Melissa Harris Lacewell and Gloria Steinem debate part4

[treehuggerdude4]

5:15-5:37

thats funny, amy goodman shoulda called her OUT! Steinam was doing it again!! Steinam didnt aknowledge Cynthia Mkkinny, the female candidate of color who was running for the green party. Gloria chose a white person over that OTHER black candidate... AGAIN!!! I feel like Amy made that connection when she asked her that, but she said nothing, she just looked at her with that dissappointed look, lol.... Gloria, i am officially unsubscribing to Ms. Magazine lol.. well Done Dr. Harris! :D

[voulakarvelas]

1:51

[treehuggerdude4]

@voulakarvelas I LOVE THAT MOMENT TOO!!!!

[eicrabtr77]

Melissa harris Lacewell absolutely destroys Gloria Steninem in this debate!!

[Anoners]

I'll agree with them here.

[ACTINGDRAMA]

smh.

Moving on.

[ACTINGDRAMA]

The fact of the matter is that White feminist and black feminists are not on the same page.

And it has to do with race as it always has.

[Stormiya]

Gloria Steinem is definatley not guilty of that.

[Stormiya]

I also like the fact that Steinem mentions that if Black men had stayed with the Universal Sufferage Movement the wunited coalition could've voted and perhaps it would've been harder to enact violence against blacks. Its a fact Lacewell ignores in her attempted painting of black men as bigger victims then White Women.

[Stormiya]

Lacewell comes off very angry and she seems to aim a lot of it at Steinem for being a Hillary Supporter. Steinem has never been a very argumentive woman but I think she gets her point across very well and its very interesting that Lacewell was "offended" by Steinem's op ed piece and she cleary gets her "interpetation" of it but when Steinem claims thats not what she was going for Lacewell can't offer a new argument.

[BoysForPele1989]

Exactly, and Lacewell wants to play with identity politics within feminism by stereotyping between "second-wave" & "third-wave" feminist, and this is detracting from feminist philosophy.

[Fighting89Back]

Did you read her article? It's obvious you simply worship Gloria. Gloria looked nervous, jumped topics, and wouldn't speak of things that matter to oppressed people. White women aren't as oppressed as minorties. In fact, if you look at gender, women are almost the same as men in educational stats, but blacks are greatly below whites. But I don't expect someone like you to get it.

[Stormiya]

I read the artiucle and I thought it was great...but I don't worship Gloria...

I think comparing Vicitimization is a rather pointless because each group faces different challenges. For Example Black men with a Bachelors Degree still make more then White Women with a bachelors degree.

And if the primaries proved anything is that it in our misogynistic culture its still easy to demonize a woman.

[Fighting89Back]

"I think comparing Vicitimization [sic] is a rather pointless because each group faces different challenges."

Not if the suffering of one group is greatly more then the other.

"For Example Black men with a Bachelors Degree still make more then White Women with a bachelors degree."

Reference?

[Stormiya]

I can think of plenty of women throughout history who suffered just as much if not more then black men. It can go either way cause there are extreme cases with black men as well and then we will begin a debate on what is 'more' suffering.

The 2000 Census and I believe the 1990 census.

[Fighting89Back]

"I can think of plenty of women throughout history who suffered just as much if not more then black men."

Please, give statistics, not case studies.

"The 2000 Census and I believe the 1990 census. "

This is too general. Tell me EXACTLY where you got it from.

Secondly, what percentage of white women hold a bachelors degree in comparison with black men?

[Stormiya]

Statistics are hard because the history of women has been a history of silence. there has been countless numbers of unreported rapes and domestic violence cases. Thats why they have Women's Self Defense classes.

How is that too general? look up the Census 2000. they post just about all of the results. As for the direct quote I got it from a text book at school... a text I have since sold back...so you're gonna have to do your own homework there...

[Fighting89Back]

1. If stats is not avalible, then a general statement can't be made.

2. It is too general. Census 2000 has a lot of things. You can't make a claim and then say "do your own homework there." The burden of proof is on the one making the claim.

[Stormiya]

I read them in a qualified text book...I personally could care less if you don't believe me.

but the 2000 Census carries all that data. Still don't see how its too general.

[Fighting89Back]

"I personally could care less if you don't believe me."

Then why respond?

