As far as I know, there is no way to make the V6 PCM work. I used a V8 PCM (from an 06 GT). Doug at BamaChips even tried to make the V6 PCM work (so PATS would work), but it was a no-go.
You were probably looking at the 4v 5.4L engine (from the GT500). There is at least one supercharger for the 3v 5.4L, but it's not made by Ford.
I got my engine from Certified Auto Recylers on Ebay for around $1500 shipped. Got a great deal. I had the block rebuilt locally, but had problems with some aftermarket heads. I eventually got a another stock 5.4L 3v and cleaned it up and am running that for now. I'm in the middle of a twin turbo install currently. Vids soon.
@cabuzzi Did you purchase the second engine from Certified Auto Recyclers? I'm preparing to put a 4.6 3v in my Sn95 and looking for good places to pick up an assembly... How do you rate them? I've seen your issues with MMR short blocks too... Do you still do business with them?
I purchased the first engine from Certified Auto Recyclers. The guys are great. The first engine had a broken starter bracket. They shipped me another one free-of-charge. I think the guy you’d want to talk with is Roy… IIRC. I purchased everything I needed to build up that block from MMR, but had multiple problems with the heads (3 engine failures before the cause was figured out). MMR has since replaced the engine with a forged 1000 HP shortblock with warranty.
I am working on a 2006 5,4l, 3V in an old 56 f100. auto. seems I will need the custom ford harness as well. (FordInstShtM-6017-463V_54SC.pdf).. and a custom auto tranny controller too (Performance Automotive is one selection)..
I'm not familiar with that harness. My biggest concern would with be the automatic transmission you use and whether or not you will be able to get it to "lockup". All newer transmissions electronic lockup and are controlled through the PCM. If you're using an older transmission (with mechanical lockup), it won't be a problem. Maybe that harness provides for an electronic lockup... I dunno.
the ford racing harness eliminates most of that difficulty. if you google search on that doc name, it gives you the instructions for installation.. really mostly plug & play. plug in the custom PCM, wire up power & ground, plug in the throttle pedal, rest is stock (o2 sensors, speed sensor...)
the hardest, in my opinion, is swapping the harness.
It really isn't that bad... as long as you don't need to take out the dash. I know on the newer Mustangs, there are separate harnesses (engine, battery, chassis, etc...). However, the only custom I've seen (to put a 5.0L Coyote engine in an 05-09 S197) runs to the dash area. Not sure why it does, especially since you cannot use the older gauge cluster with the newer PCM...
@cabuzzi I was just thinking of doin the 5.0 Coyote swap to my 2006 V6 mustang, is there any videos of the swap you were talkin about? Do you know any details about the swap?
As for the engine, you'll probably need to disable VCT... unless you can get a modern PCM to work in your truck (would be difficult). Again, it depends on the harness. If the harness allows you to use a PCM, then you're golden. If not, you'll need to lock out the VCT. To do that, you can go with the $50 set of Livernois lockouts (small aluminum triangles). If you're going to be running over 500 RWHP, I would recommend getting better lockouts.
It all depends on what your end goals are. Supercharging w/heads and cams to get past 400 RWHP isn't cheap. Easily more than an engine swap. Plus, you can add more power later on down the road (ie: super/turbocharger).
I can't give you a price on cost. I went all out. I can give it rougly:
- Engine: 1500
- Tranny: 500 (3650)
- Intake: 1800
You'll also need: A/C compressor and lines, PS pump, coolant lines, wiring harnesses and ECU, assorted bolts, gaskets, etc...
What was the stock power from the 5.4? i cant remember, i think its 300hp, 350ftlbs. I have the f150 4x4 with the 5.4 but didnt think it had more hp then my stang 4.6. torque yes but i didnt think power.
I got my first one complete and ready to run (but used) for about $1500. I got a spare (since my orginal built engine is down for the count) that needed to be assembled for $900, plus the cost of bolts and gaskets.
Ebay is a good bet. You can find them for anywhere from $1500 to $2500 usually. Look at what theyre giving you with the engine (you cannot use much of it) and ask how many miles are on it. Ask if they have a guarantee. Finally, make sure they're reputable sellers
I used a TR6060. D&D makes a complete kit for our cars. Just let them know what kind of rear end you have, of course. You'd be better off with an 8.8" GT take-off rear end. That way, you don't have to mess around with the V6 driveshaft flange.
Ahh, if you're starting from a GT you're gold. The T3650 will bolt right up. You might want to talk with Don at D&D Performance about the clutch/flywheel. I'm not sure if they're compatible (I'm pretty sure they are, though).
Oh, and you might wanna rethink the compression. Modular motors love a 9.5+ :1 CR. Unless you're planning on running a positive-displacement blower (which will make up for the lower compression down low), I would stick with flat-top pistons. I can't remember who makes the posi blower for the 5.4L 3v (Whipple?), but if you're using that with more than 9lbs of boost on stock pistons, def go with lower CR forged ones.
if this engine came from a ford lighting i think the best way is just to put a supercharger instead of twin turbo because the Ford GT has the same engine from the ford lightning well i dont know i prolly wont make sense but im just saying that Ford Lightning Supercharge Engine is the same engine from the Ford GT
Well, I am doing the same swap, but hopefully taking and easier route. I am trying to find a 04+ truck complete with 5.4 3v and the 4R75W. I am going to swap the whole thing and add a Roush supercharger. Using the F150 ECU, stock engine it is good for 515hp and 550tq with no custom manifold. I would rather use a taller hood and be done with it. and the 4R75W is good with minor mods up to 1000hp.
Going with a posi-displacement blower would solve the costly intake manifold issue and F/I at the same time. I'm not sure that transmission will work in the Mustang, though. My guess would be no, but I'd love to see what comes of it.
As for the ECU, you're not talking about using the F150 one, are you? I can almost guarantee you it will not work. Your best bet is to find a GT ECU that matches the year of your car's chassis, then buy the same year GT wiring harness from Ford.
The auto tranny is one of the biggest attractions for me to do the swap. The tail shaft needs to be swapped to a mustang version. Other then that, this tranny came in Mustangs, so it should be a minor issue. And I am going with a Manual valve body, so the computer is taken out of the picture in it's operation. This going to be mostly a track car, but I still want PS, AC, etc
The ECU is an undecided. I have also seen most people go with the GT ECU. So I need to look into it more.
