Lame Horse "remove horse shoes" and "Barefoot Trim"

[bulljam1]

if barefoot is the way to go why are you wearing shoes?

[spurrit]

As a farrier, I make a hell of a lot more money off of trimming than I do shoeing. My ideal day would be ten or 15 head to trim, all at one barn. We don't shoe because we just want to. Owners would rather pay less than half as much every time I come out, as well. If I have a horse that will tolerate being barefoot, he stays barefoot. Some simply won't stay sound without shoes when you actually use them outside of a groomed arena.

[slzabinski]

Well them boot them. That simple.  If they are on terrain that they are not accustomed to, simple put boots on them. Shoes destroy a horse feet.

[spurrit]

This horse's problems are caused by neglect. Whether shod or not, he still woulda been in poor shape.

[slzabinski]

@spurrit Where do you get the horse was neglected? Does that horse look neglected? No, looks pretty dern health to me. The horse was navicular not neglected. He had navicular because he was shod. No more shoes, no more navicular. Hmmm.  Can we put 2 and 2 together?

[slzabinski]

There is no point or need to horse shoes. It is an archaic barbaric old school practice that finally today with more modern thought is finally slowly coming to an end. This is one of the beauties of the internet - the barefoot movement has become a raging fire with so much education being put out in the public viewing that more and more horse owners are realizing how detrimental that shoes really are to their horses. A shod how in a painful unnatural hoof. A barefoot hoof is a healthy hoof.

[whispererstable]

@slzabinski Thank you for your comment. I will be posting a video shortly that I've taken of Magic.  It has been one year, and the diagnosed navicular syndrome has been reversed. This horse is sound and the owner is riding her after 5 years of lameness. All of this was accomplished with regular and correct barefoot trimming.

[slzabinski]

@whispererstable Can't wait to see the difference in how Magic is now. I tell people all the time that if they don't put shoes on their horse they will never have to worry about navicular. It is a domestic horse condition. Rarely if ever do wild horse's have a navicular condition.

[thedude2275]

@slzabinski Being shod is not the cause of Navicular. I know hundreds and hundreds of Navicular horses that are suffering due to poor trimming. "Farriers" that take too much heel off, and keep huge amounts of tension in the DDFT, resulting in a ruptured Navicular Bursa.

Improper shoeing is detrimental, but I can turn a lame navicular case sound in ten minutes with the right set of shoes and skills. The American Veterinary Medical Assn. advocates my services, and I am a shoer. Do the research.

[slzabinski]

@thedude2275 Being shod and improper trimming are most certainly the cause of navicular. Navicular is a man-made disease. It only occurs in domestically shod or improperly trimmed horses. It is totally non-existent in wild horses. 

[slzabinski]

@thedude2275 I do plenty of research. Plenty. I wouldn't brag about being advocated by the AVMA, most vets know very little about horses feet. Until recently - just in the last few years since the barefoot movement started, not much info was taught to vets about hoof care. Hoof care was left to a farrier. If you want to read about a vet that does know about horses feet check out Dr. Robert Bowker. He is world renowned for his hoof care knowledge and he will tell you plainly, no shoes. Research.

[slzabinski]

@thedude2275 "As a result of teaching gross anatomy to MSU veterinary students, Bowker became interested in the equine foot, because he knew that the texts commonly used by students and veterinarians were often incorrect on this subject."

[Horsepassion4life]

@slzabinski it has it's use... without them horses hooves wouldn't have time to grow before they got used... horses were having trouble so this is when human start putting horse shoes on their hooves. Some horses need them other don,t depending on the work ;)

[slzabinski]

@Horsepassion4life Not sure what you are trying to say, but horses DO NOT need shoes. Not in any situation or with any horse. As soon as shoes are nailed onto the hoof of a horse you immediately start all kind of different issues within that horse's foot and body.

[Horsepassion4life]

@slzabinski I've seen horses with no shoes that got horrible problems... Some horses hooves tend to use faster then grow. I'm talking here about working horses, saddle horses etc. Where do ya think that invention comes from? It's not a dude that though it would be nice under his horse's hooves XD It's used to keep the feet from being used too much ;)

If the farrier knows what he's doing, the horse shoulnd't have probelem... Sounds to u like all horses that wear shoes are having troubles :p

[slzabinski]

@Horsepassion4life I am fully aware of the history of why shoes were first applied to horses feet. And I am talking about working horses - trail horses, cattle horses, carriage horses, racing horses, jumpers, police horses. Check out the Houston equine patrol. All of the 40 horses, every single one of their horses are barefooted. They all work on pavement every day of their lives - barefooted. All horses that wear shoes have problems. Everyone of them, guarantee you, have problems.

[slzabinski]

@slzabinski Also, it is not just taking the horses shoes off that return them to a healthy foot. It is proper trimming, nutrition, and exercise. The more a horse moves the better and quicker the feet heel. The better the nutrition the better and quicker their feet heel and you most certainly have to have a trimmer that knows what he/she is doing. It is a combination of events that produce beautiful healthy iron free feet.