"but the 2000 Census carries all that data. Still don't see how its too general. "

1. Books carry data, but you can't just say, "It's in a book."

2. When citing a source, the EXACT source must be cited. It can't be said, "I read it today in the New York Times."

[Stormiya]

yeah um I am not writing an essay! I just merely pointed out a fact I had read in the past. If you care so much to prove me wrong then do it...Give it your best shot. This is YouTube for god's sake.

[Fighting89Back]

Prove you wrong!?! You haven't established anything yet! lol. It's so funny, you're downplaying YouTube while at the same time getting so worked up.

[Stormiya]

No I have I gave you a source. The 1992 and the 2000 US Census. Sorry if you're too lazy to look into that since you don't believe me...but thats not really my problem.

[Stormiya]

I could be wrong but more White Women probly have Bachelors Degree's. but that doesn't take away from the fact that when Black Male gets one he on average makes more then a woman of any race

[Fighting89Back]

It makes a big difference. If only 1% of women get bacholars, but those women make more, on average, then men with bacholars, it doesn't mean much.

Secondly, I've been in the work place of a while now. People from Asia, chinese, japanese, Indian, ect., do better then black men. I've seen many more women in white collar jobs then black men.

There really is just to much data regarding how black men are treated. To say white women have it worse, or even as bad, as black men, is a lie.

[Stormiya]

It does mean something...it brings into question why is a certain group continually being paid less.

Its not lie! Women have to be a bitch to be respected in the work place...a black man doesn't. Again I think they're on equal footing and arguing level of vicitimization is pointless..I'd also like to add that Black men inturn opress Women (black Women Specifically) and Gay's...where as White Women tend to do the opposite with both groups.

[PrezAlex]

Why did you argue something and then in the same point argue against yourself? We shouldn't argue level of victimization, but don't forget black men screw over all women, and white women are saints?

[Stormiya]

lol Never Said White Women are Saints they just tend to not vote as Conservatively...and if they are as privellaged as the last poster claimed then why do black men tend to vote more with White men then White women. Just an observation...and not a comparioson of victimization.

[PrezAlex]

"Just an observation"...hmmm....

Is it really rational and fair to try to pull the wool over my and our collective eyes like that? You said, "I think they're on equal footing ", and then went on to say that black men "tend" to oppress women and "gays", while women "tend" to do the opposite (this opposite being undefined) to both groups. This undefined and ambiguous contention is highly inflammatory and I believe serves to buttress not feminism but white privilege.

[Stormiya]

Talking about their voting patterns isn't comparing levels of Victimization. I don't see how I tried to pull the wool over your's or any one elses eyes. The opposite meaning that Women in general tend to vote in favour of Gay Rights and Women's rights more then Men (white or black) In fact in CA White Women were one of the few groups who voted Against Prop 8 and Blacks were Extremely for it.

[ACTINGDRAMA]

I completely disagree with that.

[Stormiya]

With what? Blacks voting extremely for prop 8? They did lol. thats not really something to disagree about.

[ACTINGDRAMA]

Compared to who?

You are getting you facts wrong about that. Who bank rolled prop 8, the Mormon church which is predominately white.

What you fail to realize is that blacks only make up 10% of the electorate in California and whites make up 63%, Latinos make up 18% almost double the black electorate.

So that nullifies that gross assumption.

the republican vote even if they are a minority in Cali. voted 82 percent for Prop. 8.

[Stormiya]

Well the conversation was about White Women and Black Men. I just used Prop 8 as an example and I believe the polls reported that 73% of blacks voted for Prop 8. I am not blaming them for prop 8 just comparing their voting patterns.(Whereas White Women are one of the few groups that voted against prop 8) Where you got the silly notion that I was blaming them is Beyond me.

[ACTINGDRAMA]

By you saying blacks are extremely for it, sounds as if you are saying that. in fact based on your comments it sounds as if you are saying they did compared to other groups, which is the furthest from the truth.

[Stormiya]

Well the topic was White Women and Black men...so what other group does that include? Obviously just the two i mentiond.

[ACTINGDRAMA]

You didn't say black MEN voted for prop 8 by 73%.

you said blacks, that would include women and men.

[Stormiya]

And? That was the poll information released. You can grasp at straws all you want but still doesn't explain how i was claiming that blacks were to blame for prop 8 passing.

