This guy is so wrong, who is he to tell you what\how to believe. The book was not meant to b taken literally, but get your mind thinking. Idc what anybody say, they wearnt there to meet jesus in person. No living person was. We believe because of faith. I have to believe that even if this book is 100% wrong, god would be proud that people r thinking about him outside the box. The lord loves us all, no matter what book you read. How god plays a role in our life is personal. But faith is faith.
Humans tend to make models of things we haven't seen to help us understand them. Model of the atom for example. But I can see where making a model of the trinity for understanding would start getting grey especially if people started replacing the wonder of the actually trinity for a model.
Where is scripture does it say that God is expressly male? and in regards to the graven images, what about Genesis where God appears to Abraham in the form of three human strangers?
Speaking of communicating the truth about Who God is, Driscoll is not doing a very effective job of that right now
Even if this book have helped and have a message between the lines, it can still "hurt" us from reading it. With the argument that you should read between the lines, then twilight is an ok story about waiting for the right one, waiting with sex before marrige etc, etc.
The thing I think that Mark wanted to emphasis was that Christians are going nuts about this book. One proof of that is the comments defending it. Why should we tolerate anything false? Why not demand truth in the first place?
Maybe Im wrong... but I think most people would realize God isnt an African American woman in a Shack. Maybe Im wrong... if I am, makes sense why religion is so Powerful and over abused. Im gonna check it out. Im now interested
Oh, yeah... "If you haven't, DON'T"... This is the one time I'm going to say do not listen to Mark. Even if everything he said were correct and the book was heretical, he has also taught that, like in the case of Noah, God loves taking broken and even evil things and working miracles with them so that no one can confuse who was responsible.
Ugh. This is like watching my parents fight. I love Mark and I love the Shack, but there is obviously some serious miscommunication going on here. He is right in that not everything taught in the book is correct and that if the book were literal like the bible is, it would contain heresy. But it's not. The message isn't "who is God?", the message is "What kind of relationship does God want with us?"
The Shack helped me considerably through a very dark time in life. But I am not foolish enough to draw theological truths and base my Christianity on it or another novel of intrigue! SHEESH. I think Driscoll here insults the intelligence of the reader. The Shack isn't meant to be an extra book added to the Bible!
Novels are exempt from theological error. The Shack wasn't meant to be a comprehensive theological statement, it was a "what if" kind of book, exploring concepts outside of the conventional norm of religion. I say if you are going to attack The Shack for having theological error, you may as well attack every other Christian sci-fi or fantasy novel for the same, because I promise you, none of those are real. Come on Mark, pick your battles.
here is the trinity in a nutshell The father is not the son the son or the spirit the son is not the father or the spirit the spirit is not the father or the son except the father is the son and the spirit the son is the father and the spirit the spirit is the son and the father We will NEVER figure this out. This is like a 3D being trying to explain himself to 2D beings. Let's just say, "I don't get it but I trust you Lord"
These videos are aimed at people from the Protestant faiths and churches to wake up and don't leave the Reformed path.
But surely Roman Catholics when listening to this must think WO ! WE ARE TOTALLY WRONG. I mean the Catholic Church is full of images, statues, stains and pope pictures etc.
8rebekka8 Unitarian huh? So when Jesus instructed us to baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, he was just being redundant? Or at his baptism, when He came out of the water, the Father spoke, and the Spirit descended as a dove, that was all... What? Just curious. The Word Trinity is not in the Bible, but the concept is implied.
Yeah, I love Driscoll for the most part, but did he really read this book? If he did, he would understand it was actually about how God comes to us in our suffering. Mack's daughter was murdered in the Shack. So how does God come to us in our deepest point of sorrow? And I just feel like he just is missing the point. No this isn't a trestise on the Trinity. And it has its issues. But even Scripture attributes motherly characteristics to God the Father. Look at the Psalms. Idk...
Four words..."THE BOOK WAS FICTION!!!"..........it CLEARLY states that the book is fiction in the forward and it was located in the FICTION section at Chapters where I purchased it! It's 'the message' behind the story....that is important here! I thoroughly enjoyed the book....a book I would never have read until I explained to a dear friend of mine that I was struggling with my faith after returning from a year in Afghanistan....this book....however you may feel about it...restored my faith!
hmmm if you read the book, Mark Driscoll, you would not simplify the book as you did....nor would you be so sarcastic....are you really that closed minded???/
I recommend for anyone who is thinking about reading this book to not be put off by what Mark says. We are to test everything for ourselves. It is your Christianity you have to live, not Mark's. I personally found this book really encouraging and although i didn't agree with everything that was said i enjoyed it nonetheless. The bible is my primary source of doctrine on the trinity, not The Shack
Not to be mean or start any kind of fight on here, but did he even read the book? I like some of Marks things, but this video has been one of the biggest waste of time. I truly wish I had that 7 minutes and 47 seconds back.
The Shack is ALLEGORY pure and simple and is an incredible novel. Inspiring for those who are not closed minded and try to put God in a box. Beware of the religious spirit! Wikipedia explains allegory perfectly.
This guy clearly doesn't get allegory. In Genesis God 'walked' in the Garden of Eden. Clearly God is spirit so he didn't literary walk in the garden. There are many other similar examples in the Bible. It's allegory, it's myth, it's mystery, it's the Trinity. The Shack is an allegory of the Trinity and attempts to smash our ideas of God and stop pig-headed puritans like this guy trying to put God in a box; a false God who is obsessed with hatred and violence and throwing people in hell.
Ministers like this frustrate me! I have read the book not once but several times just to see if I truly missed something. I think there is better things to do from the pulpit than have needless book reviews, Mark, why don't you spend time preaching salvation instead of presenting us with an Oprah Winfrey book review?
Why feel so threatened by a work of fiction? Why do you also assume adult Christians will embrace a work of fiction as a work of systematic theology? The word "pharisee" came to mind as I saw this pastor struggle with fictional metaphors that pulled him out of his religious comfort zone. The pastor's teaching of trinitarian equality, distinctness, inseparability, unity, deference, etc. are accurate, and they are critical truths, but the Shack does not threaten those truths. It opens dialogue.
I listen to Mark Driscoll a lot and I enjoy his sermons. However, I disagree with the way he worded this. Exodus 20:4 is more so teaching about idols and obviously if you are making "the Shack" as your only source of the teaching of the trinity, then that's not right. The Bible and a well taught Bible teacher is where you should go. I do agree with the part about Modalism. But it really just goes back to saying "The Shack is ONLY a story" and nothing else.
Can't believe how argumentative people are about this book. I read it, and if you get caught up in 'God became a woman' you really have missed the point of the book. Bottom line: God can be who ever you need him to be at anytime. He can love you like a mother, be your brother etc God is neither male nor female, he is spirit. Just read it and see how the trinity functions to meet your needs whatever they are.
@TheJohnniekro I think the same way. People become so limited in their thoughts even they don't want to. If you read the book, then let it change yourself. Of course we all have so many questions, but that's why we are people and not God. He is trully a spirit and not a fe/male body like many of us think. I wrote "He" because I'm just a human being who is limited by language. Love is what He is out there and we should give love too. Is it so hard to understand...
in the story mac gets a letter that says God wants to meet him....ah wait, it's a story! Lord of the Rings won't tell me much about the Trinity either but I'll still read it...as a story
continuation...I think this also goes with books like the Shack and other bible inspired materials. Hope you give it another chance and not judge it directly. Personally it took me by surprise also at first but a lot was revealed as I go through my reading. It is not heretical. It only tried to break traditionalism, racism and being religious. It magnifies God's intent for us to be in a relationship with Him and I think that is the most important thing that we should have personally. God bless!
try to read the book completely and read between the lines. do not interpret it literally. the book is just like Narnia by C.S. Lewis in the case that the message is embedded within the story not the story itself. Also The Shack can never replace the bible, we agree with that but there are a lot of books that are bible inspired just like songs in church. they are not all from Psalms and Songs of Solomon but they still were written to worship God and edify all of us.
I advise strongly against fundamentalism like this. To view God as resembling a man as has come to happen as a result of the fundamentalist mentality with regards to the bible commits the supposed heresy that he talks about. Perhaps if people like Mark did not take everything literally at face value they would be able to read into allegory and find something much more profound than they could have imagined. Jesus instructed every man and woman: omnia probate tenete bonum
@superkillmondo -"prove all things and hold fast to the good". Do not deafen yourself to God speaking and remember that the bible was written by men seeking to understand the divine and the holy and that it is a library of mythology, history, parables, poetry, and allegory. I urge to to consider the graven image of the creation of Adam (the painting). Remember, Nihil sub sole novum.
The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are one because the Son and the Holy Spirit are dependant upon the Father’s leadership, power, and creativity. There is no division among them because they know who the boss is - The Father. The Son is not the Father's replacement as would be with humans that die. Jesus came in the flesh and everything Jesus did was His Father’s plan and Jesus submitted to it. This is why His life was sinless. Jesus always did and always will serve the Father.
so C.S. Lewis fell right off his rocker when he portrayed God as a lion- Aslan? Come on Pastor Mark, i love you, you're my favorite pastor. you're so annointed. but the book was never meant to be a theological exposition. it's a story that should be taken for what its worth and re-interpreted through the lens of Scripture.
@hunterdoesmagic The Chronicles of Narnia are an allegory. While we are not supposed to make images of God, there is an understanding that God is not literally a lion. Also, the Bible makes such comparisons like in Amos 3:8. The Bible never compares God to a woman
Additionally, there is no appropriate reinterpretation of this book through scripture, except that it contradicts the Bible. To say that The Shack does not speak on theology is like saying that the Narnia books are secular fiction.
