block you? what for? your a worthless piece of shit. I am living the good life honestly!!
2bsom1, you are a fucking mug you thick cunt. it was a set up, everyone knows that, they will be out in 5 years. a spot of blood that only a microscope can see, its a joke. someone had to be punished for it, and they will do. its political, but what can you expect now. no doubt all the fucking nutters on here will cry racist, blah blah blah, boring now.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
@theleithboy1 This is the truth,they were the sacrificial lambs to the slaughter. The appeal will exonerate them,no problems. Applied science can be read any which way and that blood stain will be replicated by other means. These boys will be laughing all the way to the bank within 12 months
look at 34 secs and note the getting towards middle aged guy with big smirk on his face...always wondered who he was when saw footage over the years....realised on that glorious day a couple of weeks ago he is dobsons father. nice photos in the papers showing him leaving court in 2012...whose smirking now Mr Dobson snr....your turn...karma old fruit!
why is this been dragged out so much? its bullshit if it was a white person who had been killed by some black people i bet it wouldnt even make the news.
has this been clarified as a racist attack anyways? maybe stephen was involved in some kind of feud with them before hand? maybe i havent read enough into this though i just think its all got a little dragged out now
@TheRascal5678 With respect, this was a racist murder. I am too tired to explain anymore, you were probably a little child when this happened, so i dont think you know enough about what happened to form much of an opinion. It took 18 years to finally get justice for Stephens murder. A mother fought for justice, it's not bullshit. Please dont form your opinions from youtube comments, please read up on the (whole) case for yourself. Then try to live in peace with everybody .
The police seem to think that by playing on Dobson and Norris' resentment that the others supposedly involved have walked free they will be able to get them to grass, but that would bring no benefit to either man. If they continue to maintain their innocence then it is still possible one of their convictions will be quashed on a point of evidential weakness. If they admit to it then it would be harder, or impossible, to get the convictions thrown out even if irregularities with the DNA emerged.
Whether either of them continue to claim there innocence will make it harder on them as like I said before until they admit there guilt they will not get parole I cannot see there convictions being quashed on a point of evidential weakness as dna and forensic puts the at the murder scene and nobody is buying this contamination farce as scientific evidence came from top scientists In the usa
There is the weakness of the DNA evidence insofar as it was 18 years old, there is the possibility that contamination took place etc and there is also the possibility, unlikely as this scenario would be, of a decent government coming to power and re-instating the prohibition on re-trial after an untained acquittal; under those circumstances Dobson would go free. Norris doesn't seem to have a leg to stand on, but the papers say he will never grass anyway.
Excellent project by Tom Daly. Great work. And Daily Mail should resurrect that wonderful headline giving them the ultimatum to sue if they didn't do it.
@theporksicle Poor Porksicle was brought up in a box and never saw any other human beings until he was 14 meaning that he/she/it didn't develop simple human communication skills like being able to detect irony or sarcasm.
All of your suggestions would be fine in a society where the legal system was not bound, in theory anyway, to side with the accused until conviction. See Blackstone's ratio, the import of which is that it is better that 10 guilty men walk free than that 1 innocent man is convicted. So if four of the five were there and one wasn't it is better that all free go free than all five are convicted.
certainly not especially when all 5 are guilty because it is good that atleast two of them areserving life sentence for Stephen murder then for all 5 of them to of be acquitted
No, but how do you KNOW all five are guilty? These lads ran a gang which encompassed at least a dozen youths, even if some of the five were involved it does not mean that all were part of the gang which attacked Stephen Lawrence.
It was blatantly all 5 of them involved regardless to who out of them struck the blow that killed Stephen. And if it were neither of the two convicted of his killing that struck the knife simple tell who is if not enjoy serving the 15 years
Because those two were both there on the night so guilty by association
I am not misquoting what you say, you are misquoting what other people have written. If you want to engage in a serious debate about this case at least do your opponent, namely me, the courtesy of getting the names right.
The Serious Organised Crime and Police Act of 2005 only provided for a reduction in sentence if they provided assistance before they were sentenced, it would be an extraordinary step for their sentences to be reduced at this stage even if they name names.
don’t patronize me just because I often get the names muddle up as it does not make what I am saying as any left credible Yes well thats where the bending of the rules comes in as it has been said if there willing to cooperate there sentences stand a chance of being reduced,the police are going to visit Dobson & Norris within the next couple of weeks Also Neville has already been giving two different lines of inquiry about the remaining killers which police are working on
Neville Lawrence? Isn't he living abroad now? Well, whatever. As for the police visiting Dobson and Norris, I also heard they would be visiting them in the next few weeks, but I just can't see any reason why the two would want to snitch on the others- they would not get a reduced sentence. As for admitting their own guilt, murderers HAVE been released on a life licence while still maintaining their innocence, although it is a rare occurrence.
The government and those in power couldn't care less about Stephen Lawrence. The only reason these guys have been jailed is because they embarrassed the government.
Moral; if you're poor, don't embarrass government. They hate you anyway for being poor, so if you embarrass them they'll kill you.
spot of blood you can only see with a microscope, thats it. because you dont like people and their views, you cant accuse people because of that. its corrupt, and bent. someone had to go down for that crime, and they have. the lawrence family are saying certain people are murderers, no they are not, they have not been convicted. its all political, and its a load of bollocks. they will probably get out due to a miscarrage in a few years.
To all of you who accuse these five men of the murder, how do you know they did it? What makes you so certain? The only evidence against them was their racist views, their love of knives and a reputation they had cultivated as hard men- none of that is enough to secure a conviction let alone a trial. No-one, not one of the 46 people who supposedly mentioned their names in the first 48 hours, claims to have seen them kill Stephen Lawrence. Brooks got a line up wrong for Christ's sake!
Dna, forensics 26 witness within 48 hours naming suspects ,lying throughout whole of incident, Dobson boasting to another inmate while serving a prison sentence that he was there when Stephen’s murder took place, Dobson also boasting to neo nazi group of his involvement.
The daily mail accuses those 5 as murders if we are wrong sue us (not a peep) lol
Again, you are confusing Dobson and Norris. NORRIS was accused, by a career criminal I might add (hardly a credible witness), of admitting he was 'there at the time' but that no-one will ever find the weapon; it's a bit of a moot point really.
26 witnesses? Really? So 26 people saw those lads murder Stephen did they? No, 26 people called in accusing them of murder because of a reputation they had- there is a word for this, that word is hearsay and hearsay is inadmissible in court.
they never found no weapon because it took the police two weeks after the muder to arrest them,which is also why the Acourts had no forensics found on clothing as they already disposed of there’s
Well if that is your belief then let me ask you this, why didn't Dobson and Norris (who no doubt, his accusers will claim, received help and advice from his gangster father) also destroy their clothes? And, why didn't the Acourts get rid of the many weapons found in their house if they anticipated being raided?
They did receive help from Norris father as they were all coached by him the fact that those two took it upon themselves not to dispose of there clothing just shows how much above the law they really felt they were,and as for the knifes they already exposed of the one that killed Stephen so why would they then need to expose of all the other knifes they had in there houses. you claim to of followed this case but yet everything I am quoting you seem to be in denial about,
So, you're saying the Acourts guilt is explained by some clothes they threw away, the existence of which you don't provide any evidence for, and Dobson and Norris' guilt is shown by their arrogance in not throwing away clothes. You have clearly decided that you believe that these men are guilty and are now looking for evidence, or creating explanations out of thin air, to support that belief.
Where is this knife? Can you PROVE they had a knife which was used to kill Lawrence? No.
You say they were all coached by Clifford Norris, where is your evidence for this? Has Norris snr. or any of the five, or anyone else, ever claimed that this actually happened? It was an educated guess that if the five were guilty Norris snr. would have helped them out, but for that to be the case you would have to prove first that they were guilty.
It would have been in their interest to dispose of their other knives because their love of knives was used by the press as circumstantial evidence to show that they were guilty of Stephen's murder. If they had had no knives their alibis would have stood up better.
