McCain is a TREASONOUS pile of excrement. He caused the Forrestal explosion and yesterday sponsored a bill to DESTROY the Bill of Rights. But what do we expect from this INSANE ASSHOLE. Glad the VC tortured this BASTARD. Hurry up and die McCain.
yet after that accident all navy recruits are now trained in firefighting.....plus who gives a shit McCain is a fuck tard anyway.....his running partner just had a nice pair of tits
This video would be just fine if you could cite any sources whatsoever for your accusations. I mean, to say that a decorated Naval Officer who served our country as a prisoner of war was solely responsible for the deaths of 124 men is one of the most unethical, cowardly things I can think of. You should have a sense of shame.
Have you ever been on board the Forrestal? Any carrier? Ever been on a flight deck during flight ops? If you had been you WOULD NOT HAVE posted this P.O.S.! A bunch of crap!! I was in the Navy. I served on the Forrestal. I've been there, seen it & done it, buddy! Someone needs to remove this crap!!!
Youtube please remove this video. Politics and opinions aside, the FACTS presented in this video are wrong. Anybody can post an opinion, but it is unethical for youtube to allow people to post deliberate lies when factual proof of the truth is available.
You mean an intentional residual tail pipe fire? His A-4's tail pipe is pointing port side outboard, meaning any excessive flame would have been concentrated over the ocean. Zuni rockets have no heat seeking eye nor any other guidance electronic device. There for your accusations are a LIE! Shamefull; I bet your parents taught you better.
in this country we call fire fighters heroes for putting out fires here is a last living testimony of what American hero is and we all owe him he sacrificed so mach of his life to serve. after this man dies who knows who could come close to this man accomplishments
in this country we call fire fighters heros for puting out fires here is a last living testimony of what american hero is and we all owe him he sacrificed so mach of his life to serve. after this man dies who knows who could come close to this man acomplishments
I agree this is completely made up! Not only was I in the navy but I have family members that were fighter pilots in the navy and the air force at this time and I have never heard such bull. In fact this Forrestal video is shown to every member of the navy for training purposes. What can you expect from a liberal!
I agree with almost everyone who has posted; this is complete bullshit. If ever the poster of this video had considered sacrificing anything at all for his/her friends, family, and more courageously, our country, he/she would have looked further into the mater and realized that regardless of what happened on the Forrestal that day, too many people lost their lives that day, and many more were injured trying to save thier ship; only a sailor knows what a ship means to them. Trust me, I know.
1. The jet that fired the Zuni was across the flight deck.
2. It has been proven that the rocket was armed prematurely and against Navy regs.
3. Admiral McCain started the Board of Inquiry into the USS Liberty, not a cover up.
Video Poster: Before you slander an American War Hero, think about the sacrifices they've made for you to do so. Did you ever spend 5+yrs in the Hoa Lo prison? I'd bet you never even thought about putting on a uniform.
This is complete crap!!! McCain's plane was hit by the rocket and Chief Petty Officer Gerald Farrier lost his life while trying to extinguish the blaze. The Navy honored Farrier by naming its firefighting school in Norfolk,Va., after him. It sucks when just a little bit of truth shatters your stupidity, doesn't it?
Correction, the plane that the missile fired from was not "hundreds of feet away" like I said... but either way it was accross the deck from McCains plane so McCain still couldn't be at fault
You're an idiot. There was never a "wet start" The zuni rocket came from a plane on the other side of the deck, McCains plane was actually hit by the rocket. How could McCain possibly be responsible for the fire if the rocket came froma different aircraft hundreds of feet away? And what does the USS Liberty incident have to do with the Forrestal fire? I think you've had way too much Kool-Aid. So do you hate all sailors or just the ones that don't share your political beliefs?
This video poster should be sued for slander. It was proven due to Navy procedures the rocket was armed prematurely by deck crew and an electrical surge on another pilot`s plane (not McCains) caused the rocket to fire. McCain did not "wet start" or any bullshit like that. You should burn in hell for trying to gain political mileage out of the deaths of those navy men.
Try actually educating yourself about something before you go spreading bullshit about it. By the way...DON'T apply for a crash investigators job with the NTSB any time soon ok? LMFAO!!
I served as an aircraft firefighter.We were shown all the videos about the Forrestal fire throughout our training.The original rocket detonation was caused by static arcing from a crew member.McCain was the first plane hit from a rocket hanging under an F-4 on the STARBOARD side of the stern.ACROSS from McCain.A wet start situation is impossible in a jet.The flash point of jet fuel is too high.Like it's close cousin diesel fuel it needs to be compressed and vaporized to explode.What a DUMBASS!
For those worried about "socialism." here's some basic economics: If you own a company and you want to sell your products, the only way you can do that is if the middle class has enough money to do so. Stupid greedy fascist Republicans have taken away that money from the middle class and now the middle class is broke. Break them, and your company and all your wealth disappears pretty fast, right? (see the last 4 weeks for reference.) It's not rocket science. Obama wants to fix all that. Get it?
screw mccain and all of you reneck war mongers i dont care WHO started that fire vietnam was an illegal war any how. vietnam was a WAR CRIME john mccain bombed innocent people women and children he is a war criminal and was sent to PRISON FOR IT. he got caught. IMPEACH aND IMPRISON GEORGE BUSH AND DICK CHENEY THAY ARE WAR CRIMINALS ALSO.
You are an absolute disgrace to even try this... The missle went off due to an electrical surge. Electromagnetic testing in the Navy was started one year after on weapons.
This is absolutely correct. This movie is nothing more than communist propaganda. Regardless of politics John McCain is a war hero and we truly have no country left when a war hero is insulted by "citizens" of this place. Monday morning quarterbacks abound, none of them have laid their ass on the line for anything.
Yes, he'll be a snotty appeaser until he needs the US to save him from the latest dictator thug. They can't defend themselves becuase socialism leaves them no money for defense spending....my God, Agentina almost beat them! AND THAT WAS WHEN THEY WERE WAY STRONGER MILITARILY.
Zuni Rockets were highly susceptible, as with many other weapons to static electricity. We had to ground the airplane, as well as discharge static from ourselves.
There was no plane behind McCains. Bombs cooking off from the fire caused by a Zuni rupturing a fuel tank caused the explosion.
We were trained on this kinda stuff all the time. McCain had nothing to do with causing explosion.
The really serious problem with all of this is this one fact: Even if McCain had NOTHING to do with anyone's injury or death that day, it STILL DOES NOT QUALIFY HIM TO BE PRESDENT OF THE UNITED STATES! Because, really, that's what this whole discussion is about. McCain supporters want to show him as a hero. DON'T CARE! He's still just a fatter-faced G.W. Bush. His policies will be more of the same, which amounts to nothing more than killing America. THOSE facts speak for themselves.
The scenario you have created with John McCain's wet start causing the Forestall disaster is beyond ridiculous. Even if he did a wet start with his A-4, the resulting fireball would have blown out over the Pacific ocean as that was the only thing behind his aircraft. Please, keep it real.
You Dumbass,you know less about the Forrestal than you do about f*cking,this is typical crap found on Daily Kos.
McCain's A4 was parked port side,stern quarter,facing inboard,waitng for take off.The only thing behind him was water!
The Phantom was parked starboard side,stern quarter,facing inboard,waiting for take off and over 100ft away!IOW,they were facing each other with over 100ft between them.
The most likely cause was a power surge when the phantom switched to internal power.
hey idiot if mccain's plane was the one that cooked off the zuni which is a missle not carried by the E4 how did the rocket hit the fuselage of mccains plane. ive never heard of a rocket with a trajectory like this.
what? thats not what i said. u didnt refute my point or even contradict it. of course the bombs cooking off in the fire caused explosions. however a rocket was triggered and passed through mccains fuselage causing the fire which in turn caused the other missles to explode
This really is one of the most disgusting things I've ever seen. I won't even bother to go into why all of this is a load of crap. But to even insinuate that this guy somehow started this fire is below anything I'd ever see a liberal do.
Just because all of you are cowards and wouldn't last a day on an aircraft carrier without going crying to your mommies or the ACLU for relief is no reason to be jealous of John McCain's bravery.
Let's look at the footage. Where are the noses of the planes pointing during pre-flight? Inward to take up launch position or outward towards the ocean? Take your time.... Of course! Inward. When a plane is started, where would the flame shoot, forward acoss the deck to burn some hapless crew member, or backwards toward the sea. Come on, stand up, bend over and "wet start". Does your exhaust fly out you mouth or out your butt?
Read (gasp!) Sailors to the End By Gregory A. Freeman
So all of you who watched this and believed it, pat yourself on the back and congratulate yourselves for being this week's idiots. LOL. The video itself clearly shows the E4's parked SIDE BY SIDE, not front to rear like in the narrative, and Zuni rockets were not even carried by E4's, they were carried by F4 Phantoms... So hooray for gullible idiots! :-D
What was I thinking, I put the paygrade instead of the aircraft, I meant to say A4, not E4... Ah, it doesn't matter, that mistake still doesn't make me as dumb as the people who believed this crap...
LMAO, shut up man, I was an E-4, maybe that's why I said that, lol. Don't know what came over me, what a stupid mistake, haha. But yah, not as dumb as people who would believe stupid things like this insulting lie...
Electing a "war hero" as a president is the worst thing to do. Either you want a politician as a president or a maniac willing to drop bombs on people. If the latter is your choice, you'll soon find out that you will be the people being bombed.
