I dont believe in shiva because shiva is a false god that has limited power (according to the myth), and if shiva was so great, where is the "great commision" from shiva?
I act according to my own sense of right/wrong, which it could be argued were influenced by my environment, but I think not. I like to believe that the sense of wrong and right are just, but then again, what is right and what is wrong is merely a matter of perception.
People are emotionally weak to cope with problems in life (poverty, death, etc) so they invent god as an excuse for their crappy life so that at the end they can say that them being good suffering trough all this crap and unfair world will finally be paid off... i've often been in dilemma weather or not should i try to take away those ridiculous beliefs from some of them...
I think the problem is not they believing in them, its others exploiting their belief for their selfish goals (e.g. wars)
If you believe that you should read Genesis the same way you read much of the New Testament, all I can do is throw my hands in the air. I mean even at 5 years old I knew the text was not meant to be read the same. Anyways, thank you for taking the time to reply and God bless (Don't be mad)!
@wge62- After reading your response over again many times I can only conclude that you don't understand any point I was trying to make and reasserts the catch 22 I was talking about. You're upset with Christians for being fundamentalists and translating scripture literally. But the opposite is also true when saying the scripture has differing narratives throughout each book.
@First1it1Giveth differing narratives is another way of saying the book contradicts itself, another reason i wouldn't trust it. how do you know which parts to take literally (love your neighbor as thyself) and which parts to ignore (if you see your neighbor working on the sabbath, he must be put to death)? surely it isn't just 'adhere strongly to the new testament, smile fondly at the old for trying'
@wge621-I'm going to take a swing at this (God help me) to help clarify your misgivings about the Bible. You seem to be implying a catch 22 here. It's as if you said to a scientist, "Well because you didn't use every known use of the scientific method to solve a physics problem you're just picking and choosing what works for you." So, unless I'm interpreting the scripture the way you are (which is apparently an anti-religious worldview) I'm picking and choosing. That's simply a false dichotomy.
@First1it1Giveth ...No, you just created a false analogy. interpreting some pieces of the bible that are clearly written as facts as 'theological poetry' would be like a scientist claiming a law of nature as 'scientific poetry.' any scientist who did that would be laughed out of all credibility. you can use all the literary terms and allusions you want but it won't disguise the fact that modern christians are selective interpreters of the bible.
I've actually met Fr. Barron, you should check out some of his other videos that answer most of the problems you pose in this video. Also, you should look at the work of philosopher William Lane Craig. He argues that objective moral values can only exist if God exists.
@Bmats7 i'll probably have to engrave this on my tombstone but i DON'T CARE about proving or disproving the existence of god. it is impossible. what i do care about is disproving creationism so if your lovely robert barron has a video on that, i might be interested, but mostly he just presents his philosophies and opinions. i'm concerned with facts and evidence thank you very much
@wge621 He's written a lot on creation actually. But Catholics aren't creationists in the sense that we believe the earth was literally made in 7 days etc. We do, however, believe that God created everything... so in that sense we are creationists (but not in the fundamentalist sense). Here you go:
@Bmats7 thanks, that helps me understand your side a little better. but don't you see the fundamental problem with all his reasoning?? the reason barron is able to speak so definitively on these matters is because he reduces the bible to "theological poetry" (his exact terminology). the bible is not poetry. as more and more evidence comes for evolution and against creationism, christians backtrack as fast as possible by saying 'no no no, sure it SAYS the world was created in 7 (contd)
@Bmats7 days but that just means life is beautiful and it's all just a metaphor!" all fr barron can do in light of the abundant evidence for evolution is twist some words to fit the modern christian. sure if you selectively ignore the bible by deeming some of it 'poetry' and other bits 'law', you can use it to support any claim you desire. that's not christianity, that's politics. you realize that in 50 years you're going to say the bible was only against gays because in that time period(contd)
@wge621 The Catholic position of interpreting the bible was never the binary option that you're putting it into. Literal or not literal. Bible comes from the word library. There are a library of books in the bible. Go back all the way to Origen, Augustine, Iranaeus etc. None of them read the whole bible literally. To say that Christians are simply backtracking is just not historical.