[ACTINGDRAMA]

I am not grasping at straws.

You said you are comparing black men and white women. when the (taken out of context , by the way) percentages you pulled up we not of black men they were of all blacks (WOMEN and MEN.)

I made claims that fit with your wording of how blacks EXTREMELY voted for prop 8 as if to suggest that it was more then other races, which is the furthest from the truth and is impossible.

[Stormiya]

Actually not Really. If I remember right Whites, Hispanics and aSians all voted for prop 8 but only within 50% range where as blacks were in the 70%

[ACTINGDRAMA]

omg. Are you not reading.

"What you fail to realize is that blacks only make up 10% of the electorate in California and whites make up 63%, Latinos make up 18% almost double the black electorate."

Look it up.

[Stormiya]

LOL I already knew that. Again I wasn't blaming blacks for prop 8! but more blacks were for prop 8 compared to the other groups, which had more divided opinions! what part of that don't you understand?>

[ACTINGDRAMA]

If you are saying they where for it more then other groups, which is wrong. Then you are saying that is way it was passed.

You are not making sense. If the statistics show that latinos and whites voted more for prop 8 then blacks (because there is more of them in the state), then you are placing the blame towards the wrong group.

You really shouldn't even do that.

[Stormiya]

No I am not. I am saying that as a community more blacks were for prop 8 then White's Latino's or Asians. In otherwords their communities were more divided on th e issue.

Why don't you understand that?

[ACTINGDRAMA]

lol.

I loved how you danced around that.

wow. smh.

[Stormiya]

I didnt; dance around anything but whatever

[ACTINGDRAMA]

keep telling yourself that.

I agree with everything Melissa said and some of what Steinem said.

[Stormiya]

lol of course you do :) I wouldn't expect anything different.

[ACTINGDRAMA]

Wow.

how stereotypical of you. I could tell you were like that based on your ridiculous posts.

smh.

[Stormiya]

lol at the notion that I am the one posting ridiculous posts. Thats rich.

[ACTINGDRAMA]

lmao. Please explain.

Continue the stereotyping.

[Stormiya]

Explain what? That your posts made no sense and you failed to grasp that 73% of blacks in CA voted for prop 8? Making the black communty extremely for prop 8?

How did I stereotype?

[Stormiya]

You also failed to grasp that I was just pointing out the black community was extremely for prop 8 incompariosn to a lot of the other groups in CA! I was comparing the way each community voted and how much they were divided. NEVER did I say prop 8 passed because of blacks.

[ACTINGDRAMA]

I grasped that you were making a gross assumption based on articles that proved to be without merit.

Don't worry i was believed that bull too, until I took the time to do research.

You compared black men to white women, using a statistic that supposedly was talking about all black people.

Never mind the fact that, your suggestion that black men make more then white women is bull too.

Don't worry if I feel that I misunderstood what you were saying, I will have no problem admitting it.

[Stormiya]

How are they without merit?And I assume you're talking about the 'experts' who bumped the number of blacks down to maybe 58%? But even if you count those their numbers as a community they are higher for yes then the others. And just for you I specifically looked up black men and no results were available but it said black women voted 75% for Prop 8 and since men tend to be more conservative then Women I can guess its higher based on those exit polls

How is it bull? The census said differently?

[ACTINGDRAMA]

What said? What sources are you referring too? So you took it upon yourself to compare the black men to white women votes, using numbers that you guessed about. Where are your "experts"? You made an argument based on your gross assumption, that white women are some how more enlightened then black men, (I don't know why you bothered to compare the two) and are victimized more then black men, which is the most ridiculous crap I have heard. You may not have said it directly, but you alluded to it.

[Stormiya]

uh Cnn Is a pretty reliable source. Go look at their exit polls. They're hardly a "guess" (And I'm not the one who started the comparison, the poster i was arguing with did. duh.)

I think comparing levels of Victimization pointless since both groups face different kinds of discrimination. But I do fail to see how black men are so victimized when they have enough privellage to help oppress another group's civil rights movement.

[ACTINGDRAMA]

what!?

That has to be about the dumbest thing, you have written so far. You compare black men to white women, why in the hell would you even compare the two? I will get comparing the women, but the men? seriously?

I could see your lies dripping from you baseless comments. It took you a week to come back with that crap.

please do some damn research.