@QuelDroma366 i appreciate your insight! my point about it not being a "theological exposition" is that, The Shack's not exactly the Mortification of Sin by John Owen. of course it speaks to theology, everything does! but it is a story, take it for what it's worth. i think parts of it can be redeemed DEFINATELY DO NOT AGREE WITH ALL OF IT. however, i believe it should be redeemed rather than rejected. thanks man!
2 Mark - Can you say FICTION? He never wrote it to be anything but FICTION. I saw the lion the Witch and the Wardrobe, but I don't think Jesus is a Lion. You are dangerously leaning toward critical. Did you hate Pilgrim's Progress, too? How judgmental can you get? The author said it's FICTION. It didn't really happen. But anything to make your mega-church popular. Go ahead and make your blind, judgmental observations. Forget about grace.
There is no trinity. Jesus said I and my father are one. There is none beside me. There is one God. Jesus was God robed in flesh. The Spirit is God dwelling inside me with the evidence of speaking in tongues. I pray God reveals the truth to Mark. The trinity is not Biblical.
@8rebekka8 The trinity is three people in one. The Bible shows that Jesus is God in Mathew 1:23. The Bible shows that The Father is God in Luke 23:46. This one is especially interesting because it shows Jesus talking to The Father. Finally, The Bible shows that the Holy Spirit is God in Acts 5:3,4.
There are many more examples of the trinity throughout the Bible. There are also a number of verses that show that they are one, such as the one that you referenced.
The concept of the Holy Spirit being masculine is man concieved for the most part, as the translation of the word 'He' is the same for she, it, that, those, and some other words. Check out Blue Letter Bible, search for John 15:26 and you will see the Greek word translated as 'He' is ekeinos. Then check Mark 16:10, and ekeinos is referring to Mary Magdalene. Therefore, our idea of the Spirit being a He is, at best, opinion of the translators. God is not a man that he would need a gender.
Granted the book is very extreme about its description of the Godhead, however, I think the point was that our presuppositions should be left at the door when even thinking about the true nature of God. Aside from the Father being portrayed as a black woman and the Holy Spirit as an asian woman, the interrelationship between them, IMO describes that of God. All three are connected and when you speak to the Son, you are also speaking to the Father and Spirit etc.
At the very least this book stirred up people to read their Bibles more! And that is the main thing: after reading any literature, reshape your thoughts and feelings by reading the Bible! Jesus is truly there!
WOW if this is how he twists this book i can only imagine how he twists the bibles teachings! The book is NOT about the 'trinity!' it's about finding god in the worse of tragedy's & about the many ?'s that are unanswered that keeps us AWAY from god! YET MACK finds their are a lot of possible answers & just b/c we don't know the right 1 doesn't mean we stray from faith! THEIR WILL ALWAYS BE QUESTIONS. We must believe god has the answers.
My grandma, the wisest person I've known, read the bible entirely 4x: "Their are 2 kinds of people in this world" & she pulled out a piece of paper & placed a few dots "Now tell me what you see?" I said "black dots" "ahh thats where you are wrong my dear the paper indeed has dots but you failed to see all the white, you see unwise people will fail to see the greatness & good in something because they are so focused on the errors but a wise person would see the value" The shack is exactly such
his first point about the idols is bullshit, its an analogy to the trinity. he obviously didn't excel in english- Jesus told parables, so does he think Jesus actually thought we are literal sheep?
I love you brother but in order to critique something you have to actually read it first. Paul Young in this book is not making God a woman or the Holy Spirit an Asian lady. If you read the book, "papa" or God explains to Mack that he is in the form of a woman because of Mack's past. I don't exactly feel that everything in the story is right, but even the author explains how some of the things in the story are actual events and some are made up, he is also not claiming to be right.
the fact that the book is labeled "fiction" is irrelevant. the author could have written a book that did not contradict scripture. i understand that this book is inspirational, but we are not called by God to be inspired. we are called to glorify Him.
It is fiction and should be read as such. IMO the author is not trying to explain the Trinity. 1:09 no this is not the "whole premise of the book". Why did you feel compelled to make this video?
Wait, if God doesn't have a form and image - then why does it matter if we say "him" or "her"? And what a ridiculous thing to care about. God isn't about pronouns. If you spend your time thinking and getting angry about this, you're missing the whole point.
@zhanknight Women caused man to sin so man would still be sinless if it wasn't for women. Lol joking that's a terrible thing to say but i heard someone else quote that and it sounded funny. Shifting blame is bad
The book the Shack was used in my life to bring me BACK to Christ. Had I NOT read The Shack? I may have never opened my heart back to Christ....Mark your missing the point of the book. Jesus leads His true Children back to Him in whatever way HE sees fit... Had I NOT found The Shack...I know I could have just simply fallen deeper into my own sins & may have never repented. I DO see what your saying but God comes to Mack as a women because Mack had too much pain with his earthy Father.
@Chancey9300 beautifully said I feel the same way. many people fail to see the good in something by over analyzing the errors completely missing the point and ignoring all the good. Imagine if we felt this way about each other.
@zerenitythoughts - Thank you. And I agree many people do that yes. I go, further though to say I really don't have to imagine if we felt that way about each other. Because I would say, "we", humans, Christians, just people in general...do over all feel this way about each other. We do over analyze each others errors and completely miss all the good in others. All people I would say, are prone to do that. But, imagine if all people viewed others the way the main characters in The Shack did? :)
"Do not make a engraven image of God. What is an engraven image? Its taking the invisble God and trying to make him visible." As he stands in front of and emblem for the trinity. Perfect.
@hollisterpanda Well you are right, but it is also about the Holy Triviality which does include The Big Shaqtus i.e. a large black woman i.e. God . However, this also includes Shakira of anime fame i.e. The Holy Goat and Rorschach from the Watchmen as Jeebus. The screenplay is being developed by Wilhelm Shakespeare and the B52's are composing the soundtrack which will feature their new single "Agape Shack." The tagline for the film will be "Folks linin' up outside just to get down."
@hollisterpanda - Actually I envisioned the Jeebus character in "The Shack" as 1970's Burt Reynolds. It helped me to get through all that drivel. It is by far the worst book I have ever read including the Bible.
@lukeyeo8 I agree with you. I appreciate Marc in many ways, but in this critique, he very well may be theologically correct in many of his points and maybe it is his job to point them out, but I wished he gave also credit to the good and healing things in this book, one of them being the loving relationship between a man and God.
I dont think people are mainly reading the book to understand trinity, but to crasp on an idea how God would interact lovingly with his created man. I definitely did not read the book to understand complex theological issues,nor did I agree with many of them, but to "hear the voice of a good shepherd". We always read the bible from the perspective of our personal and cultural background, that is why we need each other to complete the interpretation and none of us is correct all the time.
To answer your second question, Scripture says that the Bible is sufficient and accurate. So why look outside the Bible to a book that says MANY things (not just gender issues) that contradict the word of God, when wanting to learn about God?
@ VivLC You said I "have assigned human attributes to God by calling Him Father". I did not assign anything; the Bible did. And since all Scripture is God breathed, the attributes of God described in the Bible are things God has said about Himself.
The problem is not in saying that Christ was in tangible form: "though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men" (Phil 2:6-7). The issue is the Father being made to be a woman. "No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father’s side, he has made him known" (John 1:18). Christ, "is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation" (Col 1:15).
While I agree that the book is just a fictional picture of the Trinity... I have to say that Mark Driscoll has a very valid point. So many people are thinking that this book helps them understand the Trinity when really, it doesn't trult represent the Trinity. So if you can just say it's a good fictional book, well, okay then... but Driscoll is talking about claims that it actually theologically explains the Trinity when it does not.
the book is NOT claiming to be a non-fiction description of God/Holy spirit. Its a fictional book, allowing you to use your imagination and think about God in a slightly different way than how we usually do (which is narrowed and influenced by our culture). I don't find it useful to listen to mark driscoll slagging off other people's non fictional books. Isnt it better to try and undertstand some elements of the trinity rather than avoiding it as being too scared to get it wrong?
@norse82 Are you kidding me??? Whether it's in your mind or on paper, you've already assigned human attributes to God just by calling Him Father and by thinking of God that way. The book is merely trying to get our heads from being wrapped around this idea that because He is the "Father" then He MUST be a man!! but that's what you imagine isn't it???So I guess you have created an idol! He is neither female nor male but both.
Respond to this video...He created us both so he has both attributes but that doesn't limit him to either one. God I would say is far beyond gender........ Is it not possible that God could reveal attributes of himself outside of the Bible? Or is He just "contained" to it??
@7Skilletfan Maybe I don't understand your question. It sounds like you are asking "how does the book contradict scripture?" But the point of this youtube clip is to identify the various ways scripture is contradicted.
@norse82 Yeah that's what I was asking. But what I mean is he is wrong. I've read the book and no where in the book does it say we can understand the Trinity. It even says in the book that we can't understand the Trinity while being in human form.
He is looking way into the book. The book wasn't made to make us understand the Trinity it was made to show us that God isn't up in Heaven happily sending people to hell. And it also shows that He has a sense of humor. It even says in the book that we won't be able to fully understand Him. All it's really pointing out is that God is a loving God that wants to help you through your tough times! He only came in the form of a woman at first because at that time Mack needed a mother figure
Actually when it comes to images, if what he is saying is true, then Michelangelo was a heretic for making the Sistine Chapel. God the father is an old man in their. In addition to that the early church had many icons of the trinity, so unless they were all heretical, his argument does not stand at all, Although I do agree with him about the shack as being a bad and heretical book, just not for his reasons.
I think Driscoll is addressing Christians that are confused and have no foundation in doctrine, but other than that I thought it was a great allegorical book that sneaks the Love that God has for us. That he would give up himself for us.
@ntaylor97 I would agree with you except that the Bible is so often misinterpreted and misused to spread hate. Maybe a fictional book that teaches us to be happy with ouselves just the way we are IS a better thing to read.