No. If you have an auto, you should stick with an auto.
The V6 and V8 autos are almost identical, however, I do not think you can reuse the V6 one. The V6 has a different bell housing, if I'm not mistaken.
Your best bet is to get a GT auto tranny from Ebay or a junkyard. I'm thinking around $500? I'm a manual guy, so I'm sure you can get some better advice some place like the Mustang Collective (dot com)
im trying to do the same with my v6, i dont know if i should wait out my factory warranty then put in an engine or put in a crate engine or one off a gt...how much did the whole thing cost? without labor if you did it through a shop
Shoot me a message and I'll give you my email address. There's a lot to this swap. If you're looking to swap to a V8 on the cheap, go with a 4.6L 3v. If you can't find one from a wrecked GT, there are some 4.6L 3v engines in 2004 (non-heritage) F150s, also. You'd just need a GT intake manifold and all the belt-driven accessories.
It cost way too much. I didn't have a lot to go off of, as the swap hadn't been done before. Luckily a guy on the ModFords forums jumped in on the same swap, starting with GT though. Between the two of us, I think we ran into just about every conceivable problem.
If you're really interested in doing the swap, I would concentrate on getting a good engine/tranny first. The biggest roadblock is the intake manifold. I had to get a custom one from MMR (shown as the "Spyder" on their site).
Hmmm... spoken like a true "I don't really know what I'm talking about but I'll post anyway" kinda guy.
I can enlighten you with one statement: There's no replacement for displacement.
All other things being equal, a bigger engine makes more power. Sure, you can take an engine with half the N/A HP and turbocharge it, but people fail to realize... wait, you can boost a V8, too!
Oh, and the proper grammar would be "should HAVE kept the 6". But you're still in school, I'll cut you a break
can you pm me on how much did it cost u?pls im really trying to get my stang at the same lvl but i still don't understand how u got it with only 3v...i mean how did u do it exactly..im rly looking forward to ur response...hope u can be of help...sry for the bother
man he doesnt even know what his talkin about theres nothing better than drinving or racing lol a turbocharged v8 and im not an american muscle fan im more into the jap imports but i can tell from experience that there is nothing better forget v4 v6 6iL when its about a turbo v8
I agree..although I have a six. I'd definitely take an 8. I'm planning on getting a procharger or doing a swap, but not sure how hard the swap is and it seems like it was very hard from one of your comments.
Either way I will love my pony =]
oh yeah...Great job on the stang can't wait to see it s/c.
Uh wasn't that the motor that was in the mustang cobra R? And isn't it that same motor that is in the GT500 just supercharged? Obv. if the guy can make 400 hp in a V6 I'd love to see what he can do with a big mod motor....Isn't that what hotrodding is all about?
Actually, the motor in the GT500 is a 4v DOHC. This engine is closer design to the 4.6L in the GT. It's a 3v with the same pistons, different crank, different rods.
The plan is still twin turbos, though I'm trying to decide who to go with.
Yeah I actually looked after I posted that comment. Either way though if the 3v is as much of a step over the two valve as it is in the mustang some serious power is there for the taking with either a blower or a turbo. The Lightning pickup was essentially a stock truck long block with a supercharger bolted on and they made what 390 hp or something and guys tune it to way more on the stock internals.
I was seeing it as you used the heads off of the truck. Therefore it would've been a longblock with a low RPM range. I later realized you used the heads of the mustang.
Actually, the engine comes from a 2004+ F150. The 5.4L 3v (2004+) from the F150 uses the exact same heads and cams as the 4.6L on the Mustang GT... right down to the springs.
If the rev limiter is set that low on the F150s, I'd have no idea on Earth why...
The which manifold? The stock exhaust manifolds didn't even come close to fitting. Stock GT manifolds and after market shorty headers also failed because the 2-bolt flange sat right on the steering column.
I eventually went with a set of Pacesetter long tubes, which happened to easily clear the steering column.
As for the intake manifold, I had one custom made by MMR. The truck manifold would've been a terrible performer, if it had even come close to fitting under the hood (which it didn't)
For anyone interested, I'll be selling the kit for $4500 + shipping. The kit is 100% complete with a lot of new parts (including a brand new, never used D1SC blower that ATI sent me). My friend at ATI will take care of any needs you might have in the future. He would prefer I sell the kit to someone would continue to do testing for them (I tested several different D1SC revisions for them), but that's not mandatory.
The kit comes with 3-core intercooler, polished D1SC, tuner, injectors, etc..
where did you find a supercharger for your 4.0liter engine? because i've been looking everywhere and i cannot seem to locate one. And have you ever found a turbo charger for one?
go look up a muffler shop in your area and ask them about custom turbo fabrication... they should know what they're doing and could fabricate you a custom turbo kit within a day or 2
The tranny is a TR6060 from D&D Performance. I got it as a complete bolt in kit, which will also work on a stock GT. Talk to Dave there. He can help you.
You could also use the stock GT 5-speed, which would lower the cost of a swap considerably. I really wanted the 6-speed.
The factory GT manifold will not work. I am working with Jim @ TurboHP to get a set of adapter plates made. These will allow a GT intake to fit the 3v 5.4L from an F150. They're still a ways out, though...
i was looking into a v6 stroker from ssm u may have changed my mind what transmission did you use? and does the ecm from the f150 work with the guages and everything with the car?
As far as I know, no one... not even SSM, has come up with a stroker kit for the 4.0L V6. There is a kit for the 2004 and below 3.8L, though. There are some very technical difficulties to overcome with stroking out the 4.0L. Maybe Tom has figured them out... I don't know.
The only way to make this swap work is with a PCM from a GT. Try to get an ECU/PCM the same model year of your car, as some things have changed.
What's the manifold on that? Looks like a Hogans's. Also, what had to be done to the ECU to make it deal with the extra displacement or did it just accept the new cfm rate?
The intake is a custom-made MMR "Spyder" manifold made to accommodate a GT500 throttle body.
