Should The UFC And MMA Make A Superheavyweight Division??

[GladiatorGT]

WorldTravelerMan, you're wrong about it being harder for a heavier man to lose weight. The larger the man, the EASIER it is to loose weight. The reason is, a heavy person loses a smaller percentage of their total body weight. A heavy person carries a lot of water and water-weight is not difficult to lose. Think about it. You really think it's harder for Frank Mir to lose 20 pounds than Kenny Florian? Kenny Florian looks like he'll die if he loses 20 lbs. Ask any wrestler.

[thekkl]

@GladiatorGT Ask any wrestler if you can lose 20 pounds of water weight and still keep fighting effectively. And realistically you aren't going to just lose water to make that cut, you're gonna have to lose muscle too.

[GladiatorGT]

The reason there is no superheavyweight is because it would be a freak show. Healthy humans just don't get that big. The only people who can't make 265 are freaks like Hong Man Cho (brain tumor that caused him to grow out of control), Bob Sapp (loaded to hell on steroids and supplements), Akebono (morbidly obese). Moreover, the heavyweight division is BETTER than the SUPERheavyweight division. A good heavyweight will mop the floor with a superheavyweight freak any day.

[57worldwide]

I think this is a great proposition. Although in the interests of the fighters and their egos, it should be an unrestricted wieght class meaning a kind of return to the old UFC days. It might be interesting for the sport to have a weight class around 230 but some of the heavyweights probably don't want to stay fighting at what you said wouldn't be the 'premier' weight class. There would still be some guys being matched against smaller/bigger fighters but possibly insurance is one of the issues?

[turkeychuck]

yes indeed

[TheRespawnCy]

please go sub to my channal it really helps

[HarisMixes]

dosnt sylvia weaigh 280???

[CavemanJesus4Life]

@HarisMixes Bigfoot Silva, or Tim Sylvia? Timmah now weighs 315lbs, and Bigfoot is 285lbs

[CombatAkasy]

No need for a SHW-Division, just get rid of the 265 limit. It simply makes no sense at all. I mean if I look at myself, I'm 6ft8 and I weigh in at 286 pounds.... If I wanted to compete at the UFC now, and yes I'm the muscular not the fatty fat fat guy, I would somehow have to cut down 20 pounds, which would leave me with a calorie deficit, thus an energy deficit which is not a proper way to go into a fight...

I'm guessing, that stops a lot of athletes from competing.

[daridp]

Judo's Light Heavyweight division is 205-225 and their Heavyweight is 225+. I think thats a good idea for the UFC. I also think that their should be an open division like they have in large grappling tournaments. The open division would allow anybody to compete against anyone else. The "Open" division would allow the question of who is the "best" fighter would be answered.

[CavemanJesus4Life]

@daridp Judo's Heavyweight division is actually 220lbs(100kg), Openweight or Absolute is +220lbs

[daridp]

@CavemanJesus4Life That isn't true under the USJA the largest Judo organization in the US. It might be true for the olympics or E-level tournaments none of which I compete in. I am a solid heavyweight at 270 so I would think I know, especially since a training partner of mine recently switched from heavyweight at 230 to light heavyweight coming in at 210. Or maybe I am just naming the divisions wrong because most Judo tournaments don't have an "open" or "absolute" division anymore.

[CavemanJesus4Life]

@daridp They still do, it sometimes they cancel out the 220lbs division and mix them into the openweight division, I know this cause I too am with the USJA and weigh 260lbs. And I have competed against guys at 280lbs, and most of my teammates have faced guys at that weight. My coach cuts from 230lbs to 220lbs division cause he's a much smaller sized Heavyweight.

[lictor313]

get rid of the 265 weight limit... maybe cap it at 300

[omgstoptakingnames]

guys like brock and carwin have no problems cutting to 265, besides the only fights you would see in a super hw division are the butterbeans, the bob sapps, tim sylvias, or the hong man choi guys, besides guys the athletic 300 pound guys dont go to mma they go to the nfl cause thats where the money is at

[lictor313]

@omgstoptakingnames Brock is optimal at 285- and could get to 290 with ease...

and yes cutting weight is always problematic... especially Lesnar having to drop 20+ pounds before a fight...