[Horsepassion4life]

@slzabinski A well the ones I know don't have any prob at all ^^

for my uncle's stallion, having shoes is even better cause he has a problem with his legs.. don't remember what it is exactly, but it cause pain to him, since he's born... so they put special shoes on him ^^

by experience, I now put shoes to every horse cause on the road or in competition were the grass is wet... there are more chance that my horse slide without shoes than with them. In winter it's also better on the ice outside.

[slzabinski]

@Horsepassion4life You really need to do research on shoes. Sorry but you absolutely have no idea of what you are talking about. You are going to tell me that putting metal shoes on a horse is going to give them better traction that a bare hoof that acts like a suction cup when it hits the ground? You are totally completely uniformed. No way in the world that will ever be true. Again, horses do not need shoes for any reason at all. Period.

[Horsepassion4life]

@slzabinski have u done jumping comps with a barefoot horse on a really wet grass without cramps? I've tried... My horse almost broke his leg.. so ya I think that shoes are required in some places. My friend's horse is barefoot, she's doing well like that, but she can't get on the road cause she tend to use the tip of her hooves too much... I see horses shoes with their good n bad side. Nothing is always just black or white. I've been raised with horses, I've seen horses with shoes and without.

[spurrit]

@slzabinski Horses today are not always in a natural environment. In fact, it's a rarity when they are.

[slzabinski]

@spurrit That is not true. When a horse is outside in a field eating grass/hay he is in a natural environment. Don't know where you are, but in my world I see horses in a natural environment every day of my life.

[spurrit]

@slzabinski can he find a mudhole to roll in in every one of them? How many miles does he have to travel to water? Does he have access to more than one type of grass? Natural mineral deposits? Leave the thinking to people that do this for a living.

[slzabinski]

@spurrit My horse has a pond. He has a trough and pond to drink out of. Several types of grass. Given minerals/vitamins. BAREFOOTED and lives naturally and has BEAUTIFUL healthy feet that has never had a shoe nailed on them. I do do it for a living and have for years. Don't assume things that you don't know. Not only do I have my own horse, but I have trained many horses in my lifetime as well. I am in my 50's and have been around/with horses all my life.

[spurrit]

@slzabinski blah, blah......

[slzabinski]

@spurrit That's intelligent spurrit.

[pkman947]

what is the point of a horse shoe?

[FlowingDepths]

@pkman947

I can't be sure, but I think they're supposed to protect the hooves when the horse goes over rough terrain a lot (or if they're on pavement a lot...). Don't quote me, though! I've seen many instances where barefoot horses do just fine.

[Horsepassion4life]

@FlowingDepths you're right. rough terrain is hard on the hooves. The shoes might also be used on horses that have troubles (birth troubles) with their legs.. but they have to be placed by a farrier that knows how to do it... if not, the problem can get even bigger...

[slzabinski]

@Horsepassion4life Horses do not need shoes on rough terrain. If you are using your horse outside his normal terrain that his feet have adjusted to, boot them, not shoe them. Shoes do nothing but damage a horse foot. Period. If your horse is use to a rocky rough terrain their feet will and do adapt just fine. And if a foal has leg issues shoes are the LAST thing you need to put on them.

[Horsepassion4life]

@slzabinski It's not because u don't like horse shoes that it makes it possible for all the horses to be barefoot. SOme horses feet can adjust to it even if u give them 4 years... I've had a mare that had been barefoot since she was born, after 4 years, we decided to put shoes on her cause they weren't hard enough. We would have liked to keep like barefoot, but it wasn't possible. The filly was way better after she had shoes. She had a leg longer than the other... nothing is all dark or white :)

[slzabinski]

@Horsepassion4life For the last time, your horse IS NOT better off with shoes. Educated yourself. Plenty of information out there, you just have to care enough about your horses to do so. Look at the video right here beside this video. New barefoot hoof trimming tools. That is what a healthy hoof looks like. If they don't something is wrong. EVERY horse can have feet like this if their owners would only educate themselves and let the horse have the time it needs to heal its shoe damaged feet.

[Horsepassion4life]

@slzabinski wait a sec, I'm a scientist.. I know how to document my self on subjects and I know to trust what I see and studie. Not because one horse can't wear shoes or it's bad for him that it is 4 every horse... on the same way, not because I wear 9size of shoes that u do... Question, when a horse has hooves with soft horny laminae, what do you do? u let him barefoot, with problems or you put a shell to protect it?

[slzabinski]

@Horsepassion4life Oh! So now you are a scientist?! Really?! Please, get a life and leave me out of it.

[Horsepassion4life]

@slzabinski ya I'm a chemist :p

but u haven't answered my question!

When a horse has hooves with soft horny laminae, what do you do? u let him barefoot, with problems or you put a shell to protect it?