The displacement change required me to modify a few areas of the tune. There is a simple "engine displacement" section, which had to be changed from 4.6 to 5.4. There is also a table for the "standard air charge", which needed to be recalculated for the larger engine. It was as easy as calculating the percent size increase and multiplying it across the table.
Forgot to mention, I had to (and am still working on) modifying the mass air transfer function to fix the air-fuel ratio. The original GT MTF is way off due to the MMR stage 3 heads, stage 2 turbo cams, as well as the different manifold size/flow.
this is the F150 motor correct? I been wanting to do a swap to my 07 but looking at 4.6 DOHC motors what is this rwhp and torque? I been thinking about finding a 5.4 but whats involved so I dont get ripped?
The 4v 5.4L is in my opinion not economically feasible. Places are charging 8-10k just for the engine alone. A 3v 5.4L is practically interchangeable with the 4.6L 3v and is a much easier swap to boot. Almost all the GT stuff (ECU, wiring harness, cooling lines, etc...) will work. The only issue is the intake, but I'm working with Jim @ TurboHP to get a set of adapter plates made so you can use the 4.6L GT intake on the 3v 5.4L.
Like I've said in other comments, the biggest hurdle with the 5.4L is the intake. The GT is not wide enough, and there's no way in hell the F150 intake (even if it didn't suck) would fit under the Mustang hood. I got around this by installing a custom-built MMR intake. The problem with that was that I had to build custom fuel, heater, and coolant lines. I also had to rig up the CAI tubing using a flared extension.
As for the two motors, it's difficult to compare their factory hp/tq numbers because they are in totally different vehicles. For lack, of a better explanation, the PCM in the Mustang will simply "run" the 5.4L better than the F150 PCM would.
Other than that, you only have factory HP specs to compare the two. The 4.6L is rated at 300HP/320TQ. The 5.4L is rated at 300HP/365TQ.
How will the Mustang PCM run the 5.4 better that the F150 PCM? You will have a custom tune anyways. I would rather have the 4.6 in the mustang. It has a shorter stroke and can make more HP that the 5.4 (which will make more tq). Plus you get higher revs. Just over all I feel the 4.6 is a better motor. I have the 5.4, and getting more hp seems harder than the 4.6. But I would like to know why the mustang pcm would work better.
Longer stroke = higher torque. HP is a rating of power applied over time, so more HP does NOT equal more torque. I don't mind chatting up on YouTube about this stuff, but this is really basic. You should learn some more about how engines make power before you come on here and tell me why the 4.6L is a better choice...
Dude chill out! I didn't make a post to your video to argue with you, and I thought what you did was bad ass, but now you're being a jerk. Plus, I do happen to know what I am talking about. HP is a number that relates how much torque the engine is making at certain RPM. more tq at a higher rpm = more HP. The 5.4 does not make as much tq at HIGH rpms as the 4.6. All I was saying is that the 4.6 is (I think) a better motor for a car and the 5.4 for a heavy truck..because of where the tq is made.
thats like saying my 93 mustang with a 460 big block that puts down 450tq @ 2100rpm's is a bad idea. You would WANT low end torque rather than high end torque. THATS what gets your ass off the line! As for the 5.4 swap cabuzzi, very nice job! Im sure you love the torque it puts down and the extra hp as well. I would've went 4V but the 3V is getting better and catching on FAST. Also ash, he probably has a custom tune from SCT or Diablosport. Both great tuners!
As far as the PCM goes... where do you think the 4.6L GT gets its extra power from, in comparison to the 4.6L F150? It's not from the tune alone. Both engines have the same displacement, cams, firing order, etc...
The Spanish Oaks PCM in the Mustang is a leap year ahead of the F150's PCM.
And the F150 (04-08) does not use the same 4.6 as the newer mustangs. The f150 4.6 uses a 2v and the new body mustang uses a 3v. That is why there is a power difference.
Here's another way to look at the differences between the Mustang and the F150.
There actually was a 4.6L option in 2004. The compression was a bit lower (9.3:1 instead of the 9.8:1 the GT has), but it was rated SIGNIFICANTLY lower in HP/TQ than the GT.
This site has all the specs on the 2004 F150 engines. The 4.6L in the 2004 F150 was rated at 230HP/293TQ. A far cry from what basically the same engine does in the Mustang GT 300HP/320TQ.
sweet ride man. where did you buy the motor from and how bad was the damage? I have been thinking of swapping out my 2006's v6 motor and dropping in a 5.4L. any information would be most appreciated.
I got the motor from an auto engine recycler on Ebay... about 1600 shipped for the complete block. It probably wouldn't ran fine w/o a rebuild, but since my intentions were to put twin turbos on it and throw a sizable amount of boost at it, I decided to have it forged before I put it in the car.
this car sounds great,,,i cant wait to get get my car back..i just took to the dealer..i have changed the cams and added cam phaser from comp cams the car wont start..i have to wait for few days then the turbo is going in ...all the best to you
It is the MMR intake manifold, and I HAVE had a lot of problems with it. The car is currently down while they fix some SERIOUS design flaws. They are, however, working hard to fix it. I hope to have it back within a week or two. I'll post up again when it's back on the car.
yea i saw this 5.0 cammer motor but a friend of mine said id have 2 change alo of shit cause the cammers like a cobra motor u know? or something along those lines was this swap easy?
If the 5.0 cammer motor is a 4v, your friend is right. Still, if you're moving from a V6, you're going to be changing most of the stuff you'd be changing with a 3v swap anyways. Instead of buying GT stuff, you'd be buying GT500 stuff.
From what I've heard, Ford has a sweet new 3v block out. It would take some work, but it would be a unique project.
If I were you, I'd stick with a 3v engine. A 2v would require some changes to the wiring harness. What changes, I don't exactly know. The GT harness and PCM were 98% good for the 3v 5.4L from the F150, which is one of the main reasons I chose that engine.
As for the security, which is called PATS (passive anti-theft system), you'll need a tuner that can disable it. I use the Sniper Commando tuning package. I still get a random CEL related to PATS, but Sniper is working on removing that too. Before I disabled PATS in the tune, the car wouldn't even start.
You could also have it towed to the dealer after you're done with the swap. They can mate the PCM and dash cluster so you can leave PATS enabled.