[AndrewBehning]

its fine as it is

[Max547]

I think a Cruiserweight division needs to be implemented rather than a super heavyweight. It's a much needed division because guyts like Lesnar and Carwin are true heavyweight's. But a person like Velasquez is a cruiserweight or Dos Santos. I hope MMA implements this division. Another great blog and discussion.

[Orville9999]

couple things.

1. they need to do something. it's completely ridiculous for a guy like Randy Couture fighting a guy like brock lesnar.

2. brock could easily get below 265 if he stopped using steroids.

[misterlunatic]

@Orville9999 1. Randy Couture is not a heavyweight anymore. He never really was a true hw. The 205 div is just the right thing for him.

2. It would be really stupid on Brock's side to use steroids (which I don't think he does) after what happened with Chael Sonnen!

[Orville9999]

@misterlunatic

he was for his fight with brock. He had to bulk up to 220 while brock had to cut down to 265 from 300. It's ridiculous.

Of course brock is doing steroids. There's no human being at 6'3 who walks around naturally at almost 300 pounds of solid muscle. He just knows how much to take and when to get them out of his system in time for the tests.

[redeyeddawn]

@Orville9999

There are many new studies in biology that are questioning everything we hold true about genetics and the like. I have no problem with accusations of steriods because of physique, but ruling out the possibility that people built like Lesnar, Carwin, or Overeem are natural is not logical.

[Orville9999]

@redeyeddawn I'm not talking about overeem or carwin. I'm talking about brock. Testosterone levels peak in the a mans late teens to early 20's and start going downhill. Yet somehow he's bigger now than he was in college. Do you think he just had a really late puberty?

[redeyeddawn]

@Orville9999

I think Brock has done steriods(maybe in the last 2 years even). It just gets a little tiresome when people state that this and that is impossible. I would assume you meant virtually impossible which isn't such a bad statement. Never mind.



[CavemanJesus4Life]

@Orville9999 type in Brock vs Bastista and you'll see him at 330lbs in OVW(ohio valley wretsling). So yes he did do something when he was in the WWE minor league promotions

[leadiceman22]

super heavy weight clas: marious pujanowki(he can't lose wieght beause hes ars weight 80 pounds) tim silva(300 ound pudding fattie) brock lesnar carwin fedor roy nelson the big koren guy who is 7'1 butter bean some of the asian most sepicifly japnish fighters some european fighters etc..,..

[leadiceman22]

super heavy weight clas:

marious pujanowki(he can't lose wieght beause hes ars weight 80 pounds)

tim silva(300 ound pudding fattie)

brock lesnar

carwin

fedor

roy nelson

the big koren guy who is 7'1

etc..,..

[D21UpstateNY]

yes definitely add super heavyweight! most ufc heavys are around 235 not 265. i say 255 is the heavyweight limit and 256+ is super heavyweight. put brock and shane in the new s.h.w. to start out. add some of the top muay tai, bjj, wrestling, ect shw dominate fighters and itll be a very exciting division.

[18PANA]

NO NEED.THE BROCK AND CAIN FIGHT PROVED THAT THERE IS NO NEED FOR A SUPERHEAVYWEIGHT CLASS

[CrossCounter1]

Thorough discussion.

Will a SHW division hurt the prestige of the HW division? I don't think so. The HW division doesn't hurt the prestige of the LHW division.

I'm all for giving the SUPER big guys their own division. There are a lot of talented tweeners getting overshadowed by sheer body mass. And that ain't cool.

Inter-division fights intrigue me, as top lightweights can indeed handle middling heavyweights.

[ironman145614]

if you think about it that would be a great outlet for really big college football players who dont make it to the nfl

[IrritatedGamer]

Lesnar no longer has to cut weight to make 265 since he started his post-illness diet. He has stated this in interviews.

Also, in his fight with Cain he took a hard shot to the jaw before spinning around... the camera shot during the fight didn't really show the shot he took, but in the replays you see it. He wasn't spinning around because he was gassed...

