I hate how writers sometimes have Batman beat Superman on fights. I mean isn't Batman supposed to be the underdog who we can all relate to. I mean how can you relate to someone who is always prepared, and can beat an alien with god-like powers. Batman used to be so cool, until the writers and fans turned him into "Bat-God".
There is a comic where batman wins on a one on one against superman something gets bats too rage to the point that his blows actually kill the man of steel so i still stick to the cape crusaders side
There is a comic where batman wins on a one on one against superman something gets bats to rage to the point that his blows actually kill the man of steel so i still stick to the cape crusaders said
I like batman as a hero in is own right, but You can be as smart as you want when posed with the over whelming task of fighting superman there's to many options that superman can win with.. and on the fact that batman is smarter then superman yeah bat man is a better strategist but superman also has some technology that would make tony stark jealous. anyways superman would crush batman
We all know superman holds back his true power. If superman really wanted too, he would use his super speed, grab batman and throw him into outer space. Done!!!! But in this pretend world of rainbows and unicorns, that would never happen because DC wouldnt allow such a thing.
superman isnt dumb he beats a guy from the fifth dimension who is a genius all the time. Its dumb as hell that superman looses to batman. he should like the man said freeze him and then throw him into space. writers these days play favorites its dumb
superman and batman are both awesome!its just that we humans can relate more to batman because he's more vulnerable but we still can admire sup's for fighting crime-not because someone from his family got murdered or not because something bad happened in his past,infact he was sent here to dominate but instead he prefers being a selfless hero.batman on the other hand was motivated by his parents' murders and has studied criminals and has more experience.
Say what you want about Batman, but whos franchise is making money. And who cant get a fanboy in the theater. Dont get me wrong, I love the Superman/Batman books. But I'm on Team Batman.
is funny though reading all the sman fans who get real upset over this. It just comic books guys and all ur bickering aint gonna change what the comic makers have done.
The writers have admitted it and WE know it - Superman would rip Batman a new one each and every time they fought, regardless of prep time. That said, the reason Batman wins is very obvious, the writers need a plot device to market the Batman franchise. This plot device usually entails that Superman is holding back, depowered by something, or not thinking rationally. Batman himself admits that Superman could easily kill him if he really wanted to in HUSH.
nah man the reason batman wins all the time is over attitude. S man is just too nice and even in hush batman says hes confident even mind controled sman won't kill him. in dkr sman tries reasoning while bman just starts walloping. sman can't win as long as his character is so nice. its like happy hogan from Ironman.
Actually, the real reason why Superman loses to Batman is because Batman is popular. I love Batman, but I don't like him as much as Superman. Kind of a shame that nobody else agrees... and if it was really as simple as brains vs. brawn, Kal would've lost to Luthor long ago.
Funny thing is, if superman wanted who could kill batman instantly. Yaknow , faster than a speeding bullet, beats the time it takes for the brain to process a thought.
If Brains always wins over Brawn why is Superman still alive when 70 percent of his Rogues gallery is filled with highly intelligent villians who are itching to kill him? Brainiac? Luthor? Prankster? Toyman? Those guys aren't hurting in the brains department yet Superman still defeats them by beating them at there own game. The whole Batman is smarter the Superman is just fanboy bull.
@Fenris30 This is what I said. Superman comes from a race of people that make Einstein look like a neanderthal. But yet, they make Superman dumb. Like Superman forgot he gave Batman the ring for instance. If I was Superman, I would just stand at a safe distance and fry him with my heat vision.
@southboy99 if you were thinking like that batman would know this is the kind of mindset you have and prepare for it --- batman stays ahead of his opponents - think batman never thought about him doing that?? he prob. did but cuz he analysed supes personality among other things he knew that he wouldn't do somthin' like that...so its not as clear cut as you think - villain or friend batman assesses the individual and so knows what to do and what not to do.
@killakaynyne In order for Batman to win the writeres always make him prepared, or make the other characters look dumb. In a real life situation, Batman would have been dead a LONG time ago.
@Fenris30 ok its not just about smarts - its psychology as well for crying out loud -- for instance with superman he's smart as well knows complex formulas and technology but that makes him have knowledge not 'smart' -- those villains you talk about - all of them suffer with their own psychological weaknesses that eventually lead them to either capture or death...think bout it -- there are times when they have heroes captured and cuz of their own personal psyches they lose.
how many times has a villain wanted to kill them in an 'exotic' manner and cuz of that lost...if they thought like batman they would have simply ended it immediately and get the job done --- smart thinking without letting oneself get all personal with it...for instance batman finds a weakness then relentlessly exploits it...he doesn't banter or waste time. that's why he wins. for instance supes incessant use of strength over strategy is in a sense arrogance and many villains exploit this.
cuz of his strength he doesn't need to depend on in depth reasoning or analyses so he doesn't - 9 times outta 10 he'll come in swingin' -- that's his nature and therein lies one of his weaknesses -- lemme put it better if he thought like batman he'd shove his pride and wear a suit that protects him from kryptonite...problem solved but ofcourse good old arrogant pride 'i am superman' prevents this - so he doesn't...but u get my point. Its all in how the character thinks.
@killakaynyne Superman doesn't wear an anti-kryptonite suit because the writers won't let him and because it would get boring if he is completely immune to everything. By the way Batman has never defeated Superman in continuity. And the only reason Batman has come alive in every confrontation they have had is because Superman holds back. Hell when Superman was controlled by poison Ivy's spores Batman himself told several times he wasn't dead already was because Superman was holding back.
@Akkatlah LMAO, I agree with you. If Batman can wear body armor to protect him from bullets. Why can't Superman wear a suit that protects him from Kryptonite radiation. Brains does not beat brawns. Take an pro football team and give them the dubest coach you can find. Then get a middleschool team with John Madden as the coach. The NFL team will steamroll that ass.
@Fenris30 it's a different kind of "Brains". Batman's brain is naturally brilliant, his thoughts come so quickly that he knows your thoughts and actions before you do. The villains you describe (except for Luthor and Brainiac, who are at about Batman's level of intelligence but lack his physical prowess) might not actually be "brainy" in the biological sense, it's just that they have spent their lives educating themselves so that they have more knowledge than the majority of people around them.
@Fenris30 though obviously the real reason why Batman wins over Superman is because of popularity. Most people prefer Batman as a character and most of the fights between him and Superman occurred during Batman stories, of course he's never going to lose a fight that big in his own book.
@Fenris30 I know I'm replying to a 5 month old comment but, they're not exactly genius' when it comes to fighting, usually they have a personally trait that gets in the way of them winning, for example Luthor and his MAHOOSIVE (!) ego
@Fenris30 not really.. batman is just much smarter and more capable than those villains, thats why superman doesn't defeat him.. also, to be fair, i don't think superman ever really wants to seriously hurt batman cause as far as their disagreements go they're still on the same team (basically), so he has to pull his punches while batman doesn't.
@tasteflavored I agree batman is more relatable to a human side and superman is a character that is this unstoppable force witch we wish we could be there both great superheros
@tasteflavored, Brainiac and Luthor are 12th level intellects. =D That's as smart as it gets in the DCU. Batman's IQ is measured in terms of numbers(I believe Batman's IQ is something like 238. That's a genius by human standards, but still not on par with Superman's rouge.)
@Fenris30 well batman is smarter than all of them, 1. brainiac is machine & all machines have faults and we know because we create machines all the time. 2. Lex luther he's smart and clever like batman but he doesn't have a clear mind he's anger and jealousy of superman and that's his weakness that's why we sometimes lose the battle b/c we don't have a clear mind. So Batman knows how to control his emotions and he is always focus. that's why his enemies are insane, they don't think they acts.
@Fenris30 braniniac, luthor, prankster, toyman are all men who think in order to defeat superman they have to use physical might to win against him in the form of machines, gimmicky devices, kidnapping. + prankster and toyman arent even a threat (exploding whoopee cushions.....seriously?) basing your entire arsenal and artillery on "who framed Rodger Rabit" hardly makes you a genius.
@Fenris30 %100 Agreed. The whole batman is smarter than superman thing started wtih JL and JLU. Before that superman was smarter than anyone else. Even Luthor.
He didn't win in Hush at all. Superman was about to crush Batman with a car when Catwoman distracted him with Lois Lane. Plus, the only reason why Batman beat Superman in the Dark Knight Returns is because Green Arrow helped him. Also I never read the New Frontier special, but that page that he showed from it made it look like that Superman was about to break Batman's neck.
Wrong. Batman beat Supes in DKR by using the artificial Kryptonite HE invented. Brains over brawn.
Green Arrow ASKED to play a part and Bruce LET him, but he didn't need him. He'd have launched the K by some other means, probably had already planned to originally.
Being human means there's ALWAYS going to be the possibility of something UNPREDICTABLE happening in life. But Batman is prepared for anything, really? And he memorizes all the files while he's fighting crime AND solving mysteries AND training a sidekick AND sleeping/eating AND being Bruce Wayne AND making more files on new people? Not to mention going to Justice League Meetings half the time, Jesus. That doesnt sound realistic at all.