The reman alternator was bad... waiting on a new one. I took it for a ride around the block. I got a wrench light due to the GT500 throttle body. I'm playing around with the airflow settings in the tune to make it go away. Hopefully I'll be able to post a video of it on the road soon!
Yeah I can't wait to see, that engine does look sick. Have a video in-cabin and have some try to keep up with you and to catch video that way too, hahah
I'm going to do something krazy with my grand Marquis I was thinking of 5.4 or from the ford lighting
luivillslugger 1 month ago
Good Job man the car sounds awesome, I would like to see it after the turbo gets installed
locoediee 5 months ago
@locoediee
Check the rest of my videos. The turbos are in. 511 rwhp and 555 rwtq at 7.5psi.
cabuzzi 5 months ago
@locoediee
The turbos have been installed for a few weeks now. Check out my newer videos.
cabuzzi 5 months ago
how much does the whole new engine cost?
RichKilla86ers 5 months ago
was there any problems with the mustang v6 computer hooked up to a v8 /
max5billion1 5 months ago
@max5billion1
As far as I know, there is no way to make the V6 PCM work. I used a V8 PCM (from an 06 GT). Doug at BamaChips even tried to make the V6 PCM work (so PATS would work), but it was a no-go.
cabuzzi 5 months ago
Where did you/can you get the engine?
I was looking at Ford and they have the Supercharged one! Is this the one in the video?
nigeleckzdee 9 months ago
@nigeleckzdee
You were probably looking at the 4v 5.4L engine (from the GT500). There is at least one supercharger for the 3v 5.4L, but it's not made by Ford.
I got my engine from Certified Auto Recylers on Ebay for around $1500 shipped. Got a great deal. I had the block rebuilt locally, but had problems with some aftermarket heads. I eventually got a another stock 5.4L 3v and cleaned it up and am running that for now. I'm in the middle of a twin turbo install currently. Vids soon.
cabuzzi 9 months ago
@cabuzzi Did you purchase the second engine from Certified Auto Recyclers? I'm preparing to put a 4.6 3v in my Sn95 and looking for good places to pick up an assembly... How do you rate them? I've seen your issues with MMR short blocks too... Do you still do business with them?
Texarmageddon 6 months ago
@Texarmageddon
I purchased the first engine from Certified Auto Recyclers. The guys are great. The first engine had a broken starter bracket. They shipped me another one free-of-charge. I think the guy you’d want to talk with is Roy… IIRC. I purchased everything I needed to build up that block from MMR, but had multiple problems with the heads (3 engine failures before the cause was figured out). MMR has since replaced the engine with a forged 1000 HP shortblock with warranty.
cabuzzi 6 months ago
so badass ....i wish you were my dad lol
playha808 10 months ago
@playha808
Hahaha, my kids definitely love the Mustang. I wonder if I'll ever let them drive it? I guess I have another 8+ years to decide. :)
cabuzzi 10 months ago
I am working on a 2006 5,4l, 3V in an old 56 f100. auto. seems I will need the custom ford harness as well. (FordInstShtM-6017-463V_54SC.pdf).. and a custom auto tranny controller too (Performance Automotive is one selection)..
any other key things to watch for?
thanks
sdetweil 1 year ago
@sdetweil
I'm not familiar with that harness. My biggest concern would with be the automatic transmission you use and whether or not you will be able to get it to "lockup". All newer transmissions electronic lockup and are controlled through the PCM. If you're using an older transmission (with mechanical lockup), it won't be a problem. Maybe that harness provides for an electronic lockup... I dunno.
cabuzzi 1 year ago
@cabuzzi
the Performance Automatic controller is supposed to support lockup.
the Ford harness doesn't provide auto tranny support.
Sam
sam
sdetweil 1 year ago
@sdetweil
So how are you gonna rig it up?
cabuzzi 1 year ago
@cabuzzi
not sure I understand, but..
install the 08 harness to replace the 06 harness, as the custom harness only works with 08-10 connectors.
install the custom ford racing harness, this comes with the non-pats, ... computer, and a throttle pedal kit.
install the Performance automatic controller to control the tranny.. plugs into the harness as the original did they tell me
block off the fuel line return (as the ford racing computer only works for non-return fuel rail.
ididit column
sdetweil 1 year ago
@sdetweil
Sounds like a plan. Definitely a lot of work and undoubtably some custom wiring. It will definitely be cool to see, though.
cabuzzi 1 year ago
@cabuzzi
the ford racing harness eliminates most of that difficulty. if you google search on that doc name, it gives you the instructions for installation.. really mostly plug & play. plug in the custom PCM, wire up power & ground, plug in the throttle pedal, rest is stock (o2 sensors, speed sensor...)
the hardest, in my opinion, is swapping the harness.
sdetweil 1 year ago
@sdetweil
It really isn't that bad... as long as you don't need to take out the dash. I know on the newer Mustangs, there are separate harnesses (engine, battery, chassis, etc...). However, the only custom I've seen (to put a 5.0L Coyote engine in an 05-09 S197) runs to the dash area. Not sure why it does, especially since you cannot use the older gauge cluster with the newer PCM...
cabuzzi 1 year ago
@cabuzzi I was just thinking of doin the 5.0 Coyote swap to my 2006 V6 mustang, is there any videos of the swap you were talkin about? Do you know any details about the swap?
Biggoss 6 months ago
@sdetweil
As for the engine, you'll probably need to disable VCT... unless you can get a modern PCM to work in your truck (would be difficult). Again, it depends on the harness. If the harness allows you to use a PCM, then you're golden. If not, you'll need to lock out the VCT. To do that, you can go with the $50 set of Livernois lockouts (small aluminum triangles). If you're going to be running over 500 RWHP, I would recommend getting better lockouts.
cabuzzi 1 year ago
@cabuzzi In reading your other comment... i see 500hp you would recommend lockouts right?