If you only choose to look at CNN as a source, then that is sad and shows that you are willing to believe the bull that is feed to you.

[Stormiya]

Its actually not dumb because different groups face different kinds of discrimination and claiming that that some how isn't true is the dumbest thing.

And I didn't start the comparisons the psoter I had been debating with made the comparison. Why is that so hard for you to understand? And then LOL at you having the audacity to tell me I need to do my research and that my comments are baseless. Seriously its rich

Its actually a pretty damn good source and there aren't a lot of polls on it

[ACTINGDRAMA]

So you got the numbers that you threw together from CNN?

I choose to do actual research and not just look up one source and go off that. In fact CNN has had panels discussing the misleading polls. You would know that if you actually read more then one article about it.

You are clearly stated that you believe black men are suppressing another groups civil rights movement. That is what is dumb about that statement.

[Stormiya]

lol There has been talks that the polls could've been misleading but no direct proof (Same could be said about the other poll so arguing this point is moot)

They're...so I dunno whats dumb about that statement? The sad part is the Black Community has had marriage bans against them...(Same with the Mormons actually) even Ms. Harris Lacewell said in an interview that the vote for prop 8 shows the" bigoted colors of the colored communities" (refering to the other groups as well)

[ACTINGDRAMA]

If it is a moot point, why did you even use the numbers from the polls. "lol"

I hope you don't believe I agree with the passing of prop 8, because I don't.

What I disagree with and want to make clear, is the constant vilifying blacks for its passage.

I believe when enough signatures are taken they, should be able to get it back on the ballet and it will not pass. I hope in the mean time they are able to be more of an outreach, to other groups.

[Stormiya]

The moot point is arguing which poll is more correct .

And I wasn't attempting to vilify Blacks for its passage..I used the poll numbers for the example because another poster was arguing the victimization of Black men Vs. White Women(because of Hillary V Obama) and i was just pointing out what I said earlier that for major victims that he was making them out to be they helped opress another group. so they obviously have some privelage.

And I'm glad to hear you're against prop 8.

[Facebook289]

Theres 3 things that are deceiving in what your conclusions are skewed. Its lies, damn lies, and statistics

[Stormiya]

I did use polls. Congratulations for noticing that and as for the lies part...please point out the lie. I'dlike to see where that happned

[DMSelena]

"she was trying to reach out and make a connection and MHL kept rejecting her. i think she was sad because it's a disconnect she's probably felt again and again in her career as a feminist."

This. One of the unspoken rules of discussion of privilege-issues among the oppressed is that the person who has more privilege is supposed to yield to the person with less privilege. That is why Steinem was not being argumentative and offering repeatedly to listen.

[kimmy90101]

But it was scary to watch Steinem. This is a woman who has been lauded as one of the leading figures in 2nd wave feminism. Yet what did she have to offer? A lot of it was just fluff, and a sort of airy-fiary sisterhood. I agree with Lacewell that Steinem did seem to privilege sex over race in its importance instead of seeing them as intersected.

[BoysForPele1989]

Steinem actually dismantled this claim, as she stated, within the concept of her op-ed piece. By acknowledging what Barack would have been faced if he were a woman, she is actually bringing intersectionality to light. And in the end, within a patriarchal society male is always seen as better, no matter the details.

[kimmy90101]

Lacewell was far superior to Steinhem in this debate. I felt uncomfortable watching Steinhem. Did you notice her body language? She looked so frail and her hands were all curled up like a little girl. She appealed to the viewer, the interviewer and lacewell based upon (non intelletual) attempts at humor, niceity and charm. All very traditionally female traits. At the same time, Lacewell was agressive in what could be deemed quite a masculine way and veered dangerously close to smugness.

[BoysForPele1989]

Actually, Steinem appeared stoic and Lacewell combative at first which eventually decrescendoed as she realized Steinem was not wanting to engage in a fight but have a DISCUSSION of thoughts. If we become divided as feminists how can we be effective? And I am not sure what viewers watching this feminist debate are searching for signs of patriarchal femininity to comfort them? That statement is an oddity.

[TNTrailertrash]

[cont'd] That said, there is no excuse for the hyper-sexualized way in which clinton is attacked- it just isn't valid political criticism, it's outright misogyny. That doesn't make her the most pro-woman candidate, though. I think that Obama would be politically prudent to openly condemn the misogynistic nature of the attacks on the clinton campaign.