Your profile has Austria as your country. Countries like yours and Germany, ignore your past and never learn from your mistakes. I don't believe that Obama is a Hitler, but he can do real damage to America. Maybe you want a weaker Amercia and you don't see anything wrong with Socialism, but a strong America is in Europe's best interest. Because we saved Europe in the past and with the US in a key role in NATO, the EU is safe. With Obama, your oil supply just might get cut off!
How true...Europeans, in wanting the US to be marginalized, are only cutting their own throats and giving away the free ride of securitiy we've been footing thr bill for for the past 60 years.
Weird, we've been electing war heroes as presidents as a pretty standard thing in America. Not all of them, but a good number of them. And it looks like it's worked pretty well so far... But I guess we should change our ways because someone in Austria thinks so... I guess we can become a world superpower by appeasing everyone around you and hope they like you enough back to not kill you...
Since when does sitting in a jet on the ground for a photo shoot in Texas classify anyone as a 'war hero'? Bush never flew a jet...OR left Texas...the coward!
Um, Bush has flown... but it's ok, Clinton dodged the draft and Obama simply never even volunteered to join the military at all. But I guess they are somehow better...
It's just too bad the missile was fired from ACROSS the flight deck, not from behind the plane. Unfortunately we have people who are politically motivated that would intentionally mislead people instead of delivering the facts. You don't have to agree with anyone's politics, but oppose it for legitimate reasons. You're only lying to yourself if you think lies like this actually matters. But hey, whatever makes you feel better about yourself...
STOP IT PEOPLE! Stop it! Enough with clandestine allegations involving BOTH sides of this election! VOTE for who you feel will be the proper leader of this country, but for the sake of God, Americans throwing unsubstantiated hate at each other from BOTH sides of the aisle will bring us ALL down. If we allow hate to rule us, then we will ALL lose.
Whoever made this video is a moron. A-4Es were started by an external crewman at this point in time (that means the pilot had no control over causing a wet start or not), also, HIS PLANE'S REAR IS OUT OVER WATER. So guess what? NO PLANE BEHIND HIM. The freaking Zuni rocket came from a plane nowhere near his.
TheRightNut is totally right about this. An A-4 pilot needs help from the ground crew to start the engine. To start the engine, the plane needs an external electric and compressed air supplied by ground support equipment (GSE). During the engine start up, the plane captain is in charge. This is about the only place and time where an elisted can cuss out an office. Many of the pilots that I have worked with, knew better than to piss off the ground crew (or their relief tubes would blow air).
I thought people who said McCain started the Forrestal fire were just being satirical. Comparing its absurdity with the absurdity of Obama having ties with terrorist when he was in elementary school.
This should be a lesson; officers who finish at the bottom 2% of their class at the Academy should not be given the keys to an A-4.
So what is absurd about Bill Ayers bombing activities in the 60's and his association with Obama in the 90's? He has never apologized for what he did. He has served on boards with Obama, he has raised campaign money for Obama and they are doing everything to playdown their friendship. If media would have done their job, instead of ignoring it, people would known about this before the primaries. The fact is that this story about McCain is a lie, Obama's assocaition with Ayers is NOT!
We who were paying attention learned all about Ayers in the Primary, and the fact that there is no association at all. No matter how often it is said, it is still a lie, and you are a liar. I would not attempt to use this video to question McCain's judgment, as it just isn't factual enough for me. See how that works?
The media did not cover this in the primaries, just like they didn't cover Rezko, Wright and ACORN. AP, CBS, NBC, ABC and CNN did their best to ignore these issues.
Noone said he had ties with a terrorist in when he was in elementary school. what what they are saying is he befriended a man who was a known terrorist as an adult. at best it shows a lack of judgement, at worst treasonous.
John McBush is a dirt bag and a traitor. He was living with his first wife when he filed for a marriage license with a drug addicted whore who stole drugs from a CHARITY. With all her millions she stole from a CHARITY. McBush collaborated with the enemy while a POW. He was seen as unfit to be promoted to the rank of Admiral so he ditched the navy and frustrated every attempt to get the prisoners who were not released back home because they would have outed John Mccain as a TRAITOR AND A NAZI.
I was an aircraft Hydraulics repairman in 1969. I also had to learn about the various propulsion systems consisting of TurboProps and jet engines used on various fixed wing aircraft because that is where the hydraulic system is powered from. "Wet starting" was possible on the turboprops as well. John McBush was a well known "hot dog" who did a lot of stupid things, besides the drunken bar room fights. The fire on the Forestall was the worst, except for his act of TREASON while a POW. I KNOW.
Were you on the Forrestal when this fire happened?Probably not. I am not disputing the fact that an A4 can be wet started as I have seen it before what I am disputing is how can a plane on the PORT side of the ship cook off a missle on the STARBORD side of the ship?That is completely impossible.All you are doing is slamming a man that is running for president.let me ask you what about Obama's ties to domestic terrorism?Were you a POW with McCain?I think not!
I am glad that you never worked on a plane that I have flown on. Stating "I KNOW" when clearly you do not know about how McCain's A-4 and the Zuni-armed F-4 were parked in relation to each other, shows you know nothing about the Navy. Ask any real Sailor, as we have all learned about USS Forrestal.
McBush had pumped so much extra JP5 into his engine that fuel was running across the flight deck before he hit the igniter. Burning fuel on the deck is what set the rocket off. The Zuni had a reputation as being unpredictable. I read the "official Navy version". When a high powered Admirals son is involved as John McBush was in an act of criminally negligent homicide: a cover-up is to be expected. I suppose you also have complete faith in the Warren Commission report and "magic Bullet" too?
You are so full of crap. The Zuni went off before any fire. A real Sailor would know that.
BTW. I studied the JFK assassination in graduate school. There was no "magic" to the bullet, especially when one considers that Kennedy and Connelly were sitting at differing heights and Connelly was inboard. The Warren Report is more accurate than the internet.
I saw a show on the discovery channel- I think. where a professor of ballistics in Austrailia recreated the cercumstances of the Kennedy shooting, & from lee harvey oswalds position relitive to the motorcade, produced the exact same wounds in the ballistics dummies placed as Kennedy & Connoly.
"Pumped so much extra JP5 into his engine that fuel was running across the flight deck" is the most retarted comment I have heard about this lie. I have over 60 turn ups in the A-6 and it uses the same J52 engines. Waiting too long to hit the igniters would have resulted in an engine fire or a hung start and damaged the engine.
you obviously didn't watch the video, you can see the rocket fly in from the side. the A-4's didn't have Zuni's, the Zuni's were used for defense suppression. they were on F-4 phantoms. the phantoms were parked on the edge of the flightdeck faceing inward with their tails over the water. the Zuni was fired by a power surge during startup. the rocket pods were not suppost to be plugged into the aircraft till just before the plane taxied to the catapult.
kimWSSmith that was the dumbest thing I've read on YouTube in a while, and that is saying quite a bit! A wet start cooking off a Zuni from ACROSS THE BOAT?! Jesus Christ! Just for the record not all Obama supporters are this fucking stupid! Just some of those that post here!
I continue to be shocked by the lies and smears against an honorable and courageous man's military career, esp. when it's a matter of public record. I assume that they believe that if it's repeated enough it will give it subtle or real credence in voter's minds: The Big Lie technique.
I noticed that a fair number of the text comments are from foreigners. Not surprising. Check out the YouTube videos "Another Obama Supporter","Gaza's Obama Campaign" and "Hamas Endorses Obama"
John McBush: Graduated fifth from the bottom of his class of one thousand at Annapolis. He then crashed five planes. Then he started the fire on the forrestal. But since daddy was an admiral he still got to fly. He was disobeying orders when he was shot down. Then he was compelled to lie about his time in the prison camp. And he is a whore for the Bush administration. OBAMA in 08
Fire started by a Zuni rocket, not carried by the A-4 sky hawk that McCain piloted. you are a Fool and Obama is dirt bag terrorist lover.
that is me I love ALL terrorists! I love their beards and their turbans and those really cool vests they wear. I love everything about them I love the way they pray to mecca. i just LOVE terrorists.
Various configurations of Zuni rockets have been developed. On 1 May 1967 during a sortie against North Vietnams MiG airfield at Kep, Lieutenant Commander Theodore R. Swartz shot down a Soviet-built MiG-17 with air-to-ground Zuni rockets. This was the only MiG aircraft to be downed by an A-4 Skyhawk during the Vietnam conflict.[2] Lieutenant Commander Swartz received the Silver Star for his action
Likely source of the Zuni was F-4 No. 110. You read it and weep. from the offical report. Mccain bailed out of a burning aircraft and returned to help with 500LB bombs going off. Have you done any thing on this level? before you ask, yes I have!
Obama has ties with domestic terrorism.So Hell yeah let's let him run the country.He would do a better job than that bum Clinton and his husband Hillary!!!
Domestic Terrorism? Obama knows you? It is really okay for you to say that you can't stand Obama. It is silly for you to lie about your reasons though. I know you must think that people actually believe what you are saying, but that is delusional.
As you think people believe what you are saying.My self personally could give a rats ass less what happens in this election.I cannot choose the lesser of two evils.Noone should believe the hype of the criminal liberal media.But I will pose this question to you What about Obama and Acorn?
Oh I see.Ayers was not a domestic terrorist even though he admitted the bombings ok.So what does that make him?I guess I'm confused.And he didn't raise money for Obama's campaign?I see ayers must be supporting McCain.Thanks for straightening that out for me Oh enlightened one.