@tra1215 I see what your saying. Good point. Idk. I'm just gonna keep praying over every topic we aren't sure about, and hopefully we will turn out in a way to praise the Lord. :)
@ntaylor97 - If you want to learn about Bog, then get down on your knees and start praying for him to appear. You will see nothing. That is all there is to learn.
After you figure that out, then you can begin to actually start "learning" about "real" things like science, history, or philosophy. If you even learn how to yodel or tie fishing flies, then you will become a more productive person. Hope that helped.
the fact that the book is labeled "fiction" is irrelevant. the author could have written a book that did not contradict scripture. i understand that this book is inspirational, but we are not called by God to be inspired. we are called to glorify Him.
This is what happens when you read a book and already have a bias against it. To listen to Driscoll, I have a hard time believing he actually read the same book I did.
Seriously? It's a fictional story that some consider allegorical in nature. Obviously it is much more deep that your creativity is willing to delve. And if I were you, I'd keep away from calling something or someone a heretic - You are not the Holy Spirit, and God forbid you call something heresy that actually is not and then it would be YOU in sin my dear. :(
C'mon, the Shack is just a fiction, it's not primarily a book about the metaphysics of the doctrine of the Trinity, it's a metaphor about how God will push back the confines of our box to reveal His love to us, He will offend the mind to get to the heart. Personally, I love Driscoll, but I think he's misunderstanding the point of the Shack in the first place.' The best part about the book is that it offends the spirit of religion that is so prevalent in so many of our churches today.
I'm not convinced that the Shack constitutes image worship. God the Father represented Himself visibly as the "Angel of the Lord". If not, the cloud/fire that lead the Isrealites is a visible representation, as is the language describing what Moses sees when God covers him with His hand and shows him His 'back'. I think the Shack goes to great lengths to say that "Papa" is merely a representation to communicate something about God.
@CaptMysterio579 The Angel of The Lord is widely accepted as being Jesus Himself, as the Pillar that lead the Israelite's with Moses is a symbol of Jesus Christ being fully God and Fully man. It simply points to Christ :).
Reprint: Goddess worship has happened since Babel. Check it out: the following is a list of mother-child cults, starting at Babel, which pervaded the rest of ancient history.
shame on you mark. you've missed the entire heart of the story. your arguments are without merit and stretched way out there. shame on you mark. i posted your beautiful sermon on repentance on my facebook. i was accused of following a false prophet.
edit my last comment: all he do is flame what goes against what he read in the bible, is what i meant...
further more, he did not talk to god, jesus and the holy spirit.. is everyone believing this just because its in the book? it sounds quite simple to me that macks guardian angels, spirits or anything u want to name took the opportunity that he was fascinated about theology and used it to learn what everyone on earth should know, which is, love, forgive, ask for forgiveness and such.
why does everyone take for granted that he really talked to god and the others? this guy in the book, mack, he knew bible very well and was theologist if im not mistaken.. now, he had quite few lessons to learn throughout that weekend and he did them all beautifuly.. i was so impressed when he forgave the murderer of his daughter.. this shit fake pastor mark doesnt even talk about the true love and beautiness in this book, all he do is flame what he read in that fucking book called "the bible"
I agree that no Christians should build doctrine out of any book but the Bible, although the shack doesn't teach model-ism or graven imagery, if your understanding of the trinity comes from a book outside of scripture then you've got big problems, I found the Shack encouraging with the main emphasis of the book being Gods unfailing love, I don't think the Holy Spirit is an Asian woman nor God a black woman. it is futile trying to picture what God looks like, rather focus on who he says he is....
@JointHeirInChrist Not true. Any idea of God that is not God as revealed in the Bible is IDOLATRY. It's creating your own god that's convenient to you.
@JointHeirInChrist Well, what that means is that even if you were somehow impervious to the false teachings in the book, the book is filled with idolatrous representations of 'god' and is guaranteed to make many (maybe you're fortunate not to be one of them) people believe in a false god that is more convenient to them--idolatry.
@JointHeirInChrist While it's promising that you're not susceptible to the false teachings of the Shack, the fact that you don't seem to find serious issues with it give me cause to worry that you may have weak faith (authentic faith, but very shallow roots, iow). If you didn't choose to believe what's written in the Shack about God, then He may very well be guiding you and keeping you safe--please get deeper into His Word so that you won't mistakenly support such teachings in the future. :)
@dougmoerhoffman Like I said, if anyone gets their understanding of God from somewhere other than the scripture, they have some pretty big problems on their hands. I think you may misunderstand where I'm coming from a bit, I don't think that the book was a heretical attack on the character of God to bring Idolatry to the masses, I think it was an attempt at displaying the love of God and the different ministries of God to us. You're right I do need to get deeper into his word, as we all do :)
@JointHeirInChrist I won't criticize you more because it's outside of the realm of my knowledge--I hope everything you're saying is true; wouldn't want you to stumble. :) I'd just like to give you something to think about.
Truth mixed with error is far dangerous than an obvious lie. How can Satan deceive if everyone always recognizes him for who he is? No, he will dress the lie up in truth, hoping that the less discerning among us will accept the truth and the lie along with it.
@dougmoerhoffman Well said, for instance Mormons, Catholicism, Jehovah's witness etc. These are designs of Satan to contradict the fundamental things of God through subtle lies and the evidence of their destructive power is clearly seen. Thank you for the encouragement to continue discerning the spirit behind things. I encourage you to do the same. God Bless you Doug :)
@JointHeirInChrist You too; I would only edit your response to point out that Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses are fairly obvious heretics, Catholics marginally less so. It's the ones who claim to be evangelical/Protestant and talk about the Trinity, about Jesus, about Grace, about Love, that you have to watch out for. The Emergent Church. The Unitarian/Universalists. The Episcopal church.
Be very careful--not only for yourself, but because you might unknowingly approve of heresy. Keep watch.
what the fuck? the book was about a man finding the grace and beauty in God throughout the most horrible experience anyone could go through. This total fuck-up didnt even give context about the struggle with losing a daughter to a rapist, and God helping Mack get through the struggle... fuck this man
this dude is an idiot i doubt he read the book.. wasn't about the trendy God was portrayed that way because he hated his father. God appears as a man in the last part of the book after Mack's relationship with his Father
This speaker misses the point of why God was portrayed as an african american woman named Papa- I doubt he actually read the book. Probably only got opinions of a few who didn't understand. Reason God is portrayed this way in the book was to do exactly what this speaker is saying is biblical- It is NOT HERESY! Mack, the main character, thought of God the father as a man looking much like Gandolf from Lord of the rings. God appearing as a woman was a way of saying God is neither man nor woman.
Hmm. You know, it's sad that in 2011, the points he makes can bring about an "Eh. Whatever. So what?" response. Guys, this is serious stuff. It's not "no big deal" if we screw up our view on the trinity. It's a big deal.
the trinity isn't suppose to make seance i think it was the conceal of Nicene who made it that way so that god would be one step ahead of everyone it cleaver that they came up with something like that
@annhalaseh continued-if we truly are Christians, the Bible should be what our lives revolve around. What our lives are focused on obeying. Thus, EVERYTHING in our lives should be lined up with the Bible for discernment. yes, I mean everything: the lyrics we listen to, the ideologies we read or hear from sinful humans, the things we do, the way we act, our priorities; everything! You say it's only fiction. My response? I don't care. Because its fiction, it's outside the authority of the Bible?
@davisia81791 Amen! i agree with what you said regarding the Word of the living God! however does that mean that people who have a big imagination, people who have a sort of creative thinking(which is God-given because God himself is creative!i mean look at the creation) are not allowed to express that? the author made it clear that his book is not to be taken literally. is it his fault that people are taking it that way? no. people will always misuse things and twist them up the way they like.
@annhalaseh Definition of fiction: "1 the class of literature comprising works of imaginative narration, especially in prose form. 2 something feigned, invented or imagined, a made up story." Yes, it is definitely fiction. It is not real, it was made up. So why do so many people act like it truly is real? Why do so many people take this book as truth and completely ignore what the Bible says about it? Where's the discernment?
Here's my problem with the whole "it's only a fiction book!" argument:
@davisia81791 but here is where u draw the line. this book is what it is, a fictional novel, and it is stated clearly, i am thankful for the definition you gave for people who dont understand what fictional means. whether people choose nto act on that knowledge is totally up to them. we are not disagreeing.
The problem I have with the book isn't what they looked like in the book I think it's more that they demean God's authority in it.in fact even saying that the authority thing is not real..that authority is a human construct brought about by the Fall, that God considers it “ghastly. In a sinless world in the beginning God tells the man and the woman, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it and have dominion…”Even fiction books shouldn't have this much "power" in christendom
Did he not know that the book is a fictional book!!!! the author stressed this point! read the book as a work of fiction! it was suppose to inspire us to start re-thinking outr preconceived notions of who God was! and the reason the author chose to use a figure of a woman was because IT NEEDED TO SHOW THAT GOD IS NEITHER A WOMAN NOR MAN, BUT that both genders are derived from his nature. The book was suppose to be read as a work of ficition, not a theology book.
the fact that the book is labeled "fiction" is irrelevant. the author could have written a fictional book that did not contradict scripture. i understand that this book is inspirational, but we are not called by God to be inspired. we are called to glorify Him.
It is interesting that these comments defending "The Shack" attack Driscoll instead of arguing from scripture with "what he was saying which is from Scripture." Is our goal to defend the latest Christian fad book, Narnia, or to know the truth of what God has revealed about Himself through his word?
I think the point of The Shack with the portrayal of the Trinity was to tell people not to ASSUME what God can look like. Whether that be physically, spiritually, etc. Too many people had the illusion that Jesus was white, or some people thought he was black. Some people often picture God as a guy on a big throne with a flowing white beard. These are all portrayals we shouldn't have and the author's point in portraying them so "terribly" is to tell people not to assume things of God.