They didn't sue, I suspect, for several reasons. Firstly, the case would have been decided before a jury, even with the reversed burden of proof in libel cases, it is likely, due to popular sentiment (which you are expressing here) against the five, that a perverse verdict would have been returned. Secondly, as a corollary of the first point, libel lawyers don't come cheap and if they had lost they would have faced hundreds of thousands of £ worth of legal fees.
I wasn't aware that the BNP financed their defence team. I don't see how that would do any favours to Dobson or Norris to be honest.
You don't seem to understand that a jury would still have make decisions on issues of fact in a libel case, and since most people think they are guilty, and thought so in 1997, it is likely that a libel action would have failed and they would have borne massive costs as a result.
Its funny how you seem to know quite a bit about this case as far as thoughs boys are concerned but yet fail to see how this case was flawed by institutional racism negligence, and a great injustice This case was indeed paid for from the bnp as how else do you think Norris and Dobson afforded there barristers because the barristers they both had were not legal aid and neither them nor there families work so how else do you think the solicitors fees got paid
Well, the papers report that all of the five seem to own luxury goods beyond what their reported income would allow. I don't know how much they have, but if your only reason for suggesting that the BNP paid for it is that neither of them are rich I think you are doing mental acrobatics.
The case was flawed by institutional racism, but that doesn't invalidate the acquittal of Gary Dobson. Sadly sometimes a case is so hampered by institutional failings that it falls apart.
I have big issues with how the police handled this case, I think those responsible, through negligence or intentional corruption, for hampering this investigation should face prosecution BUT the point remains that if the police cannot build a strong case then suspects, however compelling the evidence against them is, must go free. This is why police corruption is such a serious crime, when a policeman fails the guilty often walk free, but this is better than mob justice.
yeah you have big issues alright but yet no empathy for the Lawrence family who suffered a severe miscarriage of justice In the fact of the way this whole case was handled due to racism within the mets police force at the time.
Excuse me? Who said I have no empathy for the Lawrence family? I think it should go without saying that I feel sorry for a family whose innocent son was murdered, but that does not mean I am going to endorse mob justice or a bending of the rule of law because it suits the ends of the gutter press or the left-wing.
@theporksicle yeah it was the bending of the rules of the law which enabled them to get of the first time around fact being 26 people giving same boys names,notes been left in phone box on a car witness calling up the Lawrence family giving out the exact same names Neil actually filmed leaving his house the day after attack with black bag but yet the police took 2 weeks 2 arrest any of them Disgraceful cus had it of been the other way round police would of acted within those first 24 hours
Well, there was the small problem of none of those 26 claiming to have any proof that the Acourts & co. were actually responsible, they were just suggesting that that group were responsible because they had a reputation. Everyone, more or less, can see that the investigation was handled badly, but you can't undo their mistakes, not without compromising the integrity of our justice system.
I am guessing you think 'they must have done it' because of all of the other accusations against them (Stacey Benefield, Kevin London, Darren Giles, Lee Pearson etc), well as Daly says in this documentary not one of the five had a single conviction at the time of the 1996 trial. There was insufficient evidence, prima facie, to proceed with a trial against J Acourt or Norris. The only reason people think that they did it is because of hearsay.
The only reason none of those accusations from thoughs other boys never managed to stick on them is because of fear of Norris’s dad,bit of a coincidence that there all so innocent as you claim but yet all these other people are also confirming what violent thugs they all were. Yeah there all so innocent which Is exactly why throughout all of this they have conducted themselves as lowlife racist violent thugs.
Did I claim they were innocent? I think I claimed that the case is not as open and shut as people think, they may well have murdered Stephen Lawrence. Look, being lowlife racist thugs, some of whom lived in close proximity to Well Hall Road, does not mean that they killed Stephen Lawrence.
Norris' dad was in prison by 1996, besides which David Norris was not on trial in 1996 and it was the Judge, not the jury, who acquitted the three.
Well i don’t hear you on here contemplating about the her injustice that the Lawrence family have suffered throughout all of this all you seem to be doing is insinuating that those 5 boys are innocent if it were your child or a family member it happened to I wonder then if your views wouldyour views still be as bois.
I have not insinuated that they are innocent, I have suggested that the statement that they are guilty lacks a legal basis and is not entirely supported by the facts of the case. Nobody claims to have seen that group attack Stephen Lawrence, DNA evidence is lacking, it's possible such evidence used in the 2011 trial was the result of contamination, and there was so much hearsay bandied about that a fair trial was impossible to conduct.
But yet the way the blood was soaked into Dobson collar of his jacket which said by scientific evidence proved Dobson had to of been present on the night otherwise if it had been put there by contamination it would not of soaked the collar as such it would of just left a dry flaky patch
Not really, a lot of people who work in the field would question that assertion, besides the Met's procedures with respect to clothing and DNA in 1993 were pitiful and should be entirely disregarded.
Besides, supposing the blood spot did end up on his collar at the time of the murder, that proves he was part of an assault and that he is a consummate liar, not that he was a murderer. Finding him guilty of murder or manslaughter necessitates making inferences about his mental state.
Your just a fascist racist who is just gutted that two of the boys responsible for Stephen murder are now behind bars why dont you offer you assistance In launching an appeal for there miscarriage of justice sentences
@theporksicle It doesn’t matter whether David Norris dad was inside in 1996 as you know and I know that he could still put the frighteners on witness from behind bars also Norris dad paid off a police officer (Detective Sergeant John Davidson) in the beginning to dispose of any incriminating evidence
The suggestion that Norris snr. paid off John Davidson is just that, a suggestion. We have, as evidence, the word of a convicted bent copper, great. That guy belongs in the same category as the oik who claimed Norris admitted to involvement in the murder while behind bars. A lot of people want fame and making unsubstantiated claims against these five men is an easy way to get that.
@theporksicle so what are you claming that john Davidson was not corrupt then as he was as bent as the officer who grassed him up and was indeed very friendlywith Norris dad.The guy who claims Dobson boasted to him of Stephen killing would not give evidence in court due to his own safety
The guy who claimed Norris, not Dobson, boasted to him of the killing doesn't even have a name, unless he will still his head above the parapet and submit himself to the scrutiny of a court he might as well not exist (which he may well not do).
The officer who 'grassed Davidson up' was himself a corrupt officer, he has no credibility as a witness, it is his word against Davidson and Clifford Norris' word.
Why are u always trying to misquote anything I say as whether I make a mistake in quoting Dobson or Norris really has no relevance as the fact is what I am quoting is truth regardless of getting the names mixed up.What goes around comes around which is why those 2 vermin’s have at long last got there comeuppance as the truth always comes out in the end so when the Accourts are proving to have played the main part in Stephen’s killing I look forward to telling you I told you so
Look, I am not disputing that there is a lot of evidence which suggests that the unconvicted three may have been involved, nor am I questioning that most of them are highly unpleasant people, but I just don't see how a fair trial can take place. You seem to be advocating mob justice, because everyone thinks these five are guilty they must be.
What would you say if you found out Dobson or Norris was not there on the night? And really did not have anything to do with it?
they were there they are guilty as sin so i cannot understand why you are hell bent on defending these killers as i suppose you go with the bigots assumption that Stephen was a drug dealer and it was a gang fight and blacks that stab Stephen but yet Stephen was not know to he police had no criminal record a model student sitting his A levels in order to become architect.
You ask me not to patronise you and then you go and make unjustified assumptions about me and my motives. I have no interest in defending the people who killed Stephen Lawrence, those responsible should face the full force of the law if they are convicted properly but at least one of the two of them wasn't.
I'd rather see Gary Dobson go free, even if he did commit the murder, than see the entire English justice system undermined by his imprisonment, as it would be.
I am not making no assumptions you clearly are defending those vile vermin racists who took Stephen Lawrence life for no other reason then the fact that he was black,but then come on here trying to justify there innocents.like I said before & I will say again if it were your son murdered by them would you hold such bios opinions as don’t forget those involved had no regards for anybody life regardless of their skin colour and I’m done as your talking aload of cack
'Aload', 'bios', 'reason then the fact', 'trying to justify their innocents', English motherfucker do you speak it? You are a joke, you get their names confused, you've not only confused Dobson and Norris but also the Acourt brothers, and then you persist in making unsubstantiated allegations.