@Bmats7 you're probably right because most of the christians i come in contact with have a rather strict interpretation of the bible. Barron's view on christianity is one i can live with because he doesn't really support the god of the bible. he supports a higher power and I have no problem with that but it's not really saying much. what i have a problem with is claiming one piece of the bible to be simply 'poetry' yet usi
@Bmats7 ng another piece to stop the advancement of scientific research or social equality (stem cell research, gay rights, death penalty). that's why i have a problem with christianity. simply believing in something is innocuous, putting it into practice is a different story.
@wge621 "simply believing in something is innocuous, putting it into practice is a different story." I somewhat agree w/ this: “The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and left untried.” G.K. Chesterton.
I'm no scholar, but I know when Fr. Barron was talking about theological poetry he was talking about the art of biblical interpretation. Just like reading Shakespearean plays takes practice and training. When I was in high school contd..
@wge621 and studying Shakespeare I found the plays difficult to understand b/c I lacked the literary training and insight that my teachers had. When we talk about not taking some of the biblical writings literally we are not cherry picking. That's just part of literary criticism and scholarship. Knowing what genre ur reading. When critics take parts of the OT and use it against Christians but ignore the love they neighbor stuff they r cherry picking. Nice video though :)
"occupy others land kill all men of that land, have all the cattles and golds of that land and enslave the wives of the men gotten killed" in Deutronomy
"If u not believe in me and bow before me u will go to hell" in Ten commandments
"If some try to convert u away form christainity, jew and islam then kill them" in Quran, torah, bible
"dont eat the fruit of knowledge of good and bad" in Genesis
@hellobal100 The ten commandments mentions nothing of hell. You are also proving my point. You lack the proper knowledge and training to interpret Biblical scriptures. In Christianity Christ is God fully revealed. So we read the OT in light of him. Not a God of violence, who wants us to kill and enslave ppl. But a God who was a victim of violence, and responded by "Father forgive them for they know not what they do." I can't speak for Jews and Muslims but that's the proper way contd
@TheFutureengineer20 ya rite u want me to interpret bible in a way that favors your Christian ideology and want me to realize this is all good huh????
@hellobal100 What fallacy would that be? What immoral thing have I said? I know my points aren't about science but of literary scholarship and interpretation.
@TheFutureengineer20 the fallacy ur making is, u want me to interpret bible for its good points, where there is no good points i can see, to me its and old version of Harry potter book written 2000 years ago
so u try to create a illusion of there is some thing good in bible for us
@hellobal100 I don't want you to interpret the Bible from its "good" points. If that's a fallacy then u r committing one by just interpreting the Bible through the OT alone and the bad stuff in it. I want you to interpret the Bible through Christ who is God fully revealed. If u think the Bible is no different then Harry Potter then I recommend u listen to ppl like Father Barron, Scott Hahn, and NT Wright. It's nothing like Harry Potter w/ the exception of central messages I guess.
@Bmats7 population growth was imperative. in 100 years you might just ignore the old testament altogether because it's just so damn inconvenient. saying that a god created the universe is not the same as saying you're a creationist, just a theist. from what you just said i assume you believe in evolution and that god created a universe according to evolutionary principles. that's not how the bible works, friend. that's pick-n-choose religion.
@iviewthetube That seems to be the main Christian tactic at the moment. They give as broad a definition of "God" as possible and fit it to the question, "How did this all come about" But the issue is not really whether God exists or not but whether some humans have authority over others to tell them how to live their lives. For example whether the Loch Ness monster exists or not has nil impact until some human says he knows what Nessie wants and insists that we obey him.
@wge621 Yes it does, it was not easy for me at first 23 years of religion on my life, so it takes time and rationality to achive. Also investigation and an open mind is not something you can do overnight all I hope is time changes people and make them see that not because things that you can't explain happen it does not mean that it takes a God that you can't explain did them, it ok to say I don't know it's part of life.
Well I saw a flying pig can you disprove it? no you can't but that does not make it true! that what they don't understand how can something that does not exist we can prove it does not? But logic tells us it cant! I am 100% on your side on this, Right now swden japan and country where the biggest% are atheis or agnostic are the places where there is lest crime and where people live happier amongs them self!