[ThePianoSkitFiasco]

he's not even cutting that much weight anymore, he was cutting from 285 ish prior to his illness. as far as i am aware he is not walking round at that kind of weight these days due to a necessary altered diet.

also its not harder for bigger guys to drop weight because they are heavier they therefore carry more water weight, it works in percentages. no need for changes at the moment

[Gauntlets]

If anything, MMA should adopt da boxing weight classes. Dat way, it could b like everything over 200 lbs could b a "super heavyweight" an' so fourth. Who cares about da organization, just they should adopt those kinda weight classes, minus the junior an' super weight classes.

[YeahIDidOprah]

Superheavyweight Division?? .... look @butterbean man we dont want that in the UFC

If it where a super hw division guys would feel like they dont have to get in shape and then it would be alot of fatties with no cardio

I mean I just watched to 300+ pounders fighting and it was boring they both got tire within the first couple of minutes and shit was boring

and it's not many guys at super heavyweight and it would be a very one-dementional divistion

[CrossCounter1]

@YeahIDidOprah I'd pay to watch Butterbean. : )

[ARandomCanadian]

Even if they do make a superheavyweight division, it's not gonna stop Shane and Brock from cutting down weight to make it to heavyweight

[MrSalamander7]

Just don't put a weight limit on the HW division. Once you're a heavy weight, you're a heavy weight. 

[ARandomCanadian]

@MrSalamander7 agreed with that

[SpyWhoLovedHimself]

Nooo, HW is the big main division! The HW fighters can be considered the best in MMA but then with super-HW everyone will be looking there lol...

[elliotb92]

i never knew why they HW division had a max weight limit too...

[Arturbartos]

The main issue is why the hell any comision tells anyone: you can/cannot fight this or that one.

Ridiculous! No one force them, it is their will, so that if ther is 100pound who wants to wight 400pounds why any bureaucracy should be involved?

It is not just about fights but about every element of our live, which is controled by government just to make us happy. My point is - lets get rid of this silly athletic comision and most of other similar ones.

[simplyarunner]

Super Heavy weight is so thin. Its already in the Unified Rules, but their is just no one out there with the cardio at 266+. See Bob Sapp, Jan Norte, Tim Syliva, Pudzan, and more, its just not a deep division to run that weight class. Crusierweight is something fans have thought about, but you don't have enough guys to build the division right now.

[jagdjohn96]

Frank Mir is 14-3 in my book. His losses to PdP and Vera were when he was fighting on one leg. The Ian Freeman loss was when he didn't know striking. Then he just got outmuscled by the 2 biggest mofos in the world

[jagdjohn96]

I can't believe ppl consider it "unfair" for the biggest motherfucker in the HW division to have to cut weight. Brock gassed when he tried to take Cain down against the cage. Then Cain tore him a new asshole

[jagdjohn96]

The reason there is no SHW is that no one wants to see 2 fat fucks gassing in a minute and sumo wrestling eachother

[Wangtime1]

just go up to 275 or 280 limit thats all!

[MrNiceHk]

Yes.

[elredskull]

super heavywehight would be nice in Dream but not the UFC no freak show fights in the UFC is a good idea. Lesnar DOES NOT LIKE GETTING HIT PERIOD! he came at 275 ony 10 pounds is a very easy cut for him he just got OUTCLASSED and EXPOSED by a superior fighter in every way. Cain is the best heavyweight now in the world, undefeated and the champ with elite wrestling, great hands and awsome cardio as good as it gets. VIVA CAIN VELAZQUEZ!!

[vespaman101]

i dont think they shuld because they only have 23 or 24 heavyweights. they dont have nearly as many as the other weight classes. and if u made super heavyweight who wuld be able to join. Carwin, Lesnar, Mir....Gonzaga if he didnt get cut. i mean the only guys who wuld be big enough

[wherewhenwhat]

No, they shouldnt becuz, good fights are too few & far between as it is. If anything there should be less seperation. We want some variety we don't want to see the same guy1 v guy2 and guy3 v guy4 over and over. For god sakes UFC, mix it up.