I still wonder if the trinity is necessary or even correct as a christian. I find the passages used to support the trinity are possible for that purpose, but it could go the other way as well, which is that God/Yahweh the father is Elohim, the eternal, and the son is the first among all created beings, through whom all was created, and the Holy Spirit was just the spirit of Yahweh, not a separate entity. That's what I tend to believe until God guides me away from this
The Shack was just a fictional book to portray the love of God. I think he is saying this book is wrong because doctrinally, it is. But if you are just reading it as a fictional story that reflects the love of God, you wont be breaking it down like most pastors do!
Great book ya'll, just don't take it so seriously <3
im wondering if driscoll understands what figurative imagery is... because it is commonly used in story telling to deliver a point. The character is irrelevant... it is the point behind the Character that matters.... the lion (in narnia) is a great example of this... we know God is not a lion... but the lion is the the figurative portrayal of the characteristics of God...
also... Jesus did use this same figurative imagery to describe the kingdom of heaven as well as many other things...
LOL @ Humans claiming to know how God Will or Will not express his love for them, or touch their hearts. Humans have rules, not GodsLove.
GOD AND GOD'S LOVE AND GODS EXPRESSION OF LOVE ARE INFINITELY FLEXIBLE THAT NO STONE MAY GO UNTURNED WITHOUT FINDING IT THERE, NO MATTER THE WHERE OR WHEN OR THE PARTICULAR UNIVERSE.
Blasphemy is Mark finding his own judgment plainly ignoring the creative way in which God was sharing his Love, reaching the hearts of some who may have gone a lifetime without.
I've got a problem with Mark; a bone to pick, if you will. This man has decided that it is his duty to pick apart everyone else in the Christian faith. "Jesus, who being in very nature God," doesn't tell you that Jesus was God, Mark Driscoll??? God became human in Jesus.
You are an arrogant individual who finds some kind of enjoyment out of tearing down all kinds of people. I'm going to go ahead and guess that you've never read a book without a pre-made opinion ready to pick it apart.
The Shack is not about the Trinity. It gives a unique perspective on what the Trinity could be like. It's a work of fiction, which means Young isn't trying to proclaim it as truth.
Driscoll is an odd one to speak of The Shack's irreverence for the Lord, considering he's built a ministry round it; e.g., potty talk, crude, guttural humor, a willingness to say virtually anything to be relevant, cool--now THAT'S irreverence writ large. I thought The Shack was trite and not particularly theologically insightful, I wouldn't give it my recommendation, but I think detractors such as Driscoll are far more trite, as well as being utter pharisees.
I read The Shack, I do not think I now understand the Trinity, that's a strawman argument of Driscoll. A "graven image" is an idol, an object of worship, it does not mean a violation of the 2nd Commandment is made out by making symbolic representation of the Father to illustrate a point. The talk of heretical trinitarian views in The Shack is much ado about nothing--is it proper to talk of hierarchy within the Trinity now, when Jesus is in His exalted state, no longer among us? Good question.
1. The only problem I have with this video is him saying that it promotes goddess worship. It is explained that God APPEARS in that form in order to avoid reinforcing the stereotypes that the main character believes.
2. Just because you liked the book doesn't mean he's bashing on you. He's just pointing out inconsistencies.
3. People, for the love of all that's holy, watch your spelling! Aligories? Really?
It's fiction Mark. What it does is helps us to understand the loving God that we serve. It's about a man that endures great tragedy in his life, submits his life to Christ and learns to forgive.
I read "the Shack" and thought it was great at first. I now realize it wasn't and really appreciate hearing bible based truth. This experience has really convinced me that i need to know & understand the bible for myself or else it is so easy to be deceived. It would seem deception is rife in the church and it is essential we know God's word more than ever before.
Mark Driscoll, how ignorant of you to tell your followers not to read something. And even if God did have a specific sex i'm sure it wouldn't matter if God was man or woman. Or at least it shouldn't. Unless, your a sexist or something. lol
@tbw980371 Actually (not to bash your comment) it does kind of matter that God doesn't have a gender. If God was of either gender, we would be able to categorize him within creation. I'm also pretty sure that it refers to God as "He" in the Bible because it's implying a patriarchal relationship, which is the closest thing to our relationship with God. And it's not ignorant. Why would he advise people to read a book that misrepresents God?
@latuacantante121 I definitely believe that God is gender less don't get me wrong. It just bothers me when it bothers people if God is one gender or another, I say he is gender less. Some say God is male. And when they hear that God is portrayed in a feminine light they feel like its blasphemy. Which I find nothing offensive in thinking of God as having feminine quality's because he did create both male and female, as mirrors of his image.
@latuacantante121 I think the Father language is put there to appeal to people because its the closest thing humans can come to understand Gods feelings toward us. I operate under the assumption that in order for me to reject something I have to own it first. I don't discriminate when I read books If I disagree then I decide as I am reading That way I know why I agree or disagree I wont take Marks word that the shack is bad I will decide that for myself thats why its my opinion, not his
This guy is so wrong, who is he to tell you what\how to believe. The book was not meant to b taken literally, but get your mind thinking. Idc what anybody say, they wearnt there to meet jesus in person. No living person was. We believe because of faith. I have to believe that even if this book is 100% wrong, god would be proud that people r thinking about him outside the box. The lord loves us all, no matter what book you read. How god plays a role in our life is personal. But faith is faith.
wolverinesfootball16 6 hours ago
Humans tend to make models of things we haven't seen to help us understand them. Model of the atom for example. But I can see where making a model of the trinity for understanding would start getting grey especially if people started replacing the wonder of the actually trinity for a model.
stracinsrt4 1 day ago
Where is scripture does it say that God is expressly male? and in regards to the graven images, what about Genesis where God appears to Abraham in the form of three human strangers?
Speaking of communicating the truth about Who God is, Driscoll is not doing a very effective job of that right now
jonstrifler 2 days ago
If I had a penny for every time he contradicted himself I'd have a lot of pennies.
EminencePhront 2 days ago
Even if this book have helped and have a message between the lines, it can still "hurt" us from reading it. With the argument that you should read between the lines, then twilight is an ok story about waiting for the right one, waiting with sex before marrige etc, etc.
The thing I think that Mark wanted to emphasis was that Christians are going nuts about this book. One proof of that is the comments defending it. Why should we tolerate anything false? Why not demand truth in the first place?
SeNoleT 1 week ago
Maybe Im wrong... but I think most people would realize God isnt an African American woman in a Shack. Maybe Im wrong... if I am, makes sense why religion is so Powerful and over abused. Im gonna check it out. Im now interested
chasingadream51 1 week ago
Oh, yeah... "If you haven't, DON'T"... This is the one time I'm going to say do not listen to Mark. Even if everything he said were correct and the book was heretical, he has also taught that, like in the case of Noah, God loves taking broken and even evil things and working miracles with them so that no one can confuse who was responsible.
kaizobi 1 week ago
Ugh. This is like watching my parents fight. I love Mark and I love the Shack, but there is obviously some serious miscommunication going on here. He is right in that not everything taught in the book is correct and that if the book were literal like the bible is, it would contain heresy. But it's not. The message isn't "who is God?", the message is "What kind of relationship does God want with us?"
kaizobi 1 week ago 3
The Shack helped me considerably through a very dark time in life. But I am not foolish enough to draw theological truths and base my Christianity on it or another novel of intrigue! SHEESH. I think Driscoll here insults the intelligence of the reader. The Shack isn't meant to be an extra book added to the Bible!
RansomBackus7 1 week ago
Novels are exempt from theological error. The Shack wasn't meant to be a comprehensive theological statement, it was a "what if" kind of book, exploring concepts outside of the conventional norm of religion. I say if you are going to attack The Shack for having theological error, you may as well attack every other Christian sci-fi or fantasy novel for the same, because I promise you, none of those are real. Come on Mark, pick your battles.
RansomBackus7 1 week ago
Lifescythe 1 week ago
This has been flagged as spam show
These videos are aimed at people from the Protestant faiths and churches to wake up and don't leave the Reformed path.
But surely Roman Catholics when listening to this must think WO ! WE ARE TOTALLY WRONG. I mean the Catholic Church is full of images, statues, stains and pope pictures etc.
51wins 2 weeks ago
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51wins 2 weeks ago
You are an idiot!! Great book!! Don't judge brother!! Your opinion !! I have led people to the Lord thru this book!!!
Thesnag69 2 weeks ago
i never read it. glad i didnt!
hsmomga 2 weeks ago
THANK YOU!!!!
DianaD370 2 weeks ago
i recommend the book!
its amazing
BitchingDJD 2 weeks ago
Obviously he didn't read the book!
Delaware84 2 weeks ago
ya, he took this wayyy to seriously...
jc57704 3 weeks ago
8rebekka8 Unitarian huh? So when Jesus instructed us to baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, he was just being redundant? Or at his baptism, when He came out of the water, the Father spoke, and the Spirit descended as a dove, that was all... What? Just curious. The Word Trinity is not in the Bible, but the concept is implied.
tff3456 3 weeks ago
Yeah, I love Driscoll for the most part, but did he really read this book? If he did, he would understand it was actually about how God comes to us in our suffering. Mack's daughter was murdered in the Shack. So how does God come to us in our deepest point of sorrow? And I just feel like he just is missing the point. No this isn't a trestise on the Trinity. And it has its issues. But even Scripture attributes motherly characteristics to God the Father. Look at the Psalms. Idk...
tff3456 3 weeks ago
Four words..."THE BOOK WAS FICTION!!!"..........it CLEARLY states that the book is fiction in the forward and it was located in the FICTION section at Chapters where I purchased it! It's 'the message' behind the story....that is important here! I thoroughly enjoyed the book....a book I would never have read until I explained to a dear friend of mine that I was struggling with my faith after returning from a year in Afghanistan....this book....however you may feel about it...restored my faith!