Texarmageddon 6 months ago
@Texarmageddon
Lockouts are for aggressive cams. If you stick with stock cams, you will not need them, regardless of HP.
cabuzzi 6 months ago
I think I am going to skip on supercharging my V6 and swap the engine like you did. i just need to know where you got everyhting and roughly the cost
wonderbreadkw 1 year ago
@wonderbreadkw
It all depends on what your end goals are. Supercharging w/heads and cams to get past 400 RWHP isn't cheap. Easily more than an engine swap. Plus, you can add more power later on down the road (ie: super/turbocharger).
I can't give you a price on cost. I went all out. I can give it rougly:
- Engine: 1500
- Tranny: 500 (3650)
- Intake: 1800
You'll also need: A/C compressor and lines, PS pump, coolant lines, wiring harnesses and ECU, assorted bolts, gaskets, etc...
cabuzzi 1 year ago
Where did you get the intake Manifold? Is it Custom? I've been scouring the Net for A 5.4 3V and can't find crap.
PBritty18 1 year ago
@PBritty18
You can get the manifold from JPC Racing. Ask for Justin and tell him Chris Cabuzzi sent you.
cabuzzi 1 year ago
What was the stock power from the 5.4? i cant remember, i think its 300hp, 350ftlbs. I have the f150 4x4 with the 5.4 but didnt think it had more hp then my stang 4.6. torque yes but i didnt think power.
eltigreandthewalrus 1 year ago
@eltigreandthewalrus
If I remember correctly, the factory rating is 300 HP and 365 TQ.
Of course, that's before drivetrain losses.
With the aftermarket heads, cams and intake, I was running 325 RWHP. At the crank (how the factory rates it) that would be around 375 HP.
cabuzzi 1 year ago
How much were you able to get the triton engine for?
i have been looking for some used engines, but have no luck.
do you pointing me the direction?
ohmibuddha 1 year ago
@ohmibuddha
I got my first one complete and ready to run (but used) for about $1500. I got a spare (since my orginal built engine is down for the count) that needed to be assembled for $900, plus the cost of bolts and gaskets.
Ebay is a good bet. You can find them for anywhere from $1500 to $2500 usually. Look at what theyre giving you with the engine (you cannot use much of it) and ask how many miles are on it. Ask if they have a guarantee. Finally, make sure they're reputable sellers
cabuzzi 1 year ago
did you use a t3650 mustang trans or what tranny you use in this swap, working on my own.
Sceviourzx3 2 years ago
@Sceviourzx3
I used a TR6060. D&D makes a complete kit for our cars. Just let them know what kind of rear end you have, of course. You'd be better off with an 8.8" GT take-off rear end. That way, you don't have to mess around with the V6 driveshaft flange.
cabuzzi 2 years ago
my car is a 4.6 already with t3650 an 8.8 with 4.10's
was looking at putting a low compression 5.4. was curious if i cant mount my trans on the 5.4 or not.
Sceviourzx3 2 years ago
Ahh, if you're starting from a GT you're gold. The T3650 will bolt right up. You might want to talk with Don at D&D Performance about the clutch/flywheel. I'm not sure if they're compatible (I'm pretty sure they are, though).
cabuzzi 2 years ago
Oh, and you might wanna rethink the compression. Modular motors love a 9.5+ :1 CR. Unless you're planning on running a positive-displacement blower (which will make up for the lower compression down low), I would stick with flat-top pistons. I can't remember who makes the posi blower for the 5.4L 3v (Whipple?), but if you're using that with more than 9lbs of boost on stock pistons, def go with lower CR forged ones.
cabuzzi 2 years ago
if this engine came from a ford lighting i think the best way is just to put a supercharger instead of twin turbo because the Ford GT has the same engine from the ford lightning well i dont know i prolly wont make sense but im just saying that Ford Lightning Supercharge Engine is the same engine from the Ford GT
Supercharge18 2 years ago
Lightnings never had 3vs.. this is just an F150 5.4L.
mxt2s 2 years ago
Well, I am doing the same swap, but hopefully taking and easier route. I am trying to find a 04+ truck complete with 5.4 3v and the 4R75W. I am going to swap the whole thing and add a Roush supercharger. Using the F150 ECU, stock engine it is good for 515hp and 550tq with no custom manifold. I would rather use a taller hood and be done with it. and the 4R75W is good with minor mods up to 1000hp.
MyFastFords 2 years ago
Going with a posi-displacement blower would solve the costly intake manifold issue and F/I at the same time. I'm not sure that transmission will work in the Mustang, though. My guess would be no, but I'd love to see what comes of it.
As for the ECU, you're not talking about using the F150 one, are you? I can almost guarantee you it will not work. Your best bet is to find a GT ECU that matches the year of your car's chassis, then buy the same year GT wiring harness from Ford.
cabuzzi 2 years ago
The auto tranny is one of the biggest attractions for me to do the swap. The tail shaft needs to be swapped to a mustang version. Other then that, this tranny came in Mustangs, so it should be a minor issue. And I am going with a Manual valve body, so the computer is taken out of the picture in it's operation. This going to be mostly a track car, but I still want PS, AC, etc
The ECU is an undecided. I have also seen most people go with the GT ECU. So I need to look into it more.
MyFastFords 2 years ago
Good luck with the tranny. I've never seen anyone do it, but I don't doubt it can be done.
As for the ECU, I doubt it. I would save yourself the hassle and just get a GT one.
cabuzzi 2 years ago
automatic transmissions are boring a nice 6 speed is fun.
TSHRTL 2 years ago
do i have to change manual trans if i'm swapping V8 to V6?
lexousa 2 years ago
No. If you have an auto, you should stick with an auto.
The V6 and V8 autos are almost identical, however, I do not think you can reuse the V6 one. The V6 has a different bell housing, if I'm not mistaken.
Your best bet is to get a GT auto tranny from Ebay or a junkyard. I'm thinking around $500? I'm a manual guy, so I'm sure you can get some better advice some place like the Mustang Collective (dot com)
cabuzzi 2 years ago
i'm a manual guy too... i just uploaded vid i put gt500 engine in GT it was hard to do on same transmission but it works fine...
lexousa 2 years ago
Oh my gosh!!! My hat is off to you friend! Anybody that can do a swap like this is amazing!