[ThOutRider2]

@wherewhenwhat speak for yourself m8 :)

[macnutz]

I think White's attitude is based on the belief that a super heavy weight division will be a freak show no matter what rules are applied. Some of the Pride freak events were between super heavy weights who can't actually fight. Their size being the only reason they are in the ring. Some of the worst fights you'll ever see.

I don't think there are enough super heavy weights who can fight to make a decent division. Maybe I'm wrong but that is how it looks to me.

[f5superstar]

i agree 100% with him they should eather make a superheavyweight division or fuck it and let them fight on theyr weight, its not fair at all that a 280+ pounder has to drop weight to 265 and still be in thier 100% health its just not possible, i guerentee that if brock was at 285+ the fight would have been harder for cain and possibly brock wouldnt have gassed out as quick

[matrixlone]

i was hoping they would just add 3 more classes so they have a perfect 10 like super lightweight super middleweight and super heavy also wouldnt mind if they had team titles or tournament champions as well or at least winners like tuf

[TopazSkillMauler]

There are currently 19 fighters in the UFC heavyweight division

[wherewhenwhat]

@TopazSkillMauler Sad but true..this leaves for little to no variations. And yet they cut good fighters like Gonzaga, and I bet they even cut Gilbert Yvel if he looses his next bout.

[vespaman101]

@wherewhenwhat he got cut. they culda got rid of him for all i care. but not gonzaga. gilbert looked like he was kinda done tho. 

[wherewhenwhat]

@wherewhenwhat Figures..yah it shows that they dont give a damn about the HW div. They should be focused on hiring new talent not getting rid of mid level talent.

You simply can't have a company full of winners, somebody has to loose in order for someone to win, so why cut mid level talent? its ridiculous. Now w/ Nog, Rothwell, Cro Cop, and Carwin all on the bench...they have no fighters. literally.

[TopazSkillMauler]

@wherewhenwhat yvel hvs already been released. like a week ago

[TopazSkillMauler]

Hell no

[jin37uk]

Thing is, who would we have in the Super Heavyweight divison? Brock, Carwin... Mitrione? The trouble is that this will lead to the UFC signing crap like Bob Sapp just to fill the division. I like the heavyweight division as it is, that way you get exciting matches where you see smaller fighters using skill to beat the far bigger fighters (Cain vs Lesnar.. etc)

[jin37uk]

Why the hell am I getting a L'oreal advert before I watch an MMA video? hahaha

[ZAIUHH1]

Bad idea. The heavyweight division is fine as it is. I dont want a billion fuckin weight classes like boxing.

[jin37uk]

@ZAIUHH1 true

[CavemanJesus4Life]

I would prefer fighters fighting without cutting weight. Now that the WEC is now going to be in UFC Bantanweight 135lbs Featherweight 145lbs Lightweight 155lbs Welterweight 170lbs Middleweight 185lbs Light Heavyweight 205lbs Heavyweight 230lbs Absolute +230lbs or CRUISERWEIGHT.....200lbs LIGHT HEAVYWEIGHT.....220lbs HEAVYWEIGHT.....250lbs ABSOLUTE......+250lbs No weight cutting

[killerpnthehiller]

They should have a super heavyweight division, but they need to change the heavyweight division and bring it down to about 225-230. the super heavyweight should be 230+ with no limit. that should really make it very balanced in my opinion. That will also mean that both the divisions should be reasonably stacked with the likes of Cain and JDS in the heavyweight, and Brock and Shane Carwin in super heavyweight division.

[joeylz96]

@killerpnthehiller Only problem is not too many other contenders in the super heavyweight.

[57worldwide]

@joeylz96 Did you watch the whole video or did you just leave a comment?

[joeylz96]

@57worldwide Yes I watched the whole thing. I know its healthier for them, all im saying is that their wouldn't be enough or a big enough division. But its a good idea. And if the UFC can get a hold of people, than its a great idea.