Atheena71 3 weeks ago
hmmm if you read the book, Mark Driscoll, you would not simplify the book as you did....nor would you be so sarcastic....are you really that closed minded???/
kisslack 3 weeks ago
I recommend for anyone who is thinking about reading this book to not be put off by what Mark says. We are to test everything for ourselves. It is your Christianity you have to live, not Mark's. I personally found this book really encouraging and although i didn't agree with everything that was said i enjoyed it nonetheless. The bible is my primary source of doctrine on the trinity, not The Shack
kingkeane99 3 weeks ago
@kingkeane99
I did read it.....I was put off by it without Mark's teaching.
southernchelz 2 weeks ago
Not to be mean or start any kind of fight on here, but did he even read the book? I like some of Marks things, but this video has been one of the biggest waste of time. I truly wish I had that 7 minutes and 47 seconds back.
1ahrens 3 weeks ago
The Shack is ALLEGORY pure and simple and is an incredible novel. Inspiring for those who are not closed minded and try to put God in a box. Beware of the religious spirit! Wikipedia explains allegory perfectly.
devorah1961 3 weeks ago
i hate this guy so damn much,, he makes humans look so ignorant.
shadowsofthenight83 4 weeks ago
@shadowsofthenight83 because we are..
kman7894 3 weeks ago
This guy clearly doesn't get allegory. In Genesis God 'walked' in the Garden of Eden. Clearly God is spirit so he didn't literary walk in the garden. There are many other similar examples in the Bible. It's allegory, it's myth, it's mystery, it's the Trinity. The Shack is an allegory of the Trinity and attempts to smash our ideas of God and stop pig-headed puritans like this guy trying to put God in a box; a false God who is obsessed with hatred and violence and throwing people in hell.
djhooten 4 weeks ago in playlist Mark Driscoll
It's just an analogy. You are taking it way to seriously
JoshnRenee 1 month ago
Calling God the father God the mother would change everything! Like, uh, the pronouns...
pondlock 1 month ago
Ministers like this frustrate me! I have read the book not once but several times just to see if I truly missed something. I think there is better things to do from the pulpit than have needless book reviews, Mark, why don't you spend time preaching salvation instead of presenting us with an Oprah Winfrey book review?
palobryan 1 month ago
@palobryan AMEEEN!
HappyRoadCone 4 weeks ago
@norse82
norse82 1 month ago
Why feel so threatened by a work of fiction? Why do you also assume adult Christians will embrace a work of fiction as a work of systematic theology? The word "pharisee" came to mind as I saw this pastor struggle with fictional metaphors that pulled him out of his religious comfort zone. The pastor's teaching of trinitarian equality, distinctness, inseparability, unity, deference, etc. are accurate, and they are critical truths, but the Shack does not threaten those truths. It opens dialogue.
employeelaw 1 month ago
I listen to Mark Driscoll a lot and I enjoy his sermons. However, I disagree with the way he worded this. Exodus 20:4 is more so teaching about idols and obviously if you are making "the Shack" as your only source of the teaching of the trinity, then that's not right. The Bible and a well taught Bible teacher is where you should go. I do agree with the part about Modalism. But it really just goes back to saying "The Shack is ONLY a story" and nothing else.
conradma 1 month ago
So do you think Driscoll's not for Aslan then?
jmaclean21 1 month ago
Can't believe how argumentative people are about this book. I read it, and if you get caught up in 'God became a woman' you really have missed the point of the book. Bottom line: God can be who ever you need him to be at anytime. He can love you like a mother, be your brother etc God is neither male nor female, he is spirit. Just read it and see how the trinity functions to meet your needs whatever they are.
TheJohnniekro 1 month ago
@TheJohnniekro I think the same way. People become so limited in their thoughts even they don't want to. If you read the book, then let it change yourself. Of course we all have so many questions, but that's why we are people and not God. He is trully a spirit and not a fe/male body like many of us think. I wrote "He" because I'm just a human being who is limited by language. Love is what He is out there and we should give love too. Is it so hard to understand...
TheCroatiansea 1 month ago
Rather than not reading The Shack, I wouldn't diminish the image of someone like that.
manunarukitty 1 month ago
in the story mac gets a letter that says God wants to meet him....ah wait, it's a story! Lord of the Rings won't tell me much about the Trinity either but I'll still read it...as a story
NgIGodfather 1 month ago
"The Shack?" Never heard of it.
EdM021 1 month ago
continuation...I think this also goes with books like the Shack and other bible inspired materials. Hope you give it another chance and not judge it directly. Personally it took me by surprise also at first but a lot was revealed as I go through my reading. It is not heretical. It only tried to break traditionalism, racism and being religious. It magnifies God's intent for us to be in a relationship with Him and I think that is the most important thing that we should have personally. God bless!
renejune042501 1 month ago
try to read the book completely and read between the lines. do not interpret it literally. the book is just like Narnia by C.S. Lewis in the case that the message is embedded within the story not the story itself. Also The Shack can never replace the bible, we agree with that but there are a lot of books that are bible inspired just like songs in church. they are not all from Psalms and Songs of Solomon but they still were written to worship God and edify all of us.
renejune042501 1 month ago 7
i'm with you @renejune042501
kyla859 1 month ago
I advise strongly against fundamentalism like this. To view God as resembling a man as has come to happen as a result of the fundamentalist mentality with regards to the bible commits the supposed heresy that he talks about. Perhaps if people like Mark did not take everything literally at face value they would be able to read into allegory and find something much more profound than they could have imagined. Jesus instructed every man and woman: omnia probate tenete bonum
superkillmondo 1 month ago
@superkillmondo -"prove all things and hold fast to the good". Do not deafen yourself to God speaking and remember that the bible was written by men seeking to understand the divine and the holy and that it is a library of mythology, history, parables, poetry, and allegory. I urge to to consider the graven image of the creation of Adam (the painting). Remember, Nihil sub sole novum.
superkillmondo 1 month ago
Please don't let what this man says dishearten you. Read The Shack and make up your own mind about it.
YoManLetMeTry 2 months ago
please read the entire book before making judgments.
wingpog 2 months ago
The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are one because the Son and the Holy Spirit are dependant upon the Father’s leadership, power, and creativity. There is no division among them because they know who the boss is - The Father. The Son is not the Father's replacement as would be with humans that die. Jesus came in the flesh and everything Jesus did was His Father’s plan and Jesus submitted to it. This is why His life was sinless. Jesus always did and always will serve the Father.
theaddchronicles 2 months ago
so C.S. Lewis fell right off his rocker when he portrayed God as a lion- Aslan? Come on Pastor Mark, i love you, you're my favorite pastor. you're so annointed. but the book was never meant to be a theological exposition. it's a story that should be taken for what its worth and re-interpreted through the lens of Scripture.
hunterdoesmagic 2 months ago
@hunterdoesmagic The Chronicles of Narnia are an allegory. While we are not supposed to make images of God, there is an understanding that God is not literally a lion. Also, the Bible makes such comparisons like in Amos 3:8. The Bible never compares God to a woman
Additionally, there is no appropriate reinterpretation of this book through scripture, except that it contradicts the Bible. To say that The Shack does not speak on theology is like saying that the Narnia books are secular fiction.
QuelDroma366 2 months ago
@QuelDroma366 i appreciate your insight! my point about it not being a "theological exposition" is that, The Shack's not exactly the Mortification of Sin by John Owen. of course it speaks to theology, everything does! but it is a story, take it for what it's worth. i think parts of it can be redeemed DEFINATELY DO NOT AGREE WITH ALL OF IT. however, i believe it should be redeemed rather than rejected. thanks man!
hunterdoesmagic 1 month ago
2 Mark - Can you say FICTION? He never wrote it to be anything but FICTION. I saw the lion the Witch and the Wardrobe, but I don't think Jesus is a Lion. You are dangerously leaning toward critical. Did you hate Pilgrim's Progress, too? How judgmental can you get? The author said it's FICTION. It didn't really happen. But anything to make your mega-church popular. Go ahead and make your blind, judgmental observations. Forget about grace.
55strings55 2 months ago
There is no trinity. Jesus said I and my father are one. There is none beside me. There is one God. Jesus was God robed in flesh. The Spirit is God dwelling inside me with the evidence of speaking in tongues. I pray God reveals the truth to Mark. The trinity is not Biblical.
8rebekka8 2 months ago
@8rebekka8 The trinity is three people in one. The Bible shows that Jesus is God in Mathew 1:23. The Bible shows that The Father is God in Luke 23:46. This one is especially interesting because it shows Jesus talking to The Father. Finally, The Bible shows that the Holy Spirit is God in Acts 5:3,4.
There are many more examples of the trinity throughout the Bible. There are also a number of verses that show that they are one, such as the one that you referenced.