LTERRIP 2 years ago
im trying to do the same with my v6, i dont know if i should wait out my factory warranty then put in an engine or put in a crate engine or one off a gt...how much did the whole thing cost? without labor if you did it through a shop
ADD8oi 2 years ago
Shoot me a message and I'll give you my email address. There's a lot to this swap. If you're looking to swap to a V8 on the cheap, go with a 4.6L 3v. If you can't find one from a wrecked GT, there are some 4.6L 3v engines in 2004 (non-heritage) F150s, also. You'd just need a GT intake manifold and all the belt-driven accessories.
You'll also need:
- 2/3 of GTs AC lines
- Tons of GT coolant lines + thermostat
- GT engine, alternator, and head temp sensor
- Other things I can't remember now
cabuzzi 2 years ago
Think i just jizzed my pants.Nice stang dude,
Ronixwake5656 2 years ago
Thanks!
cabuzzi 2 years ago
How much did it cost you to do this? U had a mechanic do this or u installed it?
Dmustang1976 2 years ago
It cost way too much. I didn't have a lot to go off of, as the swap hadn't been done before. Luckily a guy on the ModFords forums jumped in on the same swap, starting with GT though. Between the two of us, I think we ran into just about every conceivable problem.
If you're really interested in doing the swap, I would concentrate on getting a good engine/tranny first. The biggest roadblock is the intake manifold. I had to get a custom one from MMR (shown as the "Spyder" on their site).
cabuzzi 2 years ago
should of kept the 6
xdavstratx 2 years ago
Hmmm... spoken like a true "I don't really know what I'm talking about but I'll post anyway" kinda guy.
I can enlighten you with one statement: There's no replacement for displacement.
All other things being equal, a bigger engine makes more power. Sure, you can take an engine with half the N/A HP and turbocharge it, but people fail to realize... wait, you can boost a V8, too!
Oh, and the proper grammar would be "should HAVE kept the 6". But you're still in school, I'll cut you a break
cabuzzi 2 years ago
can you pm me on how much did it cost u?pls im really trying to get my stang at the same lvl but i still don't understand how u got it with only 3v...i mean how did u do it exactly..im rly looking forward to ur response...hope u can be of help...sry for the bother
vlad10090 2 years ago
man he doesnt even know what his talkin about theres nothing better than drinving or racing lol a turbocharged v8 and im not an american muscle fan im more into the jap imports but i can tell from experience that there is nothing better forget v4 v6 6iL when its about a turbo v8
RICHBOIII1 2 years ago
I agree..although I have a six. I'd definitely take an 8. I'm planning on getting a procharger or doing a swap, but not sure how hard the swap is and it seems like it was very hard from one of your comments.
Either way I will love my pony =]
oh yeah...Great job on the stang can't wait to see it s/c.
lieutenant671 2 years ago
Keep up the guitar playing, though. It seems like I never have enough time to play nowadays...
cabuzzi 2 years ago
that motherfucker OMG i cant explain man oh thats a gotdamn MONSTER
lovebasket22 2 years ago
Long-stroke motors are just not meant for cars IMO. If it comes in a truck. Leave it in a truck.
What does that motor red line at? Like 5800? Probably less.
08HellionGT 2 years ago
Uh wasn't that the motor that was in the mustang cobra R? And isn't it that same motor that is in the GT500 just supercharged? Obv. if the guy can make 400 hp in a V6 I'd love to see what he can do with a big mod motor....Isn't that what hotrodding is all about?
gpotteiger 2 years ago
I wanna see ford put the ecoboost system on their v8s. The 3.5 V6 already outperforms the 4.6 v8, and comes damn close to the 5.4 V8.
rubber314chicken 2 years ago
ecoboost is what Ford needs. I'm really disappointed to see them hesitate to put it in the Mustangs.
cabuzzi 2 years ago
Yea. Hopefully they are just doing it to limit all the kinks they will have to work out. But after that hopefully it goes in everything.
rubber314chicken 2 years ago
Actually, the motor in the GT500 is a 4v DOHC. This engine is closer design to the 4.6L in the GT. It's a 3v with the same pistons, different crank, different rods.
The plan is still twin turbos, though I'm trying to decide who to go with.
cabuzzi 2 years ago
Yeah I actually looked after I posted that comment. Either way though if the 3v is as much of a step over the two valve as it is in the mustang some serious power is there for the taking with either a blower or a turbo. The Lightning pickup was essentially a stock truck long block with a supercharger bolted on and they made what 390 hp or something and guys tune it to way more on the stock internals.
gpotteiger 2 years ago
Thanks for your opinion, though I'm not sure what your point is.
3v engines like to rev. With the heads, cams, springs, etc.... MMR is recommending a 6800rpm rev limit.
I'm guessing you know nothing about this build. Better to ask than assume.
cabuzzi 2 years ago
I was seeing it as you used the heads off of the truck. Therefore it would've been a longblock with a low RPM range. I later realized you used the heads of the mustang.
Long night, my mistake.
08HellionGT 2 years ago
Actually, the engine comes from a 2004+ F150. The 5.4L 3v (2004+) from the F150 uses the exact same heads and cams as the 4.6L on the Mustang GT... right down to the springs.
If the rev limiter is set that low on the F150s, I'd have no idea on Earth why...
cabuzzi 2 years ago
So for the swap did you just use the factory mustang's ecu and just keep the heads, cams that came in the block?
08HellionGT 2 years ago
that is fucking awesome
scbca 2 years ago
Hey cabuzzi,
I was wondering what you did about the headers when you did the swap. Did you keep the stock manifolds in place or what? Thanks!
bigwilly43729 2 years ago
The which manifold? The stock exhaust manifolds didn't even come close to fitting. Stock GT manifolds and after market shorty headers also failed because the 2-bolt flange sat right on the steering column.
I eventually went with a set of Pacesetter long tubes, which happened to easily clear the steering column.
As for the intake manifold, I had one custom made by MMR. The truck manifold would've been a terrible performer, if it had even come close to fitting under the hood (which it didn't)
cabuzzi 2 years ago
green block looks sweet
Domman56 3 years ago
how much would you be selling it for?