The video shows McCain's plane with the tail pointed out to sea. But even if the F-4 was behind McCain and he did wet start his A-4, it would not have started the fire. The Zuni rocket pod is about 2 1/2 feet off the deck and the A-4 tailpipe is almost 6 feet from the deck. At start up, the engine's RPM is still low and a fire ball would only travel about 20 feet and rise upward. So there is no way that McCain could have started the fire.
I was on the Forrestal, parked next to McCain when the 1967 fire broke out. This video is completely false and implausable! Wet start? McCain's fault? Impossible...never happened. After years of flying it, I don't even know how you would go about forcing the A-4 engine into a "wet start." To begin with a "wet start" is just as it says....no ignition! No fire! Concerning his leaving the boat, John asked the skipper, Fred Dunning, for leave the next day and it was granted....no big deal.
My name is Dave Dollarhide. I'm 66 years old and was in VA-46 with McCain. That day, he was flying with one of our wing pilots, Herb Hope. I was the #2 guy in a separate flight of four and the only one to live that day. No skin off my nose if you don't believe me, tonewheel...been there, done that.
Thanks for lending some credibilty to this Dave. You forgot to mention McCain immediately volunteered to serve on the Oriskany right away even though he could've gone to shore duty.
Thanks for your service....I was on the Independence and Enterprise!
'Press On' shipmate. USS Constellation. Westpac '81-'82. Iran hostage crisis. 110 days in the Persian Gulf and NEVER got to fire a shot. Thanks to the peanut farmer we had for a President. *salutes you for your service*
Since you don't believe him, checkout the video by VibraciaX on the Forrestal at /watch?v=Q6l1rwQJjYg. This is the first of 5 videos on the Forrestal fire and producer of the video interviewed Dave. Also, check out the investigation report and you will see his name.
Antisemetic conspiracies? who brought that in? Sheesh what a republican thing to do...if you do not have a reasonable and logical to say, muddy the waters with BS.
I said what i has read..I also said I was not sure. You are the one that is so definate on what happened 40 years ago. Were you around then..I was. Have you seen the new film of Mccain that surfaced in Switzerland?
Whoever you support is secondary to the unbelievability of this video subject matter. Modern jet aircraft do not line up "nose to tail" as they did in WW2. Jet exhaust makes this impractical. Once aircraft are arranged to be started, their engines face to sea. That is a simple fact.
This video propaganda would make Goebbels proud. If you study the line up of the aircraft prior to the accident, the F-4 that launched the Zuni ACROSS the deck was on the starboard (island) side of the rear of the carrier, with her engines facing to sea (starboard), over the edge of the deck. The A-4 Skyhawks were on the port side of the rear of the carrier, with their engines facing to sea (port). The Phantom would have had to have been PARKED IN THE OCEAN to have been behind the pair of A4s
This vid is not even funny. Why does McCain scare you folks so badly that you need to put together trash like this? McCain's airplane was hit by a missle that flew across the flight deck, inadvertently 'cooked off' by a peice of support equipment, and hit McCain's external fuel tank. He hadn't even started his jet when the accident occured, and certainly had nothing to do with it. He jumped from his airplane into a lake of burning fuel just before the first bomb went off. Lets see you do that.
Since when does being in the military qualify you to run the most powerful counrty in the world? And is that why you voted for Bush idiot? because of his Military record? You're a fool and it's scum like youwho has brought this country down and it's economy to it's knees.
Another keyboard warrior huh! You're wrong again he was shipped out the following day the only persn to be transfered out. I know it is pointlessto argue with a simpleton like yourself but this country was found by revolutionist not followers like you and your Nazi elite butt buddy who you obviously have a crush on McCAin. You sir are a sad idiotic waste of humanity. You're 40 and you go online to insult people pretty sad. Get a job and pay your child support!
adrock you not only insult the dead sailors but the Beastie Boys when you post such ignorant BS. McCain is old and foolish, and Palin is a nut, but you help them get elected by making some people think that all liberals are stupid. You do seem to be on the internet right? You could actually look the facts up instead of typing total nonsense.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
I'm an idiot? I didn't kill 167 SAILORS the idiot your dumbass is voting for did! Anyone who votes for McCain is truly stupid.A better than a 1 in 3 chance he won't even survive his term which would put Palin in the pres spot = palin a self proclaimed "hockey mom"and wants to know "what does the vp actually do all day?"thats scarry!You must be a fucking moron I feel sorry for any childeren you might have.Keep voting those rep into the white house and watch them flush your country down the drain
I've also learned that there is usually more than one cause of any accident. Many factors are always in play. For example: The rusty WWII suruplus 1000 lbs. bombs, improper wiring on the launch wiring, the safety pins removed, etc. IF McCain did wet-start his plane, it would not have been the sole factor in the incident, or even a major one. The Enterprise has several similar misfires of the same rockets. McCain MAY be partially to blame, as many people were, but not the sole instigator.
I've been a firefighter EMT/Paramedic for over 12 years. If I've learned anything it's this: There is story A, story B, and then there's the truth. 2 or more people can see the same incident at the same time and have 2 completely different stories of how it happened. McCain may have been a hot-shot. Most military pilots were. Ever see "The Right Stuff?" That's not the issue. Argue either politics or the cause of the disaster. Trying to mix the two is like combining oil and water.
It's a fact that he did wet start his A-4 E which caused the missle to fire into a skyhawk. He was taking outta the aircraft carrier the next day (the only man to be moved mind you ) becasue the remaining surviving soldiers wanted to kill him. It's all quite true and you might even see the survivors come forward during this election.
Fine. McCain was a good pilot. Who cares? Why waste all this time trying to protect this guy's reputation like it was your own? Is this hero worship or something? Geez! What really matters is that this guy would make a lousy president in 2008, no matter what the fuck he did in 1968. It's irrelevant. Get a life of your own.
politico if it doesn't matter what McCain did in 1968 then why lie about it? Why post total BS? Do you want to help elect the crazy old fart by making Obama supporters look like idiots? If so you are doing a great job!
MCCain's "wet start" had nothing to do with this fire. It was an F-4 Phantom that fired the rocket, not an A-4. Funny, the whole thing was caught on the landing camera system and the deck camera and it shows what REALLY happened. McCain had nothing to do with it. This is all altered propoganda. It's an insult to John McCain (politics aside) and the brave men who fought this fire and those who died because of it. Talk about twisting the facts.
Jesus Tapdancing Christ. Look, I have no love for the Republicans by any stretch, and there's no way that I'm voting for another Republican president this year -- but this is slander, plain and simple. Appalling. If I didn't have my own reasons not to do so, I'd vote for McCain this year just to spite people like you.
I lost a friend on the Forrestal whose name was Russel Grazier. His favorite saying was: "When in danger when in doubt run in circles, scream and shout." I didn't Russ had died until some time in August. He was a great guy, a cycle trip leader for American Youth Hostels who saw three boys and five girls through five countries by bicycle no problem greater than a few flat tires. We called him our "Fearless Leader." How do you like the VP pick, Bullwinkle J Moose?
John McCain's plane was on the side of the carrier waiting to be rolled onto the catapult. No pilot, even hot shots, would start their engines (much less wet-start) while on one side pointing to the other side. It's unsafe, not to mention-THERE'S NO RUNWAY! The idea that McCain would "wet-start" his engine is crazy and only the foolish minded could believe such lie. It's amazing how anger and the need to blame someone can affect one's judgment and override logic and common (or uncommon) sense!
Yes, it's foolish, but you have to remember, this is a guy who is a well-known "hot dogger", has been involved in 5 crashes of very expensive airplanes (which says something about his ability as a pilot), AND, he gradutated nearly LAST at the Naval Academy. (My guess is, he wouldn't have graduated at all, if he hadn't been a son of an admiral.) So, let's put it all together: It's very, very possible that this foolish person (John McCain) could, and would actually wet start his plane there.
I knew people aboard that day. They we readying an aircraft to launch on the starboard side and SAW the Zuni flash across the deck into the A-4s on the port side.
They related the story LONG before McCain was famous.
Thats the facts. But I am certain you will continue to insult the 134 souls who died that day with cheap little lies.
As for the crashes, in the late 1950s' NAval Aviation was suffereing an average of a Class A accident A DAY.
Let say you're right about McCain's actions that day and about the downing of all those planes. Seriously, McCain is NOT a worthwhile candidate for a myriad of other reasons: He flip-flops more than Kerry could ever imagine, he's doddering and old with an out of control temper, his mind has been damaged from Vietnamese/Soviet style torture, and for all we know, he's a REAL Manchurian Candidate. Plenty of evidence to show that brainwashing really does work. Maybe that's what's happened to you?
politico, if you choose to criticize McCain about his politics, have at it.
As for the Manchurian Candidate thing. Which candidate has no problem with his supporters OPENLY dsiplaying communist symbols, and whose very campaign posters are obviously inspired by 1930's Soviet Realism?
A REAL communist, or political person with a secret agenda, would not openly display anything of the sort. In fact, they would likely do just the opposite. Didn't Republicans (Bush & Co.) say in 2000 that they wanted LESS government, LESS taxation, a balanced budget, a strong economy, low gas prices, peace in the Middle East, etc.? But, hey, look what we got instead. You can bet that whatever they say, their true agenda is just the opposite. You have to look at facts not symbols.
Even if he had the only recipient of the resulting fireball would have been the air over the ocean behind his plane. My question to you is, if you actually believe this nonsense, when was your last Elvis sighting?
First, the zuni came from the other side of the deck, but regardless, not even the most reckless pilot would dump gas on the burner cans, wait, then add spark to ingite all that gas to get a big bang on the tail. All that with live bombs hanging from the wing pylons.