[57worldwide]

@joeylz96 If you saw some other comments, there are talented fighters that are heavier than 265. They would have to make the new class before people who are over 265 can move to the UFC. I think there is a bias of the UFC (or rather Zuffa) to be restricting the weight class, as WorldTravelerMan has said, a fighter of Hong Man Choi's stature wouldn't be healthy cutting to 265. There are plenty of big guys in other organisations. It wouldn't be hard, Zuffa is being narrow minded.

[SkywarpMach7]

Carwin destroyed him and him turtle up but Carwin gassed out....

[tman229]

People were actually arguing against that Lesnar was clearly gased? I thought it was plainly obvious he was.

[WinkyMaeve]

@tman229 he was not gassed, he is just a joke dude, you can't teach someone pain tolerance and heart, fedor, cain, dos santos, those are real fighters, brock was just a great entertainer who bullied smaller weaker opponents

[SkywarpMach7]

@WinkyMaeve

- He beat a up and down Frank Mir who lost to freakin Wes Sims (IDC if it was a DQ) who shouldn't even be a top 10 guy.

- He beat a 45 yr old Courture (Couture was actually giving him a real fight)

- Beat a Heaht Herring who was on his last legs and had like 40 + fights Fightign Brock (Fedor KO ed the Prime version...)

[WinkyMaeve]

@SkywarpMach7 frank mir was also tko'd by ian freeman a guy with like a 20-40 record who fights for cage rage

[Sythion]

@WinkyMaeve Ian Freeman's record is 19-7-1. You are way off, do some research you dolt.

[tman229]

@WinkyMaeve Man. he gassed and if you couldn't tell then you need better perception. Also you are saying Lesnar has no pain tolerance or heart? Did you forget the fact that he was blasted by Shane Carwin (who was knocking everyone out in the first round) for most of the round and still came back and won? How about giving a more valid reason why Brock is a joke? I think you are just being biased.

[SkywarpMach7]

@tman229

Thos shots were grazing blows......

[redeyeddawn]

I think Bas rutten and a couple others have suggested making the wieght limit for heavyweight around 230. Maybe they should make another wieght class called open/superheavyweight where a fighter can compete at any weight above 230. I think if a huge framed guy can manage to have cardio at 285 or 315 Ibs or whatever I think they should be allowed to fight and or dominate. Some experience fight coaches give the sweet spot to a ripped 240 Ibs, maybe we could find this out with something new.

[CavemanJesus4Life]

@redeyeddawn I like the 230lbs division cause you can have Light Heavyweights fighting there as well cause most 205lbs'ers weigh 230lbs.

Bader, Lil' Nog, Shogun, Forrest, Bonner, Rampage who all weigh 230lbs or more

[Fazotronic]

they should make a 220 or 225 and a 240-300 superheavyweight division

[Feralig]

No need for it, Brock can cut to 265 and so can anyone really. Why watch a bunch of gassed out guys? Not deep enough, no need for it. No.

[bdbfighting]

There would be like 2 people in the SHW div. Brock wouldn't even be in there since hes walking around right at 265 now.

[ike134]

@bdbfighting That's right...isn't it due to his new diet?

[bdbfighting]

@ike134 Yeah i think so. He lost alot of weight when he was sick also.

[ed781]

i diont think there will be enough guys to make a SHW

[SothisAmon]

It would degrade the hw division to make a shw, open weight proves a lot; wand vs hunt that was a close fight and a bad style match up for declining wand, size seems some american obsession; people genuinely believed carwin and lesnar would win based on size forever, Sapp, Kerr all the same, lesnar cant take a punch thats his problem, i cant think of someone who cowers more, nog in his prime likely submit carwin and lesnar, skill + heart beats size all the time and lack of heart everytime

[Fazotronic]

@SothisAmon you completly forget the fact that ther all super green fighters and yet they are in the top 5 hw list. brock has flaws in his game that are unheard of in other division but he still managed to become the world champion. imaging if he had done mma since 10 years. thats how much the weigh matters.

[SothisAmon]

@Fazotronic Carwin just has bad cardio and no one knows what hes like off his back while fresh; but carwin has fought a good list of fighters, brock turtles under ground and pound and standing winces before being hit.