GarrettBirch 3 years ago
I just sent you a message.
cabuzzi 3 years ago
how much are you selling it for?
arrjay 3 years ago
For anyone interested, I'll be selling the kit for $4500 + shipping. The kit is 100% complete with a lot of new parts (including a brand new, never used D1SC blower that ATI sent me). My friend at ATI will take care of any needs you might have in the future. He would prefer I sell the kit to someone would continue to do testing for them (I tested several different D1SC revisions for them), but that's not mandatory.
The kit comes with 3-core intercooler, polished D1SC, tuner, injectors, etc..
cabuzzi 3 years ago
where did you find a supercharger for your 4.0liter engine? because i've been looking everywhere and i cannot seem to locate one. And have you ever found a turbo charger for one?
GarrettBirch 3 years ago
Mine's a custom kit from ProCharger. I will be selling it within the next few weeks, if you are interested.
cabuzzi 3 years ago
you can always go xcharger
NOBANSHEES 3 years ago
go look up a muffler shop in your area and ask them about custom turbo fabrication... they should know what they're doing and could fabricate you a custom turbo kit within a day or 2
thefourshowflip 2 years ago
scratch that. i read all the posts. stil didnt mention the tranny tho. and will the factory intake manifold work?
echapman38 3 years ago
The tranny is a TR6060 from D&D Performance. I got it as a complete bolt in kit, which will also work on a stock GT. Talk to Dave there. He can help you.
You could also use the stock GT 5-speed, which would lower the cost of a swap considerably. I really wanted the 6-speed.
The factory GT manifold will not work. I am working with Jim @ TurboHP to get a set of adapter plates made. These will allow a GT intake to fit the 3v 5.4L from an F150. They're still a ways out, though...
cabuzzi 3 years ago
i was looking into a v6 stroker from ssm u may have changed my mind what transmission did you use? and does the ecm from the f150 work with the guages and everything with the car?
echapman38 3 years ago
As far as I know, no one... not even SSM, has come up with a stroker kit for the 4.0L V6. There is a kit for the 2004 and below 3.8L, though. There are some very technical difficulties to overcome with stroking out the 4.0L. Maybe Tom has figured them out... I don't know.
The only way to make this swap work is with a PCM from a GT. Try to get an ECU/PCM the same model year of your car, as some things have changed.
cabuzzi 3 years ago
What's the manifold on that? Looks like a Hogans's. Also, what had to be done to the ECU to make it deal with the extra displacement or did it just accept the new cfm rate?
usbiker133t 3 years ago
The intake is a custom-made MMR "Spyder" manifold made to accommodate a GT500 throttle body.
The displacement change required me to modify a few areas of the tune. There is a simple "engine displacement" section, which had to be changed from 4.6 to 5.4. There is also a table for the "standard air charge", which needed to be recalculated for the larger engine. It was as easy as calculating the percent size increase and multiplying it across the table.
cabuzzi 3 years ago
Forgot to mention, I had to (and am still working on) modifying the mass air transfer function to fix the air-fuel ratio. The original GT MTF is way off due to the MMR stage 3 heads, stage 2 turbo cams, as well as the different manifold size/flow.
cabuzzi 3 years ago
this is the F150 motor correct? I been wanting to do a swap to my 07 but looking at 4.6 DOHC motors what is this rwhp and torque? I been thinking about finding a 5.4 but whats involved so I dont get ripped?
oxcide101 3 years ago
The 4v 5.4L is in my opinion not economically feasible. Places are charging 8-10k just for the engine alone. A 3v 5.4L is practically interchangeable with the 4.6L 3v and is a much easier swap to boot. Almost all the GT stuff (ECU, wiring harness, cooling lines, etc...) will work. The only issue is the intake, but I'm working with Jim @ TurboHP to get a set of adapter plates made so you can use the 4.6L GT intake on the 3v 5.4L.
The engine was from a 2004 F150.
cabuzzi 3 years ago
Like I've said in other comments, the biggest hurdle with the 5.4L is the intake. The GT is not wide enough, and there's no way in hell the F150 intake (even if it didn't suck) would fit under the Mustang hood. I got around this by installing a custom-built MMR intake. The problem with that was that I had to build custom fuel, heater, and coolant lines. I also had to rig up the CAI tubing using a flared extension.
cabuzzi 3 years ago
As for the two motors, it's difficult to compare their factory hp/tq numbers because they are in totally different vehicles. For lack, of a better explanation, the PCM in the Mustang will simply "run" the 5.4L better than the F150 PCM would.
Other than that, you only have factory HP specs to compare the two. The 4.6L is rated at 300HP/320TQ. The 5.4L is rated at 300HP/365TQ.
cabuzzi 3 years ago
How will the Mustang PCM run the 5.4 better that the F150 PCM? You will have a custom tune anyways. I would rather have the 4.6 in the mustang. It has a shorter stroke and can make more HP that the 5.4 (which will make more tq). Plus you get higher revs. Just over all I feel the 4.6 is a better motor. I have the 5.4, and getting more hp seems harder than the 4.6. But I would like to know why the mustang pcm would work better.
ashtrey05 3 years ago
Longer stroke = higher torque. HP is a rating of power applied over time, so more HP does NOT equal more torque. I don't mind chatting up on YouTube about this stuff, but this is really basic. You should learn some more about how engines make power before you come on here and tell me why the 4.6L is a better choice...
cabuzzi 3 years ago
Dude chill out! I didn't make a post to your video to argue with you, and I thought what you did was bad ass, but now you're being a jerk. Plus, I do happen to know what I am talking about. HP is a number that relates how much torque the engine is making at certain RPM. more tq at a higher rpm = more HP. The 5.4 does not make as much tq at HIGH rpms as the 4.6. All I was saying is that the 4.6 is (I think) a better motor for a car and the 5.4 for a heavy truck..because of where the tq is made.
ashtrey05 3 years ago
thats like saying my 93 mustang with a 460 big block that puts down 450tq @ 2100rpm's is a bad idea. You would WANT low end torque rather than high end torque. THATS what gets your ass off the line! As for the 5.4 swap cabuzzi, very nice job! Im sure you love the torque it puts down and the extra hp as well. I would've went 4V but the 3V is getting better and catching on FAST. Also ash, he probably has a custom tune from SCT or Diablosport. Both great tuners!
aaronsamuelson 3 years ago
As far as the PCM goes... where do you think the 4.6L GT gets its extra power from, in comparison to the 4.6L F150? It's not from the tune alone. Both engines have the same displacement, cams, firing order, etc...