Mr. Umbranoform, McCain flew for the Navy, I flew for the Air Force, and you're a moron.
John, and I quote, "Bomb bomb bomb bomb Iran" McCain is an epsilon semi moron that got fast tracked into the airfarce on his daddy's coat tails and has been screwing up ever since.
He will make a great puppetdent, senile and easy to control.
This is a load of bullshit. This anybody believe this guy. He has no idea how an aircraft even works. Get you facts together before you make an statement like this.
That's plain bullshit. The F-4s were sitting on the starboard side, the A-4s on the port side, all planes with their respective engines pointing seaward.
Lt Mcain did not wet start his aircraft! Naval Avaiators are not trained to do that. Thats Bullshit left winger. I was ordnance! stray voltage set the rocket off from across the deck.... Get it straight before you start kickin shit Maggot.
This video shows clearly that conspiracy theory are made up of people who do not know anything. A wet start did not cause the missile to go off but a plane had fire up it's engines and was facing the missiles. Second of all the missiles pins were taken out which is wrong protocol for Aircraft Carriers they are to be removed at the cat not before. John McCain had nothing to do with the fire. I served 6 years on board USS Saratoga & Kitty Hawk. I have seen the video of the fire 20 times.
This video is the height of stupidity and liberal dumb-fuck-ness. Why don't you idiots ask this retired Naval Aviation Chief Petty Officer about the Forrestal disaster?
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
Mr. Conservative Dumb-fuck-ness gets all hot and bothered when McCain's military record is question, but I wonder if he had any problem with the Swift Boat Veterans for "Truth," or the fact that the president he voted for got his daddy to keep him in the U.S. and he didn't even bother to show up for that, or that the VP he voted for had "other priorities" during Viet Nam. Repubs are going to play this card for all it's worth because McCain was one of the few on their side who actually served.
People in the USA need to wake up once and for all and realize how evil has rooted it's way into the political body and the media. We will all end as slaves if not dead unless we stand against the tyranny.
The investigation concluded it was just an accident and no one was at fault. Then he crashed the plane over Vietnam. I guess, McCain is just not a lucky guy.
I heard allegations that McCain did a "wet start" and that caused the plane behind him to catch on fire. Also, after the incident, McCain was reportedly the only person tranferred off the ship. Maybe, too many people knew that he was the cause of the fire. I don't care about either candidates since both are under the control of the CFR and will give us the same as what we already have. But the truth should be told nevertheless.
That is not what happened at all. EVERYONE concluded that a zuni rocket misfired, from an F4 Phantom on the OTHER side of the deck. the rocket hit either McCain or White's aircraft, parked directly across the deck from how the F4's nose was angled.
A "wet start" did not cause the plane behind him to catch fire since there was no plane behind him. they're parked side by side, diagnally as usual. The tail of McCain's aircraft, like the others was pointed at the open ocean to avoid this.
You're a despicable liar UMBRA. What you state is completely & totally incorrect. Your statement at the 25 second mark is slanderous. how exactly could McCain's engine have caused an F4 Phantom behind him's rockets to go off? McCain was on the port side & every plane on the aft port side & the direct aft were A4 Skyhawks. There were 7 F4 Phantom's on the aft section. All were on the starboard aft. the zuni rocket came from a starboard F4 towards the port side A4's. do some research scumbag.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
Was there an investigation? If there was an investigation, what did it conclude? If there was no investigation,what role did the McCain's big daddy, play in preventing it?
It is one thing to dislike a man and his politics. It is quite another to blame him without any proof whatsoever and in fact an utter lie, for the death of 134 US sailors.
just go to wikipedia and type in Forrestal Fire or Forrestal Investigation
all you need to is look at the diagram. McCain and White's A4's were on the port side. (416 and 405)Everyone knows that a zuni rocket misfired from an F-4 Phantom on the starboard side. Look at F4 Phantom 110 on the starboard side. Where is it pointing directly at? directly at the two A4's on the port side.
this video is a lie
mikebyrd42069 1 month ago
McCain is a TREASONOUS pile of excrement. He caused the Forrestal explosion and yesterday sponsored a bill to DESTROY the Bill of Rights. But what do we expect from this INSANE ASSHOLE. Glad the VC tortured this BASTARD. Hurry up and die McCain.
goohgulliscia 1 month ago
yet after that accident all navy recruits are now trained in firefighting.....plus who gives a shit McCain is a fuck tard anyway.....his running partner just had a nice pair of tits
darm9230 4 months ago
This video would be just fine if you could cite any sources whatsoever for your accusations. I mean, to say that a decorated Naval Officer who served our country as a prisoner of war was solely responsible for the deaths of 124 men is one of the most unethical, cowardly things I can think of. You should have a sense of shame.
U2bPsyche 4 months ago
Yep, you're a fuckstick, UMBRA. A liar and a fuckstick who lacks the honor to even talk about combat vets, much less stand in our company.
LagniappesGuy 6 months ago
What a bastard. He wasn't even injured but got onboard a chopper. That pilot should have thrown his sorry ass off.
lostindiancamp 6 months ago
134 gave there lives and you post this sick video just to make someone look bad. REMOVE THIS VIDEO.
vafalcon7 6 months ago
Have you ever been on board the Forrestal? Any carrier? Ever been on a flight deck during flight ops? If you had been you WOULD NOT HAVE posted this P.O.S.! A bunch of crap!! I was in the Navy. I served on the Forrestal. I've been there, seen it & done it, buddy! Someone needs to remove this crap!!!
DaveEagle54 7 months ago
Youtube please remove this video. Politics and opinions aside, the FACTS presented in this video are wrong. Anybody can post an opinion, but it is unethical for youtube to allow people to post deliberate lies when factual proof of the truth is available.
notgrwnup 1 year ago
You mean an intentional residual tail pipe fire? His A-4's tail pipe is pointing port side outboard, meaning any excessive flame would have been concentrated over the ocean. Zuni rockets have no heat seeking eye nor any other guidance electronic device. There for your accusations are a LIE! Shamefull; I bet your parents taught you better.
Tarten46 1 year ago
why
Tarten46 1 year ago
fhfhfjdujdwuuyef
Tarten46 1 year ago
Propaganda
Tarten46 1 year ago
test
Tarten46 1 year ago
Michael Moore is proof that evolution is running backwards. Umbraoforn is in the same slime pool.
CELESTIALARIUM 1 year ago
Just like a scumbag progressive, huh umbraoforn always trying to distort or change history!
MrMichaelPS 1 year ago
McCain's people are scrubbing YouTube of all but their own videos. This one seems to be a rare find, indeed.
cliffhammond 1 year ago
Michael Moore is a progressive bag of shit!
MrMichaelPS 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
in this country we call fire fighters heroes for putting out fires here is a last living testimony of what American hero is and we all owe him he sacrificed so mach of his life to serve. after this man dies who knows who could come close to this man accomplishments
airframedaddy 1 year ago
in this country we call fire fighters heros for puting out fires here is a last living testimony of what american hero is and we all owe him he sacrificed so mach of his life to serve. after this man dies who knows who could come close to this man acomplishments
airframedaddy 1 year ago
Idiot. Watch the real documentary, you dumbass, and see what ACTUALLY HAPPENED!!
Shamrocky34 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
This the biggest lie.
Tncx3 1 year ago
Anyone who has worked the roof and knows what goes on rejects this idioctic claim.....
hershman1956 1 year ago
I'm a Navy carrier vet....you are full of shit!
bulkfull 2 years ago 3
it looks deliberate like a bazooka was put under it then triggered making it look like the plane did it.
NationalSocialistUF 2 years ago
20 year Retired Navy Vet here - The added text is all lies and propaganda. Michael Moore, we know this UMBRAnoforn is really you
freakshow17 2 years ago 4
this video is complete bs i was in the Navy and find this totaly insulting to all sailor's
cypris2003 2 years ago 3
Terrible
crondike22 2 years ago
I agree this is completely made up! Not only was I in the navy but I have family members that were fighter pilots in the navy and the air force at this time and I have never heard such bull. In fact this Forrestal video is shown to every member of the navy for training purposes. What can you expect from a liberal!
crondike22 2 years ago 2
This video is total BS and is slanderous, the idiot who made it up could be sued for concocting such horseshit.
barflewk 2 years ago
I agree with almost everyone who has posted; this is complete bullshit. If ever the poster of this video had considered sacrificing anything at all for his/her friends, family, and more courageously, our country, he/she would have looked further into the mater and realized that regardless of what happened on the Forrestal that day, too many people lost their lives that day, and many more were injured trying to save thier ship; only a sailor knows what a ship means to them. Trust me, I know.
swagn 2 years ago
This is bullshit. Moving on...
scottwichmann 2 years ago 2
Here are the blatant errors in this video:
1. The jet that fired the Zuni was across the flight deck.
2. It has been proven that the rocket was armed prematurely and against Navy regs.
3. Admiral McCain started the Board of Inquiry into the USS Liberty, not a cover up.
Video Poster: Before you slander an American War Hero, think about the sacrifices they've made for you to do so. Did you ever spend 5+yrs in the Hoa Lo prison? I'd bet you never even thought about putting on a uniform.
PTPLauthor 2 years ago 2
This is complete crap!!! McCain's plane was hit by the rocket and Chief Petty Officer Gerald Farrier lost his life while trying to extinguish the blaze. The Navy honored Farrier by naming its firefighting school in Norfolk,Va., after him. It sucks when just a little bit of truth shatters your stupidity, doesn't it?