You can't prove that those five murdered Stephen Lawrence.
Ok, it must be getting time for you to go to bed- I'm assuming you're about 4 or 5 years old given your lack of competency in writing and remembering basic information.
@theporksicle Ignoramus fascist fool spelling errors/ mistakes are easily made on pcs unless of course you only use word/spellcheck Funny that Dobson & Norris claimed that the scientific evidence against them came from contamination caused by failings in the way the exhibits had been stored over the last18 yrs But yet although had the chance to did not produce a single expert to testify in support of their claims that contamination had somehow produced the evidence against them GUILTY.
What has a spell checker go to do with anything? If you know how to spell the word it is irrelevant. And your problem is not just misspelling, you seem to use the wrong word on occasion as well. Anyway, Dobson & Norris adduced evidence to show that the DNA in question could have wound up on their clothes through contamination, it was left up to the jury to decide who to believe and, unsurprisingly, the jury sided against them.
@Shaz4679 Are you still pushing your overt racist agenda? And when did you become judge jury and executioner? We are still very interested to hear what you have to say about Kriss Donald, Ross Parker and Liam Coyles murderers, or does your rhetoric only exend to black victims of so called "race crime"? It is amazing that, when people ask you very pertinent questions, you becomes as a spiteful and petulant teenager and call them stalkers and racist!
FCK sake a week after and still bloody stalking me damn I see that I have left that much of an impression on you that out of all the members you have spurted you racist comments to I am the only one that you have actually made a blog about (you know you secretly want piece) now for the umpteenth time FCKOFF! off ok cus this fine black chick has no interest in your vermin monstrosity *hit talk
@Shaz4679 Gosh, do you think I would have any interest in a soap dodging smeely bitch like you? Dont delude yourself, some of us do have standards.. But it is amzing how you stupdiously avoid answering the questions about white boys murdered by blacks. You are a filthy racist cunt, and make no mistake!
Ur blocked so atleast u can no longer write on my blogs/channels neither inbox me Carry on harassing me & I will report u to youtube.As I told u from last week Im done with conversing with u,but yet u still harass me, I suggest you go find somebody else to express ur bigotry views to,or go play with the traffic or urself
Addios (fckoff) Comprendi
As u clearly has some kind of unhealthy obsession with me sorry to burst your bubble but the feeling is most certainly not mutual
As for that Tammy Vosper, what a credible woman she is; her and her daughter were charged with burglary during last year's riots. I don't know whether she was guilty or not, but I think it is only fair that we assume she was in the same way she was content to slander the five accused before any were convicted of the murder.
hahahhahahha so glad to know that two of the Racist, uneducated filth are now starting a good 17 year stretch.....doooooh ...not so cocky now huh????.loooooooooooooool...RIP Stephen finallyxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Lady called shaz4679 wrote this on one of her video uploads, and told me I was racist when I questioned her partiality:- @looseball1980
Nice to know that some of the white members on here actually have morals what they did was disgusting and they deserve to be punished I actual cried when I heard he verdict as 18 years has been along time coming maybe Doreen & Neville will now be able to find some kind of closure RIP Stephen
@Shaz4679 A black ass? Funny thats the wrong colour for an ass...blacl asses do not exist! What does exist are black people who play tyhe race card too much and are in fact extremely racist themselves. As for stalking you, if that is your picture, best dream on girl....you sure am ugly!
Lol @ Whitenightsuk, where were you educated?!? were you educated at all?? The only reason this case has become so notorious is because of how the justice system failed, the Met were responsible for the feral 5 walking free - now 2 of the animals are locked up we just need to round up the rest of the herd! Why are you hating 'niggas' so much? Stephen Lawrence had much more to offer Britain than the 5 scumbag 'whites' that killed him!
Your a looser, your kids will be bacon eating loosers too.
well said as.Stephen came from a decent hardworking family background has no criminal record or dealings with the police. Norris dad was a drug dealer, all those boys families are vermin lowlifes, all of though 5 boys have criminal records all unemployed ,
Disturbing. People are people at the end of the day. If you stab someone, he bleeds to death, whether he is white or a "nigger" as so many bigots on here put it. By the way, I don't condone black crime against whites, either, and am not a do-gooder, just a member of the human race. Pity there are not more out there like me.
how many blacks have stabbed whites ?? fucking loads !!! so when i put 2 and 2 together and sum it up !! i really could not give a fuck for him or his nigger family !!!! shit theirs one thing i did forget to mention, i hope they get out of prison very soon, well at least for next christmas lol, id like to buy them a drink..... .fuck the niggers at the end of the day!
@theBaconBluesBand Im with ya mum she loves it up the rear end mate while she listens to Bob Marley,she loves Jammin to reggae and eating rice and peas and cheating on ya dad with blackmen who are well endowed!!!!!!!!
I suppose there is no point in wasting time and energy by hating Stephen's murderers. They are unintelligent idiots who have lied for 20 years. Sadly only two have been found guilty and imprisoned. But some justice has been done at last.
EmeraldSuede 2 weeks ago
@EmeraldSuede well, there's an appeal coming up (early Summer ?) so maybe justice will be served ?
You talk about people lying, what about the lying in films like this from people who really ought to know better ?
This whole spectacle ceased being about Stephen Lawrence and his murder soon after it happened.
It was hijacked by the 'anti-racist zealots' and the story became more and more distorted ever since.
There is a bigger principle at stake here than a mere murder conviction
cjtj8 2 weeks ago
@cjtj8 You make a very interesting point. When you say 'people who ought to know better for lying', who do you mean?
I wouldn't entirely agree that Stephen's Case was hijacked by 'anti-racist zealots'. Stephen's murder was based on racial prejudice, yes, and therefore his murder put a spotlight on racism in society, in particular the Criminal Justice system.
Could you elaborate on what you mean by 'there being a bigger principle at stake'?
EmeraldSuede 2 weeks ago
@EmeraldSuede The people who have made this programme.
It is full of half-truths and downright (rabble-rousing ?) lies.
For example Daly says that 'the establishment didn't want to know' and 'the police denied it was racist'.
The reality is that 'within hours' of the murder there was a press conference held at Woolwich police station which included DCI Illsley, the most senior policeman in that district, and the local MP. The MP talked of 'seeking meetings with Ministers' over the matter, and
cjtj8 2 weeks ago
@EmeraldSuede this was followed by a 'Police consultative committee meeting' which also included the MP from the neighbouring constituency. At the press conference DCI Illsley stated that 'the murder appeared to have a racial motive' - so the police linked it to racism right from the beginning.
The conflict with MacPherson came because the police refused to accept that it was 'unequivocally' racist (i.e. about nothing else)
The reason they said this was because they pointed out that the suspects
cjtj8 2 weeks ago
@EmeraldSuede had been involved in similar attacks on other people many of whom were white (the police contended that it was a mixture of thuggery and racism)
What evidence do you have to suggest that this murder put a spotlight on racism in society ?
Have you read the MacPherson Report ?
MacPherson didn't find 'one single shred of evidence' of racism against any of the investigating police officers(nor English society)
so they 'invented' a new type of racism,that is how they wee able to accuse
cjtj8 2 weeks ago
@cjtj8 You make very valid points. I'm afraid to say that I didn't know about the details you put in your answer. I believe society, as a whole body, isn't racist. It's some members within it that are.
EmeraldSuede 2 weeks ago
@cjtj8 I believe that to a certain extent Stephen's murder case did put a spotlight on some of the racism of the fabrics of society. I believe the Criminal Justice system didn't treat his case seriously. The police only intervened to the best of their ability after they were prompted by Nelson Mandela. That's my evidence for racism in society.
But we do have evidence that shows that it put a spotlight on racism in society; the secret footage of his killers using racist epithets etc.
EmeraldSuede 2 weeks ago
@cjtj8 Sorry, for my first part of my point, I mean to say: "I didn't know about some of the details you put in your answer".