@boricua316 Peace will never be achive trought religion, The only way humans can only reach such a goal, si by not judging others! and be respecful of there choices! do whatever you want! just don't bring pain to other! live happy be free, dont take your goals and take credit of by your hard work saying if it was not for god i would have not done it, you work hard for everything you do! people open your eyes! live your life happy! and free! I wish people would let go of the hate and be happy!
I dont believe in shiva because shiva is a false god that has limited power (according to the myth), and if shiva was so great, where is the "great commision" from shiva?
Archangel866 1 month ago
@Archangel866 hmm, someone missed the point. hopefully you absorb more from other videos than the title.
wge621 1 month ago
I act according to my own sense of right/wrong, which it could be argued were influenced by my environment, but I think not. I like to believe that the sense of wrong and right are just, but then again, what is right and what is wrong is merely a matter of perception.
Sixpackmebrah 1 month ago in playlist Uploaded videos
I find that videos of this subject are very interesting. I thought I'd note a few thoughts of mine just for the hell of it.
1. I believe there is a God, though, I don't conform to any religion. I merely believe that there is something that made all things possible.
2. I was raised catholic, but I always had my doubts. When I was old enough to comprehend such matters, I branched off my parents influential beliefs.
3. I was raised catholic, but my morals aren't that of their's.
Sixpackmebrah 1 month ago in playlist Uploaded videos
People are emotionally weak to cope with problems in life (poverty, death, etc) so they invent god as an excuse for their crappy life so that at the end they can say that them being good suffering trough all this crap and unfair world will finally be paid off... i've often been in dilemma weather or not should i try to take away those ridiculous beliefs from some of them...
I think the problem is not they believing in them, its others exploiting their belief for their selfish goals (e.g. wars)
ForexCookie 2 months ago
@ForexCookie another example enslavement under empire
hellobal100 1 week ago
If you believe that you should read Genesis the same way you read much of the New Testament, all I can do is throw my hands in the air. I mean even at 5 years old I knew the text was not meant to be read the same. Anyways, thank you for taking the time to reply and God bless (Don't be mad)!
First1it1Giveth 2 months ago
@wge62- After reading your response over again many times I can only conclude that you don't understand any point I was trying to make and reasserts the catch 22 I was talking about. You're upset with Christians for being fundamentalists and translating scripture literally. But the opposite is also true when saying the scripture has differing narratives throughout each book.
First1it1Giveth 2 months ago
@First1it1Giveth differing narratives is another way of saying the book contradicts itself, another reason i wouldn't trust it. how do you know which parts to take literally (love your neighbor as thyself) and which parts to ignore (if you see your neighbor working on the sabbath, he must be put to death)? surely it isn't just 'adhere strongly to the new testament, smile fondly at the old for trying'
wge621 2 months ago
@wge621-I'm going to take a swing at this (God help me) to help clarify your misgivings about the Bible. You seem to be implying a catch 22 here. It's as if you said to a scientist, "Well because you didn't use every known use of the scientific method to solve a physics problem you're just picking and choosing what works for you." So, unless I'm interpreting the scripture the way you are (which is apparently an anti-religious worldview) I'm picking and choosing. That's simply a false dichotomy.
First1it1Giveth 2 months ago
@First1it1Giveth ...No, you just created a false analogy. interpreting some pieces of the bible that are clearly written as facts as 'theological poetry' would be like a scientist claiming a law of nature as 'scientific poetry.' any scientist who did that would be laughed out of all credibility. you can use all the literary terms and allusions you want but it won't disguise the fact that modern christians are selective interpreters of the bible.
wge621 2 months ago
Very clearly stated. Thanks.
Sarusource 2 months ago
I've actually met Fr. Barron, you should check out some of his other videos that answer most of the problems you pose in this video. Also, you should look at the work of philosopher William Lane Craig. He argues that objective moral values can only exist if God exists.