@TheInmortalRobert LMAO, it's not realistic. This guy runs a multimillon dollar company, but has time to MASTER 100+ fighting styles, investigate crimes, all without having a stroke or heart failure. Sounds very unrealistic to me as well.
guy with no powers beating superman is dumb for beating someone like superman, i grew up reading both comics, big fan of both. This is getting way out of hand. Batman is not the smartest man and brain really doesnt beat browns. Batman is a joke. oh yeah and batman likes boys in tights.
What is a 'fair fight' with Superman? For Batman to be on an even keel with Superman he would have to have the same powers as him. Failing that he uses his greatest weapon against him, and it has yet to fail him.
@InfernalApocalypse: Batman is far better trained than Superman. Bruce Wayne started preparing to become Batman when he was like 8 or 9. Clark Kent just decided to start wearing the blue tights & red cape when he was in his 20's, with absolutely no formal training. That being the case, if Batman has Superman's powers, he beats Superman eventually. Superman with no powers against Batman isn't even fair. 10-second KO for the Dark Knight.
@ara30291 Clark Kent did'nt become Superman until he was 30. When he was 17 he left Smallville and created the Fortress of Solitude. There he studies everything his father place in those crystals for 14 years. Superman is by far smarter than Batman, but they make him look dumb just to give the other Justice League members a purpose.
Finally someone who understands this. I am always arguing with ppl about this and they just dont get it. Lets face it ppl, Batman kicks everyones ass!!!
This is fucken stupid batman is smarter than superman? Where this guy come from,
Superman is way smarter than batman. Superman has super intelligence, in an old comic, he solved equations, and so on. All superman has to do is do heat vision from far away at the kryptonite that batman would have and thats it. Plus Kryptonite is radioactive, so technically batman, and lex luthor should have cancer for messing with the stuff.
@Dudex58 ok superman is smart but not the cunning psycho-analytical smart -- not cuz you understand quantumn physics means you are smart enough to realise that pushing someone's buttons makes them make mistakes...superman has TECHNICAL smarts not in the same way that batman anticipates his opponents and this is cuz he is dependent more on his physical strength than anything else...that is the difference
@killakaynyne ACtually your wrong, Lex Luther is one Earths most Cunning villians, u can compare this to Batman. Superman is actually steps ahead of luthers, and even tells him he knew. For instance Batman discovered supermans identity by snooping and superman just used x ray vision. So superman would already see batman. Second if batman had kryptonite batman use heat vision from long distance.
Hi this about Batman beating Superman is calling us fans stupid
If Superman can be fast as a bullet, see through the walls or make just send Batman to the space with one blow, it's really an absurd
if the most intelligent man in the world or a bruce lee marcial arts fighter fall from a building he probably won't survive and Superman will
In other words, the only way I see Batman winning is if he sleeps with kryptonite in his pants, and I'm not even a superman fan but let's be realistic
@sampasing ok-what i'm trying to say is this-batman observes-if superman just got a whim 1 day and went nuts fine-he flies holds him crushes him-wateva-but most times things dont happen like that there is a build up-which ofcourse while others may not see batman will and so begins the meticulous planning that is batman-for instance superman gives a strange further glance of malice-mentally batman takes note and begins to prep. already thinking somtin' is wrong with superman-prepare for the worst
@sampasing Thats not in Supermans psyche he always holds back when he fights so the difference is that Superman is often too cocky because of his phiysical prowess and will think in terms of Protect people and smash with bare hands. So in return Batman simply exploits his character flaws as he does all of his opponent always preparing for the worst hes a cynic
@Deeman92788 Not wanting to hurt people isn't being cocky.. Stop being such a Batman wanker. He doesn't stand a chance without the writers coming up with some farfetched plot device.
I can't believe I'm dignifying your comment with a response, but... did you even read that book? Batman won the fight, had Superman in his hands, blooded and choking. Bruce FAKED his death using that pill.
He merely wanted to "retire" on a high, a "good death" as he stated earlier in the book.
You have your poit of view , I am entitled to mine. I still insist Superman won that fight, no mater what Batman said, it s his opinion not a fact. Really if Superman had to fight Batman to death the outcome is pretty obvious, Supes would kill Batman, but , they go for his code of moralty, Batman is cooler, bla bla bla. Even if his supposed death was a charade , That Clarck uncovered, Batman planned on loosing the Battle, no winner takes a trip to the Cemetery.
Another problem I have with some of these writers is that they make it seem as though kriptonite is readily accesible, when in fact there is only a smal amoutn of it, that comes from his original planet. Lex lutehr has to search very hard to get his hands on it. But then batman can just make it when ever he wants, yea right.
As I said, it has taken Batman some considerable time to work out how to make the stuff. Luther too has made artificial Kryptonite, perhaps Batman just employs it better. That would be why Superman gave him a sample of it in the first place, because he knew Batman is the master tactician.
Quite the opposite. Poison Ivy didn't help Batman, she's the one who sent Superman after Bats in order to try and kill him. Suffice to say that it only took Batman a minute or two to come up with a plan.. a plan that worked.
@Drwhodunnit1973 His plan was never to beat Superman anyway. He himself admitted that if Superman REALLY wanted to kill him, he would. Easily. But Superman's will held out long enough for Batman to snap Superman out.
As for tactician, If superman ever really saw the kryptonite coming, he doesn't have to be forced into close combat by batman, has far superior abilities to batman. Superman would have to be very stupid to lose to batman. And we all know he isn't. Plus he has a lot more heart than batman.
But he does. In Hush, Superman was chasing Batman down, so Batman went into the sewers. The only way for Supes to battle him was to smash through and follow him in, once there, he was immediately hit by the radiation of the Kryptonite.
@RDpapichulo ok if you really read anything bout superman he is highly confident cuz of his strength-that is a weakness of his (that batman knows)-first thing he thinks off is hey why don't i jus fly in n smash, rather than let me stay some miles off and fry this dude, its jus how he is. Its his own mindset that makes him vulnerable-for instance if he thought like batman you know what he'd do? he'd wait patiently til he knew he had a clear shot and blast him from a distance
@RDpapichulo honestly-you think batman will allow him to see it coming? superman's confidence kills him, lets say he knocks batman through a wall-batman (appears) weakened- does he A-fry him from a distance and be done-or-B-walk up to him to finish him-we both know d answer typical to superman-B. ofcourse batman is playing possum and ready to take out the kryptonite on the floor and thinking ahead what else to use on him. It's more like superman is so strong he almost refuses to take precautions
@killakaynyne come on man, didn't you ever see the superman movie. Superman can turn back time, If he really wanted to he can go back in time and see what batman is up to. Or he can move at the sped of light. The speed of light is faster than what batman can even blink. Batman can't beat god. Superman is at another level. The only reason the comics even let this happen is because it sells cause it's so unbelievable. But batman knows who the real leader is.
And think about it, batman could probably bench press 1000 at most. Superman could bench press an entire building and more. Its just not fair, for superman fans and it gets really annoying.
The truth is, given differing circumstances, either of them could win a fight with each other, but it is far more difficult for Batman. If it helps, in DKR, Batman only won because he invested decades of his life and a huge percentage of his wealth into developing a weapon that could beat Superman.
@Drwhodunnit1973 Lex luther has ivested all his life ansd wealth and is richer and smarter and knows a lot more about kriptonite than batman. He has a whole team of scientist just trying to kill superman, If lex can't doit how the hell is batman able to do it.
Many readers sympathize with batman, because , he is more human, more belivable, they assume that a victory of Batman over Superman is one they can identify, In DKR Batman lost the battle against Superman, true he gave him quite a beating, but ended on the Graeyard. For me that is a Moral victory at most, but analizing what happned Superman won..
Still, all in all, "I want you to remember.. the one man who ever beat you", while holding the dangling, barely conscious Superman by the neck, is evidence enough of Batman's win.
@Drwhodunnit1973 I remebrer Batman said that, but what actually hapened is he lost, he might have thrown a good punches , but ended on the cemetery. Plus, as always when Bats gets this tantrums, Superman restrains himself, do you really think that if Superman fought Batman no holds barred, he wouldn t kill him.? The appeal of the story remains, for me because never those characters had confronted in such a way, both in plot and graphically.
No, Batman very clearly won. The "death" was faked by Batman himself in order for him to avoid having to answer to authorities.
The moment Batman won was when Superman was too weak to fight back.. another punch would simply have been cruel and unnecessary. Bats had made his point and so it was time to bow out.. as planned.
Frank Miller has a point of view also, and as it was his story, one is on far more secure footing subscribing to it.
It is very clearly stated in the book that Batman planned his fake death. He timed it to happen just after defeating Superman. Supes had no strength left for a fight.. Batman had done what he set out to do and so needed to disappear from public view.
If he planned to fake his death as you say, a fact i agree with, Batman still lost the fight. Why you might ask? , because in order to achieve that he took a dive or lost for wo, in any cas he still looses.
Look, I'm all for people drawing their own conclusions when it comes to comics, Scott McCloud contends that ALL readers do this to some extent. In this case, however, when Miller himself attests that Batman won, there really isn't anywhere else to go from there.