EmeraldSuede 2 weeks ago
@EmeraldSuede I understand what you are saying EmeraldSuede but perhaps you make my point to some extent by your comment because, considering the unprecedented level of media coverage this case was subject to for almost 20 years, how could you NOT know these details ?
Answer: Because it has been so misrepresented by the news media etc (please see: Racist murder and Pressure Group Politics by Dennis, Erdos, and Al-Shahi - it is a very good insightful critique of the MacPherson Inquiry)
cjtj8 2 weeks ago
@cjtj8 I guess because of my age I haven't known about the full details you shared. I'm 20 and am studying Sociology. I appreciate your insight. Where did you gain this insight from? Thanks for the video suggestions.
EmeraldSuede 2 weeks ago
@EmeraldSuede I read something that called the accepted narrative into question EmeraldSuede and then I decided to read the MacPherson Report and one thing led to another. Good luck with your studying ! I think we need to worry less about who belongs to which group, and just concentrate on being kind and respectful with each other - look for common ground rather than stress difference.
It is easier EmeraldSuede to send me a message via my 'inbox' because I keep running out of words here
cjtj8 2 weeks ago
@cjtj8 I have to step in and say you're talking rubbish.
Stop and search is a racist policy which has been applied indiscrimitately to blacks for many years. The disinterest of police in investigating racism over many years is also a matter of public knowledge. Thats what institutionalised racism is.
Also this isnt the only crime that has been reported long after the event. It was Jamie Bulgers birthday yesterday. I know becuase the media reminded me of it.
gedt123 2 weeks ago
@gedt123 People discriminate for lots of reasons. Blacks, Women, Gingers, Irish, Polish. etc.... it happens every day. Racism is just one form
You're really coming here and really trying to say that racism does not exist in English society!? I'm not sure whether you are more of a fool or a downright liar.
You clearly have an agenda otherwise you wouldnt try to sell such disinformation.
gedt123 2 weeks ago
@gedt123 Now, since there is a direct link between crimes like street robbery and stop and search, given the facts that I have stated here (you can do the checking) it is logical that 'black youths' are going to be stopped and searched much more than say chinese youths or white youths - I am not sure that I see the connection between this and the Stephen Lawrence murder though I must say. Anyway, I will leave you to it you sound like you are arguing with yourself, you carry on.
cjtj8 2 weeks ago
@cjtj8 what about Hillbourough? The yorkshire murders? madaline Mccann? Milly Dowler?
All of these cases remain unresolved in the public eye will stay in the public forum untill the are resolved to the satisfaction of the public. It has nothing to do with race baiting and everything to do with a percieved injustice. You seem to have a serious case of mindblindness when it comes to this case, or should that be colour blindness.
gedt123 2 weeks ago
@gedt123 What about the weather ? what about the price of fish ?
What on earth are you blathering on about ??
What has anything you have said got to do with the Stephen Lawrence murder and all the politics that surrounded it ?? I will not waste my time engaging with you any further you oaf !!
cjtj8 1 week ago
@gedt123 Says who ? I am afraid you are wrong on almost everything you have said (if not everything). Black youths are MASSIVELY over-represented in crimes like street robbery - all the statistical evidence consistently confirms this, ever since it first hit the headlines in the 1970's - also, if you look at the evidence for 999 calls for things like street robbery (in London) the vast majority of callers identify the perpetrator for such offences as street robbery as being black.
cjtj8 2 weeks ago
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Can't help but laugh when people try to defend there country for being non-racist but blame the media , just take a look below .Calling someone a Scottish twat , Irish c*nt and the last word referring to black people which i won't repeat ..Hmm well done @lolweiser does it make you feel the bigger man using profanity & racism? I'm only 14 but my view is thats Unacceptable , having a view is everyones right but your only contradicting the whole point of the stephen lawrence case - be less racist!
babycham134 2 weeks ago
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babycham134 2 weeks ago
This wanker presenter call Nelson Mandela athe World's number 1 humanitarian er does he class terrorists who leave bombs at train stations humaniterian. What a media cxunt he is!!!!!!!!!!
LOLWEISER 2 weeks ago
@LOLWEISER I agree. He was every bit as bad as the IRA.
70sergius 2 weeks ago
Mark Daly is a scottish rat and Dwayne is a Rapist Monkey who tries so hard to sound smart but is on par with a white man trying to be hip really makes your toe curl. Dumb coon!
LOLWEISER 2 weeks ago
really poor documentry. i want facts not your opinions of what is 'suspiciuos' what are your qualivactions? we're you an investergation on the case?
RIP stephen
cv003799 2 weeks ago
@cv003799 It is a 'documentary' full of 'half truths' and downright lies.
The whole process ultimately wasn't about Stephen Lawrence (who certainly didn't deserve to die like that) it was completely hijacked by the 'anti-racist pressure groups' and their chums in the media who completely distorted the story - as witness this (so-called) documentary.
Please read the MacPherson Report cv003799 if you want to know the real details; you won't learn much from this offering from 'chosen' Daly.
cjtj8 2 weeks ago
Because the MacPherson Inquiry didn't find ANY evidence of racism by ANY of the investigating police officers, they invented a new type of racism
This new type of racism was a racism that people committed 'unknowingly', and 'unwittingly' and typically the person on the receiving end didn't even know they had been a victim ..
Think I am making this up ?
Read the MacPherson Report
The existence of this racism that 'infected' the police and English society was unprovable either way - what a joke
cjtj8 3 weeks ago
At that initial meeting DCI Illsley immediately announced that 'it appeared to be a racial murder' - this is within hours of the murder !
The problem MacPherson had with the police was that the police wouldn't accept that it was 'exclusively' about race.
The police pointed out that the suspects had a history of having attacked other people in the same way, and that many of the other people were 'white'
The police maintained that race was an issue, but that it wasn't 'unequivocally' racist
cjtj8 3 weeks ago
The introduction to this 'documentary' is complete nonsense.
"An establishment that didn't want to know ..."
The reality is that a press conference was held at Woolwich police station 'the day after the murder' the conference was attended by DCI Illsley, the highest ranking police officer in the area in which the murder had been committed, the local MP talked of 'seeking meetings with government Ministers' etc
The idea that 'the establishment wasn't interested' is pure 'activist' fiction
cjtj8 3 weeks ago
The problem with the premise of this 'documentary' is that it is full of 'half-truths' and none of the (so called) evidence it claims to show has ever stood up in court.
Am I supporting these 5 young men ?
I am supporting the right of 'anyone' to a fair trial.
There is something deeply distasteful about the media (and their pressure group allies) campaign against 5 poorly educated youths.
cjtj8 3 weeks ago
In case anyone hadn't noticed there is an 'Appeal' expected now, and perhaps, just perhaps, the non-stop, all-consuming, news media campaign declaring their 'guilt' for almost 20 years could (in part) prove to be the undoing of the prosecution case.
Contrary to many of the others who have commented here, I find the 'hysterical' mob mentality that the media generated quite unsettling.
It reminds me of the sort of 'lynch mob' mentality prevalent in the Southern States in the early 20th century.
cjtj8 3 weeks ago
@cjtj8 I completely agree
70sergius 3 weeks ago
@70sergius Thank you 70sergius !
I think the whole political 'circus' that has surrounded this case has been something to be ashamed of; even more so when one reads The MacPherson Report.
MacPherson didn't find ANY evidence of racism against ANY of the investigating police officers. The whole thing was contrived.
For a good critique of this report I would recommend 'Racist Murder and Pressure Group Politics' by Norman, Erdos, and Al-Shahi.
It is quite an eye opener and very rigorous.
cjtj8 3 weeks ago
@cjtj8 Thanks. Will do :0)
70sergius 3 weeks ago
@cjtj8 thanks for the reference, just got it yesterday and can't put it down; fascinating and very telling.
I know this is cynical, but I think there's an awful lotta people who would be v disappointed if it were NOT a racist killing :0/
70sergius 2 weeks ago
@70sergius Good, I am pleased - as I suspect you would agree, the 'actual' story is a little more down to earth than the 'sensationalised' account we have been routinely fed for almost 20 years.