QuelDroma366 2 months ago
The concept of the Holy Spirit being masculine is man concieved for the most part, as the translation of the word 'He' is the same for she, it, that, those, and some other words. Check out Blue Letter Bible, search for John 15:26 and you will see the Greek word translated as 'He' is ekeinos. Then check Mark 16:10, and ekeinos is referring to Mary Magdalene. Therefore, our idea of the Spirit being a He is, at best, opinion of the translators. God is not a man that he would need a gender.
bacanright 2 months ago
Granted the book is very extreme about its description of the Godhead, however, I think the point was that our presuppositions should be left at the door when even thinking about the true nature of God. Aside from the Father being portrayed as a black woman and the Holy Spirit as an asian woman, the interrelationship between them, IMO describes that of God. All three are connected and when you speak to the Son, you are also speaking to the Father and Spirit etc.
bacanright 2 months ago
At the very least this book stirred up people to read their Bibles more! And that is the main thing: after reading any literature, reshape your thoughts and feelings by reading the Bible! Jesus is truly there!
lastkingdomcitizen 2 months ago
WOW if this is how he twists this book i can only imagine how he twists the bibles teachings! The book is NOT about the 'trinity!' it's about finding god in the worse of tragedy's & about the many ?'s that are unanswered that keeps us AWAY from god! YET MACK finds their are a lot of possible answers & just b/c we don't know the right 1 doesn't mean we stray from faith! THEIR WILL ALWAYS BE QUESTIONS. We must believe god has the answers.
zerenitythoughts 2 months ago
My grandma, the wisest person I've known, read the bible entirely 4x: "Their are 2 kinds of people in this world" & she pulled out a piece of paper & placed a few dots "Now tell me what you see?" I said "black dots" "ahh thats where you are wrong my dear the paper indeed has dots but you failed to see all the white, you see unwise people will fail to see the greatness & good in something because they are so focused on the errors but a wise person would see the value" The shack is exactly such
zerenitythoughts 2 months ago
his first point about the idols is bullshit, its an analogy to the trinity. he obviously didn't excel in english- Jesus told parables, so does he think Jesus actually thought we are literal sheep?
jooonlove 2 months ago
I wish Mark would pick apart the Bible verse by verse...not the Shack...another Driscoll video...
ylbenmuir 2 months ago
Mark,
I love you brother but in order to critique something you have to actually read it first. Paul Young in this book is not making God a woman or the Holy Spirit an Asian lady. If you read the book, "papa" or God explains to Mack that he is in the form of a woman because of Mack's past. I don't exactly feel that everything in the story is right, but even the author explains how some of the things in the story are actual events and some are made up, he is also not claiming to be right.
riddick46725 2 months ago
the fact that the book is labeled "fiction" is irrelevant. the author could have written a book that did not contradict scripture. i understand that this book is inspirational, but we are not called by God to be inspired. we are called to glorify Him.
norse82 2 months ago
ATUALLY, the "trinity" is not even mentioned in the Bible. That is an extra-canonical word. We made it up.
LOOK IT UP FOLKS haha, but anyway, I do think Mark may have missed the point of the book but Im not gonna bash, just point this out.
anatesape 2 months ago 4
It is fiction and should be read as such. IMO the author is not trying to explain the Trinity. 1:09 no this is not the "whole premise of the book". Why did you feel compelled to make this video?
curiousgeorge555 2 months ago
if we assign attributes to God that are not revealed in the Bible, we have created a new god (that is idolatry)
norse82 3 months ago
Wait, if God doesn't have a form and image - then why does it matter if we say "him" or "her"? And what a ridiculous thing to care about. God isn't about pronouns. If you spend your time thinking and getting angry about this, you're missing the whole point.
zhanknight 3 months ago
@zhanknight Women caused man to sin so man would still be sinless if it wasn't for women. Lol joking that's a terrible thing to say but i heard someone else quote that and it sounded funny. Shifting blame is bad
gilbert4321 2 months ago
The book the Shack was used in my life to bring me BACK to Christ. Had I NOT read The Shack? I may have never opened my heart back to Christ....Mark your missing the point of the book. Jesus leads His true Children back to Him in whatever way HE sees fit... Had I NOT found The Shack...I know I could have just simply fallen deeper into my own sins & may have never repented. I DO see what your saying but God comes to Mack as a women because Mack had too much pain with his earthy Father.
Chancey9300 3 months ago
@Chancey9300 beautifully said I feel the same way. many people fail to see the good in something by over analyzing the errors completely missing the point and ignoring all the good. Imagine if we felt this way about each other.
zerenitythoughts 2 months ago
@zerenitythoughts - Thank you. And I agree many people do that yes. I go, further though to say I really don't have to imagine if we felt that way about each other. Because I would say, "we", humans, Christians, just people in general...do over all feel this way about each other. We do over analyze each others errors and completely miss all the good in others. All people I would say, are prone to do that. But, imagine if all people viewed others the way the main characters in The Shack did? :)
Chancey9300 2 months ago
What a load of crap, clearly you have absolutely no idea of the word representation.
Patsclips 3 months ago
"Do not make a engraven image of God. What is an engraven image? Its taking the invisble God and trying to make him visible." As he stands in front of and emblem for the trinity. Perfect.
2kylesmith 3 months ago
I thought "The Shack" was about Shaquille O'Neal
hollisterpanda 3 months ago 28
@hollisterpanda Well you are right, but it is also about the Holy Triviality which does include The Big Shaqtus i.e. a large black woman i.e. God . However, this also includes Shakira of anime fame i.e. The Holy Goat and Rorschach from the Watchmen as Jeebus. The screenplay is being developed by Wilhelm Shakespeare and the B52's are composing the soundtrack which will feature their new single "Agape Shack." The tagline for the film will be "Folks linin' up outside just to get down."
smegmasaurus 4 weeks ago
@hollisterpanda - Actually I envisioned the Jeebus character in "The Shack" as 1970's Burt Reynolds. It helped me to get through all that drivel. It is by far the worst book I have ever read including the Bible.
smegmasaurus 4 weeks ago
@deemdt Which Bible verse says that?
norse82 3 months ago
@lukeyeo8 I agree with you. I appreciate Marc in many ways, but in this critique, he very well may be theologically correct in many of his points and maybe it is his job to point them out, but I wished he gave also credit to the good and healing things in this book, one of them being the loving relationship between a man and God.
avenueonline 3 months ago 2
I dont think people are mainly reading the book to understand trinity, but to crasp on an idea how God would interact lovingly with his created man. I definitely did not read the book to understand complex theological issues,nor did I agree with many of them, but to "hear the voice of a good shepherd". We always read the bible from the perspective of our personal and cultural background, that is why we need each other to complete the interpretation and none of us is correct all the time.
avenueonline 3 months ago 2
... God compares Himself to a mother a few times in the Bible... just sayin'.
deemdt 3 months ago
To answer your second question, Scripture says that the Bible is sufficient and accurate. So why look outside the Bible to a book that says MANY things (not just gender issues) that contradict the word of God, when wanting to learn about God?
norse82 3 months ago
@ VivLC You said I "have assigned human attributes to God by calling Him Father". I did not assign anything; the Bible did. And since all Scripture is God breathed, the attributes of God described in the Bible are things God has said about Himself.
norse82 3 months ago
The problem is not in saying that Christ was in tangible form: "though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men" (Phil 2:6-7). The issue is the Father being made to be a woman. "No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father’s side, he has made him known" (John 1:18). Christ, "is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation" (Col 1:15).
apsandlin 3 months ago
While I agree that the book is just a fictional picture of the Trinity... I have to say that Mark Driscoll has a very valid point. So many people are thinking that this book helps them understand the Trinity when really, it doesn't trult represent the Trinity. So if you can just say it's a good fictional book, well, okay then... but Driscoll is talking about claims that it actually theologically explains the Trinity when it does not.
Binadaful 3 months ago
the book is NOT claiming to be a non-fiction description of God/Holy spirit. Its a fictional book, allowing you to use your imagination and think about God in a slightly different way than how we usually do (which is narrowed and influenced by our culture). I don't find it useful to listen to mark driscoll slagging off other people's non fictional books. Isnt it better to try and undertstand some elements of the trinity rather than avoiding it as being too scared to get it wrong?
cappaslangmurderer 3 months ago 5
if we assign attributes to God that are not revealed in the Bible, we have created a new god (that is idolatry)
norse82 3 months ago
@norse82 Are you kidding me??? Whether it's in your mind or on paper, you've already assigned human attributes to God just by calling Him Father and by thinking of God that way. The book is merely trying to get our heads from being wrapped around this idea that because He is the "Father" then He MUST be a man!! but that's what you imagine isn't it???So I guess you have created an idol! He is neither female nor male but both.
VivLC 3 months ago
Respond to this video...He created us both so he has both attributes but that doesn't limit him to either one. God I would say is far beyond gender........ Is it not possible that God could reveal attributes of himself outside of the Bible? Or is He just "contained" to it??
VivLC 3 months ago
@7Skilletfan Maybe I don't understand your question. It sounds like you are asking "how does the book contradict scripture?" But the point of this youtube clip is to identify the various ways scripture is contradicted.
norse82 3 months ago
@norse82 Yeah that's what I was asking. But what I mean is he is wrong. I've read the book and no where in the book does it say we can understand the Trinity. It even says in the book that we can't understand the Trinity while being in human form.
7Skilletfan 3 months ago
He is looking way into the book. The book wasn't made to make us understand the Trinity it was made to show us that God isn't up in Heaven happily sending people to hell. And it also shows that He has a sense of humor. It even says in the book that we won't be able to fully understand Him. All it's really pointing out is that God is a loving God that wants to help you through your tough times! He only came in the form of a woman at first because at that time Mack needed a mother figure
7Skilletfan 3 months ago
Wow get on with the criticism, stop bashing the characters.
HooK116 3 months ago
Actually when it comes to images, if what he is saying is true, then Michelangelo was a heretic for making the Sistine Chapel. God the father is an old man in their. In addition to that the early church had many icons of the trinity, so unless they were all heretical, his argument does not stand at all, Although I do agree with him about the shack as being a bad and heretical book, just not for his reasons.
nate12387 3 months ago
I think Driscoll is addressing Christians that are confused and have no foundation in doctrine, but other than that I thought it was a great allegorical book that sneaks the Love that God has for us. That he would give up himself for us.
theeye001 3 months ago
Rather than reading "The Shack," we should be reading the Bible. THAT is how we should learn about God.
ntaylor97 4 months ago 37
@ntaylor97 I would agree with you except that the Bible is so often misinterpreted and misused to spread hate. Maybe a fictional book that teaches us to be happy with ouselves just the way we are IS a better thing to read.
tra1215 4 months ago
@tra1215 I see what your saying. Good point. Idk. I'm just gonna keep praying over every topic we aren't sure about, and hopefully we will turn out in a way to praise the Lord. :)
ntaylor97 3 months ago
@ntaylor97 - If you want to learn about Bog, then get down on your knees and start praying for him to appear. You will see nothing. That is all there is to learn.