VaCowboy08 2 years ago 2
This is just sleazy ,, get a life ,,
KEVINBERIAULT 2 years ago
Correction, the plane that the missile fired from was not "hundreds of feet away" like I said... but either way it was accross the deck from McCains plane so McCain still couldn't be at fault
QM183 2 years ago
Does this dumbass poster even know what happens on a carrier?
swagn 2 years ago
You're an idiot. There was never a "wet start" The zuni rocket came from a plane on the other side of the deck, McCains plane was actually hit by the rocket. How could McCain possibly be responsible for the fire if the rocket came froma different aircraft hundreds of feet away? And what does the USS Liberty incident have to do with the Forrestal fire? I think you've had way too much Kool-Aid. So do you hate all sailors or just the ones that don't share your political beliefs?
QM183 2 years ago
This video poster should be sued for slander. It was proven due to Navy procedures the rocket was armed prematurely by deck crew and an electrical surge on another pilot`s plane (not McCains) caused the rocket to fire. McCain did not "wet start" or any bullshit like that. You should burn in hell for trying to gain political mileage out of the deaths of those navy men.
mrtonyis 3 years ago 3
Try actually educating yourself about something before you go spreading bullshit about it. By the way...DON'T apply for a crash investigators job with the NTSB any time soon ok? LMFAO!!
billtroester 3 years ago
I served as an aircraft firefighter.We were shown all the videos about the Forrestal fire throughout our training.The original rocket detonation was caused by static arcing from a crew member.McCain was the first plane hit from a rocket hanging under an F-4 on the STARBOARD side of the stern.ACROSS from McCain.A wet start situation is impossible in a jet.The flash point of jet fuel is too high.Like it's close cousin diesel fuel it needs to be compressed and vaporized to explode.What a DUMBASS!
billtroester 3 years ago 2
Wow! What a load of BULLSHIT!!!! Did you pull your "facts" out of your fucking ass?
BlackEagleOperations 3 years ago 2
Some jerks should be "taken out" and this dickhead is one that should.
oldsalt59 3 years ago 3
So funny Bomb bomb bomb Iran. Hahahahahah.
THERE ARE BABIES DOWN THERE YOU FU(KING NUT!!!!!
Bill1275w 3 years ago
You're an idiot, that's all there is to it. By posting this trash all you've done is prove you're a lying Jack-ass.
eklektos44 3 years ago 6
For those worried about "socialism." here's some basic economics: If you own a company and you want to sell your products, the only way you can do that is if the middle class has enough money to do so. Stupid greedy fascist Republicans have taken away that money from the middle class and now the middle class is broke. Break them, and your company and all your wealth disappears pretty fast, right? (see the last 4 weeks for reference.) It's not rocket science. Obama wants to fix all that. Get it?
politicoochie09 3 years ago
WHAT? Just what the HELL does that have to do with the Forrestal fire? Geez!
billtroester 3 years ago
screw mccain and all of you reneck war mongers i dont care WHO started that fire vietnam was an illegal war any how. vietnam was a WAR CRIME john mccain bombed innocent people women and children he is a war criminal and was sent to PRISON FOR IT. he got caught. IMPEACH aND IMPRISON GEORGE BUSH AND DICK CHENEY THAY ARE WAR CRIMINALS ALSO.
nukarr 3 years ago
Go suck Putin, you commie.
DonWeiUnderpants 3 years ago
You are an absolute disgrace to even try this... The missle went off due to an electrical surge. Electromagnetic testing in the Navy was started one year after on weapons.
mcs2003 3 years ago 2
This is absolutely correct. This movie is nothing more than communist propaganda. Regardless of politics John McCain is a war hero and we truly have no country left when a war hero is insulted by "citizens" of this place. Monday morning quarterbacks abound, none of them have laid their ass on the line for anything.
chewbaccathedog 3 years ago 3
my previous comment appears to say this video is correct. I was saying another poster was correct. This video is trash.
chewbaccathedog 3 years ago
Yes, he'll be a snotty appeaser until he needs the US to save him from the latest dictator thug. They can't defend themselves becuase socialism leaves them no money for defense spending....my God, Agentina almost beat them! AND THAT WAS WHEN THEY WERE WAY STRONGER MILITARILY.
gtc1961 3 years ago
I was a Weapons Mechanic in the USAF.
Zuni Rockets were highly susceptible, as with many other weapons to static electricity. We had to ground the airplane, as well as discharge static from ourselves.
There was no plane behind McCains. Bombs cooking off from the fire caused by a Zuni rupturing a fuel tank caused the explosion.
We were trained on this kinda stuff all the time. McCain had nothing to do with causing explosion.
But Obama's buddy Ayers caused a few :)
SavageShootsSweet 3 years ago
The really serious problem with all of this is this one fact: Even if McCain had NOTHING to do with anyone's injury or death that day, it STILL DOES NOT QUALIFY HIM TO BE PRESDENT OF THE UNITED STATES! Because, really, that's what this whole discussion is about. McCain supporters want to show him as a hero. DON'T CARE! He's still just a fatter-faced G.W. Bush. His policies will be more of the same, which amounts to nothing more than killing America. THOSE facts speak for themselves.
politicoochie09 3 years ago
The scenario you have created with John McCain's wet start causing the Forestall disaster is beyond ridiculous. Even if he did a wet start with his A-4, the resulting fireball would have blown out over the Pacific ocean as that was the only thing behind his aircraft. Please, keep it real.
NIBBLEHEAD 3 years ago
"keep it real" why would liberals do that? it's not their "thing"
gtc1961 3 years ago
All clips from a documentary that shows exactly what happened. To try and link McCain to the disaster, other than as a victim is absolutely stupid.
dighambara 3 years ago
You Dumbass,you know less about the Forrestal than you do about f*cking,this is typical crap found on Daily Kos.
McCain's A4 was parked port side,stern quarter,facing inboard,waitng for take off.The only thing behind him was water!
The Phantom was parked starboard side,stern quarter,facing inboard,waiting for take off and over 100ft away!IOW,they were facing each other with over 100ft between them.
The most likely cause was a power surge when the phantom switched to internal power.
lawnjockeyv8 3 years ago
Sounds pretty Swift Boat-ish to me.
Namerakis 3 years ago
hey idiot if mccain's plane was the one that cooked off the zuni which is a missle not carried by the E4 how did the rocket hit the fuselage of mccains plane. ive never heard of a rocket with a trajectory like this.
samsoG 3 years ago
The A-4 could carry Zuni pods, but this was not what happened. This conspiracy theory is just that. There was no plan behind McCain's.
The bombs cooking off in fire caused the explosion
SavageShootsSweet 3 years ago
what? thats not what i said. u didnt refute my point or even contradict it. of course the bombs cooking off in the fire caused explosions. however a rocket was triggered and passed through mccains fuselage causing the fire which in turn caused the other missles to explode
samsoG 3 years ago
This really is one of the most disgusting things I've ever seen. I won't even bother to go into why all of this is a load of crap. But to even insinuate that this guy somehow started this fire is below anything I'd ever see a liberal do.
Just because all of you are cowards and wouldn't last a day on an aircraft carrier without going crying to your mommies or the ACLU for relief is no reason to be jealous of John McCain's bravery.
gtc1961 3 years ago
Let's look at the footage. Where are the noses of the planes pointing during pre-flight? Inward to take up launch position or outward towards the ocean? Take your time.... Of course! Inward. When a plane is started, where would the flame shoot, forward acoss the deck to burn some hapless crew member, or backwards toward the sea. Come on, stand up, bend over and "wet start". Does your exhaust fly out you mouth or out your butt?
Read (gasp!) Sailors to the End By Gregory A. Freeman
AmicusVeritatis 3 years ago
So all of you who watched this and believed it, pat yourself on the back and congratulate yourselves for being this week's idiots. LOL. The video itself clearly shows the E4's parked SIDE BY SIDE, not front to rear like in the narrative, and Zuni rockets were not even carried by E4's, they were carried by F4 Phantoms... So hooray for gullible idiots! :-D
slagman5 3 years ago
What was I thinking, I put the paygrade instead of the aircraft, I meant to say A4, not E4... Ah, it doesn't matter, that mistake still doesn't make me as dumb as the people who believed this crap...
slagman5 3 years ago
I was an E-5!!!
Agree totally with what you said. I swear there are so many morons out there that will believe anything.
gtc1961 3 years ago
LMAO, shut up man, I was an E-4, maybe that's why I said that, lol. Don't know what came over me, what a stupid mistake, haha. But yah, not as dumb as people who would believe stupid things like this insulting lie...
slagman5 3 years ago
Electing a "war hero" as a president is the worst thing to do. Either you want a politician as a president or a maniac willing to drop bombs on people. If the latter is your choice, you'll soon find out that you will be the people being bombed.