Knowledge is power, and truth even more so !
Remember the history of the 'class divide' here in the UK 70sergius - I feel that has raised it's ugly head in the vilification of the 'white working class' that has accompanied this spectacle. Just a thought.
I agree that some were pleased it was racist (ish)
cjtj8 2 weeks ago
@cjtj8 Absolutely. Don't anyone imgine that these boys were pursued because they did or did not commit murder; they were pursued becasue they embarrassed those in power.
Much was made of the way the boys 'swaggered' out of the MacPherson enquiry, as if that was somehow an indication of guilt. I'd be very surprised if guys like that reacted any differently. There are many in this country who hate working class white boys, even more so when they dare to actually exhibit pride in themselves
70sergius 2 weeks ago
@70sergius Moral; if you are poor, do not embarrass those in power. They hate you anyway for being poor, so if you embarrass them they'll kill you.
70sergius 2 weeks ago
@TheRascal5678 yeah your right
john381100 1 month ago
The police fucked up. They could have followed them to find where the evidence was left or just jumped out of the car and arrested them.
This case could have been nailed beyond all reasonable doubt if it weren't for that mistake.
UK31337 1 month ago
@UK31337
The police fucked up indeed, but the Lawrence family were foolish to initiate a private prosecution in 1996 with so little concrete evidence to back them up. The fact remains that Gary Dobson was acquitted of murdering Stephen Lawrence and it is a real shame, for that reason, that he is behind bars today. Double jeopardy was prohibited to protect acquitted people and bring finality to proceedings, in that sense he has been cheated by the country, whether he was guilty or not.
theporksicle 3 weeks ago
thing is will we ever find out whitch of the evil scum stabbed him .it could be that dobson and norris held back and didnt take part though i doubt it .if so they are mugs for doing life especially for the acourts.
vespasianlegx11 1 month ago
Sometimes this world makes me sick to my stomach why cant we live in a world of peace and no racists and murders im a white boy i never make racist comments to black people think twice before u say something to a black.
DisasterMini 1 month ago
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thekatie40 1 month ago
norris comes across a proper retard.
leedumett444 1 month ago 3
dobson's father is such a cunt. he's not laughing now.
leedumett444 1 month ago 2
i bet dobson was gutted being found guilty. he probably thought he could never be prosecuted again, after he got off back in 1996, but little did he know, they scrapped the double jeopardy rule.
leedumett444 1 month ago 2
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Typical actions of a headbanger, who the fuck could be even remotely frightened of you? tell you probably what it was, that fucked up useless computer your trying to use dimwit, you stinking turd,thick ,useless,twisted ,fucked up bastard ,you got deformed offspring? bet you have,a stinking swamp of a twat you undoubtedly possess,never mind eh! fucking nigger/wigger
jb44able 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Blocked you imbecile? you are off your head,fucking illiterate as well "speek "shall we you ignoramus twat ,cannot even use spellchecker, I would not block a turd like you,your pathetic imagination is asylum stuff,a typical stupid twisted twat , a no hope individual who will undoubtedly be in the forefront of the forthcoming welfare cuts. Coward ? not with the likes of you, in your imagination dickhead,block you? what for? your a worthless piece of shit. I am living the good life honestly!!
jb44able 1 month ago
2bsom1, you are a fucking mug you thick cunt. it was a set up, everyone knows that, they will be out in 5 years. a spot of blood that only a microscope can see, its a joke. someone had to be punished for it, and they will do. its political, but what can you expect now. no doubt all the fucking nutters on here will cry racist, blah blah blah, boring now.
theleithboy1 1 month ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
@theleithboy1 This is the truth,they were the sacrificial lambs to the slaughter. The appeal will exonerate them,no problems. Applied science can be read any which way and that blood stain will be replicated by other means. These boys will be laughing all the way to the bank within 12 months
jb44able 1 month ago
look at 34 secs and note the getting towards middle aged guy with big smirk on his face...always wondered who he was when saw footage over the years....realised on that glorious day a couple of weeks ago he is dobsons father. nice photos in the papers showing him leaving court in 2012...whose smirking now Mr Dobson snr....your turn...karma old fruit!
MrLuxint 1 month ago
i would love the cut these cunts up, good style.
leedumett444 1 month ago
black bin bag probably had the murder weapon and clothes in it, yet the police just let it go.
leedumett444 1 month ago
at least stephen got some kind of justice. fatboy dobson and retard norris are doing life, and they will be gutted deepdown.
leedumett444 1 month ago
luke knight is a proper ugly cunt, ha, ha.
leedumett444 1 month ago
anybody know the name of the song at the beginning I'm trying to do a video about steven and i want the song
?
dwyer96 1 month ago
@dwyer96
dont know but i'll try and find out for you
Shaz4679 1 month ago
@dwyer96
MSD- O'Claire.
theporksicle 1 month ago
why is this been dragged out so much? its bullshit if it was a white person who had been killed by some black people i bet it wouldnt even make the news.
has this been clarified as a racist attack anyways? maybe stephen was involved in some kind of feud with them before hand? maybe i havent read enough into this though i just think its all got a little dragged out now
TheRascal5678 1 month ago
@TheRascal5678 think you need to know the facts of this case before commenting on here as you sound like an *ss
Shaz4679 1 month ago
@TheRascal5678 With respect, this was a racist murder. I am too tired to explain anymore, you were probably a little child when this happened, so i dont think you know enough about what happened to form much of an opinion. It took 18 years to finally get justice for Stephens murder. A mother fought for justice, it's not bullshit. Please dont form your opinions from youtube comments, please read up on the (whole) case for yourself. Then try to live in peace with everybody .
thekatie40 1 month ago
Steven Lawrence, Such a goodlooking guy.
Reine1944 1 month ago
The police seem to think that by playing on Dobson and Norris' resentment that the others supposedly involved have walked free they will be able to get them to grass, but that would bring no benefit to either man. If they continue to maintain their innocence then it is still possible one of their convictions will be quashed on a point of evidential weakness. If they admit to it then it would be harder, or impossible, to get the convictions thrown out even if irregularities with the DNA emerged.
theporksicle 1 month ago
@theporksicle
Whether either of them continue to claim there innocence will make it harder on them as like I said before until they admit there guilt they will not get parole I cannot see there convictions being quashed on a point of evidential weakness as dna and forensic puts the at the murder scene and nobody is buying this contamination farce as scientific evidence came from top scientists In the usa
Shaz4679 1 month ago
@Shaz4679
There is the weakness of the DNA evidence insofar as it was 18 years old, there is the possibility that contamination took place etc and there is also the possibility, unlikely as this scenario would be, of a decent government coming to power and re-instating the prohibition on re-trial after an untained acquittal; under those circumstances Dobson would go free. Norris doesn't seem to have a leg to stand on, but the papers say he will never grass anyway.
theporksicle 1 month ago
Ugly racist scumbags. I can't believe they were never sentenced. Fucking disgraceful!!!
JBLovatic93 1 month ago 2
Excellent project by Tom Daly. Great work. And Daily Mail should resurrect that wonderful headline giving them the ultimatum to sue if they didn't do it.
oisaveloy 1 month ago
@oisaveloy
I suppose you also despise the rule of law and see the media as an agent of the state.
theporksicle 1 month ago
@theporksicle Poor Porksicle was brought up in a box and never saw any other human beings until he was 14 meaning that he/she/it didn't develop simple human communication skills like being able to detect irony or sarcasm.
oisaveloy 1 month ago
@oisaveloy
Ok, calm down. With the number of retards posting on here I can't tell who is being serious and who isn't.
theporksicle 1 month ago
@theporksicle I was so calm when I created that comment I was virtually asleep. Its all in the spirit of entertainment, what, what old bean.
oisaveloy 1 month ago
@oisaveloy
No probs. Although some on here seem to lack a sense of humour about anything involving Stephen Lawrence.
theporksicle 1 month ago
who?
footballgeorgiebest 1 month ago
All of your suggestions would be fine in a society where the legal system was not bound, in theory anyway, to side with the accused until conviction. See Blackstone's ratio, the import of which is that it is better that 10 guilty men walk free than that 1 innocent man is convicted. So if four of the five were there and one wasn't it is better that all free go free than all five are convicted.
theporksicle 1 month ago
@theporksicle
certainly not especially when all 5 are guilty because it is good that atleast two of them areserving life sentence for Stephen murder then for all 5 of them to of be acquitted
Shaz4679 1 month ago
@Shaz4679
No, but how do you KNOW all five are guilty? These lads ran a gang which encompassed at least a dozen youths, even if some of the five were involved it does not mean that all were part of the gang which attacked Stephen Lawrence.
theporksicle 1 month ago
@theporksicle
It was blatantly all 5 of them involved regardless to who out of them struck the blow that killed Stephen. And if it were neither of the two convicted of his killing that struck the knife simple tell who is if not enjoy serving the 15 years
Because those two were both there on the night so guilty by association
Shaz4679 1 month ago
@Shaz4679
I am not misquoting what you say, you are misquoting what other people have written. If you want to engage in a serious debate about this case at least do your opponent, namely me, the courtesy of getting the names right.