[slzabinski]

@pkman947 There is no point. It is an archaic man made thought. Man THINKS they need shoes. They most certainly do not.

[spurrit]

@slzabinski a horse's needs change when they are out in an artificial environment and asked to do things different than they would normally do. In addition, selective breeding presents a whole new set of challenges. Some breeds, like the thoroughbred, for instance, have particularly thin soles. "Color" bred horses, such as paints, can tend towards softer, or weaker hooves. This is more common in show stock, and not intended to be a broad generalization, as I've used them with no ill effe

[milesmiltis]

i agree with happy hoof....the horse looks over grown by a month at least...the heels have over grown the shoe by a 1/4 inch on both sides...and exactly with happyhoof, if you can easily just cut the clinches off...the shoe has been on way to long OR the foot grew that much in 6 weeks which i doubt from seeing the stress lines in the wall...also from the over growth the horse has low heel long toe...trimming is a great idea however i see that it needs a wide webbed kurkheart set back

[semtech30]

This is a thin walled horse.

He will have support issues from time to time.

There not all made equal.

His lameness may favor joint issues not the hoof itself.

Genetics play a large roll in stamina.

[slzabinski]

@semtech30 All horse, no matter the breed, are born with healthy feet. It is what we humans do to those feet that cause so many unnecessary and cruel problems for the horse. If we would all educated ourselves on the most important part of our horses - their feet - our horses would not have the multitude of hoof problems that domestic horses have. Almost all hoof problems in horses are because of metal shoes being applied to their feet.

[semtech30]

@slzabinski Born healthy yes but as DNA develope's the structures not all are equal.

There is the shallow sole hoof, the upstanding hoof, thin wall or thick. DNA plays the role of construction. Breeders do not consider hoof quality as a desirable trait near as much the size of animal, color, breed and ability based on their disapline. Like Sam Colt made all men equal so did the steel shoe making all horses equal.

I have seen many never shod with disasterous posture and handicaps.

[slzabinski]

@semtech30 Every horse, no matter the breed, is born with healthy feet. Every horse, every breed. It is what we humans do to their feet at a very young age that causes so many problems for the horse.

[Nickelbot1]

What was the result? was the horse any better?

[thehappyhoof]

Why is the hum, hum "owner" letting the horse go so long with shoes on to begin with? No wonder the horse is lame. When it gets to the point to where you can just cut the clinches like that, those shoes have been on for a LONG time. Not all shoeing causes this problem this is also owner ignorance.

[semtech30]

@thehappyhoof I agree with you, All trimmers who can't master the skill of installing shoe's like to use this as an example. Kind of cowardly to choose a Horse shod for 4 months and say see what the shoe's did............No one will admit the Human is in neglect. Everyone has something to sell.

[slzabinski]

@semtech30 - The above horse has been lame with shoes for over 2 years! Not 4 months. And now a year later the condition that it was diagnosed with by the vet - navicular - is gone and the horse is being ridden by its rider. All because the shoes were removed and the hoof trimmed correctly.

[ScopedOUT2]

why do horses need foot car, I mean how about the wild horses, don't they fair well?

[HoofSupport]

@ScopedOUT2 - Desert dwelling horses fair well due to the eviroment they live in. However a horse that does not develop a good foot simply dies. In the domesticated horse we are able to keep those horses alive and sound with shoes. In some studies of wild horses, gross hoof deformities were present in close to 98% of horses documented. Laminitis present in 50-90% of horses in other studies. The horse model in not really a good model to follow for the domesticated horse.

[slzabinski]

@HoofSupport That is absolutely NOT true. I want to see where you evidence is that 98% of the documented wild horses have hoof deformities and that laminitis was present in 5- to 90% of them! I will dern show you evidence where that is absolutely totally false. Laminitis is virtually non-existent in wild horses and almost all wild horses feet are in great healthy shape. I can back up what I say, can you?

[bobadolf100]

@slzabinski I'm curious, how did you get that close to a wild horse to pick up it's foot. I want to see that! Also I would egree that there is very little lameness in wild horses, because like deer, if their lame , their wolf bait.

[slzabinski]

@bobadolf100 - I have never been that close to a wild horse to pick up it's foot. But I have been around horses every day of my life for most of my life. Hundreds of different horses through my lifetime with crappy feet, ok feet and good feet. I also have years of study of the equine foot with one of the country's, if not the world, most renowned equine vets - Dr. Robert Bowker, and he has been close enough to hundreds of cadaver hoofs to see how a wild horse foot looks in the wild.

[semtech30]

@ScopedOUT2 The environment they live in will determine the condition of hooves.

Horses are in all parts of the world with different environments. Semi arid is more ideal that wet coastal environments. The moist climates need more maintenance.

Your feet feel more tender out of the pool than they do out of your shoe's.??

[TheDnomrah]

must be good relief for the horse