WolYou 3 years ago
WolYou,
Your profile has Austria as your country. Countries like yours and Germany, ignore your past and never learn from your mistakes. I don't believe that Obama is a Hitler, but he can do real damage to America. Maybe you want a weaker Amercia and you don't see anything wrong with Socialism, but a strong America is in Europe's best interest. Because we saved Europe in the past and with the US in a key role in NATO, the EU is safe. With Obama, your oil supply just might get cut off!
caltvater 3 years ago
How true...Europeans, in wanting the US to be marginalized, are only cutting their own throats and giving away the free ride of securitiy we've been footing thr bill for for the past 60 years.
gtc1961 3 years ago
Weird, we've been electing war heroes as presidents as a pretty standard thing in America. Not all of them, but a good number of them. And it looks like it's worked pretty well so far... But I guess we should change our ways because someone in Austria thinks so... I guess we can become a world superpower by appeasing everyone around you and hope they like you enough back to not kill you...
slagman5 3 years ago
Since when does sitting in a jet on the ground for a photo shoot in Texas classify anyone as a 'war hero'? Bush never flew a jet...OR left Texas...the coward!
billtroester 3 years ago
Um, Bush has flown... but it's ok, Clinton dodged the draft and Obama simply never even volunteered to join the military at all. But I guess they are somehow better...
slagman5 3 years ago 2
And not to mention, the Zuni rockets are carried by the F4B Phantoms, not the A4's McCain and his fellow pilots were in...
The maker of this video and the poster (if not the same person) is a complete moron to think people will fall for this idiocy.
slagman5 3 years ago
It's just too bad the missile was fired from ACROSS the flight deck, not from behind the plane. Unfortunately we have people who are politically motivated that would intentionally mislead people instead of delivering the facts. You don't have to agree with anyone's politics, but oppose it for legitimate reasons. You're only lying to yourself if you think lies like this actually matters. But hey, whatever makes you feel better about yourself...
slagman5 3 years ago
Obviously the person who made this video was there when this happened to have inside information on what really happened.... right??
It's too bad he neglected to actually show the video in its entirety.
slagman5 3 years ago
Thats not what happened.Your a fucking duambass.Shit for brains.He was on the back deck waiting to taxi to the catapults.Retard!
bigstovepipe 3 years ago
STOP IT PEOPLE! Stop it! Enough with clandestine allegations involving BOTH sides of this election! VOTE for who you feel will be the proper leader of this country, but for the sake of God, Americans throwing unsubstantiated hate at each other from BOTH sides of the aisle will bring us ALL down. If we allow hate to rule us, then we will ALL lose.
p1lates 3 years ago
Whoever made this video is a moron. A-4Es were started by an external crewman at this point in time (that means the pilot had no control over causing a wet start or not), also, HIS PLANE'S REAR IS OUT OVER WATER. So guess what? NO PLANE BEHIND HIM. The freaking Zuni rocket came from a plane nowhere near his.
TheRightNut 3 years ago
TheRightNut is totally right about this. An A-4 pilot needs help from the ground crew to start the engine. To start the engine, the plane needs an external electric and compressed air supplied by ground support equipment (GSE). During the engine start up, the plane captain is in charge. This is about the only place and time where an elisted can cuss out an office. Many of the pilots that I have worked with, knew better than to piss off the ground crew (or their relief tubes would blow air).
caltvater 3 years ago
I thought people who said McCain started the Forrestal fire were just being satirical. Comparing its absurdity with the absurdity of Obama having ties with terrorist when he was in elementary school.
This should be a lesson; officers who finish at the bottom 2% of their class at the Academy should not be given the keys to an A-4.
cavepilot 3 years ago
cavepilot,
So what is absurd about Bill Ayers bombing activities in the 60's and his association with Obama in the 90's? He has never apologized for what he did. He has served on boards with Obama, he has raised campaign money for Obama and they are doing everything to playdown their friendship. If media would have done their job, instead of ignoring it, people would known about this before the primaries. The fact is that this story about McCain is a lie, Obama's assocaition with Ayers is NOT!
caltvater 3 years ago
We who were paying attention learned all about Ayers in the Primary, and the fact that there is no association at all. No matter how often it is said, it is still a lie, and you are a liar. I would not attempt to use this video to question McCain's judgment, as it just isn't factual enough for me. See how that works?
stillcool 3 years ago
stillcool,
The media did not cover this in the primaries, just like they didn't cover Rezko, Wright and ACORN. AP, CBS, NBC, ABC and CNN did their best to ignore these issues.
caltvater 3 years ago
Noone said he had ties with a terrorist in when he was in elementary school. what what they are saying is he befriended a man who was a known terrorist as an adult. at best it shows a lack of judgement, at worst treasonous.
kdraper2007 3 years ago
John McBush is a dirt bag and a traitor. He was living with his first wife when he filed for a marriage license with a drug addicted whore who stole drugs from a CHARITY. With all her millions she stole from a CHARITY. McBush collaborated with the enemy while a POW. He was seen as unfit to be promoted to the rank of Admiral so he ditched the navy and frustrated every attempt to get the prisoners who were not released back home because they would have outed John Mccain as a TRAITOR AND A NAZI.
kimWSSmith 3 years ago
And you are a complete retard if you beleive McCain started this fire if you actuallt knew anything about the military you would know better!
kyopeiythnfd 3 years ago
I was an aircraft Hydraulics repairman in 1969. I also had to learn about the various propulsion systems consisting of TurboProps and jet engines used on various fixed wing aircraft because that is where the hydraulic system is powered from. "Wet starting" was possible on the turboprops as well. John McBush was a well known "hot dog" who did a lot of stupid things, besides the drunken bar room fights. The fire on the Forestall was the worst, except for his act of TREASON while a POW. I KNOW.
kimWSSmith 3 years ago
Were you on the Forrestal when this fire happened?Probably not. I am not disputing the fact that an A4 can be wet started as I have seen it before what I am disputing is how can a plane on the PORT side of the ship cook off a missle on the STARBORD side of the ship?That is completely impossible.All you are doing is slamming a man that is running for president.let me ask you what about Obama's ties to domestic terrorism?Were you a POW with McCain?I think not!
kyopeiythnfd 3 years ago
I am glad that you never worked on a plane that I have flown on. Stating "I KNOW" when clearly you do not know about how McCain's A-4 and the Zuni-armed F-4 were parked in relation to each other, shows you know nothing about the Navy. Ask any real Sailor, as we have all learned about USS Forrestal.
wichitaOR1 3 years ago
McBush had pumped so much extra JP5 into his engine that fuel was running across the flight deck before he hit the igniter. Burning fuel on the deck is what set the rocket off. The Zuni had a reputation as being unpredictable. I read the "official Navy version". When a high powered Admirals son is involved as John McBush was in an act of criminally negligent homicide: a cover-up is to be expected. I suppose you also have complete faith in the Warren Commission report and "magic Bullet" too?
kimWSSmith 3 years ago
You are so full of crap. The Zuni went off before any fire. A real Sailor would know that.
BTW. I studied the JFK assassination in graduate school. There was no "magic" to the bullet, especially when one considers that Kennedy and Connelly were sitting at differing heights and Connelly was inboard. The Warren Report is more accurate than the internet.
wichitaOR1 3 years ago
I saw a show on the discovery channel- I think. where a professor of ballistics in Austrailia recreated the cercumstances of the Kennedy shooting, & from lee harvey oswalds position relitive to the motorcade, produced the exact same wounds in the ballistics dummies placed as Kennedy & Connoly.
kdraper2007 3 years ago
kimWSSmith,
"Pumped so much extra JP5 into his engine that fuel was running across the flight deck" is the most retarted comment I have heard about this lie. I have over 60 turn ups in the A-6 and it uses the same J52 engines. Waiting too long to hit the igniters would have resulted in an engine fire or a hung start and damaged the engine.
caltvater 3 years ago
you obviously didn't watch the video, you can see the rocket fly in from the side. the A-4's didn't have Zuni's, the Zuni's were used for defense suppression. they were on F-4 phantoms. the phantoms were parked on the edge of the flightdeck faceing inward with their tails over the water. the Zuni was fired by a power surge during startup. the rocket pods were not suppost to be plugged into the aircraft till just before the plane taxied to the catapult.
kdraper2007 3 years ago
kimWSSmith that was the dumbest thing I've read on YouTube in a while, and that is saying quite a bit! A wet start cooking off a Zuni from ACROSS THE BOAT?! Jesus Christ! Just for the record not all Obama supporters are this fucking stupid! Just some of those that post here!
WelcomeToMyDream 3 years ago 2
I continue to be shocked by the lies and smears against an honorable and courageous man's military career, esp. when it's a matter of public record. I assume that they believe that if it's repeated enough it will give it subtle or real credence in voter's minds: The Big Lie technique.