The Serious Organised Crime and Police Act of 2005 only provided for a reduction in sentence if they provided assistance before they were sentenced, it would be an extraordinary step for their sentences to be reduced at this stage even if they name names.
theporksicle 1 month ago
@theporksicle
don’t patronize me just because I often get the names muddle up as it does not make what I am saying as any left credible Yes well thats where the bending of the rules comes in as it has been said if there willing to cooperate there sentences stand a chance of being reduced,the police are going to visit Dobson & Norris within the next couple of weeks Also Neville has already been giving two different lines of inquiry about the remaining killers which police are working on
Shaz4679 1 month ago
@Shaz4679
Neville Lawrence? Isn't he living abroad now? Well, whatever. As for the police visiting Dobson and Norris, I also heard they would be visiting them in the next few weeks, but I just can't see any reason why the two would want to snitch on the others- they would not get a reduced sentence. As for admitting their own guilt, murderers HAVE been released on a life licence while still maintaining their innocence, although it is a rare occurrence.
theporksicle 1 month ago
@theporksicle
Neville lawrence living abroad has to do with what DUH!
Shaz4679 1 month ago
@theporksicle
Considering the case only finished last week Neville has flown straight back to where you supposedly claim he now resides DUH!
Shaz4679 1 month ago
The government and those in power couldn't care less about Stephen Lawrence. The only reason these guys have been jailed is because they embarrassed the government.
Moral; if you're poor, don't embarrass government. They hate you anyway for being poor, so if you embarrass them they'll kill you.
splinterbyrd 1 month ago
this is so deep , glad people have been accused, butt its not justice until all of them are caught
RIP Steven
girlilious 1 month ago
well we will agree, to disagree. we see?.
theleithboy1 1 month ago
spot of blood you can only see with a microscope, thats it. because you dont like people and their views, you cant accuse people because of that. its corrupt, and bent. someone had to go down for that crime, and they have. the lawrence family are saying certain people are murderers, no they are not, they have not been convicted. its all political, and its a load of bollocks. they will probably get out due to a miscarrage in a few years.
theleithboy1 1 month ago
@theleithboy1 "they will probably get out due to a miscarrage in a few years."
I doubt it. We'll probably see more convictions for this barbaric murder.
J122COCK 1 month ago 2
@theleithboy1 i agree with u 100 percent ,,spot of blood my ass
scattyballs 1 month ago
@theleithboy1 u sad mug
2bsom1 1 month ago
RIP S.L. Using Rap & Poetry, I fought back against family racism towards my mixed race daughter. Crown court then banned that rap & poetry.
First ever British Rap-Poet to be given a "5 year Rap & Poetry ban"
(2009-2014) Official Court Papers Video on my channel.
#FamilyRacism #Censorship #Injustice
Support my fight against racism & censorship by subscribing to this channel & following me on twitter @donhonki
Thanks.
New video uploaded "Why Did Crown Court Censor My Poetry & Rap Lyrics????"
TheBannedPoet 1 month ago
They done it cos i say so you morons,they done it because they have been found guilty and anyone who says different is a racist its that simple.
mclife1 1 month ago
To all of you who accuse these five men of the murder, how do you know they did it? What makes you so certain? The only evidence against them was their racist views, their love of knives and a reputation they had cultivated as hard men- none of that is enough to secure a conviction let alone a trial. No-one, not one of the 46 people who supposedly mentioned their names in the first 48 hours, claims to have seen them kill Stephen Lawrence. Brooks got a line up wrong for Christ's sake!
theporksicle 1 month ago
@theporksicle Stop chatting shit mate your a muppet if you trying to defend these little cowards!!!
mclife1 1 month ago
@theporksicle
THERE GUILT
Dna, forensics 26 witness within 48 hours naming suspects ,lying throughout whole of incident, Dobson boasting to another inmate while serving a prison sentence that he was there when Stephen’s murder took place, Dobson also boasting to neo nazi group of his involvement.
The daily mail accuses those 5 as murders if we are wrong sue us (not a peep) lol
Shaz4679 1 month ago
@Shaz4679
Again, you are confusing Dobson and Norris. NORRIS was accused, by a career criminal I might add (hardly a credible witness), of admitting he was 'there at the time' but that no-one will ever find the weapon; it's a bit of a moot point really.
26 witnesses? Really? So 26 people saw those lads murder Stephen did they? No, 26 people called in accusing them of murder because of a reputation they had- there is a word for this, that word is hearsay and hearsay is inadmissible in court.
theporksicle 1 month ago
@theporksicle
they never found no weapon because it took the police two weeks after the muder to arrest them,which is also why the Acourts had no forensics found on clothing as they already disposed of there’s
Shaz4679 1 month ago
@Shaz4679
Well if that is your belief then let me ask you this, why didn't Dobson and Norris (who no doubt, his accusers will claim, received help and advice from his gangster father) also destroy their clothes? And, why didn't the Acourts get rid of the many weapons found in their house if they anticipated being raided?
theporksicle 1 month ago
@theporksicle
They did receive help from Norris father as they were all coached by him the fact that those two took it upon themselves not to dispose of there clothing just shows how much above the law they really felt they were,and as for the knifes they already exposed of the one that killed Stephen so why would they then need to expose of all the other knifes they had in there houses. you claim to of followed this case but yet everything I am quoting you seem to be in denial about,
Shaz4679 1 month ago
@Shaz4679
So, you're saying the Acourts guilt is explained by some clothes they threw away, the existence of which you don't provide any evidence for, and Dobson and Norris' guilt is shown by their arrogance in not throwing away clothes. You have clearly decided that you believe that these men are guilty and are now looking for evidence, or creating explanations out of thin air, to support that belief.
Where is this knife? Can you PROVE they had a knife which was used to kill Lawrence? No.
theporksicle 1 month ago
@Shaz4679
You say they were all coached by Clifford Norris, where is your evidence for this? Has Norris snr. or any of the five, or anyone else, ever claimed that this actually happened? It was an educated guess that if the five were guilty Norris snr. would have helped them out, but for that to be the case you would have to prove first that they were guilty.
theporksicle 1 month ago
@Shaz4679
It would have been in their interest to dispose of their other knives because their love of knives was used by the press as circumstantial evidence to show that they were guilty of Stephen's murder. If they had had no knives their alibis would have stood up better.
theporksicle 1 month ago
@Shaz4679
They didn't sue, I suspect, for several reasons. Firstly, the case would have been decided before a jury, even with the reversed burden of proof in libel cases, it is likely, due to popular sentiment (which you are expressing here) against the five, that a perverse verdict would have been returned. Secondly, as a corollary of the first point, libel lawyers don't come cheap and if they had lost they would have faced hundreds of thousands of £ worth of legal fees.
theporksicle 1 month ago
@theporksicle
If they were truly innocent they would of sued to clear there names plus the bnp would of funded them just like they funded them for this trial
Shaz4679 1 month ago
@Shaz4679
I wasn't aware that the BNP financed their defence team. I don't see how that would do any favours to Dobson or Norris to be honest.