@Drwhodunnit1973 i don t know if Miller said that, but in good faith i accept what you say. In any case , my belief is that any forma of art expression is subject to interpretation, even beyond that of the Author, the work stands on it s own to be judjed, and if it is subject to multiple interpretations , such as mine to some extent they are all vlalid. Do you think Frank Miller is the same guy that wrote the Dark Knight back in 1986?
@Drwhodunnit1973 i don t know if Miller said that, but in good faith i accept what you say. In any case , my belief is that any forma of art expression is subject to interpretation, even beyond that of the Author, the work stands on it s own to be judjed, and if it is subject to multiple interpretations , such as mine to some extent they are all vlalid. Do you think Frank Miller is the same guy that wrote the Dark Knight back in 1986?
Take for example the political critiique back on the original Dark Knight, you see a loony Ronald Reagan, going for nuclear war, restricting super-hero activities, (it could be a symbol of individual liberties). That is the real enemy Batman fights on the story, the system, the goverment if you will. In DK2, Batman atacks a Luthor:-Brainiac team, but what is more important , it that is just another superhero story, no refernces to the goverment, Miller changed his views or has. gone soft.
Now here, at least, we CAN both agree. Thanks to reading McCloud's "Understanding Comics", I completely get the whole concept of the subjective nature of comic books.
As I've said, I really have no objection to you taking what you will from DKR, but for me, I'm happy to subscribe to Miller's take. To me, Batman's victory is more vital to the overall story. The need to finish his career with the biggest win possible. Going out with a bang as it were.
@Drwhodunnit1973 I apreciate your comment, but to keep our debate , after the battle with Superman, Batman organizes a squad of his new Bat-men( the guys that paintd theri faces like him) , so he had no intentions of etiring, just keeping a low profile to avoid the U:S. government.
He had planned to retire from public view as Batman, but intended to secretly train a new generation of crime fighters, the former "mutants" etc. who would have otherwise remained loose cannons fighting haphazardly in Batman's name.
Bats decided to don the cape once again only after he came to understand that there was still a larger foe to beat. To be honest though, I hated that sequel as much as the next guy.
As far as the world was concerned, Batman AND Bruce Wayne had died, and that was Batman's original plan.. he simply didn't foresee the day he'd need to take up the mantle of Batman once again.
I actually hated this sequel. To me, DKR was the story of the last days of Batman, and how he intended to pass on his legacy to the younger generation.
@Drwhodunnit1973 As I already said , i hated the sequel too, mayb Miller lost his touch, the atwork seemed a little rashed , specialy on issues 2, and 3, Dark K night Returns , still remains a classic for me, take care an be well.
Rushed and the whole book was unnecessary. Batman's final adventures were covered in DKR, it was stylish and tied everything up. Opening the whole thing back up just stank of the almighty dollar.
Yeah, take care. For what it's worth, I really do respect your views on this.
@Drwhodunnit1973 yup it think that pretty covers the subject. Miller did an excelent job on Year One too, his work on the Super hero gnere since then has decayaed a lot, in my opinion. Well there are other cratoris Alan Moore for one has been more consistent in delivering high quality comics.
It is true, DKR and Year One are the things for which I best regard Miller.
All Star Batman and Robin has some moments, but is only really saved by Jim Lee. Which brings me back to a point I made before, did you notice how Batman didn't give Hal's ring back, he just popped it into his belt. My thought is that he intends to use it if Supes or Wonder Woman stop by.
I've wondered the same. What would be the point of keeping it if Batman has no means of recharging it.
I can only hope that a story emerges that is comparable to the material Miller used to produce back in the day, and not just some charade that has a tenuous at best link to the established DCU.
Yes batman could have a chance against batman if he used kryptonite. But it would still be like Fighting Gozilla with a Uzi-gun.
Superman is far to superior to ever be defeated by batman even with the kryptonite, Now maybe if you had powers then maybe you could do it. I could see darkside defeating superman with the kryptonite, that would be interesting, but superman still has super speed. That's what makes him invisible.
Allso with all the times that batman has used kryptonite on superman dont chu think any sane person would be ready for that shit. I mean batman can't avoid the speed of light, superman would have thorugh that wall before he could even blink. Like I said superman doesn't use his ful strengh on batamn he always controlds himself.
Superman is a smart guy alright, but Batman is the superior tactician. Sure Supes should see the Kryptonite coming, but Batman forces close combat (like in Hush) so Supes has no choice but to get in range of the stuff.
In S/B 23, Superman even felt the effects of the K as he approached Batman, but dismissed it as nothing. Only when it was too late did he realise.
One comic I cannot recommend highly enough is Man of Steel issue 3 which is a retelling of the first encounter between the two characters. This is set in a time before Bats had any Kryptonite, and he STILL finds a way to keep Superman at bay.
They're both great characters though, and compliment one another perfectly.
@Drwhodunnit1973 Well I'm glad we finally agree on just how ridiculous these writers get sometimes on batman vs. superman. Now let me confess, yes in the crazy world of comic books I am aware that batman has small chance against superman.
The most stupid thing I ever saw was when the writers had batman fighting darkside and he kicked him and knocked him down. now we all know that's ridiculous. lol.
I agree there. Batman would have no effect against Darkseid, that was poor writing. I must confess, I miss the days where Batman simply fought crime in the alleyways of Gotham instead of fighting with god like beings.
@Drwhodunnit1973 The way I see it, Superman is superior to darkseid because of his super speed. So I see it as ridiculous for batman to be fighting either, its just something that they have taken too far, after they have seen how well batman fans have reacted to it, because this puts batman at a whole other level that he really shouldn't be at.
The difference is that due to his weakness to Kryptonite, Superman can be brought down considerably in the power stakes. In addition, given how Batman has prepared different strains of Kryptonite, it can have other effects on him too. The one from Tower of Babel can't kill Superman, but is extremely painful.
@Drwhodunnit1973 AND HES ALOT SMARTER THAN PEOPLE GIVE HIM CREDIT TO BE.kIND OF LIKE SPIDERMAN. bUT NOT ONLY IS HE SMART BUT HES FAST AT HIS THINKING, SO i WOULD HAVE TO ASSUME HIS ABILITIES TO THINK ARE FAR FASTER THAN HUMAN IF HE CAN STOP A SPEEDING BULLETS AND ACT IN SUPER SPEED, I MEAN DOH.
For a truly convincing win for Batman, it takes a lot of setting up. He needs to create plenty of his synthetic Kryptonite, he needs to use his power suit, he needs some kind of sonic blaster, he needs to ensure the fight takes place at night.
It takes a lot of setting up, but it is possible for Batman to win, and he has done several times.
Believe me, I been through all these theoretical scenarios with people before, and although you're quite right, Batman can also hurt Superman from a distance using his synthetic Kryptonite. Remote detonation of a K bomb, drop some in Clark's food, even mail it to him.
The stories where Batman has beaten Superman just remind us that Bats isn't helpless against the Man of Steel, that's all. Sure, in real life it wouldn't really be possible, but in real life, Superman is impossible too.
@Drwhodunnit1973 There is not one instance where batman beats superman in DC. Batman isn't even really that smart, just a real jerk. all this suff about thinking ahead is just mumbo jumbo from batman fans.
The truth is that superman holds back his real super powers in order not to hurt the people around him including batman.
@Drwhodunnit1973 You can't see anything, that was probably one of those episodes where superman goes bad, besides that there's no reason for a writer to kill superman, thats just poor writing. WHen batman beats superman it sells, because its not likely. And if it was so easy to beat superman than anyone could beat him. It's just poor writing. Don't let that go to your head, superman is still a god compared to batman.
Well yes, Superman did go bad.. but that's the whole reason he gave that K ring to Batman.
Now think about it logically. Superman gave Batman the K ring in order for Bats to stop him if he ever lost control. If it is impossible for Batman to use it to defeat Supes, why did Supes even give it to Bats in the first place. Superman obviously believes Batman will be able to stop him with it. If he didn't, he'd not have bothered giving it to him.
Did you read "Tower of Babal"? Superman is defeated by the synthetic lump of special red Kryptonite that Batman invented. Stopped in his tracks and left screaming in pain, more pain than regular Kryptonite causes him. Another win in the Batman column.
Superman only has on weakness, and that's kriptonite, without it you cant beat him. No way any normal person is gonna beat someone who can move faster than the speed of light that's just Comic books stuff.
In point of fact, Superman has several weaknesses. Kryptonite is one, he's vulnerable to magic, hypersonics play hell with his head, susceptible to mind control (Hush), de-powers if out of the sunlight for too long, and it's not like he can hold his breath forever, the guy needs oxygen.
@Drwhodunnit1973 OKOK, most of the stuff your mentioning right there are also normal human weakness. And nothing can survive without sunlight I mean nothing. But its not like he has no powers at night, his powers are still the same, cause the sun is always there and will bet there in any part of the universe. He can travel at the speen of light, and time travel. enough said, lol.
@Drwhodunnit1973 OKOK, most of the stuff your mentioning right there are also normal human weakness. And nothing can survive without sunlight I mean nothing. But its not like he has no powers at night, his powers are still the same, cause the sun is always there and will bet there in any part of the universe. He can travel at the speen of light, and time travel. enough said, lol.
I'm aware of that, but I was merely illustrating that he has more than one weakness. When Kryptonite is used to weaken him during the night, it is far more difficult for him to re-energize. My video response above shows this perfectly.