Bmats7 2 months ago
@Bmats7 i'll probably have to engrave this on my tombstone but i DON'T CARE about proving or disproving the existence of god. it is impossible. what i do care about is disproving creationism so if your lovely robert barron has a video on that, i might be interested, but mostly he just presents his philosophies and opinions. i'm concerned with facts and evidence thank you very much
wge621 2 months ago in playlist More videos from wge621
@wge621 He's written a lot on creation actually. But Catholics aren't creationists in the sense that we believe the earth was literally made in 7 days etc. We do, however, believe that God created everything... so in that sense we are creationists (but not in the fundamentalist sense). Here you go:
/watch?v=UVsbVAVSssc
Bmats7 2 months ago
@Bmats7 thanks, that helps me understand your side a little better. but don't you see the fundamental problem with all his reasoning?? the reason barron is able to speak so definitively on these matters is because he reduces the bible to "theological poetry" (his exact terminology). the bible is not poetry. as more and more evidence comes for evolution and against creationism, christians backtrack as fast as possible by saying 'no no no, sure it SAYS the world was created in 7 (contd)
wge621 2 months ago
@Bmats7 days but that just means life is beautiful and it's all just a metaphor!" all fr barron can do in light of the abundant evidence for evolution is twist some words to fit the modern christian. sure if you selectively ignore the bible by deeming some of it 'poetry' and other bits 'law', you can use it to support any claim you desire. that's not christianity, that's politics. you realize that in 50 years you're going to say the bible was only against gays because in that time period(contd)
wge621 2 months ago
@wge621 The Catholic position of interpreting the bible was never the binary option that you're putting it into. Literal or not literal. Bible comes from the word library. There are a library of books in the bible. Go back all the way to Origen, Augustine, Iranaeus etc. None of them read the whole bible literally. To say that Christians are simply backtracking is just not historical.
Fr. Barron describes these things in this video:
/watch?v=p8YTre3xqXg
Bmats7 2 months ago
@Bmats7 you're probably right because most of the christians i come in contact with have a rather strict interpretation of the bible. Barron's view on christianity is one i can live with because he doesn't really support the god of the bible. he supports a higher power and I have no problem with that but it's not really saying much. what i have a problem with is claiming one piece of the bible to be simply 'poetry' yet usi
wge621 2 months ago
@Bmats7 ng another piece to stop the advancement of scientific research or social equality (stem cell research, gay rights, death penalty). that's why i have a problem with christianity. simply believing in something is innocuous, putting it into practice is a different story.
wge621 2 months ago
@wge621 "simply believing in something is innocuous, putting it into practice is a different story." I somewhat agree w/ this: “The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and left untried.” G.K. Chesterton.
I'm no scholar, but I know when Fr. Barron was talking about theological poetry he was talking about the art of biblical interpretation. Just like reading Shakespearean plays takes practice and training. When I was in high school contd..
TheFutureengineer20 2 weeks ago
@wge621 and studying Shakespeare I found the plays difficult to understand b/c I lacked the literary training and insight that my teachers had. When we talk about not taking some of the biblical writings literally we are not cherry picking. That's just part of literary criticism and scholarship. Knowing what genre ur reading. When critics take parts of the OT and use it against Christians but ignore the love they neighbor stuff they r cherry picking. Nice video though :)
TheFutureengineer20 2 weeks ago
@TheFutureengineer20 dont mention
"occupy others land kill all men of that land, have all the cattles and golds of that land and enslave the wives of the men gotten killed" in Deutronomy
"If u not believe in me and bow before me u will go to hell" in Ten commandments
"If some try to convert u away form christainity, jew and islam then kill them" in Quran, torah, bible
"dont eat the fruit of knowledge of good and bad" in Genesis
WOW WAT A LOVING GOD !!!!!!!
hellobal100 1 week ago
@hellobal100 The ten commandments mentions nothing of hell. You are also proving my point. You lack the proper knowledge and training to interpret Biblical scriptures. In Christianity Christ is God fully revealed. So we read the OT in light of him. Not a God of violence, who wants us to kill and enslave ppl. But a God who was a victim of violence, and responded by "Father forgive them for they know not what they do." I can't speak for Jews and Muslims but that's the proper way contd
TheFutureengineer20 1 week ago
@TheFutureengineer20 ya rite u want me to interpret bible in a way that favors your Christian ideology and want me to realize this is all good huh????
hellobal100 1 week ago
@hellobal100 I want you to engage the Christians on the points they make. Other wise you are just knocking down straw men and committing a fallacy.