I noticed that a fair number of the text comments are from foreigners. Not surprising. Check out the YouTube videos "Another Obama Supporter","Gaza's Obama Campaign" and "Hamas Endorses Obama"
alogmail 3 years ago
John McBush: Graduated fifth from the bottom of his class of one thousand at Annapolis. He then crashed five planes. Then he started the fire on the forrestal. But since daddy was an admiral he still got to fly. He was disobeying orders when he was shot down. Then he was compelled to lie about his time in the prison camp. And he is a whore for the Bush administration. OBAMA in 08
bartyfarslar 3 years ago
Behold America: this is an Obama supporter. Read his rant, then research McCain yourself. Obama's vaunted netroots: an army of smear merchants.
alogmail 3 years ago
Fire started by a Zuni rocket, not carried by the A-4 sky hawk that McCain piloted. you are a Fool and Obama is dirt bag terrorist lover.
lproth 3 years ago
Fire started by a Zuni rocket, not carried by the A-4 sky hawk that McCain piloted. you are a Fool and Obama is dirt bag terrorist lover.
that is me I love ALL terrorists! I love their beards and their turbans and those really cool vests they wear. I love everything about them I love the way they pray to mecca. i just LOVE terrorists.
bartyfarslar 3 years ago
Various configurations of Zuni rockets have been developed. On 1 May 1967 during a sortie against North Vietnams MiG airfield at Kep, Lieutenant Commander Theodore R. Swartz shot down a Soviet-built MiG-17 with air-to-ground Zuni rockets. This was the only MiG aircraft to be downed by an A-4 Skyhawk during the Vietnam conflict.[2] Lieutenant Commander Swartz received the Silver Star for his action
read it an weep fucktard.
bartyfarslar 3 years ago
Likely source of the Zuni was F-4 No. 110. You read it and weep. from the offical report. Mccain bailed out of a burning aircraft and returned to help with 500LB bombs going off. Have you done any thing on this level? before you ask, yes I have!
lproth 3 years ago
Obama has ties with domestic terrorism.So Hell yeah let's let him run the country.He would do a better job than that bum Clinton and his husband Hillary!!!
kyopeiythnfd 3 years ago
Domestic Terrorism? Obama knows you? It is really okay for you to say that you can't stand Obama. It is silly for you to lie about your reasons though. I know you must think that people actually believe what you are saying, but that is delusional.
stillcool 3 years ago
As you think people believe what you are saying.My self personally could give a rats ass less what happens in this election.I cannot choose the lesser of two evils.Noone should believe the hype of the criminal liberal media.But I will pose this question to you What about Obama and Acorn?
kyopeiythnfd 3 years ago
Oh I see.Ayers was not a domestic terrorist even though he admitted the bombings ok.So what does that make him?I guess I'm confused.And he didn't raise money for Obama's campaign?I see ayers must be supporting McCain.Thanks for straightening that out for me Oh enlightened one.
kyopeiythnfd 3 years ago
Don't forget, Obama announced his run for Illanois senate in Ayres living room. I'm pretty sure he was in tight with ayes.
kdraper2007 3 years ago
Do any of you people think for yourselves or do you eat anything right wing extremists spoon feed you???
arkham1999 3 years ago
Christ, you sound like the NY times. Unlike you, snotty liberals, we think logically.
gtc1961 3 years ago
The video shows McCain's plane with the tail pointed out to sea. But even if the F-4 was behind McCain and he did wet start his A-4, it would not have started the fire. The Zuni rocket pod is about 2 1/2 feet off the deck and the A-4 tailpipe is almost 6 feet from the deck. At start up, the engine's RPM is still low and a fire ball would only travel about 20 feet and rise upward. So there is no way that McCain could have started the fire.
caltvater 3 years ago 3
I was on the Forrestal, parked next to McCain when the 1967 fire broke out. This video is completely false and implausable! Wet start? McCain's fault? Impossible...never happened. After years of flying it, I don't even know how you would go about forcing the A-4 engine into a "wet start." To begin with a "wet start" is just as it says....no ignition! No fire! Concerning his leaving the boat, John asked the skipper, Fred Dunning, for leave the next day and it was granted....no big deal.
Pennyskin 3 years ago 4
"I was on the Forrestal, parked next to McCain when the 1967 fire broke out."
Sure you were.
tonewheel 3 years ago
My name is Dave Dollarhide. I'm 66 years old and was in VA-46 with McCain. That day, he was flying with one of our wing pilots, Herb Hope. I was the #2 guy in a separate flight of four and the only one to live that day. No skin off my nose if you don't believe me, tonewheel...been there, done that.
Pennyskin 3 years ago
Thanks for lending some credibilty to this Dave. You forgot to mention McCain immediately volunteered to serve on the Oriskany right away even though he could've gone to shore duty.
Thanks for your service....I was on the Independence and Enterprise!
gtc1961 3 years ago
'Press On' shipmate. USS Constellation. Westpac '81-'82. Iran hostage crisis. 110 days in the Persian Gulf and NEVER got to fire a shot. Thanks to the peanut farmer we had for a President. *salutes you for your service*
billtroester 3 years ago
Since you don't believe him, checkout the video by VibraciaX on the Forrestal at /watch?v=Q6l1rwQJjYg. This is the first of 5 videos on the Forrestal fire and producer of the video interviewed Dave. Also, check out the investigation report and you will see his name.
caltvater 3 years ago
google this and u will find that it is true story that happend in 1967.
makaveli1212 3 years ago
Go fuck yourself asswipe.
Sparkanoid1 3 years ago
Antisemetic conspiracies? who brought that in? Sheesh what a republican thing to do...if you do not have a reasonable and logical to say, muddy the waters with BS.
I said what i has read..I also said I was not sure. You are the one that is so definate on what happened 40 years ago. Were you around then..I was. Have you seen the new film of Mccain that surfaced in Switzerland?
terragazelle 3 years ago
If you were an officer you would also be a gentleman. Calling people names does not prove them wrong, only you ignorant.
terragazelle 3 years ago
Whoever you support is secondary to the unbelievability of this video subject matter. Modern jet aircraft do not line up "nose to tail" as they did in WW2. Jet exhaust makes this impractical. Once aircraft are arranged to be started, their engines face to sea. That is a simple fact.
a6m999 3 years ago 2
This video propaganda would make Goebbels proud. If you study the line up of the aircraft prior to the accident, the F-4 that launched the Zuni ACROSS the deck was on the starboard (island) side of the rear of the carrier, with her engines facing to sea (starboard), over the edge of the deck. The A-4 Skyhawks were on the port side of the rear of the carrier, with their engines facing to sea (port). The Phantom would have had to have been PARKED IN THE OCEAN to have been behind the pair of A4s
a6m999 3 years ago
This vid is not even funny. Why does McCain scare you folks so badly that you need to put together trash like this? McCain's airplane was hit by a missle that flew across the flight deck, inadvertently 'cooked off' by a peice of support equipment, and hit McCain's external fuel tank. He hadn't even started his jet when the accident occured, and certainly had nothing to do with it. He jumped from his airplane into a lake of burning fuel just before the first bomb went off. Lets see you do that.
Myuzishin 3 years ago 2
Since when does being in the military qualify you to run the most powerful counrty in the world? And is that why you voted for Bush idiot? because of his Military record? You're a fool and it's scum like youwho has brought this country down and it's economy to it's knees.
adrock666666 3 years ago
Another keyboard warrior huh! You're wrong again he was shipped out the following day the only persn to be transfered out. I know it is pointlessto argue with a simpleton like yourself but this country was found by revolutionist not followers like you and your Nazi elite butt buddy who you obviously have a crush on McCAin. You sir are a sad idiotic waste of humanity. You're 40 and you go online to insult people pretty sad. Get a job and pay your child support!
adrock666666 3 years ago
adrock you not only insult the dead sailors but the Beastie Boys when you post such ignorant BS. McCain is old and foolish, and Palin is a nut, but you help them get elected by making some people think that all liberals are stupid. You do seem to be on the internet right? You could actually look the facts up instead of typing total nonsense.
WelcomeToMyDream 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
I'm an idiot? I didn't kill 167 SAILORS the idiot your dumbass is voting for did! Anyone who votes for McCain is truly stupid.A better than a 1 in 3 chance he won't even survive his term which would put Palin in the pres spot = palin a self proclaimed "hockey mom"and wants to know "what does the vp actually do all day?"thats scarry!You must be a fucking moron I feel sorry for any childeren you might have.Keep voting those rep into the white house and watch them flush your country down the drain
adrock666666 3 years ago
Explain why his daddy shipped him outta there so fast (the following day)? Hmm Maybe becasue everyone wanted to kill him! Ahahah he's a n idiot.
adrock666666 3 years ago
I've also learned that there is usually more than one cause of any accident. Many factors are always in play. For example: The rusty WWII suruplus 1000 lbs. bombs, improper wiring on the launch wiring, the safety pins removed, etc. IF McCain did wet-start his plane, it would not have been the sole factor in the incident, or even a major one. The Enterprise has several similar misfires of the same rockets. McCain MAY be partially to blame, as many people were, but not the sole instigator.
youngluvbirds 3 years ago
I've been a firefighter EMT/Paramedic for over 12 years. If I've learned anything it's this: There is story A, story B, and then there's the truth. 2 or more people can see the same incident at the same time and have 2 completely different stories of how it happened. McCain may have been a hot-shot. Most military pilots were. Ever see "The Right Stuff?" That's not the issue. Argue either politics or the cause of the disaster. Trying to mix the two is like combining oil and water.
youngluvbirds 3 years ago
It's a fact that he did wet start his A-4 E which caused the missle to fire into a skyhawk. He was taking outta the aircraft carrier the next day (the only man to be moved mind you ) becasue the remaining surviving soldiers wanted to kill him. It's all quite true and you might even see the survivors come forward during this election.
adrock666666 3 years ago
Fine. McCain was a good pilot. Who cares? Why waste all this time trying to protect this guy's reputation like it was your own? Is this hero worship or something? Geez! What really matters is that this guy would make a lousy president in 2008, no matter what the fuck he did in 1968. It's irrelevant. Get a life of your own.
politicoochie09 3 years ago
politico if it doesn't matter what McCain did in 1968 then why lie about it? Why post total BS? Do you want to help elect the crazy old fart by making Obama supporters look like idiots? If so you are doing a great job!
WelcomeToMyDream 3 years ago
MCCain's "wet start" had nothing to do with this fire. It was an F-4 Phantom that fired the rocket, not an A-4. Funny, the whole thing was caught on the landing camera system and the deck camera and it shows what REALLY happened. McCain had nothing to do with it. This is all altered propoganda. It's an insult to John McCain (politics aside) and the brave men who fought this fire and those who died because of it. Talk about twisting the facts.
et1171 3 years ago 2
then LCDR McCain DID NOT immediately transfer to the Oriskany. the Oriskany had just arrived "on the line"
He continued to help jettison ordanance through that day.