Junior would wreck him; hopefully nelson fights him next, everyone knows what hes going to do now... double leg, prime mirko would leave him blubbering like he did sapp.

Brock had a defeat plan written by carwin although he gassed b4 finishing it

[sebbzterNr1]

i think superheavy weight would be possible, though you would have to change the weightclasses a bit, exampel HW, instead of 205-265 its more like 205-245 and then the super HW is 245/250+

[LIGHTWEIGHTSERGIO]

i agree 100%, maybe a division until 107 kg??? mmm....

[Kagemusha08]

Another problem is that the HW division is talent starved as is. About half the top 10 heavyweights fight outside of the UFC right now and it seems unlikely that they'll be jumping shit anytime soon. If they were to make the Super HW division, say, 235 and up it would effectively cut the current heavyweight division's roster in half. Bottom line, heavyweight too shallow to be split in half. If the UFC wants to make a new division they'll go with Flyweight, which is far more talent-rich than SH.

[CavemanJesus4Life]

@Kagemusha08 Or if UFC was open to Co=promotion they can get the other Heavyweights, its simple but Dana would have to compromise in order to get it done.

Bigfoot, Overeem, Sergei, Barnett, Werdum, Rogers, Johnson would likely help out a over 230/240lbs division, and with Rothwell, Nelson, Tuchsherer, Mir, McCorkle, Schaub, Struve, Carwin, Lesnar, Velasquez, Kongo it can work

[mufc786hm]

Also, Lesnar barely cut any weight to make 265. If he gassed it's because his cardio isn't as good as we all thought it was.

[canno1991]

I don't think there should be a new division, just lose the 265 limit. Not for Brock or Shane who IMO have no prob cutting but for really big guys who want to get into mma(over 300 lbs).

[Kagemusha08]

@canno1991 The problem is that those big guys probably wouldn't be UFC material in the first place. After a certain weight the sacrifices you make in speed and coordination greatly outweigh the gains you make in strength. It's why there have only been a handful of great HWs who cut weight, and most of them (Kerr, Lesnar) were 1 in 10 million physical specimens.

[Ezol1]

@Kagemusha08 Think about all the people who actually is bigger than 265. I can't see why one of the best K1-fighters (Semmy Schilt) who's been fighting Fedor etc in MMA couldn't fight in MMA again and he can't cut down to 265 very easily.

Carwin, Lesnar, HMC, O'neill (who want's to fight HMC btw), Bob Sapp, Tim Syllvia, Schilt and so on are all Super Heavyweights (the two first cuts down to 265 for competition) :)

[mufc786hm]

There's no one that can't cut down to 265 that is better than any fighter in the HW division.

[Kagemusha08]

As for Lesnar, his performance had more to do with his inability to get hit than with his cardio IMO. He looked fine in the Carwin fight after surviving the first round. His problem is that when he gets hit he freaks out. Not does this lead to bad technique (running away, turtling) but it also could have caused an adrenaline dump, which would make him appear gassed. He needs to get used to being hit in the face and learn to stay cool and stick to a gameplan more than he needs better cardio.

[TerryMMA85]

the best solution to this that comes to mind is an open weight class maybe a divison where anyone in the ufc can fight kinda like what they did in pride have a seperate title would be good.

[Kagemusha08]

A Super Heavyweight division is pointless when the heavyweight champ and clean house with the entire division. The whole stupid debate started when guys like Lesnar, Carwin and Duffee were starting to get hyped and people speculated that smaller HWs could no longer compete with these guys who were big and skilled. As we've seen this past year that was a load of shit. No one has ever taken the Super Heavyweight division in boxing seriously for the exact same reasons.

[Suuulan]

Dont know if a 235 division is such a good thing. Its too many divisions considering they have just got the FW and BW-divisions into the circus.

[canno1991]

Good video, but what you said about Brock isn't true. He said several times before this fight that he cut little or no weight, you may have noticed he was considerably leaner. I think he said he walked around at 270, a 5 lb cut is nothing really. But I agree with what you said about getting rid of the 265 limit.