Batman is a sneaky sonofabitch. He'd likely pop a Kryptonite "sugar cube" into Clark's coffee or something then give him a good kicking while he squirms around on the floor. Batman usually finds a way so he gets my vote.
Okay I can except the brains beats brawn concept, but the problem is that Superman's reflexes and speed are far superior to Batman's. The way I've always seen is that Superman usually loses because he simply doesn't wanna hurt Batman.
Once the Kryptonite is brought into play, Superman's speed is reduced considerably. Add to that the sonic attacks Batman usually employs, and Supes is too discombobulated to use high speeds.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
There you have it... The only reason that batman wins against superman is SOLEY because they want to keep comix interesting....
Everyone knows if you thought about it logically Superman would beat batman every single time... But we want to be entertained not hit with blunt logic...
I personally like blunt logic... Superman would just hit the dude with laser vision and fry his ass....
Batman has beaten Supes in DKR, Hush, World's Finest 302 and 153, New frontier special 1, Red Son, SB 23 32 59, Superman annual 3 from 1991, Tower of Babel and even the SB animated movie adaptation for anyone who cares to count that one.
superman would beat batman its that simple and if you dont know that whats wrong with you batmans smart wtf its freakin superman ofcourse he is gonna win you gotta be stupid
I know it wasn't really a fight but in Superman/Batman Public Enemies, Kingdom Come Superman whooped Batman's ass before he could grab his kryptonite ring and was gonna kill him but Batman was saved by the real Superman who fired a kryptonite bullet from Alfred's shot gun at Kingdom Come Supes who eventually, boom tubed away. just saying.
They were fighting in the batcave and were taken by surprise by a future Superman. Batman was not prepared.
He kept the ring hidden in a safe because he only wears the ring when he goes to Metropolis. So true if Superman were to catch him off gaurd and unprepared he would win. Same would go if Batman caught him unprotected.
This topic in general is so tiresome. The Superman Fanboys rarely can come up with good and intelligent replies and the Batman fanboys are quick to jump down their throats. We all get it! Batman wins, Superman loses and where does that leave us and the characters? They are friends and unless one is brainwashed, they won't fight. They are the "World's Finest" Superhero "TEAM" and not "ENEMIES". Who gives a crap who wins in a fight or not? Although I love Superman more Batman is cool too!
Aww... it's sweet the way you cling to Sacrifice because it's one of the FEW stories where Supes actually beats Batman. It's like a comfort blanket to you, huh.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
I've got Sacrifice, King of the World, Lex Luthor: Man of Steel and Hush. What do you got?? A golden age tale that is out of continuity and DKR that is also out of continuity. lol.. Just during Final Crisis Batman got owned at least by three different versions of Superman. In none of those occasion did he come up with a secret protocol to take Supes down. lol So much for the prep god. lol
I hate how writers sometimes have Batman beat Superman on fights. I mean isn't Batman supposed to be the underdog who we can all relate to. I mean how can you relate to someone who is always prepared, and can beat an alien with god-like powers. Batman used to be so cool, until the writers and fans turned him into "Bat-God".
Na11441 1 month ago
@Na11441 I agree. Coulndt say it better
SonLenin 3 weeks ago
You are SUperNerd!!!!!!!!!!
fitano12345 5 months ago
........
527matt 5 months ago
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TheInmortalRobert 6 months ago 2
I dont agree with his apinion. SUperman defeat Batman any day.. Sorry bats fans but agree or not its TRUEE.. Batman is not on SUpeman level
Alexivar1 6 months ago 3
There is a comic where batman wins on a one on one against superman something gets bats too rage to the point that his blows actually kill the man of steel so i still stick to the cape crusaders side
Freakozoid34quick 6 months ago
There is a comic where batman wins on a one on one against superman something gets bats to rage to the point that his blows actually kill the man of steel so i still stick to the cape crusaders said
Freakozoid34quick 6 months ago
The answer in this video is simple. Batman does NOT always beat superman.
In Hush, if Lois hadn't been dropped off a building and snapped Superman out of it, Batman would've been a smear on the sidewalk.
MrImastinker 6 months ago
I like batman as a hero in is own right, but You can be as smart as you want when posed with the over whelming task of fighting superman there's to many options that superman can win with.. and on the fact that batman is smarter then superman yeah bat man is a better strategist but superman also has some technology that would make tony stark jealous. anyways superman would crush batman
Cresomtheory 6 months ago
We all know superman holds back his true power. If superman really wanted too, he would use his super speed, grab batman and throw him into outer space. Done!!!! But in this pretend world of rainbows and unicorns, that would never happen because DC wouldnt allow such a thing.
ricksageek 6 months ago
@ricksageek
"I'm Batman, and I can breath in space!"
CreepingTerror 6 months ago
superman isnt dumb he beats a guy from the fifth dimension who is a genius all the time. Its dumb as hell that superman looses to batman. he should like the man said freeze him and then throw him into space. writers these days play favorites its dumb
michaelmyftr 7 months ago
wtf is wrong with ppl!
superman and batman are both awesome!its just that we humans can relate more to batman because he's more vulnerable but we still can admire sup's for fighting crime-not because someone from his family got murdered or not because something bad happened in his past,infact he was sent here to dominate but instead he prefers being a selfless hero.batman on the other hand was motivated by his parents' murders and has studied criminals and has more experience.
BOTH R AWESOME!
anirudhkrishnamani 7 months ago
can u do one about spiderman vs batman
bigmacchasi 9 months ago
Say what you want about Batman, but whos franchise is making money. And who cant get a fanboy in the theater. Dont get me wrong, I love the Superman/Batman books. But I'm on Team Batman.
SidTucker 9 months ago
is funny though reading all the sman fans who get real upset over this. It just comic books guys and all ur bickering aint gonna change what the comic makers have done.
HereCuzlmBoard 9 months ago
The writers have admitted it and WE know it - Superman would rip Batman a new one each and every time they fought, regardless of prep time. That said, the reason Batman wins is very obvious, the writers need a plot device to market the Batman franchise. This plot device usually entails that Superman is holding back, depowered by something, or not thinking rationally. Batman himself admits that Superman could easily kill him if he really wanted to in HUSH.
JJ2006Ice 9 months ago
@JJ2006Ice
nah man the reason batman wins all the time is over attitude. S man is just too nice and even in hush batman says hes confident even mind controled sman won't kill him. in dkr sman tries reasoning while bman just starts walloping. sman can't win as long as his character is so nice. its like happy hogan from Ironman.
HereCuzlmBoard 9 months ago
Actually, the real reason why Superman loses to Batman is because Batman is popular. I love Batman, but I don't like him as much as Superman. Kind of a shame that nobody else agrees... and if it was really as simple as brains vs. brawn, Kal would've lost to Luthor long ago.
KojiTsunami 10 months ago
@KojiTsunami But Batman outsmarted Luthor as well on Kingdom Come for example
Deeman92788 6 months ago
@Deeman92788 Because Batman is the hero an Luthor the villain.. The hero always wins.
Akkatlah 5 months ago
actually superman is as smart as batman but batman is always prepared and superman doesnt wanna hurt batman
kyuubinaruto1025 10 months ago
@kyuubinaruto1025
Have you listen to the video? the writers want batman to win but rationally superman wins.
Dramactica 10 months ago
Boooooring!
Ensho73 11 months ago
Funny thing is, if superman wanted who could kill batman instantly. Yaknow , faster than a speeding bullet, beats the time it takes for the brain to process a thought.
jpedro54 1 year ago
If Brains always wins over Brawn why is Superman still alive when 70 percent of his Rogues gallery is filled with highly intelligent villians who are itching to kill him? Brainiac? Luthor? Prankster? Toyman? Those guys aren't hurting in the brains department yet Superman still defeats them by beating them at there own game. The whole Batman is smarter the Superman is just fanboy bull.
Fenris30 1 year ago 14
@Fenris30 This is what I said. Superman comes from a race of people that make Einstein look like a neanderthal. But yet, they make Superman dumb. Like Superman forgot he gave Batman the ring for instance. If I was Superman, I would just stand at a safe distance and fry him with my heat vision.
southboy99 1 year ago
@southboy99 if you were thinking like that batman would know this is the kind of mindset you have and prepare for it --- batman stays ahead of his opponents - think batman never thought about him doing that?? he prob. did but cuz he analysed supes personality among other things he knew that he wouldn't do somthin' like that...so its not as clear cut as you think - villain or friend batman assesses the individual and so knows what to do and what not to do.
killakaynyne 1 year ago
@killakaynyne In order for Batman to win the writeres always make him prepared, or make the other characters look dumb. In a real life situation, Batman would have been dead a LONG time ago.
southboy99 1 year ago
@southboy99 Exactly.. Other characters are down graded so the bat-god can perform at their level.
Akkatlah 1 year ago
@southboy99 Exactly.. Other characters are down graded so the bat-god can perform at their level.