[TNTrailertrash]

Wow, what a new concept, fly. You and everyone else thinks they know everything about feminism, without taking the time to learn much at all before saying such vitriolic and false "bullshit" about it, as you put it.

Obama is pro-labor and has been historically anti-war. Even if all you care about are women, to say that a clinton vote is the only feminist vote is patent white supremacy, and a flagrant show of privileged, ignorant bliss.

[ashken79]

melissa is sexy!

[theflylives1]

There's something else I really like about Melissa. Our culture is so shallow, dim-witted and apathetic, and yet we see here how passionate she is about political & historical issues. She speaks not in the accent of the cynical campaign consultant, or of the typical brain-dead corporate journalist, but of the thoughtful scholar. We need more Melissa Lacewells in this society.

[theflylives1]

Generally speaking, I don't like feminists. I think many of them despise men and brainwash young women to look at men as "oppressors," etc., which is complete bullshit.

Still I must say that Melissa looked impressive throughout this debate. I like how she spoke up for the historical challenges black men have faced, and how she rejected gender as the sole criterion by which to support a candidate. Though a tad loquacious, she comes off as sweet, sincere, intelligent, and very well informed.

[probert06]

If you read the New York Times piece first, you would understand Mellisa's outrage. You can't separate the article from this debate. Most of you have not read the Times piece by Steinem.

[Shiftyeyes516]

Melissa beat her bad in this debate - I do have respect for Gloria, but Melissa is a great!

[wh0m33]

It looks like Gloria brought a knife to a gun fight. I don't think she was ready for Melissa's

intellectual capabilities. I agree with what Clifford wrote, it is kinda sad.

[sabina1217]

I just want Bush out and somebody else in. I would like to see a democrat in office, but if I had to chose, I would chose Hillary because she has more experience and this country is at a very fragile time that we don't have any more room for mistakes.

[sabina1217]

If he/she is willing to backstab their opponent, when they are both on the same side, what makes you think they will not backstab the public and the country. We've seen it happen before; we though Bush and the presidents before him were so good, that is why we voted for them, but when they came into office it was a whole different story. I don't really care who wins.

[sabina1217]

. The reason for this is, when it comes down to McCain and whoever wins, the voters will consider all of the things that were said about the democratic candidate, and because nothing much was said about McCain so far, it will be much harder for the democrats to get any votes. That is one thing that I hate about politics; someone is always trying it screw the other person over to climb to the top. I mean, is that who you want for president? Is that who you want to be the leader of this country?

[sabina1217]

I think it is stupid how both parties are talking smack about one another. It just goes to show that they don't know how to respect each other. Instead of trying to point out the opponents weaknesses and trying to talk crap about him/her, they need to just focus on themselves; they need to lay out, for the public, their views and their plans....

[clifford25]

Professor Harris-Lacewell runs circles around Steinem intellectually. Steinem looks like she knows she's outmatched. It's almost sad.

[PersephoneSwimming]

she was trying to reach out and make a connection and MHL kept rejecting her. i think she was sad because it's a disconnect she's probably felt again and again in her career as a feminist.

[thirdshift47]

Throw in the damn towel,Gloria.

[mpgg07]

the reason why gloria was not as aggressive or assertive as ms.lacewell was because she didn't want to fight; it's not CNN or MSNBC u know; and although i don't agree 100% with ms.steinem and lacewell in terms of their candidates, i have much respect for ms.steinem and have been influenced greatly by her works; if anything we should be voting for ralph nader.

[bevlez]

No. Gloria tried to be rational, not argue and rant as Lacewell was intent on doing. Melissa was the one with "illogical" arguments. Yes, Hillary started out with AA support becuase the Clinton's have always had good relations with the community, but we see how much that mattered when it came down to race. Quit arguing nonsense, you sound extremely ignorant. Yes, they shifted support because Hillary is white. It has taken blacks so long to figure out she is "dirty"? hmmmmmmmmm?

[jdfodio]

Maybe I should spell this out more. If Hillary started out with over 80% of the black vote, even up until late last year, then obviously blacks weren't voting on race. They knew Obama was black last November and they were still supporting Clinton. Hillary is the reason why blacks shifted support to Obama. She's dirty and blacks can spot that faster than these throwback feminists.