After you figure that out, then you can begin to actually start "learning" about "real" things like science, history, or philosophy. If you even learn how to yodel or tie fishing flies, then you will become a more productive person. Hope that helped.
smegmasaurus 4 weeks ago
the fact that the book is labeled "fiction" is irrelevant. the author could have written a book that did not contradict scripture. i understand that this book is inspirational, but we are not called by God to be inspired. we are called to glorify Him.
norse82 4 months ago
@norse82 How is the book doing that? Everything I read in it didn't seem bad at all
7Skilletfan 3 months ago
I think that it's interesting to take a good look at the credibility of both Mark Driscoll and Paul Young. Nuff said.
LifterwiII 4 months ago
Whatever is popular among "Christians" today is probably some falsehood or heresy reborn in another form.
teel6060 4 months ago
Jesus likend God the father to humans in his parables all the time. The master of the house, etc.
TheBrockway 4 months ago
This is what happens when you read a book and already have a bias against it. To listen to Driscoll, I have a hard time believing he actually read the same book I did.
alnewberry 4 months ago
Seriously? It's a fictional story that some consider allegorical in nature. Obviously it is much more deep that your creativity is willing to delve. And if I were you, I'd keep away from calling something or someone a heretic - You are not the Holy Spirit, and God forbid you call something heresy that actually is not and then it would be YOU in sin my dear. :(
MrsDigrug 4 months ago
C'mon, the Shack is just a fiction, it's not primarily a book about the metaphysics of the doctrine of the Trinity, it's a metaphor about how God will push back the confines of our box to reveal His love to us, He will offend the mind to get to the heart. Personally, I love Driscoll, but I think he's misunderstanding the point of the Shack in the first place.' The best part about the book is that it offends the spirit of religion that is so prevalent in so many of our churches today.
Drooblemeister 4 months ago 3
@Drooblemeister wrong doctrine is wrong doctrine. Doesnt matter about religion :P
choiboard 3 months ago
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MovingBacksProducts 4 months ago
The book is a beautiful work of fiction, not a testament of the trinity. What a myopic minded fool.
Johnny22Hardcore 4 months ago
I'm not convinced that the Shack constitutes image worship. God the Father represented Himself visibly as the "Angel of the Lord". If not, the cloud/fire that lead the Isrealites is a visible representation, as is the language describing what Moses sees when God covers him with His hand and shows him His 'back'. I think the Shack goes to great lengths to say that "Papa" is merely a representation to communicate something about God.
The charge of modalism seems more likely.
CaptMysterio579 4 months ago 3
@CaptMysterio579 The Angel of The Lord is widely accepted as being Jesus Himself, as the Pillar that lead the Israelite's with Moses is a symbol of Jesus Christ being fully God and Fully man. It simply points to Christ :).
wok85 4 months ago
Reprint: Goddess worship has happened since Babel. Check it out: the following is a list of mother-child cults, starting at Babel, which pervaded the rest of ancient history.
Semiramis-Damu (Babylon)--> Ashtoreth-Tamuz (Phoenicia) --> Isis-Horus (Egypt)---> Aphrodite-Eros (Greece) --> Venus-Cupid (Rome) --> Madonna-Child (Catholicism/Islam).
"What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun"
Ecclesiastes 1:9
dougmoerhoffman 4 months ago
Comment removed
dougmoerhoffman 4 months ago
I think Shack is a pretty cool guy. eh denies the Trinity and doesn't afraid of anything.
dougmoerhoffman 4 months ago
shame on you mark. you've missed the entire heart of the story. your arguments are without merit and stretched way out there. shame on you mark. i posted your beautiful sermon on repentance on my facebook. i was accused of following a false prophet.
miasria 4 months ago
shame on you mark. you've missed the entire heart of the story. your arguments are without merit and stretched way out there. shame on you mark.
miasria 4 months ago
edit my last comment: all he do is flame what goes against what he read in the bible, is what i meant...
further more, he did not talk to god, jesus and the holy spirit.. is everyone believing this just because its in the book? it sounds quite simple to me that macks guardian angels, spirits or anything u want to name took the opportunity that he was fascinated about theology and used it to learn what everyone on earth should know, which is, love, forgive, ask for forgiveness and such.
Sucov 5 months ago
why does everyone take for granted that he really talked to god and the others? this guy in the book, mack, he knew bible very well and was theologist if im not mistaken.. now, he had quite few lessons to learn throughout that weekend and he did them all beautifuly.. i was so impressed when he forgave the murderer of his daughter.. this shit fake pastor mark doesnt even talk about the true love and beautiness in this book, all he do is flame what he read in that fucking book called "the bible"
Sucov 5 months ago
No stupid nay-ger could bee God.
Grandmastu 5 months ago
Okay Okay,
What about this. I just finished the whole book.
It's written beautifully, but the God part really annoyed me, which it shouldn't.
There is one line on page 149 where "Jesus" says to Mack: "Seriously, my life was not meant to be an example to copy."
Then we turn to John 13:15 which says "For I have given you an EXAMPLE that you should do as I have done to you." -Jesus.
I don't believe God wants us to spitefully argue about this book, but just to be discerning...what Mark said.
leafclash 5 months ago
I agree that no Christians should build doctrine out of any book but the Bible, although the shack doesn't teach model-ism or graven imagery, if your understanding of the trinity comes from a book outside of scripture then you've got big problems, I found the Shack encouraging with the main emphasis of the book being Gods unfailing love, I don't think the Holy Spirit is an Asian woman nor God a black woman. it is futile trying to picture what God looks like, rather focus on who he says he is....
JointHeirInChrist 5 months ago
@JointHeirInChrist Not true. Any idea of God that is not God as revealed in the Bible is IDOLATRY. It's creating your own god that's convenient to you.
dougmoerhoffman 4 months ago
@dougmoerhoffman I completely agree... that doesn't negate anything I said though.
JointHeirInChrist 4 months ago
@JointHeirInChrist Well, what that means is that even if you were somehow impervious to the false teachings in the book, the book is filled with idolatrous representations of 'god' and is guaranteed to make many (maybe you're fortunate not to be one of them) people believe in a false god that is more convenient to them--idolatry.
dougmoerhoffman 4 months ago
@JointHeirInChrist While it's promising that you're not susceptible to the false teachings of the Shack, the fact that you don't seem to find serious issues with it give me cause to worry that you may have weak faith (authentic faith, but very shallow roots, iow). If you didn't choose to believe what's written in the Shack about God, then He may very well be guiding you and keeping you safe--please get deeper into His Word so that you won't mistakenly support such teachings in the future. :)
dougmoerhoffman 4 months ago
@dougmoerhoffman Like I said, if anyone gets their understanding of God from somewhere other than the scripture, they have some pretty big problems on their hands. I think you may misunderstand where I'm coming from a bit, I don't think that the book was a heretical attack on the character of God to bring Idolatry to the masses, I think it was an attempt at displaying the love of God and the different ministries of God to us. You're right I do need to get deeper into his word, as we all do :)
JointHeirInChrist 4 months ago
@JointHeirInChrist I won't criticize you more because it's outside of the realm of my knowledge--I hope everything you're saying is true; wouldn't want you to stumble. :) I'd just like to give you something to think about.
Truth mixed with error is far dangerous than an obvious lie. How can Satan deceive if everyone always recognizes him for who he is? No, he will dress the lie up in truth, hoping that the less discerning among us will accept the truth and the lie along with it.
Be careful.
dougmoerhoffman 4 months ago
@dougmoerhoffman Well said, for instance Mormons, Catholicism, Jehovah's witness etc. These are designs of Satan to contradict the fundamental things of God through subtle lies and the evidence of their destructive power is clearly seen. Thank you for the encouragement to continue discerning the spirit behind things. I encourage you to do the same. God Bless you Doug :)
JointHeirInChrist 4 months ago
@JointHeirInChrist You too; I would only edit your response to point out that Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses are fairly obvious heretics, Catholics marginally less so. It's the ones who claim to be evangelical/Protestant and talk about the Trinity, about Jesus, about Grace, about Love, that you have to watch out for. The Emergent Church. The Unitarian/Universalists. The Episcopal church.
Be very careful--not only for yourself, but because you might unknowingly approve of heresy. Keep watch.
dougmoerhoffman 4 months ago
what the fuck? the book was about a man finding the grace and beauty in God throughout the most horrible experience anyone could go through. This total fuck-up didnt even give context about the struggle with losing a daughter to a rapist, and God helping Mack get through the struggle... fuck this man
all4uboom 5 months ago
its a book asshole
fight4yourfreedom1 5 months ago
this dude is an idiot i doubt he read the book.. wasn't about the trendy God was portrayed that way because he hated his father. God appears as a man in the last part of the book after Mack's relationship with his Father
brianmclanahan22 5 months ago
This speaker misses the point of why God was portrayed as an african american woman named Papa- I doubt he actually read the book. Probably only got opinions of a few who didn't understand. Reason God is portrayed this way in the book was to do exactly what this speaker is saying is biblical- It is NOT HERESY! Mack, the main character, thought of God the father as a man looking much like Gandolf from Lord of the rings. God appearing as a woman was a way of saying God is neither man nor woman.
dpassmaniv 5 months ago
Hmm. You know, it's sad that in 2011, the points he makes can bring about an "Eh. Whatever. So what?" response. Guys, this is serious stuff. It's not "no big deal" if we screw up our view on the trinity. It's a big deal.