Akkatlah 1 year ago
@Fenris30 ok its not just about smarts - its psychology as well for crying out loud -- for instance with superman he's smart as well knows complex formulas and technology but that makes him have knowledge not 'smart' -- those villains you talk about - all of them suffer with their own psychological weaknesses that eventually lead them to either capture or death...think bout it -- there are times when they have heroes captured and cuz of their own personal psyches they lose.
killakaynyne 1 year ago
how many times has a villain wanted to kill them in an 'exotic' manner and cuz of that lost...if they thought like batman they would have simply ended it immediately and get the job done --- smart thinking without letting oneself get all personal with it...for instance batman finds a weakness then relentlessly exploits it...he doesn't banter or waste time. that's why he wins. for instance supes incessant use of strength over strategy is in a sense arrogance and many villains exploit this.
killakaynyne 1 year ago
@killakaynyne you know nothing about Superman. You're just a Batman fanboy.
Akkatlah 1 year ago
cuz of his strength he doesn't need to depend on in depth reasoning or analyses so he doesn't - 9 times outta 10 he'll come in swingin' -- that's his nature and therein lies one of his weaknesses -- lemme put it better if he thought like batman he'd shove his pride and wear a suit that protects him from kryptonite...problem solved but ofcourse good old arrogant pride 'i am superman' prevents this - so he doesn't...but u get my point. Its all in how the character thinks.
killakaynyne 1 year ago
@killakaynyne Superman doesn't wear an anti-kryptonite suit because the writers won't let him and because it would get boring if he is completely immune to everything. By the way Batman has never defeated Superman in continuity. And the only reason Batman has come alive in every confrontation they have had is because Superman holds back. Hell when Superman was controlled by poison Ivy's spores Batman himself told several times he wasn't dead already was because Superman was holding back.
Akkatlah 1 year ago
@Akkatlah LMAO, I agree with you. If Batman can wear body armor to protect him from bullets. Why can't Superman wear a suit that protects him from Kryptonite radiation. Brains does not beat brawns. Take an pro football team and give them the dubest coach you can find. Then get a middleschool team with John Madden as the coach. The NFL team will steamroll that ass.
southboy99 1 year ago
@Fenris30 it's a different kind of "Brains". Batman's brain is naturally brilliant, his thoughts come so quickly that he knows your thoughts and actions before you do. The villains you describe (except for Luthor and Brainiac, who are at about Batman's level of intelligence but lack his physical prowess) might not actually be "brainy" in the biological sense, it's just that they have spent their lives educating themselves so that they have more knowledge than the majority of people around them.
JimmyColls 9 months ago
@Fenris30 though obviously the real reason why Batman wins over Superman is because of popularity. Most people prefer Batman as a character and most of the fights between him and Superman occurred during Batman stories, of course he's never going to lose a fight that big in his own book.
JimmyColls 9 months ago
@Fenris30 I know I'm replying to a 5 month old comment but, they're not exactly genius' when it comes to fighting, usually they have a personally trait that gets in the way of them winning, for example Luthor and his MAHOOSIVE (!) ego
fantastibones 8 months ago
@Fenris30 not really.. batman is just much smarter and more capable than those villains, thats why superman doesn't defeat him.. also, to be fair, i don't think superman ever really wants to seriously hurt batman cause as far as their disagreements go they're still on the same team (basically), so he has to pull his punches while batman doesn't.
tasteflavored 8 months ago
@tasteflavored I agree batman is more relatable to a human side and superman is a character that is this unstoppable force witch we wish we could be there both great superheros
Cresomtheory 6 months ago
@tasteflavored, Brainiac and Luthor are 12th level intellects. =D That's as smart as it gets in the DCU. Batman's IQ is measured in terms of numbers(I believe Batman's IQ is something like 238. That's a genius by human standards, but still not on par with Superman's rouge.)
Batman beats Superman through PIS!!!
Chimera1591 6 months ago
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tasteflavored 6 months ago
@Fenris30 It also helps that Superman has omnipotent super powers
nevrest 7 months ago
@Fenris30 well batman is smarter than all of them, 1. brainiac is machine & all machines have faults and we know because we create machines all the time. 2. Lex luther he's smart and clever like batman but he doesn't have a clear mind he's anger and jealousy of superman and that's his weakness that's why we sometimes lose the battle b/c we don't have a clear mind. So Batman knows how to control his emotions and he is always focus. that's why his enemies are insane, they don't think they acts.
perezcoria 6 months ago
@Fenris30 braniniac, luthor, prankster, toyman are all men who think in order to defeat superman they have to use physical might to win against him in the form of machines, gimmicky devices, kidnapping. + prankster and toyman arent even a threat (exploding whoopee cushions.....seriously?) basing your entire arsenal and artillery on "who framed Rodger Rabit" hardly makes you a genius.
stillprettylame 5 months ago
@Fenris30 %100 Agreed. The whole batman is smarter than superman thing started wtih JL and JLU. Before that superman was smarter than anyone else. Even Luthor.
SonLenin 3 weeks ago
@Fenris30 You just spat out your own fanboy bull, hypocrite.
vash87rallyv 2 weeks ago
He didn't win in Hush at all. Superman was about to crush Batman with a car when Catwoman distracted him with Lois Lane. Plus, the only reason why Batman beat Superman in the Dark Knight Returns is because Green Arrow helped him. Also I never read the New Frontier special, but that page that he showed from it made it look like that Superman was about to break Batman's neck.
Na11441 1 year ago
@Na11441
Wrong. Batman beat Supes in DKR by using the artificial Kryptonite HE invented. Brains over brawn.
Green Arrow ASKED to play a part and Bruce LET him, but he didn't need him. He'd have launched the K by some other means, probably had already planned to originally.
MeGrimlockMunchMetal 1 year ago
Being human means there's ALWAYS going to be the possibility of something UNPREDICTABLE happening in life. But Batman is prepared for anything, really? And he memorizes all the files while he's fighting crime AND solving mysteries AND training a sidekick AND sleeping/eating AND being Bruce Wayne AND making more files on new people? Not to mention going to Justice League Meetings half the time, Jesus. That doesnt sound realistic at all.
TheInmortalRobert 1 year ago
@TheInmortalRobert LMAO, it's not realistic. This guy runs a multimillon dollar company, but has time to MASTER 100+ fighting styles, investigate crimes, all without having a stroke or heart failure. Sounds very unrealistic to me as well.
southboy99 1 year ago
Comment removed
TheInmortalRobert 1 year ago
@TheInmortalRobert Well technically hes a super genius smh
Deeman92788 6 months ago
guy with no powers beating superman is dumb for beating someone like superman, i grew up reading both comics, big fan of both. This is getting way out of hand. Batman is not the smartest man and brain really doesnt beat browns. Batman is a joke. oh yeah and batman likes boys in tights.
touisaacmoua 1 year ago
he won in hush? LOL! Fan bas is so gay!
touisaacmoua 1 year ago
What is a 'fair fight' with Superman? For Batman to be on an even keel with Superman he would have to have the same powers as him. Failing that he uses his greatest weapon against him, and it has yet to fail him.
InfernalApocalypse 1 year ago
@InfernalApocalypse: Batman is far better trained than Superman. Bruce Wayne started preparing to become Batman when he was like 8 or 9. Clark Kent just decided to start wearing the blue tights & red cape when he was in his 20's, with absolutely no formal training. That being the case, if Batman has Superman's powers, he beats Superman eventually. Superman with no powers against Batman isn't even fair. 10-second KO for the Dark Knight.
ara30291 1 year ago
@ara30291: When I mentioned his 'greatest weapon' I was talking about his brain.
InfernalApocalypse 1 year ago
@ara30291 Clark Kent did'nt become Superman until he was 30. When he was 17 he left Smallville and created the Fortress of Solitude. There he studies everything his father place in those crystals for 14 years. Superman is by far smarter than Batman, but they make him look dumb just to give the other Justice League members a purpose.
southboy99 1 year ago
WOW I LOVE THAT BATMAN HAS FILES OF EVERYONE TO KNOW HOW TO BET HIM!! I DID KNEW THAT THATS COOL I LOVE BATMAN HE IS THE BEST!!! :D
fozkraw 1 year ago
lol, it's just fan based! nothing else. Batman cannot beat Superman. Don't forget Superman is also smart.
touisaacmoua 1 year ago
Finally someone who understands this. I am always arguing with ppl about this and they just dont get it. Lets face it ppl, Batman kicks everyones ass!!!
bmac78knights 1 year ago
You guys r fuckn gay
calske1 1 year ago
This is fucken stupid batman is smarter than superman? Where this guy come from,
Superman is way smarter than batman. Superman has super intelligence, in an old comic, he solved equations, and so on. All superman has to do is do heat vision from far away at the kryptonite that batman would have and thats it. Plus Kryptonite is radioactive, so technically batman, and lex luthor should have cancer for messing with the stuff.
Dudex58 1 year ago
@Dudex58 ok superman is smart but not the cunning psycho-analytical smart -- not cuz you understand quantumn physics means you are smart enough to realise that pushing someone's buttons makes them make mistakes...superman has TECHNICAL smarts not in the same way that batman anticipates his opponents and this is cuz he is dependent more on his physical strength than anything else...that is the difference
killakaynyne 1 year ago
@killakaynyne ACtually your wrong, Lex Luther is one Earths most Cunning villians, u can compare this to Batman. Superman is actually steps ahead of luthers, and even tells him he knew. For instance Batman discovered supermans identity by snooping and superman just used x ray vision. So superman would already see batman. Second if batman had kryptonite batman use heat vision from long distance.