[bevlez]

Lacewell is angry and has a hard time being rational. She should calm down. Getting 80% 90% of the black vote is monolithic. She did not "kick ass" she made an ass out of herself. Good thing your'e not a feminist "peaceful earth".

[jdfodio]

LOL! Any time a black person isn't kissing a white person's ass, he or she is called "angry". Melissa is the most rational person on that panel. And Gloria was caught stuttering quite a few times after Melissa shredded her illogical arguments to pieces. Gloria knows she sounds ridiculous. That's why she tried to make nice with Melissa at the end of this debate.

[Qrstnce]

How was Melissa being rational? She made a bunch of accusations which are not based on facts. For example feminism has most of the time come from a Marxist perspective, and then identified with the struggles of blacks. Steinem's work has. So has that of Simone de Beauvoir. The pioneers of feminism, and then later by Wolf. In looking at class struggles feminist have recognized the role of race in terms of oppression. Melissa hasn't read much feminism and it shows by her arguments.

[jdfodio]

Melissa wasn't making "accusations". She was stating her opinions, which are based on facts, her personal life experience, and other people's life experiences. Remember, just because something isn't YOUR experience doesn't make it untrue.

[Qrstnce]

Ok, well my experience and I'm sure that of many people who are gay is that Blacks have been great propagators of homophobia. This is something that even Melissa wrote about recently in regards to Black clergy against the Matthew Sheppard Act. Am I then, as a gay person allowed taking on accusatory tone against Blacks and making the same kinds of generalizations as she did based on her experience? Because it has in fact been my experience that because I'm gay Black men have shown agression.

[knowyourenemy1]

All personal experiences have a context--the context for Lacewell's claims (as well as Steinem's) is the *fact* of institutional racism & institutional sexism. In this context (w/ the addition of institutional heterosexism), your comments, Qrstnce, promote a racist perception of black communities responses to lgbtq people. Why not acknowledge that most racial communities participate in homophobia & heterosexism in some way.

[Qrstnce]

I have said in regards to ALL racial minority community. You however are bent on turning a blind eye when it concerns you to do so in order to maintain your argument. So that, white women haven't responded to the plight of black women, and therefore black women are THE victims DU JOUR, TOUJOURS. But then I ask you about gays in regards to racial minorties and your responses become deflective and blaming of others but racial minorities. You are a sophist.

[knowyourenemy1]

[contd] And then educate yourself abt the historical & cultural forces that differently impact each communities brand of homophobia/heterosexism by reading the work of feminist, antiracist, & queer writers from a variety of racial backgrounds. You support your views using a limited perspective: that of *white* feminists alone.

[Qrstnce]

Really? is Irhad Manji a white woman? Again, there you go with your assumptions. Irshad Manji calls on the Muslim World to take responsiblity for itself and what does she get? A Fatwa. Go to her website. What is she called? A dyke that will burn in hell. Those are not white men saying it. But as per you, poor racial minorties have been victimized into acting those ways. They are too stupid to break away from the mental stronghold of white ideology. As a Latino, I find that offensive.

[knowyourenemy1]

Have you read the work of any feminists of color? You refer only to *white* feminist writers... Do you really believe that white feminsts are incapable of of making mistakes in their analysis? Do you really think that white feminists know everything there is to know about racism?

[Qrstnce]

Well why not? You seem to be so adamant about the incapability of racial minorites of doing so. You seem to be so fervent about the correctness of the racial minorities against the white society. Then I can do the same. Again I'll remind you. I'm a racial minority, I'm disabled, and I'm gay. Let's talk oppression. Because being Latino has been 100% easier to deal with in terms of prejudice than being gay and crippled, and who endorsed prejudice? In my case, white society shown more than ethics.

[jdfodio]

Gloria Steinem is on record for having disagreed with Hillary on her Iraq vote and how to vote democratically using "preferential voting". Why is Gloria supporting Hillary if she disagrees with her so much on issues?? She's voting for Hillary because they're both women - period. Gloria's sexist.

Also, go Melissa!!