You don't seem to understand that a jury would still have make decisions on issues of fact in a libel case, and since most people think they are guilty, and thought so in 1997, it is likely that a libel action would have failed and they would have borne massive costs as a result.
theporksicle 1 month ago
@theporksicle
Its funny how you seem to know quite a bit about this case as far as thoughs boys are concerned but yet fail to see how this case was flawed by institutional racism negligence, and a great injustice This case was indeed paid for from the bnp as how else do you think Norris and Dobson afforded there barristers because the barristers they both had were not legal aid and neither them nor there families work so how else do you think the solicitors fees got paid
Shaz4679 1 month ago
@Shaz4679
Well, the papers report that all of the five seem to own luxury goods beyond what their reported income would allow. I don't know how much they have, but if your only reason for suggesting that the BNP paid for it is that neither of them are rich I think you are doing mental acrobatics.
The case was flawed by institutional racism, but that doesn't invalidate the acquittal of Gary Dobson. Sadly sometimes a case is so hampered by institutional failings that it falls apart.
theporksicle 1 month ago
@Shaz4679
I have big issues with how the police handled this case, I think those responsible, through negligence or intentional corruption, for hampering this investigation should face prosecution BUT the point remains that if the police cannot build a strong case then suspects, however compelling the evidence against them is, must go free. This is why police corruption is such a serious crime, when a policeman fails the guilty often walk free, but this is better than mob justice.
theporksicle 1 month ago
@theporksicle
yeah you have big issues alright but yet no empathy for the Lawrence family who suffered a severe miscarriage of justice In the fact of the way this whole case was handled due to racism within the mets police force at the time.
Shaz4679 1 month ago
@Shaz4679
Excuse me? Who said I have no empathy for the Lawrence family? I think it should go without saying that I feel sorry for a family whose innocent son was murdered, but that does not mean I am going to endorse mob justice or a bending of the rule of law because it suits the ends of the gutter press or the left-wing.
theporksicle 1 month ago
@theporksicle yeah it was the bending of the rules of the law which enabled them to get of the first time around fact being 26 people giving same boys names,notes been left in phone box on a car witness calling up the Lawrence family giving out the exact same names Neil actually filmed leaving his house the day after attack with black bag but yet the police took 2 weeks 2 arrest any of them Disgraceful cus had it of been the other way round police would of acted within those first 24 hours
Shaz4679 1 month ago
@Shaz4679
Well, there was the small problem of none of those 26 claiming to have any proof that the Acourts & co. were actually responsible, they were just suggesting that that group were responsible because they had a reputation. Everyone, more or less, can see that the investigation was handled badly, but you can't undo their mistakes, not without compromising the integrity of our justice system.
theporksicle 1 month ago
@theporksicle i agree
scattyballs 1 month ago
I am guessing you think 'they must have done it' because of all of the other accusations against them (Stacey Benefield, Kevin London, Darren Giles, Lee Pearson etc), well as Daly says in this documentary not one of the five had a single conviction at the time of the 1996 trial. There was insufficient evidence, prima facie, to proceed with a trial against J Acourt or Norris. The only reason people think that they did it is because of hearsay.
theporksicle 1 month ago
@theporksicle
The only reason none of those accusations from thoughs other boys never managed to stick on them is because of fear of Norris’s dad,bit of a coincidence that there all so innocent as you claim but yet all these other people are also confirming what violent thugs they all were. Yeah there all so innocent which Is exactly why throughout all of this they have conducted themselves as lowlife racist violent thugs.
Shaz4679 1 month ago
@Shaz4679
Did I claim they were innocent? I think I claimed that the case is not as open and shut as people think, they may well have murdered Stephen Lawrence. Look, being lowlife racist thugs, some of whom lived in close proximity to Well Hall Road, does not mean that they killed Stephen Lawrence.
Norris' dad was in prison by 1996, besides which David Norris was not on trial in 1996 and it was the Judge, not the jury, who acquitted the three.
theporksicle 1 month ago
@theporksicle
Well i don’t hear you on here contemplating about the her injustice that the Lawrence family have suffered throughout all of this all you seem to be doing is insinuating that those 5 boys are innocent if it were your child or a family member it happened to I wonder then if your views wouldyour views still be as bois.
Shaz4679 1 month ago
@Shaz4679
I have not insinuated that they are innocent, I have suggested that the statement that they are guilty lacks a legal basis and is not entirely supported by the facts of the case. Nobody claims to have seen that group attack Stephen Lawrence, DNA evidence is lacking, it's possible such evidence used in the 2011 trial was the result of contamination, and there was so much hearsay bandied about that a fair trial was impossible to conduct.
theporksicle 1 month ago
@theporksicle
But yet the way the blood was soaked into Dobson collar of his jacket which said by scientific evidence proved Dobson had to of been present on the night otherwise if it had been put there by contamination it would not of soaked the collar as such it would of just left a dry flaky patch
Shaz4679 1 month ago
@Shaz4679
Not really, a lot of people who work in the field would question that assertion, besides the Met's procedures with respect to clothing and DNA in 1993 were pitiful and should be entirely disregarded.
Besides, supposing the blood spot did end up on his collar at the time of the murder, that proves he was part of an assault and that he is a consummate liar, not that he was a murderer. Finding him guilty of murder or manslaughter necessitates making inferences about his mental state.
theporksicle 1 month ago
@theporksicle
Your just a fascist racist who is just gutted that two of the boys responsible for Stephen murder are now behind bars why dont you offer you assistance In launching an appeal for there miscarriage of justice sentences
Shaz4679 1 month ago
@theporksicle It doesn’t matter whether David Norris dad was inside in 1996 as you know and I know that he could still put the frighteners on witness from behind bars also Norris dad paid off a police officer (Detective Sergeant John Davidson) in the beginning to dispose of any incriminating evidence
Shaz4679 1 month ago
@Shaz4679
The suggestion that Norris snr. paid off John Davidson is just that, a suggestion. We have, as evidence, the word of a convicted bent copper, great. That guy belongs in the same category as the oik who claimed Norris admitted to involvement in the murder while behind bars. A lot of people want fame and making unsubstantiated claims against these five men is an easy way to get that.
theporksicle 1 month ago
@theporksicle so what are you claming that john Davidson was not corrupt then as he was as bent as the officer who grassed him up and was indeed very friendlywith Norris dad.The guy who claims Dobson boasted to him of Stephen killing would not give evidence in court due to his own safety
Shaz4679 1 month ago
@Shaz4679
The guy who claimed Norris, not Dobson, boasted to him of the killing doesn't even have a name, unless he will still his head above the parapet and submit himself to the scrutiny of a court he might as well not exist (which he may well not do).
The officer who 'grassed Davidson up' was himself a corrupt officer, he has no credibility as a witness, it is his word against Davidson and Clifford Norris' word.
theporksicle 1 month ago
@theporksicle
Why are u always trying to misquote anything I say as whether I make a mistake in quoting Dobson or Norris really has no relevance as the fact is what I am quoting is truth regardless of getting the names mixed up.What goes around comes around which is why those 2 vermin’s have at long last got there comeuppance as the truth always comes out in the end so when the Accourts are proving to have played the main part in Stephen’s killing I look forward to telling you I told you so
Shaz4679 1 month ago
@Shaz4679
Look, I am not disputing that there is a lot of evidence which suggests that the unconvicted three may have been involved, nor am I questioning that most of them are highly unpleasant people, but I just don't see how a fair trial can take place. You seem to be advocating mob justice, because everyone thinks these five are guilty they must be.
What would you say if you found out Dobson or Norris was not there on the night? And really did not have anything to do with it?
theporksicle 1 month ago
@theporksicle
they were there they are guilty as sin so i cannot understand why you are hell bent on defending these killers as i suppose you go with the bigots assumption that Stephen was a drug dealer and it was a gang fight and blacks that stab Stephen but yet Stephen was not know to he police had no criminal record a model student sitting his A levels in order to become architect.