It was after his squadron returned to Cecil field in jacksonville to reconstitute, that he decided to transfer to VA-143 then aboard the Oriskany.
He arrived aboard on 30 Sept 1967.
Those are the facts folks.
sidishus 3 years ago 3
What a bunch of horse shit.
Praetorian27 3 years ago 3
Jesus Tapdancing Christ. Look, I have no love for the Republicans by any stretch, and there's no way that I'm voting for another Republican president this year -- but this is slander, plain and simple. Appalling. If I didn't have my own reasons not to do so, I'd vote for McCain this year just to spite people like you.
quantas878 3 years ago 3
UMBRAnoforn, you are a complete pile of dogshit. 130+ men died, McCain nearly died, and you use it to push your politcs.
DesScorp 3 years ago 2
I lost a friend on the Forrestal whose name was Russel Grazier. His favorite saying was: "When in danger when in doubt run in circles, scream and shout." I didn't Russ had died until some time in August. He was a great guy, a cycle trip leader for American Youth Hostels who saw three boys and five girls through five countries by bicycle no problem greater than a few flat tires. We called him our "Fearless Leader." How do you like the VP pick, Bullwinkle J Moose?
When in danger when in doubt...
yogione 3 years ago
typo: (I didn't know Russ had died until August)
yogione 3 years ago
John McCain's plane was on the side of the carrier waiting to be rolled onto the catapult. No pilot, even hot shots, would start their engines (much less wet-start) while on one side pointing to the other side. It's unsafe, not to mention-THERE'S NO RUNWAY! The idea that McCain would "wet-start" his engine is crazy and only the foolish minded could believe such lie. It's amazing how anger and the need to blame someone can affect one's judgment and override logic and common (or uncommon) sense!
youngluvbirds 3 years ago
Yes, it's foolish, but you have to remember, this is a guy who is a well-known "hot dogger", has been involved in 5 crashes of very expensive airplanes (which says something about his ability as a pilot), AND, he gradutated nearly LAST at the Naval Academy. (My guess is, he wouldn't have graduated at all, if he hadn't been a son of an admiral.) So, let's put it all together: It's very, very possible that this foolish person (John McCain) could, and would actually wet start his plane there.
politicoochie09 3 years ago
politco. There was no "wet start".
I knew people aboard that day. They we readying an aircraft to launch on the starboard side and SAW the Zuni flash across the deck into the A-4s on the port side.
They related the story LONG before McCain was famous.
Thats the facts. But I am certain you will continue to insult the 134 souls who died that day with cheap little lies.
As for the crashes, in the late 1950s' NAval Aviation was suffereing an average of a Class A accident A DAY.
sidishus 3 years ago 2
Let say you're right about McCain's actions that day and about the downing of all those planes. Seriously, McCain is NOT a worthwhile candidate for a myriad of other reasons: He flip-flops more than Kerry could ever imagine, he's doddering and old with an out of control temper, his mind has been damaged from Vietnamese/Soviet style torture, and for all we know, he's a REAL Manchurian Candidate. Plenty of evidence to show that brainwashing really does work. Maybe that's what's happened to you?
politicoochie09 3 years ago
politico, if you choose to criticize McCain about his politics, have at it.
As for the Manchurian Candidate thing. Which candidate has no problem with his supporters OPENLY dsiplaying communist symbols, and whose very campaign posters are obviously inspired by 1930's Soviet Realism?
Sure ain't McCain.
sidishus 3 years ago
A REAL communist, or political person with a secret agenda, would not openly display anything of the sort. In fact, they would likely do just the opposite. Didn't Republicans (Bush & Co.) say in 2000 that they wanted LESS government, LESS taxation, a balanced budget, a strong economy, low gas prices, peace in the Middle East, etc.? But, hey, look what we got instead. You can bet that whatever they say, their true agenda is just the opposite. You have to look at facts not symbols.
politicoochie09 3 years ago
Looking at facts...
Seems that few McCain haters want to do that in regards to the Forrestal fire.
He didn't somehow start it.
There was no "dark" conspiracy.
Those are the FACTS.
sidishus 3 years ago 3
Even if he had the only recipient of the resulting fireball would have been the air over the ocean behind his plane. My question to you is, if you actually believe this nonsense, when was your last Elvis sighting?
NIBBLEHEAD 3 years ago 3
McCain has lost it, Palin is just plain scary, but you (politico) are ignorant and that is just how the powers-that-be want you! Tool!
WelcomeToMyDream 3 years ago
First, the zuni came from the other side of the deck, but regardless, not even the most reckless pilot would dump gas on the burner cans, wait, then add spark to ingite all that gas to get a big bang on the tail. All that with live bombs hanging from the wing pylons.
Mr. Umbranoform, McCain flew for the Navy, I flew for the Air Force, and you're a moron.
lunaneo1007 3 years ago 2
John, and I quote, "Bomb bomb bomb bomb Iran" McCain is an epsilon semi moron that got fast tracked into the airfarce on his daddy's coat tails and has been screwing up ever since.
He will make a great puppetdent, senile and easy to control.
SlaveStorm 3 years ago
This is a load of bullshit. This anybody believe this guy. He has no idea how an aircraft even works. Get you facts together before you make an statement like this.
scopioairceert 3 years ago 2
That's plain bullshit. The F-4s were sitting on the starboard side, the A-4s on the port side, all planes with their respective engines pointing seaward.
If I were McCain I'd sue you for slander ...
OradourSurGlane 3 years ago 4
Lt Mcain did not wet start his aircraft! Naval Avaiators are not trained to do that. Thats Bullshit left winger. I was ordnance! stray voltage set the rocket off from across the deck.... Get it straight before you start kickin shit Maggot.
0208gp 3 years ago 4
Who every believes this video is a moron! This is almost as good as the story that McCain was using his afterburner, but the A-4 doesn't have one.
caltvater 3 years ago 2
This video shows clearly that conspiracy theory are made up of people who do not know anything. A wet start did not cause the missile to go off but a plane had fire up it's engines and was facing the missiles. Second of all the missiles pins were taken out which is wrong protocol for Aircraft Carriers they are to be removed at the cat not before. John McCain had nothing to do with the fire. I served 6 years on board USS Saratoga & Kitty Hawk. I have seen the video of the fire 20 times.
kevinnavyguy1982 3 years ago 5
This video is the height of stupidity and liberal dumb-fuck-ness. Why don't you idiots ask this retired Naval Aviation Chief Petty Officer about the Forrestal disaster?
animefareast 3 years ago 4
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Mr. Conservative Dumb-fuck-ness gets all hot and bothered when McCain's military record is question, but I wonder if he had any problem with the Swift Boat Veterans for "Truth," or the fact that the president he voted for got his daddy to keep him in the U.S. and he didn't even bother to show up for that, or that the VP he voted for had "other priorities" during Viet Nam. Repubs are going to play this card for all it's worth because McCain was one of the few on their side who actually served.
KatManDude 3 years ago
People in the USA need to wake up once and for all and realize how evil has rooted it's way into the political body and the media. We will all end as slaves if not dead unless we stand against the tyranny.
werebear1 3 years ago
The investigation concluded it was just an accident and no one was at fault. Then he crashed the plane over Vietnam. I guess, McCain is just not a lucky guy.
TrueNovice 3 years ago
I heard allegations that McCain did a "wet start" and that caused the plane behind him to catch on fire. Also, after the incident, McCain was reportedly the only person tranferred off the ship. Maybe, too many people knew that he was the cause of the fire. I don't care about either candidates since both are under the control of the CFR and will give us the same as what we already have. But the truth should be told nevertheless.
power2theq 3 years ago
That is not what happened at all. EVERYONE concluded that a zuni rocket misfired, from an F4 Phantom on the OTHER side of the deck. the rocket hit either McCain or White's aircraft, parked directly across the deck from how the F4's nose was angled.
A "wet start" did not cause the plane behind him to catch fire since there was no plane behind him. they're parked side by side, diagnally as usual. The tail of McCain's aircraft, like the others was pointed at the open ocean to avoid this.
USCFlash 3 years ago 8
You're a despicable liar UMBRA. What you state is completely & totally incorrect. Your statement at the 25 second mark is slanderous. how exactly could McCain's engine have caused an F4 Phantom behind him's rockets to go off? McCain was on the port side & every plane on the aft port side & the direct aft were A4 Skyhawks. There were 7 F4 Phantom's on the aft section. All were on the starboard aft. the zuni rocket came from a starboard F4 towards the port side A4's. do some research scumbag.
USCFlash 3 years ago 10
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Was there an investigation? If there was an investigation, what did it conclude? If there was no investigation,what role did the McCain's big daddy, play in preventing it?
TrueNovice 3 years ago
It is one thing to dislike a man and his politics. It is quite another to blame him without any proof whatsoever and in fact an utter lie, for the death of 134 US sailors.
In fact it is pathetic and despicable
spare me the ignorance.
USCFlash 3 years ago 6
Of course there was an investigation
just go to wikipedia and type in Forrestal Fire or Forrestal Investigation
all you need to is look at the diagram. McCain and White's A4's were on the port side. (416 and 405)Everyone knows that a zuni rocket misfired from an F-4 Phantom on the starboard side. Look at F4 Phantom 110 on the starboard side. Where is it pointing directly at? directly at the two A4's on the port side.
USCFlash 3 years ago 8
wet start
wcarlpdrysdale 3 years ago