TheFutureengineer20 1 week ago
@TheFutureengineer20 the points christains made are non scientific and immoral. i think ur the one who making a fallacy
hellobal100 1 week ago
@hellobal100 What fallacy would that be? What immoral thing have I said? I know my points aren't about science but of literary scholarship and interpretation.
TheFutureengineer20 1 week ago
@TheFutureengineer20 the fallacy ur making is, u want me to interpret bible for its good points, where there is no good points i can see, to me its and old version of Harry potter book written 2000 years ago
so u try to create a illusion of there is some thing good in bible for us
comments welcome
hellobal100 1 week ago
@hellobal100 I don't want you to interpret the Bible from its "good" points. If that's a fallacy then u r committing one by just interpreting the Bible through the OT alone and the bad stuff in it. I want you to interpret the Bible through Christ who is God fully revealed. If u think the Bible is no different then Harry Potter then I recommend u listen to ppl like Father Barron, Scott Hahn, and NT Wright. It's nothing like Harry Potter w/ the exception of central messages I guess.
TheFutureengineer20 1 week ago
@TheFutureengineer20 yes i agree with the OT argument u made, i love jesus his character his luving nature,
but in reality christains also worshiping the same yahweh god of old testament
actually christains muslims and jews all worshiping same god who is judgemental racist and vindictive
how can i support then ? ya i luv jesus as a part / character of great literature but christainity is way beyond jesus
comments welcome
hellobal100 1 week ago
@TheFutureengineer20 you dont know this christains night mare is logic LOL
hellobal100 1 week ago
@hellobal100 for Christians to interpret the OT.
TheFutureengineer20 1 week ago
@Bmats7 population growth was imperative. in 100 years you might just ignore the old testament altogether because it's just so damn inconvenient. saying that a god created the universe is not the same as saying you're a creationist, just a theist. from what you just said i assume you believe in evolution and that god created a universe according to evolutionary principles. that's not how the bible works, friend. that's pick-n-choose religion.
wge621 2 months ago
I watched that Robert Barron video. He did not seem to be describing he god of the Bible.
iviewthetube 3 months ago
@iviewthetube That seems to be the main Christian tactic at the moment. They give as broad a definition of "God" as possible and fit it to the question, "How did this all come about" But the issue is not really whether God exists or not but whether some humans have authority over others to tell them how to live their lives. For example whether the Loch Ness monster exists or not has nil impact until some human says he knows what Nessie wants and insists that we obey him.
zearro53 2 months ago
@GWARIOR666 seriously, just enjoy life and help others do the same.
wge621 3 months ago
Nice job. Great insight.
iviewthetube 3 months ago
@iviewthetube thank you!
wge621 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@wge621 Yes it does, it was not easy for me at first 23 years of religion on my life, so it takes time and rationality to achive. Also investigation and an open mind is not something you can do overnight all I hope is time changes people and make them see that not because things that you can't explain happen it does not mean that it takes a God that you can't explain did them, it ok to say I don't know it's part of life.
boricua316 3 months ago
Comment removed
boricua316 3 months ago
Sorry for my english lol not my first language lol
boricua316 3 months ago
Well I saw a flying pig can you disprove it? no you can't but that does not make it true! that what they don't understand how can something that does not exist we can prove it does not? But logic tells us it cant! I am 100% on your side on this, Right now swden japan and country where the biggest% are atheis or agnostic are the places where there is lest crime and where people live happier amongs them self!
boricua316 3 months ago
@boricua316 Peace will never be achive trought religion, The only way humans can only reach such a goal, si by not judging others! and be respecful of there choices! do whatever you want! just don't bring pain to other! live happy be free, dont take your goals and take credit of by your hard work saying if it was not for god i would have not done it, you work hard for everything you do! people open your eyes! live your life happy! and free! I wish people would let go of the hate and be happy!
boricua316 3 months ago