Dudex58 1 year ago
Hi this about Batman beating Superman is calling us fans stupid
If Superman can be fast as a bullet, see through the walls or make just send Batman to the space with one blow, it's really an absurd
if the most intelligent man in the world or a bruce lee marcial arts fighter fall from a building he probably won't survive and Superman will
In other words, the only way I see Batman winning is if he sleeps with kryptonite in his pants, and I'm not even a superman fan but let's be realistic
sampasing 1 year ago
@sampasing ok-what i'm trying to say is this-batman observes-if superman just got a whim 1 day and went nuts fine-he flies holds him crushes him-wateva-but most times things dont happen like that there is a build up-which ofcourse while others may not see batman will and so begins the meticulous planning that is batman-for instance superman gives a strange further glance of malice-mentally batman takes note and begins to prep. already thinking somtin' is wrong with superman-prepare for the worst
killakaynyne 1 year ago
@sampasing Thats not in Supermans psyche he always holds back when he fights so the difference is that Superman is often too cocky because of his phiysical prowess and will think in terms of Protect people and smash with bare hands. So in return Batman simply exploits his character flaws as he does all of his opponent always preparing for the worst hes a cynic
Deeman92788 6 months ago
@Deeman92788 Not wanting to hurt people isn't being cocky.. Stop being such a Batman wanker. He doesn't stand a chance without the writers coming up with some farfetched plot device.
Akkatlah 5 months ago
new ths from tme m glad he explained it
scoobydoo4093 1 year ago
@TheVetoSkreemer
I can't believe I'm dignifying your comment with a response, but... did you even read that book? Batman won the fight, had Superman in his hands, blooded and choking. Bruce FAKED his death using that pill.
He merely wanted to "retire" on a high, a "good death" as he stated earlier in the book.
Drwhodunnit1973 1 year ago
You have your poit of view , I am entitled to mine. I still insist Superman won that fight, no mater what Batman said, it s his opinion not a fact. Really if Superman had to fight Batman to death the outcome is pretty obvious, Supes would kill Batman, but , they go for his code of moralty, Batman is cooler, bla bla bla. Even if his supposed death was a charade , That Clarck uncovered, Batman planned on loosing the Battle, no winner takes a trip to the Cemetery.
TheVetoSkreeemer 1 year ago
Also, Skreemer, check out my featured video.
Drwhodunnit1973 1 year ago
"1. because it probably wasn't the real superman, and just his evil alter ego, created by a batman villain 2. because it was a batman series"
No, it was the real Superman, and it was in a Superman comic. Superman annual #3 from 1991, to be exact.
Drwhodunnit1973 1 year ago
Point of interest, anyone else notice the way in which Batman didn't actually give GL's ring back to him in All Star Batman and Robin?
He just popped it into his utility belt.
Drwhodunnit1973 1 year ago
Another problem I have with some of these writers is that they make it seem as though kriptonite is readily accesible, when in fact there is only a smal amoutn of it, that comes from his original planet. Lex lutehr has to search very hard to get his hands on it. But then batman can just make it when ever he wants, yea right.
RDpapichulo 1 year ago
@RDpapichulo
As I said, it has taken Batman some considerable time to work out how to make the stuff. Luther too has made artificial Kryptonite, perhaps Batman just employs it better. That would be why Superman gave him a sample of it in the first place, because he knew Batman is the master tactician.
Drwhodunnit1973 1 year ago 2
@Drwhodunnit1973 1. Like i said it was another side of superman not superman himself that's why day did it.
2. You just mentioned poison ivy helped batman, and poison ivy actually has super powers.
3. Comic books are a lot more aloof than a cartoon series and movie series, and its a lot more pressure to sell.
RDpapichulo 1 year ago
@RDpapichulo
Quite the opposite. Poison Ivy didn't help Batman, she's the one who sent Superman after Bats in order to try and kill him. Suffice to say that it only took Batman a minute or two to come up with a plan.. a plan that worked.
Drwhodunnit1973 1 year ago 8
@Drwhodunnit1973 His plan was never to beat Superman anyway. He himself admitted that if Superman REALLY wanted to kill him, he would. Easily. But Superman's will held out long enough for Batman to snap Superman out.
MrImastinker 6 months ago
As for tactician, If superman ever really saw the kryptonite coming, he doesn't have to be forced into close combat by batman, has far superior abilities to batman. Superman would have to be very stupid to lose to batman. And we all know he isn't. Plus he has a lot more heart than batman.
RDpapichulo 1 year ago
@RDpapichulo
But he does. In Hush, Superman was chasing Batman down, so Batman went into the sewers. The only way for Supes to battle him was to smash through and follow him in, once there, he was immediately hit by the radiation of the Kryptonite.
Drwhodunnit1973 1 year ago
@Drwhodunnit1973 you really think that batman would be able to get away from superman in a chase, come on give me a break man, give me a break. LOL.
RDpapichulo 1 year ago
@RDpapichulo
Read the comic. Batman got away while Poison Ivy distracted Supes. It bought Batman enough time to set up his plan.
Drwhodunnit1973 1 year ago 2
@RDpapichulo ok if you really read anything bout superman he is highly confident cuz of his strength-that is a weakness of his (that batman knows)-first thing he thinks off is hey why don't i jus fly in n smash, rather than let me stay some miles off and fry this dude, its jus how he is. Its his own mindset that makes him vulnerable-for instance if he thought like batman you know what he'd do? he'd wait patiently til he knew he had a clear shot and blast him from a distance
killakaynyne 1 year ago
@RDpapichulo honestly-you think batman will allow him to see it coming? superman's confidence kills him, lets say he knocks batman through a wall-batman (appears) weakened- does he A-fry him from a distance and be done-or-B-walk up to him to finish him-we both know d answer typical to superman-B. ofcourse batman is playing possum and ready to take out the kryptonite on the floor and thinking ahead what else to use on him. It's more like superman is so strong he almost refuses to take precautions
killakaynyne 1 year ago
@killakaynyne come on man, didn't you ever see the superman movie. Superman can turn back time, If he really wanted to he can go back in time and see what batman is up to. Or he can move at the sped of light. The speed of light is faster than what batman can even blink. Batman can't beat god. Superman is at another level. The only reason the comics even let this happen is because it sells cause it's so unbelievable. But batman knows who the real leader is.
RDpapichulo 1 year ago
And think about it, batman could probably bench press 1000 at most. Superman could bench press an entire building and more. Its just not fair, for superman fans and it gets really annoying.
RDpapichulo 1 year ago
@RDpapichulo
The truth is, given differing circumstances, either of them could win a fight with each other, but it is far more difficult for Batman. If it helps, in DKR, Batman only won because he invested decades of his life and a huge percentage of his wealth into developing a weapon that could beat Superman.
Drwhodunnit1973 1 year ago
@Drwhodunnit1973 Lex luther has ivested all his life ansd wealth and is richer and smarter and knows a lot more about kriptonite than batman. He has a whole team of scientist just trying to kill superman, If lex can't doit how the hell is batman able to do it.
RDpapichulo 1 year ago
@RDpapichulo
Again, you're talking to the wrong person. DC themselves have made it official canon, you should complain to them.
Drwhodunnit1973 1 year ago
Many readers sympathize with batman, because , he is more human, more belivable, they assume that a victory of Batman over Superman is one they can identify, In DKR Batman lost the battle against Superman, true he gave him quite a beating, but ended on the Graeyard. For me that is a Moral victory at most, but analizing what happned Superman won..
TheVetoSkreeemer 1 year ago
@TheVetoSkreeemer
Still, all in all, "I want you to remember.. the one man who ever beat you", while holding the dangling, barely conscious Superman by the neck, is evidence enough of Batman's win.
Drwhodunnit1973 1 year ago
@Drwhodunnit1973 I remebrer Batman said that, but what actually hapened is he lost, he might have thrown a good punches , but ended on the cemetery. Plus, as always when Bats gets this tantrums, Superman restrains himself, do you really think that if Superman fought Batman no holds barred, he wouldn t kill him.? The appeal of the story remains, for me because never those characters had confronted in such a way, both in plot and graphically.
TheVetoSkreeemer 1 year ago
@TheVetoSkreeemer
No, Batman very clearly won. The "death" was faked by Batman himself in order for him to avoid having to answer to authorities.
The moment Batman won was when Superman was too weak to fight back.. another punch would simply have been cruel and unnecessary. Bats had made his point and so it was time to bow out.. as planned.
Drwhodunnit1973 1 year ago
@TheVetoSkreeemer
I understand it's difficult for you to accept the story.. tell yourself whatever it takes to help you sleep.
Drwhodunnit1973 1 year ago
@TheVetoSkreeemer
Frank Miller has a point of view also, and as it was his story, one is on far more secure footing subscribing to it.
It is very clearly stated in the book that Batman planned his fake death. He timed it to happen just after defeating Superman. Supes had no strength left for a fight.. Batman had done what he set out to do and so needed to disappear from public view.