[Devin1498]

Obama supporters are so bad with nuance. Gloria Steinem is anti-war period. She simply believes no military action should ever be taken. Obama and Hillary both support war as "an instrument of policy"-Dennis Kucinich (who I'm quoting there) was the only Democratic nominee to oppose it. Now Steinem probably would support Kucinich if he were black and in Obama's place, but do you really think for one second that Kucinich is electable?

[jdfodio]

Obama OPPOSED the war publicly many times. Don't misstate the facts, Devin. It doesn't help make your point. It actually makes your opinion look very misinformed.

[Devin1498]

Obama is as militaristic as Hillary-and if you think otherwise you're a delusional Obama-bot (which you clearly are). He's proposed aggressive armed force against terrorists even after we get out of Iraq. So is Gloria Steinem really a hypocrite for not supporting Obama, or do you (like most Obama supporters) have a bad case of iconic worship?

[Devin1498]

Obama is as militaristic as Hillary-and if you think otherwise you're a delusional Obama-bot (which you clearly are). He's proposed aggressive armed force against terrorists even after we get out of Iraq. So is Gloria Steinem really a hypocrite for not supporting Obama, or do you (like most Obama supporters) have a bad case of iconic worship?

[deanlowe]

Getting 90% of the black vote is not monolithic?

OK...

[jdfodio]

Obama didn't start out with 90% of the black vote. Actually, HILLARY started out with 80% of the black vote because of their loyalty to, and familiarity with, the Clintons.

[Devin1498]

And Obama got 90% of the black vote because he's black.  Black America is voting completely on racist grounds-its just a reality you're going to have to accept.

[jdfodio]

As far as I know, Hillary's not black so how do you explain Hillary starting out with 80-90% of the black vote until late last year? Obama didn't start out with most of the black vote. Just like in Illinois during the state senate election, he started out with less than 10% of the black vote and ended up with over 80%. To say that blacks have voted solely on race in this election is just ignoring the facts. Read more. It's good for your brain.

[Donpopeel]

I should have read your comments first jdfodio. I agree completely.

[Devin1498]

I'm not saying black people are incapable of voting for political interest-I'm saying between Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama-they clearly went on race, and allowed themselves to be exploited by race baiting from Obama. To say blacks are all voting for Obama because they just agree with his policies is delusional.

[Donpopeel]

As a white guy I must ask you, if race is the sole reason why Obama is getting 90% of the Black vote, how do you explain Gore receiving 91% of the Black vote in 2000. How do you explain the overwhelming support Bill Clinton received, even during impeachment. How come it took Obama 8 months to overtake Clinton's lead among Black voters. Let's be real.

[Devin1498]

Obama began race baiting after New Hampshire. Obama modeled Hillary's victory as based on her whiteness. Henceforth blacks became became ugly sexist, racist, bigots.

[jade2002]

I must respectfully disagree. Obama modeled hillary victory as based on her own belief that she was the inevitable candidate. Her former campaign now openly admits, they did not have a well-thought out plan for after super tuesday.

I must add, Hillary won more votes after super tuesday than before because she really worked for it, while before that she really believed that she would win no matter what.

Sin of the hubris indeed.

[deanlowe]

Polls are way different than actual votes.

[IMEDINAPEACEFULEARTH]

I'm not a feminist, but Lacewell kicked ass!

[KellyNeubert]

Also, how rediculous to say what she said about white Obama supporters. You should not look for respect in one race while not having any for others. This looks a bit like reverse discrimination.

[djtannerisfat]

I think you may have misunderstood what Harris-Lacewell was saying about white votes in support of Obama.

[KellyNeubert]

Lacewell didn't mind the rules of debate. Both women brought up valid points. While I don't agree fully with either. I do dislike the ignorance on both sides and I think feminism has lost its main goal. Equality.

[kalane]

What do you mean by 'rules of debate'? In my opinion, Dr. Harris-Lacewell didn't seem to be out of line. And I think you misunderstand what Harris-Lacewell is saying about white Obama supporters.

[ExistentiaDementia]

Please read some books immediately. You just made an incredibly ignorant statement. "Ignorance on both sides". Wow...

[Foto1976]

im in love with lacewell... she is beautiful and intelligent

[thebestjasonyee]

WELL DONE DR. LACEWELL. Thanks for not letting Ms. Steinem get away with putting forth fluffy uninformed opinions.

[JeeprzCreepers56]

I hope to God that Hillary Clinton does NOT get elected.