Shaz4679 1 month ago
@Shaz4679
You ask me not to patronise you and then you go and make unjustified assumptions about me and my motives. I have no interest in defending the people who killed Stephen Lawrence, those responsible should face the full force of the law if they are convicted properly but at least one of the two of them wasn't.
I'd rather see Gary Dobson go free, even if he did commit the murder, than see the entire English justice system undermined by his imprisonment, as it would be.
theporksicle 1 month ago
@theporksicle
I am not making no assumptions you clearly are defending those vile vermin racists who took Stephen Lawrence life for no other reason then the fact that he was black,but then come on here trying to justify there innocents.like I said before & I will say again if it were your son murdered by them would you hold such bios opinions as don’t forget those involved had no regards for anybody life regardless of their skin colour and I’m done as your talking aload of cack
Shaz4679 1 month ago
@Shaz4679
'Aload', 'bios', 'reason then the fact', 'trying to justify their innocents', English motherfucker do you speak it? You are a joke, you get their names confused, you've not only confused Dobson and Norris but also the Acourt brothers, and then you persist in making unsubstantiated allegations.
You can't prove that those five murdered Stephen Lawrence.
theporksicle 1 month ago
@theporksicle
I am so done with your ramblings you deluded bigot fascist fool
Shaz4679 1 month ago
@Shaz4679
Ok, it must be getting time for you to go to bed- I'm assuming you're about 4 or 5 years old given your lack of competency in writing and remembering basic information.
theporksicle 1 month ago
@theporksicle
zzzzzzzzzzz you fcking retarted troll
Shaz4679 1 month ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
@Shaz4679
'Retarted' lol
theporksicle 1 month ago
@theporksicle Ignoramus fascist fool spelling errors/ mistakes are easily made on pcs unless of course you only use word/spellcheck Funny that Dobson & Norris claimed that the scientific evidence against them came from contamination caused by failings in the way the exhibits had been stored over the last18 yrs But yet although had the chance to did not produce a single expert to testify in support of their claims that contamination had somehow produced the evidence against them GUILTY.
Shaz4679 1 month ago
@Shaz4679
What has a spell checker go to do with anything? If you know how to spell the word it is irrelevant. And your problem is not just misspelling, you seem to use the wrong word on occasion as well. Anyway, Dobson & Norris adduced evidence to show that the DNA in question could have wound up on their clothes through contamination, it was left up to the jury to decide who to believe and, unsurprisingly, the jury sided against them.
theporksicle 1 month ago
@theporksicle
the only motherfucker on here is you ignorant *ss
Shaz4679 1 month ago
@Shaz4679 Are you still pushing your overt racist agenda? And when did you become judge jury and executioner? We are still very interested to hear what you have to say about Kriss Donald, Ross Parker and Liam Coyles murderers, or does your rhetoric only exend to black victims of so called "race crime"? It is amazing that, when people ask you very pertinent questions, you becomes as a spiteful and petulant teenager and call them stalkers and racist!
MrMickroach 1 month ago
@MrMickroach
FCK sake a week after and still bloody stalking me damn I see that I have left that much of an impression on you that out of all the members you have spurted you racist comments to I am the only one that you have actually made a blog about (you know you secretly want piece) now for the umpteenth time FCKOFF! off ok cus this fine black chick has no interest in your vermin monstrosity *hit talk
Shaz4679 1 month ago
@Shaz4679 Gosh, do you think I would have any interest in a soap dodging smeely bitch like you? Dont delude yourself, some of us do have standards.. But it is amzing how you stupdiously avoid answering the questions about white boys murdered by blacks. You are a filthy racist cunt, and make no mistake!
MrMickroach 1 month ago
@MrMickroach
Ur blocked so atleast u can no longer write on my blogs/channels neither inbox me Carry on harassing me & I will report u to youtube.As I told u from last week Im done with conversing with u,but yet u still harass me, I suggest you go find somebody else to express ur bigotry views to,or go play with the traffic or urself
Addios (fckoff) Comprendi
As u clearly has some kind of unhealthy obsession with me sorry to burst your bubble but the feeling is most certainly not mutual
Shaz4679 1 month ago
@MrMickroach zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Shaz4679 1 month ago
As for that Tammy Vosper, what a credible woman she is; her and her daughter were charged with burglary during last year's riots. I don't know whether she was guilty or not, but I think it is only fair that we assume she was in the same way she was content to slander the five accused before any were convicted of the murder.
theporksicle 1 month ago
hahahhahahha so glad to know that two of the Racist, uneducated filth are now starting a good 17 year stretch.....doooooh ...not so cocky now huh????.loooooooooooooool...RIP Stephen finallyxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
1978chelly 1 month ago 4
@1978chelly
my comments exactly lol
Shaz4679 1 month ago 4
@1978chelly
ahmen
Shaz4679 1 month ago
Lady called shaz4679 wrote this on one of her video uploads, and told me I was racist when I questioned her partiality:- @looseball1980
Nice to know that some of the white members on here actually have morals what they did was disgusting and they deserve to be punished I actual cried when I heard he verdict as 18 years has been along time coming maybe Doreen & Neville will now be able to find some kind of closure RIP Stephen
Shaz4679 2 days ago
MrMickroach 1 month ago
@MrMickroach
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz no longer feeding this troll who is stalking me on all my posts purely because secretly he wants some black ass
Shaz4679 1 month ago
@Shaz4679 A black ass? Funny thats the wrong colour for an ass...blacl asses do not exist! What does exist are black people who play tyhe race card too much and are in fact extremely racist themselves. As for stalking you, if that is your picture, best dream on girl....you sure am ugly!
MrMickroach 1 month ago
Some people here posting comments are just sick uneducated savages. Show some respect.
BRUTUALTRUTH 1 month ago
@BRUTUALTRUTH
some all that are posting such negative vermin are
Shaz4679 1 month ago
Lol @ Whitenightsuk, where were you educated?!? were you educated at all?? The only reason this case has become so notorious is because of how the justice system failed, the Met were responsible for the feral 5 walking free - now 2 of the animals are locked up we just need to round up the rest of the herd! Why are you hating 'niggas' so much? Stephen Lawrence had much more to offer Britain than the 5 scumbag 'whites' that killed him!
Your a looser, your kids will be bacon eating loosers too.
uneeeque1 1 month ago 7
@uneeeque1 @WHITEKNIGHTSUK Yahweh forbids the eating of swine flesh.
DavidYahweh 1 month ago 3
@uneeeque1
well said as.Stephen came from a decent hardworking family background has no criminal record or dealings with the police. Norris dad was a drug dealer, all those boys families are vermin lowlifes, all of though 5 boys have criminal records all unemployed ,
Shaz4679 1 month ago 4
YEAH, like bacon with cheese !
WHITEKNIGHSTUK 1 month ago 12
@WHITEKNIGHSTUK Do you remember the Barron Knights?
JigabooJizz 1 month ago 8
@WHITEKNIGHSTUK SEND ME MORE CHILD PORN PLZ
LieSomeMorePIease 1 month ago 7
Disturbing. People are people at the end of the day. If you stab someone, he bleeds to death, whether he is white or a "nigger" as so many bigots on here put it. By the way, I don't condone black crime against whites, either, and am not a do-gooder, just a member of the human race. Pity there are not more out there like me.
lecturer09 1 month ago 2
who gives a fuck !!!!!!!!
so what if the nigger got stabbed and died !!!!!!
and what if his family are suffering ?? good !
how many blacks have stabbed whites ?? fucking loads !!! so when i put 2 and 2 together and sum it up !! i really could not give a fuck for him or his nigger family !!!! shit theirs one thing i did forget to mention, i hope they get out of prison very soon, well at least for next christmas lol, id like to buy them a drink..... .fuck the niggers at the end of the day!
WHITEKNIGHSTUK 1 month ago 4
@WHITEKNIGHSTUK do you like bacon? i luv it :)
theBaconBluesBand 1 month ago 13
@theBaconBluesBand Im with ya mum she loves it up the rear end mate while she listens to Bob Marley,she loves Jammin to reggae and eating rice and peas and cheating on ya dad with blackmen who are well endowed!!!!!!!!
mclife1 1 month ago