Drwhodunnit1973 1 year ago
If he planned to fake his death as you say, a fact i agree with, Batman still lost the fight. Why you might ask? , because in order to achieve that he took a dive or lost for wo, in any cas he still looses.
TheVetoSkreeemer 1 year ago
@TheVetoSkreeemer
Took a dive? When? Batman had the beaten Superman by the throat. Following this, his plan kicked in.
Batman actually stopped the beating when Supes had taken enough.
Drwhodunnit1973 1 year ago
@TheVetoSkreeemer
Look, I'm all for people drawing their own conclusions when it comes to comics, Scott McCloud contends that ALL readers do this to some extent. In this case, however, when Miller himself attests that Batman won, there really isn't anywhere else to go from there.
Drwhodunnit1973 1 year ago
@Drwhodunnit1973 i don t know if Miller said that, but in good faith i accept what you say. In any case , my belief is that any forma of art expression is subject to interpretation, even beyond that of the Author, the work stands on it s own to be judjed, and if it is subject to multiple interpretations , such as mine to some extent they are all vlalid. Do you think Frank Miller is the same guy that wrote the Dark Knight back in 1986?
TheVetoSkreeemer 1 year ago
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@Drwhodunnit1973 i don t know if Miller said that, but in good faith i accept what you say. In any case , my belief is that any forma of art expression is subject to interpretation, even beyond that of the Author, the work stands on it s own to be judjed, and if it is subject to multiple interpretations , such as mine to some extent they are all vlalid. Do you think Frank Miller is the same guy that wrote the Dark Knight back in 1986?
TheVetoSkreeemer 1 year ago
Take for example the political critiique back on the original Dark Knight, you see a loony Ronald Reagan, going for nuclear war, restricting super-hero activities, (it could be a symbol of individual liberties). That is the real enemy Batman fights on the story, the system, the goverment if you will. In DK2, Batman atacks a Luthor:-Brainiac team, but what is more important , it that is just another superhero story, no refernces to the goverment, Miller changed his views or has. gone soft.
TheVetoSkreeemer 1 year ago
@TheVetoSkreeemer
Now here, at least, we CAN both agree. Thanks to reading McCloud's "Understanding Comics", I completely get the whole concept of the subjective nature of comic books.
As I've said, I really have no objection to you taking what you will from DKR, but for me, I'm happy to subscribe to Miller's take. To me, Batman's victory is more vital to the overall story. The need to finish his career with the biggest win possible. Going out with a bang as it were.
Drwhodunnit1973 1 year ago
@Drwhodunnit1973 I apreciate your comment, but to keep our debate , after the battle with Superman, Batman organizes a squad of his new Bat-men( the guys that paintd theri faces like him) , so he had no intentions of etiring, just keeping a low profile to avoid the U:S. government.
TheVetoSkreeemer 1 year ago
@TheVetoSkreeemer
He had planned to retire from public view as Batman, but intended to secretly train a new generation of crime fighters, the former "mutants" etc. who would have otherwise remained loose cannons fighting haphazardly in Batman's name.
Bats decided to don the cape once again only after he came to understand that there was still a larger foe to beat. To be honest though, I hated that sequel as much as the next guy.
Drwhodunnit1973 1 year ago
As far as the world was concerned, Batman AND Bruce Wayne had died, and that was Batman's original plan.. he simply didn't foresee the day he'd need to take up the mantle of Batman once again.
I actually hated this sequel. To me, DKR was the story of the last days of Batman, and how he intended to pass on his legacy to the younger generation.
Drwhodunnit1973 1 year ago
@Drwhodunnit1973 As I already said , i hated the sequel too, mayb Miller lost his touch, the atwork seemed a little rashed , specialy on issues 2, and 3, Dark K night Returns , still remains a classic for me, take care an be well.
TheVetoSkreeemer 1 year ago
@TheVetoSkreeemer
Rushed and the whole book was unnecessary. Batman's final adventures were covered in DKR, it was stylish and tied everything up. Opening the whole thing back up just stank of the almighty dollar.
Yeah, take care. For what it's worth, I really do respect your views on this.
Drwhodunnit1973 1 year ago
@Drwhodunnit1973 yup it think that pretty covers the subject. Miller did an excelent job on Year One too, his work on the Super hero gnere since then has decayaed a lot, in my opinion. Well there are other cratoris Alan Moore for one has been more consistent in delivering high quality comics.
TheVetoSkreeemer 1 year ago
@TheVetoSkreeemer
It is true, DKR and Year One are the things for which I best regard Miller.
All Star Batman and Robin has some moments, but is only really saved by Jim Lee. Which brings me back to a point I made before, did you notice how Batman didn't give Hal's ring back, he just popped it into his belt. My thought is that he intends to use it if Supes or Wonder Woman stop by.
Drwhodunnit1973 1 year ago
@Drwhodunnit1973 does he have e battery for the ring?, if not is useles, thanks for the info.
TheVetoSkreeemer 1 year ago
@Drwhodunnit1973 does he have e battery for the ring?, if not is useles, thanks for the info.
TheVetoSkreeemer 1 year ago
@TheVetoSkreeemer
I've wondered the same. What would be the point of keeping it if Batman has no means of recharging it.
I can only hope that a story emerges that is comparable to the material Miller used to produce back in the day, and not just some charade that has a tenuous at best link to the established DCU.
Drwhodunnit1973 1 year ago
@TheVetoSkreeemer
Also, check out my video response for ANOTHER example of Batman beating Supes.
Drwhodunnit1973 1 year ago
Yes batman could have a chance against batman if he used kryptonite. But it would still be like Fighting Gozilla with a Uzi-gun.
Superman is far to superior to ever be defeated by batman even with the kryptonite, Now maybe if you had powers then maybe you could do it. I could see darkside defeating superman with the kryptonite, that would be interesting, but superman still has super speed. That's what makes him invisible.
RDpapichulo 1 year ago
Allso with all the times that batman has used kryptonite on superman dont chu think any sane person would be ready for that shit. I mean batman can't avoid the speed of light, superman would have thorugh that wall before he could even blink. Like I said superman doesn't use his ful strengh on batamn he always controlds himself.
RDpapichulo 1 year ago
@RDpapichulo
No, it was the real Superman. Batman killed him.
In Tower of Babel, Batman didn't want to kill Supes, just stop him in his tracks, which he did.
Drwhodunnit1973 1 year ago
@RDpapichulo
Superman is a smart guy alright, but Batman is the superior tactician. Sure Supes should see the Kryptonite coming, but Batman forces close combat (like in Hush) so Supes has no choice but to get in range of the stuff.
In S/B 23, Superman even felt the effects of the K as he approached Batman, but dismissed it as nothing. Only when it was too late did he realise.
Drwhodunnit1973 1 year ago
@RDpapichulo
One comic I cannot recommend highly enough is Man of Steel issue 3 which is a retelling of the first encounter between the two characters. This is set in a time before Bats had any Kryptonite, and he STILL finds a way to keep Superman at bay.
They're both great characters though, and compliment one another perfectly.
Drwhodunnit1973 1 year ago
@Drwhodunnit1973 Well I'm glad we finally agree on just how ridiculous these writers get sometimes on batman vs. superman. Now let me confess, yes in the crazy world of comic books I am aware that batman has small chance against superman.
RDpapichulo 1 year ago
The most stupid thing I ever saw was when the writers had batman fighting darkside and he kicked him and knocked him down. now we all know that's ridiculous. lol.
RDpapichulo 1 year ago
@RDpapichulo
I agree there. Batman would have no effect against Darkseid, that was poor writing. I must confess, I miss the days where Batman simply fought crime in the alleyways of Gotham instead of fighting with god like beings.
Drwhodunnit1973 1 year ago
@Drwhodunnit1973 The way I see it, Superman is superior to darkseid because of his super speed. So I see it as ridiculous for batman to be fighting either, its just something that they have taken too far, after they have seen how well batman fans have reacted to it, because this puts batman at a whole other level that he really shouldn't be at.
RDpapichulo 1 year ago
@RDpapichulo
The difference is that due to his weakness to Kryptonite, Superman can be brought down considerably in the power stakes. In addition, given how Batman has prepared different strains of Kryptonite, it can have other effects on him too. The one from Tower of Babel can't kill Superman, but is extremely painful.
Drwhodunnit1973 1 year ago
@Drwhodunnit1973 AND HES ALOT SMARTER THAN PEOPLE GIVE HIM CREDIT TO BE.kIND OF LIKE SPIDERMAN. bUT NOT ONLY IS HE SMART BUT HES FAST AT HIS THINKING, SO i WOULD HAVE TO ASSUME HIS ABILITIES TO THINK ARE FAR FASTER THAN HUMAN IF HE CAN STOP A SPEEDING BULLETS AND ACT IN SUPER SPEED, I MEAN DOH.
RDpapichulo 1 year ago
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Drwhodunnit1973 1 year ago
@RDpapichulo
For a truly convincing win for Batman, it takes a lot of setting up. He needs to create plenty of his synthetic Kryptonite, he needs to use his power suit, he needs some kind of sonic blaster, he needs to ensure the fight takes place at night.
It takes a lot of setting up, but it is possible for Batman to win, and he has done several times.