The Spanish Oaks PCM in the Mustang is a leap year ahead of the F150's PCM.
cabuzzi 3 years ago
And the F150 (04-08) does not use the same 4.6 as the newer mustangs. The f150 4.6 uses a 2v and the new body mustang uses a 3v. That is why there is a power difference.
ashtrey05 3 years ago
Here's another way to look at the differences between the Mustang and the F150.
There actually was a 4.6L option in 2004. The compression was a bit lower (9.3:1 instead of the 9.8:1 the GT has), but it was rated SIGNIFICANTLY lower in HP/TQ than the GT.
This site has all the specs on the 2004 F150 engines. The 4.6L in the 2004 F150 was rated at 230HP/293TQ. A far cry from what basically the same engine does in the Mustang GT 300HP/320TQ.
cabuzzi 3 years ago
sweet ride man. where did you buy the motor from and how bad was the damage? I have been thinking of swapping out my 2006's v6 motor and dropping in a 5.4L. any information would be most appreciated.
lshstigers 3 years ago
I got the motor from an auto engine recycler on Ebay... about 1600 shipped for the complete block. It probably wouldn't ran fine w/o a rebuild, but since my intentions were to put twin turbos on it and throw a sizable amount of boost at it, I decided to have it forged before I put it in the car.
cabuzzi 3 years ago
this car sounds great,,,i cant wait to get get my car back..i just took to the dealer..i have changed the cams and added cam phaser from comp cams the car wont start..i have to wait for few days then the turbo is going in ...all the best to you
toorbeenee 3 years ago
What year/model is your car? What cams did you go with?
cabuzzi 3 years ago
And BTW, that thing sounds BADASS!!!
bigwilly43729 3 years ago
Is that the MMR intake manifold? I was considering this swap, but I don't think the factory 4.6 manifold will work. Can't drop $2K+ on that thing.
bigwilly43729 3 years ago
It is the MMR intake manifold, and I HAVE had a lot of problems with it. The car is currently down while they fix some SERIOUS design flaws. They are, however, working hard to fix it. I hope to have it back within a week or two. I'll post up again when it's back on the car.
cabuzzi 3 years ago
That sucks. I'm sure they'll get you back up soon. They have a pretty solid rep, especially in SoCal.
Guess I'll be sticking with a stroked 5.0 unless someone develops some adapter plates.
Thanks for the response.
bigwilly43729 3 years ago
BEAST 351
right? 351? ya 351
Muscleman361 3 years ago
It's actually a 330 normally. A little more, considering it was bored 20 over.
cabuzzi 3 years ago
NIIIICE
uscar17 3 years ago
Congrats cabuzzi! All that hard work has paid off! Looking damn good, and sounds good too!
S197V6TT 3 years ago
hey im thinking bout doing a swap on mine 2 did u change rear end tranny nd chassi 2?
beanergs 3 years ago
The chassis is the same on the V6, GT and GT500.
You'll want to at least swap to the 8.8". Plenty of places sell the complete 8.8" for less than it would cost to buy setup some aftermarket LSDs.
cabuzzi 3 years ago
yea i saw this 5.0 cammer motor but a friend of mine said id have 2 change alo of shit cause the cammers like a cobra motor u know? or something along those lines was this swap easy?
beanergs 3 years ago
If the 5.0 cammer motor is a 4v, your friend is right. Still, if you're moving from a V6, you're going to be changing most of the stuff you'd be changing with a 3v swap anyways. Instead of buying GT stuff, you'd be buying GT500 stuff.
From what I've heard, Ford has a sweet new 3v block out. It would take some work, but it would be a unique project.
cabuzzi 3 years ago
Hey, I already emailed you, but damn. Someone did it before me.
Do you think a 2004 cobra engine (4.6L with a 5.0L Aluminum block from MMR) would fit in my 05 mustang?
What did you do about the Chipped-key security system?
mustangified 3 years ago
If I were you, I'd stick with a 3v engine. A 2v would require some changes to the wiring harness. What changes, I don't exactly know. The GT harness and PCM were 98% good for the 3v 5.4L from the F150, which is one of the main reasons I chose that engine.
cabuzzi 3 years ago
As for the security, which is called PATS (passive anti-theft system), you'll need a tuner that can disable it. I use the Sniper Commando tuning package. I still get a random CEL related to PATS, but Sniper is working on removing that too. Before I disabled PATS in the tune, the car wouldn't even start.
You could also have it towed to the dealer after you're done with the swap. They can mate the PCM and dash cluster so you can leave PATS enabled.
cabuzzi 3 years ago
The reman alternator was bad... waiting on a new one. I took it for a ride around the block. I got a wrench light due to the GT500 throttle body. I'm playing around with the airflow settings in the tune to make it go away. Hopefully I'll be able to post a video of it on the road soon!
cabuzzi 3 years ago
Hell Yeah!!!!
blueoval505 3 years ago
That is sick man! Can't wait to see more!
BeeRad277 3 years ago
the car sounds awesome, now lets see her run!!!
logicoverload 3 years ago
Maybe this weekend! I got everything I need to finish it up. It won't have full exhaust, but at least I should be able to drive it around a bit.
cabuzzi 3 years ago
Yeah I can't wait to see, that engine does look sick. Have a video in-cabin and have some try to keep up with you and to catch video that way too, hahah
logicoverload 3 years ago
you did it man,
carlo237 3 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Took me long enough! Damn motorcycles...
cabuzzi 3 years ago
i cant wait for a date on it
yamahabanshee350 3 years ago
will the hood fit
yamahabanshee350 3 years ago
It should... It fit just fine before the intake tubing was on. We'll see...
cabuzzi 3 years ago
Hahah, you can hear Zoe screaming in the background!
cabuzzi 3 years ago
haha so thats what the random noise was.nice man! cant wait for any updates!
LordExxion 3 years ago
Yeah... she sounded like the little slugs on "Flushed Away".
cabuzzi 3 years ago
awesome chris!
fazm83 3 years ago