GeekingForJesus 5 months ago
the trinity isn't suppose to make seance i think it was the conceal of Nicene who made it that way so that god would be one step ahead of everyone it cleaver that they came up with something like that
buciorjakub 5 months ago
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kkearbey1 5 months ago
so correct
ZIONISTMAN1 5 months ago
@annhalaseh continued-if we truly are Christians, the Bible should be what our lives revolve around. What our lives are focused on obeying. Thus, EVERYTHING in our lives should be lined up with the Bible for discernment. yes, I mean everything: the lyrics we listen to, the ideologies we read or hear from sinful humans, the things we do, the way we act, our priorities; everything! You say it's only fiction. My response? I don't care. Because its fiction, it's outside the authority of the Bible?
davisia81791 5 months ago
@davisia81791 Amen! i agree with what you said regarding the Word of the living God! however does that mean that people who have a big imagination, people who have a sort of creative thinking(which is God-given because God himself is creative!i mean look at the creation) are not allowed to express that? the author made it clear that his book is not to be taken literally. is it his fault that people are taking it that way? no. people will always misuse things and twist them up the way they like.
annhalaseh 5 months ago
@annhalaseh Definition of fiction: "1 the class of literature comprising works of imaginative narration, especially in prose form. 2 something feigned, invented or imagined, a made up story." Yes, it is definitely fiction. It is not real, it was made up. So why do so many people act like it truly is real? Why do so many people take this book as truth and completely ignore what the Bible says about it? Where's the discernment?
Here's my problem with the whole "it's only a fiction book!" argument:
davisia81791 5 months ago
@davisia81791 but here is where u draw the line. this book is what it is, a fictional novel, and it is stated clearly, i am thankful for the definition you gave for people who dont understand what fictional means. whether people choose nto act on that knowledge is totally up to them. we are not disagreeing.
annhalaseh 5 months ago
The problem I have with the book isn't what they looked like in the book I think it's more that they demean God's authority in it.in fact even saying that the authority thing is not real..that authority is a human construct brought about by the Fall, that God considers it “ghastly. In a sinless world in the beginning God tells the man and the woman, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it and have dominion…”Even fiction books shouldn't have this much "power" in christendom
Chey60 5 months ago
Did he not know that the book is a fictional book!!!! the author stressed this point! read the book as a work of fiction! it was suppose to inspire us to start re-thinking outr preconceived notions of who God was! and the reason the author chose to use a figure of a woman was because IT NEEDED TO SHOW THAT GOD IS NEITHER A WOMAN NOR MAN, BUT that both genders are derived from his nature. The book was suppose to be read as a work of ficition, not a theology book.
annhalaseh 5 months ago
the fact that the book is labeled "fiction" is irrelevant. the author could have written a fictional book that did not contradict scripture. i understand that this book is inspirational, but we are not called by God to be inspired. we are called to glorify Him.
norse82 5 months ago 3
So, all the images for churches or the Ark is graven? 0o
DryBONESreborn 5 months ago
It is interesting that these comments defending "The Shack" attack Driscoll instead of arguing from scripture with "what he was saying which is from Scripture." Is our goal to defend the latest Christian fad book, Narnia, or to know the truth of what God has revealed about Himself through his word?
TheRealEstateBakery 5 months ago
I think the point of The Shack with the portrayal of the Trinity was to tell people not to ASSUME what God can look like. Whether that be physically, spiritually, etc. Too many people had the illusion that Jesus was white, or some people thought he was black. Some people often picture God as a guy on a big throne with a flowing white beard. These are all portrayals we shouldn't have and the author's point in portraying them so "terribly" is to tell people not to assume things of God.
GhostlyBagel 5 months ago
couple of false teachings in there yourself Mark. Hos 13:4
tongsau 5 months ago
Nice video. Michael Youssef had a good message about this as well
rickgigliotti 6 months ago
I still wonder if the trinity is necessary or even correct as a christian. I find the passages used to support the trinity are possible for that purpose, but it could go the other way as well, which is that God/Yahweh the father is Elohim, the eternal, and the son is the first among all created beings, through whom all was created, and the Holy Spirit was just the spirit of Yahweh, not a separate entity. That's what I tend to believe until God guides me away from this
peacewalker7 6 months ago
The Shack was just a fictional book to portray the love of God. I think he is saying this book is wrong because doctrinally, it is. But if you are just reading it as a fictional story that reflects the love of God, you wont be breaking it down like most pastors do!
Great book ya'll, just don't take it so seriously <3
SmileMissions 6 months ago
im wondering if driscoll understands what figurative imagery is... because it is commonly used in story telling to deliver a point. The character is irrelevant... it is the point behind the Character that matters.... the lion (in narnia) is a great example of this... we know God is not a lion... but the lion is the the figurative portrayal of the characteristics of God...
also... Jesus did use this same figurative imagery to describe the kingdom of heaven as well as many other things...
TheRobert1987 6 months ago
@TheRobert1987 Jesus, IS referred to as a lion. Read Revelations 5:5, Hebrews 7:14, and Revelations 22:16.
HDell1994 5 months ago
LOL @ Humans claiming to know how God Will or Will not express his love for them, or touch their hearts. Humans have rules, not GodsLove.
GOD AND GOD'S LOVE AND GODS EXPRESSION OF LOVE ARE INFINITELY FLEXIBLE THAT NO STONE MAY GO UNTURNED WITHOUT FINDING IT THERE, NO MATTER THE WHERE OR WHEN OR THE PARTICULAR UNIVERSE.
Blasphemy is Mark finding his own judgment plainly ignoring the creative way in which God was sharing his Love, reaching the hearts of some who may have gone a lifetime without.
Brahmanfire 6 months ago
I've got a problem with Mark; a bone to pick, if you will. This man has decided that it is his duty to pick apart everyone else in the Christian faith. "Jesus, who being in very nature God," doesn't tell you that Jesus was God, Mark Driscoll??? God became human in Jesus.
You are an arrogant individual who finds some kind of enjoyment out of tearing down all kinds of people. I'm going to go ahead and guess that you've never read a book without a pre-made opinion ready to pick it apart.
mrunge340 6 months ago
The Shack is not about the Trinity. It gives a unique perspective on what the Trinity could be like. It's a work of fiction, which means Young isn't trying to proclaim it as truth.
mrunge340 6 months ago 2
Driscoll is an odd one to speak of The Shack's irreverence for the Lord, considering he's built a ministry round it; e.g., potty talk, crude, guttural humor, a willingness to say virtually anything to be relevant, cool--now THAT'S irreverence writ large. I thought The Shack was trite and not particularly theologically insightful, I wouldn't give it my recommendation, but I think detractors such as Driscoll are far more trite, as well as being utter pharisees.
Miketheprofessor 6 months ago
I read The Shack, I do not think I now understand the Trinity, that's a strawman argument of Driscoll. A "graven image" is an idol, an object of worship, it does not mean a violation of the 2nd Commandment is made out by making symbolic representation of the Father to illustrate a point. The talk of heretical trinitarian views in The Shack is much ado about nothing--is it proper to talk of hierarchy within the Trinity now, when Jesus is in His exalted state, no longer among us? Good question.
Miketheprofessor 6 months ago
Wow, some retarded comments.
1. The only problem I have with this video is him saying that it promotes goddess worship. It is explained that God APPEARS in that form in order to avoid reinforcing the stereotypes that the main character believes.
2. Just because you liked the book doesn't mean he's bashing on you. He's just pointing out inconsistencies.
3. People, for the love of all that's holy, watch your spelling! Aligories? Really?
latuacantante121 6 months ago
BAHAHAHHAHAHA. APPARENTLY THIS MAN HAS NEVER HEARD OF ALIGORIES!!!!!
Caelgut 6 months ago
It's fiction Mark. What it does is helps us to understand the loving God that we serve. It's about a man that endures great tragedy in his life, submits his life to Christ and learns to forgive.
eccentricgirlxoxo 6 months ago
I think the book has some benefits, I mean God CAN work through anything, but at the same time I do agree with what Mark says in this video.
porduende 6 months ago
I read "the Shack" and thought it was great at first. I now realize it wasn't and really appreciate hearing bible based truth. This experience has really convinced me that i need to know & understand the bible for myself or else it is so easy to be deceived. It would seem deception is rife in the church and it is essential we know God's word more than ever before.
kimmidoll123 6 months ago
Mark Driscoll, how ignorant of you to tell your followers not to read something. And even if God did have a specific sex i'm sure it wouldn't matter if God was man or woman. Or at least it shouldn't. Unless, your a sexist or something. lol
tbw980371 6 months ago
@tbw980371 Actually (not to bash your comment) it does kind of matter that God doesn't have a gender. If God was of either gender, we would be able to categorize him within creation. I'm also pretty sure that it refers to God as "He" in the Bible because it's implying a patriarchal relationship, which is the closest thing to our relationship with God. And it's not ignorant. Why would he advise people to read a book that misrepresents God?
latuacantante121 6 months ago
@latuacantante121 I definitely believe that God is gender less don't get me wrong. It just bothers me when it bothers people if God is one gender or another, I say he is gender less. Some say God is male. And when they hear that God is portrayed in a feminine light they feel like its blasphemy. Which I find nothing offensive in thinking of God as having feminine quality's because he did create both male and female, as mirrors of his image.
tbw980371 6 months ago
@latuacantante121 I think the Father language is put there to appeal to people because its the closest thing humans can come to understand Gods feelings toward us. I operate under the assumption that in order for me to reject something I have to own it first. I don't discriminate when I read books If I disagree then I decide as I am reading That way I know why I agree or disagree I wont take Marks word that the shack is bad I will decide that for myself thats why its my opinion, not his
tbw980371 6 months ago