Drwhodunnit1973 1 year ago
@Drwhodunnit1973 Its impossible, only in the comic LOL, its impossible. In a fair fight without any element of surprise.
All superman has to do is stand really far. and freeze him to death, and batman cant hide since superman has xray vision.
And lets not forget superman does have a suit to protect him from kryptonite, and he also has many other super popwers when he uses his krystal.
RDpapichulo 1 year ago
@RDpapichulo
Believe me, I been through all these theoretical scenarios with people before, and although you're quite right, Batman can also hurt Superman from a distance using his synthetic Kryptonite. Remote detonation of a K bomb, drop some in Clark's food, even mail it to him.
Drwhodunnit1973 1 year ago
@RDpapichulo
The stories where Batman has beaten Superman just remind us that Bats isn't helpless against the Man of Steel, that's all. Sure, in real life it wouldn't really be possible, but in real life, Superman is impossible too.
Drwhodunnit1973 1 year ago
@Drwhodunnit1973 NOt in real life but not even in comic books either.
RDpapichulo 1 year ago
@RDpapichulo
Well all I can say to that is DC Comics sees it differently, and there isn't a lot I can do about that.
Drwhodunnit1973 1 year ago
@Drwhodunnit1973 There is not one instance where batman beats superman in DC. Batman isn't even really that smart, just a real jerk. all this suff about thinking ahead is just mumbo jumbo from batman fans.
The truth is that superman holds back his real super powers in order not to hurt the people around him including batman.
heres an episode of what i mean:
/watch?v=uQUZDbNaXKE&feature=related
RDpapichulo 1 year ago
@RDpapichulo
In point of fact, there are MANY instances, one of which is featured in the video response I made above.
Drwhodunnit1973 1 year ago
@Drwhodunnit1973 You can't see anything, that was probably one of those episodes where superman goes bad, besides that there's no reason for a writer to kill superman, thats just poor writing. WHen batman beats superman it sells, because its not likely. And if it was so easy to beat superman than anyone could beat him. It's just poor writing. Don't let that go to your head, superman is still a god compared to batman.
RDpapichulo 1 year ago
@RDpapichulo
Well yes, Superman did go bad.. but that's the whole reason he gave that K ring to Batman.
Now think about it logically. Superman gave Batman the K ring in order for Bats to stop him if he ever lost control. If it is impossible for Batman to use it to defeat Supes, why did Supes even give it to Bats in the first place. Superman obviously believes Batman will be able to stop him with it. If he didn't, he'd not have bothered giving it to him.
Drwhodunnit1973 1 year ago
@RDpapichulo
Did you read "Tower of Babal"? Superman is defeated by the synthetic lump of special red Kryptonite that Batman invented. Stopped in his tracks and left screaming in pain, more pain than regular Kryptonite causes him. Another win in the Batman column.
Drwhodunnit1973 1 year ago
Ok No Ididn't, lol. but if true, why would a writer have batman kill off superman if he's the good guy, its cause he didnt.
1. because it probably wasn't the real superman, and just his evil alter ego, created by a batman villain 2. because it was a batman series.
Ofcourse the good guy always wins, and nothing excites batman fans more than batamn saving superman which is stupid.
RDpapichulo 1 year ago
Superman only has on weakness, and that's kriptonite, without it you cant beat him. No way any normal person is gonna beat someone who can move faster than the speed of light that's just Comic books stuff.
RDpapichulo 1 year ago
@RDpapichulo
In point of fact, Superman has several weaknesses. Kryptonite is one, he's vulnerable to magic, hypersonics play hell with his head, susceptible to mind control (Hush), de-powers if out of the sunlight for too long, and it's not like he can hold his breath forever, the guy needs oxygen.
Drwhodunnit1973 1 year ago
@Drwhodunnit1973 OKOK, most of the stuff your mentioning right there are also normal human weakness. And nothing can survive without sunlight I mean nothing. But its not like he has no powers at night, his powers are still the same, cause the sun is always there and will bet there in any part of the universe. He can travel at the speen of light, and time travel. enough said, lol.
RDpapichulo 1 year ago
@Drwhodunnit1973 AND HES ALOT SMARTER THAN PEOPLE GIVE HIM CREDIT TO BE.
RDpapichulo 1 year ago
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@Drwhodunnit1973 OKOK, most of the stuff your mentioning right there are also normal human weakness. And nothing can survive without sunlight I mean nothing. But its not like he has no powers at night, his powers are still the same, cause the sun is always there and will bet there in any part of the universe. He can travel at the speen of light, and time travel. enough said, lol.
RDpapichulo 1 year ago
@RDpapichulo
I'm aware of that, but I was merely illustrating that he has more than one weakness. When Kryptonite is used to weaken him during the night, it is far more difficult for him to re-energize. My video response above shows this perfectly.
Drwhodunnit1973 1 year ago
Batman is a sneaky sonofabitch. He'd likely pop a Kryptonite "sugar cube" into Clark's coffee or something then give him a good kicking while he squirms around on the floor. Batman usually finds a way so he gets my vote.
AwesomeWelles01 2 years ago
Okay I can except the brains beats brawn concept, but the problem is that Superman's reflexes and speed are far superior to Batman's. The way I've always seen is that Superman usually loses because he simply doesn't wanna hurt Batman.
RWright2006 2 years ago
@RWright2006
Once the Kryptonite is brought into play, Superman's speed is reduced considerably. Add to that the sonic attacks Batman usually employs, and Supes is too discombobulated to use high speeds.
Drwhodunnit1973 2 years ago
@RWright2006 exactly! lol.
RDpapichulo 1 year ago
Personaly, I've always believed if these two went at it, it'd end in both of their deaths.
MadMaxe13 2 years ago
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There you have it... The only reason that batman wins against superman is SOLEY because they want to keep comix interesting....
Everyone knows if you thought about it logically Superman would beat batman every single time... But we want to be entertained not hit with blunt logic...
I personally like blunt logic... Superman would just hit the dude with laser vision and fry his ass....
Loadfaster 2 years ago
Yeah, but if it's logic you're after, Superman crumbles in the face of Kryptonite.
This being the case, when Batman whips up his own brand of the stuff like he did in DKR, it's only logical that he'd beat Superman.
Drwhodunnit1973 2 years ago 3
marvel marvel marvel marvel
TheOSIRIS1000 2 years ago
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Superman has beaten Batman on two occasions that I know.
Weakened by Kryptonite on one occasion and another when he had lost most of his power .
Actually I think Supes leads 4-3 in their overall encounters.
freeone2 2 years ago
I beg to differ.
Batman has beaten Supes in DKR, Hush, World's Finest 302 and 153, New frontier special 1, Red Son, SB 23 32 59, Superman annual 3 from 1991, Tower of Babel and even the SB animated movie adaptation for anyone who cares to count that one.
Drwhodunnit1973 2 years ago 5
I agree batman>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>superman
I say this because he owns him every time they fight and he has a special secret for defeating everyone in the justice league if he had too
MrDorian09 1 year ago
@MrDorian09
Good man.
Drwhodunnit1973 1 year ago
superman would beat batman its that simple and if you dont know that whats wrong with you batmans smart wtf its freakin superman ofcourse he is gonna win you gotta be stupid
10amiano7 2 years ago 5
I know it wasn't really a fight but in Superman/Batman Public Enemies, Kingdom Come Superman whooped Batman's ass before he could grab his kryptonite ring and was gonna kill him but Batman was saved by the real Superman who fired a kryptonite bullet from Alfred's shot gun at Kingdom Come Supes who eventually, boom tubed away. just saying.
johntheroid 2 years ago 5
They were fighting in the batcave and were taken by surprise by a future Superman. Batman was not prepared.
He kept the ring hidden in a safe because he only wears the ring when he goes to Metropolis. So true if Superman were to catch him off gaurd and unprepared he would win. Same would go if Batman caught him unprotected.
suicide1995 2 years ago
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JOHNTHEROID NICE...
Loadfaster 2 years ago
This topic in general is so tiresome. The Superman Fanboys rarely can come up with good and intelligent replies and the Batman fanboys are quick to jump down their throats. We all get it! Batman wins, Superman loses and where does that leave us and the characters? They are friends and unless one is brainwashed, they won't fight. They are the "World's Finest" Superhero "TEAM" and not "ENEMIES". Who gives a crap who wins in a fight or not? Although I love Superman more Batman is cool too!
johntheroid 2 years ago 8
Nice to see that you've now mastered Google and are able to look up these books though, go get 'em, Tiger!
PantwearingD00M 2 years ago 15
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superstarwarsrocks 2 years ago
Aww... it's sweet the way you cling to Sacrifice because it's one of the FEW stories where Supes actually beats Batman. It's like a comfort blanket to you, huh.
PantwearingD00M 2 years ago 6
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I've got Sacrifice, King of the World, Lex Luthor: Man of Steel and Hush. What do you got?? A golden age tale that is out of continuity and DKR that is also out of continuity. lol.. Just during Final Crisis Batman got owned at least by three different versions of Superman. In none of those occasion did he come up with a secret protocol to take Supes down. lol So much for the prep god. lol
Akkatlah 2 years ago